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ABC Reports Tentative Debt Ceiling Deal Reached Between GOP And Obama
This could very well be another red herring like the NYT article from two weeks ago that proved to be a dud, but for what it's worth according to ABC's Jonathan Karl, the White House and the GOP have just reached a tentative deal as follows...
- Debt ceiling increase of up to $2.8 trillion
- Spending cuts of roughly $1 trillion
- Special committee to recommend cuts of $1.8 trillion (or whatever it takes to add up to the total of the debt ceiling increase)
- Committee must make recommendations before Thanksgiving recess
- If Congress does not approve those cuts by late December, automatic across-the-board cuts go into effect, including cuts to Defense and Medicare.
In other words, virtually the same as the Boehner deal in the actual cuts, which will likely be back-end loaded (we expect about $10-20 billion in 2012 cuts), but the Democrats get what they want in that it will not require a second debt ceiling hike before Obama's re-elecetion as $2.8 trillion should last well into 2013. As for "future cuts", well, that's easily what Congress is so very good at. Indefinite future cuts that is.
Some more recent details from the National Journal:
Here are the outlines of a debt-ceiling deal that congressional leaders and the Obama White House are firming up in preparation for a possible announcement as early as Sunday afternoon.
In many respects, the deal will, if approved by all parties, resemble the contours of a short-lived pact negotiated last weekend by House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. Obama rejected that deal, forcing Congress to wrestle with other inferior legislative options throughout the week.
Among the newest wrinkles, according to informed sources, is an agreement to extend the current $14.3 trillion debt ceiling very briefly to give the legislative process time to work without resorting to emergency, hurry-up measures.
President Obama has said he would only sign a short-term extension (days, not weeks) if it were linked to an extension of borrowing authority that lasts beyond the 2012 election.
According to sources, the Senate would use the military construction appropriations bill, one currently available for action, as the vehicle for the short-term extension. This element of the arrangement, like everything else, is subject to modification. But those close to the negotiations expect Congress to slow things down without jeopardizing the nation's full faith and credit. A debt extension of days would achieve that goal.
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That is yet to be matched by the rapture that is about to overtake gold.
Wording in the potential deal seems quite vague and open to interpretation. Both sides just agree to jack each other off and declare victory while nothing changes? Typical.
Actually no. The wording from the reporter is vague.
This very item is why there has been no agreement. Boehner, Cantor and Ryan (mostly Ryan) know what has to happen to have ironclad enforcement. In the past you have been right. Things were agreed to and no enforcement provisions were in legislation so cuts didn't happen.
Not so this time. It's a new world now.
Markets are going to sky on Monday when the "kick the can" deal ie announced.
Gold and silver will sell off as telegraphed already by the whipping in the XAU the last 2 days.
The debt ceiling extension until "after the election" was a dealbreaker for Obama.
Why is that?
So he can have time and room to launch my oft-predicted "Jobs and Stimulus Plan".
Which, when announced is going to crash the dollar completely and send stocks, gold, and silver into Outer Space.
As Rasputin sums it up:
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING has changed in the three-years, four months since the Bear Stearns implosion of March, 2008.
Instead, everything is the exact, same way it was prior to the so-called "Great Disintegration:
1. Same (or similar) Alpha Thugs and Pigmen in charge.
2. Same institutions still operating.
3. Same schemes, scams, and skullduggery taking place.
4. Same clueless sheeple taking part in #3 above.
...yet a few posters continue to cling to the outmoded, totally-discredited theory of:
"Any minute now...no, strike that...any NANO-SECOND now...the whole thing's gonna blow, we swear!!! Any nano-second. Really. No, REALLY!!!"
...LOL.
RoboMomoFader is high on the precious.
Is that something to be concerned about?
This chump has never been right about any short term swing trades. I'd fade this idiot and go short Monday for more panic selling later in the day/week.
His blathering about PMs is mildly disturbing and means we are probably close to a short term top.
There is no funding for a jobs plan.
There will be no funding for anything new. There will be less funding for things old.
2% SS tax cut stimulus and QE2 got 0.4% in Q1 of this year. This is going to eliminate that 2% cut, take another 20billion out of spending FY2012 and have no QE2 underway. Very hard to see how that translates into the vibrant GDP growth required to create $95 2011 S&P earnings on which equity levels depend.
It may be foolish of me, but I'll take the other side of that bet. This "jobs and stimulus bill" you refer to is not a bill but bull. Bills require funding, and the U.S. Congress is in no mood to fund any garbage such as what you're talking about.The American people aren't, either.
Every time the market levitates you crow about it and assign the reason for it to one thing or another, but everyone who's looked into the matter knows that quants are what drive the market higher into ever-deteriorating fundamentals. Everyone knows that an announced deal, no matter how bad, will likely drive the markets up over the short term. Friday's market action was perfectly representative of the fact that the quants drive the markets short-term and the quants could care less about fundamentals.
