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Appeals Court Finds Obamacare Mandate For Individual Health Insurance Unconstitutional
Another constitutional slap in the face for the constitutional scholar. Just out from Reuters: the 11th Circuit Court of "Appeals court rules that Obama's healthcare law's individual mandate to own health insurance unconstitutional." It has thus found in favor of the 26 states that challeneged a requirement that Americans should purchase health insurance. What next: Obama takes Obamacare to the Supreme Court? And just when the summer seemed like it may finally get boring for a change...
From Reuters:
A U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday that President Barack Obama's healthcare law requiring Americans to buy healthcare insurance or face a penalty was unconstitutional, a blow to the White House.
The U.S. Appeals Court for the 11th Circuit, based in Atlanta, found that Congress exceeded its authority by requiring Americans to buy coverage, but also ruled that the rest of the wide-ranging law could remain in effect.
The legality of the so-called individual mandate, a cornerstone of the healthcare law, is widely expected to be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. The Obama administration has defended the provision as constitutional.
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I'm surprised you watch that trash.
What do you expect to hear on cnbs?
Whatever side Big Pharma is betting on is the side I will go with.
Trust me when I say that Big Pharma is the most sophisticated kid on the block (in ways that few people can imgagine - see 'astroturfing' as just one example).
Astroturfing...interesting vocab word:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=astroturfing
Will the entire piece (of shit) legislation be tossed out, or only the individual mandate? Jena says yes, but I have reservations about that because of all of the other hidden taxation built into the bill. If the whole bill is tossed, then the US is really toast becuase the CBO had the bill's projected tax revenues baked into their baseline revenue projections. (If anyone had read the bill they would have discovered that there were scads of new taxes in it)
Time for another downgrade Amerika!
If the R's take back over the WH and maybe the senate the whole thing gets tossed..But god only knows what plans they have come up with to replace it?
They will simply put a new face to the coming Dictatorship. Only Totalitarianism will make us swallow the coming global currency...at least for a while.
We'll go back to the system in place prior to 1964-individual responsibility. Health care and good health are quite uncorrelated. Treating symptoms for big bucks is no replacement for good eating habits and daily exercise. I guess people were dropping like flies prior to the great society? Actually, we had less cancer, less heart disease, and less obesity and diabetis. LOL
What else could it be but war with Iran?
I think we have to wait to read the opinion about why the judges decided to read a severance clause in where one wasn’t included. The journalists seem to have access to it but the few sites I’ve checked have’t linked to it. Also not yet posted to 11th Circuit’s website (http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/todaysops.php), but that’s government at work, I guess. You’d think they’d get their ducks in a row on something like this.
Let them eat iPad
Anyone know how much they charge us to have the constitution printed on all of the toilet paper used in the beltway region??
The US Constitution is not self-enforcing; it is a mere piece of paper. If the people of the several sovereign States refuse to insist on its enforcement, it will not be enforced by the general government. After all, according to Mr. Jefferson, the document is intended to bind a singularly dangerous beast that doesn't wish to be bound. Beasts seek to avoid chains . . . remember that the next time you expect the President, Congress, or the courts to voluntarily abide by the document. I think anti-Federalist Patrick Henry got it right long ago . . .
And the dissent?
The majority "has ignored the undeniable fact that Congress' commerce power has grown exponentially over the past two centuries and is now generally accepted as having afforded Congress the authority to create rules regulating large areas of our national economy," Marcus wrote.
Quite brilliant lol.
Unconstitutional bitchez!
this news is BEARISH gold
Please show us where the Constitution expressly grants the federal government power to provide medical care, or make any law regarding medical care!
TENTH AMENDMENT BITCHEZ!!!
Ron Paul for Prez Bitchez!!!
+US v. Lopez
So is the telepromter going to give another speech today to contradict this?
Eat your peas
Aside: This is THE best site on the net. Thank you TD, and keep it up. Cheers.
UH OH!
I smell a hasty call for an official TOTUS reading coming 3 2 1...
Mandate?
Unidentified Mexican Bandit
Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948)
Well that's just fooking great... Obama and a democratically controlled house and senate wasted 2 fooking years working on an unconstitutional piece of crap legislation that the public didn't want (check the polls done on this) while the economy was gettin' fooked and everyone was getting fooking fired.
