"It's Time For You To Leave": Oregon Sheriff Demands Militiamen "Peacefully" Depart
Despite Ammon Bundy’s best efforts to explain the motives of the militiamen who over the weekend seized control of a remote federal building in Oregon, it’s still not entirely clear why several dozen US citizens decided to occupy the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
WaPo is probably correct to say that there "are gun rights issues, religious overtones, broad strains of anti-government sentiment and even the tactics of the Occupy Wall Street movement" at play, but like the Occupy movement, those holed up in the snowy government outpost have yet to articulate a coherent set of grievances to justify their cause.
As we outlined on Sunday, Ammon Bundy is the son of Cliven Bundy, a kind of folk hero at the heart of a 2014 standoff with the government that ended with what some say was a victory for individual and state’s rights.
As I said on @CNN this morning, I love my wife & family. I have no plans nor desire to die. We are peaceful people. #OccupyMalheur
— Ammon Bundy (@Ammon_Bundy) January 4, 2016
Apparently, the younger Bundy is attempting to engineer another direct conflict with federal authorities by rallying around the “cause” of Dwight Hammond and his son Steven, who were sent back to jail on Monday for arson.
Bundy and the rest of the militiamen (who say they're "in it for the long haul" and who have named themselves the "Citizens for Constitutional Freedom") camped out at Malheur have indicated they’re prepared to fight should the government move to forcibly remove them from the wildlife refuge and at least one American is calling for “shoot to kill” orders for the National Guard.
In what may perhaps mark the beginning of open hostilities between authorities and the militia, Harney County Sheriff David Ward politely told the group that “it’s time to leave” on Monday.
"You said you were here to help the citizens of Harney County. It is time for you to leave our community, go home to your families, and end this peacefully,” Ward said, on behalf of himself and county Judge Steven Grasty.
As Reuters explains, “the Oregon occupation marks the latest skirmish in the so-called sagebrush rebellion, a decades-old conflict over federal control of millions of acres of land and natural resources in the West.”
Bundy insists the militiamen are “patriots,” but Wendy Bull, a teacher in Burns whose husband, a social worker, operates a local clinic run by the U.S. Veteran Affairs Department, says the men are “domestic terrorists.” As Reuters goes on to note, “the takeover in Oregon [has drawn] criticism on social media, with some users asking if the occupiers would have been treated differently if they had been black or Muslim.”
BBC got an inside look at life inside the compound. “When we arrived in darkness all was calm and quiet,” columnist James Cook begins. “We were greeted courteously by men carrying copies of the US constitution, who told us they were unarmed.” Here’s more:
They had draped the US flag over a sign at the entrance to the wildlife refuge and they offered us a cup of coffee.
The guards told us that the armed men inside were not taking visitors at present but would be happy to come out and meet the media face to face in the morning.
One of the men tried to give me a small US Fish and Wildlife Service sign from the building "as a souvenir".
"It's mine," he said, "I paid for it," making a reference to his taxes.
Some people in the community around the town of Burns say while they do not approve of the methods, they are in tune with the sentiment.
Back at the bird reserve, the mood changed slightly as the day dawned, the birds started singing and the winter sun struggled to pierce the hazy clouds.
The media were now at the gate in force and the men there were more reluctant to talk.
"We need to stick to the narrative," one told us as he explained why we needed to wait for their leader Ammon Bundy.
Down a slight hill, we could now see the headquarters clearly, the red roofs of the sheds standing out against the snow.
Several dark-clad figures moved around in the complex.
When Mr Bundy emerged to speak to the media he refused to tell me how many people were inside the bird sanctuary or how many were armed but, after the news conference, camera crews were given a limited tour of the site.
We were told we would not be shown anything relating to "operational security" or anything that would "put lives at risk" and, indeed, we were kept away from any weapons on the site.
A number of US government vehicles sat in the car park, covered in snow.
We were not allowed into most of the buildings and saw no more than a dozen men and one woman inside.