We all know there's money to be made in this stock or that. We all have charts that show the same things as you, but this really isn't a stock picking forum.
I remember you from the Capital Stool boards, when you called yourself Wyndsurf. You used to post dozens of pictures a week of new tilt-up warehouses being built in the California desert, of Masseratis parked outside Starbucks, of anorexic models you apparently hoped we'd think you were dating. For what? You were insufferable then (to the point that you were eventually banned from posting), and now you're a caricature. You are a destestable, amoral, juvenile hack. LOL at that. LOL here, LOL there, LOL everywhere.
But keep posting, Robo. We love to hate you. LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOOLLLLLLLLLLLL!
Dude, you don't get it. Monday starts the re-election campaign. Who gives a fuck about social security recipients? Who cares about Medicare D recipients? We will cut those benefits Tuesday in order to initiate the new stimulus. We have a president to elect. Free ride to Nov. 2012.
Exactly right.
even as you mock those who believe it's gonna blow you say (quoting your new buddy) it's gonna blow. must be terrible to be so broke that your only source of entertainment is making repeated posts at zh quoting folks who say what most of us already know, and then preen as if you have some sort of inside information that nobody is aware of.
Obama can't launch a spending plan because the House is controlled by Republicans. He will however instruct Bernanke to go ahead with his QE3 program which will create more false hope.
The politicians have lied to us so much and for so may years that I am sick of listening to them. What ever plan they come up with we all know its bogus. One man killed Kennedy? The gulf of tonkin incident, 2 airplanes took down 3 buildings in perfectly controlled demolitions? Pretty smart planes. We are in a summer of recovery? We estimate a 3.5% growth this year? The second Iraq war had nothing to do with Saddam trying to kill daddy Bush in 1993? It was for their freedom and the war on terror? Saddam did nothing to us as far as I know. We are in Libya to protect the civilians? Yea, right. We released 60 million barrels of oil from the strategic petroleum reserves for what? To lower the price? That plan worked as good as QE2. Are we in better shape now than we were 9 months ago? I did not have sexual relation with that woman? We have to stop believing their lies. This years deficit is what, 1.65 trillion dollars? An average of .1 trillion per year is a joke. That is why Boehner is always smiling. He knows it's all a joke also.
Nothing significant will happen except that the Debt ceiling will be increased and by thanks giving, we will all have forgotten about it.
This report is potential bullshit for several reasons:
- If you're a Senate Democrat, what is in this deal for you? Obama is working with the GOP supposedly, if you were Reid, would you be a little annoyed as to what they are developing which is not too different from some of the packages that have been voted down before. Hell, one Senator can filibuster it and fuck up the timing. Look at how long one senator fucked up Unemployment Compensation extension in 2010 (Sen. Bunning of Ky.).
- Where are the rich participating in the sharing of the burden? Does Obama look a little hypocritical here and attempting to appease the GOP who are trying to evade responsibility for all of this? This is all a ruse to isolate Reid and the Senate Dems as the ones who would cause a potential default, if they didn't play along with this potential charade.
- If Reid comes out and shoots this down on behalf of the Dems, like all the other stuff the other chamber has been shooting down, back to square one.
- I am always suspicious now of a single media outlet supposedly coming out with breaking news in this manner as a potential grab for ratings, in this case ABC News. As another recent example, Joe Walsh of Illinois, Tea Party leader in the House among several, was disparaged this past couple of days by a Democratic newspaper in CHicago, the Chicago Sun-Times, about his child support payments in a case that was years in progress. Why does shit like that get leaked now, however one's views on the Tea Party? That was clearly politically motivated, as this is also.
- I expect Reid and the Senate Dems to be the controlling factor here if this report is legitimate. If the price to avoid default is another totally raw deal for the middle class and the poor, and nothing against the rich, I would support the Dems filibustering this and stoking a default if need be to add pressure back. How do the rich share in the responsibility, they should not get a free ride again or actually benefit off the middle class once more.
It is inexcusable if Obama is doing this with the GOP but without leadership members of his own party there. Obama does not appropriate, Congress does, and Congress has the authority over the debt limit unless the 14th Amendment needs to get invoked to protect the country. A few days ago there's talk of impeaching Obama now they're collaborating with him without the Dems, what a fucked up town Washington DC is and has become.
this is a very revealing post, bk
this is about a bill to raise the debt ceiling
i can see from what you've written that you pay very close attention to many "facts" but it is simply NOT FACTUAL that if the debt ceiling isn't raised, default will necessarily happen
if the debt ceiling is not raised, the goobermint can't borrow any more money and slip the tab to us
apparently, many many people have somehow "learned" that if we stop piling up debt, we will default
that is absurd
default is not from "not enuf debt"
default is from too much debt
have you ever heard of someone who was without debt defaulting?