Fook me man!
Hey Bullshit Barry Soetoro, You Didn't Even READ the Bill
Maybe if any of those political bitches, including Obama Bin Lyin' had written or even read any of the 2400 pages written by Health Insurance and pharmaceutical corporation lackeys and lobbyists...
Our over paid, bribed and corrupt political bitches would have had a clue that it was unconstitutional...
Can you Americans please do us a favour and LEAVE GERMANY ?!
We don't want to feed your hoard of G.I. barbarians here who have occupied our country.
There is a saying in Germany:
Fisch und Besuch stinken nach 3 Tagen.
Fish and visitors start to smell after 3 days.
We know for a fact that the U.S. army is a bunch of lawless thugs.
Abu Ghraib and the Private Manning video showed it to the whole world.
And while we are at it:
Dissolve NATO, it's redundant.
HA-HA-ha
Our Fed government is going to leave them behind just like the Soviets left their soldiers in East Germany after our empire collapses...
Then our poor boys will have to trade weapons, RPG's, radar and drones to get tickets home...
I know this is so wrong, but I can't help myself. To hell with every member of the voluntary military, from the lying Generals to the dumb ass flag waiving buck provates. May they each rot in hell for eternity. I put this class of people right there with the bankers except some military members are more naive. Learning to kill, preparing to kill, and equipping oneself to kill people for money and false honor is morally wrong from beginning to end. Live and die by the sword.
Actually, we'd love to bail on Europe. Tired of paying for it. Not that we don't like you.
Alas, Germany wants them there to boost your economy and cut European defense spending in half to 2.5% GDP so you can buy more beer. If Europe had to fully fund their own defense, European socialism wouldn't have lasted this long, so we apologize for enabling all of you. Our bad.
Main instigator of "NakedGate" @ Abu Graib was Lyndie England, a female reservist who got called up from the farm, not even regular army, and she got 10 years for what she did. Pvt Manning is a transgender malcontent, very Euro chic, but not exactly thug material. yes, compared to the Taliban cutting off heads of babies, these two are indeed monsters.
I feel quite certain of the following holocausts perpetrated by the west, there were one or two babies likely suckling their mother's breast when the freedom and democracy loving west incinerated them:
Dresden (40k dead)
Japan nuclear bombs (200k dead)
I suppose we weren't targeting non-combatant citizens at the above two events?
I heard a military member/teacher at the war college say the following regarding citizen non-combatants dying in war: in effect, the way the rules are written, absolutely no charges can be made against POTUS for the unwanted deaths of citizen non-combatants in war regardless of the number. POTUS could target every living being in Afghanstan this moment and be within the law. Suck on that you self-righteous Americans.
The American penchant to morally elevate itself above the actions of "Islamo Fascists" is putrid by any metric.
Read the Mahabarata, even Krishna (arguably, the Hindu god of love) himself, exhorted his disciple, Arjuna to fight in a war. Perhaps you should figure out why.
Hypocrisy is not the same crime as being unmerciful.
I am not in favor of an individual mandate or other mechanism to compel people to pay for health insurance. This idea is antithesis to individual freedom.
At the same time, as long as we insist the medical delivery system provide service to anyone in need, regardless of the ability or willingness to pay, then we have a conundrum.
A reasonable, empathetic society needs to decide, either pay for those who are unwilling/unable to pay for health care or refuse to provide service unless you can prove ability to pay, insurance or otherwise. You cannot have it both ways. Where we are now, with lots of people using but not paying (or under paying) into the system, leads to bankruptcy of the system. Our medical delivery system is close to insolvency now, the cost of insurance and medical care is near unaffordable for many.
Obamacare is not a good approach, difficult decisions must be made … and soon.
sschu
You bring up a good point. This whole debate is analogous to Illegal immigration: Open borders or a welfare state: Choose one, you cannot have both!
It seems like ALL Progressive/Socialist ideas to fix a problem always lead to an illogical conclusion: We want to have our cake AND eat it too!
What's with all the Obama campaign ads on this site?
