This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

David Rosenberg On Taxation-Shock-Syndrome

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While nothing is more certain than death and taxes (and central bank largesse), David Rosenberg of Gluskin Sheff uncovers The Unlucky Seven major tax-related uncertainties facing households and businesses that will likely lead to multiple compression in markets (rather than the much-heralded multiple expansion 'story' which appears to have topped the talking-head charts - just above 'money on the sidelines' and 'wall of worry', as 'earnings-driven' arguments are failing on the back of this quarter). As he notes the radically changed taxation climate in 2013 and beyond will have an impact on all economic participants as they will probably opt to bolster their cash reserves in the second half of the year in preparation for the proverbial rainy day.

 

First, the top marginal personal tax rate rises to 39.6% from 35% as the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2012.

Second, a limit on itemized deductions will add a further 1.2 percentage points to the top rate.

Third, a new 0.9% Medicare tax on incomes over $200,000 gets imposed ($250,000 for joint filers).

Fourth, the top 15% rate on long-term capital gains rises to 20%.

Fifth, dividends will once again be taxed at ordinary rates — 39.6% for the top income earners.

Sixth, a new 3.8% tax on investment income gets introduced for incomes over $200,000 ($250.000 for joint filers).

Seventh, the top estate tax rate goes from 35% to 55% (60% in some cases). The estate tax exemption falls to $1 million from $5 million (the gift-tax exemption also drops to $1 million and the rate adjusts hither to 55%).

Forty-one separate tax provisions expire this year — see page 32 of the Economist. Of course, there is always the chance that after the November 6th election, a Congress that can never seem to allow anything temporary to meet its expiry date will pass an extension — for more on all this, see More Uncertainty for 2013 on page B9 of the Weekend WSJ.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:13 | 2183219 sabra1
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:41 | 2183433 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

All of these new taxes are going to kill the stock market and the economy along with it.

I presume that is the plan.  One way out is to buy gold (while you can!) and never sell it.  Hide it well.  Get some out of the country too.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 07:28 | 2184136 economics1996
economics1996's picture
"There is only one way to kill capitalism - by taxes, taxes, and more taxes" - Karl Marx

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrrIZ-kwVhg

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 10:40 | 2184615 Thomas
Thomas's picture

There's one in there that will cost me enormously.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 11:49 | 2184934 DosZap
DosZap's picture

sabra1

He Just set them, 44%,

He is dead set on driving all  investment capital out of this country.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:12 | 2183224 EndTheMedia
EndTheMedia's picture

The war on drugs. A new form of slavery. http://bit.ly/wOSZEO

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:45 | 2183442 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1  Excellent link.

I would have been curious to see the data all the way back to, say, 1974...  

LOL

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 09:36 | 2184312 Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

Amen,

Vs. +1, since we are on the religous section of the commandeered presidential campaign.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:13 | 2183228 navy62802
navy62802's picture

When the rainy day actually arrives, that cash will be worthless.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:16 | 2183231 ACP
ACP's picture

OOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooo..............................................

That means much, much, much MORE MONEY PRINTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And if you don't like it, Eric Holder will come to your house and take your spouse, your kids, your house, your car, your money and give you a swift kick in the BALLS!

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:58 | 2183487 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

That'll be the day!  Holder actually doing something, personally, taking responsibility for it?  No, stormtroopers will kick in your door and do all those things...as part of DOJ sponsored 'Operation Tightwad'.  Holder will not be able to recall authorizing or even hearing about Tightwad.  Strangely, no memos, emails or other evidence of Tightwad will be provided in response to congressional subpeonas - after all, these were just a few thousand rogue agents, doing their best to keep Americans (at least the Americans that matter) safe in a very dangerous world.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 06:02 | 2184096 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I remember that guy!  Obama's nominee for AG, right?  Didn't seem very bright...

What's he doing now?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 07:39 | 2184141 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

What he's always done --- in or out of "public service" --- taking care of his owners,              the TBTP(rosecute) Ganster Banksters.

"U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and Lanny Breuer, head of the Justice Department's criminal division, were partners for years at a Washington law firm that represented a Who's Who of big banks and other companies at the center of alleged foreclosure fraud, a Reuters inquiry shows."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/20/eric-holder-banks-lanny-breuer_n_1218452.html 

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:18 | 2183242 Death and Gravity
Death and Gravity's picture

The top rate increase could be much higher, if only they put it on UNEARNED INCOMES, like in the old days - where it specifically hit rent incomes, ie. from landed (and I suppose it could be extended to patent) privilege.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:19 | 2183245 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

The taxman cometh. Every dollar taken out of the economy by taxes is a dollar not spent to boost the economy.

No matter how high taxes are raised, tax revenues still remain in the 16%-18% of GDP range. So taxes are not

the solution to the deficit. Spending and waste need to be cut.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:31 | 2183263 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

That is true for the large majority of the population.  Not so much for the top .5% or so.   Yet they manage to pay virtually no taxes at all while holding most of the wealth.  Go figure.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 04:54 | 2184042 GernB
GernB's picture

The answer to the top .5% not paying any taxes is not to raise the marginal rate to 39% for those  that do. Many are S-corp owners and those taxes are taxes on money they make and could reinvest in their business, but Uncle Sam knows better how to invest that companies money. The company would squander it on hiring employees, bigger facilities and more equipment to increase revenue and add to the economy and increase the taxes they pay.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 08:57 | 2184221 economics1996
economics1996's picture

If you want a fair distribution of income end the Federal Reserve.  Inflation allows capital owners (the rich) to get the atvantage over workers.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:31 | 2183275 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Increasing taxes takes money out of the economy.

Decreasing spending takes money out of the economy.

It's all going to fall apart.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:50 | 2183460 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Lots of us believe the same.  Preparation is key.

Here's a Beginner's List:

-- gold & silver

-- guns & ammo

-- water and food (and ways to ensure supply of both)

-- medicine and first aid kit

-- residency in another country

-- useful skill sets

-- farmland, but not so much that property taxes kill you...

The list would go on forever...

