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The Greek €107 Billion Contingent Liability Gorilla Exposed
From Mark Grant, as a follow up The Eight Hundred Pound Greek Gorilla Enters The Room
THE 800 POUND GREEK GORILLA (EXPOSED)
When we have been given the data on Greek sovereign debt it appears we have been misled. I have added up now the ISDA debt issuances and I present them to you; all of these issuances are GUARANTEED by the Hellenic Republic; full faith and credit.
GREEK SOVEREIGN GUARANTEED DEBT AMOUNT
The New Economy Development Fund $139,000,000.00
The Hellenic Railway $2,240,000,000.00
Structured Notes (Not counting Floating Rate Notes) $20,683,000,000.00
Athens Urban Transportation $837,000,000.00
Greek Bank Guaranteed Debt $83,314,000,000.00
TOTAL GREEK GUARANTEED. DEBT $107,213,000,000.00
Here is $107 billion of OTHER debt; guaranteed debt that does not appear to be included anywhere in the official Greek sovereign debt figures. Contingent liabilities that are not counted any longer perhaps as the accepted manner of doing business now in Europe. Most of these issuances are governed under British law with “Default” clauses and “Negative Covenant” clauses. Greece defaults on €105 billion Euros and adds new debt, the IMF/EU loans, of 130 billion Euros and we are told that Greece is better off today than yesterday. What drivel! With the addition of the new IMF/EU loans of $172 billion and the revelation of the guaranteed debt at $107 billion Greece now has $279 billion of new and hidden debts.
All of the meandering, all of the charades, all of the red nail polish applied will, in the end I forecast, not be able to hide the reality that the barking dog is a greasy Pig.
A Dose of Reality:
- If Greece borrows money from the IMF/EU which means that they have more debt now than they did before they defaulted then they are worse off and not better off as they have a larger debt.
- If Greece has an additional $107 billion in debt that has not been accounted for because it is not in the name of the Hellenic Republic but is guaranteed by the Hellenic Republic then how are they going to pay off this debt?
- If the goal of this entire exercise was to reduce Greece’s debt to GDP ratio to 120% then how will a larger debt accomplish this as it is fiscally impossible.
- If the “real REAL goal” was to pay off the European banks so they wouldn’t default then Europe has accomplished this goal but at a terrible cost to Greece and to the Greek people.
“The time has come, the Walrus said, to speak of many things. Of ships and shoes and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings. Of why the sea is boiling hot, and whether pigs have wings.”
-Lewis Carol
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Europe, like the NYSE Composite, is clearly rolling over. Eventually this is going to have a negative impact on the consumer momentum stocks that are "leading" the US market. This will happen via the soon to be imploding "banks".
http://chartistfriendfrompittsburgh.blogspot.com/2012/03/europe-just-enough-rope-to-hang.html
I agree. I have no idea where to put money at the moment. I think they know they are destroying capital, and they do not care. If they were worried about moral hazard pre-Lehman, there is no such compulsion now.
Oh THAT credit card! We used that a long time ago and when we reached the limit we forgot all about it....
Makes you wonder how the rest of Europe is doing he :)
Speaking of Europe, the oddest aspect of this Greek mess is that Greece alone was responsible for determining if enough creditors agreed to the swap! You'd think there would have been German, French and Dutch "help" to verify, but no member of the Troika was present To say the least, there is massive doubt in Europe over the reliability of those figures (not published by the way). We simply have to take the assurances of those whose only goal was to get another loan. Incredible!
None of this debt will ever be paid off. Everyone knows that.
Paying interest (and fees) is all that counts. As long as Greece can pay the interest and fees, bankers are happy.
Bankers are quite happy to weigh Greece down with enormous debt, interest, and fees.
It might take 50% of Greece's GDP to pay the interest and fees, requiring Greek people to pay enormous taxes. Bankers don't care.
Same thing is happening in America. 2% interest on $15 trillion debt is $300 billion / yr, taken from taxpayers and paid to banks, foreign nations, whoever holds the debt.
Be glad it's not 5%. That would be $750 billion / yr.
Bankers don't care about ever getting the principal back. They created it out of thin air anyway. It didn't cost them a dime. They could lose the entire $15 trillion loaned to America, and they wouldn't care.
They just want the interest. That's where they make money.
I'd love to be able put air in a paper bag, loan the bag to someone, and charge rent on it.
That's what bankers do. Put air in paper bags, loan them to people, and charge rent on them.
They don't care if they ever get the paper bag back. It's worthless.
They just want the rent money.
Wow! That is really dramatic! brilliant! They don't care if they ever get the paper bag back. It's worthless.
They just want the rent money.
The Greeks are about to give them the paper bag back full of used air, and NO rent money. The German tax auditors will never find the gold.
Very very well said
The tricky part for people is to get their eyes to see behind the curtain.
Once the eyes focus, it's easy to see we'ze all been had, hood-winked and bamboozled.
The bankers care about the principal. It is what forces the interest-payers to keep on paying interest. The threat of not rolling over the principal is key, and lets the bankers juice the terms of the next rollover.
