This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Alasdair Macleod: All Roads In Europe Lead To Gold

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Chris Martenson

Alasdair Macleod: All Roads In Europe Lead To Gold

This week we bring back Alasdair Macleod, publisher of Finance and economics.org, because, as he puts it "every horror that we discussed last time we spoke is coming about". Especially scary since our previous conversation with him was less than three weeks ago...

Today's interview continues building on his excellent synopsis from last month that detailed the origins of the Eurozone crisis. The fundamental shortcomings warned of at the Euro's creation in 1997, combined with the excessive sovereign debts run up since then, have finally expressed themselves at a scale too large to be contained any longer.

Today, Alasdair details in-depth the huge and serious challenges facing Greece and the major Eurozone countries, and the likely impacts of the fast-dwindling options left remaining.

He sees no happy ending to this story, no outcome in which serious pain and permanent behavior change can be avoided. And for those looking for shelter from the unfolding economic storm, he sees few options besides the precious metals (which he believes are severely under priced at the moment): 

Greece

The Greek situation is entirely predictable: when you force enormous pressures on an economy and try and raise taxes from the private sector -- a private sector which isn’t used to paying taxes because usually they find away around it -- you start cutting pensions, you start cutting this, cutting that, and the people revolt. They haven’t a clue what they are doing, but we get the revolt nonetheless. It looks like nobody there can form a government; and it looks like there will be another election probably in June. That won’t resolve anything unless by some miracle, some sense gets knocked into people’s heads.

 

The other thing, which nobody has mentioned, is that there are about 90 billion dollars in derivative contracts involved in the Greek economy. This is not just government, but also local governments and towns and cities and all the rest of it. The counterparties to this $90 billion must be getting a bit worried about that, I would think because that looks as if it will default.

 

The people who have been most active in getting these derivative contracts going over time have been people like Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs and I suppose JP Morgan -- so you can see the problems aren’t just limited to the government and some unfortunate Greek citizens who are caught in the middle of this.

 

We are looking at potentially up to ninety billion dollars worth of derivatives which one side of those transactions is going to default. One side: it is not a balanced figure is it? I don’t know that it is necessarily as bad as that, but it is a problem that needs to be dealt with, addressed and contained. I think what they have to do as much as possible, is to try to work for a sensible outcome in this, which probably will involve Greece leaving the Eurozone, but maybe obtaining help from the ECB to set up a currency board. The reason I say that is that I think for Greece to return to the drachma would be complete destruction. You would have a situation where people who owe money in Euros would still owe money in Euros. If the Greek government tried to change that by law, for starts, that could only apply to loans taken out in Euros in Greece; whereas a lot of these have been taken out in Euros elsewhere in the European Union. In any event, I think if they tried to do a law on this, it would be a retroactive, which would be open to legal challenge.

 

Meanwhile, if you have deposits in a Greek bank, you can be sure the Greek government would say we are going to re-designate those into New Drachmas, which would impoverish the depositors. When it comes to trade, I think everybody would just stay well clear. To go back to a New Drachma, I think is the most destructive path Greece can have. Now, they could do that on the basis that, if the European Union wanted to make an example of Greece, then this is a way in which they could just let them go hang. The importance of that would be that the situation for Greece should be so bad that no other member of the Eurozone would contemplate leaving the Eurozone. That is a possibility. But I think that is less likely than coming to terms in such a way to give Greece an exit. But if they do get an exit, again, they’ve got to have an exit in such a way that it hurts enough and anybody else who wants to take that exit would see, well it is actually probably more painful than staying where we are. It is a very difficult balance to achieve.

 

The people who will do this, I don’t believe are the politicians. It would have to be the sensible people in the ECB and perhaps some of the more backroom boys who could put together some sort of face-saving mechanism without this becoming too much of a political hot potato. It is very, very tricky, it really is, and quite honestly, the way political governance has been going in Europe, the chances of them getting some sort of orderly withdraw in the interest of continuing relationships, et cetera, I think are actually probably slim. That is what we are up against: this is not easy. There is no precedence for this at all and I know that lots and lots of people are saying it has got to return to the Drachma; I just think that a New Drachma would collapse almost immediately. I think that a currency board in the Euro is actually a more sensible result given where we are.  

France

France is a mess. They have outstanding debt of 1.3 Trillion Euros, something like that. Their debt/GDP is around about 85-90% going on a hundred quite rapidly. That is a very liquid and nasty situation. Unemployment is running close to ten percent.

 

It is almost impossible to employ anyone in France because the taxes are so high. Do you know the total tax that you pay as an employer, more than doubles the salary that you pay an individual? This is absolute craziness, but it is been like that in France forever and a day. The result is an awful lot of the market is black market.

 Spain & Italy

Spain is a worse situation. Government debt alone is just under a trillion. A trillion dollars equivalent, I should say, and that is a lot of money. That is a lot of money. Italy is over two trillion dollars. That really is a very, very big one, so this contagion must not be allowed to happen. 

Germany

Their economy is performing reasonably well, but it is not performing well because they are doing well for Europe; they are doing well because they are selling the most cars, machine tools and everything else to China, to Brazil, to Russia. Africa’s a great growth area. Europe, as far as Germany is concerned is dead. Which of course brings us on another question; that is why should Germany continue to support all these bust Europeans? There is a sort of conscience if you like about the last two world wars, but there is going to come a point where that wears pretty thin I would have thought. The trouble is that it is all very well, everyone turning around and saying, Germany has to help. Actually, what they are saying is that Germany’s citizens should give up their savings, their hard won savings to rescue a project, which is obviously dead or deceased. I think Germany really should bust out as soon as possible and I am sure that there are an increasing number of businessmen and bankers in Germany who are beginning to feel that way. 

On Gold

People who have gold or silver, I think actually had a very rough ride over the last couple of months. A lot of them are wondering what on Earth is going on because every time you get good news, gold seems to rally along with equities, but every time there’s bad news and gold actually should be giving you some protection, it goes down the swanny.

 

I think the problem there is that the whole system is run by people who went to college and were taught keynesian economics. In my day, when I first went into the stock market and I enjoyed that first bull market in gold when it went from thirty-five bucks to eight-fifty, the traders and investment managers were all practical people. They all cut their teeth, all learned their trade the hard way. Some of them had degrees in college, but generally it would have been something like classics or history or something like that. If they got a degree in economics, they probably would have left because they never would have understood it in those days. But now it has changed. Everybody who is employed has a degree and if they are anything to do with investment strategy, or the investment business, it is all economics degrees. So they have been brainwashed in the keynesian thing. This sort of neoclassical approach where gold is yesterday’s story, paper money is the future. They really do believe it and it is the opinions of these people who drive the markets in the short term.