Slewie,
Please note I had also used language potential default also, not actual default. Default is a subjective term in many ways, depending on who is owed money but is not paid. The bondholders could feel they are made whole with their investments, yet Social Security payments could be deferred for NSF, as a bank would call a bounced check. Are we as a nation in default? Some would say yes, others no. The correct term is also insolvency in my view, insufficient resources to pay obligations.
The bond vigilantes, representing the NWO, rule. I am growing more convinced that the bondholders are among the most powerful group in the investment community today. Their common actions in Greece, Ireland and Portugal can send chills everywhere and they never ever take a haircut on their principal or lose on their interest earnings. It is the most sure thing in investments today if one thinks about it. Shareholders can be swept away, like in the GM bankruptcy, but they don't dare fuck with bondholders.
Back on topic, I had overlooked earlier that we are beholden to the financial cartel, they want us to be in this position. And since they control Congress, much of what we see in the media is smoke and mirrors. There are several potential solutions to this situation, the politicians somehow have a sick mentality to drag this out to the last minute. I frankly do not buy firm convictions and perspectives that we see in the MSM, as an example, we saw last year how fast they tried to jam in robo-signing legislation when that scandal first broke to make notaries good in 1 state good in all 50 states, and this was attempted quickly and quietly by Congress below the radar. The blogosphere caught this in time, and pressured Obama to veto when the public awareness was raised or he damn well would have supported the banksters bullshit. The banksters still rule, from Rotshchild on down, my spook is this whole thing is a huge red herring for some other BS the NWO are about to pull. Remember the press reports earlier in the week about the TBTF CEOs 'demanding' a solution to the debt crisit this weekend. Then Jonathan Karl comes out with this on Sat. night when all other initiatives on the board are officially shot down. If this is democracy in action, it is corrupted democracy. Banana republic is very applicable language when referring to the United States any more, I don't care how large our economy and military are.
don't blow that smoke up my ass, please.
here's what you wrote (Paste):
If the price to avoid default is another totally raw deal for the middle class and the poor, and nothing against the rich, I would support the Dems filibustering this and stoking a default if need be to add pressure back.
now, you are trying to tell me "default" = subjective
what i am trying to suggest to you is that you may be thinking in the wrong terms, ok?
here is doug noland from PrudentBear (Paste; emphases mine):
Italian bond yields surged 47 bps this week, as market enthusiasm for Greek bailout II dissipated with an alarmingly short half-life. Meanwhile, negotiations to avoid an August 2nd debt ceiling debacle became only a greater national embarrassment – and the Treasury market enjoyed another rally!
Perceptions of “moneyness” played a major role in nations attaining the capacity to accumulate unmanageable debt loads. And it was not long after market perceptions began to normalize that periphery European sovereigns faced untenable situations. As I’ve written recently, debt loads (from Greece to Italy) were manageable only so long as markets disregarded (mounting) underlying Credit risk. Today, the markets are content to perceive perpetual “moneyness” in Treasury debt. And this guarantees that an insidious impairment to underlying creditworthiness runs unabated. Yes, the Fed has thus far succeeded in ensuring that the system remains flush with “money.” Meanwhile, a dysfunctional market pricing mechanisms ensures that these debt obligations continue to be over-issued in ridiculous quantities. It will be an interesting weekend in Washington. (End Paste)
you may choose to disagree with this genleman's analysis, but i happen to think that he drills it, here!
perceiving this is difficult, due to "messages" that if we don't keep borrowing, we are screwed. however, what is here to be seen is really quite simple. the emperor is rather naked, it seems, and once we get so we can actually see that,..., ..., ...
I'm not sure what you are trying to convey to me, Slewie, but yeah the Fed is out there doing its thing to show they are trying to be helpful in all of this. We both agree I'm sure that fiat currency is not reflective of any immediate store of value since money can be printed as a political calculation just as easily as not. Of course, these obligations are overissued. The Fed creates money out of thin air to start the process, there are no underlying economic assets that reside on the Fed's balance sheet when they create money. Money materializes to buy Treasuries, along with MBS or whatever junk the banking cartel tells them to take off the banking industry's hands to protect the banks. Then they supposedly pass their operational profits back to the Treasury at year-end, but of course since they do not allow audits except be decree of Congress, there is no way real way to know how their books are being juiced.
For all the cheerful talk and optimism out of DC tonight, I am also seeing postings about the double-dip recession coming back into the picture, which is of course bullshit since we have been in a protracted downturn since 2007. I will never agree with the economists technical definition as to when the recession ended, since to millions of Americans it has not ended. It is insulting to the American people for the government to continue this fucking charade asserting the recession is over when there is genuine hardship out here in many areas, and nothing truly has changed in the labor market except further decline or treading water at best.
