Oregon Standoff: A Terrible Plan That We Might Be Stuck With
Submitted by Brandon Smith via Alt-Market.com,
Well, there is whole host of things wrong with this situation, which is why I never supported or endorsed "Operation Hammond Freedom" to begin with. There is a lot of misinformation out there at this time on the debacle in Oregon, and certain alternative media outlets seem to be conveniently overlooking particular facts. I suspect that some people in the movement simply want to "kick it off" (a second American revolution), and they don't care if the circumstances of that kick-off are favorable or terrible (I realize "favorable" is relative, but starting this fight from a much stronger position is more than possible). This attitude was prevalent among some at Bundy Ranch, as certain groups refused to dig in positions for a real fight in the hopes that they would be "martyred" for the cause. This, in case you were wondering, is idiotic.
Oath Keepers including founder Stewart Rhodes was the only organization to predict how Ammon Bundy's vague calls for action on the part of the Hammond Family would actually play out. They received a lot of ignorant attacks in response, and yet, they were absolutely right.
Ammon, apparently trying to recreate what cannot be recreated, is looking for another Bundy Ranch stand-off. First, I would point out that such events can't be artificially fabricated. They have to happen in an organic way. Whenever a group of people attempt to engineer a revolutionary moment, even if their underlying motivations are righteous, it usually ends up kicking them in the ass (Fort Sumter is a good example). Ammon's wingmen appear to be Blaine Cooper aka Stanley Blaine Hicks (a convicted felon), and Ryan Payne (who claimed falsely during the Bundy Ranch standoff that he was an Army Ranger and who worked diligently to cause divisions between involved parties on the ground). This was the first sign that nothing good was going to come from the Hammond protest.
I have watched extensive video from the event in Oregon and am privy to accounts from participants. From the information at my disposal, it would appear that Ammon and team did NOT make clear their intentions to occupy the federal wildlife refuge building except to a select few, inviting protesters to "take a hard stand" without revealing what this would entail until they were already in the middle of it all. OPSEC? No, I think not. Obviously the goal was to lure as many protesters to Oregon as possible to the event in the hopes that they would jump on board with the stand-off plan once they were more personally involved. Numerous protesters were rightly enraged once they discovered the ultimate motives behind the event.
The plan is basically this - use the Hammond family as a vehicle (yes, this is what is being done) even though they did not want any kind of standoff to result and specifically refused aid. Occupy federally owned buildings which have little to do with anything of importance and have no symbolic power as did Bundy Ranch. Elicit federal response. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Bundy Ranch had many positive elements going for it, which is why it ended the way it did. This standoff has none of the same elements. I suppose one could ask, though, why do I care?
It's true, these people have every right to make positively naive strategic errors and I don't have to participate directly if I don't like it. The problem, however, is that Ammon and friends have decided they want to be the "tip of the spear" (his words, not mine). I do not think they understand what this means, or they don't care. What it means is, even though I think the entire Oregon plan is ill conceived; literally the WORST possible way to launch a fight against federal corruption, if the federal government moves in a heavy handed manner to kill these people, I and many others will have to fight as well by default when a FAR better tactical and social position could have been achieved. My conscience simply will not allow the rationalization of the deaths of liberty minded people even if their stupidity brought about the circumstances. And frankly, that pisses me off.
As a student of asymmetrics, I understand that choosing the time, place and circumstances is 95% of the battle ahead against an advanced opponent. More organization is needed. More preparedness. More training. More public awareness. The Oregon standoff could steal away what little time we had left.
The Oregon standoff potentially forces the hand of the Liberty Movement, not the hand of corrupt government - the exact reverse of what should be happening.
Mike Vanderboegh has outlined similar thoughts expertly in this article. Everything he has written is exactly what was going through my own mind when I heard of the happenings in Oregon. Ammon Bundy and companions are not the tip of the spear. Not even close. What I do fear is that they are cannon fodder beckoning a nationwide government crackdown to which I and others will then be forced to personally respond to with equal f*cking measure. And all of this on the worst possible terms and at a very inconvenient time (executive actions on gun control mere weeks from now).
And here's the best part; those of us who remain critical of the clinically retarded maneuver being executed here are going to be called cowards and "keyboard warriors"; it's a given. We are all ready to fight for the future of this country, we have been training diligently for it and helping many others along the way. But, because we do not support two dimensional planning there are those that will say - "Now we find out who the real patriots are!"