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 01:06 | 2183508 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

I've been thinking lately that farmland may not be so important.  Most of it is owned by corporations.  I read as meaing that, should TSHTF in a truly big way, all that land is up for grabs.  So maybe figuring out where you're going to go and stake your claim to a few Monsanto acres is a good use of time.

What I really like about the thought is that a lot of small landowners now are those who have successfully raped the rest of us.  If land is up for grabs in some total collapse scenario, then the deserving will have the chance to get it, regardless of whether they are presently rapists or not.  Young people, who haven't had the chance to accumulate (steal) capital yet will be in there with a chance.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 03:24 | 2183724 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

You're a true genius! The entire class od landless people is having the exact same idea. Fight it out with them.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 06:34 | 2184113 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Do you know what Monsanto sprays on a lot of that land?

Do you know how long it takes for what they spray on that land to go away?

Do you know how long it takes to get something sustainable going on a piece of land?  I mean like, oh a big garden.  Or an orchard.

Do you know how to water stuff when it doesn't rain?

Do you know how to store what you grow in the summer over the winter?

I've been on 10 acres for 8 years, and I would say that just last year I started to get things going kind of OK.  It took a long time to learn what my land was good at, what I was good at, and how to handle the biggest problems.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 11:05 | 2184750 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

This is why "useful skill sets" should be #1 on the list...  if you are useful, you will not starve...  it's that simple.

Once you have the basics of wilderness survival down...  then you can move on to marksmanship, weapons training, and general combat...  then on to crafts, trades, etc.  Generally, most people learn some of each category as time goes on...

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 04:56 | 2184048 GernB
GernB's picture

Increasing taxes is a double wammy it takes money out of the economy but does not gain the benefits of private sector spending because the private sector tends to spend money on what is needed while governments tend to mis-allocate it for things that people do not need.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:45 | 2183305 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Yes. And let's not forget that the taxpayer funds this government criminal cartel and the fed. more and more it's looking like taxation without representation. tax only the banks and the corps and aide the economy and it's citizens.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:17 | 2183368 oldman
oldman's picture

Dear vast-dom.

 

You vote, you pay your taxes, and you live in most powerful and wealthiest nation on earth---and you have the RIGHT to whine about criminals and such------get behind this stone and help us push it up the hill---come on, put some weight into it!

You're lucky! I'm exiled to a southern shore because of sentiments such as yours.

By the way, have you given anything to our proxy, OCCUPY?

I have----i'm too cowardly to return and face the fascists

good luck to you with voting and paying taxes for death and destruction. I don't and can find little sympathy for those who do             track me down feds, if you can              om

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:46 | 2183446 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

I DO NOT VOTE. 

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 04:02 | 2183871 bpom
bpom's picture

If you do not vote, then you are part of the problem.  I suggest a tax and a fine for individuals that do not vote.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 05:01 | 2184060 oldman
oldman's picture

@bpom

"Yassuh, Yassuh, Yassuh----but Mr. Bossman---Mr. Bossman---I don't Has no money to pay no poll tax wid---I just won't be able vote, Mr, Bossman---Whatchall gonna do wid dis po nigga that can't fod to votre?  You ain'ta gonna trow'em in jail---is you, Mr , Bossman?"

I am not completely black nor white but a mixture, possibly, of red, black, and white---my brother and my daughter and I are still trying to get the black family to own up, but they won't talk about it.

But, you know what, dude? The fucking poll tax was outlawed before this oldman was born in most of the US--and you want to bring it back?

God help this country---what the fuck mis going on with you people?

Never mind---I'm sure it is probably just this oldman who is off the rail  

Please excuse the ring, bpom

 

 

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 07:27 | 2184135 bpom
bpom's picture

Why let your blood pressure go up, Oldman?  What is this about poll tax?  Why play a racist card so early in the dialogue?  I did not suggest that people pay to vote, I suggested a penalty for not voting.  Another point of discussion is providing a monetary payment and incentive after voting.  The payment could be a tax credit or maybe someone hands out $1 bills at the polls.  Implement a penalty for not voting and a reward for voting.  There should also be a system to check the accuracy of the vote count.  Letting a hackable, virus-infected black box spit out the voting totals is surely begging for corruption.    Make voting participation 100% and free of corruption.  A plutocratic minority would be unable to hold power.  So, Oldman, relax, cool your jets, chill out, hone your linguistic tools of fucking thought, and reflect on how to improve the situation.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 10:10 | 2184430 Offtheradar
Offtheradar's picture

Voting?  Are you fucking serious?  Please get smart already. 

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 10:40 | 2184617 Ex-Pat
Ex-Pat's picture

Why would anyone want to live in a democracy of non-voting cretins?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 10:54 | 2184699 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

Voting grants implied individual consent to the actions taken by those in power.  Non-participation in "the system" allows one to deny that they approve, on any level, actions taken by their government.

 

Choosing from the pre-approved Red/Blue team candidates allows the ruling elite to claim that they were democratically elected and have the consent of the governed.  Having the consent of the governed is incredibly important to maintaining the illusion of Democracy and moral superiority in the Anglosphere/New World Order.

 

Why do you think the FBI and others still profile people based on their voting record?  Being a voter shows you have faith in Democracy, and believe in "the system."  Non-participation is the only way to withdraw your consent.  Voting for 3rd party candidates just flags you in their systems, but is still a form of consenting to their rule.

 

If you vote then you are allowing the individuals eventually elected to office to claim that whatever action they take includes your consent as a voting person in the Democratic nation they rule.  Voting for "the other guy" does not grant you the right to claim that whatever the government does is not your fault.

 

This is the reason that there are constant drives to "get out the youth vote" in Western nations.  Many nations have national holidays, or require employers to allow employees to go and vote by law.  Non-participation on a large enough scale calls into question whether those in power truly have the consent of the governed.  The last act of desperation to maintain a claim to legitimate government is to make voting mandatory by law or non-participation a fineable/taxable offense.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:58 | 2185462 DosZap
DosZap's picture

AndTheRest

IF you do not VOTE HOW do you expect ANY change?, example RON PAUL?