I read somewhere that Cantor - so probably others too - is betting on a failure of the bond market.
If that is so - and especially if he is not alone - then expect the worst.
very subtle, but: does "the worst" mean bonds going to 135, due to "cantor's call"? this would be a complete failure of the "bond market"...
...to yield a damned thing!
are these "bets" for next month? or two years from next january? any "insight" from what you "read somewhere"?
or, is cantor channelling merideth w? in which case the "price" (in green stamps, of course) might "fail" by dropping rapidly to, say 95? in which case he "agrees" w/ pimpco's "gross to the post" short dropback pattern which play has, so far, resulted in 4 straight interceptions?
or, don't you wanna play? this is for lesser minds on zH to talk about?
hey, maybe you read this on zH, from a "blogger" who just thought it was "clever" to say something like that, and you didn't realize the "sarc" button was on?
or, perhaps you are as "beyond help" as many others, here, after your 4 weeks as a "member" and you 5 days of posts?
so sad!
however, if it turned out that this was merely a hallucination, or dreeam, or idea, which you thought was "real" i would say that you had some potential, myself!
Think I agree with Robo here. A deal could be done by Monday sending the S&P back up to 1350 or so in a blink of an eye. And PMs sell off big.
But.... I also think the soap opera will more likely play out until Tuesday just because it can - there is one more day to play with the media junkies. Political theatre.
Once the ceiling is raised, Obama will go petal to the medal on more stimulus... it's the last chance he has, and he's been licking his chops to get it going before his butt is kicked out in the next election. The Bernank waits paitiently, looking forward to a Jackson Hole boondoggle trip to fire up the presses again and make it so.
Bottom line is if Obama can't create jobs his goose is cooked. Therefore. we will see massive government spending, bigger than anyone has expected, in an all out effort in prove the One's failed policys actually work - print more money, inject more stimulus. It won't work - those at the financial spigot, the primary dealers and banksters, will siphon it all off, and none of it will flow down to mainstream USA.
Gold and Silver should reach lofty new highs up until the next election when the future and fate of the USA economic condition reaches critical mass - and we get some new leaders nobody ever thought of before.
I wonder if twitter and internet bitching has replaced civilian discourse and revolt. Does talking to yourself on a computer hoping that other people give a shit about what we have to say actually replace the personal gratification ego stroking of civil disobedience?
I think it does. Otherwise, you would be affixing bumper stickers and recruiting your friends in the office to join the resistance. Instead, we friend request and tweetdeck it and we *feel good* that we're something different, something unique and special. Unlike the protests of days gone by.
Internet. The great uniter, yet also like a confession booth for the anonymous expulsion of the things that rile us up.
Making us good little batteries for the machine.
Yes and no. The world has always been comprised more of "talkers" than "doers."
The innertoobz provide a different outlet for the people who bitch and never would've done anything to change their circumstances, but it doesn't prevent that minority of people who do do stuff from doing it. Although technology may have made it easier for people never to leave their couch, it has ALSO made it easier for people who never leave their couch to have impact on the outside world.
Same as it ever was. Technology tends to be pretty neutral. We face a social dilemma. Refer to any of the great prophets of history if you'd like to know more.
I often wonder about the role of "pressure" relief valves" in current society.
Speak for yourself .
The boys in the sticks aren't flipping bits, we're cleaning AR's.
Listening to Coast to Coast AM right now... A bunch of cry babies calling in. They are demanding their sugar and it hasn't even been cut off yet! Jesus... what a bunch of helpless pathetic slobs. This is the average American citizen.
You're delusional if you think there will be TRUE spending reductions of any significance. This titanic is going to hit the iceberg at full steam ahead. Hopefully the jolt from the impact will throw some bums off deck so we can stay afloat just a little longer.
Yeah, 'cause I guess the people who call into AM talk-radio in the middle of the night are wielding all the political power in THIS country.
Coast to Coast AM has one of the largest audiences in all of radio and television. It's a great cross section of America.
That is why a deal will be made tomorrow or Monday. Think of it like this you have more time prepare. Monday when Dow is up 300 points and gold and silver take a dip just keep buying.
They are yelling and screaming at each other in the House. I don't know if it is live or recorded.
The gavel bangs and bangs.
They should use the Asian Solution to resolving problems. Have a big old grab ass in a corner and fight it out.
Last man standing gets to say what's what. If it's a woman, god help us all.
And they are all fired at election time 2012 and we hire nothing but Tea Party and restrict Congress to minimum wage and 40 hour work weeks with a time clock like everyone else.
Oh and ditch the planes and perks.
If a Congress man or woman needs to fly, they can take Jet Blue or Acela. It's easier on the Government than a honking fat C-17 with the associated tail of logistics and security.
Carl Marx was spot on when he said..
