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"Adolf Merkel": Presenting The Greek Gratitude For The 50% Debt Haircut
One would think that considering that their debt, or rather about 60% of it, was haircut over the past 2 days, the Greeks would be grateful to Germany who not only orchestrated this transaction over the vocal protests of her French vertically challenged counterpart, but effectively has pledged a substantial portion of German GDP to preserve not only the Greek welfare state but soon that of all the other European countries. One would be wrong.
The Mail reports:
Greeks angry at the fate of the euro are comparing the German government with the Nazis who occupied the country in the Second World War.
Newspaper cartoons have presented modern-day German officials dressed in Nazi uniform, and a street poster depicts Chancellor Angela Merkel dressed as an officer in Hitler’s regime accompanied with the words: ‘Public nuisance.’
She wears a swastika armband bearing the EU stars logo on the outside.
The backlash has been provoked by Germany’s role in driving through painful measures to stop Greece’s debt crisis from spiralling out of control
It gets worse:
Opposition parties blasted the landmark agreement, with conservatives warning it condemned the country to ‘nine more years of collapse and poverty’.
But it is the fury of ordinary Greeks which is raising eyebrows.
Greek government officials who agreed to the belt-tightening moves have been portrayed in cartoons giving the Nazi ‘Sieg Heil’ salute.
Greek finance minister Evangelos Venizelos is a regular target in the liberal daily Eleftherotypia and is often shown in cartoons making a Nazi salute.
One shows a German soldier watching over Venizelos as he barks at a Greek citizen to pay more taxes.
In another cartoon, a young Greek answers a German soldier asking why there were no names on a list of Greece’s newly formed labour reserve, saying: ‘They are empty as you exterminated the Communists, the Jews, the homosexuals, the gipsies and the crazies last time.’
And the most ominous sign is that we already are seeing animosity between ordinary people on both sides of the table, people who are part of the proverbial 99%, and who have nothing to do with the disgusting arrangements at the top whose only purpose is to enrich the already uber-rich.
And German visitors flocking to ancient tourist sites are being met with a hostile welcome from some Greeks.
If that last one isn't very concerning, re-read it enough times until it is.
And while geographical proximity between Greece and Germany may be a redeeming feature to what are already preambles to outright aggression, when will geography no longer matter: when the Greek "experiment" moves to Portugal? To Belgium? To France? Is it time to start plant more trees in the Ardennes forest?
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Afilliation with Aristoteles Onasis ? Greek scammer who fucked the first lady gave the insider for Goldman Sux ....
CIA & Rand corporation were able to find a workaround how the fuck the Europe through the greek arsehole ....
Lesbos & Santorini well known for the CI pattern for TPTB.
Bilderbergs just love such places :-P
Megalomaniac responsible for the attempted genocide and murder of millions of people while trying to take over the world = Some bitch who just made it that Greece doesn't have to pay half of their debt
???
How about Greece pays it's bills and shuts the fuck up?
How about it is impossible for them to pay their bill back?
Would you lend money to someone who spend it at the casino everyday? If you do then you are as responsible for your incomming loses than him.
Bob,
To pay who? Not only Greece, but all indebted countries will be called to pay or have their wealth seized. Who will be the owners?
Money is not the target. Money can be produced, printed. This is about wealth and control, and Greece is one of the labs.
+1 Well put bob_dabolina.
Angela Merkel definitely <> to Adolf Hitler.
Damn right, Greece pay your bills, stop whining and STFU. Serves you right being hustled by Goldman Sachs (and using them to hustle Europe).
If Greece thinks it is the slimy Banksters who did this to them, then get out of the EU and kick all the foreign banks out. Or default already! And then please STFU!
So, you mean, if someone else loans money in my name, and does not tell me about it, i deserve paying it back and should STFU?
Howabout, you STFU dumbass?
The greek population should have gotten the option to insta-default of the entire fraudulent loan, the moment it way too late became public knowledge.
I feel confident he was mocking Bob.
And they can still default. Any of us at any time can do that. They don't understand their problem clearly, yet.
When you see countries, states , cities and corporations all over the world just defaulting on their debts with no consequences, it gives one ideas on a personal level..
The banks do it and just call it business. If they are losing money on a contract with you, they will dump the deal in a hearbeat if they can legally get out of it.
It's funny, once a bankruptcy happens, they start calling almost immeadiately with credit card offers. They know you can't default for (what is it, 7 years?) a while. Someone close to me would not do it, and kept getting bailed out by relatives. Ended up losing support he could have really used when he eventually did have to go under. Another one had it multiply up really bad because of added late fees and stuff (30 grand turned into 70). I know of another who pledged his paid for home to get money to save the company, lost the home he would have at least had if he had done the deed (it was in his wife's name, she was so pissed when she had to quit claim it, she knew what would happen, couldn't say no).
On an individual or company or soverign level, it is good to just clear it out instead of letting it go on and on.
some how on that picture she reminds me the girl from Stargate SG1.. Amanda .. something... Looks a like
Tapping. And I totally would. Zing.
Beware of Greeks accepting gifts.
ah, I see my detractors are offended by Trojan Horse references and irony
Well I brought you some green. I guess there is a small part of ZH that just does not like irony or history.
Only a small part. There is a contingent that thrives on it.
That is an interesting comment Jena.
ZH is a big playground, plenty of room for all kinds.
Individualism.
Town government.
County government.
State government.
Federal government.
Continental government.
World government.
From top to bottom gets worse and worse.
Wake up Germany.
Wake up Greece.
Wake up world.
End elitism.
Simple and awesome statement.
@ honestann
I have little respect for the town government where I live. My county is full of corruption.
IMO, it's ALL rotten, top to bottom. My theory: politicians (and Banksters) are all self-selected.
Indeed, the endless reign of corruption without consequences has corrupted a great many local governments too. However, removing the upper layers is a benefit, and at least you have a chance to do something about local levels. In contrast, none of us have any realistic chance to change the larger layers of governments in any signficant way.
The simple fact is, governments are fictions. In fundamental law, all organizations are "fictitious entities", which means, they don't exist. The idea exists, just like the idea of "SantaClaus", but the idea refers to... nothing. So yeah, in fact, individualism is the only honest characterization, and anarchy is the only honest description of "the system" (namely, "there is none"). So yes, any supposed level of government is fictional, fraudulant, and inherently rotten. I'm just saying, the top levels are worst, even if only because they have more power and harm more people.
Stiffy alert: she looks good in that snappy uniform.
Hi,
introducing myself, I am from this fascist state governed by the BDM girl dressed in uniform.
Profession: Sell side equity analyst
Treating tourists like crap should be good for Greek GDP. </sarcasm>
Give Greece to the Turks.
I'll have that hand with tzatziki on the side. OPA!
according to bob chapman, unconfirmed report that germany has put up all their gold holdings as colateral!
Chapman is the man - ex-intelligence service attache's can get the scoop - ask Putin
Wait until China's leader punks their own peasants into lifelong misery so Greeks can retire early and Bankers can continue to Hog Out...
I hate to see what a scorned, hungry bunch of 1.5 Billion hard working folks look like.
As the above mention, the Greeks and Bankers should eat their own losses and move on.
Ask a Ming Emperor what happens when teh Chinese peasant is displeased.
The Alex Jones Show just asked Bob Chapman if "Zero Hedge" is right about the Euro mess.