Do I need to do a web search for flowers or something to get those changed?
Firefox and Adblocker... I see nothing but ZH....
Only a fool operates in MS Windows...or Dickwad salesman Jobs App-Ho...
If you ain't Linux... You ain't....
+1000! I see these queens at the grocery check out line fanning out their deck of credit cards to see which one they might use and it they can't find it they will call some dude to get a number and have the clerk enter it manually (I guess these numbers come from a stash of other available cards). It always makes me wonder if this is how the downfall of america will come about. It is being stolen dollar by dollar at grocery stores, Wal-mart and others and we don't even realize it. What are the odds I could just run up my credit cards and by gold and no one would come after me if I didn't pay?
I wish they would also do this with social insecurity.
+100000
I was over weight and started to have diabetes and reflux and I do have a hyantal hernia. Guess what it woke me up. I lost 85lbs and no longer have diabetes type 2. I broke my back and thought I could not do anything and the doctors will basically tell you all the time be careful and more drugs. No more diabetes or reflux after cutting out some of the fried, more spicier foods. Responsibility goes a long way.
My cholesterol is 132 and my doctor tells me we need to look into the future and get your cholesterol to 70. I said doc that is impossible without drugs. Mine is below the norm. He states well you are 60 and we may want to lower it for your future age. I told him I like my liver thank you and I am still doing fine. Walking for 30 mins to an hour works wonders.
I am a die hard conservative. But if the government had actually dealt with the systems instead of having the special interest write it and then pass it without reading it. I may change my view but in its current form all it is doing is ripping everyone off.
Google "The cholesterol Myth" by Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD, It is frightening the side effects of statin drugs and how Big Pharma and the Gov are striving to have even children take this poison. Everyone should take charge of their own health and quit believing the BS from mainstream medicine. Notice how butter, raw milk and yes, even lard are back in the news? We've been poisoned for many years from soy and canola oils - but hey, it was good for Big Ag! Reference the recent raid in California over posession of raw milk products. coming to a neighborhood near you. Remember - if you see someone drinking raw milk for God's sake say something - they may be a prepper terrorist!
Gotta say, I've never understood the desire to live until a "ripe" old age. You're 60. You've shot your load. All your best years are behind you.
You really need a weather man to know which way the wind blows?
Why the fuck do you get your cholesterol checked?
Try this - lean up. I don't mean "I lost 85 pounds, look at me!" I mean fight club lean. I mean no flab on your belly or love handles.
Then eat real food. No prepackaged shit.
Stay away from sugars and high index complex carbs like potatoes.
Eat everything in moderation.
Work with your hands and body everyday.
Don't watch TV or spend too much time on the Internet.
And stop thinking about your health.
When you die, you die. You're 60. What's your goal? 90?
"Don't watch TV or spend too much time on the Internet."
‘cepting ZH of course.
Have done this at 59--am in better shape than 20s and 30s. 6'5" 245 w/less than 10% body fat. Ready for the revolution . . .
+1
Grow what you eat... Pick it and eat it on the spot... You would be amazed at your health and sanity levels...
BTW: You are wrong about potatoes... Grow and eat German browns and Yukon golds and DON'T BE AN IDIOT WHO SKINS THEM... They are highly nutritious...
I get tired of these Atkins morons who know zero about nutrition...
wouldn't taxation without representation fall under same unconstitutionality?
i will not pay taxes for QE (to theNth).
I will not pay taxes for Obamacare.
I will not pay taxes for anti-progressive taxation wealth redistribution ie wealth inequality.
And the list goes on... Sales tax is sufficient, if monies are correctly allocated, which they won't be while not giving away gazzilions for market manipulations rather than social/infrastructure/etc.
This place is massively fucked up!
Won't the Supreme Court over-rule this since "Corporations are people too?" ....
Willard Romney says so...
Jesse's Café Américain: Mitt Romney to Iowa Voters: "Corporations Are People"
To the Teleprompter Tyrant, a dictatorship is also constitutional!
The constitution has never stopped them before.
Just got a nice double eagle in the mail this week. Amazing what $20 looked like before the constitution became merely a suggestion to follow. Maybe they could make a new one to fit with today's society.