"Money plays the largest part in determining the course of history."
"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." Napoleon Bonaparte
Karl Marx was a mooch who borrowed money from his rich friend Engels and relied on inheritances to trade stocks, a vocation at which he fared poorly throughout his life. His conversion to communism was as an a means to his ends. What did Marx desire? The destruction of society at all levels and the imposition of the Karl Marx dictatorship. Quoting Marx is often done foolishly.
Superweapons play the largest part in determining history.
Correct that Marx sponged on Engels, but wrong on every other account.
Marx was not a "communist".
You sure have done Marx foolishly.
I am not defending him, but you obviously have never read Das Kapital, nor much else actually written by both Marx and Engels.
Do NOT confuse Marx with Trotsky, who picked and chose to derive his "permanent revolution" thesis which morphed, via Levi Straus, into the neo-cons, the Poject for the New American Century and so on.
If you are going to toss names around, then at least do some research.
As a matter of fact Marx refused to join any nascent communist or socialist party.
Ironic of course, considering that Marx had some vague vision of a collectivist future - never spelled out - whilst he was very much an individualist.
Do you know that he actually despized the "lumpenproletariat" (the workng class).
Do you know that he thought Russia was could never become communist/socialist? Well he got that right.
He was, however, comparable with Dickens in describing the miseries of 19th Century Britain and he did shed more light on how the economy works.
This whole debt ceiling-thing will end in a huge anti-climax: the ceiling will be raised by 2 trillion, some austerity measures will be annouced "to be executed somewhere in the next 10 years" and investors will run into the t-bonds Big Time. Forget all the buzz and fuzz, forget China and Russia, there will be no QE3 needed. Even many readers of ZH will buy at the first auction this week.
So a super congress would be established.
Fucking the people over to pay the banksters for their fraudulent debt.
Anyone that supports this is an unamerican pos.
One congressman will have more power than another.
All to pay back the bankster fraudulent debt, which won't do anything to change anything about our economy, our prosperity, at least in a positive light.
This deal is pure bankster bullshit, just like all the others.
Only Glass-Steagall remedies the situation
This potential deal? Only makes things worse.
Of course, nothing has been passed yet, so lets see if this idiot deal goes through on behalf of the banksters.
Automatic cuts across the board to pay the banksters for their fraudulent crimes via their fraudulent debt, that the idiots don't seem to recognize as such.
So why did you kill grandma, or whatever else may be in these cuts? Well ya see, these banksters bullshitted us into thinking we owed them money, and we just couldn't figure it out, nor use all the tools available to us under the constitution to rid ourselves of this fraud, so we just went ahead and paid them, and pulled the plug on grandma. Aren't we smart for figuring out how to *solve* this mess?
Except, nothing was solved, and in fact, it only makes things worse.
Wipe out the fraud via Glass-Steagall, or you are doing the banksters bidding and are a bonafide extremist traitor.
or, just don't raise the debt ceiling
the propaganda of what this is about and what will happen is hilarious
the american people are getting bent over in front of the whole wide world; just like the greeks or the irish or the icelanders
wouldn't it be ironic if people in africa or south america or asia or down under could perceive that if we raise the debt ceiling, we simply could not borrow any more money for a while, but we couldn't see it?
or even fuking canadians? eh? laughing at us from behind all those mosquitoes?
and even funnier if that were the root cause of the whole "crisis"? our blindness
not somebody else's?
Here's what Gerald Celente says about the ceiling:
http://www.geraldcelente.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1558
T baggers only drink the Daaaaarjeeling variety, with a zest of christian spice and a lot of Fox news hype. They won't touch the Kenyan brand of Arabica strain that is being distilled in Washington. Trust them to add some arsenic and old lace to the coming brew which will screw the juices of the Democrats to fever pitch. Having said that, the Dems can't see beyond Nov. 2012; myopia rhymes with dystopia!
"The chalice with the malice has the brew which is true..." Lets all sing together, like Danny Kaye, in the COurt Jester!
Wow, when Amerika was young and we were singin in the rain!
Too bad those T baggers can't tell frack gas from sweet oil, and confuse logic, facts with pride and prejudice.
There will be a reckoning on Capitol Hill as in Wall street and it won't be huncky dorey. But that's another story.
Clever.
I now rename you as SS.
Son of Salman.
or arundhati roy if u prefer.
Peter Schiff: "The REAL crisis is coming."
http://www.geraldcelente.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=schiff&action=display&thread=1560
Here's Bob Chapman's take on the debt ceiling:
http://www.geraldcelente.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=jones&action=display&thread=1562
Here's Max Keiser with Ned Naylor Leyland:
http://www.geraldcelente.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=keiser&action=display&thread=1557
Is that you Gerald?
A dirty deed in the dark of the night. A cowardly traitor.