I wonder if he was being rhetorical for the sake of saying the words Zero Hedge. Tisk tisk.....
As before, I don't think the German people will have the stomach to go around and enforce austerity on Europe. In the end that is what it will come to. The demonization begins.
One would hope that everyone remembers it's not the people but the global financial system that drove this.
Were the 'people' compliant in this?
Yes, to some small degree.
But if you have Ph'd 'experts' that could not understand the system or ramifications, how do you expect bus drivers and baristas to comprehend?
Especially when you have a bought and paid for media pushing only the 'happy' parts of being in the EU.
This same lack of understanding is world wide. Even the german people probably don't fully understand what their handlers are doing.
Keep your anger and disgust 'on target'.
In general, I agree that the general public cannot be held responsible for the elite game. But it is not about damning the Greek public for their debt, this article is about damning the Greek for closing their eyes regarding the actions of their political and corporate elite and blaming it on others with populist hatred, even debunked by a half-conscious six-year-old.
If the bus driver is so over-comfortable with his living, its the responsibility of a citizen to get a reality check. Closing your eyes and accepting thus selling your soul to the devil IMO spoils any citizens legitimization to blame after a lost game. If a public opposes as in many of the recently fallen regimes, I fully share their disapproval of taking up the burden of such regimes, but not in this case.
Just imagine the German people in '45 in the face of the financial aftermath of WWII publishing cartoons of extremist Christians having returned from America with anger only to rob the just of their future wealth.
It's not about the past, it is about how they face their future.
For this I would refer back to the statement of the 'bought and paid for media'.
While the U.S. media is bought and paid for by the corportacracy, the Greek media is owned the old fashion way...by the government.
If they aren't being told the truth and are being fed info that directs them to certain conclusions or complacency they are still victims.
It always scares me when I see hate directed at the masses. It's just what the handlers want to have happen.
Pretty much like the useless (at this point) argument of 'left versus right' in the U.S.
Perfect distraction while they prepare the quart jar of vasoline and the crowbar they are going to ram up your butt.
I basically agree with your point, I just think it is time and the responsibility of anyone anywhere to wake up and question their assigned role and the self-sustainability of their living standard. If you have doubts about the situation you realize, you may further live with it, but the conscience changes and you become aware of the forces tricking you. Sure, corporate and government propaganda makes it difficult for the public to realize, I only think developing a conscience keeps people from unwillingly playing the game of others with opposing interests and fatal consequences.
http://logioshermes.blogspot.com/2011/10/blog-post_1123.html#.Tqq6KV0aeDg.facebook
for good reason..here it explains who benefits most on loan haircut..
Greek Billionaire shipowner and CEO of US-listed Dryships, George Economou, routinely steals millions from the company and then says "Americans are the dumbest investors around." He has not bothered to show up for a conference call in ages. Germans are not the only ones screwed by Greek chicanery.
Gratitude is foreign to Greeks.
Debt Slaves are supposed to be thankful?
Yes, when you got into debt on false pretenses aided by the vampire squid.
You forgot to add: Without being told about it.
Are you trying to tell people, that one is responsible for a loan, which one neither requested, nor was informed about, until shit already hit the fan?
There is more to this, Tyler. A German journalist was attacked with acid this year. She recovered but the story will probably not boost their tourism.
Crazy world. But always remember - the Euro brought us peace and stability. [that's what our EU propagandists tell us every morning, every afternoon and every evening...]. Not like the Deutsche Mark.
How does that poster feel to you? Probably you will not have the typical German response, but I am interested any way. For me it is just sad evidence of how little the common Greek gets what is happening.
As a German I am used to be called a Nazi (was about ten years old when I was called the first time a NAZI - because I was German). Obviously I am not one. I don't cry about it. I know that I live in a beautiful, sometimes dark, cold, foggy and rainy country (and I love it :). I can understand it when people that lived at the time don't like Germans at all. Having said that, I was welcomed very warmly in Russia - something I would never expected and what really touched me. (speaking of ordinary Russians, not Oligarchs. Oligarchs are...)
The average German response is Zorn (anger). I don't consider myself special (being average at many different things) .I don't like Merkel myself and I am normally a conservative voter. Merkel has transformed the CDU into a party that I cannot vote or support any longer. I was born at a time when my country was still divided. I've talked intensively with East Germans after the reunification and I became a close and good friend to somebody who was part of the GDR system. Merkel was part of that system and the CDU is acting like a Zombie party under her reign - people that are against the Euro project are suddenly called "Abweichler". A word that was only used to describe the opposition in Stalinist Russia. People like Trotzki. That worries me.
It's sad, Mscreant. I have visited Greece myself many times - as a kid, as an adult. I've learnt much from the Greek philosophers and they had great minds. Not only in philosophy. I was welcomed there as a kid. I love the contrast to my country. I've spent much time of my adult life with Greek mythology and Ancient Greek art.
Actually I feel sorry for them. Difficult times, no prospects, no jobs, violent clashes and a failed state.
I am a bit disappointed, yes. But it only confirms my concerns. I was against the whole Euro project from the start. Not because I was against European partnership or working together as Eurozone. A liberal vision of Europe where a citizen can cross the borders without showing a passport, where goods can be transfered without any troubles and duties. That's the Europe I want to see. A democratic Europe. Not a socialist Europe. Not one currency. It doesn't work.
The model of their society is not sustainable. Even the current German model is not sustainable. We are just slower. The common German does not know much more about it. Maybe he is more aware of certain things (like hyperinflation - even ordinary people). I am worried though - how do you explain the common German what happens here? Put yourself in their minds - in the last ten years, they've sacrificed much. They have to retire later, they have to work longer (hours), they don't get paid what they were paid ten years ago (the lower you go, the more you lose - staggering 30 % for those with the lowest income). Germany has changed a lot.
Well, I know that BILD, the German version of Sun, will not be shy to portray their opinion. PR-campaigns everywhere to put the anger in a different direction. And others will follow. That's what we call a Teufelskreis (vicious cycle). Scapegoating - like kids in a sandbox. But they are not kids anymore - and I hope this doesn't get out of control.
thanks for sharing - interesting perspective... got to remember though greek pension funds roughly 40 billion euros will receive a 50% haircut ....as you might know, common pensions are just a bit more than a few hunderds euros (and already cut) ... I am not saying that is the fault of merkel or germany per se but people are suffering and this agreement stamps it .... if we can see an analogy back with the Marshall Plan the allies FORGAVE all the german debt which was the basis for the economic boom of today's germany among other things. .. yes, germany was destroyed but cant squeeze much out of greek citizens today either...
It is true that the Marshall Plan was very important for Germany. Keep in mind that we are mainly talking about West Germany. I am still grateful about many things Americans did. Yes, they had their own interest. Sure, it was cold war. But I will never forget the Berlin airlift.
I've seen Leipzig directly after the reunification. ( http://www.thejunction.de/wp-content/uploads/leipzig3-510x404.jpg ). My father, an engineer, said to me: "Wie nach dem Krieg" ("Like after the war"). Their education system was not that bad - most of our current writers are from East Germany.
I am sure there are people in Greece suffering very much. Especially old people. That should not be. I hate to see such things here in my country. I am not sure if a total debt forgiveness would help Greece - there are things in Greece that need to be changed. Starting with the crony government there. (and there are things here in Germany that need to be changed...)
But it should not be Germans to tell the Greek people what to do with their society. And it should not be ordinary Germans, Austrians, Finns, Dutch, Americans (with Fed money) - whatever - paying for the whole mess.