The result is that gold and silver have become very, very seriously mispriced. I don’t think I have seen a stretch like this as I can remember; by stretch, the difference between perhaps where it should be. We must be careful not to tell the market what the price should be, but it is so underpriced at a time of enormous systemic stress, that I think when gold and silver snap back into a more sensible, logical valuation relationship with the markets, the move actually could be very, very sharp and quite large. If gold ran up through the $2,000 level very quickly, which I think is a very strong possibility, because it is been held down so much, that could bring other problems. The central banks, who might have sold gold and not told us about it will find that they are embarrassed. I think also the bullion banks in London who operate a fractional reserve system with gold, exactly the same way as to do with any paper currency, will be hurt very, very badly on the run. Any shorts in the futures market equally could be hurt very, very badly. We have a situation, where there is a potential for a huge run in gold and I personally wouldn’t be surprised to see it.  

Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Alasdair Macleod (48m:07s):

iTunes: Play/Download/Subscribe to the Podcast
Download/Play the Podcast
Report a Problem Playing the Podcast

or Read the transcript here.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 02:35 | 2444557 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Here's a helpful link in converting grams to ounces, and 18k and 14k into .999 thinking - http://gold.yabz.com/jewelry.htm

Every once in a while I go to ebay and buy wedding bands (14k or 18k) that (1) has the 14k or 18k marked on the ring and (2) without any stones on it.

It takes a little work but (for example) I can buy at $1,400/oz when spot is $1,500/oz - you can buy under spot and it's another way to own gold.

I've found that when the market is trending down (like last week), bidders get fearful and dry up - but when the market is heading higher, more bidders.

Hope this helps.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:21 | 2445559 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

awesome, thank you.  I'm going to stack wedding rings ^_^  I've been digging through the ones with stones. fuck stones! gimme gold!

 

also if I ever get engaged/married there's this dude in my town who will melt down your gold and make wedding rings for you! my coworker is getting married and a month and she was telling me that he asked for only $20 to make them matching bands if they brought their own gold (of course she didn't have any) I was like $_$ !!!

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 01:39 | 2446540 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

I know how you feel about the silver stacking, although I can't help myself and keep doing it. But I'm running out of room in the rifle safe and I'm thinking 'wait a minute, 250lbs of silver, 5 rifles, 8 hand guns, 5 big ammo boxes with ammo for each rifle/gun in the boxes, I'm gonna need a mule to haul all this shit'

So gold does answer some of the portability problem - and diversity in gold (who knows what will be confiscatable in the eyes of the thieves - just coins, just bars, they wouldn't dare steal my grandma's/grandpa's old wedding rings, would they???????) is to offset the risk.

Good luck with the wedding ring buying - let us know how it turns out - once in a while a seller gets confused about grams/ounces/etc and you can score a nice deal.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 00:09 | 2444412 Likstane
Likstane's picture

You got tired stacking silver?  Did it just get tedious or did you physically give out?  How big are these pieces of silver you are stacking?  Are you debilitated in some way?  I don't know how long I would have to stack silver before I got tired, but I'm sure I could stack it for at least 3 hours; I love that smell of silver on my fingers after a hard session of stacking silver.  When the FEMA guys come get me I hope they put me to work in the silver mines so I can be up close and personal to those silver ingots just waiting to be harvested. 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 00:16 | 2444423 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

those monster boxes are heavy, brah

I keep my sealed too so it's less fun ;[ at lease I can fondle my dragons and pandas and meese

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:24 | 2444827 margaris
margaris's picture

Sigh.... some people....,

I could build a whole PYRAMID with monster boxes... I would make it the mission in my life....

maybe I wont finish it in my lifetime, so my children would continue the task....

 

Now.... if I only had 2 trillion monster boxes sitting somewhere unstacked.... so I could start the stacking.... aye-aye-aye!!!

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:42 | 2445031 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

If you get tired of stacking, you could just swage bullets out of them to keep the werewolves away...

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 00:31 | 2444443 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Get some guns that shoot 7.62 and get some dogs that eat humans.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:31 | 2445308 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I'm tired of stacking silver, I decided I'm going to stack junk gold jewelry from now on.  Any tips? What should I look for? 18kt, 14kt?

18k if you can get it, doubtful, 14k if your lucky.......that's the American std.And if you can get it, nearly all old CLASS rings are 10k, and if you can get em cheap..........I'd snag them as well.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:21 | 2445562 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

awesome, thank you

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 22:46 | 2444247 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

 

 

Maps of the Silk Road 

Wall street: If we don’t fucking turn all of those sand niggers into glass, we’ll never reach Dow 20,000.

Silent Voice: We have to continue debasing the universal currency first. Once all wealth is extracted, we can finish off the ME, which will include Israel.

Wall street:  Israel? I have property there. Why Israel?

Silent Voice: In order to forge expansions, casualties must be made. Besides, the coalition will be blamed.  

Wall street:  Coalition? You mean the terrorist right?

Silent Voice: No, the Coalition will be blamed this time.

 

Winks!

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 22:52 | 2444263 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Don't look now:

http://news.yahoo.com/earthquake-hits-eastern-japan-no-tsunami-warning-i...

Nice 3 paragraph links from yahoo lately.

Shake up the shitpot.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 00:47 | 2444461 oldman
oldman's picture

@rsnoble

Do you mean a 6.0 in Italy? The 5.9 off the coast of Honshu is just an aftershock from 2011    om

MAG UTC DATE-TIME
y/m/d h:m:s
LAT
deg
LON
deg
DEPTH
km
 Region MAP  5.1   2012/05/20 03:02:50    44.776    11.090  10.0   NORTHERN ITALY MAP  6.0   2012/05/20 02:03:52    44.800    11.192  5.1   NORTHERN ITALY MAP  5.1   2012/05/20 01:55:46    17.016    147.287  7.1   MARIANA ISLANDS REGION MAP  5.0   2012/05/19 22:23:22    52.079   -171.759  32.1   FOX ISLANDS, ALEUTIAN ISLANDS, ALASKA MAP  5.0   2012/05/19 20:06:02    3.283    128.120  54.0   NORTH OF HALMAHERA, INDONESIA MAP  5.9   2012/05/19 19:05:19    39.709    143.345  5.4   OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN MAP  5.9   2012/05/19 08:35:10   -25.783    -70.793  25.0   OFFSHORE ANTOFAGASTA, CHILE
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 03:30 | 2444659 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

So???
Irrelevant and boring, that's best I can say about your post.

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 22:52 | 2444265 pissing_excellence
pissing_excellence's picture

Earth, if it had nuts, they would be in a vice.  2 options- print or default, printing is defaulting but slower, it could be a year and a half from now, or 5 years even, Faber said 10 years.  Eventually announcements will come out, all sheepish and helpful, but they have printed the whole time. Lot of holes in that levee.

Im not worried, and neither should you, the daily price is what it is. 

AND FUCK YOUR METRO PINK TIE.

 

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 23:00 | 2444266 gnomon
gnomon's picture

Enjoy the ride because the destination will not be good, (golden or not).  Schadenfreude and possibly ventilating some deserving zombies will be the best kicks to be had, (and that ain't much by our current standards of over-the-top debauchery).

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 23:04 | 2444295 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Meanwhile they are all gathered together watching George Bush Jr. practicing his pronounciation of "philanthropy."

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 23:25 | 2444305 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"I think the problem there is that the whole system is run by people who went to college and were taught keynesian economics."

