America's Demographic Cliff: The Real Issue In The Coming, And All Future Presidential Elections

Tyler Durden's picture

In four months the debate over America's Fiscal cliff will come to a crescendo, and if Goldman is correct (and in this case it likely is), it will probably be resolved in some sort of compromise, but not before the market swoons in a replica of the August 2011 pre- and post-debt ceiling fiasco: after all politicians only act when they (and their more influential, read richer, voters and lobbyists) see one or two 0's in their 401(k)s get chopped off. But while the Fiscal cliff is unlikely to be a key point of contention far past December, another cliff is only starting to be appreciated, let alone priced in: America's Demographic cliff, which in a decade or two will put Japan's ongoing demographic crunch to shame, and with barely 2 US workers for every retired person in 2035, we can see why both presidential candidates are doing their darnedest to skirt around the key issue that is at stake not only now, be every day hence.

Sadly, the market which due to central-planner meddling, has long lost its discounting capabilities, and is now merely a reactive mechanism, will ignore this biggest threat to the US financial system until it is far too late. After all it is the unsustainability of America's $100+ trillion in underfunded welfare liabilities that is the biggest danger to preserving the American way of life, and will be the sticking point in the presidential election in 80 days. However, don't expect either candidate to have a resolution to the demographic catastrophe into which America is headed for one simple reason. There is none. 

The problem in a nutshell: the first wave of Baby Boomers, born between the years of 1946 and 1964, officially reached retirement age in 2011. There are a whole lot of Baby Boomers - just under 76 million, to be exact - that will depend on new money flowing into the system to help keep the entitlements coming. According to the latest Social Security and Medicare Board of Trustees 2012 Annual Reports Social Security now pays out more than it takes in, and is expected to do so for the next 75 years. 

And while the market, and its "discounting" may now be largely irrelevant, those who care to be educated about the facts behind America's Demographic Cliff, here is ConvergEx and "Talkin' 'bout your generation"

According to the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, about 40.2 million people – 13% of the entire US population – are 65 years or older and eligible to receive government entitlements such as Medicare and Social Security. At current levels, spending on these entitlements make up about 8.7% of GDP – about $1.3 trillion. While this may sound sustainable over the short term, in coming years the amount of entitlement outlays necessary to keep up with retiring Baby Boomers is going to send spending through the roof. By 2030, for example, a full 19.3% of the population will be claiming SSI and Medicare benefits, based on the Census Bureau’s population projections (the CB uses an adjustment factor for the age cohorts based on mortality rates, foreign-born immigration, and life expectancy). For simplicity’s sake, here’s a decade-by-decade look at where the aging population – and expenditures – will be in the years to come, courtesy of the Census Bureau and the Congressional Budget Office (CBO):

  • In 1900, 4.1% of the US population was 65+. By 1950, this number had almost doubled to 8.1%. As the chart following the text shows, the Baby Boomers (now ages 48-66) represent the most significant population wave in US history. According to the CBO, the population aged 65 and over will increase by 87% over the next 25 years as Baby Boomers enter retirement, compared to an increase of only 12% in those aged 20-64.
  • This year, 13% of the US population is 65+ and entitlement spending accounts for 8.7% of GDP. And that number only includes SSI and Medicare, not Medicaid and future Obamacare subsidies which add to these outlays.
  • In 10 years (2022): 16.1% of the population will be 65+, entitlement spending estimated at 9.6% ($1.5 trillion, based on 2011 US GDP)
  • 2037 (25 years on): 20 % of the US population will be 65+, entitlement spending estimated at 12.2% of GDP ($2.0 trillion)
  • Not surprisingly, there will be far more women than men in the 65+ population. Women currently live about five years longer than their male peers, on average. Accordingly, the Census Bureau estimates that in 2030, there will be about 8 million more women than men that are 65 and older by 2030: 27.8 million versus 35.7 million.