Against stupid plan = coward against freedom and action. Just watch.
If the Feds use brutality to handle the Oregon conflict, it will indeed "kick-off". There wont be any way to stop it. Just don't get too excited, folks. This is no Lexington or Concord. I really don't know what to call it...
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we will see, though. most folks don't even understand the logistics of that terrain. the local sheriff is spouting off, but he's not been over there... 'cause it's not his sand box. nobody has been to talk them but reporters. nobody accused them of doing anything wrong. 'cause they haven't, yet. i'm certainly watching like everyone else.
it's almost a 200,000 acre wildlife refuge that is publicly owned. it's not a national park. you can't just 'close it' people have logging, hunting rights and all sorts of shit.
Why does no one challenge jurisdiction?
I'd also make a carpenters bet at an old western shootout that those boys didn't just wake up one morning and say, "lets do this!" There were plans and allies made.
Never let a crisis go to waste. The smart move by .GOV in this case is a long-standoff. This supports firearms dialog in the news. Adds to general fear on both sides of the issue. Yes siree. Do not let this resolve quickly. Drag it out whilst POTUS takes Executive Action and see if can't be used during that time for greater .GOV advantage. Overall, I predict .GOV to slow-play this hand.
Politics Course Level 101.
Yep
NEVER be someone else's bitch, EVERYONE will be the governments bitch if you are not willing to take up arms against it. FREE AVERY...
God Bless these brave Americans ! Don't nit pick them .... support them !
This fucking scum-bag government puts one hand on these guys and it will be enough for me. Fuck this P.O.S Government, out of control Lunatics, if drones are even in the area it should be enough for the American people to stand up? They want to use drones on us? FUCK THEM! The P.O.S. people that we call our government has to be stopped!
Looks like CNN has started their 'professional' coverage:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/04/us/oregon-standoff-social-media-reaction/
Better yet:
Why aren’t we calling the Oregon occupiers ‘terrorists?’ Would a group of black or Muslim Americans be given the same benefit of the doubt? -Washington Post
CNN sounds like the fucking pussies they are, what a douche bag and I wonder why I havent turned them on in ages. CNN SUCKS!
Black Lives Matter are soo stupid they dont even realize we are fighting the same enemy? DUH WTF is the matter with these people? THESE WHITE GUYS ARE FIGHTING THE SAME JUSTICE SYSTEM... HOLY SHIT you cant get more stupid... Hey Black Lives matter why not join the fight? Who are you defending the government? I hope they really arent this stupid? Stupid is as stupid does.
Apparently not the sharpest knives in the drawer.
HEY BLACK LIVES MATTER ....THESE WHITE GUYS ARE FIGHTING THE SAME JUSTICE SYSTEM? WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH THAT? Where is the support against the tyranny?
BLACK LIVES MATTER DOESNT AGREE THAT THE JUSTICE SYSTEM WAS JUST PLAIN CORRUPT MUCH LIKE MANY OF THEIR COMPLAINTS? IF THEY WERENT STUPID THE MOVEMENT COULD BE STRONGER? Complete fucking AIR HEADS.
Since when has Black Lives Matter Supported this Government and Law enforcement? WTF? THE SAME CORRUPT LEGAL SYSTEM THEY ARE FIGHTING.
Just keep in mind ONE THING the Government are the Liars and the problem... PERIOD. STAY FUCKING FOCUSED.
I vote We RIP THE MONKEY OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE right now!
Yup it's a tad early for that shit. Still a red neck rancher, why can't i graze on public lands movement, but we'll see.
Follow the Dollars and all will be revealed:
Aha.. It turns Out That The Hammond Ranch Is Sitting On Natural Gas And Uranium that China Wants..Like The Bundys Ranch Was.....
Why the Hammonds?
“The story is like an onion, you just keep peeling back the layers,” Maupin said.
From what YouTuber William Mount says, there is MUCH more to this story, and in typical Obama fashion, it’s all absolutely FILTHY… every damn bit of it.
Mount says that “what the feds have” with the rest of the land surrounding the Hammond Ranch, is well documented in U.S. Geological Survey Bulletin 1740-B. Download it now before it gets taken down.
