Pizza And Assault Rifles: Inside The Occupied Oregon Wildlife Refuge

Tyler Durden's picture




 

When last we checked in on Ammon Bundy and his band of “patriots”, Harney County Sheriff David Ward was getting fed up with the group’s occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

“It is time for you to leave our community, go home to your families, and end this peacefully,” Ward said on Tuesday.

But Ammon Bundy and the handful of armed militiamen holed up at the remote, snowy federal outpost have no such plans. The “Citizens for Constitutional Freedom” (as they now call themselves) are in it for the long haul and have pledged, at various times since “seizing” the office last Saturday, to remain in the building “for years.”

While it’s not entirely clear what Bundy wants, the group’s professed goal is to “"restore the rights to people so they can use the land and resources.” Here’s a bit of helpful color from Terry Andersen, the William A. Dunn Distinguished Senior Fellow at the Property and Environment Research Center and the John and Jean DeNault Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution (from a New York Times op-ed):

Their goal harkens back the “Sagebrush Rebellion” of the 1970s, though their tactics are more draconian. Then the rebels called for more local control of federal lands, if not outright transfer of title to those lands to the states, and such solutions are still worth considering.

 

The impetus for the Oregon occupation is the imprisonment of a father and son for setting fire to federal lands to control invasive species moving to private lands and to help prevent wildfires, a huge land management problem in the West.

 

Living in the mountains south of Bozeman, Mont., I feel their pain because every summer I fight spotted knapweed, an invasive plant spread from my national forest neighbors, and I fear that wildfire will spread from the unmanaged federal land.

 

The second cause is “multiple conflicts over multiple uses.” At the time of the Sagebrush Rebellion the list of multiple uses that federal land agencies were to manage was huge. It is growing exponentially.

 

Western ranchers, loggers, farmers and, yes, even government bureaucrats with their feet on the ground could provide the stewardship sought by the rebels in Oregon. Now that armed confrontation has brought attention to their cause, we need to consider policies that will devolve management to lower levels of government and get the incentives right for encouraging environmental and fiscal responsibility

And here's a bit more from Salon:

The Bundys have been up in arms about where their cattle can and can’t roam, and their father, Cliven, owes more than $1 million in grazing fees. And the Hammonds are being punished for setting fire to public land. If you live in some other part of the country—in, say, a bustling East Coast city—what do ranching restrictions and arson have to do with you? The short answer: The land use regulations that the occupiers of the Malheur Refuge are fighting go far beyond where cattle can roam. How we use our land determines what comes out of it in the form of extracted resources, which then affects so much else, from what kind of air we breathe to how many earthquakes we experience–not to mention our changing climate. It would not be a stretch to say that caring about land use means caring about the fate of our planet.

 

In his “Wilderness Letter,” Wallace Stegner wrote that we need to preserve wilderness “even if we never once in ten years set foot in it.” Wild lands, according to Stegner, are important “simply as an idea.” But land use is about much more than what land we preserve as wilderness, or even what land we set aside for recreation and enjoyment. While wilderness is indeed valuable, there is plenty of non-wilderness public land whose fate matters just as much.

 

The Sagebrush Rebels argue that this federal land should’ve belonged to the states to begin with, according to a clause under the Doctrine of the Equality of States, which says new states enter the union “on an equal footing with the original States in all respects whatever.” Several Western states were required to disclaim their sovereignty over unappropriated lands when they became states, and the Sagebrush Rebels have never gotten over it. This is why they continue to demand the “return” of federal land to the states—though that would necessitate the land once having belonged to the states, and it never really did.

Ok, so Bundy, like his father, has become something of a folk hero among states' rights advocates and he's essentially hijacked the Hammond brush fire case and transformed it into a justification for the armed occupation of a federal building. 

Of course it's probably occurred to Bundy - if not to every member of the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom - that the US government couldn't legislate its way out of a wet paper bag let alone fruitfully revisit a grand debate on land use and state's rights. That is, Washington is mired in partisan bickering that's created the worst Congressional gridlock in recent memory which means that even if someone cared to address Bundy's concerns, they couldn't. 

But Bundy is apparently ready to wait around in the woods until something happens. "There is a time to go home. We recognize that. We don't feel it's quite time yet," he said on Wednesday. "We feel like we need to make sure that the Hammonds are out of prison, or well on their way. We need to make sure that there is some teeth in these land transfers, and also that those who have committed crimes ... those are exposed as well."