It’s a pretty tough picture, to say the least; as the population ages, we’re looking at more and more money dedicated to retirement benefits with a smaller workforce to fund the spending. We’re not the only ones, either: Japan is in worse shape than the US, with 23.1% of the population already over 65. In 2050, government statistics forecast that number to be 39.6%. Europe’s in the same boat: 17.4% of the population in EU countries was 65+ in 2010, and it’s expected to be about 30% by 2060. The developed world, essentially, is facing a demographic “Fiscal cliff” with no clear-cut strategies for how to fund the liabilities inherent in an entirely predictably aging population

Are there any social positives that might mitigate this plethora of indisputable financial concerns?  The math is the math, as quants are fond of saying, so I don’t expect that there are overwhelming offsets to the problem of an aging population.  But there are some notable “Positives” which don’t get the attention they deserve because they offer such a lightweight counterbalance to the challenges I outlined above.  Still, here are a few thoughts:

  1. Stronger voter turnout/greater engagement in the political process. The 65+ age group has beaten out every other age cohort in voter turnout in every Presidential and Congressional election since 1980. In the latest presidential election, 68.1% of those aged 65+ went to the polls, versus and average of 51.2% for the rest of the voting-age population. The reason for this differential is straightforward: it easier for retired persons to vote given fewer time restrictions, allowing the higher turnout rate. But given an average turnout of 58.2% overall in 2008 for Obama’s election, compared to an average of 70-80% in other developed countries (Japan, Germany, Canada, Spain), the growing 65+ population will certainly help the U.S. come closer to its developed country peers on this metric.

    The stronger turnout of these voters, and their sheer numbers, are also likely to have an important impact on US political races in the years to come. They’re going to be the biggest voting bloc in American history, if patterns hold: 68% of them is almost 52 million, larger than the entire Black/African American voter population, for example. And like other older generations, according to a study by the Pew Research Center done in late 2011, Boomers have become slightly more conservative as they’ve aged, and slightly more of them (45% vs. 51%) intend to vote for Governor Romney in the upcoming election. However, given that one of their main concerns is the maintenance of entitlement spending, it seems unlikely that Boomers will continue to support a party that recommends reducing the deficit by cutting entitlements. All candidates, then, and especially the GOP, will need to take a hard look at the wants and needs of the Boomers. The 2012 Presidential election – and many others afterwards - will quite literally depend on their votes. 

  2. Lower crime rates. The younger population is by far the more crime-prone age cohort, according to the Department of Justice and the FBI Uniform Crime report. The DOJ publishes an annual report on arrests by age, the first occurring in 1980 and the latest in 2009. Over these years, the number of total arrests has increased by 30.9% for the entire population; for the 65+ population, it’s gone up 0.3%. Moreover, the Baby Boomer generation (in 2009, ages 45-53) accounted for only about 7% of all crimes. What were their most “Popular” crimes? Drunkeness and DUI. Violent crimes are almost exclusively the MO of the 18-29 cohort, who account for almost half (44%) of all arrests. It’s not too far of a stretch, then, to think that as our population ages, we can expect less and less violent crime across the country – though you may want to be careful on the roads.
  3. Lower resource consumption. The older population tends to cut down on resource consumption after retirement, particularly in the case of gasoline. Once they no longer need to commute to work and move into smaller, more affordable houses, the amount of fuel needed for transportation and heating/cooling should drop, perhaps significantly.

    Take motor gasoline usage as a benchmark. Just under 60 million Baby Boomers consider themselves a part of the labor force, according to BLS data. 85% of all Americans drive to work, according to a late 2010 Gallup poll, with an average commute of 30 miles round-trip – about 45 minutes – and an average of 20mpg (courtesy of the Bureau of Transportation Statistics). Using these estimates, we can calculate that the average Baby Boomer commuter uses about 33 gallons of gas each month; assuming that 85% of them drive every day, that’s about 1.7 billion gallons of gas being used per month.  As they retire, there are actually fewer new entrants into the workforce to replace them, meaning fewer drivers and less fuel consumption.

  4. Growing domestic service economy. An older population becomes more and more dependent on services as they age, particularly in the realms of healthcare and transportation. More and more people will be needed to fill the void in these service areas as the Boomers retire. Luckily for the US workforce, these are jobs that can’t be outsourced: healthcare especially depends on on-site care and personal service.

    In fact, as the population has begun to age, the US has already seen some steady growth in service-related positions. The BLS’s Occupational Employment data logs the number of occupations across the US in major industry sectors as well as almost 800 detailed occupations. According to the survey, the US has seen a -3.3% drop in job growth overall. Healthcare and “Personal Care”, however, have grown 13% and 11% each since that year. Occupations such as physician’s assistants, pharmacy technicians, and home health aides are in high demand, and will most likely continue to be so as the population ages and begins to rely more heavily on these services.