Tomorrow's sun will bring the truth and displeasure thereof.
It ain't over yet by a long shot. Boener has now taken himself out of leadership and all the faith, trust and loyalty that he undeservedly took with his post.
We have the red herring and the blue herring here. Enjoy the meal.
Freedom is on the march.
Shrub said so. God Bless America, and God Bless Halliburton.
http://articles.cnn.com/2005-03-05/politics/bush.radio_1_peace-and-freedom-terror-attack-lebanon?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS
The Media Matters Flying Monkeys are hanging around again.
After three years of total economic failure, isn't it time to man up that Zero is just that? A failed, central planning, Socialist Zero?
Every quote stuffing HFT algo is about to go into futures ramping up mode on the HOPIUM.....forget that we are heading into a deeper depression than we are already in.....
the tea party says go tea bag yourself, false flag coming biatchez
So we get a huge rally Monday?
Do you Americans have your KY-jelly ready yet, THE synonym for lubricant in the U.S. ?
Proudly presented by Johnson & Johnson
(which by the way is so hilarious, you can't make this stuff up, LOL !).
Now bend over and grab the ankles.
"Do you Americans have your KY-jelly ready yet,?"
Very good point - we should have a tube or two in hand. The clue was from the above report:
"the actual cuts, which will likely be back-end loaded"
We always take it in the back end (we taxpayers, that is).
watching this video again Its time
pms only hope in 2 years you will be happy stock market rigged and dangerous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVxySaw8ayI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
some here forget: the policy of Washington is to NEVER solve problems..if they were in the problem solving business it would result in smaller and smaller government as problems were solved..(war on drugs is a good example.)
remember this as we post about this plan or that plan this pol or that.
kicking the can is the process and the goal.
a one eyed man in the land of the blind.
WWII was a mistake in that it was one problem they solved - korea was the new way..how many troops still there? we now have never ending wars as they learned the lesson of that one mistake.
The solution is to carry the war into the backyards of those who profit from it.
Colburn of all the Senators yesterday got on the floor of the Senate and told the truth. He had a list of all the "entitlement" programs, went down the list, telling anyone who wanted to hear how Congress stole the money and spend it on other things, including Social Security and Mediaid/care. He pointed out that the average Medicare recipient will pay in just over $100K and collect just over $300K. He asked America how long they think that can go on. For those that say they never speak the truth, well, he sure did. We here all carp about the Fed, etc, and it is true, but we ignore the truth often about our system - "the hand out". We "deserve" shit because "fill in the blank".
The answer is obvious but very painful. We need to cut the Federal Government to Constitutional size. What really enabled it to grow so out sized? The ability to create money with nothing behind it. Take that away, and the Federal Government will either wither away, or they will create a no velvet glove dictatorship. I'm hoping for the Washington D.C. area to become a ghost town rather than boom town.
You are right but,
There, fixed it for ya.
Quote: " "
Right on, bro! I'm speechless too.
Ah but wait! Rescue is at hand, there are all sorts of funds to be raided. Good news is at hand, for the chosen few anyway (and maybe you iz one of they?).
Let me put it this way. Goodbye 401k ... which gets called "superannuation" here in Australia.
I have the grim satisfaction of having proved to be correct - back in the glorious 1980s when Monetarism got in full swing.
I told enthusiasts for "superannuation" (401k) that they were on a hiding to nothing, but no one listened.
I tried to explain that it was OK when only a small percentage of a population were on some pension scheme investing in the stock market, property and whatever; but that it would be all doomed to failure when everyone got on board with a more or less compulsory, government-run pension fund (haha).
BTW there is nothing necessarily wrong with a government providing various forms of "social security", but when governments get in bed with investment 'banks' and take on the business model of Amway and other Pozi schemes - well Avon is another prime example - then everything becomes a Ponzi rort.
Only the scum rise to the top ... only the most greedy ... only sociopaths. The great majority slave for little or no reward.
Back in the 1980s I did not have the knowledge of such as derivatives and hedge funds ... no one did ... but partly intuitively and partly by the knowledge I did have then, I more or less saw where things were headed.
I owe a lot to John Kenneth Galbraith.
I read his "The Affluent Society" back in the 1970s.
I recommend a read ... also Keynes' basic proposition that the "good times" should be taxed, so as to provide a buffer during bad times.
Too late now, of course ... think on that. Think on the fact that - under the influence of the Chicago School/Monetarism/Reagonomics/etc. taxes (at least on the very rich) - have been cut during the most expensive and useless wars in history.
Personally I have got out from under in ways which could work for me here in Australia (no certainty).
I 'own' no property to pay taxes and insurance on, nor any other costs of up-keep, i.e. I rent.
I do not have a car, nor refrigerator ... though I do have a washing machine, because I am disabled physically.