We were taken into a building where one of the protestors said he had been sleeping. It appeared to be a gym for the federal employees who usually manage this land.
There were cans of chicken noodle soup, oranges, apples and other food.
Through a glass window we could see a man and a woman cooking food in a kitchen. The site appeared to be in good condition.
Yes, the "site appears to be in good condition" - for now.
Three administration officials who spoke to Reuters said federal authorities are "following U.S. policy guidelines instituted to prevent standoffs from turning violent in the wake of deadly clashes at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, and Waco, Texas in the early 1990s."
It's unclear how long that protocol will last, but rest assured, there's only so long the government is going to allow this sideshow to persist. After all, if one bird sanctuary falls to "militants", what's to keep another from falling tomorrow? Before long, there may be no federally administered bird sanctuaries left.
All sarcasm aside, the question here is clearly this: how long will it be before the government abandons the new "policy guidelines" and reverts to the pre-Waco strategy that would see the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge turned into a bad day in Fallujah?
(17 votes)
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By Sheriff Richard MackOn January 2, 2016, four of us representing the CSPOA attended the rally in Burns, OR on behalf of the Hammond family. It was an extremely frigid day and being outside was not fun or the least bit comfortable. But the cause we were there to support was worth enduring the inclement weather, so we persevered.
We met at the Safeway parking lot and after a few instructions about where we would be heading, we all started the march. The crowd was estimated at approximately 6oo people. As we marched up the street towards the sheriff's office, the crowd completely filled the street from side to side for over 2½ blocks. It was inspiring!
There were never any signs or chants supporting any kind of violence. The large majority of the protesters were not armed. We stopped briefly by the sheriffs office and threw hundreds of pennies on the walk at the office front door. Many said the pennies represented a "sellout" by the Harney County Sheriff for not stopping the impending arrest of Dwight and Steve Hammond. There was no question that the Hammonds' rights have been violated by the Federal Government, however, the Hammonds did not want an armed confrontation or violence of any kind. This coincides exactly with the CSPOA platform, so we went there in complete support of the Hammonds and their peaceful approach.
After we passed the sheriff's office we went to the home of Susan and Dwight Hammond. They came outside and waved as numerous protesters laid flowers on their doorstep. A few of us spoke briefly with the Hammonds and offered our support and apologies for what they were going through. They were very gracious.
Then suddenly, and with no announcement to do so, the crowd broke out singing, "Amazing Grace." Yes this group of "radicals and extremists" as the media has often called them, did a "radical" performance of "Amazing Grace."
As we headed down the road, Dwight Hammond - who has been sentenced to an additional five years for a crime he has served time for and paid all subsequent fines for - yelled to the crowd, "This is not about me, this is about our country."
Yes, this is about our country, our liberty, and our sacred Constitution. This is about federal agents who have done the same thing the Hammonds have been charged with and for which they have received no punishment whatsoever. How many times in America have federal officers burned up forests and neighborhoods due to their "controlled burns" ending up out of control?
But the Hammonds have conducted themselves with class and humility. They have exemplified strength, courage, and dignity. We should emulate their patriotic and peaceful spirit and stand with them as they go through this unspeakable federal victimization.
We should allow nothing to detract from the Hammonds' plight and the wonderful rally that was held in their honor. The Hammonds had tears in their eyes as they viewed the huge crowd of well-wishers and thanked each of us for our support. Thus, for the record, CSPOA does not support or condone the occupation by those individuals who have taken over the Federal Wildlife building just outside Burns, Oregon. With all our hearts we appeal to all those occupying the Federal facility to immediately vacate the building and to go home to their families!
Local officials including the Harney County Sheriff are still working for a peaceful resolution on the Hammonds' behalf. We will continue to work and pray for their success.
http://cspoa.org/
Amazing Grace, it's like nails down the chalkboard to communists!
What is the address of the sipsey street irregulars? Is it http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/ ?