IF he is to have a chance you must VOTE.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 11:39 | 2189082 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

I'll cast my vote for Ron Paul, and by doing so I will be granting defacto consent to whatever Obama does in his second term at the behest of his masters.  Attacks on the second amendment?  Check.  Using tactical nukes against Iran?  Check.  Assassinating American citizens?  Check.

 

That's why a month after I cast my vote, I will no longer be in the United States.  And I won't be back.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:52 | 2183470 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Dear oldman:

WOW, you took the big step, good for you.  Be careful about coming back if things get ANY WORSE!

DCRB

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 02:48 | 2183658 oldman
oldman's picture

Do Chen

Not a very big step for a guy who wouldn't work, wouldn't be a consumer, and knew how to fill out his taxes ans wasn;t afraid of his government

It was easy except for culture-shock which I still bump into after 20 years

I come and go------US Canada France Turkey Iceland

All that 'list' stuff is bullshit------there's so many lists there is no way they can keep up with you unless you have a cell which I don't nor do I travel with a computer

I'm tired of war, my friend and that is all my countrymen want

With all of the problems and rants about them here at ZH----a paragraph about our going to war turns the pack on its heels as it always has and off they go ready to kick some smaller country around. Never the Soviet Union, China, North Korea--------------Do you think the US would threaten Iran if Iran had a single nuke?

Think about it       om

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:11 | 2185242 DosZap
DosZap's picture

vast-dom

And let's not forget that the taxpayer funds this government criminal cartel and the fed.

Not anymore, the Fed and the POTUS are funding the show, w/out ANY of our input.

The taxes they  have recieved from us pays nothing execpt interest on what Bernie has spent already.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:19 | 2183246 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

So you have a mortgage free home, a few paid of cars, a boat, and a life insurance policy and there is your "million dollar estate"..........all shit that was bought with whatever the thieving scumbag cocksuckers so graciously let me keep from my hard earned pay. This shit pisses me off.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:39 | 2183293 bogey4
bogey4's picture

Actually, the proceeds of the life insurance policy are tax free to your heirs. 

And there's very little doubt that the estate tax limit will stay where it is - you can relax.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:45 | 2183306 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

+1

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:53 | 2183473 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ another 1

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 01:50 | 2183581 oldman
oldman's picture

Luna,

Freedom is not FREE----some brave souls pay for it with their lives, but

you do have FREEDOM OF SPEECH

and all of us at ZH to keep you company          It wasn't like that when 'LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!' was in vogue

no one would even listen without calling you a commie or a fag or a nigger or a woman    

you remember those days don't you?  they used to come out of the mouths of some of the same redncks on this wonderful blog          I'm certain that I must have met some of you              om

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 02:16 | 2183621 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

you do have FREEDOM OF SPEECH

And you use a pseudonym.

Sure, freedom of speech.  ...Just watch what you say.

 

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 02:59 | 2183644 oldman
oldman's picture

LOW PROFILE.

You seem very familiar

You wouldn't turn me in, wouldya'

I watch very carefully what I say

But, I am not a shit eater. dude

and 'oldman' is not a pseudonym(had trouble spelling that one)

That is what they call me here         om

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 09:29 | 2184283 ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

As long as the locals can tax your property, do you ever really "own" it?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:19 | 2183249 booboo
booboo's picture

but he still keeps the wife and kids? Man, let me think that over. 

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:23 | 2183254 ACP
ACP's picture

+1

Nice one, Al Bundy.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:24 | 2183259 Asher88
Asher88's picture

Should we be/act surprised that our "government" wants to continue and expand on punishing successful and responsible people? I mean really, what is the incentive for me to work harder and make more money when I can accomplish the same payback by working less and getting more tax credits? It's not my fault that those 'evil speculators' are trying to take advantage of me!!!! (sarcasm intended)

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:25 | 2183260 pavman
pavman's picture

Ron Paul 2012?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:28 | 2183264 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Well, look, people.

We had an absolute political earthquake in 2010 when the Tea Party completely reversed what had been an overwhelming Democrat majority, who had done nothing but EXPAND the deficit.  The earthquake created an overhwhelming GOP majority and did so on the basis of the single issue they ran on -- cut spending.  Reduce the deficit.  Attack the debt.

They Have Done Nothing.

If that event, if that earthquake, could not address the insanity, nothing ever will.  These parties DARE NOT let ANYTHING happen that is GDP contractive.  Tax increases are contraction.  Rosenburg is on this like white on rice  Spending cuts are contractive too, and this feeds the insanity.

THEY WILL NEVER DO ANYTHING.  

This shit is going to disintegrate.  Picture Greece riots in a country with more guns than people.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:41 | 2183296 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Both parties have done nothing but EXPAND the deficit since Reagan took office.  Obama ran on ending wars and reversing the police state.  The Tea Party ran on small government and lower taxes.  Notice a pattern?   The Red Team/Blue Team dichotomy is nothing more than theater.   Oligarchs run the show and they want us to fight with each other over whether teachers should have pensions while they summer in Monaco.  

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:49 | 2183312 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

If there's no money, there are no pensions.

There are no private pensions.  Why should teachers have them?

Jack taxes; smash GDP.

Cut spending; smash GDP.

It's all going to disintegrate.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:55 | 2183327 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

There's a LOT of money.  Ask the oligarchs who have redistributed literally trillions from us into their pockets.  The idea that the average person in this country can never retire unless he/she is part of the wealthy elite is absurd and goes to show how effective the MSM propaganda has been in destroying our middle class.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:57 | 2183482 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1 to both of you in this subthread.

But, you will NEVER get the Oligarchs' money.

 

Cutting spending was/is the only sane way out.  But, it's not going to happen.  I think this has an ugly end.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 02:33 | 2183646 piceridu
piceridu's picture

+1

"No government has ever commanded the resources at the disposal of our ungodly Leviathan, which consumes about 25% of the product of the world's richest country. It is driven by a voracious alliance of government's own employees, and those who receive benefits from the state. At least 90 million Americans either depend directly on government handouts or jobs, and each private worker must support not only himself and his family, but also carry a government worker on his shoulders."

