Oregon Standoff: A Terrible Plan That We Might Be Stuck With
Submitted by Brandon Smith via Alt-Market.com,
Well, there is whole host of things wrong with this situation, which is why I never supported or endorsed "Operation Hammond Freedom" to begin with. There is a lot of misinformation out there at this time on the debacle in Oregon, and certain alternative media outlets seem to be conveniently overlooking particular facts. I suspect that some people in the movement simply want to "kick it off" (a second American revolution), and they don't care if the circumstances of that kick-off are favorable or terrible (I realize "favorable" is relative, but starting this fight from a much stronger position is more than possible). This attitude was prevalent among some at Bundy Ranch, as certain groups refused to dig in positions for a real fight in the hopes that they would be "martyred" for the cause. This, in case you were wondering, is idiotic.
Oath Keepers including founder Stewart Rhodes was the only organization to predict how Ammon Bundy's vague calls for action on the part of the Hammond Family would actually play out. They received a lot of ignorant attacks in response, and yet, they were absolutely right.
Ammon, apparently trying to recreate what cannot be recreated, is looking for another Bundy Ranch stand-off. First, I would point out that such events can't be artificially fabricated. They have to happen in an organic way. Whenever a group of people attempt to engineer a revolutionary moment, even if their underlying motivations are righteous, it usually ends up kicking them in the ass (Fort Sumter is a good example). Ammon's wingmen appear to be Blaine Cooper aka Stanley Blaine Hicks (a convicted felon), and Ryan Payne (who claimed falsely during the Bundy Ranch standoff that he was an Army Ranger and who worked diligently to cause divisions between involved parties on the ground). This was the first sign that nothing good was going to come from the Hammond protest.
I have watched extensive video from the event in Oregon and am privy to accounts from participants. From the information at my disposal, it would appear that Ammon and team did NOT make clear their intentions to occupy the federal wildlife refuge building except to a select few, inviting protesters to "take a hard stand" without revealing what this would entail until they were already in the middle of it all. OPSEC? No, I think not. Obviously the goal was to lure as many protesters to Oregon as possible to the event in the hopes that they would jump on board with the stand-off plan once they were more personally involved. Numerous protesters were rightly enraged once they discovered the ultimate motives behind the event.
The plan is basically this - use the Hammond family as a vehicle (yes, this is what is being done) even though they did not want any kind of standoff to result and specifically refused aid. Occupy federally owned buildings which have little to do with anything of importance and have no symbolic power as did Bundy Ranch. Elicit federal response. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Bundy Ranch had many positive elements going for it, which is why it ended the way it did. This standoff has none of the same elements. I suppose one could ask, though, why do I care?
It's true, these people have every right to make positively naive strategic errors and I don't have to participate directly if I don't like it. The problem, however, is that Ammon and friends have decided they want to be the "tip of the spear" (his words, not mine). I do not think they understand what this means, or they don't care. What it means is, even though I think the entire Oregon plan is ill conceived; literally the WORST possible way to launch a fight against federal corruption, if the federal government moves in a heavy handed manner to kill these people, I and many others will have to fight as well by default when a FAR better tactical and social position could have been achieved. My conscience simply will not allow the rationalization of the deaths of liberty minded people even if their stupidity brought about the circumstances. And frankly, that pisses me off.
As a student of asymmetrics, I understand that choosing the time, place and circumstances is 95% of the battle ahead against an advanced opponent. More organization is needed. More preparedness. More training. More public awareness. The Oregon standoff could steal away what little time we had left.
The Oregon standoff potentially forces the hand of the Liberty Movement, not the hand of corrupt government - the exact reverse of what should be happening.
Mike Vanderboegh has outlined similar thoughts expertly in this article. Everything he has written is exactly what was going through my own mind when I heard of the happenings in Oregon. Ammon Bundy and companions are not the tip of the spear. Not even close. What I do fear is that they are cannon fodder beckoning a nationwide government crackdown to which I and others will then be forced to personally respond to with equal f*cking measure. And all of this on the worst possible terms and at a very inconvenient time (executive actions on gun control mere weeks from now).
And here's the best part; those of us who remain critical of the clinically retarded maneuver being executed here are going to be called cowards and "keyboard warriors"; it's a given. We are all ready to fight for the future of this country, we have been training diligently for it and helping many others along the way. But, because we do not support two dimensional planning there are those that will say - "Now we find out who the real patriots are!"
Against stupid plan = coward against freedom and action. Just watch.