"We the Corporations of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect serfdom, establish justice against all individuals that aren't on a board of directors, insure our corporate interests and provide for the common defence of our banker's annual bonuses, promote the general welfare at hard-working people's expense, and secure the Blessings of Liberty onto any country that dare speak against the Federal Reseve Note, do ordain and establish this corporate Constitution for the Neutered States of America"
I like RP
N G sounded good to me last night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoVlcWvxffc&feature=feedf
Uploaded by bstill3 on Aug 12, 2011
Unveiling a new 6-Step pathway to free ourselves from the shackles of the national debt system.
Ok, so the government can't require that you buy health insurance in the same way that states can require that you purchase car insurance. Then, the government should then be able to ask all of those refusing to insure themselves to sign a waiver saying that should they require medical attention, that they agree to bear the burden of the cost all on their own. Simple. Americans are fucking stupid with their "rights"
Before commenting on how "stupid" American's are with their stupid "rights", perhaps you aught to know what you're taking about before you open your pie hole and belch forth noxious gas.
The "government" in this case is the Federal Government. While Massachusetts (a state government, in case you didn't know) *can* require you to purchase insurance, the Federal Government can't. That is not it's purpose and function to do so.
Those stupid "rights" are within the power of the individual states (or the people) and up to the people in those states to take care of their own social problems as they see fit. It is not up to the people of New York or California or Texas etc. to use the power of the Federal Governemnt to force their neighbor states to do what they think is "right".
...perhaps you aught to know what you're taking about before you open your pie hole and belch forth noxious gas.
I suggest you do the same thing dumbass.
Why does it take a truckload of lawyers, years of lawsuits, mountains of treasure, and a few egomaniacal judges to tell us what is so patently and fundamentally obvious?
Answer: Because tyranny cares not about constitutionality!
This is an absolutely asinine comment.
It wasn't "patently and fundamentally obvious" as you put it. Over the years, SCOTUS has permitted the expanse of the federal government and eroded the power of the States under the 10th Amendment to resist federal regulations. This has occurred mostly through the commerce clause which, until such cases as U.S. v. Lopez, was used as a tool to intervene in any state interest under the theory, however disconnected from reality, that the target of the law sought to effect interstate commerce. Thankfully, there are some circuit court judges that have the huevos to push back. This is an example of the system working. And you make this condescending point for what purpose? Fuck off.
You're BOTH right!
I doubt the 11th Circuit Court read the whole monstrosity, so it boggles the mind how they could say the rest of the bill can stand as is. Besides, the Democrats, in their haste to shove this cluster-F down the throats of the people, failed to put a sever-ability clause in the legislation.
This decision (if upheld by the Supreme Court) makes Obamacare impossibly expensive in that insurance companies can not deny preexisting conditions yet people can simply wait till they get terribly sick before they sign up for insurance. This voids a crucial and fundamental tenet of the law, changing it's intent altogether, thus shouldn't the whole be struck?
That's the sort of news the economy needs for a shot in the arm.
Hope the Surpemes decide the same way right before the 2012 election.
"Resist we much!" -- Al Sharpton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE5ZDBqNcYE
Al Shartpon: 'Resist, We Much, We Must And We Will Much..."
that was sooooooooooooooo fucking funny and worth it!!
You got it brother chumba! That how it could play out if it gets there before 2012. Though I don't think Scalia would be the one to snarf your comment. Likely JPS.
This mandated insurance was crap when Romney passed it in MA.
Unless we get our noses out of the stratosphere and adopt some kind of single-payer healthcare system (like in Europe, or the V.A.) the system will be financially unsustainable!
... the system will be financially unsustainable!
THEN LET IT DIE. People will start taking care of their health or die, and I don't care which.
No, I DON'T care if someone ruins their health and DIES. GOOD FUCKING RIDDANCE.
Can you buy insurance with food stamps?
SilverFiend,
NO, not yet anyway.
BUT, you CAN NOT purchase it if you pay a $750.00 fine to the IRS,per person,(may be wrong here) single,and $2500.00 for a couple?.