-Tom Bethel, "Freedom and its Enemies," June 1999.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:06 | 2185227 DosZap
DosZap's picture

LetThemEatRand

The Tea Party ran on small government and lower taxes.

Dude get your head out of rectal defilade.

The Tea Party is in control of NOTHING.

They only got a HANDFUL of people in there.

Until the Senate is under control of the GOP, no promises can be kept.

The Dems are STILL running the show, and the Ex Branch + FED is doing whatever the hell it wants.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 12:12 | 2185020 DosZap
DosZap's picture

CrashisOptimistic

They Have Done Nothing.

HOW can they do anything, they have no Majority in the Senate, and Bernie & BamBam, are spending like wildmen, Unless COngress thake BACK the right to control the value, and set our mony standards, AND set the spending limits.'( they MUST take the Fed's control over monetary policy AWAY from them.)

Nothing will ever change.

And until the SHEEPLE demand it, dont look for it to happen.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:33 | 2183281 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

and if everyone just didnt go along with the tax program ?????

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:35 | 2183285 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

sure looks like you better stop working until the next year when you hit $249,000

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:40 | 2183297 bogey4
bogey4's picture

you know that tax rates are marginal, right?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:07 | 2183356 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

yeah you are right, no sense at working at all

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:40 | 2183294 AU5K
AU5K's picture

It only stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.  -AR

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:49 | 2183315 lailapa
lailapa's picture

World War III - The First Private War in History

Those who won all battles shall lose the war.

Bilderberg Group and the crimes against humanity.

This is how things work in all countries. Whatever used to belong to their peoples, today it belongs to the multinational companies of the Club. Peoples were betrayed by their given leaderships and they lost everything. Capitals and markets were handed to the Club bosses. If you understand what is going on in Greece, you can understand what is going on in Britain, France, and Germany etc..

http://eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2012/02/world-war-iii.html

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:51 | 2183320 HD
HD's picture

If history is any guide - the uber rich are going to get everything they don't want in the coming years. Smaller gains, higher taxes, increased social programs, more powerful labor unions, possibly even universal health care.

Ridiculous?  Take a good look at what happened to society in the 20 years after the last great crash. And I'm not a partisan - but look who won the white house and who held congress from the early 30s to the early 50s.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 01:01 | 2183490 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1  Good observation.  But, there were a lot of deductions that meant that few paid the amounts that the very high rates would lead you to expect.

If we get these large tax hikes, there will be less incentive to invest...  

I will not "invest", I will save in gold.  And I won't sell it.  Maybe GIVE it away at the right time.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 01:13 | 2183522 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

....What???.....homework.

The purpose of this MB is to make your point.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 23:52 | 2183321 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Taxes drive the market underground and tax revenues continue to fall-

Cash and barter become king-

People-in the eyes of a greedy broken government are seen as tax cheats-when in fact they are simply using the new market that clueless governments have inadvertently created-

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:05 | 2183343 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Without 0-tax increases and 0-interest rates + money printing the economy will spiral down. That's deflation.

With 0-tax increases and 0-interest rates + money printing the price of necessities will spiral up. That's inflation. 

Solution? 

If you said 0-tax increases and 0-interest rates + money printing you win a trip for 2 to Detroit with a house. 

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:56 | 2183471 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Without 0-tax increases and 0-interest rates + money printing the economy will spiral down. That's deflation.

With 0-tax increases and 0-interest rates + money printing the price of necessities will spiral up. That's inflation.

**********

Taxes and interest rates have nothing to do with inflation or deflation properly defined-

They can both drive inflation or deflation because they have either an inflationary or deflationary force on the market-

Printing money is inflation-expanding credit is inflation-

If credit contracts more than money expands  it is deflation-(money/cash cannot contract)

Some prices go up and some go down in either inflation or deflation-but sooner or later-affordability will dictate price direction-

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:13 | 2183370 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

It is an intentional attack on the most productive in our society. People making 250,00 yr are a major component in a healthy and vibrant society. These are the shakers and makers, creating wealth for more. These are not the .5% that are evil and they aren't the enemy. If you can't see that this is an assault on all of us, you are part of the problem. College or other means have taught you to believe the lie, and you are working to the benefit of the gansters in charge. Their goal is designed to destroy the individual, collectivly making us all serfs,with them naturally being in charge.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 04:13 | 2183908 Ex-Pat
Ex-Pat's picture

What is this word called working?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:40 | 2183430 non_anon
non_anon's picture

why did the peasants revolt in 1381 against Richard II?

bonus, who lost their head?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:55 | 2183478 Cone of Uncertainty
Cone of Uncertainty's picture

Are we at defcon 5 yet?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:56 | 2183479 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

if the goobermint collects more in taxes, it will need less debt

these are not, generally, regressive taxes

please spare us the keynesian 'lessons' (not tyler & rosie~~they didn't go there) about what will happen to the "economy" and blahblah

if that stuff is true, then how did we get here?  really!  if the "authority figures" and "economists" whom people are quoting and parroting knew wtf they were talking about, how the FUK did we end up here?

i didn't go to theEconomist or wsj pages and sections referenced in the article, so i don't know if they addressed what slewie is gonna goto next

but i kinda doubt it...

listen:  if we have a ZIRP FED policy, and you're lucky to beat inflation investing unless you take "risks" beyond a CF"Planner"'s paygrade, and you're lucky to make diddley-squat+ which in slewienomics is equivalent to hoping to get even before your bus leaves the casino, then the cost of paying taxes ain't as great as when you can make 10% falling outa the top bunk,  IS IT??

furthermore, if corporations, which take our money, give it to politicians, control the legislatures, state houses, congress and theExecutive, write incomprehensible laws that the mofos we elected don't even read before they vote, AND DON'T PAY TAXES, have got you all convinced that if they paid taxes, you would no longer have~~ a job?  a house?  a car?  a retirement?  teeth?  a colonoscopy?  sex?~~ well, in slewienomincs that is what we call a "personal problem"

i mean, if you're that fuking styoooopid, maybe that's really why & how we got here, today

<...continue to talk among yerselves...>

we need less gooberment, less ditto control, and less ditto debt

and corporations are robots, not persons!

we don't need no stinking 'programs' for clunkers and first-time shoe-tyers and 60++ fuking different state, territorial and national park quarters, and 6 new penny designs

what?  give these morons another X $ Tril and "hope" they come up with something which "works"?  NO NO NO!

and gold and silver US coinage is money and should never be taxed

if those fuktard banksterz can't live without 'legal tender laws' that's one thing;  taxing constitutional money?  eat shit.  lay eggs,  and die young!

case closed, BiCheZ!