In the meantime, Reuters got an inside look at life inside occupied bird sanctuary. Here are some excerpts from their account:

The doorknob rattled. Two of the men occupying a federal biologist's office in a stand-off over land rights hopped from their chairs and swung rifles toward the locked door.

 

There was no knock - the established procedure for gaining entry to the nerve center of the siege mounted by brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy at this eastern Oregon nature center.

 

The Bundys’ body guard stood in silent alert but heard no voices from the snowy darkness outside.

 

"Should we approach the door or not?" Ryan asked, creeping toward a window.

 

On Tuesday, for the first time, they allowed two reporters to join them inside their refuge for a night marked by long discussions and moments of hair-trigger tension.

 

As the two Reuters’ reporters arrived just after nightfall, the occupiers were moving into a state of high alert. The groups’ head of security, a man known as Buddha, had been out of touch since driving off-site hours earlier. Amid efforts to locate him, the Bundys talked at length about what had brought them into this wilderness--and what it would take for them to leave.

 

"When we can say, 'OK, now we can go home,' would be when the people of Harney County are secure enough and confident enough that they can continue to manage their own land and their own rights and resources without our aid, " Ryan Bundy said. "And we intend to turn this facility into a facility that will aid that process."

 

The brothers have taken over the cozy and cluttered office of Linda Sue Beck, a biologist and civil servant they have come to view as a symbol the federal government. They said they would allow Beck to come to gather her personal belongings. But they don’t want her to return to work.

 

“She’s not here working for the people,” declared Ryan Bundy, the more outspoken of the brothers. “She’s not benefitting America. She’s part of what’s destroying America.”

Yes, Linda is "part of what's destroying America." Behold, the face of government oppression:

And while we doubt that Linda will be stopping by to "gather her personal belongings," Bundy says the group is expecting visitors soon. On Tuesday Bundy said that based on information he received from an unnamed source, the FBI has obtained five arrest warrants, and is "gathering their equipment and their goons" at a local high school. "They were planning on coming in and raiding the refuge," he added. 

As Reuters goes on to note, there are times when the group questions themselves. “When is it enough to put yourself and other people’s lives on the line? Is it justified? Maybe in the end we’ll look at each other and say, ‘What are we doing?’” 

Yes, "maybe." But until then, many of the men suggest that if push comes to shove, they're prepared to die for Bundy and his cause. On that note, we'll close with a quote from Wes Kjar, a 31-year-old oil rig worker who's convinced the FBI is set to storm the building:

“I’m not saying I want to die. I want to surrender. But I want to surrender on the right terms.”

 

 

 

The full clip is below:

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Thu, 01/07/2016 - 21:34 | 7015016 Econolingus
Econolingus's picture

Are you saying the United States can't own territories?  Unless is for the purpose of building a magazine?  Guess it's time to give the Louisiana Purchase back to France...

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 21:44 | 7015042 Econolingus
Econolingus's picture

!

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 22:26 | 7015220 Abaco
Abaco's picture

Territories are not states.

Fri, 01/08/2016 - 11:32 | 7017326 Econolingus
Econolingus's picture

You have a truly penetrating mastery of the obvious.

But the previous poster's point was that the Federal Government cannot LAND (with the four exceptions he cites).  Given that Jefferson was a signatory to the Constitution and president when the Louisiana Purchase was consummated, it is obvious on the face of historical events that the Federal Government is allowed to own pretty much however much land it wants, and has historically owned more than it does today.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 19:10 | 7014300 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Also see:

While we do not undertake to say that Congress has the unlimited power to legislate against nuisances within a State, which it would have within a Territory, we do not think the admission of a Territory as a State deprives it of the power of legislating for the protection of the public lands, though it may thereby involve the exercise of what is ordinarily known as the police power, so long as such power is directed solely to its own protection. A different rule would place the public domain of the United States completely at the mercy of state legislation.  

Camfield v. United States (1897). 

Further, in 1911, the Supreme Court Light v. United States upheld the control over large tracts of land such as national forests, noting that such land was "held in trust for the people of the whole country," and that Congress had jurisdiction to prescrive how such trusts would be administered.  

