This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Guest Post: If The Market Crashes, Who Owns Enough Stock To Even Care?
Submitted by Charles Hugh Smith from Of Two Minds
If the Market Crashes, Who Owns Enough Stock to Even Care?
Since 81% of all stocks are owned by the top 10%, a stock market crash has little effect on the bottom 90% of Americans.
It is assumed without question that the stock market is some quasi-sacrosanct barometer of the U.S. economy. But who even cares if the market crashes? Only the top 10% who own it. Yes, millions of (generally government) workers have an indirect stake in stocks and bonds via their state/union pension funds, but it's still informative to look at the distribution of who actually has a stake in the market's rise and fall.
This data is from pre-recession 2007, so I suspect ownership has become even more skewed to the top 5% as those below liquidated stocks to pay the bills as household income and housing equity plummeted.
A severe decline in the "wealth effect" would probably crimp the top 10% tranche's carefree spending, which accounts for some 40% of the nation's consumer spending. If the market crashes, high-end retailers and restaurants would likely see sales fall significantly. While there would be consequences, we should be careful not to overstate the stock market's role in the nation's Main Street economy.
And what are the chances of a real crash? For insight, we turn to the The Chart Store's chart overlaying the current rally and collapse with the Dow circa 1907. The similarity is rather uncanny:
The only difference is the Fed launched QE2 late in 2010, which kept the rally alive for another 6 months. But as we can see, it didn't change the future decline, it simply set it forward a few months: the current market has now caught up with the 1907 decline.
The past is simply one possible pattern of many to consider, but the remarkable similarity of these two charts suggests that there may be more downside ahead.
One last point: those who exited the stock market won't care if it crashes because they opted out of playing the risky game altogether.
»
- 11495 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
I hope that's sarcasm- if not, you're an idiot.
I have three grade-school kids to support, and they are the *reason* I make an effort to scrimp and save. They are also the reason I keep reading these articles instead of watching movies or going out. If I wasn't worried about taking care of them, I could be out spending on big screen tvs and other assorted consumer crap. I remember the days before I had kids, and there was no real incentive to save- my ex-wife and I bought whatever we wanted like it was Christmas every day, and went out for dinner in nice restaurants three or four days a week. My average bank account balance was about $20 after all that every week, but I never cared because I was the only one who would be hurt if things turned sour.
Now that there are little people who are unable to care for themselves in the picture, I deny myself anything needed to save against what looks to be a nasty storm on the horizon. I can only hope that it is enough, and I will never have to see my children starve.
If you also have children, I hope you are doing the same. Excuses aren't going to mean much when you have to tell them there is nothing for them to eat. Save it now, because tomorrow is too late.
Nevermind- I'm an idiot. I misread what you said above. That is pretty funny.
I can ALWAYS count on coming here for my daily laugh........ since having to give up the socialist bought off daily show and colbert report I find such solace at ZERO HEDGE. thank you all
bullshit right back at ya....prolly was earning numbers high enuf to put him in the top ten percent on or about the point he'd been working 20 years
summers off
gubmint paycheck with fat ass bennies
got two teachers in the family
i know what they make, and its enuf to put em in the top ten percent in their late thirties to early forties
and if he lost 80k last week, he had seriously misallocated his money
thats only a bit more than i made last week
perhaps he should actively manage his funds, or read
you read this site....you shoulda told him it was coming
'We can conclude that 11.7 million out of the nation's 117 million households will actually be adversely affected by a stock market crash, while the consequences to the remaining 105 million households will be slight to zero.'
Charles Hugh Smith is so consumed with his class war agenda that he makes nonsensical statements such as the one quoted above.
Beneficiaries of state and local pension funds, such as teachers and government workers, are mostly not in the top decile of wealthholders. But their retirement income is greatly threatened by the poor returns on pension portfolios over the past decade.
Monumentally ignorant ideologues like Smith demean the quality of this excellent site. Stuff the yammering dipshit's mouth with a tennis ball and duct tape it shut!
You are right about one thing: there has been a class war waged, and waged damn effectively I might add, for the last 30 years.
Yes, they are, Stupid Fucktard.
Per the above (#1557693):
From 2008 data (the most recent I could find) the cut-offs are
top 10% - $113,799
top 5% - $159,619
top 1% - $380,354
What's the average wage paid to a Federal Government employee? Fuctard?
$156k.
So, fuck you.
Public employees are grossly, grotesquely overpaid.
Average cop in Vallejo ... $120,000 (plus) as of about six years ago. And, they only have to work until age 50. And, they get to game their retirement (like 80% of $120,000 isn't enough to live on).
Average lifeguard in Newport Beach ... $150,000 (plus) as of about six months ago. And, they only have to work until age 50. And, they get to game their retirement (like 80% of $120,000 isn't enough to live on).
You would be astounded, literally flabbergasted, to know what that nice lady working at the counter at the city who takes your money makes. (And her boss? Fugedaboudit.)
There is a list online of Illinois public employees and their remuneration. Believe it or not, there is a high school teacher in Illinois making almost $650,000 a year:
Name: Bouman, Timothy
Salary: $632,000
Position: High School Teacher
Full/Part Time: Fulltime
Percent Time Employed: 100%
Assignment: English (Grades 9-12 Only)
Years Teaching: 12
Degree: Master’s
School Name: Noble Street Charter High School
District Name: City of Chicago SD 299
And let's not forget about:
Name: Ancelet, Barbara
Salary: $609,300
Position: Psychologist
Full/Part Time: Fulltime
Percent Time Employed: 100%
Assignment: Psychologist
Years Teaching: 20
Degree: Master's
School Name: Spec Educ Assoc of Adams County
District Name: Spec Educ Assoc of Adams County
Name: Ballough, Tiffany
Salary: $379,600
Position: Speech/Language Pathologist
Full/Part Time: Fulltime
Percent Time Employed: 100%
Assignment: Speech and Language Impaired
Years Teaching: 1
Degree: Master's
School Name: Spec Educ Assoc of Adams County
District Name: Spec Educ Assoc of Adams County
If you care, you can go see for yourself … name, school, etc. And there are just thousands of others just like them. THOUSANDS. Maybe millions. In every state, county, city, and who knows what Redevelopment Agency throughout the country. Not to mention the Feds. Not to mention pensions and medical benefits. Three months off each year. Etc. Etc.
A lot of this information is public record, and can even be found online. For example, the online sister of the San Francisco Chronicle published such a list for California a few years ago. Of state employees making over $100,000 a year. (Well, about half of them, anyway.) It was thirteen hundred freakin' pages long with name after name after name on each page. Not including pensions, medical, housing allowances, car allowance, cellphones, private chefs, and personal watercraft.
This is freakin’ crazy, and if you don't think that that adds up ... with 20 or 30 million such?
Look, folks. This isn’t politics. Or economics. It’s math.
One last thing, too. The averages for 'private sector' include such as nurses and the like. If you think a nurse is 'private sector', well, then you must think that Blackwater employees and UAW workers are 'private sector', too.
Actual private sector pay is a mere fraction of what we are told. $50k? Huh. I'll bet it's more like $30 or 35k.
Do you have any fucking idea of how many County of Los Angeles employees there are who make in excess of $100,000 per year?
18,000.
So, fuck you and your, oh, poor, suffering public employee crap. Overpaid and under worked. Pampered and perfumed overlords and 'ladies'.
And derek jeter takes home millions per year among all the others. Yep..it's all government people sucking u dry. Watch out for your flouridated water! It's coming for ya!
I know that Derek Jeter is some professional sports figure. And the reason I know that is because he has some incredibly attractive wife or girlfriend, or something like that.
But, other than that, Derek Jeter has absolutely no bearing on my life whatsoever. He does not, for example, come to my house at periodic intervals throughout the year and use the police power of the state to extort money from me by threat of force to stuff into his already over fattened pension and bank account.
That alone distinguishes him sufficiently from any 'public employee' to render any invocation of his name and remuneration in the context of the issues sub judice utterly and embarrassingly absurd.
To my knowledge, Derek Jeter has never demanded a penny from me (nor threatened to kill me if I didn't pony up [remember ... police power of the state]), nor have I ever given him a penny, and he seems to be satisfied with that. Wish I could say the same about Mr. Timothy Bouman.
The information comes from the Teacher Service Record (TSR) compiled/maintained/reported/put together/etc. by the Illinois State Board of Education based on information reported to the ISBE (Illinois State Board of Education) by the individual school districts.
Yearly TSRs are available in Microsoft Excel format at the ISBE's website at:
http://www.isbe.state.il.us/research/htmls/teacher_service_record.htm
(Warning: They are fairly large files in a newer Excel format. If you have an older version of Excel or have trouble opening the file, you might try OpenOffice, which seems to parse the files just fine. For those that don't feel like screwing with it, online versions can be found, for example, at:
http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php
Is the Family Taxpayers' data accurate? Well, here's what Park Ridge-Niles School District 64 themselves have to say at their official school district website:
http://d64.e2services.net/staff/assmt.html
In a nutshell, Champion.org (Family Taxpayers) is a reliable source of individual salary data for FY2005 (school year 2004/05) and FY2004. However, individual salary data is inaccurate for FY2003, FY2002, and earlier. Compensation figures reported for about two-thirds of the staff are understated by 1-5% up to 10% or more. This creates a bias toward overstating compensation growth from those and earlier years.
Obviously, SD64 has not updated their website in a while, but the data spot checks accurate for subsequent years.
Good enough for you?
Hahahahahahahah who can believe any of your poisonous make believe fiction?
A $600,000 p.a. High School Teacher? Links to a federal, state or news site please or it never happened except in your sick imagination.
Attack the public sector to strengthen the hands of the corporations and the billionaire kleptocrats who have been outsourcing jobs and GDP from the US for decades.