Actually it's the debtor who cares about the principal (the bag of air). They think it's real.
The banker knows it's all imaginary. The "money" loaned out is all imaginary.
The debtor has a long legal serious looking document saying they borrowed all this money and have to pay interest on it.
But the money itself is imaginary. It doesn't even exist.
Bankers love playing this game. And that's what it is, just a big game.
Debtors are the ones who think it's real.
A fiat currency is what allows bankers to play this game with people.
A fiat currency is what allows bankers to loan out imginary money, that doesn't even exist, and charge interest on it.
And people fall for it.
Financial alchemy, or maybe more akin to David Copperfield.
A couple of excellently succinct posts CoG - I would take issue with one point though: that 'money' is real & it's stolen form each & every one of us who's not supping at the bankers' trough.
That money is extracted by devaluing our properly earned fiat money - skimming if you will - and giving it back to us with lower buying power. That's what the Bankers lent & Greeks spent & in so doing devalued the dollar in your pocket & pound in mine.
Sweet!
Glad I'm alive.
Again.
It also doesn't hurt to capture the media, corrupt the learning institutions, threaten people with prison, and basicaly point a gun to their head if they try to survive and prosper outside of their crooked money system.
cranky old geezer has it. i have too much student loan debt that i am not able to make full payments on, yet the only thing that they care about is that i make the interest payments. they will always 'work' with you as long as they are getting the juice.
not trying to be any sob story here, i own up to what i agreed to and there are plenty who are worse off than i am, but that's the way it is.
Paying off the principal on any loan is to your advantage not theirs, that's the way it's always been with money lenders. If there were no student loans the Universities would have to lower their prices if they wanted to stay in business. Either that or lend you the money themselves.
i understand that paying down any sort of principal is beneficial to the debtor, the point we're making is that they do not care about the principal because that is subsidised by the government, the interest goes straight towards the coffers of the banks.
they will loan whatever they want, to whomever they want, because in this system it is viewed as 'supplying capital' and that will be supported. however, it will also be bailed out so they don't give a shit, but they will still get their rub, regardless if it bankrupts you, or me, or a continent, or anyone other than the asshole that approves it.
Making soap outta fat.
Well done!
"Bankers don't care about ever getting the principal back. They created it out of thin air anyway. It didn't cost them a dime. They could lose the entire $15 trillion loaned to America, and they wouldn't care."
Not really true Old Geezer. They do create money out of thin air, that is true. However they do not want the debt paid back, if it's paid back they lose power.
Also, you forgot to explain what gives a fiat currency it's "power". The answer is the power to tax. The US government will take only US$ to meet tax obligations. The US$ is the only legally binding form of monetary accounting, ie money, in the US. No other form of currency is legally binding.
Taxation and the law that requires taxes be paid using a specific piece of paper, aside from guns, are what give politicians and the Federal Reserve system power.
American's are slowly waking up to the facts of what really happened back when Nixon made it illegal for American's to hold gold; yes, I know the laws have changed since then but by then damange and intended goals had been achieved. When the US went off the gold standard and made illegal the owning of gold, these two things forced wealth control out of the private sector into the hands of politicians.
American's, of which I am one, are merely having the fruits of the decisions fall from the tree of the "new order" tree that has grown from the progressive, mondernist seeds they planted. And "progressive" politicians are right now frantically chopping away at the tree of liberty while shouting out priomises founded upon social justice lies regarding rights of man.
Here's an interesting nexus of Greece, Islam and debt. Islam grew and spread with the help of debt, usery crushing debt. When a Muslim ruler won control of a city/region after battle, he voided all debts. Usery, was rampant throughout the middle-east and european regions. How do you think such a policy effected the ability of the prior rulers to raise an army? Do you think their opression of others via debt played a role?...
How could Germany after WWI, a very Christian culture, embrace the hate filled messages of Nazism? If you think it was due to anti-semtic beliefs and attitudes of Christian's and Catholics back then you're a fool. The fact they were placed under inescapable and crushing debt by the Treaty of Versailles. AND, Hitler made social promises while promoting national identiy. The former fact is something ignored by liberal progressives when they try to make a metaphorical connection between the Tea Party, guns and the spread of Nazism. Convienient huh.
Not all wars are started because of debt, but throughout history all crushing debt has eventually resulted in revolution and/or war.
There's a reason all the King's men are taken out and killed with the King. And for those of you who cant understand how men can reach a point of horror such as the French Revolution, or the rise of dictators.... well just sit back and watch and learn.
Help me out here, was that before or after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? :)
I thought it was before Clinton got us in that freikin Vietnam war :)
And, was that before or after Ghengis Khan killed Khadafi/Gadaffi/Qadaffy?
MIMDF - FYI - If your post leads with italics, the up/down arrows stop working on some/all browsers.
Here's +
+++ yours.
Also, you forgot to explain what gives a fiat currency it's "power". The answer is the power to tax.
Uhhhhhhhhh........... no.
