America At The End Of All Hypotheticals

Tyler Durden's picture

Authored by Ken White via PopeHat.com,

Discussions of free speech in America are usually dominated by hypotheticals — or by slippery slope arguments, if you prefer.

The First Amendment unquestionably and broadly protects what we call "hate speech." If you point that out, you get hypotheticals in return. "Really? So, the day that Nazis march the streets, armed, carrying the swastika flag, sieg-heiling, calling out abuse of Jews and blacks, some of their number assaulting and even killing people, you'll still defend their right to speak?" That literal parade of horribles is invoked when free speech defenders talk about anything from bigot college kids acting out to Alt-Right racism online.

We free speech defenders are just as quick with hypotheticals; it's built into our worldview. "Really? So you'd give the state the power to choose what speech is acceptable and what speech isn't, and use its vast power to punish the difference? You're comfortable giving it that power, even though some day that state might be controlled by an implacable enemy of everything you believe in, a tyrant who overtly relishes the power to punish people who think like you do, encouraged by supporters who hate you?" The unprincipled-tyrant-that-could-be is a staple of First Amendment rhetoric.

Hypotheticals - called slippery slopes when you're dismissing them - are supposed to require some imagination, are supposed to involve some projection about how current events could deteriorate to an ugly future scenario. How will it change our thinking when that ugly future is now?

Last weekend the hypotheticals about how far the Alt-Right might go collapsed into a grim reality. Literal Nazis marched the streets of an American city, calling out Jews and blacks and gays, wielding everything from torches to clubs and shields to rifles, offering Nazi slogans and Nazi salutes. Some of their number attacked counter-protesters, and one of them murdered a counter-protester and attempted to murder many others. This is the "what if" and "how far" that critics of vigorous free speech policies pose to us as a society.

So, too, has the malevolent government we fear come to pass. We have a President elected on a platform of denouncing the press, "investigating" protest movements, and "opening up" libel laws (however little he can actually do so). We have an administration and its powerful, megaphone-equipped sycophants who define entire diverse protest groups — Black Lives Matter, as one example — by the violent actions or rhetoric of a tiny fraction of their members, and suggest that the state should treat the whole based on that part. (This, ironically, is exactly what the Nazis are now complaining that people are doing.) Rhetoric from officials and their media supporters about protest groups is full of accusations of incitement of crime and group criminality and conspiracy. Across the country, conservative legislators rush to craft statutes to protect people who run over protesters with cars. The NRA, one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the country, is putting out chillingly totalitarian propaganda videos to gun owners portraying protest against the regime as uniformly violent and criticism of the President as "inciting" that violence, and exhorting them to defend themselves and the regime from the violent protesters and their inciters. And we have a President who seems to respect no American norms.

What do we do when we near the bottom of the slippery slope?

These are hard times. Our values should be our beacons to lead us through them. Those values include due process, the rule of law and equality of all people before it, and freedom of speech and worship.

The Nazis, whether armed with rifles or clownishly clad in khakis, stand against our values - they stand for the proposition that some of us are less American than others by birth, and that America must be "preserved" to the tastes of a particular narrow ethnic prejudice. Nazis attacking and threatening our fellow Americans threaten not just their immediate targets but the foundations of everything we've built. Decent Americans should speak, organize, and lead against them. This is the end of another classic hypothetical — what would you do if America's most shameful ancient wrongs were resurgent? What would you do if the Nazis started marching again?

But you cannot destroy a value in order to save it. Nazis — like terrorists — hope that we will abandon principles and fundamentally change who we are out of fear. Assault is assault, threats are threats, murder is murder, and all of them should be vigorously investigated and prosecuted. The allowance for self-defense by those threatened by Nazis should reasonably be generous. But despicable speech is protected by the First Amendment, and should remain so. Our present circumstances show why it is sheer terrified madness to entrust a broad power to prevent or punish speech upon a fickle state. We've flirted with that madness of abandoning rights in pursuit of safety for our nation's whole life. The flirtation has turned sordid and degrading during the War on Crime and frankly self-destructive after 9/11. It would be philosophical suicide to hasten it now by giving a government — a visibly terrible and amoral government — the power to regulate speech.

This is the final hypothetical come to pass: if the state asked you to give up freedoms in exchange for a dubious promise it would make you safer, would you do it? Would you convince yourself that the state would only use the power against Them, and not you?

We're a long way from perfect. But we are better than this place we find ourselves. We can climb out of it.

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Cognitive Dissonance's picture

It's all fun and games until someone's rights are taken away.

Looney's picture

 

Our values should be our beacons to lead us through them

Values? This word is used to enslave all of us, black AND white, and to fuck up countries that don’t agree with Washington’s policies.