Here they (top 200) are for 2010:
Russell, Lucille $413,000
Engler, Thomas $350,154
Dada, M Mohsin $341,747
Fleming, Larry $334,912
Lamberson, Jonathan $318,324
Giannetti, Glen $307,471
Many, Thomas $299,600
Harper, John $297,605
May, Loren $292,157
Mical, Gary $288,564
Lane, Bruce $282,648
Rafferty, Edward $282,121
Carmine, Joyce $281,950
McTague, Frances $279,670
Mansfield, Edward $276,014
Barshinger, Jack $274,934
Buckner, J Kamala $274,592
Nebor, Jon $272,412
Schoffstall, Phillip $271,241
Hill, Gerald $271,142
Humphrey, Steven $270,635
Doebert, Sandra $270,197
Swanstrom, Paul $269,342
Fornero, George $269,335
Yonke, Linda $266,420
Robbins, Kathryn $265,724
Joy, Donna $262,431
Porto, Joseph $262,325
Kroeze, David $261,900
Schlomann, Donald $261,398
Vieth, Linda $259,892
Boyd, Alex $259,844
Rodgers, John $259,604
Weninger, Attila $258,991
Thomas, Timothy $258,004
Raymond, Garry $257,332
Renner, Sandra $256,633
Perdue, John $255,353
Riebock, Ann $255,271
Wyllie, Lawrence $252,775
Sorrick, Kenneth $251,922
Schweers, Daniel $251,461
Jerome, Sarah $251,460
Wahl, Nicholas $250,702
Pryor, Sally $250,300
Gatta, Nanciann $250,167
Sobocinski, Philip $249,655
Twadell, Eric $248,283
Blanche, James $245,692
Behlow, David $245,000
Schuler, David $245,000
Meissen, Michael $245,000
Batiste, Donaldo $245,000
Kurr, Gregory $245,000
Culver, Arthur $245,000
Williams, Creg $245,000
Rydland, James $245,000
Milton, Walter $245,000
Wilson, Phyllis $245,000
Riggle, Michael $245,000
Davis, Blondean $245,000
Lindsay, Thomas $244,962
Witherspoon, Eric $244,461
Goers, Donald $244,397
Westerhold, Jane $242,902
Mitrovich, Mark $242,884
Murphy, Hardy $242,843
Torres, Jose $242,825
Jordan, William $242,406
Dart, Paul $241,994
Taylor, Rick $240,387
Gillum, Robert $239,755
Bridges, Lela $238,824
Lee, Calvin $237,769
Robb, Nancy $237,566
Lechner, Raymond $236,621
Tivador, Edward $236,605
Hawk, Jill $236,539
Collins, Constance $236,029
Baule, Steven $236,014
Sass, Michael $234,420
Benedetti, John $233,353
Byrne, John $232,871
Brendel, Jerome $232,757
Birkett, Kathryn $231,796
Sheffield, LaVonne $231,788
Butts, John $231,588
Amadio, Thomas $231,237
Shields, William $230,896
Dada, Yasmine $230,610
Nielsen, Robert $230,497
Lukich, Daniel $230,220
Berger, Robert $229,299
Edgecombe, Jason $228,173
Leonard, Thomas $227,991
Lea, Prentiss $227,973
Ward-Epstein, Dennice $227,914
Kalinich, Kelley $227,214
Handcock, Darryl $226,913
Steyskal, James $226,260
Hewitt, Larry $226,053
Davis, Gloria $226,007
Armanetti, Arleen $225,893
Michelini, Mark $225,830
Collins-Hart, Nettie $225,165
Hagerman, Thomas $224,878
Longo, Margaret $224,492
Arndt, Kenneth $224,134
Goier, Renee $223,413
Albus, Allen $222,255
Finger, Catherine $222,152
Gonzalez, Janet $222,056
Berning, Catherine $221,767
Swoboda, Joy $221,393
Surber, James $221,335
O'Donnell, Daniel $220,751
Kendall, William $220,187
Kilrea, Timothy $220,046
Foderaro, Kerry $219,872
Clark, Christine $219,646
Bolek, Barry $219,360
Mutchler, Kent $218,709
Roberts, Jerome $217,973
Millard, Beth $217,838
Auer, Carol $216,907
Zafiratos, Dr. Thomas $216,780
Cooper, Laura $216,746
Obradovich, George $216,445
Correll, Ellen $215,702
Paraday, Troy $215,539
Perkins, Kim $215,406
Wallace, Kenneth $215,231
Krizic, Lynn $215,231
Lupo, Robert $214,992
Trumble, Douglas $214,794
MacAskill, Dan $214,619
Ware, Jody $214,309
Martin, John $214,289
Whittaker, Cindy $213,922
Mattingly, William $213,194
Krause, Ronald $213,090
Adamic, Donna $211,768
Sheahan, Mark $211,717
Hackett, Judith $211,427
Buchanan, Gregory $210,847
Hoyda, Marion $210,717
Riordan, Michael $210,615
Benway, Darcy $210,527
Ehrhardt, Philip $210,414
Briscoe, James $210,320
Young, Christopher $210,020
Vincenti, Robert $209,936
Hebson, Suzan $209,721
Prince, John $209,700
Shinners, Marie $209,010
Bonner, Barbara $208,974
Rudig, Douglas $208,972
Majchrowicz, Joseph $208,833
Dagley, Glenna $208,712
Zabilka, Gary $208,698
Claypool, David $208,165
Dubec, Joseph $208,030
Drury, Richard $208,000
Borja, Janet $207,810
Gunnell, James $207,806
Niehaus, Gary $207,793
Eddy, Thomas $207,340
Di Virgilio, Robert $206,870
Engel, Jill $206,516
Williams, Rudolph $206,265
Gay, James $206,251
Zaander, Paul $206,167
Herrmann, Mary $205,800
Tabbert, Victoria $205,560
Eason-Watkins, Barbara $205,556
Hollich, Pamela $205,463
Fredisdorf, Mark $204,746
Schlichting, Glenn $204,731
Taylor, Roberta $204,499
Asplund, John $203,887
Prosise, Roger $203,424
Swanson, Bradley $203,275
Wrzeski, Ellyn $203,248
Ward, Maria $203,076
O'Mara, Kevin $202,814
White, Donald $202,566
Middleton, David $202,472
Hutton, John $202,263
Barnhart, Brian $202,262
Guarrine, Gregory $202,161
Pierce, Kathleen $201,932
Houselog, Michael $201,928
Donegan, Catherine $201,894
Cavallo, Jr., Louis $201,743
Matthews, Janice $201,301
Manville, Margaret $200,794
Ireland, Susan $200,736
Wernet, Patricia $200,654
Brown, Traci $200,653
Freeman, Robert $200,058
And here they (top 200) are for 2009:
Bouman, Timothy $632,000
Ancelet, Barbara $609,300
Ballough, Tiffany $379,600
Gmitro, Henry $368,589
Kelly, Dennis $339,962
Dada, M Mohsin $337,493
Hager, Maureen $336,304
Fleming, Larry $315,263
Gatta, Nanciann $310,288
Palermo, Joseph $303,101
May, Loren $299,842
Harper, John $296,517
Giannetti, Glen $290,067
Mical, Gary $288,564
Engler, Thomas $284,675
Many, Thomas $282,315
Rafferty, Edward $282,289
Herrmann, Mary $281,463
Williams, Kathleen $277,494
Lamberson, Jonathan $274,263
Friedman, Mark $273,845
Lane, Bruce $273,828
Truemper, Ross $268,211
Wilson, Phyllis $266,895
Carmine, Joyce $266,615
Murphy, Hardy $266,172
Van Clay, Mark $266,109
Doebert, Sandra $265,782
Buckner, J Kamala $264,194
Humphrey, Steven $263,123
Mink, Jon $262,332
Fornero, George $261,681
Barshinger, Jack $261,332
Nebor, Jon $258,375
Locigno, Michael $257,855
Joy, Donna $257,285
Mansfield, Edward $256,997
Schoffstall, Phillip $255,888
Schlomann, Donald $253,120
Baldermann, John $253,020
Williams, Creg $252,492
Yonke, Linda $252,200
Robbins, Kathryn $250,683
Welch, Michael $249,373
Riebock, Ann $247,836
Wyllie, Lawrence $247,819
Boyd, Alex $247,798
Porto, Joseph $247,475
Twadell, Eric $246,809
Perdue, John $245,218
Cleland, Janell $245,208
Vieth, Linda $245,181
Schilling, Craig $244,983
Madonia, Robert $244,398
Meissen, Michael $243,479
Milton, Walter $242,825
Kroeze, David $242,825
Renner, Sandra $242,107
Wahl, Nicholas $241,059
Pryor, Sally $241,030
Swanstrom, Paul $240,237
Paraday, Troy $239,110
Lukich, Daniel $238,617
Schuler, David $238,292
McTague, Frances $237,646
Rench, Kevin $237,540
Hill, Gerald $237,359
Lindsay, Thomas $237,318
Thomas, Timothy $236,702
Raymond, Garry $234,722
Brendel, Jerome $234,526
Sass, Michael $234,420
Miller, Ronald $233,771
Rodgers, John $232,498
Vick, David $232,242
Byrne, John $230,960
Witherspoon, Eric $230,900
Collins-Hart, Nettie $230,743
Goers, Donald $230,563
Weninger, Attila $230,116
Riggle, Michael $230,000
Davis, Blondean $230,000
Kurr, Gregory $230,000
Culver, Arthur $230,000
Behlow, David $230,000
Sobocinski, Philip $230,000
Batiste, Donaldo $230,000
Daeschner, Stephen $230,000
Rydland, James $230,000
Torres, Jose $230,000
Collins, Constance $229,543
Lechner, Raymond $229,208
Jordan, William $228,685
Schweers, Daniel $228,601
Dart, Paul $228,432
Leis, Alan $228,238
Brown, Bruce $228,216
Hawk, Jill $227,639
Mellen, Nanette $227,351
Taylor, Rick $227,249
Hernandez, Linda $227,167
Goier, Renee $226,906
Sorrick, Kenneth $226,689
Gillum, Robert $226,184
Blanche, James $225,043
Swoboda, Joy $224,659
Juarez, Ascencion $224,636
Lee, Calvin $224,317
Bridges, Lela $224,266
Surber, James $223,649
Ward-Epstein, Dennice $223,166
Hunigan, Howard $222,425
Williams, Rudolph $222,324
Johnson, Warren $222,247
Butts, John $221,860
Mc Cord, Kathleen $221,285
Amadio, Thomas $220,560
Westerhold, Jane $220,327
Lea, Prentiss $220,323
Benedetti, John $220,144
Leonard, Thomas $220,066
Albus, Allen $220,046
Finck, Ricky $219,287
Davis, Gloria $218,874
Dietz, Gregory $218,867
Mc Cormick, Charles $218,728
Mutchler, Kent $218,709
Houselog, Michael $218,192
Arndt, Kenneth $217,799
Finger, Catherine $217,796
Dada, Yasmine $217,579
Jerome, Sarah $217,505
Nielsen, Robert $217,451
Hagerman, Thomas $217,246
Briscoe, James $217,108
Berger, Robert $216,322
Handcock, Darryl $216,076
Madden, Marilyn $215,821
Lupo, Robert $214,490
Butters, Howard $213,319
Armanetti, Arleen $213,107
Knutson, Brian $212,998
Longo, Margaret $212,730
Sabatino, Joseph $212,079
Baule, Steven $212,042
Kendall, William $211,883
Michelini, Mark $211,546
Kanzulak, Ronald $211,539
Adamic, Donna $211,459
Tivador, Edward $211,100
Robb, Nancy $211,021
Howard, Richard $210,761
Benway, Darcy $210,527
Bolek, Barry $209,872
Foderaro, Kerry $209,072
Hackett, Judith $208,535
Drury, Richard $208,000
Edgecombe, Jason $207,835
Romain, Bruce $207,579
Ware, Jody $206,434
Hebson, Suzan $206,319
Kalinich, Kelley $205,856
Roberts, Jerome $205,634
Cucio, Ross $205,295
Whittaker, Cindy $205,242
Zimmermann, Pamela $205,103
Morris, Joel $204,863
Hoffman, Thomas $204,635
Auer, Carol $204,629
Cooper, Laura $204,531
Eason-Watkins, Barbara $204,477
Bradbury, Gary $204,437
Mattingly, William $204,027
Gay, James $203,377
Perkins, Kim $203,213
Ward, Maria $203,192
Gonzalez, Janet $202,755
Hinton, Francis $202,389
Leman Mical, Alice $201,990
Yomtoob, Youssef $201,865
Gunnell, James $201,844
Zafiratos, Dr. Thomas $201,532
Nohelty, Kevin $201,445
Young, Christopher $201,198
Clark, Christine $200,974
Reynolds, Elizabeth $200,912
Niehaus, Gary $200,883
Cavallo, Jr., Louis $200,786
Brownlie, Janet $200,786
Shinners, Marie $200,723
Eddy, Thomas $200,693
Hewitt, Larry $200,682
Brown, Traci $200,653
Krause, Ronald $200,621
Bonner, Barbara $200,220
Martin, John $200,065
Wynn, Ronald $200,000
Rudig, Douglas $199,966
St Leger, Dennis $199,446
Bond, Nancy $199,437
And here they (top 200) are for 2008:
Districts for for 2008:
Codell, Neil C $411,511
Murray, Laura L $402,331
Gmitro, Henry A $348,113
Kelly, Dennis G $342,075
King, Eric A $340,267
McKanna, Robert A $327,596