Specifically, the Court said:  "Congress has power to set apart portions of the public domain and establish them as forest reserves and to prohibit the grazing of cattle thereon or to permit it subject to rules and regulations."

and

"Fence laws may condone trespasses by straying cattle where the laws have not been complied with, but they do not authorize wanton or willful trespass, nor do they afford immunity to those willfully turning cattle loose under circumstances showing that they were intended to graze upon the lands of another."

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 19:11 | 7014311 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

The Federal Reserve and China own it all anyhow, so the point is relatively moot......

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 19:24 | 7014372 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

The Court has said a lot of stupid things, none of which override the clear language of the Constitution. 

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 19:38 | 7014454 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Actually, it's all that "stupid shit" that the courts say that is going to get you into big trouble if you ignore it.  

See my post below about choices when you disagree with the courts.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 20:34 | 7014702 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Well be afraid then. Be very afraid.

Fri, 01/08/2016 - 01:04 | 7015612 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

It's not about being afraid, it's about picking your battles.  Are you planning on heading out to Oregon to support these guys with your life?  

If the tree of liberty is going to get fertilized with my blood, it's certainly going to be for something a little more well thought out and important than a stunt like this.  

If you disagree and want to join these guys, I'm sure they'll welcome the company.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 19:27 | 7014396 skipjack
skipjack's picture

Do you understand what the term "enumerated powers" means, and how it applies to the Feral Government ?

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 19:41 | 7014477 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Yes.  See my next responsive post above.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 20:20 | 7014621 slyhill
slyhill's picture

did you see the South Park episode about protests? media and cops outnumber the protestors 100 to 1. what would happen here if everyone just went home?

Fri, 01/08/2016 - 10:06 | 7016780 my_nym
my_nym's picture

Unfortunately if they were all burned to death that still wouldn't start it.

 

Look at the minds of European Americans and Europeans in general as they're reduced to a minority in all the countries that their forefather died for.  Died for.  Their minds have already been conquered by a foreign tribe that fears and loaths them with a passion.  So while they can be incited to wars for "national" security against foreign tribes based on various pretexts and lies emanating from the tribe that hates their guts based on the fear/xenophobia/nativism/tribalism that is continually projected onto people of European descent... they can't actually defend their NATION(al) security within their own countries.

 

These are countries and nations that their forefathers DIED FOR.  Yet, they have generally been convinced based on TV shows and movies created by a hostile group that fears and loathes their "might be Nazi racist" guts forever to try to diversify themselves out of existence.  This is leading to and creating the greatest form of genocide that has ever taken place in the history of mankind.  Soft and Huxleyan for now.  But when BLM/black lives matter is the diversity at the BLM ordering that these ranchers of a different ethnic group convicted of "arson" and "terrorism" be burned alive for protesting, then this whole process created by foreign groups full of hatred for "cowboys"/whites will begin to be revealed as a harder form of genocide too.  It already is.  Many already want them dead.  Many already think that these men should be killed because according to the way Jewish hate groups and media have incited "minority" perceptions, white men are killing them.  As this process continues, we're one step from Illya Ehrenberger type of anti-white propaganda like:  "Kill, kill, kill... rape their women." emerging.     

 

 

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 20:03 | 7014543 Down to Earth T...
Down to Earth Thinking's picture

I posted this on another site this AM. It is as up to date as you are gonna get I imagine and gives all the datails and underlying issues as they have happened. Lots of excellent info and facts. Last Friday Oath Keepors issued stand down orders and explained their position for all to see and several important emails after that . All included and an excellent article and other resources as well as a petittion to sign to the gov !

"The stand down order came out last Friday for Oath Keepers and since 3 other emails have arrived to clarify their positions. I agree with all of them. No doubt the underlying issues of the Hammond's getting seriously hosed by the fed agencies is a valid issue. But we must choose our battles wisely that can be won in the public arena as well ? This one has some serious issues stacked against it from the get go, The fact that the victims, the Hammond's have not asked for any help or protest or anything else defines the situation clearly. Below is an article that tells the entire story with many links for the background and underlying issues. Also links to the emails from Oath Keepers and an excellent video everybody should watch and a petition for Hammond's to sign ! This will bring all up to speed on the issue as much as possible. And yes lets all pray for a reasonable and uneventful end to this scenario and that is still very possible and likely being discussed as we speak ! "

http://theconservativetreehous...

https://www.oathkeepers.org/th...

https://www.oathkeepers.org/ur...

https://www.oathkeepers.org/a-...

https://youtu.be/T424sWq1SkE

 

https://petitions.whitehouse.g...