Yes, and Mike may not be with us much longer. :(
It’s easy to grin when III%’s roll in,
And you know you have the moral high ground.
But a resistance worthwhile, is a resistance with style,
On which this great country was found.
Their cause isn't clear if you are an idiot or a media shill. BLM has been stealing basically ALL of the land in the American west for two generations now. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT OWN PROPERTY. These assholes are building their own personal kingdom out there and making lots of money by being corrupt.
The BLM has made some confiscatory overreaches. The EPA and FWS are quickly becoming overlords via the clean water act. Dealing with any of them is cumbersome, delaying and often insulting.
But Bundy and his band are just making fools of themselves.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/04/unbelievable-update-orego...
Wow.
Just, Wow.
effing cunt. She'd better start loking for a new place to live....
Of course the fedcoats put as many insane (but aren't they all?) and hysterical women to positions they aren't qualified for.
Women think the government is their daddy and will do anything to protect it. Especially if it violates citizens rights!
Giving women the right to vote created this federal monstrosity.
Thanks wimpy men of 'merica.
I doubt the founders would recognize this country if alive today.
A nation of cucks and cunts, spreading evil the ko$her way, with fiat money.
Of course they're women, when you couldn't even do serious time for murder why would you balk at giving a 70 year old dude 5 years for a back fire?
Yes to your first three sentences, fuck you to the last one. If doing something is making a fool of oneself, then the world would be better off populated by fools, leaving the idle "wise" in the dustbin of history.
The farmers they're "doing something for" don't want them there. The farmers were intentionally criminal; not once but twice. The surrounding community doesn't want them there.
The farmers who get persecuted by the EPA for building a pond, stand up for them. The ranchers who have almost all of their land stolen by the BLM, stand up for them.
But, in this instance, Bundy and his band are being opportunists and making fools of themselves. So fuck you.
Interesting point, H-T. The organizers appear to be extending beyond their own mission.
"Not distracted from the bad press, Payne went on to form an organization called Operation Mutual Defense in 2014. The stated goal was to make their original group Operation Mutual Aid, more effective in response, planning, coordination and organization, in defense of life, liberty or property."
"Oddly enough, they state that they 'serve to coalesce resources to protect and defend citizenry requesting support.' ”
https://georgepatton325.wordpress.com/2016/01/04/oregon-occupation-part-...
I don't think there's anything wrong with standing up against injustice even if the victims of that injustice don't want support. But this is a bad situation that won't end well for the liberty movement.
ranchers hammonds convicted under terrorism law, for burning some brush to improve range. watching the congressmen and senators and police of the state gives us a good idea about the theory: US Military will never fire on USA citizens and will not come for your weapons.
5yrs in prison for a brush fire out in middle of no where..??
Corzine laughs and laughs shouting suckers..dumb ass hicks.
Have the Hammond's been sentenced to another 5 years? I hadn't read it, I assumed it was less than a year they'd be going back for.
The prosecutors are pushing for that 5 yr term, which begs the question why does a prosecutor get to step in after the judge has passed sentence, after the sentence was served?
TY for the reply, I hadn't seen that anywhere. Putting a man away for 5 years for anything less than heinous violent crimes is a crime itself. Obviously they shouldn't serve any time but 5 years...the person pushing for 5 years should have her house surrounded by militia until the end of time. Fucking traitors.
The judge was obviously trying to send a message that the charge was not appropriate (he invoked the 8th amendment) when he gave the original sentences - the terrorism charge would have involved proving malice, damage that didn't happen. Prosecutorial overreach, I believe is the nice term. If you look at these as 2 separate events, their case would probably generate a lot of sympathy from middle America, whatever that is today. The Bundys must be getting fan mail from the Feds for their actions.
Not just the prosecutor, but all of the 9th Circuit judges need to be "occupied" as well.
Why? Because once in prison the Hammonds can be suicided by bed sheet or riot. BLM has first right of refusal on the ranch, so they would receive it.