  5. Declining unemployment and increased labor force participation for this segment of the workforce. One of the most unique aspects of today’s aging population is their continued presence in the workforce. According to the BLS, 23.4% of Americans age 65+ were in the labor force as of June 2012, making up a full 4.5% of the total civilian labor force. They also had a below-average unemployment rate of 6.9%. If this trend continues, we’re likely to see more productivity from the upper end of the age spectrum in years to come as Boomers delay retirement in favor of working.

    On the flip side, as more of the aging population retires and leaves the workforce, more job opportunities will open up for those who are currently unemployed. The youngest members of the workforce, ages 18-24, will be the biggest beneficiaries of this shift, as they typically seek the same kind of jobs that the older population currently occupies. When these positions are vacated by the older group, then, and refilled by the younger groups, we may see a decline in youth unemployment rates.

    The older workforce also opens an interesting opportunity for some employers. The younger half of the Baby Boomer generation is tech-savvy, experienced, and definitely needs the money. This set of skills won’t go unnoticed in the labor market.

Unfortunately, these societal “benefits” are only a thin silver lining on a very, very dark cloud. Social Security and Medicare spending are projected to grow exponentially as healthcare costs explode and the biggest population wave in the history of the US starts to enter retirement. The Congressional Budget Office expects spending to increase by 150% over the next 25 years, which is hardly sustainable with barely 2 workers for every retired person in 2035... there’s a storm a comin’

Sources here:

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New_Meat's picture

jQ: a greenie on ya.  And I wonder who the pussy junksta is, obviously no balls to actually make a comment.

- Ned

{and not only tax, but confiscate all, still the same outcome}

masterinchancery's picture

Repay with what? Oh, printed money that will destroy the value of everyone's savings.

Dr. Sandi's picture

Depends on whether what you save crinkles or jingles.

AlphaDawg's picture

Plato: "Nothing in the affairs of men is worth great anxiety"

Relax dude

boogerbently's picture

Plato must have been a Christian:

Matthew 6

 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life ?

i-dog's picture

"Not one single problem - in the whole of human history - has ever been solved by just worrying about it" --- i-dog

Take action ... or just sit down quietly and eat your peas.

You Didn't Build That's picture


"Blessed are the meek:
for they shall inherit the earth."


Matthew 5:5


BTW, it's one Blankfein forgot t read in Sunday school.

centerline's picture

Here's the beef.  You got fucked.  Give me a break. You lived square in the middle of the biggest bubble in history and the most peaceful time ever as a result... and did not know it.

Your money is gone.  Wake and up and start looking for the real answers as to how you got here.  Do't waste our time around here with the "I am owed something" crap.  Stand in line asshole.  lol.

Disenchanted's picture



"Do't waste our time around here with the "I am owed something" crap.  Stand in line asshole.  lol."


Ok fine. I'll feel the same way when I hear someone whining about money they think is owed to them by the likes of Peregrine and MF Global.



Disenchanted's picture



For the 4 red downvoters(now 6, with no replies)...I view both scenarios as theft.


centerline said this about my(and my employers) forced by law 'contributions' to FICA on my behalf:


Your money is gone.  Wake and up and start looking for the real answers as to how you got here.  Do't waste our time around here with the "I am owed something" crap.  Stand in line asshole.  lol.


I responded:


"Ok fine. I'll feel the same way when I hear someone whining about money they think is owed to them by the likes of Peregrine and MF Global."


Now then which theft is worse?


I and millions of other working people and our employers on our behalf are forced by the law of the land to pay into what I fully agree is a ponzi scam(for almost 40 years in my case).  When I'm still 10 years from the lowest age(62) to retire and be eligible for SS 'benefits' I hear a bunch of young cunts telling me 'fuck you you socialist geezer, our political 'leaders' blew all the money you paid in, and besides you ain't owed shit...stand in line'. But I feel I'm 'entitled' to at least the principal amounts that were by law taken from my income(and the matching amounts that by law my employers were forced to pay on my behalf).


Someone who by their own choice, in order to trade in futures/commodities, placed money in an account that was managed by crooks and criminals inc. who 'vaporized' that someones money. Now 'someone' feels 'entitled' to a return of their money.


Maybe I'm biased, but I'm more sympathetic to the individuals in the first scenario. But again IMO both scenarios are a form of theft.


edit: from the FICA link above it says this:


The United States Supreme Court decided in Flemming v. Nestor (1960) that no one has an accrued property right to benefits from Social Security.