No.

When a (the?) critical mass of those-who-find-an-outlet-to-pontificate dispense with such thoughts, we'll have turned an appropriate corner.

There is nothing about "college" or "economics" or theory of any kind going on here.

There is Chaos.  The end-game of the Self-Absorbed.

Get with the picture.
Deal in reality, and dispense with popular everything.

Keynes is dead -- find a new theme.
Rise above the dead and gone and no-longer-applies.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 04:13 | 2444680 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

It's not Keynesianism at all. 

Keynesianism is just their cover story for massive looting. 

When Bernanke prints currency and gives it to the government, he's looting wealth from the people and giving it to the government.

And Keynesianism doesn't even apply to Wall Street bailouts.  So they have to come up with another cover story, "we gotta save the banks".   But it's same thing, looting wealth from the people and giving it to Wall Street bankers.

And no, none of that wealth will ever be given back to the people.

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 23:27 | 2444347 essence
essence's picture

Having listened to and read Alasdair Macleod for awhile now, I respect his opinion. However, his views on Greece's best option going forward, and if fact, polls among the Greek public themselves --- leave me to wonder if these folks in EU-land have any standing in reality. They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.

Alasdair is of the opinion the Greeks shouldn't move back to the drachma. And in fact, polling of Greek citizens opinion show the majority prefer to remain in the Euro (due to fear of going out on their own). Ahhh, do these people believe in fairy tales or something --- or the goodness of banksters?

The elites big Euro banks (and by extension... the EU government bodies and ECB) have shown they will sacrifice all that don't repay loans or toe the line to their control. Hasn't that sunk in by now? There is no middle ground.  It's either give the middle finger and the big FU to them and take the consequences, or live as serfs. Quite simply, they made a pack with the devil, sold their soul for easy money and a few decades of good life ... and now the devil wants his due.

Perhaps some out there in Zerohedge-land can explain some viable third option .

And yes, I acknowledge this situation, these options, pertain to all countries, including the U.S.
It's people against the bankers. The Greeks just happen to find themselves on the leading edge, but the situation is coming to us all.

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 23:30 | 2444356 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Goodnight John Boy

Goodnight Mary Ellen

Goodnight Jim Bob

Goodnight fractional reserve banking system

Goodnight Gold and Silver Bulls, we do sleep good, do we not ???

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:31 | 2445104 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

WOW, CreDes, great read, + 1!

Yes, but add Japan to the list...

 

Maybe buy GOLD is the best way out for us shrimps...

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 00:22 | 2444429 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

 By "down the swanny" he means "PPT'd".

Ps Fuck you Little Weasel Timmy .

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 01:09 | 2444465 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Whenever I look at the 10 year chart of the Euro all I see is Bubble. It is up 20 percent in comparison to the Dow Jones Average.  In my mind that makes the Dow super cheap.  Look at what the Dow represents (missing car company; Barry sold Chrysler to the Italians and GM flopped. Tesla has some potential though).  This also DOES NOT include Apple. Don't tell me the Euro is worth more than this bunch. 

Alcoa Inc. Common Stock
American Express Company Common
Boeing Company (The) Common Sto
Bank of America Corporation Com
Caterpillar, Inc. Common Stock
Cisco Systems, Inc.
Chevron Corporation Common Stoc
E.I. du Pont de Nemours and Com
Walt Disney Company (The) Commo
General Electric Company Common
Home Depot, Inc. (The) Common S
Hewlett-Packard Company Common
International Business Machines
Intel Corporation
Johnson & Johnson Common Stock
JP Morgan Chase & Co. Common St
Kraft Foods Inc. Common Stock
Coca-Cola Company (The) Common
McDonald's Corporation Common S
3M Company Common Stock
Merck & Company, Inc. Common St
Microsoft Corporation
Pfizer, Inc. Common Stock
Procter & Gamble Company (The)
AT&T Inc.
The Travelers Companies, Inc. C
United Technologies Corporation
Verizon Communications Inc. Com
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. Common St
Exxon Mobil Corporation Common

 

 

Yes Germany has a positive net export balance as does the rest of Europe, but this cannot continue. Once the Euro goes back to where it was .83 cents to the dollar the will be less profitable. 

 

But I can assure you if you do want Europe to infact Profit keep buying gold and BMW's and Audis and Mercedes. Have fun

 

Steve Jobs wanted to design an Icar:

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57436643-37/forget-the-itv-steve-jobs-...

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 01:32 | 2444503 knowshitsurelock
knowshitsurelock's picture

Those arn't US companies, but are global conglomerates ownd by globalists with no national affiliations whatsoever.  The idea of value and individual stock ownership is just for the slaves on the plantation to "think" they are free and can own a piece of the rock, but that is all an illusion.

Just because our hamster wheels have flashing lights and now come with a blanket and a pillow doesn't make us any less slaves.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 01:56 | 2444519 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Then I must not be a slave.  Thanks dude.  Keep up your baby entitlement tax surf destroy all that I should have but I don't mentality going.

 

You think the Germans aren't "slaving" to make cars at deflated prices for The Southern Europeans, and in turn selling them to the USA at inflated prices?  Those PIIGS countries have more BMW's than you can shake a stick at.

 

You think the Euro is worth what is right now?  You are fooling yourself, Keep buying gold it will one day make a nice something for you.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:22 | 2445002 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Americans pay less for BMWs than Southern Europeans do.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:53 | 2445046 prole
prole's picture

To quote from the movie "Six Days Seven Nights" ...... Are you sure?

Euros have access to a whole line of Beamer engines not available to the US market, furthermore they have access to whole lines of smaller VW cars not available to the US market, all of which are Cheaper  than the overpowered wasteful engined cars shipped to the US.

6 cylinder for a 3-series which is a econo size car? Way overpowered. Europe a 4 cylinder has always been avail in the 3 series, also diesel models.

Golf engine in the US is 2.0 or 2.5? liters? way oversized and gas guzzling for such a small car. Golf is or was available in EC with a 1.4 engine, much more practical and economic re: cost and mileage.

All that being said you still may be right with taxes and fees but we pay taxes too.

How much do EC residents pay for a 3-series with a 4 cylinder engine manual transmission and does it take regular gas or high octane?

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:29 | 2445580 DosZap
DosZap's picture

FeralSerf

Americans pay less for BMWs than Southern Europeans do.

And Americans that BUY them pay double what they are worth.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 01:25 | 2444497 knowshitsurelock
knowshitsurelock's picture

Boy, zerohedgers sure do love a good bullish precious metals story, don't they?  All the while postulating about their collapse scenario's and how they are hedged and comfortable against the odds, yet ALL asset classes get hammered into the dirt and there are no safe havens.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 02:06 | 2444535 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Yeah, ironically it's said dirt that IS the last safe haven. '=_

ori

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 04:49 | 2444713 css1971
css1971's picture

No. You don't "get it".

You want to buy a car? Deflation, everything "hammered into the dirt"? Nope. The price of the car will drop approximately with the price of commodities like gold as the credit money contracts. You'll pay about the same. No matter what money does you'll pay about the same for the things you need to buy. i.e. the price level remains comparatively constant, stable. When you buy gold you are locking in stability at that point.

