Daniel Hannan Channels Upton Sinclair, Warns "All The Options From Here Are Bad"
"All the options from here are bad, I am afraid" is how MEP Daniel Hannan describes the way forward in Europe in this FOX News interview. In one of the clearest and least status-quo-hugging explanations of what has occurred (gentile and bloodless coups in Italy and Greece), the 'cruel and irresponsible behavior' of European leaders stuns him and all in the name of the 'wretched single-currency'. When asked why they (the EU leaders) just don't get it (channeling Upton Sinclair's now infamous quote), Hannan replies "It is remarkably difficult to make a man understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" as he makes it clear that the vested interests in keeping the Euro going (well paid and powerful government jobs for example) means they are prepared to inflict this shocking poverty on the Mediterranean countries. Summing it up nicely: until they leave the Euro, the Greeks have got no light at the end of the tunnel, making the point that Greece's least painful option is to Default, Decouple, and Devalue.
Starting from around 0:55, the European Member of Parliament begins his less than sanguine discussion:
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Greece wont default, so plan accordingly.
Their politicians put into power won't let them default. The people WILL Default
That's why the Greek default is so scary, the political will is dead against the default. If if happens regardless, it means that the have totally lost control of the situation. This will be the reason behind the panic after a Greek default, and this is why Greece cannot be contained. The fallout is more political than financial at this point.
Revolution. The killing will commence.
America will have its turn, get ready.
Nah... don't think so. Our manufactures are returning home. The slopes can't keep us in asia when the dollar sinks, so we will rebuild our base.
The whole exercise of musical chairs may stop for a while, but USA will be fine. We got two oceans, oil, hard workers and we are gonna vote out the idiot child and his commie buddies in a few months.
We'll be back on top while your socialist fucktards are trying to figure out how we keep doing that.
Well, Chief, I hope the Braves will win it this year, but I has my doubts. I got some doubts about the manufacturing thing too. But, holy cow scoop, Ghostrider, I hope ur right about the Bummerman!
there is light at the end of the tunnel for lazy, greasy greeks only when they stop lounging in cafes pretending to work and actually start producing.
My my, aren't we superior?
@trav7777
since when is working as a wage slave or indentured servant the goal in life?
Isn't 30 years of work enough? Why do some assholes believe we have to work till 67 or more?
Why, because they are debt slaves to the banks, and have to pay their mortgage forever??
It's such a death spiral.... what a vicious cycle.
My advice: get out of debt and live an easy simple life. Dont buy things you cant afford.
Try to exist outside of socialist state programs. Be independent. Dont expect anything, dont
impose anything.
Life is easy, why do we make it so hard?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21j_OCNLuYg
We dont need to be consumer bitches... we want to have a poor but free life.
its so easy.
Too many people's careers in the West now depend on being state-paid busybodies hectoring the citizenry on how to live.
The greeks will produce soon enough, probably a revolution. Meanwhile, if you are in the u.s., you can observe laziness enabled on a scale that foreigners could only dream of.
I guess you can't call the 'baristas' lazy...
Have you ever produced anything Trav? Aren't you a trader? ;-)
And Trav what do you produce other than anonymous hate-screeds on the internet?
1) There is no such thing as a sovereign default. The bond holders don't accept a declaration of default because there is no bankruptcy court to force them to. They keep sending bills demanding payment, forever. So default doesn't do anything for Greece other than let them skip some payments and not be able to borrow money to fund pensions and government employee paychecks -- given no one will lend to them within 24 hrs of default declaration and a deficit requires borrowing.
2) The choice is endure that calamity NOW or go along with the EU's plan and stretch out the pain to a lesser amount for a longer time and even provide themselves with a bit of hope that a miracle will appear and end the pain altogether. After all, about 50% of their debt is about to be forgiven so this approach of extend and pretend is about to yield results.
Based on these two realities, why would they default?
The debtor's "miracle" you refer to is, of course, death.
There's no legal framework for a default of sovereign Greek bonds, no. But the practical result would be that the bonds become worthless, illiquid nothings that CAN'T be held as "assets" on a balance sheet. The losses must be acknowledged. No way to extend, pretend, mark-to-model, whatever. There's no collateral. They go to zip. The bondholders can keep sending bills, but it would be like billing the Confederate States of America. Good luck with that.