If the Feds use brutality to handle the Oregon conflict, it will indeed "kick-off". There wont be any way to stop it. Just don't get too excited, folks. This is no Lexington or Concord. I really don't know what to call it...
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the land in Oregon is twice the size of Rhode Island.. No worries the HSA FBI CIA IRS EPA were funded by strategic petroleum reserves.... Not a problem BP had SCOTUS stall deepwater and now own ARCO Alaska drilling rights on federal land... asymmetrics the war is the total loss of the Lame Stream Media Gobbles narrative.
Oh yea didn't we get Alaska because Russia was broke from Crimean war? How much do you think Putin would pay for Washington DC? Heck the King has spoken land and guns THERE ALL MINE......
USSA USSA USSA
I hope you guys get more support than George Pataki. Even then there is zero support for your wild dreams of insurrection outside of hicksville. You don't even have support in Oregon. The public opinion runs strongly against you and people are actually demanding that the government do something about those terrorists in wilderness trespassing and stealing land that belongs to all Americans.
It's a silly and stupid proposition. Go home!
Hicksville is in the 'flyover states', right? As in where every bit of food, energy and 2x4's come from? yeah those guys.. sheesh...
Most food in the US is grown in California.
The flyover and southern states just sell gmo corn for ethanol subsidies.
Rigghtttttt. they don't put soy, corn and wheat in any of our food. Good point there. I forgot how much in the way of fresh greens and almonds we eat as a nation. Oh,,... all that meat, too. But what do I know. I'm just around the headquarters of Walmart and Tyson... out here in hicksville.
I forgot.
You only eat gmo corn, soy, wheat, and milk.
The rest of the country, nevertheless, gets its food from California.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2013/07/calif...
The food comes from California and the 2X4's come from Canada.
really? think of a big mac. how much of that do you think is grown in cali? and no douche, i grow my own food. like most of us, we only sell the poison to city idiots.
Tylers have it wrong. Most ranching in the west is owned by private equity groups. Has nothing to do with the independent cowboy mystique that everyone is so enamored with. They hire cow hands and operations managers, it helps promote the image. They use that image to promote private ownership of public land by the actions of this joker, Bundy and even the douchebag Kit Laney. While some family operations might get a few crumbs the majority of public land will wind up in the hands of the wealthy few. These guys are useful idiots for a more sinister agenda.
Is this about some grass burned on ranch or arbitrary .gov? This is way bigger than the issue it started over. People are challenging arbitrary power in a very serious way. Just like with the Wall Street protesters numerous causes will converge.
To me, it's about burning less ground than is up to the stop sign up the road from me and being charged as a terrorist. Going to prison after nobody got hurt, probably not even a rabbit..... then being sent back because the FEDS don't like you.
The fact that yet another one of these public figures claiming to be an authority is screaming how much of a bad idea this is... is making me start to think this might be something that gains traction.
Here's something for you to ponder. The Washington Post has an article out discussing how they cannot call these men 'terrorists' because they don't seem to have the intention to terrorize nor harm anyone.
YET... the Hammonds were charged under '96 FEDERAL TERRORISM LAWS. THIS IS WHY they are being ordered BACK to prison after they were let out and served their time. That unto itself is the heart of the issue. I care not what they did. They are not fucking terrorists. Nobody in the area involved could fathom these two men being terrorists. Not even the judge that STILL sent them to prison. Does that mean if I burn off my woods and the fire gets into the county right of way/ditch I can be charged with terrorism?!
The Saudi Arabians are doing the same thing. Call folks terrorists and behead them.. start WWIII.
Nobody can even define what a terrorist is, anymore.
I digress. The fact that these talking heads [even Alex Jones showed his true colors on the subject] are saying what a horrible idea this is and that every one should just calm down and let the proper political processes take its course is proof, at least in my mind, that things might be starting to move. HAS THERE EVER, IN THE COURSE OF HUMAN HISTORY, BEEN A CASE WHERE THE TYRANICAL POWER IN CHARGE JUST SAID, "OKAY, MY BAD. MAYBE I SHOULD JUST RETIRE, RELENT CONTROL AND LET YOU GUYS COME UP WITH A BETTER FORM OF ENSLAVING YOU'? The answer is never and it is never peaceful. Even Ghandi's India wasn't a cake walk.