What you're doing with gold and silver etc is stepping outside the hall of mirrors. Sanity vs insanity.

Here's the truth, it's is the expansion and contraction in fiat monetary media which is warping your frame of reference. You think the value of everything changes dramatically on a daily basis? No. The world stays the same, take a look around, changes take decades. Only the money changes.

When you change your money, your frame of reference; your measuring stick, changes.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:30 | 2444758 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Stepping outside the hall of mirrors will NOT be allowed either by the statist pump to infinity machine, central bank controlled; or by the asset bubble to infinity machine of WS that interfaces with them and ran the WHOLE capitalist show, until 2008 debacle shot their legs off! Since those cataclysmic times the Private Oligarchy have shouted "help!" to the statist Oligarchs who are elected and who have piled on the socialised debt machine to save their private sector paymasters.

But now, as things have gone totally viral in ongoing private oligarchy "catch as catch can" spiral, the Statists are now muttering amongst themselves : "we have to pull the plug on these private sector Oligarchs. We don't HAVE to burn with them. And, we do want to get elected, and, now the first world sheeple are getting dangerous minded." Hollande is now pushing this line in Uber circles and Potus nods and says, "Yes, I do want to get elected. Maybe I have to sacrifice a few private Oligarchs to appease the sheeple. Not finish like Sarko." 

So we may be seeing the lines of demarcation in the first world statist construct change. Dangerous world, as the private Oligarchs have a lot to lose like their statist crony friends. These latter, only have one real strategy to save their own skins, apart from letting the Jamie Dimons free fall and not bail them out OVERTLY; they only know how to print, print, print and hope they can deleverage their colossal debt through inflation and ongoing can-kicking exercise to next generation dystopium.

Not a hope in hell to solve this thing reasonably as its malignant and growing bigger every day, unless you close down markets, by manipulating them via state controls. Which means you declare war on first world private sector! We are not there, but if the market melts under its own momentum, oligarchy gone mad fake balance sheet pumping, we may be there in 2013. In the meantime Potus has to save his own skin and get elected as top statist of the world.

The first  world Oligarchy divide, statist vs private, may be hotting up dangerously. And, don't forget the Chindia brigade has its OWN agenda, like Putin says. He didn't come to G8!

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:30 | 2445014 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture

css1971, i agree with you on all but change, change occurs like a garden boar-scarer, where it seems nothing is happening until suddenly everything comes crashing down.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 01:55 | 2444529 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Bluecollaredone

I do the same thing with friends, I give them multiple lectures ref Silver then I f*ck with their heads by giving them a maple leaf or an eagle, it has not failed yet.

It seems we are doing the heavy lifting ref PM's over here is Asia, it would be nice if the North Americans stepped up their pace a bit.

We buy PM's over here and you guys buy facebook, hmm..... Hope you all weren't selling PM's to buy facebook.  That would be truly tragic.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 02:03 | 2444531 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

I do not understand the PM thing.  What do you do with it besides trade it in for fiat?  To me this is worse than a bank scam.

 

And please tell me this. 

Can you be long the dollar and gold at the same time?

Or are you just trying to scam people by speculation on PM's and eventually trade them in for legal tender?

 

Perhaps you can try to fuck my mind with one of your lectures and give me a maple leaf or something?

 

This is Tyler Durden:

Every word you read of this useless fine print is another second off your life.  Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all who claim it? Do you read everything you're supposed to read? Do you think everything you're supposed to think? Buy what you're told you should want?

 

PM people are just sheeple to me.

 

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 04:25 | 2444689 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

I do not understand the PM thing.  What do you do with it besides trade it in for fiat?

Exactly, and the longer we wait to trade it for fiat the more fiat we get, because PMs hold their value compared to fiat losing value.

That's so simple a child can understand it.

What's your problem?

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 06:46 | 2444763 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

"PM people are just sheeple to me."

 

It's the opposite, they are contrarians. When almost everyone expects economic recovery, they expect recession or collapse. Not because someone told them but because they started to think for themselves.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:14 | 2444982 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Say, mate, are you familiar wth Exeter's pyramid?

 

 

Hint: it stands on it's top...

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:52 | 2445045 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Tom, see my prior post (above).

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 02:21 | 2444550 constantine
constantine's picture

Swedish,

Good God.  We just think gold is going higher; or more accurately, paper money is going lower.  Get a grip.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 02:23 | 2444551 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Tom,

The first step is google the uses for silver. Read everything and then get back to me.

Silver aint for free mate ya gotta earn it.

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 02:34 | 2444556 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

"Gold? I'd rather have cash money USD."

Only someone working for the state could utter such nonsense. Maybe one of helicopter Ben's interns? I thought Zombies only existed in the movies.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 04:32 | 2444694 css1971
css1971's picture

Hint. The reason there are so many zombie movies is because that is how people are acting. Horror movies represent the fears of the times. Today that is the mindless masses. Oh and bloodsucking vampires. Wonder who that might be.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 03:10 | 2444590 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Looks like the rate of market decline, the need for QE and the fact that the VIX spiked preceeded each of the last 3 QEs is predicting a really nice spike in VIX this upcoming week. In each of the last 3 times vix went to the moon in a week (5 to 7 trading days.) It then fell rapidly back. Time to ride the waves.. 

 

Video

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 02:55 | 2444615 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture
Recent American Silver Eagle Bullion Coin Sales Month & Year Sales Total April 2012 1,520,000 March 2012 2,542,000 February 2012 1,490,000 January 2012 6,107,000 December 2011 2,009,000 November 2011 1,384,000 October 2011 3,064,000 September 2011 4,460,500 August 2011 3,679,500 July 2011 2,968,000 June 2011 3,402,000 May 2011 3,653,500 April 2011 2,819,000
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 03:03 | 2444632 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

January must have been a manipulated number. Which means we have no idea what other numbers are manipulated. It would be nice to know how this bit of physical silver is actually doing.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 03:13 | 2444640 Olympia
Olympia's picture

The end of the world is near... The ten plagues of Pharaoh “have been brought upon” the USA.

From the Wall Street Crash of 1929 to the Global Financial Crisis of 2007

http://eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2010/02/ten-plagues-of-pharaoh.html

.

It is the absolute tragedy for the USA. The former illegal immigrants had become the masters of their land; the ultimate masters. The people who wanted to collaborate with the Jews to become “Pharaohs” had the same bad luck. The greedy “locust” of the Asiatic desert swapped the USA and left absolutely nothing standing. The formerly rich people of the New World have been drained of their money to such a degree that they have passed the point of poverty and are headed towards starvation. The Americans now experience desperation and trust in God. Poor and hungry people gather around the fire to warm and cast their eyes up to heaven as their last hope. These are the former planet leaders...

Authored by Panagiotis Traianou

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 03:30 | 2444660 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

Some really low level commentary here tonight. Maybe ZH needs an IQ filter...you know, a math question to get in...