Enjoyed your responses, very glad I asked! It is important to hear from folks in the midst of it. I have German heritage myself on both sides of the family. Both sides made their way over to the US via Canada.
It's odd, there is the whole Nazi thing, yet in this culture, I personally feel pride about my German heritage. Lots of folks here think Germans are "cool." We think your people as a group are smart, precise, dependable, hard working, and don't take shit. Your sense of personal space takes some back a bit (my husband told me about queing up for beer [not] and loved how clean everything was, he served 7 years in Germany in the US Army). On the other hand people sort of "forgive" my French heritage!! English, Castillian, and a dark shadowy thing they won't talk about (I suspect American Indian though, my Grandmother was even ashamed of the Castillian), I am a happy mutt.
I agree debt forgiveness won't change corruption, moral hazard will just rot the whole thing again.
Stay cool, keep us in your loop, it adds value to ZH for me.
Thanks.
I think that many Germans are still learning how to deal with their past. More and more people realize that they can be proud of their culture without being labeled Nazi. But it is also important to remember that past.
Every German soldier considered himself to be glad to surrender to American troops. It's true. My grandfather surrendered to American troops (He respected them - he could not respect the Russians, because they sent their own men right into machine gun fire.).
My father once told me - he was a child back then - that in school they portrayed the American as a devil-like person. When my grandfather heard about that he had to laugh and told him not to worry about that - it's bullshit. And when finally the war was over for them - as I said - my grandfather was the leader of a local Volkssturm unit in that town and they surrendered to Americans without firing a single shot. It must be said that this was not an easy thing to do for a German - there was another (very young) soldier in a different village that was killed on the spot (just a few hours before they had to surrender) - they hanged him. And when the mayor (a Nazi) heard that my grandfather wanted to surrender - he threatened that SS would kill all of them and their families if they would do that. It had no impression on the men or on my grandfather. It was over - they were glad. War was finally over (with all that fighting so many years on so many different places) And my father - well he got a chocolate bar from American soldiers. They were certainly not devils ;).
I mean you always can find a dark spot on every nation or army.
But the Americans showed humanity. German POW were treated very well by Americans. (There was no other nation that treated their prisoners so well in that war.) And they were impressed and realized that they were standing on the wrong side. When the war was over - Americans helped Germans - food was sent over. That is something you can be really proud of. Today some people seem to forget that or are from East Germany and have a different approach. I can only tell what people here (in Southwest Germany) think and honestly - I never heard a bad word about them. Not even a complaint. Some jokes yes and some erotica XD (vice versa). Otherwise it would be lame.
I've talked to many of your GIs here (not far from K-Town (Kaiserslautern) and Ramstein). Some of them went directly to Irak or Afghanistan. Very young people (and often thoughtful). Fortunately I am not depending on American troop presence (economically). I live next to Mainz in Rhineland-Palatinate.
See, I am aware of the negative side of America as well and I do not agree on everything the US does; or mainly your politicians. But I am also sick of people that are constantly blaming America for everything. I think that Germany owes a lot to America (even before the Nazis came; America was a symbol of hope. It was an idealistic view on America. But even with all the hardship, it was better to be there in a free and liberal society than to bow in front of an emperor or a king.) The image of America is changing - that is true. It is not an idealistic image anymore. Back in the 90s it was different. I knew many people that were dreaming of America - to emigrate to America. It changed in the past ten years (with the wars and the economic downturn).
I think that both countries need a change. Not one based on hopium though.
PY-129-20,
I thank you for your valuable insights and opinions. I apologize for being uneducated and cannot reply in your language. You'd think that I would have picked up some German from all my Nena cds! I like Klee, too.
You were one of my favorite posters even before I knew you were German. Since I am a Germany buff, that is even better. I regret the hateful anti-German comments that you may see in this thread. Please be aware that for every hater, there are many who are positively disposed towards you because of your nationality.
I may have grown up in an atypical household. As a boy watching the Winter Olympics with my family, my father rooted for the Germans, and occasionally the Finns and Austrians. My mother always rooted for the Swiss. (Notre Dame in football because she was Irish and Swiss) Years later, it would lead to some small embarrassment when I realized that most Americans rooted for fellow Americans.
My father had some antique toy soldier moulds that he had gotten from my grandfather that he poured molten metal into to make toy soldiers. There were British and Prussian soldiers. I didn't think about it at the time, but the loser of drawing lots among my brothers, got the British, and the winner got the Prussians.
My father was anti-plastic model building, but through the Manfred von Richtofen loophole, I was able to obtain a Fokker dr1 and a Fokker d7. Eventually, I was able to make a case for a dogfight and added a SPAD 17 and a Sopwith Camel. Ultimately, I was building Messerschmidts, Focke Wulfs, and even the Starship Enterprise! I never dared trying his patience with a plastic automobile model, however.
In spite of my father's heroes, I was raised to be a pacifist by both parents. The Imperial German battle flag, that is hanging prominently on a wall at the truck shop I work out of, is partly in jest because of the high number of German ancestry employees. It has received many favorable comments, e.g. "That's a bad-assed looking flag!" Iron crosses are certainly popular symbols, and who does not love eagles, Hapsburg or otherwise? Since your English is better than mine, I encourage you to check out www.anti-war.com.
Your fellow tribesman, August
P.S. You state that you are conservative. Do you like the Republikaner Party? If I was a German, I would probably vote Republikaner. If you were Austrian would you like the FPO? I like Strache. If a Dane, would you like Dansk Folkparti? I tried to order some Dansk Folkparti stuff from their internet butikken, but I guess they can't accept auslander money. Same with the Vlams Belang people. I might try to order a knick-knack from the Republikaners. How about the Swede's Democraterna? I need to look on ebay for European political party stuff, I suppose. I am a Patrick J. Buchanan/Ron Paul/Tea Party conservative, myself. I wish Germany had a new silver bullion coin, but the old man had a bunch of old Austrian coins and I'm sure he would have approved of these Wiener Philharmonikers. Besides, I have plenty of German products in my gun safe. I have a genuine Boker WWI trench knife, too.
"I regret the hateful anti-German comments that you may see in this thread. Please be aware that for every hater, there are many who are positively disposed towards you because of your nationality"
Well, you find this everywhere. There are people that are anti-American, anti-Jewish, etc. I am not offended by that stuff. It is amazing how the perception of a country can change over a certain time. In the sixteenth century, people thought that Germans were lazy and not very cultivated. Tacitus, the great Roman historian, wrote almost the same about the German tribes - they were considered to be lazy, good warriors, but lacking discipline. And then the perception changed when people like Lessing revolutionized the German literature. Within two centuries we had such brilliant minds like Beethoven, Leibnitz, Bach, Händel, Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer,Goethe, Schiller, Heine, Hölderlin, Humboldt, etc. Goethe, considered to be the greatest German writer, was still perceived as a barbarian by the leading German aristocracy (namely the French speaking Friedrich II. (Frederick II)). Frederick thought that only the French were able to do good literature.
A part of my family comes from Switzerland, a part from France, the majority is mainly Prussian, Swabian and from the Palatinate. I think it is very ironic that my grandfather fought as a machine gunner in WWI and was part of the Isonzo battle and probably killed Italians. If he would be still alive today, he would have Italian great-grandchildren. A part of my family also went to America - in the 1860s. It was a good choice for them. They worked hard and as far as I know, that family part is still living very well there. Many Americans are of German heritage. The Royal family in England is of German heritage. Or Mountbatten - he was called Battenberg (Berg is German for Mountain) before WWI and they changed the name to Mountbatten.