Hager, Maureen L $317,268
Gallagher, James J $299,866
Fleming, Larry K $296,769
May, Loren D $290,352
Senters, Clyde $284,891
White, James W $284,040
Herrmann, Mary B $281,464
Dada, M Mohsin $276,728
Giannetti, Glen M $273,648
Mical, Gary E $272,032
Rafferty, Edward F $265,924
Daeschner, Stephen W $262,716
Harper, John R $261,321
Friedman, Mark R $258,344
Schewe, William C $258,238
Many, Thomas W $257,165
Eblen, David R $256,588
Palermo, Joseph A $254,377
Lueck, James P $253,990
Baldermann, John L $253,863
Brendel, Jerome E $253,238
Schlomann, Donald D $253,031
Joy, Donna M $252,241
Carmine, Joyce M $252,149
Doebert, Sandra L $250,739
Barshinger, Jack K $250,370
Buckner, J Kamala $249,367
Humphrey, Steven K $248,462
Pointer, Betty H $247,487
Fornero, George V $245,746
Van Clay, Mark $245,536
Nebor, Jon N $245,472
Rodgers, John M $242,965
Vogler-Corboy, Dale A $242,914
Hill, Gerald D $242,879
Milton, Walter $242,826
Schoffstall, Phillip W $241,403
Engler, Thomas D $241,374
Yonke, Linda L $240,989
Riebock, Ann K $240,618
Swanstrom, Paul $239,715
Wyllie, Lawrence A $238,292
Cleland, Janell A $236,916
Quinn, Martin R $236,816
Robbins, Kathryn J $236,493
Williams, Kathleen G $235,705
Porto, Joseph M $235,429
Batiste, Donaldo R $233,191
Kroeze, David J $232,324
Boyd, Alex $232,060
Kalita-Restko, Donna A $232,046
Rydland, James $232,016
Wahl, Nicholas D $231,788
Jerome, Sarah D $230,947
Schuler, David R $230,097
Davis, Blondean Y $230,000
Witherspoon, Eric A $229,929
Yomtoob, Youssef $229,773
Behlow, David L $229,225
Pryor, Sally A $228,911
Sass, Michael W $228,901
Welch, Michael J $228,209
Vieth, Linda J $227,948
Leis, Alan E $227,395
Martin, Dale F $226,293
Mink, Jon L $226,253
Wardzala, Edward J $225,169
Sobocinski, Philip L $225,080
Kurr, Gregory M $225,000
Clough, David L $225,000
Culver, Arthur R $225,000
Hales, Dave $225,000
Meissen, Michael J $225,000
Neale, Connie L $225,000
Wilson, Phyllis M $224,888
Thornton, Roger W $224,720
Mc Cormick, Charles H $223,939
Collins, Constance R $223,245
Beilfuss, Paul R $222,223
Lane, Bruce A $222,208
Madonia, Robert J $221,845
Raymond, Garry W $221,580
Kalinich, Kelley M $221,468
Hawk, Jill $221,443
Weninger, Attila J $220,751
Renner, Sandra L $220,720
Paraday, Troy A $220,378
Sorrick, Kenneth M $220,086
Vick, David A $219,395
Twadell, Eric L $218,773
Cook, Ralph J $218,401
Amadio, Thomas J $217,846
Swoboda, Joy A $217,515
Locigno, Michael J $216,471
Dart, Paul J $215,786
Stout, Frank E $215,257
Butts, John K $214,926
Taylor, Rick A $214,722
Goier, Renee S $214,629
Williams, Rudolph $214,305
Hunigan, Howard R $213,795
Jordan, William H $213,725
Thomas, Timothy L $213,245
Madden, Bernard W $213,012
Miller, Ronald R $212,520
Brown, Bruce R $212,032
Lechner, Raymond E $212,018
Sellers, Laura J $212,013
Arndt, Kenneth M $211,641
Bridges, Lela A $211,632
Eason-Watkins, Barbara J $211,502
Davis, Gloria J $211,234
Hernandez, Linda F $211,031
Mutchler, Kent D $210,985
Finger, Catherine $210,593
Blanche, James A $210,003
Perdue, John S $209,790
Mc Cord, Kathleen A $208,760
Michelini, Mark S $208,669
Albus, Allen J $208,183
Goers, Donald R $208,078
Young, William E $207,950
Benedetti, John N $207,684
Schwartz, Peggy P $207,558
Schilling, Craig A $207,451
Johnson, Warren L $207,421
Murphy, Hardy R $206,874
Foderaro, Kerry J $206,755
Williams, Creg E $206,512
Dada, Yasmine $205,285
Nielsen, Robert S $205,144
Miller, Danny L $205,119
Finck, Ricky E $204,980
McTague, Frances J $204,867
Sabatino, Joseph J $204,670
Handcock, Darryl R $204,223
Berger, Robert K $204,084
Cottle, Veronda S $203,957
Bowen, Jean A $203,660
Lupo, Robert J $203,080
Delp, William P $202,989
Byrne, John J $202,925
Ali, Brian M $202,490
Hinton, Francis H $202,390
Armanetti, Arleen G $201,997
Leonard, Thomas M $201,986
Briscoe, James J $201,738
Madden, Marilyn W $200,950
Krizic, Lynn S $200,882
Kendall, William K $200,586
Baule, Steven M $200,506
Drury, Richard $200,000
Kanzulak, Ronald J $199,497
Armbruster, Susan L $199,119
Prosise, Roger D $198,877
Quinn, Cheryl A $198,584
Booker, Wilber E $198,155
Ellis, Sandra K $197,686
Zimmermann, Pamela S $197,168
Westerhold, Jane L $196,427
Prince, John R $196,367
Edgecombe, Jason $196,071
Lee, Calvin D $196,070
Hamilton, Douglas C $196,000
Zafiratos, Dr. Thomas M $195,663
Griesbach, Steven M $195,296
Gatta, Nanciann L $194,197
Lamberson, Jonathan E $194,000
Roberts, Jerome $193,996
Houselog, Michael J $193,929
Mattingly, William J $193,921
Leahy, Thomas F $193,897
Schweers, Daniel R $193,468
Morris, Joel W $193,267
Niehaus, Gary C $193,157
Auer, Carol A $193,046
Brown, Traci J $192,936
Knutson, Brian G $192,696
Lindsay, Thomas S $192,581
Ricker, Timothy A $192,550
Kent, Jr., Charlie T $192,095
Tivador, Edward J $192,000
Hoffman, Thomas J $191,875
Fiegel, Craig A $191,711
Perkins, Kim M $191,711
Eddy, Thomas M $191,699
Rudig, Douglas W $191,391
Gonzalez, Janet E $191,375
Gay, James M $191,289
Romain, Bruce M $191,162
Matthews, Janice H $191,161
Bjurstrom, Ronald $190,883
Dietz, Gregory E $190,790
Sellers, David S $190,539
And here they (top 200) are for 2007:
Curley Mary M $385,379
Van Der Bogert Rebecca $374,496
Kelly Dennis G $356,621
Codell Neil C $343,345
Bultinck Howard J $342,184
Burns Kevin G $336,366
Murray Laura L $335,276
Gallagher James J $307,076
Catalani Gary T $306,000
Hager Maureen L $302,407
Friedman Mark R $297,356
Kanold Timothy D $292,166
Bridge Susan J $291,815
Gmitro Henry A $290,094
Polach Kathleen H $287,853
Fleming Larry K $281,148
Marks Salvo G $277,453
McGee Glenn W $273,235
Mc Kanna Robert A $271,570
Herrmann Mary B $270,317
May Loren D $262,322
Haley Julia J $261,523
Grace David F $257,921
Baldermann John L $257,474
Mical Gary E $256,819
White James W $256,661
Mc Mahon Patrick A $256,314
Cieply Charlotte H $255,311
Harper John R $252,780
Crouse Howard E $252,399
Grossi Diana L $252,167
Rafferty Edward F $250,872
Stein Roger D $248,734
Joy Donna M $247,295
Jandes Kenneth M $245,190
Senters Clyde $243,573
Palermo Joseph A $243,233
Schewe William C $242,672
Riebock Ann K $241,595
Wiers Lawrence W $240,816
Carmine Joyce M $238,501
Many Thomas W $235,083
Marks Linda R $235,048
Lueck James P $235,020
Mink Jon L $234,659
Amberg Eugene L $234,241
Boyd Alex $233,162
Ellis Lavonne M $230,212
Eblen David R $229,571
Nebor Jon N $229,303
Wyllie Lawrence A $229,105
Yomtoob Youssef $229,088
Wilhite Robert K $227,753
Zavagno Paul W $227,740
Logan Alf E $227,417
Murphy Hardy R $227,021
Schoffstall Phillip W $226,860
Thompson Dennis L $226,849
Batiste Donaldo R $226,318
Paulsen Arthur T $226,209
Swanstrom Paul $226,145
Dada M Mohsin $226,025
Gunther Vicki $225,217
Rudish Garry F $224,583
Jerome Sarah D $223,629
Hill Gerald D $223,339
Van Clay Mark $223,124
Vogler-Corboy Dale A $222,969
Griffith Harry D $222,643
Glenn Marianne P $222,333
Witherspoon Eric A $221,651
Crawford Cathlene A $220,974
Sobocinski Philip L $220,824
Fornero George V $220,751
Yonke Linda L $220,751
Porto Joseph M $220,253
Kroeze David J $220,210
Culver Arthur R $220,000
Davis Blondean Y $220,000
Neale Connie L $220,000
Clough David L $220,000
Pointer Betty H $219,536
Erwin Barbara F $219,371
Chapman Alan R $219,364
Clover Russell L $219,279
Pryor Sally A $219,264
King Eric A $218,846
Perdue John S $218,666
Leis Alan E $218,610
Giannetti Glenn M $218,431
Collins Constance R $217,400
Raymond Garry W $217,158
Martin Dale F $216,938
Beilfuss Paul R $216,766
Humphrey Steven K $216,126
Buckner J Kamala $216,096
Welch Patricia J $216,013
Brendel Jerome E $214,978
Kurr Gregory M $214,859
Blanche James A $214,530
Renner Sandra L $214,292
Sass Michael W $214,128
Sorrick Kenneth M $213,677
Knudsen Kristin J $213,512
Thornton Roger W $213,104
Wahlin Gayle R $211,828
Wahl Nicholas D $211,786
Ali Brian M $211,424
Meissen Michael J $211,317
Clark Virginia R $211,248
Schuler David R $210,176
Chilcote Ronald D $209,846
Morris Joel W $209,713
Tonelli Ernest J $208,982
Hawk Jill $208,907
Cottle Veronda S $208,581
Kamm Marlene S $208,226
Doebert Sandra L $207,581
Schlomann Donald D $207,394
Locigno Michael J $207,006
Hales Dave $206,300
Vick David A $206,223
Lane Bruce A $206,220
Cook Ralph J $206,039
Weninger Attila J $205,843
Arndt Kenneth M $205,677
Williams Rudolph $204,433
Behlow David L $204,226
Dart Paul J $203,575
Bridges Lela A $203,374
Karanovich Frances A $203,085
Robbins Kathryn J $203,084
Rydland James $202,472
Madonia Robert J $202,453
Hinton Francis H $202,390
Rogers Karen R $202,334
Engler Thomas D $202,313
McConahay Martin T $202,168
Gray Michael D $201,790
De Rosa Frank E $201,503
Finger Catherine $201,366
Williams Kathleen G $201,249
Barshinger Jack K $201,152
Butts John K $200,553
Hunigan Howard R $200,397
Kuper Susan A $200,177
Krosnjar Anne L $200,177
Brown Bruce R $199,914
Jordan William H $199,743
Jakicic Christine $199,486
Kanzulak Ronald J $199,436
Swoboda Joy A $199,080
Mc Cracken Merilee $198,647
Goier Renee S $198,046
Krizic Lynn S $197,957
Stoudt Timothy H $197,870
Ahlers William C $197,642
Lupo Robert J $197,640
Barker David J $197,518
Cleland Janell A $197,431
Miller Ronald R $196,920
Mc Cord Kathleen A $196,689
Cross Sharon E $196,391
Goers Donald R $196,300
Young William E $196,179
Vanderschoot Gerard $196,161
Helsel Dorothy J $195,967
Benedetti John N $195,928
Martindale Benjamin $195,826
Attaway George A $195,633
Finck Ricky E $195,456
Michelini Mark S $195,201
Kalinich Kelley M $194,867
Mc Cormick Charles H $194,790
Mutchler Kent D $194,631
Nielsen Robert S $194,536
Handcock Darryl R $193,339
Lee Gwendolyn $193,205
Davis Gloria J $193,157
Dada Yasmine $193,153
Palmere Patricia L $192,656
Stout Frank E $192,607
Wensch Thomas P $192,154
Schilling Craig A $192,121
McTague Frances J $191,913
Tinder Randolph L $191,731
Yeoman Donald R $191,700
Johnson Warren L $191,576
Armanetti Arleen G $191,466
Roberts Jerome $191,417
Rivera Dionnes $191,169
Cohen Charles L $191,158
Mardis Helen B $190,739
Cross Ruth M $190,498
Cronin Kevin C $190,453
Rudig Douglas W $190,423
Leman Reardon Alice $190,151
Nowakowski Bernard C $190,000