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 01:04 | 2183501 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Excellent rant!  I am pleased to have given you the first of many green ups tonight!

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 01:43 | 2183574 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

it was fun!

and thxz, Do_Chen_Bear_!

this is a big problem and we're all in it, together.  so far

thePeople have not gone ape-shit.  yet

for me, violence isn't gonna make this easier to get thru, no matter how we pair off and embrace for the parties and dances.  it just isn't

the political track and the corporate track are part of the human track;  or rather, the human path includes parts of them;  not all of them;  we have to be more careful

and, globally, we need to get back on the human track

i reacall first coming across this idea while listening to leonRussel in 1971...  Hahaha!

corporate culture is very powerful;  so is goobermint;   not to me, tho i imagine you spend a fair amount of time interfacing with that shit.  but it isn't your career.  your career is on the deck of your own ship with your own people, most of whom must surely suspect you are insane, just for trying, at this point

L0L!!! 

as drFaust might put it:  i can save the economy if you promise me something of your humanity

gotta love the underdogs here!

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 02:55 | 2183664 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Raise anchor and hoist the mizenmast!

"...get back on the human track."

I'll raise a hearty flask of grog to that me bucko!

So many humans being pirates and pirates being humans.

Who says the world isn't flat and you can't sail upside down?!

 

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 02:22 | 2183628 oldman
oldman's picture

That was great, Slewie; thanks!!!

Who is going to pay for that next trillion dollars worth of bonds?

Somebody is going to have to pay taxes and I'll kick in when the corporations are taxed as individuals are an amount equal to the percentage of the fed tax receipts paid by CORPORATE AMERICA.

I want to be a part of that!                              om

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 03:51 | 2183813 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

well, part of that you shall BE!!!

at the very least, we need to question our own "responses" to "money & economics" b/c  the emperor is naked and has a very small dick, too!

the conditioning is to die for!

so, we need to question the "stimulus" and how fuking hard is that w/ the FED and l0rdKeynes13.0?

and think in new categories

the stuff we're getting from the political and corporate aspects of our culture is very tought to sort thru and see how to fight

i am now reading stuff by nannies who seem to want to "institutionalize" #0WS

however, you put this out here: Who is going to pay for that next trillion dollars worth of bonds?

tyler sez:  That the Fed is now actively monetizing US debt is beyond dispute;  i first linked to another writer's development of this "stealth" QE long ago (if, indeed, that is what tyler is talking of, here).  but, if it's "stealth" it's pretty hard to prove

there are some "semantics" involved, i hear, and i'll admit that with the age-old power of the USTreasury, semantics ain't gonna help me past the fact that all i know is what is on the FED's balance sheet, except for 'forensics', of course...  so, i really don't know much...  i know that...

this is the thing about this particular parabolic part of the debt-creation curve, isn't it?  can't generate the "growth" to feed the beast (too much 'debt'?)

according to dougNoland [A New Bull Market?] (paste): 

Global central bank "international reserve assets" (excluding gold) - as tallied by Bloomberg – were up $958bn y-o-y, or 10.3% to $10.250 TN.  Over two years, reserves were $2.435 TN higher, for 31% growth.

M2 (narrow) "money" supply declined $7.4bn to $9.772 TN.  "Narrow money" expanded 10.0% from a year ago. 

(end paste, my emph) i have no idea what this means!  i think it means that there's not enuf money in the world to finance this hoooey w/out monetizing or paying somebody a bit more than zer0IRP+ the vig. 

can't generate the "growth" + can't generate the "money" = Ctrl+P

but, we shall see how the sign along the trail looks, if we can see any, and continue to cry "bullshit!" whenever a fuking bankster utters one single word, at this point

the americanPeople are standing behind every cent these mofos steal, om.  like the greeks, we'll have our times of reckoning w/ the fuking banksters and their zombie fucking TBTF "corporate robots", too!  maybe christineL will send a troika so the nannies will know what to  do to successfully assfuk america to bail out the BK+TBTFs, that day, too! [so they can continue to finance the "state" they "own" and bleed it dry]  or maybe hankyPanky will do a curtain call.  i kinda doubt he'd take the stage for that, tho.  he's had enuf public life, we would hope!

don't tell the world the WeThePeople are paying the tranches on all this fanny&fdreddie&sallie&PALie worthless toilet paper...

...and borrowing the money to do so...  and you know why it is we just don't say:  N0  N0  N0 MAS? huh?

because we are so totally brainwashed, that the sun won't 'rise', tomorrow, if we protect ourselves! 

...or something...

when people begin to realize we need to decide NOW whether we are gonna become either iceland or greece when drFaustus gets his bill b/c, well, i think that's his devilish old creditor turning up the walk now

he always looks great, too, doesn't he?

 

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 04:41 | 2184015 oldman
oldman's picture

Slewie, Thanks, 'bro

We have just wasted nearly two years in tremendous energy over Europe and Greece just to avoid dealing with our own problem of debt that can never be paid. The propaganda campaign has dameged beyond any hope of repair 60 years of banking and financial reletions we could have had from Europe. We made it clear to our ONLY allies that we will throw them to the wolves in a New York Minute(a favorite Eagles jingle of mine!)

WE sucked up every available investment dollar for sovereign debt on the planet and still the fed had monetize a good portion of that. There was no money for EUROPE, let alone lil' ol' Greece. The Chinese are tired of Hilary's bull shit and, anyway, have their own bubble problems and a population that is not passive; these are tough people.

Queenie has to keep fish 'n chips on the table for the brits or the family jewells will go to the highest bidder as soon as they are stolen.