Why would Greece default? They get fed up with the EU threatening their sovereignty, their Abrams Tanks aren't defending the Motherland so hot, so they tell the EU to fuck off and takes their chances.
Why would they default? That's not the question. Why would they stay in the euro? If they return to the drachma, they can value drachmae at parity with euros and print the money to pay back their debts. The drachma would immediately lose half its value, but Greece loses ALL of its debt, and best of all, they utterly shaft the thugs at the ECB who hold most of their debt.
What's not to like?
They've already lost access to international debt markets, 25% of the country's businesses have shut down, and Greeks are fleeing in droves. What have they got to lose?
To me it is obvious. The Drachma would be instantly worthless. They would have instant hyperinflation nobody would trade with them for anything. They would be an instant Zimbabwe. For the greek people it would be a complete nightmare. The Greeks have to keep suffering this constant humiliation and finger pointing and everything else because they have no option they have to beg Europe to solve their debt problem because outside the Euro is instant financial doom.
Yeah, default is not a viable option. It didn't work in Iceland and it won't work in Greece, either.
But the Iceland economy is recovering nicely and Fitch just raised their credit to BBB.
Greece has a lot of assets that will attract the currency to augment what they can't produce locally. The greeks got a solid ship works infra structure - the ageans - their culture. The bailout would require a lot of that stuff to be auctioned off. The drachma might be worthless outside greece, but it would work inside greece.
Lets not forget - the bets were made between politicians - and banks like goldmans that wrote up the placement docs with sexed up debt service analysis and banker off book gimmicks , and then - not too unexpectedly the GS bet against the placement / structure note they sold as a service to the greeks. Look what GS did for Ghadafi - someday someone somewhere is not going to rollover so willingly when the GS plays em - some people and cultures take that shit personal.
Iceland told scam insiders the bet was with the bankers so investors need to settle with the bankers. The bankers failed to markup the risk - fiduciary malfeasance nullifies the consignor's liability as the "full faith and credit" source of last resort, Iceland turned around a lot quicker than those who went for the IMF teat. PIMCO's Gross advised the Greeks to default. If that happened the GS would have pay the CDS claims - and that's the real reason this never ending charade of default mitigation is dragging on - the CDS writers are looking for the bucks to pay the bond holders that bought the paper GS placed. The greeks never had nothing to do with it - it's always been an argument over what a "default" is. At what haircut level does the global CDS arbitrator call a default and GS has to pay up to it's CDS counter parties - it's getting redicked to max - last proposed default state scenario was defined as a less than 50% return of principal to bond holders.
Greeks don't need the EZ - after all, they're greeks - but GS - GS needs to cover its ass,
"we got oil" that's a good one... lol
well maybe for evey one returning 10 are leaving-big whoop
If you mean "killing" literally...how will the Greeks kill the EU bankers?
The Greeks should burn everything to the ground. Leave the creditors nothing but ashes and rocks.
I posted a video of Greece the other day...pretty pictures of lots of old ruins...now they will have new ruins...
They'd just be doing the new owners a favor.
Other than the Parthenon, Greece is pretty much a tear down anyway.
Investment tip: Halliburton (the eternal ambulance chasers)
Yeah, because the willfully ignorant, lazy Greek that thinks he can retire at 50 and live off a government pension and healthcare until he's 90 or 95 has no culpability in this mess...
I love Americans, especially the ones who think its natural to work 80+ hours a week with 10 days off a year. As if its natural.
Lazy Greeks? Maybe they just understand something you don't? Or maybe not. Either way. I hope all that "hard work" is worth it in the end.
Everyone should go to school to be in IB, make tons of money, get addicted to hookers and coke and then tell everyone else they are lazy. My roommate is an accountant who comes home after 14-16 hr days, complains that his job sucks but can't wait for that 15% bonus to spend on some broad who doesn't call him back after hitting skins because he's a boring schmuck who's sold his soul. Faust was saved because his goals were noble.
We're happy to let anyone work as much or as little as they want -- just so their consumption remains in line with production. If you don't want to consume anything, you're free to not work at all. If you want stuff others have produced, your time is your bid.
At least that's traditional America. Modern America, god knows.
My dad worked until he was 72 and died two monthes after retiring. Americans are wired to work themselves to death.
I took early retirement. Thanks for the wakeup call Dad!
