Oregon Standoff: A Terrible Plan That We Might Be Stuck With
Submitted by Brandon Smith via Alt-Market.com,
Well, there is whole host of things wrong with this situation, which is why I never supported or endorsed "Operation Hammond Freedom" to begin with. There is a lot of misinformation out there at this time on the debacle in Oregon, and certain alternative media outlets seem to be conveniently overlooking particular facts. I suspect that some people in the movement simply want to "kick it off" (a second American revolution), and they don't care if the circumstances of that kick-off are favorable or terrible (I realize "favorable" is relative, but starting this fight from a much stronger position is more than possible). This attitude was prevalent among some at Bundy Ranch, as certain groups refused to dig in positions for a real fight in the hopes that they would be "martyred" for the cause. This, in case you were wondering, is idiotic.
Oath Keepers including founder Stewart Rhodes was the only organization to predict how Ammon Bundy's vague calls for action on the part of the Hammond Family would actually play out. They received a lot of ignorant attacks in response, and yet, they were absolutely right.
Ammon, apparently trying to recreate what cannot be recreated, is looking for another Bundy Ranch stand-off. First, I would point out that such events can't be artificially fabricated. They have to happen in an organic way. Whenever a group of people attempt to engineer a revolutionary moment, even if their underlying motivations are righteous, it usually ends up kicking them in the ass (Fort Sumter is a good example). Ammon's wingmen appear to be Blaine Cooper aka Stanley Blaine Hicks (a convicted felon), and Ryan Payne (who claimed falsely during the Bundy Ranch standoff that he was an Army Ranger and who worked diligently to cause divisions between involved parties on the ground). This was the first sign that nothing good was going to come from the Hammond protest.
I have watched extensive video from the event in Oregon and am privy to accounts from participants. From the information at my disposal, it would appear that Ammon and team did NOT make clear their intentions to occupy the federal wildlife refuge building except to a select few, inviting protesters to "take a hard stand" without revealing what this would entail until they were already in the middle of it all. OPSEC? No, I think not. Obviously the goal was to lure as many protesters to Oregon as possible to the event in the hopes that they would jump on board with the stand-off plan once they were more personally involved. Numerous protesters were rightly enraged once they discovered the ultimate motives behind the event.
The plan is basically this - use the Hammond family as a vehicle (yes, this is what is being done) even though they did not want any kind of standoff to result and specifically refused aid. Occupy federally owned buildings which have little to do with anything of importance and have no symbolic power as did Bundy Ranch. Elicit federal response. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Bundy Ranch had many positive elements going for it, which is why it ended the way it did. This standoff has none of the same elements. I suppose one could ask, though, why do I care?
It's true, these people have every right to make positively naive strategic errors and I don't have to participate directly if I don't like it. The problem, however, is that Ammon and friends have decided they want to be the "tip of the spear" (his words, not mine). I do not think they understand what this means, or they don't care. What it means is, even though I think the entire Oregon plan is ill conceived; literally the WORST possible way to launch a fight against federal corruption, if the federal government moves in a heavy handed manner to kill these people, I and many others will have to fight as well by default when a FAR better tactical and social position could have been achieved. My conscience simply will not allow the rationalization of the deaths of liberty minded people even if their stupidity brought about the circumstances. And frankly, that pisses me off.
As a student of asymmetrics, I understand that choosing the time, place and circumstances is 95% of the battle ahead against an advanced opponent. More organization is needed. More preparedness. More training. More public awareness. The Oregon standoff could steal away what little time we had left.
The Oregon standoff potentially forces the hand of the Liberty Movement, not the hand of corrupt government - the exact reverse of what should be happening.
Mike Vanderboegh has outlined similar thoughts expertly in this article. Everything he has written is exactly what was going through my own mind when I heard of the happenings in Oregon. Ammon Bundy and companions are not the tip of the spear. Not even close. What I do fear is that they are cannon fodder beckoning a nationwide government crackdown to which I and others will then be forced to personally respond to with equal f*cking measure. And all of this on the worst possible terms and at a very inconvenient time (executive actions on gun control mere weeks from now).