HAHAHAHAHA - obamacare = fucking joke
So since the CBO Medicare projections (and therefore deficit projections) were reduced (I know that's nuts, but is it true) on the assumption that Obamacare would reduce costs by $210B over the next 10 years, will the deficit projections go up if/when this is overturned by the Supremes?
Somehow, I doubt it.
More importantly, will the unfunded liability for Medicare in the US Govt Financial Statements (http://www.gao.gov/financial/fy2010/10frusg.pdf see page 21) return to its prior level of $38.107 trillion? That's where it was in 2009. But Obama reduced it in 2010 to $22.813 trillion because of all the "savings" from Obamacare.
Sadly, this ruling only Declares ONE part Unconstitutional.
The worst parts are left intact.
This ruling only say's that it's Unconstitutional for a mandate that citizens MUST buy Health Care Insurance.
Better than nothing, but not what I had hoped for.
Of course it will still wind up in front of SCOTUS.
It's very simple, the feds need to create their own health insurance company, that offers much better service at much lower rates. Totally voluntary. As more people sign up, the whole operation can be made profitable, and deliver much better service to Americans, who currently pay three times as much per capita, for what is clearly a third world, subprime healthcare system.
Fuck all American health care insurance companies. They are crooks and mafia.
Underpants gnomes hard at work here. So the fullproof plan looks like this??
1. Create healthcare system
2. ???
3. Profit
I believe Obama knew mandatory insurance purchase would be struck down, leaving insurance companies with all the other expensive provisions, driving them to bankruptcy, screaming for government help.
Obamacare is a trojan horse way of nationalizing the American medical system.
And no it's not "healthcare".
That would be great if that were the case. No one yet has been able to convince me how the healthcare operating in a for profit capital environment has been able to provide efficient healthcare. Healthcare statistics in America bear that out. Providers have been able to gain massive profits however.
People like this (http://i.imgur.com/TV3mR.png) are going to be voting Obama in if you don't take to the polls for the Republican primary and vote Ron Paul.
Canadian doctors have my 80 year old Dad on statins. He has lost muscle mass but he is in great shape so he thinks the statins are responsible for his good health. When I was a teenager he was against me smoking pot.
Forcing people to buy health insurance seems completely un-American to me.
And in my experience, too much health care can be very bad for your health. Medical mistakes killed my grandmother and recently one of my co-workers (who wasn't even 40). The US spends a far higher percentage of its GDP on health care than any other country. But it isn't even in the top 20 in terms of life-expectancy. I personally avoid doctors and hospitals as much as possible.
Considering that the Supreme Court is bought and paid for just like Congress and the Oval Office, I'm pretty sure we'll have the "Individual Mandate" served to America people on a silver platter. "Check please!"
Bullish news for those healther nations competing with the USA.
A sick people with a sick economy,
Now pardon me while I eat the rest of my peas.
Wow for once a bit of good news. I guess we're not beyond the point of no return.
Obama can always decide to just fine the human resources without Obama care and give part of it to the health care industry
Doesn't mean anything. I'm certain the interstate commerce clause is the basis of health care reform. Besides, I want Republican and teabaggers to start getting all of their science, including medical science from Rush Limbaugh. Any vaccine, medical procedure, medical device that Rush has created or patented with his big ol' high school diploma, Republicans and teabaggers get limited to going to Rush for their health care. Let's calculate how much RushCare will save.
Score another one for the GIPPER against the fascist Greenies.
Fed Judge say's YES, BLM Jack Boots - Score ZERO.
Just one more reason we have screwed ourselves in regards to energy policies.
<http://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/Federal-judge-throws-out-Obama... >
PPACA being held constitutional is a necessary but not sufficient condition for Obama being reelected. And if PPACA is ruled unconstitutional, that seems to be a sufficient (but not necessary) condition for the Republican candidate to be elected.
So much for the separation of powers: the Chief Justice could, with sufficiently cynical judicial maneuvering, decide the fact of the Presidential election.
Regardless of what the President promises his citizens, it is an undeniable fact that many of his reforms and policies will be met with resistance from both his opposition and the courts. The insurance thing is just the beginning.
Chris - http://americanvisitorinsurance.com