Let the US dollar stop being the "petrodollar", then lose it's world reserve currency status, and watch it go worthless overnite.
... which the asian (nuclear) alliance is working on incidentally. As we speak. (emphasis on nuclear)
... which is the real reason our (rogue) government wants to invade Iran by the way. Keep that petrodollar thing going.
Agree. If the USD was truly backed by just full faith and cred it would have totaly collapsed within a year of Nixon closing the gold window. It's not magic that the USD is the longest surviving fiat currency. The dollar IS oil and their is a reason this Empire parks all those expensive air craft carriers in the Mid East's back yard. We went through a gold bankrupty after we lost Vietnam. If we have an oil bankruptcy due to a future war not going our way we will go back to the old scam of trying to convice people that their counterfit money is backed by gold and when that fails again they'll come up with another money scam. Same people running the same scams.
Like a sharecropper or a serf.
And Portugal is next up for default.
http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/next-up-in-the-eurozo...
That is string-out debt. String it out, and if somehow (no way in hell) they could catch up, reintroduce it at a later date. Looks better now, and strings them out forever.
It's the capitalistic way.
I think Portugal is up next, been too quiet for too long now. Going to need a new religion to attack soon.
What bothers me is how could all of this "other debt" just not be noticed during these months of negotiations between the slave lord masters and their slaves. Now that the deal is done, all this, "oh by the way we forgot to mention"....debt shows up. There is something wrong with this mix and I am not getting it.
If this is all true, might we actually have a down market on Monday? My heart be still. But I like Sudden Debts explanation, "OH THAT CREDIT CARD". That would explain it.. :)
and let's not forget GS's assist on the application for it so that the plastic could be issued in the first place. that's why it's called the EU: it stinks.
Thou shall not count "off balance sheet debt"...ever.
I could not agree more. Perhaps they thought they would hit the 90% bar and not default at all? Maybe the Greeks weren't being totally honest about the debt and figured let's deal with the national stuff before we get to the business unit debt? Maybe it was a case of "pay no attention to that may behind the curtain", and they thought they could get past it. Who knows? But I've read though the actual spreadsheet line by line, and it looks legit unless there are some other back door agreements somewhere that we don't know about...
Global Debt Crisis
The greatest private fraud of human history.
Who are the great fraudsters who are becoming the murderers of the human kind?
How does the economy "illness" threaten Democracy and the freedom of people?
http://eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2012/01/global-debt-crisis.html
World War III - The First Private War in History
http://eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2012/02/world-war-iii.html
Authored by Panagiotis TRAIANOU.
These were the known unknowns.
Where's the unknown unknoes please.
Some fake(real) bearer bonds methinks.
Euro has defaulted not Greece
The basic fact is that cashflow is king.
Default, restructure, mtom or not, greek hard cash outflow just got reduced by a massive quantity with a massive can kick down the road. Those contingent liabilities are backed by "assets" which will get marked to market at sale/privatisation time (if there are any takers).
To the extent they have been pledged to ECB (the bulk of govt guaranteed greek bank debt which makes up the bulk of that number) any writedowns at any time will be financed by LTRO "cash", and having taken the writedown, the banks will be more secure and able to issue more (govt backed) debt to pay off the LTRO cash when it falls due and in turn borrow more from future LTRO cash, and so on and so on... .
The essence of keeping any ponzi scheme afloat is to have cash coming in at a faster rate than it is going out, USING OTHER PEOPLES MONEY on both directions. simplez.
Peeps can scream all they like about the massive debt we are all in from here to infinity AND BEYOND but no one on this merry go round is going to pull the plug, as yet
Re. no one on this merry go round is going to pull the plug, as yet
Tiny Iceland did.
Maybe the Germans will invade the Golden Triangle and take advantage of heroin cashflow, like the US did in Afghannyland....
all the checks are in the mail
same as last month
the numbers on them have been changed to fuk the innocent
someone should name a horse fungi-cide & run him at longchamps in the LTR0 Handicap...
Eurmany continues to collect, for the time being, on their ever more absurd claims that their trafficked prostitutes and miners for a heart of gold will actually live to infinity.
One day someone will wonder if the juice is really worth all the squeeze.
Zero risk weight, whatta colossal joke that concept has proven to be.
After all this blatant banker fraud and hiding debts and "voluntary" 75% haircuts for everyone except banks, how can anyone possibly hope bankers or the Greek government will EVER do the right thing?
How can anyone possibly hope bankers or the American government will EVER do the right thing?
Bankers are the same way in America as they are in Europe. The American government is the same way the Greek government is. Politicians willing to saddle taxpayers with enormous debt and interest so they can keep borrowing money and spending it like there's no tomorrow.
It's like your spouse charging up the credit card like crazy, buying whatever they want, and sticking you with the bill each month.
How long would you put up with that?
Beauty (right thing) is in the eye of the beholder
I agree. The Chrysler bond deal where second lien holders hopscotched over first lien holders was breathtaking to me. How do you encourage investment in beleaguered entities with this kind of supra contractual (damn near Deux Ex Machina) style intervention? You don't.