My grandfather knew Rommel and Udet personally. He served under Rommel in WWI. He held both in high regard. Udet could do astonishing things with his plane. German pilots feared the Sopwith Camel - it was a great plane. As I said recently - my grandfather threw away all his Iron Crosses after the war. He kept some things - like the Reichsmark notes of the Weimar hyperinflation. And I have a lot of old WWII photographs, Wehrpass (military ID) from WWI and WWII.
I think that flag would raise some alarm bells here. I have to laugh. I know someone that has a Prussian flag and most of the people seeing that flag automatically think that he is a Nazi. Of course that is not true. He is just proud of his Prussian heritage.
It sometimes disturbs me to know that some artifacts of the past are now branded because of the Nazis. They literally destroyed our own historical heritage. Even a few years ago - if you were interested in Ancient German history, you could be labelled a Nazi. Even before the world championship of 2006 it felt strange to wave a German flag as a German.
Germans are still finding a way how to deal with their past. I think it is absolutely important to be aware of what happened during the Nazi time. And that is a tough thing. You need to dig into the history of your family - not knowing if your beloved grandfather was a mass-murderer. A friend of mine, a very nice and intelligent woman, did this. She always thought good of her grandfather. But later she researched his past and found that he was a mass murderer. Her world broke apart. After that discovery she decided that she never wanted to have children. A sad decision. Well, I cannot decide for her. I understand what she feels.
---
I would vote for Ron Paul if I could. Other than that it depends on the candidate. And looking at them - well, I am not an insider (as a foreigner) but it reminds me of some German politicians (and that's not good). But generally I would be more on the Republican side.
Even the Greens have a conservative topic - to preserve the environment. And I must say - although I don't like most of their politicians (some have a maoistic background like Trittin), I can agree with them on certain topics. Example: I am not a friend of nuclear energy - I never was. Normally I would vote for CDU - but currently I am not satisfied with any established political party. The only alternative (parties that are in the Bundestag) for me would be to vote for Die Linke (extreme left; communistic background) if I wanted to vote against the Euro project. As you may guess - that is out of the question. Sahra Wagenknecht is one of their best candidates. She is very charismatic, very intelligent and held some excellent speeches. In a way I can respect her - but I also think she is one of the most dangerous people in my country. I don't trust that party or anybody involved in that party. Knowing that Wagenknecht is also a Stalinist. Something which I find absolutely terrible. Champagne socialist comes to mind.
---
Thanks for the link. I will check it out.
Hmmm, how comes that Germany payed all the obligations of Marshall plan in 1948 -
BEFORE the "Währungsunion" ...
Importance of the Marshall plan is pretty much relative. The growth of the capital of the Reich ammounts just something about 1700% ...
Noone ever found the Nazi-money. Me thinks they haven't been searching hard enough, respectivly, the prosecutors of Nuerenberg Trials were not allowed to ask a right questions.
And there we are - hallo, Mr. Prescott Bush ...
Balkans was a frontier among the two worlds - and people were dieing for the clash of those worlds. Nowhere else fled more blood in the history ... Greece never had even a 30 years of peace ... and know -there'l be a war.
Just a couple of thoughts. You sound like Hamburg :-P
Things need to get out of control so people wake up and smell the coffee beans.
Just let's be sure not to trust American money or anyone with affiliation to American money when we start the revolution.
Follow the source and always consider - Qui Bono?
Our enemy is NOT located within the confines of the European continent. Our enemy is also not located in the vast mountains of the Hindukkush. Our greatest threat to the welfare of our citizens and to our quality of life is located on 1600 Penn. and The Company in McLean, VA.
Always remember that.
...and then walküre said
Good so far...
I'll agree that these marionettes are no friends of humanity. However, our greatest threat is the gang of ventriloquists pulling the puppets' strings.
A German journalist was attacked with acid this year
any link to that?
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=...
If you speak German:
http://www.zeit.de/2011/41/WOS-Naxos
Don't have an English article about that incident. To be fair, she doesn't blame the Greek people. But stories like this one aren't helpful for their tourism.
I know there are an awful lot of yanks who masturbate over Greek historical fantasies, but to me it's a shit country with questionable tastes in philosophers and heroes who practiced infanticide and ritual paedophilia. That's real history, not your Hollywood bullshit. If that is the cradle of Western civilisation and democracy, then we're all fucked.
This may be a very wide brush with which to paint a whole nation, but modern Greeks are little better than their ancestors. Crimes against the non-Greek population are rife - immigrants face daily robberies, beatings and murders. It is also the rape and sexual assault capital of Europe. More British tourists report these heinous crimes in Greece than at any other holiday destination in the world, and considering Britons travel the whole world over, including 3rd world hell holes, it should tell you volumes about what the Greeks really think of outsiders.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/14/greece.internationalcrime
They should never have joined the EU, let alone the Eurozone. Successive Greek parliaments have treated the Maastricht Treaty as a joke, and their sense of fiscal responsibility has been the same as a poor, halfwit trash after winning the lottery. I am not going to mince my words - these Greeks are shameless and insane. They still think they are "owed" something by the rest of Europe, or they want to default on their obligations without going out of the Eurozone and thereby bankrupt all 17 nations in the common currency. Fucking crazy. They don't even seem to know that their austerity programs with the Drachma, if they take that route, will make their current fiscal proposals look like living in the land of milk and honey. The dumb fucks.
I long for the days when the EU was just the Common Market, but since we're in this situation, and there's absolutely no way to resolve the Eurozone crisis any time soon - except to kick it further down the road, it would be much better to kick Greece out of the Eurozone NOW, close the borders, let the banks absorb their losses if they can, and if not, they can fold up like any other bankrupt business. We'll probably see half a dozen or more major banks fold, but somebody else will always take their place in a free market. I know all of the current mess stems from the fact that it is not really about "saving" Greece, but saving certain banks (Including central banks), so what we really need is someone with the political backbone to go head-to-head with these real problems and let the bankers who gambled wrong pay the price for their mistakes, while protecting the tax paying public from the fallout, and preserving the political union in the spirit of the Common Market. Tall order.
Ah, the dreams of utopian Europa. And Now back to the regularly scheduled programs. Series 1.... 'I'll kill those motherfuckers'.
Those leaders puppets are making sure that the system will be pressed to its ultimate extents, fully saturated, deeper and deeper into debt.
First, imbalances are allowed, because the few can profit from it.
It leads to growing problem, but who cares: the profits go to the few.
If a problem is profitable for the few, they make sure to feed it into a monstrous problem, under the pretense of addressing its issues.
Suffering is allowed, so the profits of the few are maximized under the weight of austerity.
A radical solution is finally introduced. One that coincidently constitutes itself is the very ultimate goals… of the few.
Rise of the Fourth Reich!
only to be headed by the publicity-shy real heads behind the power of the FED and JPM. Anything else, such as national power anywhere in the EU is beyond risiculous.
rise of the virtuous german economic model; their limitation is demographics and export model.
Yeah...
Heil Bernank !
BUY---->TUR
Reforming the Central Powers after 100 years.