And here's the best part; those of us who remain critical of the clinically retarded maneuver being executed here are going to be called cowards and "keyboard warriors"; it's a given. We are all ready to fight for the future of this country, we have been training diligently for it and helping many others along the way. But, because we do not support two dimensional planning there are those that will say - "Now we find out who the real patriots are!"
Against stupid plan = coward against freedom and action. Just watch.
If the Feds use brutality to handle the Oregon conflict, it will indeed "kick-off". There wont be any way to stop it. Just don't get too excited, folks. This is no Lexington or Concord. I really don't know what to call it...
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Don't count on it. Reports are there are maybe a dozen idiots who broke into and are occupying MY visitor's center at the refuge. I applaud Sheriff Dave Ward and wish him to stay safe.
This, for fuck's sake. My greatest and most unattainable fantasy is for every worker in north america to wake up one day and decide that he/she is never, ever going to contribute another second of their time or labor to this rotten cesspool. Just fucking stop going to work and the whole thing comes crashing down.
Once you take up arms against our Country (USA) you are a TRAITOR and deserve only death. You dare call yourself patriots? you are a bunch of scum traitors and i look forward to seeing you dead corpses
Okay sheriff dudly doright, go back to your kiddy prOn.
are you quoting the Koran or something?
In case you haven't noticed, we don't have a country anymore. If anything, it is the USSA. That's not the country me, my parents and grandparents were born into. And Hillary Clinton destined to be the Democrat nominee for President. Are you kidding me? This is a banana republic.
yes, it is the country you were born into. The America you learned about in school is a fairy tale that has never really existed.
So you agree? So every elected politician and every federal officer is in violation of their Constitutional oath. If you take foreign money for your political campaign you're a fucking traitor. If you're a dual citizen representing the interests of a second nation over the national interest of America you're a fucking traitor.
If you are complicit in permitting the Mossad to explode the WTC you're a fucking traitor. If you cover-up all investigations that might reveal your complicity in attacking your own country you're a fucking traitor. If you stand in the way of whistle-blowers who are attempting to pursue justice in accordance with the laws of this country.... you're a fucking traitor. If you pursue foreign policy objectives on behalf of foreign states that jeopardize the fiscal solvency of your own country you're a fucking traitor. If you ignore existing laws and allow millions of illegals into the country without so much as lifting a finger you're a fucking traitor.
Glad you agree.
Sadly, you equate our Country with corrupt government controlling it. You have defined yourself as a statist, Torie, totalitarian leaning lemming of the highest stripe. You really should join the military to exercise your desire to suppress. Now, you may continue watching reruns of Obama's best speeches.
The timing seems suspicious, like ammo for King O.
They may have made bad decisions, in Oregon.
But, if you don't support them NOW ... you will have the fight brought to your own porch in the months to come.
And, you'll likely be dying alone, while your "friends" cower at home.
Hard choices for Americans.
How about these thugs go back to whatever out-of-state hole they crawled out of and start their "insurrection" there.
“The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones.”
Confucius
every 'movement' these days starts with a 'color' or flag... it shows those commanding the military and police they face opposition or belief. the local sheriff deputies drive by and think to themselves, "i'm not going up against them..."
almost everything humans accomplish is by collective force.
Militia killed the TRUMP star. There goes the young and educated white voter and anyone whose livelihood depends on civil and well functioning society(that's all city dwellers), mathematically Trump can't defeat a Democrat. He might even lose Iowa badly.
It's up to the media now. Keep this story in the news. The longer it persists , the more angry the population will get at US YallQuaeda.
Unfortunately for Trump, he is now going to be seen as 'redneck gun-totting' seditious traitor favorite pal.
These clowns are NOT OREGON MILITIAMEN. Bundy is from Nevada, and another rancher (excuse me, federal payment parasite) is from Arizona. Not one of these thugs has self-identified as being an Oregon "militiaman".
You're a government plant. What federal do nothing job do you have? Tell us.