The Federal Goverment has only one viable option in this mess. It's not a very good one. Let these guys hang out in some of the most harsh conditions in the States and hope everyone forgets they are up there. They are not pussy cats up there. There will be lots of blood if the FBI tries to go in and be billy bad ass.. and it will make martyrs out of them.
The downside to that option is that the area will become a massive magnet to likeminded 'terrorists'. Seige would be the better option. I'd imagine that is what those Bundy boys were thinking. Open up an enclave in the big sky country.
"HAS THERE EVER, IN THE COURSE OF HUMAN HISTORY, BEEN A CASE WHERE THE TYRANICAL POWER IN CHARGE JUST SAID, "OKAY, MY BAD. MAYBE I SHOULD JUST RETIRE, RELENT CONTROL AND LET YOU GUYS COME UP WITH A BETTER FORM OF ENSLAVING YOU'?
Nope.
But liberals don't deal in reality.
I'll take the End of the American Revolution for $1000, Alex!
Hey, the daily double!
I am sorry? I dagree with the aticle , at what point do u take a stand ? Like this this abuse of goverment power , extortion. and cover up is to be overlooked? Because dc is planning another gun ! I think its obvious washington is going to do whatever they want! OBAMACARE,PATRIOT ACT, 9 one 1 AND u need to write letters?????????? Yes will just stay out of there way when they come for your family?
No you wil run like hell and go underground. We're not going to beat them head to head. There's just on chance of it.
Counterintelligence hard at work. What this article means is that we must be patient, because the regime is rapidly losing its legitimacy and becoming weaker; if we act early, it'll give the regime all the authority it needs to embark upon a violent crackdown. Let them make the first mistake in judgment, and the peoples' rage to ignite spontaneously.
That strike thing puts pressure on the system. This plays right into the hands of tptb. Stunt after stunt for months now?
Good thing Americans are a cool lot. Not the rash or panicky sort.
If a bunch of cowboys get killed up there and any video gets out that may be your "violent crackdown" moment. I don't think we are going to have a choice when this goes down.
This story is a trial balloon. The government is floating this story with two complete opposing views to see which side gets the simple majority from the unwashed masses. This is what our government will do before it will turn its military hardware on its own people. If the .gov gets a simple majority swayed to kill , well then
boom, they will kill using our military might, on American soil
Is this the same military that has taken 14 years to defeat a land of rocks and lizards? Perhaps the same military that has not won a war in 70 years?
What war did the US ever win?
The russians carried us in Europe and China helped in WW2.
The US has never won a war since 1865.
I was talking to a 26 yr old, son of a friend last week. He got out of the Marines Recently . He is advising me on firearms. We got to the subject of Obama disarming people, and he said ALL the marines he knew, said in absolute terms, they would never obey that order. Was nice to hear.
Of all the branches of the US military, I have the most faith in the marine corp to do the right thing.
That's not what Kay Briggs would tell you about them!
Careful. The American Spring is wound tighter than its ever been since 1913.
Fuckin' hell, SOMETHING has to kick this shit off! We've been on the precipice for far too long already! Oh, let's all pray to God that he or a savior President will save us from our own cowardice, but when the weather is better. The shit storm IS ON, if ya haven't noticed!
WTF is a more optimal situation?
We gonna wait for the 85% sheeple to magically wake up?
Maybe start a newsletter for the lead up?
Wait for EVERYTHING to collapse first?
Wait for EVERYONE to be jobless so they'll have more time for the big, unified revolution?
Keep waiting. Enjoy the ass raping in the meantime.
An outside study uncovered by the ranchers attorney showed that all wildlife was much more common on Ranch property. The ranchers were good stewards of their land. Things like legal back-burning are important to fire supression and obviously, wildlife. These Ranchers were victims of violent terrorist acts by the BLM. (prison?). May justice be done here. I won't be the judge of how someone goes about obtaining it.
Siiggghhh... has it occured to you that there may not be an answer? That maybe our only near term hope is to keep our heads down, refuse to contribute our labor to the system, and wait for a better time? I don't think the deep state is defeatable right now. it may not be in our lifetimes.
sounds like you've never been in a street brawl.
I've been in a few fights... and know enough not to involve myself in a fight i KNOW that I will lose.
That is a good question. Is a good time right after they start the drafting all able bodied males and females up to the age of 50 to go the meat grinder against Russia and China (yes they are going to draft females too it's even been in the MSM)? Do we think our country will be armed when we come back? Do we think those old people and little kids will be okay left behind with these monsters? Will the beginning of a revolt be televised when the ramp up to WWIII begins?