Same with sovereign debt crisis. That was when I began to think they were thumbing their nose at contract law, capitalist theory, and personal property rights ON PURPOSE. It was not just some one off deal to help the UAW, and neither are retro CACs to the Greeks.
"It's like your spouse charging up the credit card like crazy, buying whatever they want, and sticking you with the bill each month.
How long would you put up with that?"
Ummmmm, about 7 years.
The whole purpose of bailing out Greece was to convert the unsecured debt of banks into secured debt which has now been done. Greece will now either lose her assets by being forced to sell them or will be required to constantly put money in her loan account from other sources in order that the bankers bonuses will continue to flow under the guise of loan servicing\repayments.
Once the ugliness of the arrangement is fully revealed does anyone think that Portugal and Spain will allow themselves to follow the same path?
Then it will be game, set, match point for the theft and lies foisted on the people and death to the politicians that dared to enslave their people.
Xactly. But yes, Portugal and Spain will be next on the sovereign shishkebab because too many TBTF banks hold their unpayable debt. Every weak link in the Ponzi must be shored up else risk the entire apple cart to fall apart. How else is Spain expected to repay with 25% unemployment, an uncontrollable deficit and a strong Euro?
Next up after Portugal and Spain: ex-Soviet East Europe
Amerika has a resilinet economy, Just ask the libs Yeap. Europe needs Jack in the Box and MCD to get the gormet meals and create employment. Spread the obesity and the toxic food all around.
Maybe the Europrans can emulate the Coronary Capitalism model so successful in the US of A.
"But the obesity epidemic hardly looks like a growth killer. Highly processed corn-based food products, with lots of chemical additives, are well known to be a major driver of weight gain, but, from a conventional growth-accounting perspective, they are great stuff. Big agriculture gets paid for growing the corn (often subsidized by the government), and the food processors get paid for adding tons of chemicals to create a habit-forming – and thus irresistible – product. Along the way, scientists get paid for finding just the right mix of salt, sugar, and chemicals to make the latest instant food maximally addictive; advertisers get paid for peddling it; and, in the end, the health-care industry makes a fortune treating the disease that inevitably results.
Coronary capitalism is fantastic for the stock market, which includes companies in all of these industries. Highly processed food is also good for jobs, including high-end employment in research, advertising, and health care.
So, who could complain? Certainly not politicians, who get re-elected when jobs are plentiful and stock prices are up – and get donations from all of the industries that participate in the production of processed food. Indeed, in the US, politicians who dared to talk about the health, environmental, or sustainability implications of processed food would in many cases find themselves starved of campaign funds."
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/rogoff89/English
"According to a study of more than 2,500 people presented today as a poster at the American Stroke Association International Stroke Conference in Los Angeles, people who drank diet soda daily had a 61 percent increased risk of cardiovascular events compared to those who drank no soda, even when accounting for smoking, physical activity, alcohol consumption and calories consumed per day."
Eat your corn-fed pink slime and just STFU! Just add sugar and greese and you have complete nutrition /src
EU needs to embrace Monsanto and the FDA. Such a fine outstanding organizations to ensure that people are just an experiment.
EU needs to embrace Monsanto and the FDA. Such a fine outstanding organizations to ensure that people are just an experiment.
Sugar? Well, excuse me Mr. Millionaire, but all I need to fuel a rabid good case of diabetes is good ol' cheap HFCS...
Diabetes contributes at least $200 billion to health care racket in the US. Every $1 billion provides 10,000 jobs - so diabetes provides about 2 million jobs or so.
Transfats are quite a bit more effective in inducing diabetes than HFCS.
In case you want to know your diabetes risk and reduce it by 50% or more, you can spend a couple of minutes at
http://diabetesrisk.net/
But you will be killing well paying American jobs.
Good post mate. Unfortunately the average persons understanding of even basic nutrition is almost non-existent. The FDA has become a joke - and the government says one thing...and funds another.
http://www.slowfoodpgh.com/news_archive_usdasubsidies.html
2 million people in the US will get diabetes this year. And about 40 million in the world.
28% of diabetics in the US do not know that they have the disease - they are harming themselves everyday.
Diabetes increases your risk substantially for other diseases like heart disease (200% to 400%), stroke and even cancer and is called the mother of all diseases.
Just 10 minutes of information and you cut your diabetes risk substantailly. Eat a bit of raw food, avoid processed foods, avoid fast food and sodas, exercise a bit, get a bit of sun and you can have a healthy, happy life free from diabetes.
It's an ongoing tragedy which can be easily ended. But there is too much money to be made from it.
Not to mention that avoiding HFCS keeps you from ingesting all the mercury and radioactive shit from the fertilizer.
Oops, I wasn't supposed to mention that....