It's also Double Jeopardy.
"Bill, you served your time. Your probation is completed. You have lawful employment, but, I'm afraid the Judge thinks you did not do enough time."
"But, PO, that was 10 years ago!"
"It's not up to me. The judge has stock in a company that wants your land."
"What? Why?"
"Well, we sold a lot of uranium to Russia, and, well, there is uranium ore on your land. Put the cuffs on, let's do this peacefully."
And there is this
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2012/01/malheur_county_targeted_for_go.html
I fucking knew it.
The original sentence was 5 years but the lower court judge felt that was too harsh and they served a year. The federal prosecutor appealed and the appeals court upheld so the Hammnds now have to go back for 4 more years.
All for initiating a fucking back burn to stop another fire that threatened their property and livestock. The FEDS are off the mark here with the dog-piling over-reach by a country fucking mile! The older Hammond is in his mid 70's for God's sake, this could be a death sentence for him because of a fucking brush fire!
#Rancherslivesmatter!
blm wants the ranchers land, some say..what better way to get it then trumped up charges of terrorism? some idiot thinks 5 yrs is ok for this verdict posting here, how long is corzine serving again??
it;s a big club and those ranchers are not in it. got it?
overmedicated, if you response is to me I would like to be clear, I was asking a question about the sentencing. When I saw they were going to go to jail I assumed they'd be going for a weekend or a month or something like that. 5 years really shocked me and saddened me that an individual would even attempt to do that to another person.
global, thanks for clarifying what you were posting..too many .gov trolls show up on threads like this one here on ZH. I retract that statement about you not caring.
thank you and understandable, I saw the 5 years you quoted and almost couldn't believe it. Sad situation we find ourselves in, hoping for the best.
Note they already served sentences for this of several years.
They are now going in for additional years under the terrorism law after appeals.
All militias should back this or it will also hurt their cause long term. Ofcourse it's easy talking when my own ass isnt on the line.
There may also be tactical reasons for not going out there to that site below zero.
This is essentially it.
The point & time to do something has passed long ago.
The Liberty movement in the United States has no clear goals at the moment.
Let me elaborate:
Does the Liberty Movement (So Sovereign Citizens, III'ers, Militias, etc., etc.,);
3a) If not, what if it becomes easier to leave than to stay & fight? What would you do?
There are no clear positive goals in the Liberty moment right now. Only things they don't want happening.
Until people figure out it is what they want, this is just for show.
We've strayed so far from the Constitution that few would be able to recognize it if they saw it--including Consitutional Law scholars.
the intended structure
the individual>local government> states government> federal government
the actual structure
federal government>state government>local government>the individual
its has been turned on its head by edict and now the structure is crushing the individual.
Bravo!https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qszo8u1m9ZQ
I read your posts for more than just the breasts
Right, but how could it be otherwise. The intended structure makes no sense. How could an entity able to employ violence exempt from consequences ever be subordinate to an individual who can't.
you assume the entity exists of its own--bad flaw in your thinking---the fed only exists at the behest of the states and only to serve the needs of the states--and on down he line---The individual being the supreme benificiary due to unalinable rights ---thats the intended structure---you've been educated I bet---
Actually, it is you who have bought into public education supplied lies about the nature of government.
Yes, the entity was created by a small number of men. Hundreds of years ago. To employ leviathan force in aggressive manner with moral impunity. To rule over all people, consenting to it or not. In perpetuity, including the modern day.
To say the government exists at my behest is propaganda. I never behested it. I don't want a violent overlord ruling over me and I certainly don't want to impose it on others. But some men in the past did, and now that they did, there is no "taking it back" and putting the genie back into the bottle. The entity now has all the guns, writes all the laws, interprets all the laws, and thus has absolute power. It is now firmly in charge of you and me.