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 20:28 | 7014671 Down to Earth T...
Down to Earth Thinking's picture

I have been told the FBI is on hand with 5 arrest warrants and the sheriiff is now having a meeting with Bundy and crew. they are softening their positions. It seems some kind of surrender negotiation is starting. I also have a live feed from the compound as as soon as it comes back up I will post it. It was working all day and went down about an hour ago , likely due to cold weather. It is pretty damn cold down the road in Burns .

I urge everyone to sign the petition to release the Hammonds. But realize this seige has a few too many flaws built in. Most of you do not have all the info so please read above completely, be patient and keep your powder dry before flying off the handle or being irrational. The last thing that should happen is for anybody to play into BHO and crews hands so they can make an issue given his recent anti-gun speech. It is critical that we choose our battles wisely going forward, but past time to nut up on such events. Many good points will stil be made if Ammon and crew surrender at this juncture and still claim the high ground position.      

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 20:47 | 7014769 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Acting or not acting out of fear of Obummer's unConstitutional firearms edicts is a bullshit argument. Re. The Hammonds are too beat down to participate - the double jeopardy aspect of their sentencing is a threat to every free American. Remember, the Hammonds gave first right of refusal on any future sale to the Feds to get the original sentence for a make-believe crime. Is that consession still in effect?

I hope it all ends peacefully as well, but I admire the patriots for their courage to try to set things right.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 21:02 | 7014859 Down to Earth T...
Down to Earth Thinking's picture

here is the live link from today. It is down now but said to resume. Pete Santilly had it up and apparently there is a weather issue

https://youtu.be/yvpqCo-hT30      I will follow up on it 

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 21:58 | 7015077 Down to Earth T...
Down to Earth Thinking's picture

Oregon governor speaks This miserable wench just chimed in and made a stupid statement that may not be a good sign ? 

http://www.localnews8.com/news/oregon-governor-tells-armed-protesters-to...

this is the waste of skin that replaced John Kitzhader recently when he and his girl friend got caught with their fingers in the cookie jar of the Oregon Health plan ? and nobody went to jail or was prosecuted ? John resigned in humiliation and they both dissapeared just like Corzine did ?  I used to date one of Johns girl friends in Roseburg and he was a real turd back then as well. Had enough of democrat scams ? 

 

Here is a good speech by G Walden on the issue and matter yesterday. he got most of the way there , but held back a bit ?

http://republicbroadcasting.org/news/oregon-militants-walden-takes-blm-to-woodshed-transcript/ 

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 21:05 | 7014876 Down to Earth T...
Down to Earth Thinking's picture

see the most up to date info on my comments on page 2, the straight skinny from the get go ! 

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:23 | 7013762 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Molon Labe - If the FBI want them, make the bastards come and take em.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 18:04 | 7013999 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Just sayin... If it were me, and I planned to go out in sytle, I'd take as many with me as possible.  And I'd make sure that the whole world would see the footage, that would be streaming (delayed) to offshore servers (Wikileaks).

In which case, I'd plan to defend or escape the premises better than what we're seeing.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 18:15 | 7014055 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

You are seeing little to nothing.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 20:33 | 7014695 Down to Earth T...
Down to Earth Thinking's picture

There has been a flurry of activity , engagement on many levels and info since last Friday. It should not be any surprise to anybody PRAVDA/MSM is not reporting any of it correctly. 

I think it will end soon peacefully. I certainly hope so for many reasons.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 18:18 | 7014070 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Reminds me of one of my fav novels of late:   Freedom by Daniel Suarez

 

Unleash the Daemon!!!

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 21:03 | 7014870 Down to Earth T...
Down to Earth Thinking's picture

they have never intended to go out in style or anything close to such ? 

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:25 | 7013768 skinwalker
skinwalker's picture

I wonder if there's someone in a nearby town I can drop ship supplies to for delivery. 

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:50 | 7013923 KesselRunin12Parsecs
KesselRunin12Parsecs's picture

Open up a Little Caesars 'Hot & Ready' express & they'll all get back on the grid faster than you can say 'pepperoni'

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 20:39 | 7014717 Down to Earth T...
Down to Earth Thinking's picture

@ Skin walker,  yes me . lets see what happens first in the next 24 hours ? I think it will end soon ? see my other comments to get fully up to speed and I will be putting up the live link as soon as it is functional again.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:24 | 7013769 kerfuffled
kerfuffled's picture

we dont need no Reuters interpreted second hand shit reporting. Be ashamed of yourself ZH.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:37 | 7013842 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

He has near zero support from anyone in the Liberty movement. In fact he is making a mockery of it with this little stunt.....