Sugar, salt, grease, and .............. shucks, I forget what that 4th food group is. :)
Don't forget the makeup that women wear, contains lead. Do i see hags everywhere or what. Give em a few years and see. So much for beauty I guess. Chemical dependency at best in Amerika
Lead in lipstick, arsenic in eyeliner and cadmium in mascara: The ugly secrets that the beauty industry isn’t telling you
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2104453/Cadmium-mascara-lead-l...
Must-give-up-face-licking...
Yea, if you gotta lick something there are better alternatives...
But, but, most deodorants contain aluminum!
But Brawndo's got what plants crave.
it's got electrolytes (bitchez)
Uhm... part of this 'other debt' REALLY IS included in the debt swap. Take Dutch bank ABN-AMRO for instance, which reported on friday: "Underlying net profit of 2011 suffered from EUR 880 million pre-tax impairments on Greek Government-Guaranteed Corporate Exposures." Yup, much to the surprise of ABN-AMRO CEO Gerrit Zalm, the bank 'had' to take part in the voluntary debt swap with (if I'm not mistaken) the Greec government guaranteed loans to Hellenic Railways.
Ah, but the 64k question is was that debt held by ABN Amro you mention under Greek law that was forced to swap? Or, is this debt mentioned in the email not held under greek law (UK law in this case) and was not? How many may be holding out?
I find it hard to believe that this would not have been discussed as part of the larger ECB debt swap before the email this weekend, but nothing about Greece surprises me anymore.
There is a pink pig with wings on Topanga Cyn Blvd. But he has been stuck on top of a long pole. He is dead. Totally.
Once again, some don’t understand why we targeted Libya, Egypt and soon to be Iran. Your Central Banker’s need to set up shop to continue kicking the can down the road. The big orgasm is to integrate all financial systems under the GLOBAL DOW. Bet you didn’t catch that migration a few years back. /LOL
This is a off topic question, why do Americans adopt Chinese kids , Amerikans bash China and then adopt Chinese kids? Interesting or hypocritical? Are Amerikan's ashamed of their own kind anymore? Just thought I would ask.
Hedging against a Chinese takeover. All Americans with Chinese kids will be spared
maybe or Amerikans think that their kids will be stupid if they have one. Just sayin
Asian cultures look after their elderly, house and feed them.
Amerikan children incarcerate them.
Hard decision, meh?
why do Americans adopt Chinese kids
Ever try to adopt in the USA? Ever hear about the birth parent changing their mind?
What is their own kind?
sschu
I happened to catch discussion of the default on NPR's Marketwatch yesterday, and one commentator literally said "Nothing to see here, move along." I kid you not.
They also said that this default was expected for months, which is a complete falsehood, and that the cost would be limited to 3Bn Euros, which as we can see here at ZH, is utter BS.
Wow, you believe that crap? Sure you are entitled to your opinion I guess.
No, I don't. I listen when I'm driving to find out what the educated sheeple are being fed by the propaganda machine. I was a little surprised they used the actual phrase "nothing to see here, just move along."
I'm amazed anyone believes anything coming out of any commercial news outlet. It's almost all lies, from top to bottom.
to find out what the educated sheeple are being fed by the propaganda machine...
+1, i love this.
Brings new meaning to Factory Farming.
It's right out of Brave New World, but yea. We're being "managed," like a zoo, Actually, I think your metaphor is better, it is like factory farming.
Marketwatch = pile of crap
Sacramento’s Bad Humor Man
by Walter Olson on March 8, 2012
Assemblyman William Monning (D-Carmel) wants to ban food trucks from parking anywhere near where schoolkids might be; under legislation he has proposed, they would need to keep even farther away from schools than medical marijuana dispensaries. Since schools dot the urban scene, a side effect would be to seriously curtail adult access to the trucks, which serve a large population of working adults and have lately found new popularity among foodies. [L.A. Times via Heather Mac Donald, Secular Right]
http://overlawyered.com/2012/03/sacramentos-bad-humor-man/
If It's Not Healthy for Monsanto, Why Is It Healthy for Us?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/107379.html?utm_medium=tw...
I have decided to start carrying more debt notes in my wallet. This way, when I get robbed… the thief will relieve me of my Central Bankers debt obligation. The Thief now owns the debt.
Do you begin to see the picture?
I think all Amerikans should. Forget about the EU guys
check this and put in the mix. today i was informed the
local business persons have been warned and no longer
break $100 bills as a variety of counterfeit has been
identified, locally, that passes every test but the black light
test. i asked about this and was told they look perfect.
hmmmm. who made these? and do the banks identify them or
unknowingly distribute them also? and why now?
Recent yahoo blurb about the North Koreans having bought the ink, paper, and swiss presses the treasury utilizes. Estimated additional $25 mil in circulation per year, but the Feds say it could be much more.
I'd bet that Bens last Kinko job won't meet the blacklight test.
is it a good time to say......
'seelver beaa...shtches!"
ok ok .... inna week or two- .bttu.
Oh my, this might wind up hair lipping French power woman Lagarde.. actually, she is probably just making a quick note to well-healed self, need to send Merkel a nice scented candle on Monday or a nice scarf.. that should help put this little 'bump in the road' (cliche!) to bed.