Fuck these heavily armed thugs from out of state. And get the hell out of MY wilderness refuge.
funny how this little shack in a NATIONAL area suddenly becomes MY area.... they haven't done anything. not threatened anyone... JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN OREGON DOESN'T MEANT IT IS YOURS... asshat. It belongs to washington and the corporate loggers and miners they lease it out to.
mater of fact? a million people could go up there and hang out in the NATIONAL area that is supposed to belong to those of whom pay taxes... when did we start needing to ask for permission, again?
Douchebag, I LIVE IN OREGON and use that Wildlife Refuge.
well, it's a national thing, bitch. my money goes towards it. own it or let me stop fucking paying for it.
time to pay your rent, deadbeat.
and NOW.... I will be forced to foot the bill of some astronomical bill for some ridiculous heavy handed response by the fucking FBI looking to kill a bunch of bubbas "occupying" a couple toilets and some vending machines out in the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE!
I'm supposed to be mad at these yahoos who want to basically camp out there... at "all costs?" what the fuck do I care? that is unless the feds go in there and kill them for being on national public land.
pretty fucking sure... since i live right next to a federal wildlife refuge... they can't even say it's "closed" until monday and the ties show up to work. until then, they haven't done ANYTHING wrong. what are you going to do? claim they are causing a public disturbance with the local wildlife?
matter of fact... i live right next to one of the ozark national wildlife refuge... I'm not entirely sure they CAN say it's closed. I've never seen it. "sorry... hundreds of thousands of acres of publicly owned land is closed... come back later."
Yeah, be pissed off at the feds instead of these yahoos who have posted armed guards in towers to keep law enforcement away. You deserve to be paying that bill.
As many American Patriots are saying, this Stand by this small Group of Brave Americans is a symptom of a rampant underlying disease within the US GOV:
Did Sen. Harry Reid drive the standoff at the Bundy ranch for personal gain?
Out of that drama came the assertion that Nevada Democratic Sen. Harry Reid was behind it all and the goal was personal gain. Reid publicly endorsed federal action against Bundy.
A tea party website Republic Broadcasting Network out of Texas put it succinctly.
"It’s very simple. Harry Reid, senator from Nevada, is using federal violence to take people’s land in his state so he can package it to re-sell it to the Chinese. That’s what the Bundy Ranch deal is all about."
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/apr/24/blog-posting/did-sen-harry-reid-drive-standoff-bundy-ranch-pers/
Wait wait,
first everyone has to vote whether or not to have a revolution.
Then the referee has to blow a whistle.
Good guys usually finish last when the bad guy is the government.
If it goes back to anyone, it goes to the Indians. Fuck these cowboys. The Indians were there thousands of years ago.
I like the Native Americans more than most. Why don't you give your house back to them? Genius.
More suspected Mafia-like activity by the Reid Crime Family:
Corruption: The standoff in the Nevada desert wasn't about a desert tortoise or a rancher's failure to pay grazing fees. It was about the state's senior senator again enriching himself and his family at public expense.
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/041514-697268-bundy-ranch-harry-reid-rory-reid.htm?ven=rss
This is preservation land in Oregon designated by Teddy Roosevelt to protect birds. These nutcases need to get the fuck out of there and let regular people enjoy their bird watching.
all 27 of them. not to mention the corporate logging leases and minning leases don't like the spotlight on the shady environmental stuff they're doing.
These out-of-state thugs need to go back to whatever hole they crawled out of to carry on their "insurrection", or to "stand by" the Hammonds - in PRISON.
in prison? has anyone broken any laws?
Government Land Grabs: The Truth Exposed – Part 1, 2, 3 and 4
http://www.thenationalpatriot.com/2014/05/11/government-land-grabs-the-truth-exposed-part-1-2-3-and-4/
Its about money and corruption....by senior public servants
You just knew Brandon Smith had to chime in on this.
Maybe his friends in the Oathkeepers (especially active duty law enforcement and military), who have done so much to reverse the war on drugs, demilitarize the police, and restore the Constitution, will ride to the rescue here.
PEOPLE... this is what you should really take away from all of this...
A: Some local ranchers were convicted as fucking terrorists using FARMING PRACTICES that have been around since man invented agriculture. terrorism.
B: A second group of people went into a publicly owned 'park' of sorts, to camp out and be political. They had guns on them... most do in that part of the country side... They are now terrorists.