I do not have a TV, nor an air-conditioner, though obviously I have a PC ... but that can go if need be.
I lived without one for 60 years ... and our species for some 250,000 years, as all other species still do: lest they become extinct via "homo sapiens" lacking wisdom totally ... as seems to be the case.
Corresponding with the "almighty (petro-dollar") going into melt-down, three GE-designed nuclear reactors at Fukushima have gone into nuclear melt-down.
Take heed, though Bob Dylan sold out (it seems):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYQZSDOWwww
His name is not Bob Dylan originally.
It was Robert Allen Zimmerman, or the Hebrew Shabtai Ziset ben Avraham. Go figure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Dylan
I have lost all respect, though he once convinced me and Joan Baez (who never sold out):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQiIZXkt2RM
Really, what a rant. You cite Keynes and John Kenneth Galbraith as your financial "inspiration", yet you try to contribute as little as possible to the government financial system they were for. Dude, cut back on the meds and try to get some clairty in your life.
Spending on!!!
The scum are squirming and thinking like one, I will posit some "fixes" being concidered...
Year 1 budget increase of $150B over planned decrease of $100B. Differential of -$250B to be "banked" and implemented in later budget period, like year 10.
CPI is adjusted based on the scrap junk method "what will you give me for this broken brick? $0.00". The first answer of 0, means no inflation or CPI adjustments for Social Security or Medicare payouts. Any other answer cannot be calculated and will revert to original (and no increase) until next year when it is measured again.
Special defense spending inflation CPI (or DSI), a variable basket of inflation in the 100+ countries that we are occupying are used to increase spending. A similar system can be used to funnel money to big Pharma and big Oil. It won't be called CPI, so people won't feel like they are being cheated.
We can eliminate Treasury and let Wall Street run the countries finances. They can invest it and earn commissions on the monies. Obviously none of this needs to be run through the CBO as they are a redundant operation and should be shuttered with Wall Street doing the financial reporting.
I am pretty sure that politicians would report campaign contributions on the honor system. Alot of money can be saved on useless regulation.
That's all I can think of right now.....
Cut federal spending in the Tea Party districts first and see how that effects their economies.
.. Sixty Tea Party House districts received $43 billion in government contracts last year. Let's see how austerity works.Sure, because more manipulation of local economies by the Fed.Gov is precisely what we need right now.
Riiiiiiiiight.
"Cut federal spending in the Tea Party districts first and see how that effects their economies."
That is an excellent beginning of a description of their goal. Let me complete your thought:
Cut federal spending in those districts, and also lower taxes by a corresponding amount. Net sum - zero. Those that pay taxes will benefit. Those that don't pay taxes (on either end of the spectrum) will in essence be taxed as they now have to pay for the cut "entitlements" themselves.
If this tentative deal can't stand the light of day, hopefully, S&P, Fitch and Moody's will throw cold water on it, so there may still be a downgrade standing in the wings.
So let me see if I have this correct...
President Unprecedented gets his shiny new Visa card (with a $2.4T-$2.8T credit line), no questions asked, no strings attached.
We get another "Blue Ribbon Commission" that will recommend "cuts" that will never happen from budgets that grow every single freaking year (the $1T in "cuts" are decreases from the baseline increase).
The "across the board" cut trigger will be treated precisely the way it was in 1986 and 1990 - ignored if not outright repealed.
Moody's and S&P get to continue to pretend we're "AAA" and, heck, solvent.
The Banksters get to skim their "Holiday" bonuses from the rent all this new debt will generate.
And the American taxpayer continues to be inflated and taxed into poverty.
Can. Kicked.
It's the feel-good story of Recovery Summer 2.0
Wait... I thought it was Recovery Summer 3.0?
You know, back in the 60's people actually went into the streets to protest, unlike today, they are so lazy they just sit on the internet now and complain to each other as if the crooks could here you....or cared.... Take it to the streets folks.....and soon!!!!!
+1969
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zob0j9xpX6w
plus 1776. plus 1066. plus 1861. plus 1917. plus 1789. plus 1949. equals:
uhnnh... new ideas & blood?
when i was a little slewie, if anyone heard or saw the number "1066" we would all try to be the first to scream: "battle of hastings"!!!
i assure you, no one knew a damned thing, past that!
400 point relief rally on the DOW as the barkers call the retail marks back into the tent, due tomorrow. 10 yr to revert to distressingly low rates/high price due to ongoing collapse in Europe that has retreated from the front page but due back any minute. Couple that with still crappy outlook for an american economy that has absolutely no driver for growth, and brakes in the form of oil at or around $100.
"400 point relief rally on the DOW as the barkers call the retail marks back into the tent"
You mean all of the retail crowd that has been so busy up til now ensuring incredibly new high volume counts each week?