Does anybody in DC live by those “values”?

Looney

Mr Poopra's picture

The MSM are going full speed ahead with this idiotic race diversion.  Makes me wonder what is really coming that they want everyone not to know about.

Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

Libertarian bloggers are going full retard as well.

If you take race out of this discussion you achieve nothing.

VWAndy's picture

They are race baiting their way to a one world government.

Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

BS. Race is the one thing no one wants to talk about so it's obviously an issue not being properly addressed.

VWAndy's picture

Race baiting has been the DNC answer for every question for the last eight years. Not that it was ever really addressed. Its used more like a club.

Never One Roach's picture

CNN advocates this leftie violence and mayhem encouraging this criminal behavior. I wonder how they would feel if someone beats them up in the name of some cause? What would sweet Anderson Cooper say if someone bunched him in his purdy nose? How about Kimmel? How would he enjoy some violence as he walked along the street with his wife?

 

Seems CNN and these media people enjoy that sort of thing.

 

However, CNN has a long history of encouraging violence if I remember they were gung-ho supporting Obama's bombing wedding parties and hospitals soaking the middle east with innocent blood. So maybe it's simply their ideology?

VWAndy's picture

Violence is really the only solid part of the governments game. Its not like they could answer a flipping question well?

Son of Thor's picture

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Ben Tornilloed's picture

In Cooper's case you mean husband.

Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

Few White people wanted to talk about race (until now). That's why they've done poorly combating identity politics (to begin with) which has been around much longer than 8 years.

armageddon addahere's picture

Jesus Christ. When have white people ever stopped talking about race, any time in the last 75 years?

Sean7k's picture

In 63 years, the number of times white people have discussed race with me are too small to remember.

Occasionally, if it is brought up by race incidents, but in general, I've rarely known anyone who cares.

Now, politicians, actors, people of race- they bring it up ad nauseum. Which leads me to believe it is merely to get people worked up.

As for this author, I love how people are using assumption arguments regarding Nazis. Universally evil and to be hated without exception. As if stereotyping of races would past muster in this regard?

From what I have studied, there were terrible nazis and good nazis. Many of these people were compassionate, honorable and loving. We never talk about the millions of germans killed in allied war camps by gassing or the bombing of Dresden ( who does that?). We never hear the stories of terrible torture carried out by allied troops and especially the Soviets.

I try to keep my prejudices simple: I don't care for assholes. They are a terrible race of psychopaths, usually found in positions of power- government, banking, religion and the military.

Every person is a bundle of possibilities, it is unfortunate we fail to bring out the best in each other. Those possibilities exist as well, how about we celebrate those?

strickler's picture

I have always been too busy working in the real world with people of all races and many nationalities to bother with a stupid race discussions.  Let's get the job done, get a beer, and go home to our families.

If you don't get the job done or are a pain in my ass, then I might have a little hate for you, but it is not your race that got the hate, it was your stupid actions that earned that for you.

Big Creek Rising's picture

 and when have Republitards ever rejected a race-based handout?  Affirmative action/minority and woman owned business set aside were established in almost 50 years ago to make up for the discrimation of previous decades, yet the handouts will never end.

How could a minority owned IT firm (owned by, say, a middle eastern family named Awan) have been discriminated against when their industry did not exist prior to affirmative action laws? Yet minorities and women routinely get over 1/3 of gov contracts awarded for biology rather than merit.

RINOs abandon principles and common sense because they are terrified of being called racists, but they get called racists anyway.

Lindsey Graham squats to pee.

 

UselessEater's picture

Few White people wanted to talk about race (until now).

Actually the opposite. Most white people have comfortably condemned whites in other countries. The vitriol against white Rhodesians, the justification of black communist crimes and terror and horrendous torture against whites in Angola, Southern Rhodesia...then South Africa.

The whites in other nations put sanctions on these (my) whites, armed the black commies and you were really rude to live amongst when we had to flee our home lands.

White people in the so called justifiably-white nations are now being cornered and so have to deal with their own front door step. You have to really consider the next step. Whites no longer have anywhere safe to flee - only jews have that option in fully funded by goy Israel.

 

Mazzy's picture

We've done a poor job using THEIR terminology. 

How about:

  • Muslim Supremacists
  • Black Nationalists
  • Radical Neo Feminists

Once we learn to utilize their language it will sap a lot of the mystique and power away from them.  Start using incredibly vague terms like "intersectionalism", "corporate power heirarchy", etc.