...american's aren't lazy...what's your trade deficit at now? for that matter how much money have you borrowed from china?...your not lazy...just dumb as stumps
a best friend's mother-in-law makes $73 hourly on the computer. She has been laid off for 6 months but last month her income was $14399 just working on the computer for a few hours. Go to this web site and read more .... LazyCash9.com
Every nation who has at least III percent of its people desiring to be free should follow Iceland's lead and refuse to service any debt originated by fractional reserve banking practices.
Yes, there would be an initial shock to the system, but this would quickly cull what are 90% of the useless banking/financial institutions, 100% of the harmful fractional reserve central banks, and each and every nation so doing would quickly be on a path towards real, non-debt based, economic growth and real wealth creation, forcing a necessary discipline of choosing to live within one's means (while avoiding the forced indebted serfdom that fractional reserve credit schemes allow) and balancing those means with the inherent talent, skills and abilities of the members of the society.
It doesn't take more than III percent in order for such awakenings and rebirths to happen.
III percent is and always has been the critical mass level that overwhelms existing, corrupted systems.
III percent involvement mean that genuinely concerned leaders in industry, government, military and yes, even financial institutions have seen a future that is far better and more sustainable, and they have already banded together, along with supporters from the grass roots of society, to plan the new, debt free system.
Iceland is just the latest example in history (of many) that proves that debt-based economies are unsustainable and antithetical to true democracy and sovereignty.
+ 1 Truth, very interesting post.
I have seen estimates of between 1% - 3% of Americans who own non-jewelry gold. If we get to the point of having over 3% here owning gold, that would parallel your discussion of III percent.
Very good!
This is why FDR (despite all the distractionary excuses provided) confiscated gold, as it was becoming a threat to the monopoly that were Federal Reserve Notes [in reality, certificates of indebtedness], the only legally recognized form of payment for all debts both public and private (a racket that the global fractional reserve central banking outfit couldn't afford to lose). I have no doubt this would happen again if similar events unfolded now.
By the way, all PIIGS bonds should from now on be sold in the form of instant, scratch & win/lose lotto tickets.
In fact, all bonds of any nation with an economic structure and government borrowing scheme relying on fractional reserve central banks, should be in this form. It would make for more efficient bond sales vs auction and provide the bonus of instant gratification/disappointment.
Try to have this discussion with 3% of the people you know....
Is your country a sovereign country?
Well, yes.
Does it have the power to coin money?
Well, yes.
Then why is it in debt? Why does it have to borrow money to exist instead of simply printing it, debt free?
Huh?
Take a look at your paper money. Was it printed by your government or by a bank?
Well, it says Bank of........
Is your country a sovereign country?
{silence. conversation over}
Then why is it in debt? Why does it have to borrow money to exist instead of simply printing it, debt free?
How would *you* answer that question?
Greece, Ireland Can’t Copy Iceland Default Model, Sigfusson Says.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-15/greece-ireland-can-t-default-like-iceland.html
.... "follow Iceland's lead and refuse to service any debt originated by fractional reserve banking practices.".
Link please.
Do I really care what Sigfusson says?
Do you?
(It's hilarious that Sigfusson claims in that Bloomberg article that Iceland "didn't have the ability to save its banks," by the way. Sure they could have; the same way the U.S. saved many banks here in 2008 - screw the taxpayers over and transfer monies through various schemes to prop the banks up. That claim alone puts his credibility into serious question.)
I've already had this discussion with you.
I've already cited links (look them up) for you specifically, as to how Iceland refused to acknowledge too-big-to-fail banks, allowing many of them to die.
If you understood that many of those banks held Icelandic debt in the form of sovereign bonds, because they were formerly part of a fractional reserve banking network, you would realize what happened to that aggregate debt upon their demise.
What do you think would happen if the U.S. declared the primary dealers, including Goldman Sachs & JP Morgan as 'on their own,' and furthermore, decided, under a new financial/monetary framework, not to acknowledge the legality of their right to collect payment on US Treasury Notes that they held?
Let me break it down even more simply for you:
What do you think would happen if the U.S. Government revoked The Federal Reserve Act and declared all U.S. Treasury Bonds held by The Federal Reserve Bank as null & void?
@TruthinSunshine
Your comments were just simply great and easy for even the dummies to understand. Really good stuff.
Footnote: Iceland was upgraded today. Why, basically because they told Goldman to Fuk themselves.
Yes. I saw that.