Nobody wants this to happen but it's going to at some point. There are a hundred million people out of the workforce in this country. We maybe comfortable enough to say that people should keep cool heads but those people are going to start to disagree especially when their gun rights are being leglislated away by a kings decree and the last of their grocery money just went to Obama Care.
Don't forget that they passed a law that they can detain any American for having the sniffles after that Ebola debacle. We had a general go on national television and say that they should detain people who are against WWIII. Don't get too comforable because this shit is coming.
you're up against these guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOXZjDIXV1A
Black inner city lives matter until they don't. I've said this for years. If you piss off those that feed you, you cut your own throat. We are not Thatcher's coal miners that can be starved into compliance. We can outlast the cities.
Yikes, Omega! That vid scared me, but made me laugh too.
The federal government uses the " created " narrative " terrorists " as sympathy control propaganda...
Those people are not terrorists they are " AMERICANS " the terrorists are in DC, they're called Lawyers as lawmakers.
We were warned and failed to take notice..
Yes, you can label those with no stakes in land holdings, commerce or community, terrorists. i.e. unemployed disenfranchised younger folks. It morphs into an entitely different beast when you start to piss off families that have lived on farms for generations and are very productive members of society. What you have here is a conflict between those whom control the resources and thoes whome want to control them.
Probably why they want to dispossess everyone in the first place.
The Boston Massacre wasn't cut, and dried either, but it was a catalyst.
Teenagers throwing snowballs and rocks if I recall, not exactly Patrick Henry in the forefront there
Unfortunate, but NOT Un- Expected.<
That's my land, not theirs. I hope the feds blow away these land grabbing welfare farmer queens.
"Tip of the spear"....hmm, where have I heard that before?
Oh yeah, CoIntelPro agent Alex Jones uses that phrase to describe himself all the time. (Search Alex Jones Provacateur)
Pure coincidence of course...
It's only your land if you are a good steward of it. Burning some off is in line with that belief. Certainly not worthy of being charged with fucking terrorism and facing a minimum federal prison sentence.
Alex Jones is an asshat looking to push his 'manly pills'. It should tell you something when he too is telling these guys to just back down. Just ask yourself this, Qui Bono? Why on earth would these guys be doing this? risking this? they're not looking to make money. Then look at all the web sites like this, Alex Jones, the douche that wrote this article or anyone else that wants you to 'subscribe'. Some men are motivated by profit, some by conviction. After seeing one of the older farmers from Nevada on Ammon Bundy's facefart page video...... these guys are in it for conviction.
One doesn't make money by 'occupying' a vending machine shed in one of the most harsh areas of the nation in early January to make money by WRITING about it. I'd give them the benefit of at least listening to what they had to say before any of these assholes trying to make money commenting about it.
A better plan is to sit around lisping over coffee
while waiting for the Super Friends to show up
and save us from our inexperience and cowardice.
Hurray, Super Friends!!
That part
Ya know, be it ever so humble as to gather an opinion after hearing what many, not just a few, but what many voices say. Then mind you, perchance it might be able to come to a conclusion about something.
As was foretold, and as everybody knows, between bail-in documents, crashing bank ledgers, and woar being fomented in every way the satanic forces of evil can conspire to do, there IS going to be a huge up-tick in false flag events and now, al-CIA-Duh is pumping up the chaos on many fronts to cover up the purposely planned world economic overstreach. That ginormous rubber band like a whack-a-roo boom-a-rang is about to come back to slaps them peckerwoods upside the heads like nobody's business. Yep!
Umm huh. Shore gonna be some reckoning to pay when the balloon does go up and these crazy babylonians fire the first shots. Oh sure, the sheeple soon to be hordes of hungry with no other before them, other than their stomachs, may ignore the trumped up false flags for being what they are at first, but the the vision is they will all come eventually out of the wood work like fire ants and strike down all things babylon. Sure will be a spectacle if it happens the continued planned way of babylon.
Sunday Evening background music.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hHEyXV-ruM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6q63tPFPes
Hope the gov kills every single one of these whute terrorists.
Gawd, another federal employee!
If the Feds use brutality to handle the Oregon conflict, it will indeed "kick-off". There wont be any way to stop it.
What makes anyone think "The Feds" will survive the supposed planned crackdown? People always assume that the so called authority will always survive. When "authority" is deemed illegitimate, such iron fisted moves always prove fatal to the authoritarian structure. We don't need them, they need us. Withdraw consent.