Laying blame at the House Republican Tea Party is nothing more than politics. Good luck selling that this is all the Tea Party's fault to middle class Americans that have any common sense. Whether the Tea Party Republicans decide to go along to get along or stand there ground and vote against this bill is a no win situation. I don't envy their decision.
The media has driven this non-stop montra by Obama that it's all Bush's and now the Tea Party's fault for a failing economy or the debt ceiling. If you understand that the CBO would rate a spending cut of 9.5 trillion next year if there were no increases in spending from this year. You begin to understand how out of control Obama has been when we are not even a third of the way there on any proposal.
At the end of the day this is not a cut in spending.
If you think about it the Tea Party had the ability to stop the Boener bill from passing but they failed. Boener has 242 seats and was able to turn enough of them so that the 22 hold outs who voted no are now isolated and marginalized. Whatever the Administration and Senate come up with there will be a sizable majority in the House that passes it. Obama is on the verge of a major political victory with the benefit of having dealt a lethal blow to the Tea Party with the help of mainstream republicans.
an utter joke if true....
there will be outrage for sure....
According To The World Bank, Of The Nearly 100 Banking Crises That Have Occurred Internationally During The Last Twenty-Years, All Were Resolved By Bail Outs At Taxpayer Expense
http://investmentwatchblog.com/according-to-the-world-bank-of-the-nearly...
LOL
Surprised the teabaggers haven't advocated. Get rid of the private bank cartel families, starting with the Rothschilds and their spawn. Go down the list until their DNA is vanished.
Program faces into the drones. Get rid of hedge fund managers. Get rid of the Federal Reserve morons, starting with Greenspan. Program their faces into drones. Get rid of their spawn. Get rid of the bankers in New York City, including the first 5000 top excutives. The more bankers and traders and their families destitute and on foodstamps, the better.We're talking 2 or 3 northeast states. Easy to manage. Get any west coast morons that need taking out.
Give banking right to the top person at North Dakota state bank, the only upright bank in the US. Let that person oversee converting the banks in the other 49 states to his/her gameplane. Give pension management to MBAs who are NOT part of the east coast bank families.
Yea, reinstate Glass-Steagall if the need is still there. Probably it will be.
Long term solution: get rid of the private bank cartel. Teabaggers haven't proposed it because they're waiting to get their snouts at the trough and collect lobbying money, bribes, payoffs.
Talking points of the SEIU.
agumentum ad hominem - check
argumentum ad ignorantiam - check
affirming the consequence - check
circular reasoning - check
post hoc ergo propter hoc - check
straw man - check
Well done slave! Go salad toss the union boss!
Even if there is a deal to cut some phantom (future) spending, it will be irrelevant when the market finally realizes the economy is slowing down. It will be back to this...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5vkPiCEjjdg/S5R88tlzOUI/AAAAAAAAFrc/iNbC2ggQ2UA/s400/bail_dees.jpg
Market 'realizations' have become meaningless thru POMO. They'll manipulate until they can't anymore and who knows when that will be. Read something about insiders dumping shares big time but they coulda just been over the debt deal but not sure. I'm getting the feeling that the Wallstreet asteroid headed on a trajectory with mainstreet was just nuked out of orbit but gravity will bring it back to earth the next trip around. How many times can that be done?
So summarized the DOW will reach previous highs in 2-3 days. LOL.
this is called game theory.....and somebody needs to make THE move....
Agree, and the debt ceiling debate has been classic example of "prisoners dillemma". Not holding onto principles means everyone loses.
how many ways are there for the GOP to see that 2.8 trillion runs out BEFORE the elections? Now there is a perverse secondary reason for the GOP to spend, and the Dems to save, but there must be something that would get both sides to agree that the cookie jar is full and we should all grab a handful (lest that guy next to us take unfair advantage we should get there first). There are bipartisan causes, boots on the ground in Libya? An unexpected rise in interest rates? Primarily we have reached a point where servicing the debt we already have could be untenable. The double dip recession offers some possibilities, new stimulus spending, and extensions of unemployment? Finally if Wall St pirouttes the banks will be back for more. But mostly I see a Congressional money rush to get that new cash before it is gone, and they have to wait until 2013? 2013, when we can break the bank and raise the debt ceiling debate before the election? 2013? in a pig's eye.
BTW havne't looked into it but aren't those tea people ran by a bunch of gazillionaires? Isn't that Michelle girl the one that talks to god, lives on farm subsidies and her husband runs a clinic that tries to make gays not gay anymore?
I don't think you have to look very far to see how DC gets away with what they do judging by the intelligence of it's citizens.
I hear your union boss calling you. Better grab your ankles again sub.
it was a tough negotiation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKwg6W05MU&feature=player_detailpage
America came out on top.
Obama has to be thinking, "All I have to do is make it until GDP goes negative." He can juice the system to keep GDP positive through the election.
I'm disgusted.
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