Many of the comments on this article display either a large amount of sarcasm or an even larger amount of ignorance. I would like to think it is the former since the simple act of finding and reading Zero Hedge displays a certain level of intellect. Who here can actually believe any of this farce has been for the benefit of the Greeks. If you have been paying any attention at all you know that this has all been to benefit the banksters. If Greece defaults, the banks default. The Greeks certainly have their problems, as all humans do, but they have every reason to be infuriated at this absurd situation where they are clearly getting shafted. They should emulate the sensible people of Iceland and tell their leaders and Europe to kiss their collective asses.
Toolshed, I thing this was designed in some "small country", and cooked up in Brussels, to be finally denied by the puppet greek gov't.
Otherwise, the banksters would have huge margin calls.
Another theater. Final act shall be a tragedy.
"They should emulate the sensible people of Iceland and tell their leaders and Europe to kiss their collective asses."
It really is that easy. It is what we all should do. The whole system is built on fraud. The common greek is not responsible for their leaders' crooked decisions to lie to get in on the Euro. They need to prosecute the folks who arranged that and say "fuck you" to the debt. There is no rule of law. Restore that and something good could happen.
It is all odious debt. It doesn't even matter what country you're talking about, or whether the debt is a result of IMF "assistance", Federal Reserve Clownbux printing, or invertibrate eurocrats waffling in Belgium. The goal has always been to create a permanent stream of interest income for the lenders by getting everyone into so much debt that it can never be paid down. Perpetual debt leads to perpetual interest payments, and leveraging the greed of corrupt politicians has enabled the lenders to enslave entire nations at a time.
The only way out is to recognize it as odious debt, repudiate all of it, tell the lenders and their political cronies to fuck themselves, and make sure that the surviving criminals are genuinely grateful just to be alive.
The bankers have given us a choice: slavery or death. My recommendation is to choose death - theirs.
Agreed, but they managed to involve the pensions of the public in this game and it will take a lot of idealism by the sleeping public to rage war against the capital elite by trashing their ever decreasing pensions promises.
the tragedy is that democracy is dead, and not only in Greece.
I'd take imprisonment, but I doubt they will stick around and make it that easy for us.
The only other thing I can think of is to create a competing law enforcement system. It would look vigilante at the start, but a group of us, following the constitution, acting honorably, enforcing the law. I know, a girl can only dream.
Hey! At least you can vote... If that has any value any more?
I like it, a system based on the rule of law. No one above it and no one below it. No crony capitalism, no nepotism, no special favors. If you work hard, you succeed. We're probably already on 'the list' for dreaming. See you in the yard, MsC.
Stooge gets it:
The only way out is to recognize it as odious debt, repudiate all of it, tell the lenders and their political cronies to fuck themselves, and make sure that the surviving criminals are genuinely grateful just to be alive.
MsCreant does not seem to get it ... she still long dreams for the "rule of law" ... under what rules are we playing is the question???
I agree debt forgiveness won't change corruption, moral hazard will just rot the whole thing again.
yeah, right ... dadada...
Oh, how about basic rules like "don't steal." Or "don't lie." Basics like that. Most of the deals done out there would be null and void simply because they have been done based on mark to fantasy rather than mark to market values for assets. That is fraud. If a deal is done fraudulently, it should not stand.
Greece and Italy had the help of Goldman Sachs to hide their debt in situations that disguised the debt as an asset when they were applying for membership in the EU. That has ZIP to do with retirement ages or the work ethic of Greeks or Germans or whoever you want. It does have to do with not giving a shit about honoring the rules. If I know you can't pay, I will probably not loan you the money. I can give it to you, but that is my choice if that is what I want to do.
Most of the deals need to be voided because almost all of them were made under fraudulent circumstances. That is not debt forgiveness. Prosecutions for the fraudsters.
Where do you see the problem? I am not trying to have an attitude, I'd like to understand what you see.
well, i dont think the issue is about "prosecuting" the scapegoats .... if we accept your version, Greece or italy for that matter were not that much sophisticated to cook the books...if GS did it for them you really think that was a secret?
when you say prosecution for fraudsters, I am afraid you are not going after the real fraudster but after the scapegoat ...
Perhaps I am naïve, but I would go after the Goldman Sachs folks, at the highest level I could make it stick, and the Greek politicians. For Italy, ditto. I cannot bring myself to see GS as a scapegoat.
Who should we go after?
Greece lied about their finances to get into the EU. Then they borrowed tons of money they never intended to repay knowing other countries would have to. Yes, the ruling class benefited disproportionately but a large percent was distributed all over the population in the form of do-nothing govenment jobs. They are an embarassment to EU and to humans everywhere - a country almost entirely populated by thieving liars of the lowest order. I can't see how that will ever change especially since they are getting paid far more to be that way then they were ever able to produce on their own by a factor of at least 10.
mjk0259,
Correction,
Is it not up to the LENDER to do the DUE DILIGENCE?.( EU should have audited them down to their asscraks,prior to allowing them IN)
(I agree Greece deserves nothing from other taxpayers, in other soverign nations).
The EU screwed the pooch, by not uniting all the countries into ONE big happy family, before introducing the Euro.
Then,it would be similar to the states relationship here in the USA.Where all taxes collected are doled out from ONE point, and paid in at that same point.(IRS/FedTreserve)
KNOWING that these nations would NEVER give up their Soverignty as nation states, they suck the big one NOW.
Biting the hand that feeds!
"It's a dog bite, on my leg. It's not right, s'posed to beg..."
Spanish, Italian and Greek met in bar.
Greek asks "How long for you it takes to fix TV of client"?
Spanish answers - we say manjana, which means soon. 3-4 weeks usually.
Italian says - we also usually say manjana, and it takes 3-4 months.
Greek thinks a little bit and says - we say manjana, but we fix it without your element of hastiness and urgency.
The uniform is not even German Wehrmacht. Dumbass Greeks!
Good for the Greeks.
Germany did not do this out of the goodness of its heart. In fact if you look at German relations with its neighbors the last few hundred years, “goodness” is not a word that comes to mind. Nor “heart.”
They did it to keep their export ponzi going.
This is a nation that 70 years ago was herding human beings into ovens. The greatest human disassembly line in history.
Inside each Mercedes-making, nuclear-hating, green-loving peacenik over there is a goose-stepping, master-race-believing, totalitarian slave master.
Time and again the world has been burned trusting Germany. Trust that bunch at your own peril.
There seem to be quite a few FOH's (Friends of Hitler's) on this very thread.
There are very few National Socialists on this site, comrade.
Nah, just redneck teenage nazi wanabees ...
ZHedgers have a couple of real Nazis here, but they don't troll, there fascism is real, rock solid and not a bore ... they have their freakin' concept and they live it, konsequently.
One must not like, but as long they don't shoot or deploy some gas, it's OK :-P
Piss on Greeks!
I got to live with poor germans for a few months. My take is their people trust their government less than the rest of us.
The Zionist viewpoint never changes. Always unuseful, generally very dangerous and consistently untrue.
It’s the monopoly media, deliberately stirring the people up.
It’s so easy to draw a cartoon or to use photoshop that pictures Merkel in a Nazi uniform. And it’s so easy for the western press to pick it up. But to then use anecdotal items as the feeling of the Greek people is not evidence of how the people really feel. It’s propaganda. It’s crazy.