But yet we're still forced to keep paying into the scam...ain't that a bitch!

centerline's picture

There is nothing I can say that Leadnbrass hasn't already said so well above and below this post.

We both agree here though.  Of course what happened in big finance is criminal.  Gambling is gambling.  And gambling with other people's money without thier consent is criminal.  A system designed some 100 years based on perpetual growth is also criminal in my opinion - it exploits human nature.  But, the latter is a slippery slope that leads us into conversations about human nature, political structures, history, etc.  Lot's of places for predators to hide.

I am in my 40's and know I won't get a dime.  And I did not live in the same magical time period so long as to have even a snowball's chance in hell to stick a little something in the bank - own some decent property somewhere.  The word "pension" wasn't even in the corporate dictionary by the time I entered the professional workforce.

We all would like to rewind the clock or somehow get our money back.  But, that isn't going to happen and my time machine is out of plutonium.

It pisses me off that I am paying every day into this scam.  If I could opt out I would.  But, for now I trapped (forced) to play by these rules for the greater good of my family.

What is really annoying though - and is likely what is drawing you so much heat is that your generation is the one that refuses to take the red pill.  The one that still plays the same old red-blue, left-right game.    

The core fact here is that younger generations do not owe you anything.  If you are taken care of in your old age, it will be because of honor and love.  Not because of when you were born or because you got screwed.  We all are getting screwed and those born behind you are getting a even worse deal.  So, "stand in line" if you are going to take that angle.  It's a really long line too.

Disenchanted's picture



Thanks for responding and stating your position... +1


For the record I don't think that you younger people owe me anything. It's the political puppets(past and present, (R) or (D)), who sold us out and allowed the money we older folk have paid in(FICA taxes) to be spent on all sorts of things that benefitted a few special interests, that I'm taking to task.


Actually I've already resigned myself to the fact that whatever I've paid in the past and am still paying in FICA taxes I will never see any sort of 'return.'


As for... "The one that still plays the same old red-blue, left-right game." This homey don't play that shit any longer. I have no use for any of them.

centerline's picture

+1 from me.  The fact you are here at ZH already says alot.  My position was really aimed at a very simple concept that seems so pervasive in the baby boomer generation.  That is some odd sense of being "owed something" - and somehow connecting it younger generations.  Directly or by implying that mathematics can be ignored a little longer, damn the consequences.

I can sincerely appreciate the frustration that boomers are now feeling.  I really can.  But, I have yet to hear a boomer admit that while they are fucked - younger generations are beyond fucked.  AND, we never had the same odds to getting ahead as the boomer generation did.  Therefore, when boomers start the generation divide arguments, you will find some real heated arguments coming from it.

There are no easy answers here at all.  We are all going to have to work together.  Families and neighbors are going to have to take care of each other in ways that have not been common for a very long time now... out of honor and love - not obligation though.


edit -

Just wanted to add that our collective frustration needs to be aimed at the system... bankers and politicians to start.  Then work up the food chain.  The fact there have been no real prosecutions so far says everything we need to know about who has been doing the screwing all these years - and is continuing to do so.

Unfortunately, real damage has been done.  We now face real resource, population, and social problems.  These are real issues that we will have to face as well.  And, there are no easy answers.  The key though is not allowing ourselves to be divided any further.

Disenchanted's picture



"But, I have yet to hear a boomer admit that while they are fucked - younger generations are beyond fucked."


I'll admit it...hell I can see it in the form of my two daughters who are in their mid to late twenties. Both of them and their families are seriously struggling. I do what I can to help them, but right now I'm struggling myself to stay afloat. I see a dim future for all of us.


"Just wanted to add that our collective frustration needs to be aimed at the system... bankers and politicians to start.  Then work up the food chain.  The fact there have been no real prosecutions so far says everything we need to know about who has been doing the screwing all these years - and is continuing to do so.

...The key though is not allowing ourselves to be divided any further."


Absolutely! +1000


They don't want to see us united  

All they want us to do is fuss and keep on fighting  

They don't want to see us live together

All they want us to do is kill one another

~ Bob Marley - Top Rankin

ceedub's picture

People under 22-26 are currently the most fucked group in the country. There are no jobs for college graduates with good degrees.

Masters in mechicanl engineering with over a year of intern experience? Look for a job for 6 months and you finally get a temp job with no benefits.

We can't even begin our working careers much less worrying about fucking retirement. Most of us couldn't even fucking vote before the crash and you asshole old geezers want to push it on us and say we're fucking lazy. Sorry guy's but you boomers are the ones who drove the ship straight into the rocks.