The Russians have been insulted and pushed around since the USSR folded by the US and NATO, so they are not too sympathetic to anglolandia or the rest of Europe.

I won't go further down the list---it is the same story---we have no friends and the old ' I like americans, but your governmennt-----' doesn't play anymore; no one likes our government or us---we are seen as a threat or source of funds by the whole world(Jimmy Carter gave a speech at the 2004 Dem Convention on precisely this topic that was ignored by all).

Anyway, there is no money. So the US is going to fail. We are not capable of resolving our petty political disputes or ideological positions or social conditioning whatsoever. You see 'em tonight raving on about the iranians and kicking ass, killing the all, and staeling the oil with death and destruction in yet another nation that could be at least a business associate when we need oil(which we never have, btw)

The american people DO NOT have the capacity to pay this debt----it is odious debt, but then you have to go into the streets as the Greeks did and the Spanish and Basques do every week in order to show you are against any of the debt being paid to the banks---fucking Goldman is not acting as pricipal, for Christ's sake, it is a mere broker!

I,m sorry, Slewie, to say this about my own people, but they are no longer survivors----the US is going to get the bill before it leaves the table and it has no possibility of paying; it's only possibility will be to kill the owner and burn down the resturaunt, claiming the owner tried to poison us.

We are not Iceland nor Greece---we are not of that quality and courage to go into the streets nor can we even begin to pay the bill. The whole deal was the Ponzi---roll the cash flow---we don't need no stinking profits, just corporate america and its banks. This is what we do not understand---it is us not 'them'.

Thanks for the inspiration and opportunity to vent some of this rage I have from all the fucking was talk here        om

 

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 15:02 | 2185744 Seer
Seer's picture

May be a bit late to this party (thanks you guys for your contributions, always appreciate them)...

I think we're missing that people generally don't like admitting that they've been fooled.  Spent plenty of time seeing this with the pro-war supporters (they'd prefer to chew on the Big Lie rather than admit they'd been conned).

Look around, we're living in/amongst all that hyper-growth that TPTB triggered.  It was all one big program that went out of control.  By way of fact that we had not previously risen and knocked this thing down means that we've got blood on our hands.

The other Big Lie is that if we accept that we've been lied to (even by OURSELVES) that the "alternate" is to accept being a "doomer," that we'll have to resort to primitivism.  We don't want That, so we keep swallowing the Big Lie... until, until we choke on it (which is what we're starting to do).  Mother Nature has always said that primitivism is what's sustainable, like this or not, that's the REAL reality.

I'm a messenger.  The choice is there: live unsustainably (and go out in spectacular fashion), or live sustainably (no fashion, no glamor, lots of humbleness).

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 21:12 | 2187314 oldman
oldman's picture

SEER,

Agreed. Still, we will have to learn a little humility and how to cooperate with the rast of the world. Life is so easy and there is so much to share that I cannot comprehend killing or destroying any of what we have.

It simply doesn't compute for this old man       thanks for your insight   om

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 01:06 | 2183507 adr
adr's picture

At this point I could care less about investors, heirs, estates, or capital gains. The system is set up to punish productive workers and reward unproductive "investors". Placing speculative bets on an electronic representation of a slip of paper does nothing to bolster the real economy.

During the last period of inflation, wages rose to balance out the increase in basic living costs. That was because we still produced the bulk of what we bought. Inflated profits were eventually paid out as inflated wages. Not this time.

The rise of public corporation dominance in the 1980s, accelerated in the 90s, destroyed real wage appreciation and set up our current inflationary cost period with deflating incomes. 1970's stagflation is preferable to Weimar style hyperinflation. Soon income lower than $100k a year will not be sufficient to support a small middle class family.

Raise the personal capital gains tax to 80%. It won't affect 95% of the population. Fuckers like Zuckerberg will still be billionaires. Most analysts claim he won't even use his fortune, he'll just give it away. Other billionaires spending fortunes on aid to Africa and other worthless causes are siphoning off what used to provide an average middle class life for millions of Americans.

Screwing the heirs of today's fortunes is fine with me. After going to college with some of them, they deserve it. If they inherited the ability to produce anything of real value, let them remake the fortune. Fortune by birthright has brought nothing but misery for thousands of years.

The stock market is the enemy, it needs to go. Perhaps after the current system collapses it can be replaced with a market held to an ethical standard, complete with rules to prevent the gaming of the system to produce billionares from unproductive stock. Perhaps without a system to game, more honest people will run for office.

At least it's a dream.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 11:40 | 2184893 Chump
Chump's picture

Wtf??  You would kill the patient with your treatment.

You don't have to "bolster the real economy" to have the freedom to do as you please.  Placing speculative bets is not evil; bailing out those who lose is.  Spending your fortune on aid to whoever-the-hell-you-want isn't evil; stealing from everyone to give to some other faceless beneficiaries is.  I'd rather have one worthless leech who inherits a fortune than have a government agent take that fortune at the end of a gun and divide it among 500 other worthless leeches.

If you accumulate a fortune throughout your life, you have the absolute right to dispose of it as you see fit, whether that means giving it to an African village or letting your bloated playboy son destroy it.

How about we stop using a shitty, meddlesome government to fix the problems it creates.  That means you might have to earn your own living, whether you're an investment banker or shoe-shine boy.

Oh and fractional reserve lending is punishable by death.  No more bailouts for anyone; survive on your own.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 01:10 | 2183516 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Funny, I agree with all these taxes. (I don't know about the estate tax. If that means those moneys would be getting taxed twice, then I'm against it.)

We also need to re-instate the full SS tax. Saying "that's going to hurt the economy" is BS. These tax breaks for the rich (the job creators) HASN'T created any jobs. AND we need to eliminate the "cap" on Soc. Sec. tax. Keep that SS tax on ALL income, no $108K cutoff (or whatever it is).