I am not one to easily buy into conspiracy theories, but when I see regurgitated statements offering up claims that Iceland was able to do what it did because it's a small, homogeneous nation, and that its path could not be forged by larger, more diverse nations, I have every reason to believe it's a sock puppet effort by bank and government bots to tamp down talk of their worst fears; that average people awaken to the fact that not only could far larger and diverse nations follow Iceland's example, but it would benefit the overwhelming majority (and to an incredibly significant degree) of their citizenry financially and in terms of regaining the ability to wrest themselves free of schemes to perpetually indebt them by those who have been making monopolistic profits by doing nothing except implementing Deep Capture of these nations' legislative and regulatory bodies (and the case of the United States, the executive and judiciary branches of government, as well).
+100
Gold Confiscation was a myth.....completely misunderstood and used today to sell pricey coins...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuMmQX2TWoQ
TIS, excellent post and prescient presentation of the probable solution.
Well said ETF, and quite true. when [not if] it happens here, the picture will be quite different from Greece. The Greeks are armed only with petrol bombs........'nuff said.
Look at the percentages that Ron Paul is getting, especially in Maine, which didn't even COUNT its votes. The bastards. (They don't even deserve to be called bitchez.)
I have had talks with people who were all-out Romney, Gingrich, Santorum, Obama people just weeks ago. They are beginning to turn toward libertarianism as they watch the trained monkeys in Congress. (And please no racist tangents about the White House, it only serves to undermine our message.) And with libertarianism we get real money that the Constitution actually approves. I'm hoping we're getting closer to people actually taking things into their own hands and voting with their money and their futures, not just with some piece of paper in a ballot box.
"People shouldn't be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
Thanks for yet another brilliant post.
Iceland is to be admired for their actions, but in practice this theory doesn't hold water. There is nothing magic about 3%, it worked in Iceland because they have a small population. The change ushered in by the American Revolution took 12% of the population, was well organized, relied on the highly effective insurgency model, and their rich French Uncle helped out, a lot.
I just think it will take far more than 3% (who actually grasp the realities) and are willing to stand up and not just set things on fire and act like animals. Unless, of course, we don't care about mass death and reducing our inner cities to smoking craters as this paradigm shift takes place...
Agreed. Additionally, nearly everyone in Iceland is related as well. The type of action they took is much easier to accomplish in such an insular, mostly-homogenous society. Whether you like it or not, these characteristics all contributed to the success of the action in Iceland.
Their smaller and homogenous population doesn't make it "easier" to resist the banks. The fact it's a physically smaller space just means the peasants see their members of the elite every day on the streets of Reykavik and viscerally feel the inequality between the 1% and them. And know it is undeserved.
III percent in Iceland is III percent in modern America is III percent in colonial America (former territories of the British Empire and that didn't like it at all), is III percent in pre-Bastille storming France.
It didn't take 12% of the colonial population to plant the seed thatgave rise to the American Revolution. It took a handful of forward looking thinkers, who saw the injustice of their current plight and dire plight that would be their future, unless they planted that seed and nurtured it, so that it would grow robustly and break the shackles of indentured servitude to a Monarchy-enabled fractional reserve banking Ponzi (that had already begun to wrap its talons tightly around the people of England via blackmailing, bribing or killing the members of her legislative bodies and judiciary).
I'll tell you what; answer the following question for me (1 question to start with), and let me judge your answer, based on my own knowledge or lack thereof, as a quid pro quo:
What % of Americans today do you believe truly understand how our nation finances its year-to-year operations?
Oh, oh, this is an easy one! May I?
Q: "What % of Americans today do you believe truly understand how our nation finances its year-to-year operations?"
A: The 3% that buy non-jewellery GOLD
The Iceland government refused to bail out the Iceland banks, the banks went broke and the bankers went back to work on the fishing boats.
That was 3 years ago and the Iceland economy is recovering nicely. Fitch just raised their credit to BBB.
Immovable object (the thought that Greece won't default) meets unstoppable force (reality).
Yes, it will be quite a show.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Douglas Adams
Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms.
Aristotle
The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits.
Plutarch
The great thieves lead away the little thief.
Diogenes
Excess of liberty, whether it lies in state or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery.
Plato
Fascism is capitalism in decay.
Vladimir Lenin
Fascism is capitalism plus murder.
Upton Sinclair
Fascism is a religion. Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini
Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.