Millions died - including Americans, Englishmen and Germans - during the 21st Century because of banker-financed economic manipulation, pitting nation against nation, and war. It was the bankers and politicians and the propaganda, then as now, that set in motion the great waves of antagonistic emotions in WWI against the Germans -- to sweep the United States into war.
It is Josef Ackermann and the globalist businesses, again, that want to keep the Eurozone intact, who want the fiat-money banking system to prevail that makes world government possible, that allows central bankers to finance war and gain world power…. If the Eurozone question were up to Europeans or the Germany people, the latter would go back to the Deutsch mark and forget the Eurozone. But it’s not…
Jerome E. Roos explains the situation in How the Banksters Led Europe to Ruin :
“Meet Jean-Claude Trichet and Josef Ackermann. The former is the departing head of the European Central Bank and recently was ranked one of the five most powerful people in the world by Newsweek. The latter is the head of the largest private bank in the eurozone, Deutsche Bank, and was just named the “most powerful banker in Europe” by the New York Times. Neither was elected to run the economy. Yet, together, they do.
“In fact, both men have been instrumental in shaping the EU policy response to the crippling debt crisis that continues to haunt the eurozone. As the Times reported in a powerful feature June 15, 2011, Mr. Ackermann ‘is at the center of more concentric circles of power than any other banker on the continent.’”
Ackermann is Chairman of the Management Board and Group Executive Committee of Deutsche Bank AG and is a Steering Committee member of The Bilderberg Group, and like Trichet, is Jewish. The stated goal of this globalist elite group is to bring about a global financial system with a one-world currency…
Nothing has changed. Either self-government is to be salvaged from what remains of the private market economy and freedom, or what remains is slavery.
it was russia that suffered the greatest losses in WWII.
I suppose that could be argued. But it could also be argued that Hitlers victory would have been a victory for ethnic Russians as well.
Nobody despises the global banking criminals more than me, or wants to see it completely closed down, nor more willing to OPENLY note that every single Federal Reserve chairman bar none has been Jewish, and how Jews are massively disproportionately inclined to banking and the financial ponzi world.
All that is true as can be.
But the German character is what it is. A ferociously ill-tempered people, inclined to feel superior, and many times has acted out their totalitarianism upon their neighbors.
So try and link me to Jews all you want, that won't work. I'm well aware that Jewish finger prints are on much of the mess we have today. But that doesn't stop the Germans from being what they are either.
OMG, you cannot be serious about that. From what experience with the general German public do you get this? In face of the real geopolitical situation, I would think this is BS. Apart from that, there is some shizophrenia in your argument, as you either blame national power aspirations rooted in the minds and cuilture of the public for the actions of their representative elite or you make it class blame game and make the elite or capital responsible for taking over power in any area of life. But directing anger at the class elite and at nations and cultures puts you in a corner of people with very little selfasteem
I'm not going to try and convince you of my qualifications to make my assertions. Your oh so loaded with self esteem self can either agree or disagree with them, no matter. We all have our point of view.
Holy fucking shit.
Sure, it's just an opinion, and that I did respect explicitly, but firstly multi-dimensional overlapping anger against entities surrounding you just states some fear or feeling of disrespect and secondly, any educated person would search for other incentives than declaring a very diverse group of individuals with very diverse social situations to being one evil entity for genetic reasons.
From a politician, I would expect this, from a PR person also, from a coporate interest if needed, but not from an educated individual with some conscience for the fatality of ideology.
So let's see .. no self esteem, lack of education .. any other personal attacks you need to make? Oh you educated esteem filled diplomat you.
See, I am not attacking you, I would expect something different from a person with education and self-esteem. As you are interested and contribute to this, as I stated, I generally consider you to be educated and of some self-esteem, but the totalitarian, scientifically falsified and generalized statements put you in the corner with a group of people you probably do not consider yourself part of. So, please, understand my point, no personal attacking, just creating awareness of what you spill out in public.
You've got nothing.
But hey, i'll be so arrogant to actually play into your smallminded argument of superiority (though, in my case personal superiority - i'm not proud of my nation or any other nation)..... i'll explain how you actually came to your errorneous conclusion:
It has to do with the cultural mindset of germans, and how that translates to the economy. German culture tends to be biased towards:
- Solving things with (conceptual as well as physical) machines
- Being conformist
Both has a lot of disadvantages - it among other things is the reason for typical german buerocracy, lack of flexibility, and the population accumulating way too much anger before revolting.
It however also lends itself ideally to anything that requires high intellect and collective unity... like for example: industry.
This has in history again and again made germany a nation with high economic influence.
But since influence isn't unlimited, but rather a matter of "power-distribution", that means that other countries get less influence.... which then makes people like you look at history and say "look, germans are arrogant - they repeatedly in history ended up playing an influential role. It's in their 'nature'! (really, that ALWAYS works! Appeal to that imaginary god, called 'nature'!)"
Now, go on succumbing to racism and appeals to "nature", without understanding the totally boring causes of what you're seeing.
BTW: Did i already mention that germans hated the EUR immediatelly after introduction and if it were about them, they'd have left the EMU stage right away?
Sounds like a plausable explanation of the German character, I can buy that.
But what I said in the original post was this:
"This is a nation that 70 years ago was herding human beings into ovens. The greatest human disassembly line in history.
Inside each Mercedes-making, nuclear-hating, green-loving peacenik over there is a goose-stepping, master-race-believing, totalitarian slave master.
Time and again the world has been burned trusting Germany. Trust that bunch at your own peril."
And I didn't hear a single thing from you deep thinkers that would change my view on that. Now obviously in a nation of 82 million people I wasn't literal about it for each and every individual. It wasn't true of Oscar Schindler or of course many other decent Germans. But it is true on average. And if part of the reason WHY it is true is rooted in the psychology around the 2 items you site, I can buy that as well. I frankly never really knew why it was true, and wasn't passing myself off as an expert on the German psyche.
I didn't reply to that, because there is no evidence for that, besides of that hitler episode.
The burden of proof is on the one claiming that something does exist, not on those claiming that it doesn't exist.
But the irony is - i actually have ammunition against something that doesn't exist.
It goes like this.... basically your only argument, is the events of the 20th century....... well, you picked a rather bad argument there, because..... if you had any practical experience with german culture, you'd know that the events of the 20th century resulted in germans being pulled away from it. The indoctrination following those events was so intensive, that most people with no experience of german culture cannot imagine just how anti-war and racism-aware the german culture is.... actually, i'd claim that currently, germany is the most warcrime and racism-aware nation on the entire planet!
That is why people argueing for "germany will invade X" have no fucking clue at all what they're talking about..... even if central planners would embark on a fast-track de-indoctrination and false-flag path, it would take them at MINIMUM 10 years to get the population willing to succumb to racism and starting wars again. That's how much it has been hammered into their minds by now cross-generation. If anything, currently, if any escalation of racism and aggression happens, it will be everyone except of germany starting it.
How many times has Germany invaded their neighbors since 1948?
How many times has Israel invaded their neighbors since 1948?
Your two descriptions of the German people almost appear to be written by two different people except the one ingredient they have in common, affixing blame on German character in general. This is the foundation for the Zionist views from Europe to Tel Aviv to The New York Times.
Actually, if you ask Lord John Maynard Keynes if the U.S. could be blamed for the Third Reich, he would say, “Yes.” Keynes warned that the heavy reparations Germany would be forced to pay until 1988 by the Allied Powers in the Treaty of Versailles after WWI, were excessive and counterproductive, and would force Germany, out of starvation and desperation, to war. Excessive greed by nations or market insiders is destructive.