And to the guy who said we were taught to love gays, nah man we just aren't retarded assholes. They are normal people not the big scary ooggaaboogaa AIDS machines your jesus instructor led you to believe.


jwoop66's picture


or the "banksters"

We no longer live in caves, but the basics are still the same.   You want meat and hides?  Go hunt.  Keep your hands off mine.

boogerbently's picture

My point is,

If you agree with my being screwed, then you are on the side of the govt. doing the screwing.


You deserve the same support when they screw you.

" the most peaceful time ever. " .....1953 until now??? (Korea, Viet Nam, Middle East...)

"I am owed something" crap..... Just the money I put in.

To me you, saying I "deserve it" is like saying all the victims of Madoff, Corzine, Knight, Peregrine, Geithner, Bernanke, Paulson......DESERVE it.

I'm sorry it's INCONVENIENT for you, at this time, but ending/reversing the screwing doesn't start with YOUR generation.


centerline's picture

Your not very good at math are you?  Or history?

Anyhow, no one here said the "screwing" was justified in any way.  And, I never said you deserve it.

What makes you think that we aren't all getting screwed and younger generations are going to have it even worse?  Younger generations know that they will not live as good as you did.  They know that life is going to get much harder than it was for you (already is, by the way).

It seems you think the younger generation is "turning against you."  LOL.  With that attitude you might be right, but will have created said outcome and at that point will deserve it.  Perhaps you should explore whatever character flaw makes you so easily turn against your (younger) neighbors.  This sort of selfish and misguided attitude is pervasive in your generation though.

FeralSerf's picture

How would you feel if the money you had in all of America's financial institutions was stolen and all the insurance programs like FDIC, SPIC, etc. were reneged on and you got nothing?  Ditto for your retirement, if any?  All the legal contracts that were a "store of value" were reneged on?  All your property were stolen?  History?

centerline's picture

That's what has been happening as a result of inflation all along.   Cash under the mattress was stolen outright.  Imagine I put a year's salary in a mason jar back in 1970.  Oops.

Reality is that we were forced to play the game.  Reality is that the funds are already toast - thier fate has been sealed.  Reality is that our property CAN be taken (just don't pay your property taxes and you will find out in a hurry).

I don't like any of this any more than you do (well, maybe you are a wierdo like that - lol).  But, I am not going to play dumb.  Nor am I going to blame my neighbor for anything more than not waking the hell up earlier!

We here are in a different position though.  We know something wicked is coming.  We can do something to prepare and can help those around who will listen do the same.

Green arrow up from me FS.

Lednbrass's picture

Look Sparky, you people didn't do a goddamn thing in the 40 years since Uncle Sam started screwing with Social Security. You had your fun and you partied for your entire lives on borrowed money without ever bothering to consider what impact it would have, or even if there would be enough people to pay for the grandiose and delusionary promises you made yourselves.

It is unconscionable that you literally want to feed off of your grandkids (well, those of you who could even be bothered to raise a next generation while pursuing your personal fulfillment at every step) and have literally turned economic child abuse into a retirement plan. Why not just show up at the playground in and shake nickels out of their pockets?

Those of us behind the two legged locust swarm known as the boomer generation already known damn well we won't get anything. The difference between me and you is that I would gladly take it in the teeth and write off my nearly 30 years of losses in order to keep the burden off of my kid's generation, you want to eat every last kernel of seed corn and drain every last drop of blood so that you get yours.

I suspect you will get yours alright, and will get it good and hard when the wheels fall off due to the insane demands of your generation on a structually broken economy and impoverished people behind you.

boogerbently's picture

My point is,

If you agree with my being screwed, then you are on the side of the govt. doing the screwing.


You deserve the same support when they screw you.

" the most peaceful time ever. " .....1953 until now??? (Korea, Viet Nam, Middle East...)

"I am owed something" crap..... Just the money I put in.

To me you, saying I "deserve it" is like saying all the victims of Madoff, Corzine, Knight, Peregrine, Geithner, Bernanke, Paulson......DESERVE it.

I'm sorry it's INCONVENIENT for you, at this time, but ending/reversing the screwing doesn't start with YOUR generation.

i-dog's picture


"If you agree with my being screwed, then you are on the side of the govt. doing the screwing"

Bzzzzt ... FAIL! ... non sequitor!