Another idea is to TEACH.  Teach teenagers today what property rights are, teach them about working hard, about ownership.  They will then teach others their age.  The universities are a cancer and are to be avoided.  Stop feeding the beast and help your kids or other relatives find real careers and/or start businesses.  Stop feeding "charities" and "non-profits" and other destabilizing nonsense that allow the beast to operate in attack mode.

Big Creek Rising's picture

HA!  As if

Most US politicians can barely say "radical Islamic terrorist", they'll never call a spade a spade (so to speak) and call any African American radical black nationalist.

VWAndy's picture

Shit ya we want to talk about racism. Being the ones on the short end of the shtick.

When a black person makes a coment its diversity. If a white person said the same thing its racist.

Black pride=good
White pride=bad

HRH Feant2's picture

When are we not talking about race? I watched CNN for my daily two minutes of hate and a nigger gal being interviewed actually claimed that Nazis were killing lil black chilluns. WTF? I laugh at MSM propoganda but people are being whipped into a frenzy by it. This mass hysteria is scarier, to me, than some white kids that are playing Nazi!

SixIsNinE's picture

we are far down the slippery slip-n-slide folks. 

check this out : yesterday the actress Jennifer Lawrence is promoted Bigly & "so proud" of the young woman - you can GET DRUNK with her if you out "white supremacists".  Oh - she ends her article stating a quote from a holo survivor.   (kinda like Madonna offering blowjobs if you voted for the Hitlery)

#2 - Colin Kaepernick - the QB who took to knee @ games is free agent and has not been offered a job - comments very racial of course

#3  - the Barcelona event -  coincidence that Barcelona, part of Catalan, is trying to secede from Spain ?  

#4 - Spanish Rabbi in the news telling EU Joos to move to Israel, muslim invaders coming and they won't have to deal with that in Israel

#5 - This made my head spin - today the Colorado State University is celebrating the opening game of the New Stadium ! next Saturday and guess what?  that's right kiddies,  for women and men - NO bags.  NO purses.  NO camera cases.  You want to bring something into the New Ball Stadium ?  You can bring it in a clear plastic bag 12" x 12" x 6".  That's it folks!    

YOU DO NOT live in a FREE country.  

additionally - the lib cities websites have been "public shaming" individuals if they attended the Virginia event, especially loudly if the individual was fired.  In your face saying that if you publicly support USA as a nation, and are a Non-Joo white, we will try to get you fired and will publicly shame you for attending a event which supports USA nation -  you will be branded a "white suprmacist" and that's BAD.  see?  Now look at the good Joo-Convert Ivanka, see, she advised her dad to fire that stupid Goy Bannon - Good on Her !

we're seeing what Zappa said about after the illusion was done they will close the curtains .... remember, "they" are a tiny group of sycophants and psychopaths - they want us to forget their crimes and are using all psychological operations they can muster to narcotize the sheeple and keep them distracted and divided.  

 

silvercity's picture

YOU DO NOT live in a FREE country

In every square inch of the USA any cop can stop any person at anytime and steal their money! Any cop, any person, any time. Not one person in the USA has any rights at all. None.

Liberty does not exist in the USA. What we do have in the USA that compensates for lack of liberty is money. Lots and lots of money. The USA is still filthy fucking rich.

Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

And it won't end until White people stand up for once in their lives and say "Yeah we're White. Yeah we're proud. Get the fuck over it or get the fuck out."

White people trying to dance around the race issue will only make their whining worse.

Mazzy's picture

Or in other, very well spoken words:

"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children"

shovelhead's picture

I find the term "White supremicist" to be redundant.

JRobby's picture

That is not fake news in any way shape or form

Krink26's picture

A huge part of that is because when you have a conversation with a leftist and you make a legitimate point they call you racist. That is not a conversation, or at least a fair and rational conversation. Hillary collapsed and the secret service put her in a van, you question it - you're a misogynist. You bring up points about ILLEGAL immigration - you're racist. You bring up gun violence associated with BLM rallies - you're racist. You bring up that AntiFA had clubs and soda cans filled with cement AFTER showing a propensity for violence in Berkeley, Portland and DC - YOU'RE A FREAKING NAZI!?!?!?!  I'm an independent that overwhelming voted for Dems because of hated spewed by the right. However, over the past few years I have witnessed more hatred, bigotry and prejudice coming from the left in a falsely moralistic tone that is being sanctioned than I ever saw come from the right. Racism is not being discussed, to the detriment of many honest and rational minorities, because the left believes it owns the monopoly on the conversation. That is not how things get better.

FixItAgainTony's picture

The American left has discovered fundamentalism. And like Puritans with their witch hunts, when they get spooked, gibbering children are going to get people burned.