And we can't "blame" the German people for the election of Hitler. In the second round of the 1932 election (Weimar Republic law provided that a candidate needed to receive an absolute majority of votes), the people elected Paul von Hindenburg of the Independent Party. Hindenburg, under political pressure, appointed Hitler as Chancellor of Germany in January 1933.
Hitler succeeded Hindenburg as head of state only two years later, when Hindenburg's death brought his term to a premature end in 1934. After the president's death Hitler abolished the office entirely to replace it with the new position of Führer und Reichskanzler ("Führer and Reich Chancellor"), and cement his dictatorship.
The greed cemented into the Treaty of Versailles led to Germany’s 1923 hyperinflation and forced the impoverishment that led, ultimately, to WWII, as Keynes said it would.
Reparations paid by Germany ended only last year.
On December 10, 2010, The New York Times wrote: “NOT many people noticed at the time, but World War I ended this year. Well, in a sense it did: on Oct. 3Germany finally paid off the interest on bonds that had been taken out by the shaky Weimar government in an effort to pay the war reparations imposed by the Treaty of Versailles.”
In addition, this from Wikipedia: In a Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany signed on September 10, 1952, “reparations would become a decisive part of Israel's income, comprising as high as 87.5% of the state income in 1956,” according to Wikipedia.
Later, “on behalf of US citizens, the US Foreign Claims Settlement Commission reached agreements with the German government in 1998 and 1999 to compensate Holocaust victims who immigrated to the US after the war...
“In 2009, Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz announced that he will demand a further 450 million to 1 billion Euros in reparations from Germany on behalf of some 30,000 Israeli forced labor survivors. Israel has also sought large discounts on the purchase of two German-built MEKO warships.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_Agreement_between_Israel_and_West_Germany
True in meaning, but not completely true regarding the events. There was an election, in which the NSDAP won, in 1933 a bit after the appointment. However, at the point where that election was held, germany was basically already under emergency laws, and the NSDAP had via special laws already the ability to not only supress the opposition, but outrightly hunt it. So, the election was about as meaningful, as an election in a dictatorship.
So, technically, hitler got elected - but only after he already got near dictatorship powers via nondemocratic means.
LOL Funny!
Without "the ovens" there would neither be a Zionist State nor a world population enslaved to an eternal debt machine supporting that State.
I understand them, it is Ochi day.
In Greece, they remember the day when Metaxas was attacked by Mussolini.
Greek austerity will be the countries undoing. Haircuts are pointless.
Howard W. Campbell Jr. would have been whelmed.
China has its own problems:
<< Mingpao reports that Shanghai government has banned China Overseas Land (688.HK) from cutting prices by 30% after angry homeowners went to smash things in the sales office. Regulator reportedly said that such discount is “obviously violating the regulation”, and now any projects which are offering more than 20% discount should be re-filed to the regulators before sales.>>
http://www.alsosprachanalyst.com/real-estate/its-official-shanghai-bans-...
The mistrust of banks and government is causing them big problems. They have thier faith in Real Estate. And likewise will likely come out the other side understanding just how unreal real estate is once they connect it to the bigger system.
Opposition parties blasted the landmark agreement, with conservatives warning it condemned the country to ‘nine more years of collapse and poverty’.
Nine years? They are optimistic.
So Germans after destroying the enitre planet with World Wars then they get a free Marshal plan they rebuild their economy (I REPEAT WITH FREE MONEY) and now they threaten all the Euro nations with austerity to death and there are fucking idiots here who support them?
PIIGS might be in debt but at least they didnt kill innocent souls.. So fuck off all of you nazis here.
one can only assume you're towing the line for native americans as well?
"You must understand that this war is not against Hitler or National Socialism, but against the strength of the German people, which is to be smashed once and for all, regardless whether it is in the hands of Hitler or a Jesuit priest." (Emrys Hughes, Winston Churchill, His Career in War and Peace p. 145)
Have not the German people suffered enough from prejudice by those who use Hitler and false accusatins to claim the German populace was “keen to go along for the ride”? How long will it be before the accusations and the ill will against the German people come to an end?
Consider developments after WWII:
In 1947, a defeated, divided, truncated, occupied Germany was a mass of rubble, its economy a desperate scratching for subsistence.
Although the Marshall Plan enabled Germany’s people to rebuild a free society and a free economy, a predecessor blueprint for genocide became the on-going principal occupation policy directive – a policy that aimed at the destruction of a nation’s people. It was the Morganthau Plan, drawn up by America’s wartime Secretary of the Treasury, Henry Morganthau and his closest advisory, Harry Dexter White (a member of a Communist espionage ring in Washington while he served as Assistant Secretary of State).
It aimed at the permanent destruction of Germany’s industrial heart and the consequent death through starvation and disease of millions and tens of millions of Germans.
Time magazine has aptly called it “history’s most terrifying peace”.
The conservative newsletter, Review of World Affairs, quotes the plight of the German people after the war as follows from a confidential memorandum prepared by an eminent European economist:
“Since the end of the war about 3,000,000 people, mostly women and children and over-aged men, have been killed in eastern Germany and south-eastern Europe; about 15,000,000 people have been deported or had to flee from their homesteads and are on the road. About 25 per cent of these people, over 3,000,000, have perished. About 4,000,000 men and women have been deported to eastern Europe and Russia as slaves….” Quoted by Sen. Homer Capehart in speech before U.S. Senate, Feb. 5, 1946.
Dr. Lawrence Meyer, executive secretary of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, after a tour of Germany at the time stated:
“About 16,000,000 German refugees east of the Oder are being deported from their homes. It has been estimated that already 10,000,000 have been driven out. The human tragedy and suffering caused by this ’Volkswanderung’ are unparalleled in history…”
An authentic eye-witness reported…
“A large barge is slowly being towed across the Oder River. In it, lying on straw, are 300 children ranging from 2 to 14 years of age. There is hardly a sign of life in the whole group. Their hollow eyes, their swollen bellies, knees, and feet are telltale signs of starvation. These are merely the vanguard of hundreds of thousands—millions of homeless, shattered, hungry, sick, helpless, hopeless human beings fleeing westward – west of the Oder and Neisse rivers.
“A trust in God—in his goodness and mercy—these are the only hope of Germany today. And thank God in many there is still faith in God against which the gates of hell have stormed in vain during the past decade.” (Capehart
Right... those big bad Germans were completely responsible for both wars. No one else was complicit or anything.
There's no such thing as a FREE LUNCH, you idiot. That's all there is to say and that's all you need to know for now.
Don't think you can handle much more.
hourglass86 brought this to the table:
All governments kill innocent souls; it's the nature of politicians. Many people mistakenly focus their anger on various nations without realizing that the proper recipient of their anger should be the governments of various nations.
Focusing on nationalities is pointless and futile, as it is just another divide and conquer strategy employed by the owners of governments. The bottom 99 percent of humanity all have the following in common: their government doesn't give a shit what they think and doesn't care if they live or die.