Insert another coin and try again.


To attempt to re-balance the argument ... no voter over the age of 20 who has benefited from any government largesse in their education or by way of other subsidies (fuel, iCrap, cheap mortgage, etc), has any right to criticise the boomers. Remember: Most of the $16 trillion in debt that funded all those things has been run up in just the last few years.

BooMushroom's picture

"...the last few years..."

Yes, yes it has. So now what? Let's just be honest. We're going to pay your Social Security with devalued dollars, we'll give you decades of medical treatment which will cost more than all the taxes you paid in your life, we'll give all the seed capital for new businesses to make up the difference, and when the last boomer is gone, those left behind will work wherever we can find someone from the new generation to give us cash. Our favorite hobby will be gardening: but it will be food, not roses. We will live with our children, or our grandchildren. We will forego life-saving treatments, because we have no money, and we won't drive our progeny into debt. And when our generation is gone, our grandchildren will look around and say...

"There should be some sort of safety net for old people, so they don't have to push themselves off on ice floes, like our grandparents did!". And the cycle will start again.

Disenchanted's picture



"you partied for your entire lives"


Yeah, it's been a real fucking fun party too. I'm living that blue collar workin man high life. /s



nmewn's picture where are we at here in this discussion?

We all agree government started programs, to fix percieved problems and has now only made them much worse and us more dependent on it, the government, as usual.

We all agree the majority of the population was not taught basic economics in the public school system. We all agree its counter productive to fight amongst ourselves over the scraps...the leftovers. We all agree its only possible because of printing money from thin air and the power that gives to the most corrupt among us.

Surely we must agree it has to end or be greatly pared back to end (both Medicare and SSI) at some point.

But lets at least start with either one. 

An age must be decided on at which the younger generation is not forced to pay in, the ponzi's must stop.

Disclaimer...I'm a Boomer.

centerline's picture

Nicely put.  The math is real and the issue we face now are not fun.  But, for the sake of the generations behind us, it is time to man-up and deal with it.  The boomer generation stands the best chance to pull this off.  Sheer numbers, connections, wisdom of years, etc.  Just have to get past the "hurt" of coming face to face with the truth.

In the short term, there is mountain of nasty things we are going to have to deal with.  I personally don't have much faith that we will find a civil way out of a good portion of the mess we are in.  Ponzi schemes don't usually end well.


nmewn's picture

Its gonna be tough centerline, on everybody.

centerline's picture

Yeah.  I can feel it coming.  Not sure how it plays out, but I expect I will be taking care of many people and the dynamics of everyday life are going to start really changing fast.  Right now feels more like suspended animation... artificial support that will result in even greater acceleration of change once the support is let loose or fails.


Anusocracy's picture


Well, the libertarians had a plan to end SS in the early 90s.

They wanted to sell the 1.2 million square miles of land and most of the buildings the federal government 'owns'.

The proceeds would have been used to buy out, set up annuities, or cut free everyone from Social Security.

The benefit would have been more money in workers' pockets and hopefully, smaller government.



nmewn's picture

Well, the problem with that is, the government used my money and/or my consent to force in order to aquire them in the first place. Its mine in part already.

Now, if they want to give me my title to my forty acres along a river bank in Yellowstone as payment in lieu of SSI, I'm down with that.

In other words, ferners need not apply for this one time special offer ;-)

FeralSerf's picture

If you're going to just steal people's money, why not steal the Koch Bros., the Rockfellers, the Romneys, the Bushes, the Cheneys, all the .01%ers' money to pay for the system?  They've gotten away quite nicely for years.  It's payback time!

If theft is necessary, is it not better, or at least not as bad, to steal from the few than the many?   Especially those few that have spent their lives stealing from the rest of us.

nmewn's picture

I'll assume you left out Soros, the Kennedy's, Kerry-Heinz and congressional pensions as an oversight ;-)

FeralSerf's picture

Not as an oversight, but because there isn't enough room in the post to list every one of those thieving mutherfukers.  Yeah, definitely them too!

BooMushroom's picture

That sounds like a fantastically good idea, right? But if you do the math, it doesn't quite work out:

FeralSerf's picture

Every little bit helps.  There's more places too.  Like Medicare Part D Big Pharma giveaway and SSDI given out freely to everyone that has some sort of addiction.   The U.S. Military's and government employees' exemption on payments to the system.  

jwoop66's picture


First it was society and their parents who owed them, now its future generations.   STFU!