Condes-Zervakis Harriet $189,915
Wilson Phyllis M $189,881
And here they (top 200) are for 2006:
Murphy Brian J $766,372
Edwards Jeffrey S $559,315
Trimble Timothy J $533,679
Kolke Greg J $407,072
Catalani Gary T $380,227
Cordts - Barke Ginnell A $368,000
Bangser Henry S $356,500
Kunesh Karen T $356,258
Curley Mary M $321,149
Kelly Dennis G $317,226
Marks Linda R $316,874
Kanold Timothy D $292,938
Codell Neil C $286,208
Bultinck Howard J $285,137
Allen Rita M $282,047
Hager Maureen L $279,767
Murray Laura L $279,397
Burns Kevin G $277,927
Torchedlo Thomas A $266,478
Van Der Bogert Rebecca $265,922
Radakovich Michael L $261,451
Fleming Larry K $259,878
Alson Allan L $258,876
Wolf Boyce J $256,380
Baldermann John L $246,833
Marks Salvo G $246,468
McGee Glenn W $246,016
Gmitro Henry A $245,484
Bridge Susan J $244,617
May Loren D $244,153
Conley Cheryl A $243,051
Snider Charles S $242,770
Polach Kathleen H $242,569
Joy Donna M $242,446
Mical Gary E $242,284
Zalewski Eugene H $242,079
Olson Richard B $242,049
Berry Roberta L $240,523
Studinski Dennis A $237,465
Mc Mahon Patrick A $236,579
Gallagher James J $235,743
Johnson Lenore M $234,559
White James W $233,778
Rafferty Edward F $233,531
Yomtoob Youssef $230,240
Schewe William C $229,967
Eblen David R $229,660
Anderson Robert M $226,853
Mc Kanna Robert A $226,056
Boyd Alex $225,315
Alumbaugh John W $224,941
Humphrey Steven K $224,704
King Eric A $224,681
Van Clay Mark $223,671
Griffith Harry D $222,643
Lorenz John A $222,628
Cunneen James H $222,250
Hill Gerald D $221,709
Mink Jon L $221,416
Wyllie Lawrence A $220,815
Weninger Attila J $218,497
Murphy Hardy R $218,492
Simon Alan E $218,443
Haley Julia J $217,935
Grossi Diana L $217,698
Herrmann Mary B $217,266
Lueck James P $216,435
Riebock Ann K $215,332
Martin Denise R $215,274
Many Thomas W $215,082
Grace David F $214,934
Collins Constance R $214,925
Stein Roger D $214,238
Thompson Dennis L $214,128
Crouse Howard E $214,024
Swanstrom Paul $213,923
Fitzgerald Dorothea R $213,407
Sorrick Kenneth M $212,912
McPherson Elmer B $212,170
Schoffstall Phillip W $212,019
Gough Robert W $211,849
Bever Thomas L $211,747
Ellis Kathleen $211,472
Kroeze David J $210,729
Leis Alan E $210,624
Maier Richard A $210,226
Culver Arthur R $210,000
Davis Blondean Y $210,000
Neale Connie L $210,000
Erwin Barbara F $210,000
Clough David L $210,000
Martin Dale F $210,000
Sass Michael W $209,840
Brendel Jerome E $208,781
Palermo Joseph A $208,773
Clover Russell L $208,267
Ranquist Nancy B $207,446
Porto Joseph M $207,297
Pryor Sally A $206,998
Beilfuss Paul R $206,816
Vogler-Corboy Dale A $206,466
Ali Brian M $206,012
Cook Ralph J $205,996
Perdue John S $205,918
Gilchrist Kelvin K $205,705
Fields Stanley S $205,627
Friedman Mark R $205,590
Hales Dave $205,000
Coleman Geraldine $204,729
Blanche James A $204,360
Buckner J K $204,071
Wiers Lawrence W $203,585
Renner Sandra L $203,379
Gallenberger Catarina $203,121
Hinton Francis H $202,390
Arndt Kenneth M $202,383
Maier Diane L $202,017
Bynum Michael T $201,736
Schuler David R $201,597
Logan Alf E $201,096
Lamberson Jonathan E $200,791
Delp William P $200,701
Thornton Roger W $200,331
Senters Clyde $199,297
Sobocinski Philip L $198,494
Barshinger Jack K $198,181
Chilcote Ronald D $198,176
Doebert Sandra L $197,696
Wahl Nicholas D $197,217
Branch William B $196,962
Kanzulak Ronald J $196,878
Nebor Jon N $196,601
Vick David A $196,361
Pointer Betty H $196,267
Lane Bruce A $196,203
Cromer Dennis J $196,104
Hawk Jill $195,999
Engler Thomas D $195,789
Harper John R $195,469
Hunigan Howard R $195,131
Clark Stephen B $195,059
Knudsen Kristin J $194,420
Kuper Raymond J $194,342
Amberg Eugene L $194,341
Baba Thomas L $194,144
Kamm Marlene S $194,119
Mc Kinzie Frank L $194,083
Bridges Lela A $193,933
Finger Catherine $193,157
Robbins Kathryn J $193,072
Carpenter Stephanie W $192,581
Williams Kathleen G $191,994
Wilhite Robert K $191,992
Zavagno Paul W $191,916
Swoboda Joy A $191,846
Jacoby Michael A $191,737
Yeoman Donald R $191,700
Mc Cracken Merilee $191,603
Michelini Mark S $191,232
Taylor Rick A $190,822
Behlow David L $190,756
Vaughan James W $190,215
Jumbeck Bernard J $190,151
Tonelli Ernest J $190,060
Tivador Edward J $189,943
Gunther Vicki $189,805
Cottle Veronda S $189,109
Stoudt Timothy H $188,951
Giannetti Glenn M $188,742
Scaletta Lawrence P $188,664
Jandes Kenneth M $188,368
Miller Ronald R $188,270
Hendriksen Kenneth C $187,900
Rudish Garry F $187,152
Raymond Garry W $186,911
Barker David J $186,708
Nielsen Robert S $186,534
Butts John K $186,450
Martindale Benjamin $186,096
Brown Bruce R $186,060
Jordan William H $185,855
Struck John J $185,603
Attaway George A $185,476
Goier Renee S $185,386
Crawford Cathlene A $185,366
Young William E $185,075
Thomas Timothy L $185,063
Metling Timothy J $184,947
Briscoe James J $184,781
Helsel Dorothy J $184,773
Madonia Robert J $184,753
Johnson Warren L $184,719
Dada M Mohsin $184,466
Bauer Bruce A $184,200
Cronin Kevin C $184,060
Morris Joel W $183,995
Leensvaart William J $183,925
Cave Edward E $183,779
Du Clos Carol A $183,775
Madden Bernard W $183,682
And here they (top 200) are for 2005:
Hintz James $361,146
Bangser Henry S $345,600
Hyland Timothy F. $321,158
Catalani Gary $311,075
Vanderbogert M R $293,167
Conti Dennis R $291,263
Ennis Elizabeth A $288,512
Rossi Harry $278,168
Burns Kevin G $276,617
Lamberson Jonathan $273,440
Baskin Lawrence M $271,667
Curley Mary $267,624
Marks Linda $266,461
Strande Robert $257,491
Murray Laura $257,030
Kanold Timothy $252,740
Ryan Thomas $251,947
Eagle Sherry $250,907
Aksamit Edward F $250,822
Kelly Dennis G $249,366
Crocker Gregg $247,157
Hager Maureen $245,257
Peterson David $244,840
Fagan John $244,361
Alson Allan L $242,889
Mcgee Glenn W $242,772
Pekoe Lawrence $242,768
Rauscher W Christine $240,999
Mills Michael E $239,249
Codell Neil C $238,578
Logan Alf E $238,094
Bultinck Howard J $237,614
Miller Roger $237,116
Galloway Daniel $233,518
Erwin Barbara $231,593
Mical Gary $228,571
Armour Nelson $228,225
Herrmann Mary B $227,125
Bridge Susan $226,044
Boyd Jr Alex $225,315
Bonnette David J $224,889
Wyllie Lawrence A $222,909
Snider C Steven $222,729
Griffith Harry D $222,643
Jackson Gregory T $221,286
Benjamin Susan J $220,803
Mcmahon Patrick A $219,811
Murphy Hardy R $218,953
Krause William R $218,810
Van Clay Mark $217,220
Schewe William C $216,994
Wojtena Joseph $216,456
Smith David H $216,336
Culver Arthur R $216,320
Fleming Larry $216,303
Duncan Arne S. $216,181
Martin Dale $216,117
Radakovich Michael $215,049
Clinkert Robert $214,908
Humphrey Steven K $214,258
Thompson Dennis L $213,186
Wolf Boyce J $212,711
Cook Ralph J $212,522
Mckanna Robert A $212,049
May Loren $211,968
Anderson Kurtis $211,310
Rafferty Jr Edward F $210,725
Reardon Roger D $210,661
Daker Lawrence P $209,963
White James $209,776
Cunneen James H $209,670
Mink Jon $208,893
Franken Christopher $208,781
Hill Gerald D $208,748
Baldermann John L $208,583
Blake Kent $208,402
Gustafson James $208,108
Crouse Howard $207,466
Gmitro Henry $207,223
Lueck J Peter $207,195
Paziotopoulos James $207,052
Studinski Dennis $206,618
Berry Roberta $206,593
Polzin James $205,906
Friedman Mark $205,589
Neale Connie $205,000
Clough David L $205,000
Hales Dave $205,000
Davis Blondean Y $204,946
Coleman Geraldine $204,728
Marks Salvo G $204,615
Carroll Rosemarie $204,522
Fields Stanley S $204,303
Leis Alan $203,873
Thornton Roger W $203,851
Crawford Cathlene $202,435
Gilchrist Kelvin K $202,351
Torchedlo Thomas A $202,302
Fitzgerald Dorothea $202,120
Joy Donna C $202,038
Zito Marianne T $201,958
Schoffstall Phillip W $201,923
Brendel Jerome E $201,872
Olson Richard B $201,707
Swanstrom Paul $201,268
Kroeze David J $200,769
Duffy Owen James $200,731
Yeggy Gerry A $200,293
Knudsen Kristin J $199,842
Kurth James C $199,482
Gallagher James $199,356
Cusack Thomas $199,346
Pryor Sally A $198,987
Caruso Janice A $198,972
Delp William P $198,633
Sobocinski Philip $198,494
King Eric A. $198,218
Murphy Linda $197,674
Sass Michael $197,500
Horler Barbara H $196,707
Many Thomas $196,597
Ahern Patrick J $196,081
Martin Denise $196,057
Keegan Peter C $195,798
Frazier Bryan Thomas $194,581
Mc Collum Michael $194,018
Muir James O $193,757
Porto Joseph M $193,427
Hebert Elizabeth $193,350
Taccona Pamela $192,843
Vick David $192,679
Worrell Gregg L $192,492
Riebock Ann K $192,464
Zalewski Eugene H $192,307
Yomtoob Youssef $191,831
Patterson Paul $191,590
Leathem Paul L $191,519
Chinino Michael J $191,392
Maki Thomas A $191,159
Doebert Sandra L. $190,171
Miller Marilyn $190,135
Glassner Mary Ann $190,093
Tivador Edward J $189,942
Babington William $189,020
Simon Alan $189,019
Weninger Attila J $188,656
Mertz Shirley A $188,629
Huchthausen Joan $188,492
Racz Stephen A $188,392
Schaffner Theodore $188,298
Arndt Kenneth $188,033
Behlow David L $187,959
Hammon Robert L $187,915
Omalley Paula A $187,566
Buckner Kamala J $187,552
Eblen David R $187,239
Brown Bruce $187,166
Mansfield Edward V $187,091
Noland G Anne $186,948
Miller Ronald R $186,835
Brown Traci J $186,791
Tinley Candace R $186,750
Stein Roger D $186,446
Chilcote Ronald D $186,346
Kamm Marlene S $186,045
Dresen Dennis P $185,930
Millies Palma S $185,930
Lane Bruce $185,782
Struck John J $185,602
Nebor Jon N $185,481
Butts John $185,314
Sawyer Iii John $184,995
Schlender Joseph F $184,878
Martin Sandra $184,615
Collins Constance $184,603
Feuerborn James P $184,528
Conry Frank $184,137
Knutson Brian G $184,108
Conley Cheryl A $184,066
Partridge Raymond $184,028
Deppert Patricia $183,887
Cave Edward $183,779
Mcgraw John $183,600
Maier Richard A $183,453
Kuper Raymond J $183,348
Williams Kathleen G. $183,338
Pointer Betty $183,059
Alumbaugh John W $182,839
Gallenberger Catarina $182,610
Ali Brian M $182,586
Vogler Dale Ann $182,352
Clover Russell L $182,293
Benedetti John N $181,899
Amberg Eugene L $181,625
Johnson Joel D $181,316
Lupo Robert $180,995
Lorenz John A $180,977
Haley Julia James $180,814
Timson George $180,681
Renner William $180,662
Look it up, fucktard.