It turns out that the land the feds own, and the land in question at the Hammond Ranch have enormous amounts of Natural Gas, Uranium, Mercury, and Arsenic.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=36534
Guess who has first dibs on the Hammond Ranch when the Federal Terrorists finally force them off their land or murder them...? Yip You got it....The BLM/Feds.
Who are the Terrorists!!!!?
They are fucking selling all of our resources out from under us.. The Gov needs to GO! THE US GOVERNMENT ARE FUCKING TRAITORS!
The government cannot be traitors, only the employees can.
The entire governing body of "public servants" then.
Guess what!!! Unless the Hammonds own the mineral rights under that land their surface rights in no way interfere with the ability to sell the mining rights to China or 3 Fingers Vincent.
Most land that is owned west of the Mississippi is surface rights only.
Your one of the reason we need CHANGE, is this what you accept? Do you have a mind of your own or do you do what ever anyone tells you to do?
yup, I assume bho sent them a thank you card for the timing?
.......can't help but be suspicious! Did they have an agent provacateur who egged them on like the fake Hutaree member who riled everyone up in Michigan a while back?
***
Anyone paying attention knows the only terrists the Feds catch are the patsies they create. When the husband and wife went off in CA on some (probably) self-actualized attack, there was no intel.
Is this Lake City on hwy 55 in Minn?
The real issues are: The arsonists were retried in appellate court. The judicial system has declared that double jeopardy applies to a court system. You can not be retried in the same court system. They apparently feel appellate court is a different court system. This is the government telling the citizens that they better lean how to be lap dogs because they are not going to win. The two have sure learned how to be lap dogs. They are scared shitless.
Yesterday there were several posts concerning some unnamed official came to town and put a gag order on all elected officials. There has been no talk of the Fusion Centers. Why? These are unelected bureaucrats that come into an area and they are the top authority...over all local authorities including law enforcement. They direct law enforcement. Welcome to America!
There are big issues here that might come out.
Here is a pretty factual piece w/o Alex where they do some history on USG violation of the 10th Amendment on land grabs. I can remember reading in the Constitution where the .politburo is only supposed to have armories, forts, docks, etc. not almost 30% of the land mass in the CONUS.
http://www.infowars.com/oregon-occupation-about-unconstitutional-federal...
However, I think these guys picked the wrong fight at the wrong time. Like King George, you gotta let 'em step on their dicks until it's apparent to everyone!
That map is a nice depiction of lands stolen from native americans. There is no moral high ground here by libertarian white people. Much of the land was aquired through genocide.
Woah, majority of Indians died of disease. Not denying the atrocities inflicted but, had the settlers the best intentions the outcome would have been no different.
These hotheads got spook oped by an agent provocateur or two.
You are correct in the stand down order until it is blatantly obvious to everyone what the NWO game plan is.
Watch and wait.
~ DC
I am sorry but looking at the guy's picture I can see him as being ON a tip of a spear and not the tip of a spear.
"And all of this on the worst possible terms and at a very inconvenient time (executive actions on gun control mere weeks from now)."
The only "convenient time" for an Rhoades' Oathkeeper is never.
"Throughout the 1850s Governor Stevens of the Washington Territory clashed with the US Army over Indian policy: Stevens wanted to displace Indians and take their land, but the army opposed land grabs. White settlers in the Rogue River area began to attack Indian villages, and Captain Smith, commandant of Fort Lane, often interposed his men between the Indians and the settlers. In October 1855, he took Indian women and children into the fort for their own safety; but a mob of settlers raided their village, killing 27 Indians. The Indians killed 27 settlers expecting to settle the score, but the settlers continued to attack Indian camps through the winter. On May 27, 1856 Captain Smith arranged the surrender of the Indians to the US Army, but the Indians attacked the soldiers instead. The commander fought the Indians until reinforcements arrived the next day; the Indians retreated. A month later they surrendered and were sent to reservations." Smith/Codiek ... UofO /wiki
I agree entirely. This is STUPID. In no way is this country ready for the uprising. And by deliberately taking a government property instead of waiting for a clear case of self-defense, they can't even make effective martyrs.
It reminds me of Oklahoma City. Before the bombing, you could walk into any Federal Building in the country without any kind of effective security. A well-planned multiple hit could have crippled the IRS and SSA as well as making a media storm -- and it could have been a DECADE before security was upgraded. After? Far, far more difficult. Ineffective moves only make it harder to achieve victory when you have a shot at it.