Offthebeach's picture

Congress didn't steal. They openly passed legislation, that could of been repealed at any time. But they and you didn't want that because you wanted federal pork without the taxes.
And now here we are with the pork( who's going to give up their share? ) the taxes, the debts, a crappy economy and no kids to sucker off the debts onto.
Unexpectedly, of course.

boogerbently's picture

My point is,

If you agree with my being screwed, then you are on the side of the govt. doing the screwing.


You deserve the same support when they screw you.

" the most peaceful time ever. " .....1953 until now??? (Korea, Viet Nam, Middle East...)

"I am owed something" crap..... Just the money I put in.

To me you, saying I "deserve it" is like saying all the victims of Madoff, Corzine, Knight, Peregrine, Geithner, Bernanke, Paulson......DESERVE it.

I'm sorry it's INCONVENIENT for you, at this time, but ending/reversing the screwing doesn't start with YOUR generation.

i-dog's picture

If you're going to whine, then just do it once. Three times is ... how shall I say it? ... reeeeealy whiny!

boogerbently's picture

You're apparently not very bright.

I figured maybe if you read it a few times, you would understand that you are advocating the SAME kind of robbery you complain about in other aspects of finance/economy.

But I guess if it's YOU doing the screwing, you can rationalize it.

In this case, you ARE the same "sheeple" you condemn.

It also reminds me of myself when I was 20, and my attitude about "anyone over 30" during the Viet Nam War era.

I wonder if this "generational" thing is like the "Red Vs. Blue" thing. It distracts us from our real goal, fixing Washinton.



Offthebeach's picture

In private investment you are free to, or not to give you wealth to others, all or part.
Madoff promised by unclear methods to return year after year 2-300% MORE then industry standard. Hello.
No one believes SSI is an " investment ". It is a tax on workers to hand over/ buy off elderly. There is mo trust fund. It does not own any buildings, shares, investments like a private pension or insurance company.
You grew up in an economy that was undertaxed, low debt. Your SSI will be paid by over taxed, over debt younger workers. The only stealing that is and has gone on is the usual taxes are theft kind. Bowed that dollars flood/paper the world, fedgov can debase them and steal openly from anyone holding ever more printed dollars. So until others wise up to the scam, we have that going for us, which is nice.

boogerbently's picture

Ha, Ha

After the first clip, I thought you understood what I was saying.

After the next three, not so much.

Considering their audience, I understand why they put their message in cartoon form.

So, the govt. tells us they'll collect this $$$ all our working lives, and pay it back with interest. (because we're not responsible enough to do it ourselves.)

Then, 40 years later, we find out THEY have "borrowed" a great portion of that money (through irresponsible spending.)

Meanwhile (the last 40 years) we have saved less, because we have factored SS into our retirement plans.

Rather than take the money from the programs they funded with our SS, they convince the (young, gullible) next generation that the reason SS is underfunded is because of the sheer number of retirees Vs. the number of workers. When, in fact, the money to make up that difference was the surplus that was stolen.

If you can't understand this, at LEAST understand, they will start you on another program. It WILL be forced, and controlled by them. You don't think they'll just say..."we trust you to save your own money ", do you ?

They are not only brainwashing you into allowing us to get ripped off, but help in the process.


centerline's picture

Almost impossible to salvage anything here when the instinct is to be so binary.  Reality is that there is truth in all of it.  Above all, the mathematics of a system built on perpetual growth in a world of finite resource.  Nothing is forever, and even monetary systems come and go.  Nations rise and fall.

FYI, it sounds cowardly to suggest that the youth is allowing you to get ripped off.  The youth isn't even thinking about your SS check.  Right now they are trying to find jobs, make ends meet, take care of thier kids, etc.  Regarding the suggestion that young people are being elisted to "rip you off" - major dickhead statement there.



malek's picture

 reinstate the FULL SS tax currently reduced under the "Bush Payroll Tax Cut."

Try to get at least your basic facts straight.
SS payroll tax was "temporarily" cut and later extended by Obama.

jwoop66's picture

DUDE!  You've been lied to all your life.  You probably voted to continue the lie.  Statism and the concept that the govt can take care of you if you just pay more taxes is a lie!   Get over it, and prepare to take care of your self.

Seer's picture

"So it might not be about reaction time.  It is certanly about endurance."

Let's see how far that goes when you encounter a bear in the woods. :-()