Or is that you, Timmy? Well, if so, fuck you, you lying, bribing, parasitical thief.
Mr Mouse, where do you get your info from? Substantiate, please.
A Google search on your info only revealed copies in forums, fishy...
The information comes from the Teacher Service Record (TSR) compiled/maintained/reported/put together/etc. by the Illinois State Board of Education based on information reported to the ISBE (Illinois State Board of Education) by the individual school districts.
Yearly TSRs are available in Microsoft Excel format at the ISBE's website at:
http://www.isbe.state.il.us/research/htmls/teacher_service_record.htm
(Warning: They are fairly large files in a newer Excel format. If you have an older version of Excel or have trouble opening the file, you might try OpenOffice, which seems to parse the files just fine. For those that don't feel like screwing with it, online versions can be found, for example, at:
http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php
Is the Family Taxpayers' data accurate? Well, here's what Park Ridge-Niles School District 64 themselves have to say at their official school district website:
http://d64.e2services.net/staff/assmt.html
In a nutshell, Champion.org (Family Taxpayers) is a reliable source of individual salary data for FY2005 (school year 2004/05) and FY2004. However, individual salary data is inaccurate for FY2003, FY2002, and earlier. Compensation figures reported for about two-thirds of the staff are understated by 1-5% up to 10% or more. This creates a bias toward overstating compensation growth from those and earlier years.
Obviously, SD64 has not updated their website in a while, but the data spot checks accurate for subsequent years.
Good enough for you?
Only one word needed to refute your list:
Source?
The information comes from the Teacher Service Record (TSR) compiled/maintained/reported/put together/etc. by the Illinois State Board of Education based on information reported to the ISBE (Illinois State Board of Education) by the individual school districts.
Yearly TSRs are available in Microsoft Excel format at the ISBE's website at:
http://www.isbe.state.il.us/research/htmls/teacher_service_record.htm
(Warning: They are fairly large files in a newer Excel format. If you have an older version of Excel or have trouble opening the file, you might try OpenOffice, which seems to parse the files just fine. For those that don't feel like screwing with it, online versions can be found, for example, at:
http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php
Is the Family Taxpayers' data accurate? Well, here's what Park Ridge-Niles School District 64 themselves have to say at their official school district website:
http://d64.e2services.net/staff/assmt.html
In a nutshell, Champion.org (Family Taxpayers) is a reliable source of individual salary data for FY2005 (school year 2004/05) and FY2004. However, individual salary data is inaccurate for FY2003, FY2002, and earlier. Compensation figures reported for about two-thirds of the staff are understated by 1-5% up to 10% or more. This creates a bias toward overstating compensation growth from those and earlier years.
Obviously, SD64 has not updated their website in a while, but the data spot checks accurate for subsequent years.
Good enough for you?
The information comes from the Teacher Service Record (TSR) compiled/maintained/reported/put together/etc. by the Illinois State Board of Education based on information reported to the ISBE (Illinois State Board of Education) by the individual school districts.
Yearly TSRs are available in Microsoft Excel format at the ISBE's website at:
http://www.isbe.state.il.us/research/htmls/teacher_service_record.htm
(Warning: They are fairly large files in a newer Excel format. If you have an older version of Excel or have trouble opening the file, you might try OpenOffice, which seems to parse the files just fine. For those that don't feel like screwing with it, online versions can be found, for example, at:
http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php
Is the Family Taxpayers' data accurate? Well, here's what Park Ridge-Niles School District 64 themselves have to say at their official school district website:
http://d64.e2services.net/staff/assmt.html
In a nutshell, Champion.org (Family Taxpayers) is a reliable source of individual salary data for FY2005 (school year 2004/05) and FY2004. However, individual salary data is inaccurate for FY2003, FY2002, and earlier. Compensation figures reported for about two-thirds of the staff are understated by 1-5% up to 10% or more. This creates a bias toward overstating compensation growth from those and earlier years.
Obviously, SD64 has not updated their website in a while, but the data spot checks accurate for subsequent years.
Good enough for you?
Haha MrMouse who can believe any of your poisonous make believe fiction?
A $600,000 p.a. High School Teacher? Links to a federal, state or news site please or it never happened except in your sick imagination.
Attack the public sector to strengthen the hands of the corporations and the billionaire kleptocrats who have been outsourcing jobs and GDP from the US for decades.
You'd be better off targeting Blankfein, Dimon and Fuld don't you think?
The trolls who espouse extreme right-wing lies happily go undetected on this site.
The information comes from the Teacher Service Record (TSR) compiled/maintained/reported/put together/etc. by the Illinois State Board of Education based on information reported to the ISBE (Illinois State Board of Education) by the individual school districts.
Yearly TSRs are available in Microsoft Excel format at the ISBE's website at:
http://www.isbe.state.il.us/research/htmls/teacher_service_record.htm
(Warning: They are fairly large files in a newer Excel format. If you have an older version of Excel or have trouble opening the file, you might try OpenOffice, which seems to parse the files just fine. For those that don't feel like screwing with it, online versions can be found, for example, at:
http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php
Is the Family Taxpayers' data accurate? Well, here's what Park Ridge-Niles School District 64 themselves have to say at their official school district website:
http://d64.e2services.net/staff/assmt.html
In a nutshell, Champion.org (Family Taxpayers) is a reliable source of individual salary data for FY2005 (school year 2004/05) and FY2004. However, individual salary data is inaccurate for FY2003, FY2002, and earlier. Compensation figures reported for about two-thirds of the staff are understated by 1-5% up to 10% or more. This creates a bias toward overstating compensation growth from those and earlier years.
Obviously, SD64 has not updated their website in a while, but the data spot checks accurate for subsequent years.
Good enough for you?
Ah, yes. The Hegelian dialectic.
Wonderful. Just fucking great.
There's a reason why my study of western philosophy collapsed after Kant (although I did read Gurdjief [sp?] and Nietzsche [sp?] and Twain and somebody else. I forget.).
Here. Let me finish your thought ...
1. So, do you think OJ killed his wife and Ron Goldman, OR do you think the LAPD planted evidence?
2. So, are you for the spotted owl, OR do you want to cut down all the trees, poison all the water, and watch babies die of hunger?
I mean, wtf did I ever write or say (or think, for you clairvoyants out there) that even intimates that I like or approve of or support or advocate or ?? of anything Wall Street?
No. I loathe them. Detest them. I hate 'em. I hate 'em just as much as I do the 'public employee' racket, and for exactly the same reasons.
Exactly the same reasons.
But Wall Street actually has one up on the SEIU and AFSCME: They don't come to my house and hold a gun to my head periodically throughout the year. (Oh, yeah, to be sure, I went to the grocery store and gas station yesterday, and I do understand the crime they perpetrate on me and everyone else daily, but you know? I could grow my own if I had to. But just try growing your own [insert 'public employee demand here]. Good luck with that.)
So no links then to any actual evidence on your claims of outrageous public sector payrates? Just more make believe?
You really think that there is a high school teacher out earning over $600,000 per year i.e. half again as much as POTUS earns?
Dude where's my pot?
I do not personally know, nor have I seen any kind of proof or supporting evidence re Public sector wages being outrageous beyond what I have myself made during my periods of working for the government, and those people I am close to who have worked for the government, and not a single one of them has ever made enough with or without benefits to be considered more than just middle class, and those were the very few at the top of state government. I have a brother that is the Auditor-Controller in one of California's larger counties, he makes less than 125K a year, and even the cap for the post is 175. For such a responsible position requiring degrees, experience, and a CPA at minimum that is just not a lot of money.
I worked as a financial analyst in the state Medicaid program calculating reimbursement rates for nursing homes and after three years got all the way up to 32,000 per year. My sister made more after 26 years at the local Safeway. I was a ranger in a California state park for a couple of years after the service in the 80's and granted I was not permanent but I made less than $6 per hour. I was a ward clerk at the San Diego VA hospital and made 16k a year. I almost fucking starved and did not even make enough to own a car, that was 91. But I paid a larger percentage of my income into taxes than Warren Buffet does. I was an anaylist for a few months working at Defense Finance and Accounting Service for under 20k and just could not afford to keep working there. I knew a guy that ran the local California EDD (unemployment office) in my hometown, 40k a year. As a teen in the 70's I was taken in by the guy that went on to be the county school superintendent in my home county in California, he was in that post for two years and never made more than 80 grand per year. As a teacher for 31 years he was making 66k at retirement.
The VAST majority of government employees are hard working UNDERPAID and reviled when they should be thanked for their effort, and while we do occasionally read about certain officials being overpaid, like those guys in Bell California that had the ability to grant their own salaries and boy did they ever, these are specific cases of corruption which do eventually get caught out. And there are also a few types of positions that require degrees with 8 or more years of college that we might agree sound overpaid (Librarians for example) but 8+ years of college leaves most of them with a lot of debt that has to be serviced over a long era of their lives.