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:36 | 2444840 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

Here you go slick, see if you can figure this one out:

Little Zachary, a Jewish kid, was doing very badly in math. His parents had tried everything: tutors, mentors, flash cards, special learning centers. In short, everything they could think of to help his math.

Finally, in a last ditch effort, they took Zachary down and enrolled him in the local Catholic school.

After the first day, little Zachary came home with a very serious look on his face. He didn't even kiss his mother hello. Instead, he went straight to his room and started studying. Books and papers were spread out all over the room and little Zachary was hard at work. His mother was amazed.

She called him down to dinner. To her shock, the minute he was done, he marched back to his room without a word, and in no time, he was back hitting the books as hard as before. This went on for some time, day after day, while the mother tried to understand what made all the difference.

Finally, little Zachary brought home his report card. He quietly laid it on the table, went up to his room and hit the books. With great trepidation, his Mom looked at it and to her great surprise, little Zachary got an "A" in math.

She could no longer hold her curiosity. She went to his room and said, "Son, what was it? Was it the nuns?" Little Zachary looked at her and shook his head, no.

"Well, then," she replied, "was it the books, the discipline, the structure, the uniforms? WHAT WAS IT?"

Little Zachary looked at her and said, "Well, on the first day of school when I saw that guy nailed to the plus sign, I knew they weren't fooling around!"

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 03:36 | 2444666 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Started buying my silver at USD14 and its worked out fine so far. I keep buying it whenever I have spare cash or have sold a business and have cash that needs to be somewhere that is doing to be worth more in the future.

Dollars are OK while you are accumulating enough to buy that next ounce of Silver.

10,000 industrial uses and having been money throughout history works for me.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:58 | 2445056 prole
prole's picture

AAh..... Don't forget to balance your portfolio with gold, brother!

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 04:47 | 2444708 KrugerrandFan
KrugerrandFan's picture

Just been listening to the "Broadcasting House" programe on BBC radio 4.  A reporter had spent the day outside the bank of greace.  He said a lot of people he spoke to had been buying gold and interviewed a guy who was about the only seller he had found who had been out of work for a year. It was presented as a given that this was the way people are protecting their welth.  First time I've heard this without the interviewer making some negative comment about the wisdom of trying to protect your welth in gold. 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 04:52 | 2444716 cardis
cardis's picture

Honk, Honk ?

k3661698 www.fotosearch.com

 

Honk ???

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 04:55 | 2444717 cardis
cardis's picture

Honk, Honk ?

k3661698 www.fotosearch.com 

Honk ???

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 05:05 | 2444723 Nachdenken
Nachdenken's picture

One approximation of gold price is USD in circulation to gold reserves.  As of a 2010 rough ratio, an ounce of known US gold reserve should be 5000 USD.

The reference is then gold against real goods and time.  The USD or any other fiat currency as a medium of convenience or the basis of tradable instruments is replaced.  This gets rid of banks as well. One needs a certification or authentications standard so we know what we are giving or receiving.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 05:37 | 2444733 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

"Do you know the total tax that you pay as an employer, more than doubles the salary that you pay an individual?"

 

Same thing in Sweden.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 05:57 | 2444740 tooktheredpill
tooktheredpill's picture

Gold gold gold! Jesus. Sound just like the uber bull clowns on cnbc. Gold didn't go that great during the credit crunch.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 05:57 | 2444741 tooktheredpill
tooktheredpill's picture

Gold gold gold! Jesus. Sound just like the uber bull clowns on cnbc. Gold didn't go that great during the credit crunch.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 06:02 | 2444743 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

I buy and hold my Gold and especially my Silver. I don't have a crystal ball.  Though I do know that as the US and Europe continue to debase their currencies my PM's will continue to do well.

The f*ckers that are manipulating it downward to prop up their rubbish fiat and the trolls that assist them are the enemies of normal people that are just trying to get by and maybe even get ahead.

May the trolls all get hit by a bus.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 07:07 | 2444773 Corduroy
Corduroy's picture

Anybody who tells you that Greece leaving the Euro and returning to the Drachma will usher in "complete destruction" is talking a mountain pile of steaming bullshit. As soon as you read such verbosity, you can instantly assume that the person commenting is married to the system regardless of the way they try and spin it to look otherwise.

Commentators such as Mcleod can only price Gold and other PM's within terms of reference of the existing status quo, either becuase they are not smart enough to do otherwise, or are dependent on investors who don't understand what day of the week it is.

In addition they cheer lead the status quo, more worried about who is on the other side of a derivatives trade than getting the system fixed in the first place. All smoke and mirrors to make it sound like they are outside the system looking in with clarity and good advice.. while at the same time prooving that they live in the system, cannot see past the end of their nose, and probably stand to loose their shirt if the derivitves trade blows up, or if they cannot get their money back from their swiss bank account.

Snake Oil salesmen !

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 07:55 | 2444810 tim73
tim73's picture

"Anybody who tells you that Greece leaving the Euro and returning to the Drachma will usher in "complete destruction" is talking a mountain pile of steaming bullshit"

You are full of bullshit. 78 percent of Greeks want to stay in euro. If they do not trust their currency, who would then?! Vulture funds from US?! HA HA.

It would be a complete destruction, Greeks would run away as fast as they could from new garbage Drachma.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:10 | 2444820 Corduroy
Corduroy's picture

"You are full of bullshit. 78 percent of Greeks want to stay in euro. If they do not trust their currency, who would then?! Vulture funds from US?! HA HA."

That poll is old news taken on May 6th - we are ten days on from there and while the same poll you quote from had Syriza at 20% they are now polling 25%. Don't take polls at face value anyway...

"It would be a complete destruction, Greeks would run away as fast as they could from new garbage Drachma."

What would be complete destruction ? Who would be getting destroyed ? It doesn't matter if Greeks do not want to use the Drachma, the important part is that the government starts using it for their accounts, and erradicates their existing debt pile.

Besides, just because Greece leaves the Euro does not mean that ordinary people cannot buy Euro's. They might covert to drachma and let everyone continue to trade in Euro's... who could stop them ?

 

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:43 | 2444846 Corduroy
Corduroy's picture

And the latest poll %'s regarding the Euro that I am aware of (18th May) are as follows

54% say “stay in Euro with sacrifices up to a certain extend, otherwise back to drachma”

34% say “Euro at any cost”

7% say “return to Drachma now”

5% say “Don’t know/Don’t answer”

This is where MSM bandy about their 75%-85% Greece wants to stay in the Euro (conviniently ignorring the 'conditions' aspect)

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:11 | 2444881 TheCanimal
TheCanimal's picture

This just in:  Over half the people in Greece now make less than the median income.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:23 | 2444900 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Maybe Greeks just want to try to preserve what they have left.

 

Their disincentive to exiting is that it will lead to an immediate Drachmageddon of perhaps a 40-50% devaluation to the EURO. But the alternative is having 50% of their wealth taken away painfully and slowly through taxes and Euro devaluation, along with the loss of their sovereignty. They can at least take their money out right now in EUROs  before the window closes and convert them back to Drachmas later.