In my opinion, the Southern strategy in the Civil War was inept, or at least insufficient. Should have sent thousands of plainclothes northward to wage an unending small unit hit-and-run campaign against northern industrial and political targets.
Regarding the Bundy's latest move, there is as much or more danger for the Fedcoats as the conflict escalates. If they go full Waco/Ruby Ridge, they will invite the beginning of Northern Ireland style hits on their political and communication infrastructure whilst confirming (in the minds of many) that now is the hour for armed resistance. More sublty, it influences any Unconstitutional fiats the White Housenigger may be contemplating. This may or may not be the time for pawn sacrifice (Bundy's crew), but it sure as hell is a piece moving on the board. Bundy may be stupid, but I KNOW there are some governers out there who will use his action to benefit that state's citizens. What would I like to see? Gov Abbot in Texas call a referendum on secession, to be held the next time the White Housenigger uses .gov agencies or an EO for something Unconstitutional. Follow that up with a call to Putin, and let's get it on!
There is peace in northern ireland because enough regular people want peace. Nutcases stand no chance in the USA because half the people in these movements will turn the others in. Decades in prison for what? A belief formed by reading bullshit on the internet. Fuck these losers.
Your comment: "Decades in prison for what?"
The guy in the story was just sentenced to 5 years after serving a year for a burning off some property... Whats the difference 4 years? for doing nothing or 10 for trying? Its people like you who are the fucking idiots who allow it to continue.. Fucking Loser! Decades in prision is the PROBLEM obviously for Blacks and Whites alike? What does that tell you? ITS NOT FUCKING US???
We need to lock those up who are unjustly locking ALL of us UP! FUCKING IDIOTS! Maybe we could save a few real AMERICANs a few decades in jail and allow them to live a peaceful life?
The guy is serving 5 years because congress set a mandatory minimum of 5 years for all federal arson (not just terrorism related). The guy could have taken a plea deal. He didn't and he was required to be sentenced under the rule of law. It is as simple as that. If you think otherwise, turn off your fucking computer and go read a book.
Its dickheads like you who believe and go by what anyone says? The LAW IS FLAWED, just as you are! The law has been crafted by tyrants to give them the advantage if you really want to fucking look into it? DOUCHE BAG! We have the Highest incarceration rate of any "civilized" society... ITs very apparent to most we have gone in the "other" direction... You FUCKING IDIOT! GO POUND FUCKING SAND!
The GOV even thinks about touching these guys..... It wont be good.. They havent burned any buisnesses down yet and guns are still legal the last time I checked.
Then change the law and don't occupy federal buildings that peaceful people want to use. You fuckin prick. I might want to take my grandma bird watching up there. These inbred assholes don't have a right to interrupt my afternoon.
Its too fucking late.... too many APATHETIC pieces of SHIT Like YOU! LET IT GET THIS FAR! The guy is unjustly going to jail for 5 years and the only thing you can think about is fucking BIRD WATCHING. Sorry to distrub your afternoon moron... Looks like a big enough state you might be able to find some birds if your not fucking blind? You need an unjust 5 year sentence to smarten you the fuck up! You fucking pompus ASS!
The Law has been taken over by bought Tyrants and its no longer valid! PERIOD, its not crafted for or by the people anymore which makes it NULL!
There is a million fucking causes out there to get excited about. If I want to watch birds and not give a fuck about your cause, too fucking bad. You don't get to take over federal facilities for your bullshit. Now get the fuck out of the way.
No lets just keep stuffing everyone in jail, I see by your handle youll be profiting from it? LOSER! I would suggest a different area to watch the FUCKING BIRDS...Some people want to make change...Deadbeats need not apply! YOU DESERVING FUCKING ASSHOLE!...
They havent LOOTED, BURNED or HURT ANYONE its peaceful? Only a moron like you would interpret it this way.
THE ONLY PEOPLE REFERING TO THESE PEOPLE AS TERRORISTS IS OUR GOVERNMENT... SO THEY CAN JUSTIFY USE OF FORCE... UNCLE SHAM IS SCUM!