The center and right have no political leadership, advocates, or organization. We have no plan, counter-plan, or strategy. We are just normal folks who are getting bent over by neo-feudal globalists posing as an intellectual-yet-idiot FreeShitArmy. That cabal will engineer a horror show of greater brutality and starvation than Mao could have imagined.

Our news sources will be electronically disappeared on both the sending and receiving sides by internet providers deputized to selectively enforce vague hate-speech statutes. A minor guerrilla war of infrastructure sabotage will drag on for decades but that globalist boot will keep stamping a human face forever.

Pray for the black plague, it will be your only chance of liberation.

ClassicCommodity's picture

Or you could... you know.. show some respect towards other races instead of relishing in their suffering?

VWAndy's picture

Just wondering how much blame you would place on the other races for not cleaning their own house first? I noticed the Asians don't blame others for all their woes.
An just where do you get off sayin I relish in others suffering? That some leap!
And another thing. You want respect? Go earn it!

Blue Steel 309's picture

Libertarian is always full retard, because libertarian is based on Nirvana Fallacy.

chubbar's picture

Not really sure who the author is calling Nazi? Is it the antifa or the white supremacists in that example? Regardless, he starts with some bad information and ends up with nonsense.

First, I don't give a shit who marches or what issues they are shouting about. Neither of those actions hurt me. The white supremacists were forced into the arms of the antifa, it doesn't matter who swung first, the WS had the permit the Antifa did not. The police were the real culprits anyway, but no one is talking about that.

The bottom line is this. Let anyone apply for a permit to assemble and let them do so freely and without threat of violence from anti-whatever. This allows for debate and for steam to be blown. This idea of trying to beat down someone because they don't think or believe the same things you do is retarded. Grow the fuck up.

Mazzy's picture

I remember when Westboro Baptist flew in from Kansas (or wherever they're located) to hold a protest in the town I was living in at the time.  No one threw rocks at them or threatened them with violence. 

Plenty of people DID point and laugh however. The Westboros were some nutbags (my opinion), but they had their views and the right to voice them.

There were four or perhaps five of them, about 8 sheriff's deputies guarding the Westboro people, and 100 counter-protesters on the other side of the 4 lane highway + wide median strip.  No one crossed the road.  Plenty of signs were held and flags were waived.  That is how you express yourself.

Of course that was about 9 years ago and the county was still somewhat recognizable back then.

SixIsNinE's picture

wouldn't you surmise then that the Westboro group was paid provocateurs?  

nobody would get the press coverage they did unless it was part of the script.  

paid provocateurs. 

 

It's been many years since it was admitted that 75% of stories in papers (now fakestream websites) are paid infotainment.

They have license to make it up as they want ... 

effendi's picture

No, you don't need a permit to assemble. No, you don't need to apply for a permit to assemble. Either implies assembly is a privelage granted by the State and not a natural (and constitutionally protected) right. You are correct that the OP was screwed up in who he was calling Nazi. At this stage it isn't even certain that the dead woman was murdered as the driver was panicking as his car was being attacked by an angry violent mob.

FixItAgainTony's picture

A constitutionally correct sentiment but your local govt bureaucrat will say it needs to be notified so it can get an EMT on site, have the popo direct traffic, staff riot squads, requisition a paddy wagon, deploy SWAT on overwatch, maybe ready a national guard unit, of course approve overtime, and/or etc.

That notification you fill out is called a permit and if you write in a start time like 0200 hrs, or it coincides with another applicant's event, it gets bounced back to you.

If somebody gets injured at your assembly, then the city gets sued by an enterprising lawyer. Any clear evidence of govt negligence, such as inadequate preparation, generally perks up the sleepy jury and leaves the mayor stuck with a big taxpayer funded settlement. Next thing you know, the mayor is screaming at said govt bureaucrat because the mayor's "supporters" had other ideas on how to spend that money.

ByTheCross's picture

Bear in mind that it is not quite so simple as 'the plebs vs (the organs of) the state'.

There are diversions, distractions, and deceptions at each layer of the hierarchy (each presuming to be at the top, each contemptuous of those below).

It's Machiavelli in 3D.

Ultimately, only the true upper echelon is fully illuminated as to what's really afoot.

 

 

Big Creek Rising's picture

Machiavelli had VD?

oh, nevermind

1033eruth's picture

More control and its going to be the first amendment that will be affected.  Hate speech is going to be a crime.  We've already got a template for some of that in Europe.  Also its an attempt to set up the presidency for another Democrat criminal to become president.  There might be other useful purposes for this agenda on top of dividing the country and a diversion from hitlerys crimes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/world/europe/germany-36-accused-of-ha...

monk27's picture

... What do we do when we near the bottom of the slippery slope?