Turk and Celente: "I can't believe they (Greece and Spain) haven't already taken all their money out of the banks... they're just waking up, that's why we're seeing the bank runs this week. What took them so long?"

Maybe the optimistic banker talk is just to prevent bank runs. Greece may wake up one morning, like Belarus, to find that the plug has been pulled. It only works if they can be caught in their pijamas.

 

 

 

 

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 07:26 | 2444786 sudzee
sudzee's picture

The financial system is being starved by goldbugs. Many have been switching fiat for pm's. In a world of seemingly endless leverage a few billion here and there yanked out of the hands of crooks make an enormous difference. Goverments around the developed world sold all their real money to average joe who has rejected the financial status quo. The financial elete are now left with just derivatives of real money. Just electronic entries of no value at all. Goldbugs have changed the rules of the CONfidence game.

Remember reports of a few years back were greek banks were selling up to 25,000 gold soverigns a month. Thats just the banks. Average joe in Greece has also been buying PM's from other sources. Bad money gone to good. Fiat to real money has starved the Greek financial system of assets to continue the ponzi. First out gets paid, everyone else gets what little is left.

Like a dollar bill between 2 mirrors. If you pull the dollar out all of the images(derivative) disappear. Derivatives are the currecy of the fiancial elete. Average joe has been pulling the dollar bills.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 07:59 | 2444815 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

"The result is that gold and silver have become very, very seriously mispriced."

 

So this guy is smarter than the markets?  Wow.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:30 | 2444913 gwar5
gwar5's picture

There are no markets anymore. It's now de facto State Capitalism, everything is manipulated. 

 

Macleod (of the clan Macleod) is exactly right on the PMs. Backwardation of the PMs are more signs of revolt against the phony paper mis-pricing mechanism. 

 

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:27 | 2444830 Lokking4AnEdge
Lokking4AnEdge's picture

Barrons just had a quite bullish article on gold stocks in general and on "NEM" in particular...

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:36 | 2444839 Floodmaster
Floodmaster's picture

Nations of pensioners supported by a soon to be underwater-generation.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:58 | 2445734 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Floodmaster

Nations of pensioners supported by a soon to be underwater-generation.( that includes everyone globally that is still fortunate enough to have gainful employment).

Most pensioners PAID for them..............

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:45 | 2444850 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Alisdair Macleod (of the clan Macleod!), October 2011:

 

"Firstly, it is a basic human right to choose to save without our savings being debased by the tax of monetary inflation."

"Secondly, is a a basic right for us to own our own money rather than have it owned by the banks... Banks should be the custodians of our money, and it should not show up on their balance sheets as their property."


 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:46 | 2444851 fractal trader
fractal trader's picture

I believe gold is going to make a fresh new low below 1500 in the weeks to come, then reverse and try but fail to reach its absolute high above 1900 and then fall to anywhere between 970 and 1250.
Apart from my technical analysis, we should not forget that in order for gold to appreciate significantly, there must first be a promise of another long inflationary cycle. Currently, I can only see fundamentals for an unstoppable deflation driven by evergrowing illiquidity (resulting from global deleveraging and usd denominated "asset" liquidation). IMHO, the worst is yet to come with or without Fed interventions which have already proven to lose their grip along with ever more present critics of its monetary policy and oil prices as a politically important reminder whenever easing goes too far.
Though, I do agree that hedging an SP500 short with a gold long may be a good long term investment idea.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:24 | 2444904 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Apart from my technical analysis, we should not forget that in order for gold to appreciate significantly, there must first be a promise of another long inflationary cycle.

**************

It's no wonder people like you miss these bull markets-

Your gold analysis is completely assbackwards and i wouldn't be trusting your TA when you can't even decipher a simple historical chart-

We had inflation from 1980 2001 and gold fell all the way-so isn't it obvious that inflation is not the ticket for gold?

http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2012/02/Gold-LT1.png

So- it must be something else that pulled gold out of a 20 year bear market--in 2001-2008 we had a different type of inflation-call it abnormal inflation-i call it hyper-inflation of the credit money supply which equates to default risk and the only way to see it is to look at the credit supply which increased a whopping 25 trillion dollars in 10 years-

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/TCMDO

Printing money was basically non existent-2001-2008 so it didn't at that time reflect money printing which incidentally was actually declining-

http://bit.ly/L8BRwM

Try to explain it away with your "inflation is what gold needs to continue higher"

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:12 | 2444981 fractal trader
fractal trader's picture

I think you are underestimating what is about to come in the mid-long term. The overleveraging on the global scale is without precedent.
As for the first part of my TA (gold below 1500) we won't need to wait long. So, have patience.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:20 | 2444995 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

I think you are underestimating what is about to come in the mid-long term. The overleveraging on the global scale is without precedent.

As for the first part of my TA (gold below 1500) we won't need to wait long. So, have patience.

*************

Do you suppose the "overleveraging" could possibly have something to do with the rise in the price of gold?

You failed to prove your points and continued with more useless theorizing-

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:27 | 2445101 fractal trader
fractal trader's picture

You see, I don't need to prove my point. I trade what I believe and make living of it. If I prove wrong on this one, I'll simply take the loss (less profit actually) and reverse my position.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:54 | 2445498 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

sure..then get whipsawed...

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 09:15 | 2660084 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

Your Momma gave you two first names because she knew you're two ignorant for a proper name, JimJim. You must be a sum' bitch in real life! What is useless is your constant comments diminutizing any anit-gold theory, some of which are clearly beyond your thinking skills. You should STFU and listen.   

So, Mr. Monday Morning Quarterback, how do you recon this 'overleveraging' wil be dealt with? Can you name anything that IS NOT overleveraged besides a metal that is used 93% for jewely?

Have you had a gun(s) pointed at you or staring down your fourth day without food? How about bartering all day for water to save some children (TG they weren't mine)? What if your choice was between paying all of your gold for your child's education, or keep your child illiterate? Unless you have been in any of these situations, it is you, not the ZH readers you constatntly belittle, that doesn't understand what 'money' is. So, I will try to make this simple for you.

Money is the exchange of what you are willing to give up in order to get something back, at a particular moment in time, Mr. Deep Thinker. I know, I know, you are thinking you can't send a ham sandwich to China in exchange for goods. right? Since you are always on attack mode, I can't ascertain if you are a neoconservative in sheeps clothing, or a paleoconservative posing as a deaf angel. All drivel... Either way, you are without a solution or for that manner, any cognative thought on how all this 'overleverage' will end. All gold owners become land barrons, merchant kings, political icons, and live happily everafter? I will continue to read your angry, disjointed posts, but only for a short while. In that time frame, please tell our fellow ZH posters how YOU think 'overleveraging' will end. We are waitng... 

 

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:13 | 2445084 prole
prole's picture

Fractal gold back below 1000 wouldn't surprise me at all and would be consistent with the recent past in gold prices. 35 to 800 to 250 to 1900 to ??  Gold below 1000 would not change anything for me philosophically (although might br me)

Gold going down 35% from here? Acceptable and normal IMHO. I do not believe that gold will go to zero or be reduced by 97% Like Fiat Benbux have done in 100 years, nor do I believe gold will go POOF!! and disappear into the ether which is what fiat currencies usually do, and the USD is "overdue."