This is the only possible outcome. Once such an entity above morality and monopolizing all use of property and all use of force is conjured into existence, freedom is over. A piece of yellowed paper in a glass case or our whining about our "inalienable rights" doesn't slow the entity down one bit. Just look around.
Seems that the result is: the two pyramids/triangles superimposed into one.
well elaborated, I must say. +1 for the clear message, and the simple request for clear positive goals
but... are you still claiming to live and write this from the eurozone, specifically from Germany? what I want to ask is: at what point would you leave US Affairs... as not concerning you? (since you also concern yourself with eurozone affairs)
no, I am not being sarcastic and no, I don't want to bug you with that. I just want to make you consider that for a long time, we in europe had people emigrating to the New World... and still doing things like sending money to causes, in some cases after generations. In some cases causes that were considered illegal, here, at least by the gov. The most obvious example would be money collected in the US for the Irish Republican Army, an outfit that was regarded by the United Kingdom as terrorist, and treated this way. similarly, a lot of support that Israel gets is generated in the same way. and Daesh/ISIS... well, it gets not only lots of volunteers, but also lots of money from outside, and a lot of it is (most probably) private support
at what point is influence and support from afar... just another kind of the "absentee landlord" problem? or a kind of private... "imperialism"? isn't there a parallel to that to your point where if the local community isn't of the same opinion, those guys should leave? don't want to distract from your excellent points/question, mind. for example Q3, where the question in my ears is: individualism or collective action. whereas I answer that a constitution is a collective affair. the very word republic means "the public thing"
As long as I have people I love there, it concerns me.
I also think Germany could greatly benefit from the social collapse of the United States by importing millions of ethnic Germans back into Germany, who are the 2nd most educated & wealthy of any large ethnic group in the United States, behind only the English.
"As long as I have people I love there, it concerns me". a splendid answer. but you don't have people you know personally in that village in Oregon, do you?
Liberty, Fraternity, Equality. Fraternity is exactly that: discrimination... of the positive kind. My father, my uncle, my children, my people and... my People (only slightly abstract)
my personal problem with how you are discriminating is not that you have positive feelings for a group, in this case ethnic Germans in general, regardless where they are
my problem with that is that you have dreams of grand destruction of Others, as in "could greatly benefit from the social collapse of the US..."
as I was outlining above, even positive (discriminative) support for violence might have some (moral) drawback that might bite you in the ass... for example of enemies getting allies, too
oh, well, I could go on for ages, so I better stop here. only this: Fraternity has to be tempered. By Liberty and Equality, of course, and vice versa. otherwise it's the usual outcome
Ghordo,
Did you know that more millionaires were made in the last Great Depression in the 1930s than at any other point in American history? Many people say wealth was destroyed, but that is incorrect, it was transferred.
I have said nowhere I *hope* for the societal destruction of the United States, but I assert it is inevitable. Thus it should be planned for.
Planning for something that is inevitable is not hoping, nor is it bad, but both morally & fraternally responsible. "How can my people most benefit from something that is guaranteed to happen at some point in the future?"
Just yesterday you said something along the lines of it being a "creative idea" for there to be website for European women to find American men after Sweden turns into Swedanistan. Is that, not the exact same as what I have done above?
I actually said it's a creative idea... without any connection to reality, in Sweden. in the same thread you were claiming Germany is new in the business of having Muslims... and I think I refrained from pointing out that you forgot the Turks
as I wrote above, Fraternity, untempered by some Liberty and some Equality is just one of many forms of tyranny, leading to violence. Which then easily breeds more violence
I can't claim that I have a solution for your dream. I can only point out that it's a dream that in our european experience has not lead to positive results. And the most important reason why... is allies. If you focus too much on one group of ethnic people (then we here are aware that it's groups of loosely connected ethnic tribes that form nations) then you can suddently be alone, and attacked by all sides
Germany, specifically, decided to ally itself with France and Italy. Two countries that have as much "Germanic heritage" as Germany itself. On a principle of Equality among the Nations that can be extended to others, as you can see in all the clubs of peers that this principle fostered
this seems to be distasteful to you, for reasons though that have nothing to do with genetics as modern scientific methods elaborate. you have been subjected to a certain amount of propaganda based on pseudo-science from the 19th Century, with it's "Nordic", "Alpine" and "Mediterranian" races. nothing could be further from the real genetics of Swabians, Vandals, Francs, Saxons, Lombards, Normans, Goths, be them western or eastern, etc. etc.