"The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is aware that an unknown number of armed individuals have broken into and occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge facility near Burns, Oregon. While the situation is ongoing, the main concern is employee safety, and we can confirm that no federal staff were in the building at the time of the initial incident. We will continue to monitor the situation for additional developments."
You don't get to do that.
dup
You dont get to continuously and unjustly lock people up or it eventually will come to a head... My guess is that its the system and these symptoms will continue to pop up... You can continue to spread whatever propaganda you want, but not even you realize your on the wrong team.. Youll find out soon and when you do you will regret being such a pompous DICKHEAD. I forget you Troopers arent programmed to "think" that much anymore, I know a few really good ones, but man your not one... do you just look to the law book for guidance? So you know what to do? Are you lost without it? Your little set of guidelines to guide you through the day?
These are Americans Friend. The Law is failing them. They havent threatened anyone and this gov should be careful.
Drive out and go bird watching then, who said you can't? Who scared you into thinking you can't go there? Until you get sent packing for trying, you are just blowing stale air.
There's a lot more to this story than what the media is saying. Please look at these links. I even question the narrative on the "occupation" of a federal building. I read last night that the building was not occupied, was open, and the people went in to stay warm. I just think there area lot of things building right now & our federal govt is way out of control. This story on the Hammonds and the govt trying to take their property came out today. http://www.infowars.com/hammonds-targeted-because-government-wants-to-st... And I saw this one with a timeline of what has been happening to this family for years. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going... It explains how the BLM had been persecuting this family because they are the last ranchers on this resource-rich property. THis isn't some overnight takeover of an empty forestry division building to start some kind of war. The Hammonds were not arsonists either. The first link talks about how it was not uncommon for ranchers doing controlled burns on their property to inadvertently move to federal land. The fire that got them arrested happened in 2001. They had to do another controlled burn in 2006 after lightning started a fire but what they did completely stopped the fire altogether. Former BLM employeed said she had never seen anyone prosecuted for these burns except the Hammonds. THey were convicted using the 1996 anti-terrorism law (they aren't terrorists) and the judge didn't want to go against the Constitution's 8th Amendment of "cruel and unusual punishment". He gave the father 3 months and the son 12 in a federal prison. After doing their time, a BLM field officer and her husband (a Malheur Wildlife Refuge employee) vindictively appealed the original ruling to get them sent back to prison for a full 5 years. That's when the protests started. They were very unhappy to see these men convicted for terrorism/arson when they were trying to protect their land and stop the fire from spreading to their house, then see them heading back to prison leaving their families behind to care for all of it??? THe court also made them pay $400,000 to the BLM. THey had paid $200,000 of it and were required to pay the rest by the end of 2016. If they didn't, their ranch was going to be taken over by the BLM. Yeah, I can see people being a little bit angry about that. And if we see the media slanting this in a direction that is wrong, we need to stand up to that and spread the truth.
I don't give a fuck what you read. The refuge is closed. The rest of your text can be ignored because you, my friend are full of shit.
http://www.fws.gov/nwrs/twocolumn.aspx?id=2147583082
You know. THe day is going to come when it happens to you and who is going to do a damn thing for someone like you? No one. You didn't look at anything I wrote and I really don't care because you don't deserve it. I used to work in the mainstream media....all the way up to the #4 market in the nation in a station that was a government/ military access station, ABC, and PBS. I know how they and the govt work. You go ahead an shill for them because you don't know shit about it.
You know. THe day is going to come when it happens to you and who is going to do a damn thing for someone like you? No one. You didn't look at anything I wrote and I really don't care because you don't deserve it. I used to work in the mainstream media....all the way up to the #4 market in the nation in a station that was a government/ military access station, ABC, and PBS. I know how they and the govt work. You go ahead an shill for them because you don't know shit about it.
I call it the way I see it. Alt media needs to be held to a higher standard. Otherwise, may as well shut the fuck up about MSM.
Exactly, Thank YOU! This guy is from the "other" team?.. DONT WASTE YOUR FUCKING TIME WITH THIS BRAIN DEAD DRONE!
The only way this differs from a Black Lives matter riot would be that there has been not looting or burning of property? Other than that its the same bitch, a legal system that wants to lock everyone up.
If Obama supports Black Lives Matter he should support these guys for the same reason. Oppressive Enforcement would be the common thread. Obamas a complete fucking hypocrite once again.