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:15 | 2444985 FranSix
FranSix's picture

"I believe gold is going to make a fresh new low below 1500 in the weeks to come, then reverse and try but fail to reach its absolute high above 1900 and then fall to anywhere between 970 and 1250."

With the latest price move, fractal analysis has been proven incorrect and therefore disqualified as a method of forecasting gold prices.  $1523 as a low is likely to hold.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$GOLD&p=M&b=5&g=0&id=p77104277393&a=222758747&listNum=2

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:21 | 2445879 fractal trader
fractal trader's picture

Bill Williams' concept of fractals has nothing to do with the term "fractal" in my nick name. I use a completely, contextually different, fractal based analysis. But that's off topic.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 00:12 | 2446444 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

No paper currency has lasted more than 200 years approx without asset backing.

Gold is an asset which has lasted since time immemorial.

Would you not trade millions of Zimbabwean dollars or Trillions of Reisch Marks today for Gold?  Thgise currencies do not exist.

The US dollar in its present from and most o0ther currencies will cease to exist.

Anyway keep your paper currency while we keep our gold]

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:53 | 2444864 buzlightening
buzlightening's picture

All governments print their currencies into worthlessness.  USDinker dollar no different.  goon platooning dead head feds have destroyed it and will leave all comers bag holders of the vaporizing debt attached. You don't have the common sense to step out of the chit house, you'll get buried in all the sewage the infernal fiends will shovel over your economic ignorance. That's the way it was May 20th, 2012.  Can't be financially saved in ignorance. 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:59 | 2444868 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

Those who believe their Governments need to loose their wealth.

The governments are of the crooks by the crooks for the crooks.

Once elected these officials look out only for themselves and b..ls to the people.

Every day they have been robbing us of our wealth by inflation . Every currency has lost value. They call it growth when it is really inflation.

When one can print currency notes at will it's just a matter of time before the currency is destroyed.

The so called globalisation was nothing but the forced use of useless American dollars around the world.  Credit extended by fools permitting the US to subjugate them more.

Good luck to those who keep their money in banks ( euphemism for institutional thieves). Every note is a promise to pay by each Government. Not to worry- they will pay you with some other paper money.

The only real assets are hard assets, like precious metals. and food

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:41 | 2444960 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Reading the article this morning calls to mind the anxiety I had yesterday. I rode my bike twelve miles to a ballpark in a nearyby bedroom community to watch my grandson play ball. The pedal crank on my bicycle started to go out by the time I got there and I had anxiety that after the game I might not be able to ride it all the way home. 

My bike crank is a metaphor for the European Economy. It is limping along but it is going to give out. I did make it home alright pedalling cautiously, but the crank will have to be replaced. In the same sense the current European policy of "borrowing more money to make payments on more debt" is getting unstable and will have to be replaced. They have just been pedalling easy to go as far as they can before it gives out completely.

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:10 | 2444978 FranSix
FranSix's picture

A standard weight of gold will become the benchmark for pricing.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:01 | 2445065 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

Emphasis on the systematic breakdown of soveign states!

Systematic because this is the road to the acceptance of a new currency and the eventual demise of the Euro. They can't get rid of the Euro first off the bat (which SHOULD actually be the course to take), because if they did Sovereign States would just start printing their respective currencies and pay off their Euro debts easily (pennies-on-the-dollar, so to speak), and they would be out from under the Globalist thumbs. Therefore, the Globalists need to economically destroy each sovereign state, like they are doing...Greece, then Spain, Italy, France, etc.... Then, bring in a new currency when these old nation-states no longer have the ability to get out from under their thumb.

Meanwhile, Germany will likely take up more with the Eastern block, or Russians, also part of the Globalists plan to maintain some control over Russia.

UK: What can anyone say about the U.K.? The only thing they can say for themselves is they are great Controllers. Other than that, has anything really good come from the U.K.???  This a.m., on a radio show, they were talking how the English pride themselves on being the most UN-religious nation in the world. They had 'ol Dawkins on spouting off his viewpoints on Christianity, which he followed up with "evidence" from the old testement scriptures (maybe he doesn't understand that is the realm of Judaism?).

UK prides itself on teaching its young women to "fix" themselves so they are ready and primed for mounds of sexual partners. UK prides itself on surveillance systems and influencing the US to same.

Ingenuity from the UK? Hardly. Most technological advances, scientific advances, are coming from the US, Germany, Israel, Some of the Middle East nations, and Asia.

Other UK accomplishments: Idiot Cameron, Mi-5 & 6, Prep boys, Prep girls, Elongated noses, and a complacent and easily duped and propagandized citizenry. (Includes: Canada, NZ, Australia, Ireland, Scotland, England...and anywhere else they bow to the Dowdy Queen Elizabeth).

Oh ya, forgot the Rothschild clan, LBMA, and City of London.

 

 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:37 | 2445118 prole
prole's picture

Well if you want to bash Albion, you should at least give a hat tip to them for Nigel Rathbone, the most notorious vainglorious deplorious villain in all of filmery. 2nd you must note that chick who sang about England who has the clearest purest voice ever to sing in English. 3rd if you were being kind you would mention that little cutie-pie with the accent what's her face Cheryl Tiegs.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:46 | 2445613 DosZap
DosZap's picture

headless blogger,

 They had 'ol Dawkins on spouting off his viewpoints on Christianity, which he followed up with "evidence" from the old testement scriptures (maybe he doesn't understand that is the realm of Judaism?).

 

Seems 'ol Dawkins doesn't get either.............as without the OLD there is no NEW,as it was simply a primer for that which  was to come.The OLD testament is the map for the NEW.

They are one in the same.................except for specific Covenants.

Scripture interprets Scripture..................'ol Dawkins is fudging (thru pure ignorance I am sure).But when your talking to pagans, how can one know truth, they cannot, nor do they care.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 06:47 | 2446741 _underscore
_underscore's picture

HB - I think you desparately want to be British don't you?  A precis of your 'critique': UK is a fairly relaxed, primarily secular state, with lots of nubile women & an ability to make money without doing much.

Reminds me of thge late, great George Best (N.I footballer of 60-70s) when intereviewed in bed with (the then current) Miss World on one arm & a glass of champagne in hand, by a football journalist, "..tell me George, where did it all go wrong?.. "

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 03:24 | 2450075 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

I'm a total Bigot when it comes to people from the UK. Can't stand 'em. They strike me as some of the most degraded people on the planet and the Royal family grosses me out....the most over-rated people on the planet.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 03:20 | 2450071 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

The concept of Christ was not born from the Old Testament, but is much older. Technically you can have the new without the old. In fact, they only included the old testement to appeal to the Jewish communities.

I have no interest in arguing religion or spiritual matters with people. Most have not had actual experiences, so you can't talk to them about something they don't know, especially when they think they know something and they don't.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:12 | 2445080 impermanence
impermanence's picture

Even gold is merely an abstraction of labor-value.  Look at the fundementals of the human labor market and this will tell you which way the abtractions are going [all things being equal]. 