Germany itself was formed by alliances, and more alliances, leading to the modern Federal Republic. and the whole reason for this kind of "public things" is... peace
you fear great upheavals, and I can't blame you about that. but I do blame you for the potentially very violent response that you harbour for them
first, try to find a peaceful solution for your problems. if you can't... well, then comes my second advice: pick your enemies carefully... and make sure you have enough allies
then the winner is often the one left standing because it had more allies, better allies. and those are more often then not those regarded as friends and peers, mutually
Does Genetics play a (very very very large) part in one's intellectual development? Absolutely.
Does culture play a valuable role in what one values, and thus adapts as their goals? Absolutely.
Thus, intelligent people from different cultures will have different goals, and thus likely differenet means of achieving said goals. When you have multiple cultures working side-by-side (hand-in-hand I dare say) ... where they are still allowed to retain their cultural identity, and thus their goals -- the model can be very sucessful.
However, given the human condition, when the goals or the means of achieving those goals become mutually exclusive with one another, then the various cultures either compete against one another, or fight one another. This is how humanity works, and there is no getting around it.
The problem with the treaties these days, is it attempts to eliminate the uniqe cultural characteristics of various groups of people in favor of a new culture, the almighty "European Culture" ... of which there is none, but that is a different topic for a different time. Thus, when the treaties force cultures together with mutually exclusive goals and means of attaining those goals, progress becomes stunted as you have to stop to figure out what the goals actually are before continuing. E.g., some people have to lose.
My suggestion is not that treating, or "yoking" different peoples together is a bad thing. What I am saying is this "we are all the same" nonsense is inherently inefficient given the human condition. Thus, it would make more sense to lump together peoples that share similar cultures, goals and aspirations than the current system.
While painfully simple and offensivly obvious, this offends your notion of a European Union, and thus you, and many of your "comrades" dismiss it, because, well, it doesn't bring everyone else along with us. Even though it is completely financially and politically unworkable.
* a different topic for a different time, ok. but here where I will pick it up: your "almighty European Culture" is pure projection
nobody here in Europe wants to build a European Culture in any equivalent way as the attempts over two centuries to build up an American Culture
nobody here in Europe wants to eliminate unique cultural characteristics. in fact if there is any "attempt" to do that, it's by exposure to American Culture itself
being European in the sense of pro-European means fostering understanding among european cultures, plural
Europe is a Concert. not a choir. it's a violin and a viola and a trombone and a piano and so on, each different. while cooperating in said concert, as peers
oh, and a wannabe lead singer, England, but that's another matter altogether
I repeat: it's not about "like the US". we know that it's very difficult for Americans to understand this, but there it is
Ghordius - Good man, conceptual level thinking. Thought is organized into a pyramid of concepts at the top, issues next then details. It is easy to get mired into the issues without consideration of the concepts. It is why governments push 'wedge issues' so nothing gets solved. With concepts one can properly frame issues and the details tend to take care of themselves.
..my problem with that is that you have dreams of grand destruction of Others, as in "could greatly benefit from the social collapse of the US..."
Actually, he's merely expressing a consensus of a significant number of people that live in this parasite-infested hollowed-out shell clusterfuck of a country that realize a reset is the only way to fix it. Well, that and taking out the trash.
From my vantage point outside of Europe, I'm enjoying watching the various type of parasiteisms in your neck of the woods implode Gordo as they too run out of other people's money. The only thing more enjoyable is you being an apologist here on ZH for said parasitic systems.