What "bottom" is this guy talking about ? We're clearly well beyond the peak of the hill of our civilization, but I'm afraid our slide has just begun. We still have a long way down as the bottom is much deeper than most people around us could imagine...

Lumberjack's picture

Cog, but then who gets the special rights? I couldn't help but think of Whitey Bulger and the FBI when this news broke. I expect that Boston turned out too large for the paid informants to raise hell and were called off.

EXCLUSIVE: FBI Admits Federal Informants Linked to Deadly Charlottesville Riots; Unlikely To Face Charges

https://truepundit.com/exclusive-fbi-admits-federal-informants-linked-to...

FBI insiders said it is unlikely leaders of the radical groups that clashed in demonstrations turned deadly in Charlottesville, VA will face prosecution.

Why?

FBI said they have already identified several federal informants who participated in the mob-like riots over the weekend in Virginia. The FBI is also now working those sources to piece together the events from Charlottesville, sources said.

But FBI agents have deemed the newly-minted investigation dicey, having to navigate separate agreements with embedded intelligence assets while trying to pinpoint responsibility for the violence.

The FBI sources said it is unlikely an asset would be charged for stoking violence in Virginia if for instance that asset had or was providing valuable information on another domestic terrorism case.

“We wouldn’t do a solid informant for this,” one FBI insider said.

The word “do” here pertains to indict.

Federal law enforcement sources said that attitude would be different if the two Virginia State Police troopers who died were killed as part of the demonstrations. The troopers perished after they lost control of a State Police helicopter which was leaving Charlottesville, according to NTSB records.

Lumberjack's picture

Looking like Kessler might have been one of the assets..

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-20/leaked-chat-logs-reveal-white-s...

Remember he was an Occupy big wig and staunch Obama supporter. That's one of the informants IMHO. The others may be BATFE, DHS, CIA associates and their names appear in above article.

It may well be the Charlottesville event was in fact, an FBI ( or gov) creation after all.

GUS100CORRINA's picture

America At The End Of All Hypotheticals

My response: I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE CARTOON. Well done, well done!!

Tyler D ... Thanks for POSTING!!!

GUS100CORRINA's picture

I wonder if the MARXIST PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL LEFT would agree with my list below as a starting point? What do you think?

1. To secure the sanctity of human life by affirming the dignity of and right to life for the disabled, the ill, the aged, the poor, the disadvantaged, and for the unborn from the moment of conception. Every person is made in the image of God, and it is the responsibility and duty of all individuals and communities of faith to extend the hand of loving compassion to care forthose in poverty and distress.

2. To secure our national interest in the institution of marriage and family by embracing the union of one man and one woman as the sole form of legitimate marriage and the proper basis of family.

3. To secure the fundamental rights of parents to the care, custody, and control of their children regarding their upbringing and education.

4. To secure the free exercise of religion for all people, including the freedom to acknowledge God through our public institutions and other modes of public expression and the freedom of religious conscience without coercion by penalty or force of law.

5. To secure the moral dignity of each person, acknowledging that obscenity, pornography, and indecency debase our communities, harm our families, and undermine morality and respect. Therefore, we promote enactment and enforcement of laws to protect decency and morality.

6. To secure the right to own, possess and manage private property without arbitrary interference from government, while acknowledging the necessity of maintaining a proper and balanced care and stewardship of the environment and natural resources for the health and safety of our families.

7. To secure the individual right to own, possess, and use firearms as central to the preservation of peace and liberty.

8. To secure a system of checks and balances between the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches within both state and federal governments, so that no one branch – particularly the judiciary – usurps the authority of the other two, and to maintain the constitutional principles of federalism which divide power between the state and federal governments.

9. To secure our national sovereignty and domestic tranquility by maintaining a strong military; establishing and maintaining secure national borders; participating in international and diplomatic affairs without ceding authority to foreign powers that diminish or interfere with our unalienable rights; and being mindful of our history as a nation of immigrants, promoting immigration policies that observe the rule of law and are just, fair, swift, and foster national unity.

10. To secure a system of fair taxes that are not punitive against the institution of marriage or family and are not progressive in nature, and within a limited government framework, to encourage economic opportunity, free enterprise, and free market competition.

Juggernaut x2's picture

Democracy Endgame. I just put another ammo order in- .223, 9mm, 22lr.

Johnny Caine's picture

This is not Tyler Durden. We have been infiltrated! This preachy and gay af. This is not the originators. Who that has been here more than a year can't see this?!??

 

LibertarianMenace's picture

Who is ABC Media? Who are THEY, really?