John Adams
I might add; Upton Sinclair's line "It is remarkably difficult to make a man understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" was directly lifted from Tomas Jefferson. Sorry, I cant find a source.
How u know this?
Youre probably right, Greece wont 'default', that would be too easy to call. What will happen is now that the central banks have bought everything with free money, we'll get WW3 one morning soon, best thing ever for a banker is world war.
Oh, but I am planning accordingly! I'm buying one-year Greek bonds using cash advances from my JPMorgan credit cards! I literally cannot lose!
One of the best video speeches I've seen.
"until they leave the Euro, the Greeks have got no light at the end of the tunnel"
and.. Until Americans leave the Federal Reserve Note, they have got no light at the end of the tunnel.
He couldnt be more wrong.
Stay in the Euro, just get paid in less of them FFS. The Dracma would be living hell for them
Have you seen the hell they are living through now? I'll wager you haven't.
More cocktails to come.....of the "M" varietal.
Unless they ban glass bottles I guess
Freedom requires getting out from under the jackboot of bankers and their credit money.
It doesn't matter how or why they got there, all that matters is getting away from it.
The choice is perpetual debt and subjugation or repudiation and freedom.
It won't be easy, but they have to pay a price for the freedom.
We are now where they were several years ago and we will face the same decision.
It will get worse over there, but it will be bad one way or the other..
Here's one look at the present situation:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/the-way-greeks-live-now.html?_r=3
"a Greek journalist named Aris Hadjigeorgiou was holding forth one day in late November about the calamitous state of his city and country as only a veteran metropolitan reporter could. He explicated the insidious ways in which the upper echelons of Greek media were intertwined with the political structure, which prevented reporting of financial mismanagement and also clouded any hope for resolving the crisis."
If things in America were like they are in Greece right now, there'd be so much blood in the streets you'd think it had been raining cherries. Whatever Bernanke and the boys have cooked up (conspirator-theorists, Rothschildes, etc, notwithstanding), had better be more than a wish-and-a-prayer, or it's gonna get pretty dangerous here, too. Iceland did the only thing they could sensibly do - 'sensibly' be the key word. Greece should tell the ECU, ' sorry guys, we're gonna start over and try & piece our country back together agains, so see ya' later.
They tried that same scare tactic on Iceland.
Hell? Yeah, the picnic that is current life would end.
Let me guess, if they default there would be tanks in the streets?
Just imagine how a gold standard will affect the socialists and then you will see fireworks.
speaking of light, he seemed to be speaking from the mens room of the Heathrow British Airways first class lounge.
There is a douche who say's the EUR is good... yeah you guessed who!
I remember traveling multiple countries in Europe when the Euro was on the drawing board. I remember my German associates telling me they thought this was a really bad idea. A year or so in those same folks were telling me how just the transition alone pushed gas & food prices through the roof in Germany. One gentleman who I visited with over a couple years at that point, said though it was good to be more united in Europe, the common currency was a very bad idea.....ok, he was right. America the EU is not.
1 out of 6 billion. Looks like im on the right side of the boat asshole
'Default, Decouple, Devalue' ... and Decontaminate, as the last Troika-crat leaves town.
Fuck devalue.
You dont get it. Abolish the minimum wage in Greece and the nanny state handouts. Earning less Euro's amounts to the same as devaluing without screwing the savers.
I don think you get it. How can they "Earn less euro"s" what the hell does that mean. Let me guess, just pay them less money for their labour.
"By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method, they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some." - Keynes
Feck...Keynes...he was a weirdo and a hapless economic romantic...
Yes, abolish the minimum so that they will be more competative in that region. BMW could open a plant there paying 3.50 Euro an hour or wherever the chips fall. Euopeans could vacation there with the people earning less per hour.
Let me guess, you make your living doing something with finance?
pods
It's a big paradigm shift. Your comment is no more than "the next cycle will come around" thinking, it represents a dying paradigm, one that's on its way out.
This ALL has to do with global decline. Look around you, do you really see that the Greeks could magically start spewing quality BMWs and that there would be sufficient market out there for them? And on TOP of this unlikelihood is that fact that they're massively in debt.
Germany is fucked. Greece is fucked. Why? Show me their physical/natural resources (esp energy). Checkmate!
They need to pay the national debt. Not happening in euros.
Andrew Mellon, is that you?
Pretty cool that Hell now has internet service!
The US is a nanny state...go fuck a dog elliot