I would like to see compensation in the public sector rationalized and fair, nobody working for any government at any level doing any type of work should be living in or even close to poverty, and nobody in government service at any level should be in what we call the investor class, at least not from government salaries, possibly excepting doctors that agree to work for the government who should make 120-220k per year, if they prefer the private sector they can go for it. For my own part all I ever wanted was to make enough that I have a sense of financial security, I do not need to be rich, middle class is fine by me, I also enjoy serving people, serving the USA, but it has never served me back and I no longer would consider government employment simply because it does not pay well enough nor is it "secure."
By the way, you want sources? Here is a state published website for California that now compiles and posts the wages and salaries for all state, county, and local, as well as elected officials, it is searchable and put out by the California Comproller's office in the wake of that City of Bell scandal: http://lgcr.sco.ca.gov/
This is what it means to document sources.
To my critics on this thread:
It is clear that, individually, you are in fact the delusional fuctards you accuse me of being.
Even worse, though, is that collectively, your abject ignorance in the voting booth is what is destroying our nation.
You owe me an apology, which I will forego if you promise never to vote again, and never to open your fucking mouths again about a subject that you know absolutely nothing about other than the lies and talking points from public employee unions and their bought politicians promulgated by their running dogs in the media.
Don't take it personally or you won't make it at fight club.
I just broke the first and second rule to clue you in: you don't talk about fight club.
It does indeed look like you have the goods, and you just know some of them are taking early retirement, the pension, then getting another job, elsewhere. More dignity to let your references and data speak for themselves, then someone like me comes along and tells everyone they owe you the apology (they do). And if "I" don't come along, you know you are right, why the fuck you need our validation?
Few more beatings and your skin will toughen up.
I loves me a man with the GOODS.
You keep truth telling MMP.
The information comes from the Teacher Service Record (TSR) compiled/maintained/reported/put together/etc. by the Illinois State Board of Education based on information reported to the ISBE (Illinois State Board of Education) by the individual school districts.
Yearly TSRs are available in Microsoft Excel format at the ISBE's website at:
http://www.isbe.state.il.us/research/htmls/teacher_service_record.htm
(Warning: They are fairly large files in a newer Excel format. If you have an older version of Excel or have trouble opening the file, you might try OpenOffice, which seems to parse the files just fine. For those that don't feel like screwing with it, online versions can be found, for example, at:
http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php
Is the Family Taxpayers' data accurate? Well, here's what Park Ridge-Niles School District 64 themselves have to say at their official school district website:
http://d64.e2services.net/staff/assmt.html
In a nutshell, Champion.org (Family Taxpayers) is a reliable source of individual salary data for FY2005 (school year 2004/05) and FY2004. However, individual salary data is inaccurate for FY2003, FY2002, and earlier. Compensation figures reported for about two-thirds of the staff are understated by 1-5% up to 10% or more. This creates a bias toward overstating compensation growth from those and earlier years.
Obviously, SD64 has not updated their website in a while, but the data spot checks accurate for subsequent years.
Good enough for you?
Your ability to alienate every single reader here means you no longer have to support any of the claims you make; nobody will be reading them anyway! Fucktard. By the way, I was not going to vote in 2012 but just for you I am going to register and vote for Obama.
You are undoubtedly correct that my gratuitously quarrelsome style will be off putting to some, maybe many. Which is kinda stupid, maybe. Or maybe not. I discovered nearly two decades ago that there is absolutely nothing whatsoever to be gained by trying to reason with the kind of person who thinks that school teachers are underpaid, or fairly paid, or, well, just about anything other than grotesquely and horrifically overpaid, and, moreover, that they have obtained their unfair and abusive advantage through aught but bribery and fraud.
Either way, though, at least I have good reading comprehension and logical thinking skills, which is more than can be said about you; to wit: Mine are not "claims." Mine are statements of fact. Q.E.D.
MsCreant is right ... my skin is starting to toughen up. Thanks, and keep it coming.
p.s. About as close to a consensus as I have ever seen develop in a forum such as this (wildly diverging points of view, politics, and philosophies) is that we need a reset. To bring this about, we need a collapse. To ensure a collapse, we need one such as Obama. Oh, sure. Perry, Pawlenty, Romney ... yeah, they'd do, too, but they wouldn't be nearly as much fun and probably would take a lot longer, so, yes, please, please vote for Obama. I know I should quit here while I'm ahead, but I just gotta ask: Why the fuck would you make such an important decision (to vote or not to vote; to vote for Ron Paul or not to vote for Ron Paul, etc.) based on some internet vitriol by - for all you know - Dick Cheney? Or Sarah Palin? Don't I sound a bit like Dick Army? Or Todd or Bristol Palin? C'mon, man, think for yourself. How do you know I am not some psyops operation by Hugo Chavez from Planet O to get you to vote for my buddy, Obamama? Hah. You're playing right into my hands. Sucker.
I just figured you were.
Here is a link to Pennsylvania's current school salaries, posted under the PA Open Records law:
http://www.openpagov.org/k12_payroll.asp
The highest of the bunch is $325,000 for a Superintendent level position. The highest educator position is down at $146,088.
Still pretty high; but the vast majority are of course well below these levels.
It's not the salaries so much...(I would never want to do those jobs); it's the lifetime benefits that get people, I think. I don't mind paying you when you're productive and actively educating the kids. I do have a problem with you retiring in 35 years at age 57; and I'm still paying you 35 years later at age 92. A big problem, actually.
Notice: "Salary."
Does not include pensions, medical, housing allowances, car allowance, cellphones, private chefs, and personal watercraft. (Even my Illinois list does not include school district contributions for health care benefits.) To say nothing of the fact that theirs is but a part-time job.
But let us for the nonce disregard the truly anomalous figures - say, those over four hundred thousand dollars (undoubtedly the result of particularly creative or imaginative pension spiking schemes) - and consider just those $150,000 to quarter million dollar payments.
That is still a lot of fucking money. A whole fucking hell of a lot of fucking money. In fact, to put it in perspective, recall that (per post #1557693, above):
"From 2008 data (the most recent I could find) the cut-offs are
top 10% - $113,799
top 5% - $159,619
top 1% - $380,354"
Is it not simply downright wrong, immoral, and evil that untold thousands? tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands? millions?!? of these public employee racketeers should be in the top 10, 5, and 1% of income, especially given that all of these goodies were procured by bribery and fraud, and by threat of force and violence? Adding insult to injury is the fact that we get so little for our money. Face it, our schools suck. Just plain suck. (At least judging by results.)
They are so bad that the entire education cartel itself is dedicated not to teaching, but to self-enrichment and to concealing just how fucking bad they suck (Here. Start here):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/24/atlanta-schools-41-named-_n_908...
Just wrong. They are sucking us dry, folks. There are over 18000 Los Angeles County employees making over $100,000 per year.
Worse than wrong. This is crazy.
Sustainable? No, but who cares? Even if it was, it still would be wrong.
Good business? WTF do we get for all this money? Answer: Busybodies who want to tell us what plants we can grow in our front yards and threaten to shoot and/or jail us if we disagree.
Billions upon billions upon billions for a war on drugs, and yet an inmate at San Quinton or Pelican Bay can still buy heroin. Or a student at an Atlanta elementary school (maybe from a teacher).
And exactly what the fuck are we doing in Libya? Or is that Derek Jeter's doing?
I am sure that I am about to violate some fight club rule or have the SWAT team materialize at the front door. (Ever see that animated gif of the guy getting increasingly hysterical at the keyboard until his eyes pop out and his head is rendered a bloody mush? Yep. That's me. I modeled that.)
All you apologists for the public employee racketeers are either one of them; viz., greedy, lying, evil, thieving motherfuckers, or just plain stupid beyond measure. Albert Einstein once quipped: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
It is not :either you are for the gvt or you are for the corporations. That is a false dichotomy. You would not even have corporations without gvt. Both gvt and coporations are imaginary contructs in order to justify the people who act in their names to do immoral things, like coercion.
"I do X in the name of Y and you can not do X in your own name", it is just religion all over again.
Nice catch.
Nicely put. Concise too.
I won't get too far into not feeling bad for retards who get paid to screw up my life, the expect to retire young high on the hog while double dipping (if they find that their skill and work ethic will even lot them hold a real job, like flipping burgers or mounting tires), but....
They won't lose shit in the markets. You can't since their plans are already not funded -- no money in the markets to lose, just a promise in a filing cabinet someplace. Just like SS.
And best of all, the govenment did this to themselves!
For those of us who sold all their stock and keep gold & cash, a new crash is mearly entertainment and a possible new entry point.
Entertainment to you. (Even more) massive unemployment to everyone else.
Sadly it won't be long before it's "every man for theirself in this land we be gunnin'"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO62em6iZag
what does that even mean?
if you cant speak gansta! you will hate learning spanish! as you whitey are about to be the minority in America!
Aztlan Bitchez!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkAP_M4ZAM
Well somebody must own Apple and Microsoft stocks, other than WS shills. I can't believe they're 90% owned by the happy few!
On the last point about those who exited the stock market not caring if it crashes. If Bernake/banksters, Federal Government and the corporiate fascists gets their way then they you will make you care, that is if your holding dollars. Stock market up=inflation, stock market down=devaluation. End result is essentially the same. It's a hostage situation.
Uh oh... according to my calculations based on this chart, WWIII will start on Nov 16, 2015.
HA! Good, that's what I mean.
Classic!
Love your work Charles. You do seem to implicitly assume the Fed won't step in again....and again...and again. A big potential difference between then and now. But you've crystalized a thought in my mind...that the Fed does not serve the country as a whole. Not that it wasn't clear before, but I hadn't thought of this addl angle before.
Nice sarcasm, I thought I was good.
Raymond K Hassel
We all know the old saw about "don't fight the Fed". Ask Leo, in case you might have missed it.
However, check the address of the Fed. The Fed is only as strong as the U.S. economy.
It is not like the Fed is out of options. But they are trying to put fresh blood in a dead horse.
I don't know, this seems like a very naive piece. I also hate those "it looks just like 1907" type articles. "The only difference.." part was hilarious. Add, "we were on the gold standard at the time" and you'll have me pissing myself.
Yup, a stock market crash won't hurt anybody, never has, especially the poor.
check out this poll on fox
http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/poll/here-is-the-gretawire-iowa-stra...
Oh look. Ron Paul continuing his domination in polls that dont matter. It really casts this country in a bad light when telling the truth makes you unelectable.
near as i can tell, its a fairly worldwide concept
you must lie to get elected
if you can name a country where the leadership is telling strictly the truth....ah hell, why not....i'll suck your dick
yep, i'll suck it right off
suckity suck suck suck the motherfucker right off, and gulp down the result
my confidence you cant produce this mythical country is supreme
Ha. True enough. Honesty is for losers and comedians.
http://www.gov.nu/wb/
Gulp!
absynthe minded is the name of my getaway camp
now i gotta rename the sucker
I think the whole 2008 vote was rigged. Ron Paul consistently got WAY more votes than anyone else on every informal internet pole I ever saw. I use AOL, and even on AOL, Paul always buried anyone else. Further, Jason Hommel made a fascinating comment after the election. He lives in a small northern California county, traditionally "red," and said that many of his friends voted for Paul, and his county is full of libertarians. Yet, when the election results came out, Paul and Obama each got roughly the same percentage of votes in his county, as in the "blue" California costal cities. He flatly stated that the elections were rigged. I agree. I think we are way more screwed than we realize.