C: We await our president's speech tomorrow about how we really need to take all the guns away from these terrorists... and how the federal government will go in and deal with them at gunpoint.
...pretty much sums it up.
What about the incident where the land was torched after poaching game animals?
http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arso...
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2660399-Statement-USattorney.html
This is the real superceding issue that will be brushed under the carpet and made explosive with gunfire. The original Hammond case was a local bullshit case of burning a 150 acres or so. that's like to the stop sign up from me...
This, to me, is beside the point. Arson is usually not a federal crime. Poaching Is not a federal crime demanding mandatory sentencing. These men WENT to prison and were released. The area involved felt that justice was served.
Now, question me this? Does demanding that an old man farmer go back to federal prison.. then has a frigg'n militia show up sound off to you? Everyone involved better hope the paper trail is well hidden.
You burn federal land and the minimum sentence is five years. If you don't take the plea deal and the jury convicts you, then the prosecutor will make you pay the full price. It is as simple as that. No conspiracy here.
Mandatory minimum sentencing is assinine and unconstitutional, statist.
States rights supersede "Federal" land":
"Thomas Jefferson was quoted by Deborah Jones Meritt as stated in a letter written in 1816: “[T]he way to have good and safe government is not to trust it all to one, but to divide it among the many, distributing to every one exactly the functions he is competent to . . . . It is by dividing and subdividing these republics from the great national one down through all its subordinations, until it ends in the administration of every man’s farm by himself; by placing under every one what his own eye may superintend, that all will be done for the best . . . . The elementary republics of the wards, the county republics, the State republics, and the republic of the Union, would form a gradation of authorities, standing each on the basis of law, holding every one its delegated share of powers, and constituting truly a system of fundamental balances and checks for the government.”
https://occupycorporatism.com/bundy-ranch-red-river-states-rights-federa...
ummm... they went to prison... got released... then somebody came along and said, "no, we want to see you go back and die in prison, old man..." you don't see an ulterior motive?
and no... the mandatory sentence was from a '96 terrorism law.
This article, which is BS, serves the intended purpose for the lunatic fringe. Having grown up in ranching country nothing surprises me what ranchers will do. The public lands ranchers are the worst. The biggest untold story is water and riparian access for ranching. That's what Bundy was about, and Kit Laney. With the range in poor condition for decades and lingering drought the Feds have had to close riparian areas and reduce grazing permits. A lot of these public lands are huge watersheds, vital for water management. Contrary to popular myth most ranchers are not good stewards of public land. Historically, ranchers over grazed and mismanaged. Drive I25 south of ABQ to El Paso. Nothing but creosote, chaparral and some sage, all invasive species brought about by those huge Texas cattle drives back in the day. All this brought about the Grazing Act, which if hadn't happened, would have made the surface of the moon a tropical paradise by comparison. Public lands ranching is just a more acceptable form of the FSA in the public eye because of the beloved cowboy icon. What is more insidious is Hammond, Bundy and Laney are just PR front men for a much larger take over of public lands by private equity groups who, BTW, run a majority of public land ranching operations.
The official lies are still official lies, even when they are written up by lawyers and sound all fancy.
to clarify... if they were convicted of merely arson, they wouldn't be going back to prison. as the local judge, jury and trial didn't think it was warranted. THE FEDERAL folks felt diffrently. 'cause see... they were tried under a 1996 terrorism federal law. I don't care what they did. The locals seemed to make their peace. The feds came in and said, "no, they are terrorists..." i have problems with that... i think there is more than we are being told.
These guys didn't choose this place or this case for the legal aspects of the case. The case is a bullshit afterthought. They chose it for the location. The feds backed down and the people stood up in Nevada... They're going to see if they can do it again. It will not fly to send in troops and feds to shoot up these guys basically camping at an abandoned wilderness area in the middle of a january mountain winter. They'd be lucky to just survive up there, cut off.
No, they are challenging the heavy hand of the federal governement. I suspect it will roll out new rules and bravado and will not do much to those guys. Let the cascade winter do it for them. Have the crazies in the ME draw all the headlines.
In doing such, it's a draw. That will be twice the Bundy's made the goverment blink.