Why do gorillas always get the bad rep? How about an eight hundred pound pig? Bankster pig!
You do make a valid point? Pigs, roasted maybe.
Pig's are much smarter than banker's, they won't shit where they eat.
It's because the DNA is closest to human.
Congress needs to take up the Gorilla to Pigs in the next session and deabte and write inot legislation and spend about say 500 billion or so. Amerikans will never know they are being fleeced.
the 7 Step Process
1) Good Money
2) Social programs
3) Military
4) Military Spending up
5) oFF GOLD Standard
6) Inflation
7) Currency Dies.
So where do you think Amerika is in the list? I bet most are finding an IAPP for that. Dumb fuck sheeples will never wake up
While I like what you say centurion, you are wrong when you say:
"Also, you forgot to explain what gives a fiat currency it's "power". The answer is the power to tax. The US government will take only US$ to meet tax obligations. The US$ is the only legally binding form of monetary accounting, ie money, in the US. No other form of currency is legally binding. "
What gives currency its power is simply the confidence that when you get your paycheck you can go buy what you need with it. That's why when inflation really starts to bite, the jig will be up for the banksters and their lackeys in government, because that's when the people will finally figure out what has been perpetrated on them and that's when they'll be pissed enough to get off their fat asses to actually do something about it. If it isnt too late by then that is.
Freak'in banksters and politician's say, if Greece defaults, the exposure will be minimal... Sooo much "hidden debt". The EU is bankrupt, not just Greece.
We could fill this entire blog with bankers and governments statements and there contradictory outcomes. LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE.
there is no money in the global system, it is all debt,
so who will buy my wonderful roses? no one till the debt is
wiped out. it doesn't stop at the eu.... or till even greater
levels of debt are tolerated / become tolerable. here is where
war comes in. it is the human activity that dulls men's minds
and renders them subject to "authority" under penalty of
ubiquitous and unexamined immediate death by "power", debts be damned;
the intelligence and intellect of the bacteria or rather
fungi. it is a universal principle accorded to simple
life forms of which man calls "leadership" in his fear and
desperation, scientifically arranged and implemented by the bankers.
a devil clown shit show i say!
.
[OTE148] On the Edge with Steve Keen
Posted on March 10, 2012 by stacyherbert
http://maxkeiser.com/2012/03/10/ote148-on-the-edge-with-steve-keen/
Wow. Active weekend. Don't forget this entire US market rally has been inverse to the dollar on a per candle basis. I will be beyond words if the dollar doesn't catch a bid and this rally officially concludes this week.
Thing is they have this market pumped up so high it could lose 3,000pts and still be overpriced fucking garbage and I predict the precious 10k line will be met with QE3.
I'm starting to get the feeling that the "good part" of the movie is just about ready to roll.
What confidence is left in this system is going to be washed away. Generally that's what happens when you find out you've been lied to for decades on end. About everything. I know many of us want a collapse/reset so we can rebuild but fact of the matter is it will be mass chaos, hard telling what tptb have up their sleeves to deal with this. "oh we need a 3rd world war with nukes, millions of dead people, and new world currency". I assure you it won't be pretty.
It's times like this I am glad I went my own route for the past 3 years and have partied my ass off. Speaking of which, I have to get that beer machine put together tonight.
Get ready (for some pain to have) ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_2gWp0m-I8
http://www.theheartlessbastards.com/news/
03.07.2012
"Parted Ways” Music Video Now On VEVO!
I smell a whole lot of hanky panky......
Pee yeewww.
I have been reading some of the Greek opinions in newspapers online. I would have expected more hostile opinions. Does the average Greek person even really care? Or do they only care if the cash runs out?
Thirty percent of Athens shops closed:
http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/15/53914
The more I have thought about this whole "triggering of CDS payout event", the more I have realized that maybe things are going exactly as scripted. The whole worth of CDS has been called into question over the last few months (years) as one technical default after another hasn't triggered an official payout. They needed to have a manageable "default" occur to show that yes, these financial instruments have merit, and you should continue to purchase them. In fact, due to the translucency of these instruments, they can hide a lot of back-door bailouts for certain "important" institutions with CDS counterparty exposure to the GGB's.
It almost feels like Lehman all over again. They have obviously picked a bank or two which will have to fail (and be gobbled up by one of the "chosen" players) in order to show that there is/was a net effect to the financial industry, and we can all rest assured that the weaker players have been washed out of the system. So, buy those CDS on all of that muni debt coming into the market - they are counting on you!
Believe it or not, but Lehman did provide a wake-up call for some bank / banksters. They're not asleep on the wheel 99% of the time you know... In short: Isda / it's members did in fact run a 'CDS grosse and nett fall-out' testing round and apart from some damage here and there, they were quite comfortable with the results. So don't go betting the farm on shorts (just yet)...
I love this, WE have been misled. It appears. It must be SMOKE and whatever.
SMOKE and vaseline
QUESTION.