Ron Paul is waaay ahead of everyone else on Fox's informal GOP Debate Poll:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/11/who-won-gop-debate/?intcmp=obn...
RP GOP Debate highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdGsPioLLvQ&feature=related
Ron Paul Speaks w/o a Teleprompter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEtS5r3REEY&feature=relmfu
Don't know when they started rigging elections but it has been obvious since 2000. Everyone knew the presidential election was a farce especially in Florida but the Supreme Court swept it under the rug.
It seems when voting machines came in, elections went funny. For the first time it was possible for a candidate to be behind in the polls right up to election day, win the election, and then be behind in the polls right afterwards.
I had a rant on thiis yesterday. Ever since computers started being used for HFT, voting, and weapons systems and you name what else, assholes have been able to manipulate them at warp speed for their personal gain. Love chatting with you all on here and all but if I could snap my fingers and make computers disappear, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
the Sun may be snapping soon.
Here in my small and close county, we did the same thing around Ross Perot. Everyone voted for him, practically speaking. He showd under 5% on the polls though. Obviously, obviously utterly rigged. I'm sure the dems and pubs laughed while they tossed those ballots in the trash -- he didn't have his own poll watchers. So "the turnout was real low" even though for the first time, there were long lines. Yeah.
Now its even easier -- touch screen windows voting machines are trivial to hack in seconds. Or just the machine that totals those up. A few keystrokes and mickey mouse is president. Now where is Anon when you need them?
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
Hell, if you tell the truth you're lucky if you can even be allowed in debates. Have you seen Gary Johnson in any of them? The guy's a two term governor of New Mexico with positions very similar to Ron Paul's and with executive experience but he can't even get in the door. If they could keep Ron Paul from getting any hearing at all they'd do that, too.
I like Ron Paul as a person. I got to shake his hand and chat with him a little and he comes across as a decent warm-hearted person. And I also like how he fights for the Constitution. But if I had a choice between him and Nader, I'd pick Nader any day. I think Paul has appeal because he is not corrupt, which is a 7-sigma event in American politics. I will never not vote for Nader again. No more of this crap about not wasting your vote!
Nader is an obvious liar, manipulator and hypocrite. I found this out by reading his books and listening to his statements. It seems I am the only person in North America who has actually read his bullshit because everyone else thinks he's great.
you are one of at least two
and boom goes the rigged truck.....
Interesting, the bottom is expected to be Jan 18th, 2013. The inauguration of a new (GOP) President, perhaps?
I think this guy has the potential to be the new Graham Summers.
Just add something about free reports.
So, CHS, can you think of any negative effects other than disappearing wealth effect on the bottom 90%?
You don't need to own stock to be affected by a drop in share price; ask the people walking out of Bank of Lynching America CountryWide carrying boxes for a clue if you're still bereft of one yourself.
D'accord snowball777 and others. This article misses important karmatic effects. A crash indicates people / institutions going to cash which means fear, retraction, delfation, horns being pulled back, lack of capitalization for corps to expand with and with which to hire people and perform R&D. The circle turns into a spiral, adding more pullbacks cutbacks and hoarding. Winter sets in. A crash hurts anyone not idependently wealthy cashwise or else so poor it all occurs beyond them. The average pink-collar schmuck such as myself has few ports to hide in; being out of debt is one of them.
It's always amusing to see someone spout crap that has been demonstrably proven false in both economic theory and experiential praxis.
i've made charles' very point several times at zh. and if you think about it, tarp and the stimulus (zh has made this point as well many times) were designed to bail out the very top 10 percent that charles mentions, too.
It never was my recession, and that goes for most people I know. Stocks? What are those? 401K? Ha! I'm a low wage worker, and I have very few material desires, so most of my money goes into savings (Cash or PM's) Other than that, I got livestock and veggies to worry about. Screw the dow, so long as I have eggs, meat, and taters rolling in, I'm good to go.
You're a worker, ergo you care. If you own the livestock and land for the veggies outright, then perhaps you don't.
Yep. And if the system goes kablooey, how long will the man in the suit keep making trips way out to BFE to collect his $150 yearly taxes? I bet I have the cash to cover them longer than they'd have the gas to drive out and get them, in the event of a total market collapse.
How are those property taxes working out for you?
See above.
I assure you that insurance companies and pension funds would care - alot!
Because there is no yield left anywhere in fixed income - their traditional area of investment - more and more pension funds and insurance companies have taken on much higher stock market exposure.
This is all true, but look at the little note on the chart: "The 'Rich Man's Panic of 1907' leads eventually to the passage of the Federal Reserve Act in December, 1913." In other words, the "Rich Man" gets skinned in 1907, and within 5 years, the ENTIRE financial/economic system of the United States is transformed to perennially protect those Rich Men (aka, Money Masters).
Like today, it was true 100 years ago that most people had very little skin in the stock market game; in fact, the average man's involvement in the stock market was even less at that time. However, the people who did---as is still true today---not only had/have skin in the game, but also happened/happen to be the most politically powerful. Thus, what hurts the politically powerful will be "fixed" by the politically powerful. Enter the Federal Reserve Act.
What Sept-Oct 2008 taught us if nothing else is that the bottom 90% really does not matter; very cynical, I know, but that's what I learned, anyway. Remember the first TARP vote? Paulson's three-page blank check authorization bill, aka TARP, was overwhelmingly unpopular with 90%+ of the voting public. And when it was voted down in the House at the end of September, the DJIA crashed 777 points the same day. Many of our elected representatives are themselves members of that top 10%, thus all the sudden their votes were hurting their own pocket books. Within a few days, TARP came up again for a vote, and those same reps had two choices: 1.) help themselves on the backs of the taxpayer (aka, the other 90%), or 2.) release the taxpayer from the cluthes of the zombie banks. They chose the former---and then, many of them were re-elected by their own "90%" back home two years later. Go figure.
"We" are getting what "we" deserve to a great decree---but only if "we" means "the collective majority." The collective majority still falls for the manufactured left-right paradigm, and fails to see that the different puppets are manipulated by the same hands, year after year. The average person on the street, and probably the average rep or senator, has no clue that the US is backstopping the EU banks as we speak, and no clue that the US is bailing out Greece (and Ireland, and Italy, and...) through the US-run IMF. The biggest danger of a stock market crash, as inevitable as it is, is not the danger that pension plans will lose money, or even that the top 10% will get hurt. The real danger is that it will repeat the "Rich Man's Panic" of 1907 that prompted the FRS, and this time on a global scale. We call the VIX the "fear index," but the SP500 or DJIA are truly the fear scales of the elite and the wanna-be elite politicos, and if/when we get another market crash, the fear level will very likely prompt the test-tubing of creature worse even than the one from Jekyll Island.
"What Sept-Oct 2008 taught us if nothing else is that the bottom 90% really does not matter; very cynical, I know, but that's what I learned, anyway."
I had very much the same revelation. In 2008-2009 the mask was lifted and those who did not short-circuit their comprehension saw clearly that their masters would move heaven and earth to save the banks and the siphoning system, not them. Only a child could go on believing, after those events. Cynical? No, just true. Our masters would have you think it is cynicism; when it is they who are cynical to a soul-deadening degree.
Add me to the list of folks who became much more enlightened in 2008. Not only did I truly realize that the sole purpose of any politician is to maintain the status quo of wealth and power for those who currently have both, but I also realized Politicians will do anything and everything to ensure their owners do not take a hit at the cost of everyone and everything else.
In 2008 I also came to the final conclusion that our 2 parties are really just one corporate-owned party. I had suspected this for years, but watching Obama's "change you can believe in" essentially become Bush the Lesser's 3rd term has shown me that while the mouthpiece may change every four years, the real agenda is already set, Which leads back to my original conclusion above that most all politicians serve only one purpose and that is to keep wealth and power in the hands of those whom already have it while doing their best to give those same folks more wealth and power.
Obama is an American version of Carlos Menem of Argentina. Menem made all kinds of reassuring grunts like "I will never betray you!" and proceeded to do just that the split nano-second after he took office, just like zero-bama.
That is what inclines me to believe its even worse than you seem to think. Not only do they protect their masters, but we are in for a long period of structural adjustment. They are just doing to us what they have been doing to other countries for decades. It's only the country that is different. This is our Copernican moment folks. We are no more "special" than Argentina. Now isn't that special?
Next up: Jekyll Planet
Good point. I've thought about this myself and it's the ONLY reason I can think of not to have a major sell off.
Are these percentiles determined by total wealth, or by annual income? There's a huge difference. For the past five years I've been in the top 20 percent in terms of annual income. However, I shudder to think where I am in terms of wealth. I'm at about -150k in terms of net wealth. I run a nice -40k without student loans (upside down on my house and cars). But add 110k in non-bankruptcy-dischargable debt I borrowed for student loans, and I'm waaaaaay upside down.
For me, I dream of inflation, to dillute my debt. Of course, it never comes. At this rate, I might break even in terms of wealth in 10 or 15 years. Meanwhile, I try to look at it with wry humor -- if I die, the joke's on my creditors! Or their insurance companies, or something. They will have to write off $150 grand, and also the 75 grand or so in interest payments I will be making over the next 10 years.
Anyway, I was just wondering how they get these percentiles. Sure, I have high cash flow right now, but my broke-ass unemployment-line-standing brother in law is actually about $150k richer than me right now, because at least he doesn't have any debt.
Not necessarily ("if I die, the joke's on my creditors!").
I think the dying thingy would completely fuck them over, I'd shoot for that strategy! Would that send those fuckers into a loop or what! haha!
US people in Main Street definitely FUCKED UP by Obama and Bernanke.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-fix-is-in-2011-8
More than f*ed up. Some have died because of it.
party like its 1907! i'll bring my gramophone!
if it was 1907, all of oBLAHma's speeches would be subtitles accompanied with organ music!
In 1907 you could buy the best whiskey for $3 a gallon and cocaine and heroin at every drug store without a prescription.
i'm in!
And the average wage in the U.S. was less than a quarter per hour.
On the upside, 10 cents would buy you a box of cocaine tablets.
i'm still in!
If you run the numbers 1oz of gold is $1740 today and was $20 in 1907. That means a quarter then was worth 87 times as much in 1907. That's $21.75 in inflation adjusted equivlent, and we are still correcting as gold reacts to debasement and the surpression to protect fiat.
Sounds like a good wage for an unskilled worker with less then a high school education. These days people like that are homeless no matter how bad they want to work.
#41
That was the average wage for workers...most made much much less.
Average hourly wage today: $23.13
how much did a night with the unsinkable molly cost?
How'd they ever make it to the voting booth???
$3 a gallon? Are you trying to bankrupt me?
Okay, I guess I don't understand the stock market. I thought people buying shares was a way to let them borrow your money to make money and then give you some of the profit. A really good company is one that folks think is going to keep making money so that stock costs more. If the stock market total value goes down, doesn't that mean the companies have less money to work with to make money? Have I got the whole thing wrong? If they have less money, then they fail more and there are fewer jobs, then no one can buy anything and the downward spiral goes into a tailspin that cannot be pulled out of and there is a crash of the system of distribution itself.
Am I wrong????
I am rooting for the market to crash because I think it is another way we are being lied to. The values are faked because PDs and others are getting FED money to buy stocks, which, in turn, disguises how ill the economy really is. When it crashes, it is an absolute way that the truth comes out there and we are forced to deal with it. Again, have I got this wrong????
If I don't have this wrong, IT MATTERS.
MsCreant -- companies only raise money from the stock market when they sell shares in an initial public offering (IPO) or a secondary offering.
After that, the shares fluctuate in value as they change hands. But those fluctuations have no effect on the capital which the company raised at the initial sale.