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:47 | 2445344 deflator
deflator's picture

 Generally speaking, I do not think labor or any type of energy is over valued at this point in history. Quite the contrary, in fact, it is capital that is significantly over valued.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:39 | 2445122 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

but thats just it - I want this false economy too implode. It is run by liars and crooks. To pretend that you can just continually grow and consume is ultimately that which destroys in the end.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:30 | 2445197 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

If you can put a match to it [fiat], how much can it really be worth?

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 22:27 | 2446259 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

A hundred dollar bill is worth at least as much as a piece of toilet paper, but no more than that

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:09 | 2445278 Cycle
Cycle's picture

I don't think gold has become seriously mispriced. The last sovereign debt crisis of 1931 saw the dollar go to new heights before finally falling and gold rising over the next two years. I think we're in the same boat today. Gold seems to follow a regular pattern of rises and falls, and there is quite a bit of room to fall before it rises again  probably over the next couple of years. http://econocasts.blogspot.com/

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 22:36 | 2446277 moonstears
moonstears's picture

I gave an up arrow, there. When I first started to understand what's going on in a general way, I presumed this was a fairly quick process, fear and loathing and all. It amazes me, and bear with me here, in some ways Ben's doing a much better job of bailing water than I ever believed possible, and when he was (not so secretly) spreading post TARP monies to europe I began see this was ultimately to be dollar positive/thus gold negative, for a time. I realized gold could float under $2K for a while, (it was just getting to 900's at that time, then the dip to the 700's USD) so I agree in many ways. That is not to say the system as we all know it will not get ugly, very ugly. I really expected higher inflation by late 2011 to Q1 '12. To be clear though, gold can actually do well in inflation and deflations. Silver's more risky but similar, so I'm just long FB ;) JMOs.

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 09:24 | 2660088 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

Thank you for clear and cognative thought. It seems sorely lacking in these here parts...

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:22 | 2445290 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

OK, when we hit the great reset, gold and silver are in and fiat is out. Now we trade, I have no gold or silver and you need what I do have, (who knows what that is). In time we will have equal amounts of gold and silver. You just got a free ride for a certain time period. I'm not worried.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:41 | 2445321 deflator
deflator's picture

 I used to think that the PIIGS would leave the EURO in some successive fashion but since a little over a year ago have concluded that the path of least resistance would be for Germany to leave the EURO and go back to Deutchmarks. The question is how big is the check they will have to write to do so?

 Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too so that ends up being what is postured as a "solution" for everything.

 Yes, all roads lead to Gold and other physical assets because the masters of the universe, central planners, can't stand much in the way of deflation in paper assets. What with the requirement of ever expanding government and all.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:33 | 2445453 Thoresen
Thoresen's picture

Jeff Neilson from Thursday's post on bullionbullscanada.com

"Yet what do we consistently hear from the media propaganda-machine? Western bonds (and most specifically U.S. Treasuries), which give Chumps two different – but equally certain – ways of losing all their money are referred to as “a safe haven”. Meanwhile gold, which has provided thousands of years of perfect wealth-preservation, and more than a decade of uninterrupted gains is referred to as “a risk asset”. It’s literally impossible to get any more dishonest than that.

Protecting one’s self from risk is always one of the most important, if not the most important priority when it comes to investing. In times of crisis (like today), when “playing defense” is the only sane approach to financial management, risk management is an even higher priority. This begs the question: how can a person protect one’s self from “risk” if they have no idea what risk really is?

For any investor who heeds the Siren’s Song of the dishonest bond-shills in the mainstream media, it is a 100% certainty that they have absolutely no comprehension of this critical concept. Living in an era of maximum risk in the marketplace, this is nothing less than a fatal deficiency.

Learn about risk. Manage your risk (properly). Or perish. It’s really that simple."

Alasdair Macleod+ Jeff Neilsen are top of my reading list (after ZH!)


Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:42 | 2445474 WilliamShatner
WilliamShatner's picture

I love listening to Alasdair Macleod, the interiews he conducts for the Goldmoney Foundation are must listen material not for just us goldbugs but for anyone trying to get a grasp of the money system.  He's the epitome of an intelligent, thoughtful English gentleman, a rare breed these days.

 

I've tried to convince my friends & family to buy gold for over 3 years now, as far as I can tell none of them have done so.  Their excuse is always the same "No way, I don't play commodities".  I tell them gold isn't a commodity, they as me what it is then and I say "It's money".

That's when the conversation gets interesting and they get the world they know turned inside out.

I never tire of it.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:41 | 2445704 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Gold and silver are a hedge against inflation, which there currently is none of in the USA, other major countires have a real bad inflation problem but not the USA.  That is all it is.  It is not a be all end all. It will not save the world nor will it save India or China, Russia, Venezuela Brazil or yourself from any of the problems we are facing (other than continuing the lazy cheap money cycle).  It has went up in price too high.  It should not represent more than 5 percent of anybodies portfolio.  Ever hear the term "diversified"?

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:20 | 2445876 deflator
deflator's picture

tom green swedish

I wouldn't strictly think of gold as a hedge against inflation. Think of gold as an anti paper asset. As long as paper assets are considered as the only real mainstream assets with gold,oil and farm land considered as "commodities" then the only thing in the way of...

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:52 | 2445723 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Tom Green Swedish

Bro, your FOS,

Gold and silver are a hedge against inflation, which there currently is none of in the USA

Since you do not evidently live here, you are not paying it, we are.

Cost-push inflation is eating Americans fiat,at every level in life sustaining goods.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:03 | 2445749 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Tom Green Swedish

 It should not represent more than 5 percent of anybodies portfolio.  Ever hear the term "diversified"?

Dude, it was a recommendation  5-10% when things were ok, 20-50yrs ago.

You sticking to 5%, with just the USA @ 160 Trillion in debt owed?.

16 Trillion printed in less than 4yrs, on the I was born in  Kenyans watch?.

You need to re-think the world condition............as to Diversified, into WHAT?.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 22:30 | 2446252 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Any new currency that is backed even 1% by any precious metal would immediately and effectively destroy the value of all other pure paper currencies world wide.

Greece would become wealthy IF they were allowed to back the Drachma

Don't expect the U.S.Military to allow that.

See what they did to Libya...

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 03:47 | 2446618 Olympia
Olympia's picture

Loan sharks knew that if they took the dollars printing machines under their control they could suffocate the world ...they could initially suffocate USA and after taking the USA from the Americans, they could move and suffocate the whole world and take the countries from their people.

FED printed cheap money and loansharking multiplied this money in an unnatural way within the American economy boarders and they discarded them abroad so that they did not threaten USA. USA became the first state in the world with artificial “breathing”...

It cannot be possible but just in the USA for only the last year, more than one million houses were seized. It cannot be impossible but the New World has returned to tents and shelters ..has returned to the ages of Columbus. It cannot be possible that we allow to a few loan sharks looting the toils and the assets of people...

http://eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2012/01/global-debt-crisis.html

------------------------

Global Debt Crisis

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!