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:55 | 7013951 greenskeeper carl
greenskeeper carl's picture

thats a fact. I haven't heard much of any support for this in any of the sites i go to except for in the comment section. But people keep saying things that don't make sense - that these people should just walk out of the building and go home. you see that everywhere. That isn't going to happen. They are going to prison, all of them, probably for a long time. The government will make a huge deal out of prosecuting this. They will throw the book at them.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 18:28 | 7014120 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

This article says the states didn't have possession of those lands. This implies the Federal Government has the right to what ever they say they do. The Fact is that State was once a Territory which the US Gov. annexed. The Federal Government was supposed to turn over the land of the Territories to the States when they were admitted to the Union.The Federal Government is not supposed to have any  sovereign territory in the States unless the States cede it by conditional contract

From what I understand even though Alaska and Hawaii are called States, instead of those states being required to be Republics with the same limits on government as the American Constitution they do not! They are in essence using the 14th Amendment to the American Constitution which is the same as all Federal Territories. The people in those states are subjects of the government, meaning subservient. In the American Constitution the Government is subservient to the people.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 18:00 | 7013974 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

So he wants this to be a State issue?

What city in oregon is this demented child from?

Or is just trying to catch up with his pappy?  Make him president; we seem to do that if you want to upstage your pappy.  

This is not the case....

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:40 | 7013856 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

They don't even get the part ZH wrote correct.  "Washington is mired in partisan bickering that's created the worst Congressional gridlock in recent memory"  That isn't partisan bickering, that's just part of the big show.  During Obama's term more damageing legislation has been passed than ever before.  ZH has had articles about most of it.  How could they forget so easily?

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:46 | 7013888 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I'll wait for tomorrow to find out about the pre-approved question Obama gets tonight about the standoff.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:24 | 7013771 SelfGov
SelfGov's picture

Pussies...

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:25 | 7013775 Thick Willy
Thick Willy's picture

Local issue blown out of proportion by the media and internet.  Shouldn't even be news outside of Oregon.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:27 | 7013786 trader1
trader1's picture

Just like that local issue outside Cologne train station.

 

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 19:43 | 7014490 franzpick
franzpick's picture

'Train depot violence'. ( O'linsky ).

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:33 | 7013807 kerfuffled
kerfuffled's picture

Dikke Willem, you see this wrongly, it's of symbolic significance, its a just cause and the militia should back them to prevent worse.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 20:36 | 7014714 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:27 | 7013776 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Can we just contribute to a fund to have Salon drone-bombed?  I've never heard such mind-numbingly ignorant drivel since a DNC convention.  Just hit their offices and their server farm, please? 

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:26 | 7013782 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

But the injun's say it is their land, and they want them to leave? Remember: In any confrontation, ALWAYS CLAIM THE HIGH GROUND THROUGH VICTIMIZATION! It is kryptonite to straight white males.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:29 | 7013793 stant
stant's picture

Better leave them alone and let it play out. .Govs got enough self inflicted problems . Another Waco is not going to be tolerated , or go un punished. IMHO

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:35 | 7013823 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

Probably do another Waco-Randy Weaver on them.

Curious, wasn't it, how the Liberals didn't seem to mind when Reno-Clinton firebombed the Branch Davididians? Rather than wait them out or negotiate. 

But they have All the time in the world for ISIS

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 17:44 | 7013871 skinwalker
skinwalker's picture

Many people are unable to accept, simultaneously, that these two concepts were equally valid: David Koresh was a madman and the ATF was a bunch of savages. Most people can only focus on one. 

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 18:08 | 7014023 Quasi
Quasi's picture

Wrong. Plenty of people accept both. The issue is that even though he was a madman he and the children in the compound didn't deserve to be slaughtered because of it.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 19:25 | 7014380 August
August's picture

Just remember: Janet Reno accepted full responisibilty, so it's all OK.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 20:21 | 7014620 reinhardt
reinhardt's picture

ya'll have NO idea what you are talking about when it comes to the subject of reno and waco

r

https://enronnext101.wordpress.com/

let's start with: WHO was the "acting" attorney general?

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