 Now we need to create a similar degree of pain in the "spending" department. We call for austerity in other parts of the globe, but see no need for it here at home. If we allow increased taxes on those "evil" rich people, then we need to cut funding for those "lazy" poor people. How bout requiring more to receive a lifetime SS Disability check than a note from your doctor saying you're disabled??? Let's check bank acct. statements, annual visits to Dr. to re-evaluate, check doctors for number of SSD claims for pt's. Holding Dr's responsible for their pt's fraud. As it is, the Dr. has NOTHING to lose by agreeing to declare a pt. disabled. MORE documentation, in general, on people receiving ANY govt. benefits. And before we hear another Soc. Sec. "out of money" story, have the govt. REPAY the $3.5 TRILLION they owe the fund. THEN we'll see how "insolvent" SS is!

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 04:43 | 2184017 Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

So true.

Doctors are so afraid of losing patients that if a patient wants a disability check then staff gladly fill out all the paperwork the patient brings in.

If a doctor disagreed with a patient and said they were not disabled that patient would go elsewhere.

We have a surplus of doctors, so the bad ones have to pass out xanax and hydros and support each and every disability claim, or they wont have much of an income.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:51 | 2185433 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Hugo Chavez

Dude you have NO clue.We do not have enough Doctors period.

And the Dr's signing off on a Disability means very little........a gub panel decides that.

We are facing a crsis of care in this country and Dr's are thinking of GETTING out of the Profession period.We in fact have a shortage.And with the NEW policies in effect.....................GOOD luck getting someone to spend over 500k to get their license to practice, because they will be limited to what they can make(try paying back that WAD), plus malpractice Insurance is eating 25% of their incomes.

When I need to get a physical, I have to plan it a year nearly on advance, thats how many patients my Internist has.He is so busy, he cannot /will not return a phone call.

( and I am not on Medicare!!!!!!)

Where is this SURPLUS of Dr's?. Many will not accept NEW patients.

Lawyers, yeap.............totally different animal,they are a HUGE part of the problem, not the solution.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 15:09 | 2185779 Seer
Seer's picture

"Lawyers, yeap.............totally different animal,they are a HUGE part of the problem, not the solution."

Just wait until some sub-50%-er doctor and associates fuck up really bad on YOUR visit.  Or, when one of the industry's prized pharma products fucks you up.

I have no love loss for lawyers, but they're no different than speculators that offset runaway bets on the "other side."

Anyway... the REAL issue is the fucked up FOOD system!  That and all the externalizing of environmental costs.

Learn to hack at the trunk rather than the branches...

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 01:19 | 2183538 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"Taxes serve two main purposes in the economy: 

1. Creating demand for currency. The government accepts its currency, and only its currency, as payment for taxes owed. People must hold currency to pay taxes or they are faced with penalties, including prison.

2. Regulating inflation. Inflation occurs when aggregate demand exceeds the productive capacity of the economy. Taxes reduce the amount of money in the hands of the private sector, and thus reduce demand.

 Countries that control their own currencies do not need to tax in order to spend. Such countries can always issue currency to purchase any good or service for sale in the economy. Taxes do not fund the government."

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2012/02/modern-monetary-theory-...

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 01:46 | 2183575 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

2. Regulating inflation. Inflation occurs when aggregate demand exceeds the productive capacity of the economy.

**********

That sounds backwards-

It's when inflation occurs first via easy credit-that causes more paper to chase a limited supply of productive capacity which creates price bubbles in assets-such as we've seen in real-estate-

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 02:48 | 2183660 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I am cashing out of the system as much as possible.

Why would I leave anything "on the table" for the FEDS or IRS or Wall Street to STEAL?

Why?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 03:12 | 2183700 sikefeier0728
sikefeier0728's picture

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/ christian louboutin

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/ red bottom Shoes

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/ red sole shoes

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/ red sole heels

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/ red bottom pumps

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/ cheap red bottom pumps

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/ red bottom heels

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/ cheap red sole shoes

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/ cheap red bottom shoes

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/Christian-Louboutin-Daffodile-160mm-Aurora-Boreale-cxv-239.html christian louboutin daffodile 160 in strass

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/Christian-Louboutin-Daffodile-160-Suede-Pumps-Purple-cxv-150.html cheap 160 daffodile pumps

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/Christian-Louboutin-Decollete-100-mm-Pumps-Black-cxv-12.html christian louboutin decollete

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/Christian-Louboutin-Louis-Silver-Spikes-Men-s-Sneakers-Black-Patent-Leather-cxv-328.html louboutin spiked sneakers

http://www.cheapredbottomheels.com/Christian-Louboutin-Toutenkaboucle-150mm-Buckle-Sandals-Beige-cxv-300.html Christian Louboutin Toutenkaboucle

http://www.cheapredbottomheels.com/Christian-Louboutin-Change-Of-The-Guard-150-Sandals-Mint-cxv-241.html Louboutin Change Of The Guard 150

http://www.cheapredbottomheels.com/Christian-Louboutin-Maggie-140mm-Glitter-Watersnake-Pumps-Nude-Gold-cxv-675.html christian louboutin maggie pumps

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/Christian-Louboutin-Volpi-150mm-Sandals-Emeraude-cxv-749.html christian louboutin volpi 150

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/Christian-Louboutin-Hyper-Prive-120mm-Glitter-Pumps-Golden-cxv-526.html Christian Louboutin Hyper Prive

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/Christian-Louboutin-Ron-Ron-100-Patent-Leather-Pumps-Nude-cxv-709.html christian louboutin ron ron pumps

http://www.cheapredsoleshoes.org/Christian-Louboutin-Sex-120mm-Patent-Leather-Pumps-Nude-cxv-507.html Christian Louboutin Sex 120

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 04:35 | 2183987 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

11 weeks

1 hour

this site has an ethos of >+anonymity+<  b/c of the political speech involved and the freedom and liberty needed to chat frankly and insultingly among ourselves

as you indulge in the wonderz of zH, you will b/c more and more aware of the 10,000 subtle ways that zH is used by trolls to "innocently" phish for y-o-u!

i am seeing, in my "google" ads along the margins, about 30% more ads offering freebies if i just click and...register...

i imagine the "webmasters0fTheUniverse" have a pretty good database about people here

this isn't faceFuk or puffHo

but it is a personal trip, and i will own being on the extreme fringe even here, about how seriously i take the "innocent" identity-trolling [so we can do bidness and grow the economy?]  this place/site isn't any different than any other gin-joint along the cosmic funway, in some respects

so be careful what you "recommend" and how you "advise others to get their silver and gold"

what databases are you "innocently" steering fellow sheep toward? 

some people would say:  clinical paranoia!

and i would tell the ignorant fuktards:  be very careful mixing your "privacy policy" public record self-entry with your political speech, especially if you are serious about being here around that reason

pretty crazy, huh?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 03:33 | 2183764 Ungaro
Ungaro's picture

.gov must operate within its means, i.e.: taxes collected.