Low stock prices are only an issue if a company needs to raise more equity financing. Bank of America, for instance, might like to make a secondary stock offering now to raise capital. But it would dilute the value of the outstanding shares, and knock their price down even farther.
exactly...sooo true...was going to post the ipo point myself...remember the recent tech ipo rush? they were cashing out at the top...
Sounds like something I should have known on my own but did not. Thank you.
blackstone did it too... blackstone ipo
The lady asked if her fourth orgasm was the truest of all. The guy answered "Its the best one until the next one". That is in essence the spirit of the market. Once you are hooked you only want more and more. Now the question is not so much will this ever end. The question is does this mean happiness? Your call...If you're an addict you have no choice. If you want to vomit it all out and hope you can start afresh all over again, you could be in for a rough ride. If you want to go to the ashram and call it a day, its the end of your horny, bushy tailed days.
What has rationality got to do with dealing with lust? Its question of life and death for some. For others its a deadly cul de sac. Its a feeling, its an existential thing; a thrill, a zeitgeist, a drill, but not a logical thing. Walk away from it and you may live longer. But can you?
Interesting post. I do not know how to respond. The style is wrong (and I don't think he could pull it off to fake it), otherwise I would suspect my husband of posting such (because of some of the points you made).
I do get pulled back and I am not really "in it." When I was in it, I didn't understand it at all. When I really got it, I got out (late 2006, no 40% haircut for me).
I can't stop watching and trying to understand it. It does feel like life and death and seems like the pulse under everthing.
At this point, the stockmarket seems to be a different animal than in the past. Consider that inflation-adjusted wages have been steadily declining for the last 30 or 40 years and that, to compensate for this, people have to use the equity in their houses and run up credit card debt to get by, even on two working class incomes (not the ZH demographic, of course). At the same time, they have all this cash in their IRAs and 401Ks that is continually declining in value. Note that you can't generally buy gold for your 401K because TPTB realized that would not redound to their benefit. Thus you are forced to gamble in rigged markets that are kept aloft by POMO, which is designed to trick the unwary into playing in this casino (abetted and often managed by sell-side financial advisers). Since the probability that you lose money is >0.5, this amounts to a disguised way of stealing your retirement funds on the part of TPTB. In the aggregate, the house wins.
Yeah, I sound like a conspiracy nut. My theory is that conspiracies don't have to be consciously planned by anyone. They represent a parallelogram of forces that give the same result as if there were a conspiracy (I'm a subjunctive-conspiracy nutter). It's more that things evolve that way because of the way society is structured, and the intransigent ideologies that dominate thinking play a supporting role in that. Pardon this paragraph--just my take on things.
Its called the crimson circle of Oligarchy play. Rome had two triumvirates where the Oligarchs tried to share power, as the republic lay in tatters after the civil war of social classes. Objectively the Oligarchs want the market to stop being fair, they want to dominate and manipulate. As the circle gets smaller and the Oligarchs fight amongst themselves; until one emerges as top dog by daring to cross the rubicon. We are there now. The whole notion of market forces is a joke. When 0.1 % controls 70% of market play through corporates all agreeing on the overall trend of stifling competition and REAL price discovery, but all trying to keep their place in the 'musical chair' race to the bottom.
Gues what? The two faces of US capitalism : the ponzi central planned play that keeps the market bouyant and the destructive "me first" HF play are now at loggerheads. It will only go down as they've bled the government sector savings white. All they have left to steal in real money terms is the pensions of US boomers and the riches of foreign nations. Mad hatters party in full bloom, all the way to doom and kaboom.
(I'm a subjunctive-conspiracy nutter)
me too...nice way of putting it...a wink & a nod goes a long way...
Just feel the beat...its a John Coltrane symphony and its called 'blue train'.
The style is a smile when anguish becomes futile.
Not buying this article. True, the wealthy own much more than us, but many companies still offer 401ks to employees and while the amount in each account may not be much at all millions have some sort of retirement account that holds stocks. Most probably do not have a clue as to their holdings, they mostly know the dollar amount. I will agree the 45 million on food stamps probably to not have a $100,000 stock account.
But, we will burn down at some point, that is a given. The timing is not.
Who has more to lose? Who has been living it up? Not the poor and the middle class. As far as living standards go, if we have a real crash, the rich have a much longer way to fall.
Meatball--an appropriate moniker. Let see, if I have 50 million, and it drops to 25 million, yes indeedy, 25 million loss. Whereas, if I have 30,000 and it drops to 15,000, yes, a 15,000 loss. Let's face it, your mathematical talents are wasted on this blog.
A severe decline in the "wealth effect" would probably crimp the top 10% tranche's carefree spending, which accounts for some 40% of the nation's consumer spending. If the market crashes, high-end retailers and restaurants would likely see sales fall significantly. While there would be consequences, we should be careful not to overstate the stock market's role in the nation's Main Street economy.
Forty percent is not insignificant.
Exactly!!
Waiters, waitresses, bartenders, greeters, cooks etc lose their jobs. Sales people lose their jobs. People who do service on the items sold (mechcanics for high end boats and cars, tailors for the clothes) LOSE THEIR JOBS. THIS MATTERS!!
This is not just the FIRE economy.
It only matters, because people's life depends on the top 10-%. That's not to say that it does not matter - i'm just saying: The only reason why the top 10-% can make life hell for 90+%, is a fucked up economic model. In other words: The model ensures that 10-% of the population, are responsible for the survical of 90+%.
Bottom line: The article is right in that it does only affect the top of the pyramid. It is however wrong in that the top of the pyramid does not affect the majority of the population.
Too big to fail, and similiar shit...
Thanks. For all my time in, I am perpetually a newbie, it would seem.
Not really - in this case, it's more a matter of "how far you look". If you look rather closely, then the stockmarket and the top 10% does obviously affect 90% of the population, just as upper-middleclass and above employers affect the entire lower-to-middle class, with the later for "some reason" representing the vast majority of the population. Therefore, it would seem that the article is wrong in that it does not affect the majority...
...well, in a way it is indeed wrong in that regard. Yet, "looking further".... the question arises: "Why the fucking hell can a failure 10-% of the population, translate to 90+% of the population being affected"?
Answer: Wealth and power bias. In this society and economic model, a small minority controls (power) the majority of ressources and services. Therefore, if a "too big to fail" minority falls, entire society falls...... which is pretty much the opposite to what BOTH free market capitalists and communists as well as socialists want... the only faction that wants this, is elitist cleptocrats. So, in terms of goals, this isn't even a question of ideology, because it contradicts all quantitatively popular ideologies.
Answer: Wealth and power bias.
Chicken dinner!
It would seem both capitalism and communism are but narratives designed to trick us into swallowing inequity based on lies. Another form of divide and conquer.
To borrow from another thread: "Hey, i'm trying to be diplomatic here!"
What would rynak reply, if he wouldn't care about diplomacy, and were right "in your face"? Well...
Free market capitalism as well as libertarianism and individualism sans all the wishfull thinking:
= Social & Economic Reductionism
Communism and all related collectivist ideologies, sans all the wishful thinking and morals:
= Social & Economic Holism
Having made this step in mental evolution, i guess we can see the glaringly obvious dichotomy... and yes, lie.
Fair enough, I will borrow from a post of mine on the WTF economy thread:
Language is the trap but we don't live with that as our common sense understanding of things. Formulas point, labels point, but they should never rule.
To be fair, we need preassumptions, because we do not have the mental capacity to deal with every single case by..... reason (and even if we would, it wouldn't be efficient). But to ensure reliability of our "rules of thumb", we should check via reason in reasonable intervals, so that we can catch contradictions in a reasonable timespan, instead of being locked into a one-way-street until it is too late.
So, i think it's not so much a matter of doing one thing all the time... but more a matter of complementary balance. There are many pieces of the puzzle, that do matter - that neither means, that what you do doesn't matter (egalitarianism), nor does it mean that one puzzle piece matters the most (absolutism)... it just means: everything matters, in due time.... just pay attention to every single piece once in a while, and you should be fine.
Bottom line: Just be balanced and be not overly mentally lazy, and you should be fine. It really isn't rocket-science, once you got the hang of it.
Case by Case?
a bullet for each is case by case.
you keep talking to the women while the men plan on dealing with you and your kind.
if you are not part of the solution.. your are part of the problem.
and a clean sweep is what is needed to rid this country of the Treasonous Trash that has supported and / or allowed American the Beautiful to be Gutted!
hang all of you fuckers by your intestines on the White Lawn for Treason.
Okay, what did you mean by "you keep talking to the women while the men plan on dealing with you..."
Do you not talk to the women? Are women not to be talked to? If so, why not?
Yes Dear..
LOL!
Life is graded on a curve (ball).
If anybody's been to Africa, or India, you'd quickly realize all of us are in the top 10%. They don't know what the Dow is.
you dont know what money is, you think you have money..
answer me this?
how often does GE come out and change the motors on your plane?
if you dont understand that lease structure.. you are POOR! no matter how much your ego tells you other wise.
Another form of divide and conquer.
Give the lady a teddy bear !
Like the midway, the carny is barking while they pick your pocket. Churn and skim, churn and skim.
Labels are but a diversion while they skin you clean.
Yep. That is the WTF economy. Thirty percent of the people are driving half the GDP. They are confident in their abilities. The rest of the people are worried.
Why are we even discussing this? Do you think bernank will ever let the indeces drop? Dun be a fool and BTFD.
This song is going to play for a bit longer. Granted though, if Israel decides to take out Iran's nuke program, say this Fall, that's an entirely new song kinda like Ride of the Valkyries.
I bought stock last week hoping for a crash. At this point I am willing to pony up to see a crash. Go ahead bitchez, take my money, make it BLEED!!
Jamie lost thirty one-millllion dollars of his personal fortune so far this month! Poor Lloyd lost fifty-two millllion dollars and holds first place position as WALL STREET"S BIGGEST LOSER.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4_ohPqTEgM&feature=related
Oh noes...that's like their whole bonus.
the bigger they are, the harder they fall.....i dont think those with the smallest fall will even feel it
Years ago I read that the biggest shareholder in Exxon was the Chicago Area Teachers Pension Fund. There are other big pension funds, I thought that since the 80s if not earlier, these pension funds and mutual funds were the biggest investors, and individual investors were nearly a thing of the past.
So what the hell happened? Either the mutual funds, pension funds, and other institutional investors have sold all their stock or the above chart is bogus.
Sir,
No one could question the rectumtude of the Economic Policy Institute.
http://www.epi.org/pages/about_the_economic_policy_institute/
I was pondering that chart as well. Nothing in that chart about all the states, counties, cities, and federal gov ownership of stock. Not pensions, but the actual corporate entities.
CAFRs show massive ownership of stock by governments. Not really sure where they fall on that pie. If this is private stock ownership, fine. I would also like to see total stock ownership and chart that. People would shit and go blind if they saw how much is owned by the "poor" governments around this nation. Of course, nobody speaks of that.
pods
BACHMAN 1ST
PAUL close 2nd
Hahahahahaha. "The Incumbent" couldn't hope for a nicer gift. Who knew Iowa had that many Randy Travis fans?
Tyler, can you forward my archived posts to me. Need that B&W September video thingy. Didn't save it that night. Email will do. Thank you.
In other news:
Congresswoman Michele Bachmann has won the Ames Straw Poll with 29% of the vote, edging out Rep. Ron Paul by 152 votes, or 28%.
but you'd never know it watching CNN it's all about Perry the MSM's choice for the GOP
Let us know if she makes it to New Hampshire.
The Muppet show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-_QLNkh-zI
You're obviously not taking this very seriously...lol