Jim Sinclair has been really busy on the CDS question over at King World News the past month, if not longer. He states that the greek CDS outstanding is somewhere around $37 trillion dollars. That is simply mind boggling, if true. I wonder if there is anyway to verify what he is talking about. I have yet to see anything anywhere else (even on the blogosphere) about what he brought up Friday:
King World News
“The BIS confirms, in the area of CDS’s the total outstanding is approximately $37 trillion. So I believe the reports being given about this just being a small and modest market event is false. As a market observer and having more than 50 years in the business, the real number is at least 50% or more of the existing $37 trillion that is related to Greece.
...
KWN readers need to know that non-consolidated subsidiaries have in fact been the main issuers of over the counter derivatives. These banks were grantors of the derivatives, some in Germany and some in Switzerland. But it is not believable that German and Swiss institutions did virtually all CDS transactions and only a tiny fraction was done by US banks. That’s absolute madness.
...
If...CDS’s are brought into play, you are going to bring in significant Fed swaps which will go to the ECB. These funds will then be redirected to the subsidiaries and to the foreign banks. Very simply, the number is not $3.5 billion. It’s some part of $37 trillion. The emergency swaps from the Fed could total in the trillions of dollars.
...
The implications of this, if it comes to pass, are a second rescue of approximately eight international banks. Central planners would attempt to totally camouflage this and it would only be readable by tracking swaps from the Fed because the Fed is the lender of last resort."
18 trillion dollars.
Bloody hell, that's a lot of SpaghettiO's.
Is Greece the latest Goldman Sachs scam? Are we going to have to cough up 37 trillion dollars now to them so Warren Buffett can bail out those super brilliant Wall Street Ivy Leaguers out again so they can continue getting their massive bonuses?
I have the solution, we will form a greek central bank that can issue and print currency into circulation.
We should then dissolve the euro and use the greek central bank notes as the reserve currency for europe.
The notes could be called the Danarius.
The greek central bank will lend the euro zone all its currency into circulation for a low low introductory rate of 1% compounding interest.
Europe will have to pay its taxes to greece.
The system is flawless.
Greece will be out of debt and will be able to afford to build up its infrastructure by exporting inflation to the euro zone while importing goods and services and material.
The greek government will be solvent because the euro zone will pay all its taxes directly to greece by attahing the greek tax to all of the euro zones electric bills.
It will then become impossible for greece to ever default.
"I have the solution, we will form a greek central bank that can issue and print currency into circulation."
Why not doing it like some spain village:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2108888/Spanish-village-leases-l...
Would produce some money with intrinsic value, also everybody who smoking it would be actively fighting inflation.
Also : (hemp tax payment was legal in the us for over 200 years)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080225124905AARyfRZ
Wow, it took all of five minutes for Greece to flame out after being saved! I just can't stop laughing. There has got to be a Guiness World Record in here somewhere. Fastest default after a default?
That gorilla is such a liar, liar, pants on fire. His pants are all burned up. Whoa, look at that humungous EU member. Don't let that thing near me. I still got hemoroids from the last reaming. Hey, Magilla, look at the fine tush on those bondholders and CDS issuers over there. Looks like they need a really good credit event to me. You're on a roll, buddy, and three-quarters of the way home. Now, go over there, unleash another gigantic default load like the stud you are, and get r' done.
Yea, but Greece is saved:)
Mark Mobius says invest in Ukranian and Greek public restrooms.
Well we are a bit short this month, would you take this slightly used Pugeot stock in liu of your Social Security payment?
what a load of crap.....
"The purpose of the list is to provide information as to the range of obligations that market participants believe may be deliverable upon the occurrence, and in potential settlement, of a credit event under standard credit default swaps for which the Hellenic Republic is the reference entity"
wiser are you saying these bonds were accounted for by the EU and mark grant is wrong or that it is a load of crap that the EU didnt include them?
the 1st.. they were accounted for
http://www.google.gr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cts=1331486821140&ved=0CDYQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.isda.org%2Fattachment%2FNDA3OA%3D%3D%2FFAQs%2520on%2520Greek%2520Obligations%25203-7-2012.pdf&ei=V-BcT7C6BMqF4gTl8sybDw&usg=AFQjCNGsl7ZzGJDpd0tdBqpFjGuIGVEA5Q
Greece defaults on €105 billion Euros and adds new debt, the IMF/EU loans, of 130 billion Euros and we are told that Greece is better off today than yesterday. What drivel! With the addition of the new IMF/EU loans of $172 billion and the revelation of the guaranteed debt at $107 billion Greece now has $279 billion of new and hidden debts.
YOU ARE MISSING SOME NUMBERS HERE
1. PLUS 34BILL EURO FROM THE 1ST FACILITY ( 110B MAY 2010 )
2. EXTRA 30BILL OF GOV GUARANTEES TO THE BANKS, ( ADDED TO THE 30B FOR RECAP FROM NEW LOAN )
ALSO,
- Why No one asks the very simple question ( in our line of business ) :
- WHAT WILL BE THE FREAKING RATING OF THE NEW BONDS ??