American aid to Germany (in contrast to grants given to other countries in Europe) had to be repaid. But under the London debts agreement of 1953, the repayable amount was reduced to about $1 billion. Aid granted after 1951 amounted to around $270 million, of which Germany had to repay $16.9 million to the Washington Export-Import Bank. Germany did not know until 1953 exactly how much money it would have to pay back to the U.S., and insisted that money was given out only in the form of interest-bearing loans ensuring the funds would grow rather than shrink. A lending bank was charged with overseeing the program. European Recovery Program loans were mostly used to support small- and medium-sized businesses. Germany paid the U.S. back in installments (the last check was handed over in June 1971). However, the money was not paid from the ERP fund, but from the central government budget..So, the Marshal Plan was not free, at least not for Germany. If not for Joe Stalin's grabbing his way towards the West, Germany would have had the Morgenthau Plan, not the Marshal Plan!
Hey baby, I bet you were really something before electricity!
Hey, if you wear a uniform like that, they'll give you a free bowl of soup--?--- But, hey, looks good on you, though! (makes face)
Hey Wang, c'mon.... it's a parking lot!
Germany got played. Greece is the winner. They have the global economy by the balls and can now do anything they want. Germany/China/US got forked and sacrified a queen instead of pawn. Moral hazard has gone logarithmic.
Perhaps Germans in Bavaria and Schleswig-Holstein would be better off in some respects if they joined Switzerland and Denmark, respectively? :D
And why not give the Greeks a 70 % haircut on condition that they leave the Eurozone and get no more regular aid from other EU countries, which they up to now have received for the past 30 years?
Bavaria would go with Austria and Tirol, Milano
Baden Württemberg with Switzerland
North West with the Dutch
Schleswig Holstein with Denmark
Greece has to learn to adapt to its cash flow position. Raise taxes, reduce spending.
Wrong.
Austria and both Tyrols go with Germany.
Switzerland goes with Germany.
BeNeLux goes with Germany.
Denmark goes with Germany.
Overly optimistic, outsiders do not comprehend that Hamburg or Bremen are very English. It is a federal republic. I am still a proud Prussian, which does not exist.
And what is the reality ?
Last week 5000 Germans travelled to Greece to attend the football (soccer) Champions League Game "Athens" against "Borrussia Dortmund" , the present German champion. The game was very interesting, the spectators were peaceful and I did not hear from any ugly accident. Unfortunately the Germans lost but maybe this was the right message for the Greeks that the Germans are also just cooking with water.
The newspapers or TV stations in Germany are all in full control of the US. You will find very very seldom an alternative voice when it comes to politics. They are all 150 % pro US goverment.
I bet the farm, that in Greece the situation is exactly the same or even worse but its hard to top 150% I know. So what you read in the press in Greek now is just propaganda from the propaganda ministry. Joseph Goebels is greeting from hell.
by the way the saying: He/she is a "150 percenter" originates from Germanys Nazi past. It was the common people using this term to express the opinion that you can not trust a person. It meant to that time: Be careful with this guy he is a dedicated Nazi.
Correct,
these stories make me puke. Not everybody in Germany was a fanboy of the Austrian guy with a moustache. Some fought with Greek resistance. What it this fuss all about? Greece faces a long facist history too. Not all of them, got the message?
The Greeks are desperate pulling out the nazi card...reminds me of OJ's defense team using the race card.
@supermaxedout -
yep - i can attest for greek press - it is 200% coming from the ministry upstairs... suspected the same for germany .... but hey, what's new right???
everything is going according to plan...
Now " Fraulein Merkle", has her warm water ports back ehhh.
Greeks: "Sweet... now that all that debt has been forgiven, it's time to start spendin' again!!!"
Germans <-- Suckers
I cant believe Germany went along with this shit, I dont know who was promised what, but it must be a doozie.
Why did china went along with this shit? Why did the USA went along with this shit? Why did the PIIGS go with this shit?
And how far into it, did people voice dissatisfaction and that they'd rather have the old way back? How long ago was that?
If populations were to vote about this global network of sadomaso relationships, the scheme would collapse in no time. Which is to say: It is NOT sustained via democratic means... it is sustained via quasi-dictatorship, in that people do not get to decide such policies directly.
The bailout has no chance of working unless the Greek public buys in.
The EU needs to announce that unless the Greek government shows that more than 60% of Greeks support the package the EU will simply cut Greece loose. Greece could then stay in the Euro or leave as it chooses and the bondholders will get what the bond holders get.
The resulting chaos should smarten up a few people in Italy.
I agree. When the first ATM in Athens goes on strike..., Athens, we have a problem.
Angie, just send them a Knobelbecher full of shredded Ostmarks as your personal contribution to the Greek bailout.
Lurching full retard into the weekend, just great!
Excellent comment! +~
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-new-reality-for-u-s-citi...
But it is not just Detroit that is having a major problem. Over in Highland Park, Michigan the majority of the street lights have been repossessed because the city was not keeping up with the electricity bill.
Down in St. Louis, parents in some areas are carrying golf clubs with them as they walk their kids to school in order to fend off roving packs of wild dogs.
In an extraordinary article entitled "City of Ruins", Chris Hedges did an amazing job of documenting how bad things have gotten in Camden. Today it is estimated that the actual rate of unemployment in Camden is somewhere around 30 or 40 percent. For most young people in Camden, there are very few legitimate opportunities for a better life, so many of them have resorted to selling drugs or selling their bodies in a desperate attempt to survive.
The following is a brief excerpt from "City of Ruins"....
There are perhaps a hundred open-air drug markets, most run by gangs like the Bloods, the Latin Kings, Los Nietos and MS-13. Knots of young men in black leather jackets and baggy sweatshirts sell weed and crack to clients, many of whom drive in from the suburbs. The drug trade is one of the city's few thriving businesses. A weapon, police say, is never more than a few feet away, usually stashed behind a trash can, in the grass or on a porch.
http://www.businessinsider.com/national-league-of-cities-revenue-collaps...
72% of cities are making layoffs this year, on top off big layoffs for the past two years
can someone please call "The International Criminal Court" for arresting all of GOLDMAN SACHS banksters for crimes against humanity?
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/28/world/africa/libya-saif-al-islam/index...
Now we are seeing the knuckle under phase of the central bank protection racket. We can expect to see the velvet glove come off the iron fist threat of currency collapse.
http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/the-never-never-land-of-socialism-update-10282011/
Fits her nicely.
A few years back when I visited Greece, they where mocking Europe for funding all their excesses.
"Look, that building was paid by Europe, that one to and those to! Hahahahaha". It worked on my nerves like you can't imagine.
WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY EXPECT?!!
LAZY FUCKS!!
And appx 70% of the EU infrastructure funds come from Germany.
There are since years I think appx 100 Million Euros ready available for Greek to be spend on Greece infrastructure. The Greek administration is not willing or capable to make the planning and to start the projects. You know why? There is nothing in there for them most probably.
It needs a real capital injection of 2T into Euro system to write off debt. Who has 2T avaiable?
Simple : the Oligarchs in their tax havens. ...Thats the treasure trove. Get those 10-20T back into real economy by stringing up a few Oligarchs and closing down the tax haven brothels. Worldwide.
Pie in the sky?
In the meantime in Euroland the four most scary words today : 'Berlusconi holds the keys!' ....Imagine that, its the real iceberg in Euroland!
Who has 2T avaiable?
I woudl also say the off shore tax havens...but when all is said and onde. I think even those wont cover the offsire losses moved there.
I think Goldman Sachs has 56 Trillion in derivatives.
I am sure they can spare 2 Trillion ;-)
Check out Reggie Midlleton's research, derivaties also = leveraged losses.
The deeper it goes the worse this thing smells.