The answer is not to raise taxes but to dramatically reduce the size (and cost) of .gov to the point that even a recessionary economy covers its costs. During expansionary periods, it needs to build up reserves.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 09:12 | 2183891 bpom
bpom's picture

As obese, physically unfit, dim-witted, fat-headed economists go, David Rosenberg appears to have less poundage than Evangelos Venizelos.  Re the expiration of Bush's tax cuts, at least the government will begin to receive again some much needed revenue.  The justification for Bush's tax cuts were as duplicitous as his justification for Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 05:20 | 2184076 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

The funny thing is that Tax Increases are needed to pay for PAST Spending at the same time as FUTURE Spending goes down dramatically

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 07:10 | 2184126 egoist
egoist's picture

I'm this close to just stopping and parking myself under a bridge, having been mowing through my 2011 taxes. In other words, as things now stand, I really don't see the point in working my ass off, in investing, in stocking nuts away... It's all just enabling them.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 15:17 | 2185809 Seer
Seer's picture

Wasn't it lyrics from one of Bob Dylan's songs that said "gotta serve someone?"

Pick who you are working for.

Running in the wheel almost never directly serves those who you really care for/about.  That's the illusion we're served up.

It's all about "transactions."  This hyper-con really got traction during the Reagan era: the chains were taken from the "transaction" fee channels; banks have been making more and more money off of these things since then.  Fascism, both govt and business making a raking on each and every "transaction:" wonder if old Ronnie ever say this coming?

They've got their off-books.   We've got the Black Market.  Black Power, bitchez!

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 08:03 | 2184161 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

posters like sandman seem to be able to read but not comprehend..raise taxes to pay the states debt ..while lowering spending by gov.  I would like to ask all who think this is remotely correct the following: Who ran up the debt and to whom is it paid??

The Fed and TBTF should be paid for the fake (fiat) money lent to our fed gov and then given back to the TBTF and the co's they control as profits? 

I think that is just what those criminal elite reptiles want us to do.. cut the fed gov yes, pay back a dime to corzineian reptile elite..never..a one eyed man in the land of the blind.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 08:18 | 2184175 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Oh I can read and comprehend very well. Whoever ran up the Debt they way this game is played TAXPAYERS get to pay MORE to cover the EXISTING DEBT but get less Spending for their taxes in FUTURE. You might want to spout out the kind of childish bile about "criminal elite reptiles" but you won't do anything but sound off on blogs.

The Greeks are being screwed in their FUTURE to pay off firms like Goldman, SocGen, Deutsche Bank underwritten by TAXPAYERS. The same way US Taxpayers will serve up TARP after TARP to fund these "criminal elite reptiles".

 

So I can read and comprehend very very well......you see the second biggest item of US Government Spending is DEFENCE at $698 billion = 43% Global Defence Spending. That is how much it costs to keep the US economy functioning; that is how George Bush kept the stimulus going after 9/11. That's just $2 billion short of the $700 billion TARP Package Paulson got through the US Congress as another stimulus package.

 

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

So you overmedicatedun... will have to start thinking of how you control Spending when Tax Revenues haven't covered it since 2001

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 08:59 | 2184225 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

sandman, we all know fed gov over spends. but the policy of gov to overspend is promoted -maybe ordered by the TBTF.. they get paid back for this criminal captured gov? my point to make it clear for you..is this debt is a result of criminal captured gov..the debt is not legit. it should be nullified. I am for much smaller gov at all levels, but with the criminal debt still treated as a legal obligation, there is no solution but to print and borrow.

again this debt is created to keep the elites wealth- lets not forget that.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 09:44 | 2184342 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

We agree. The System has been captured by Corrupt Elites that use the Instruments of State Power to entrench themselves through control of the Legislature and the Treasury. We are in agreement.

The problem is that ALL political systems end up this way - Republics and Monarchies. - which is why the Patricians of the past did not want Ochlocracy or Rule of the Mob which is fancifully called "Democracy" but is little more than Group Rights trumping Individual Liberty so we get the John Galt Situation.

Political Theory and Philosophy is full of this - it is just bizarre that Mass Media World has pandered to it to keep the Politico-Media Elites in power until they have debased the whole process. I am not sure whether guillotine or firing squad is the only way left to purge, but purge there must be. Greece shows us the Future of The West

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 09:54 | 2184373 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Argentina has already showed the West what's in store but nobody cared because the Tech scene was ballooning. Greece is only proof that it has now spread to larger 'Unions'. It shall engulf all and there is No Exit.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 15:25 | 2185865 Seer
Seer's picture

"The problem is that ALL political systems end up this way"

Go forth and multiply!  Never having been given the warning that this growth would eventually stop, That's the problem!

When you've got a Ponzi going there will always be those who join; as a matter of fact, nearly everyone is enticed to jump in lest they end up being one of the "last" ones, end up being one of the "poor."  That's the trick, carrot and stick... and one day neither the carrot or stick will be found; the question will come to this: will it be because we've removed them out of our own hands (recognizing that empowering anyone/anything other than ourselves just creates this mess), OR, will it be because they can no longer be found, the earth won't be able to generate them (environment too fucked up)?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 10:00 | 2184393 casey13
casey13's picture

The end of 2012. That is so far in the future. Today we dance.

Rosenberg is basing his premise of higher taxes on Obama being reelected. A 50% probability.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 10:58 | 2184713 Chump
Chump's picture

At any given moment, depending on the whim of any given "authority," you are not fully adhering to U.S. tax law or IRS regulations and guidelines.  That is the point.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!