- WHY NONE OF THE 3 SISTERS OF MERCY, NEVER ADDRESSED THIS ISSUE ?
- WHY THEY HAVE NOT INCLUDED A CLAUSE OF ” NO RESTRUCTURING ‘ IN THE NEW BONDS ?
- WHY THE GREEK BONDHOLDERS – THE VOLUNTEERS – ARE TREATED UNEQUALLY IN RESPECT TO THE ‘NON GREEK’ WHO ARE BRIBED WITH 30 BILL EURO CASH COLLATERAL ON NEW BONDS ? WHAT ISDA HAS TO SAY ABOUT THAT ?
pp
MODDYS SAIS (3/9) ITS A DEFAULT !
http://www.scribd.com/doc/84917319/Moodys-Research-Document-Greece-Has-DEFAULTED-March-9-2012-PP
NYT ON GREEK CDS'S
http://www.scribd.com/doc/84920917/The-New-York-Times-March-10-2012-Greece-and-CDS-PP
FYI
The GS currency swap of 2001, IS NOT INCLUDED ON TEH HAIRCUT !!! WEIRD ?? NO...! LOL
pp
There sure are a lot of anaimals in this zoo lately... Black swans and elephants and gorillas oh my!
as well as, raindeers and some sharks. they were on on a DIET since 2009...
Calvo Doctrine, a body of international rules regulating the jurisdiction of governments over aliens and the scope of their protection by their home states, as well as the use of force in collecting indemnities.
The doctrine was advanced by the Argentine diplomat and legal scholar Carlos Calvo, in his International Law of Europe and America in Theory and Practice (1868). It affirmed that rules governing the jurisdiction of a country over aliens and the collection of indemnities should apply equally to all nations, regardless of size. It further stated that foreigners who held property in Latin American states and who had claims against the governments of such states should apply to the courts within such nations for redress instead of seeking diplomatic intervention. Moreover, according to the doctrine, nations were not entitled to use armed force to collect debts owed them by other nations. A Calvo clause in a contract between the government of a Latin American state and an alien stipulates that the latter agrees unconditionally to the adjudication within the state concerned of any dispute between the contracting parties.
The Calvo Doctrine was essentially restated by the Drago Doctrine, articulated by the Argentine foreign minister Luis María Drago in 1902. Venezuela then was indebted to Great Britain, Germany, and Italy, which threatened armed intervention to collect. Drago advised the United States government that “The public debt cannot occasion armed intervention nor even the actual occupation of the territory of American nations.” This statement against European intervention in the Americas squared with U.S. policy, as set forth in the Monroe Doctrine (1823) and the Roosevelt Corollary (1904); the U.S. government assented to the modified Drago version at the second Hague Peace Conference (1907) in the form adopted as the Porter Convention on the Limitation of the Employment of Force for the Recovery of Contract Debts. Although the United States opposed European intervention in the Americas, it reserved for itself the right, frequently used, to intervene with armed force in any Latin-American state where conditions seemed to menace U.S. interests.
PP
I disagree, somewhat, on how this article was presented. Just because I've co-signed my friend's car loan, doesn't neccessarily mean that I have taken on more debt, it just means that if my friend defaults, I am responsible for making the payments (but I also get the car). Now if it is more likely than not that my friend is going to default, most acconting practices will either demands that you book a liabilty (and the according expense) or at the very least disclose the contigency. However, I have no idea what the greek government accounting rules are...
I'm not so concerned about the transportation entities borrowings. There are assets behind them, and although there might not be a revenue stream to back them at the very present, those trains and buses are worth SOMETHING at least. Now if all of that debt is geared towards funding pensions, that is anothe matter...
The 83bln of gauranteed debt IS somewhat alarming, however. Where is all of that money? Was it used to finance other loans? What's the quality of those loans? Are they collateralized? WHAT is the RISK that all of these bank default? AND will they all default at the same time? - If you guys could just go ahead and figure all of that out, that would be great, mmmaky? Grrreat.
83 billion in guaranteed Greek bank debt - that's a huge problem for the banking system, but I don't see how you can tag that on to Greece's national debt, regardless of the "guarantees" the Greek state has provided people with money in the Greek banks. And we need to remember that guaranteed debt is not a complete write off.
The situation is by far bad enough without counting every liabililty as a bad debt.
All that matters is if, in the guaranteed debt, there is a clause that makes it due immediately should the guarantor (the Greek state) go into default (by a definition triggered by the CAC activation).
Personally, I doubt there is such a clause...the situation would never have been considered, and if it had, it would have been based on rating downgrades long since passed.
Watson
http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/foreign-tax-collectors-and-non-greek-bond-laws-coming-to-the-usa/
...we can snicker at Geece all we want... wait 'till our own doorbell rings...
Here is what the MSM is saying --
"Sydney - Monday - March 12: (RWE Aust Business News) - Global share markets were mostly positive on Friday with excellent US non-farm payroll numbers, while the initial situation over Greece has almost been solved."