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Guest Post: Italy And The Great Tax Revolt
Submitted by James Miller of the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Canada
Italy And The Great Tax Revolt
Taxation is theft.
There is no denying this. If I and a few brutes appeared at the door of an unsuspecting individual and demanded monetary compensation less we drag him off to jail, this would be a clear cut case of robbery. It is a common tactic used by mobs or street gangs to offer protection with the barrel of a gun. The only difference between shakedowns by private thugs and those employed by the state is the badge. The badge legalizes extortion and imprisonment.
With that being said, it has been three years since the financial crisis and governments around the world are still reeling in the lesser Depression. Tax collections are down while public expenditures have skyrocketed in a vain effort to stabilize the economy. Much of this mass orgy in spending has been financed by central banks printing money and the suppression of interest rates down to artificially low levels. This is the Keynesian remedy to recession. Spend what you don’t have via the printing press. Have central bankers create paradise on Earth through counterfeiting.
So far it hasn’t worked.
Like the Great Depression before, regime uncertainty and an emphasis on consumption over private investment have prevented a sustainable recovery from taking hold. Public debts continue their upward trend with no conceivable end in sight. The bond vigilantes have started their attack on the Eurozone; namely Greece, Portugal, Italy, and Spain. Greece is all but finished as even the most dimwitted of commentators is conceding than an exit from the euro is likely. Meanwhile in Italy, the lack of tax collection has forced the hand of Prime Minister Mario Monti to crack down on tax evasion. This hasn’t gone over well with the Italian public. From the San Francisco Chronicle:
Equitalia, the state tax-collection agency, has been targeted in a wave of attacks as Italians chafe under stepped-up efforts to recover an estimated 120 billion euros ($153 billion) in lost revenue from evasion. On May 12, a Molotov cocktail exploded outside Equitalia’s Livorno office, one day after a parcel bomb was delivered to the Rome headquarters, site of a December explosion that tore off part of the general manager’s hand.
“I have never seen such a tense atmosphere” said Ballico, who has been employed by Equitalia since 1998 and is now on temporary leave to work for the UGL labor union. “They call us loan sharks, bloodsuckers; my colleagues have to deal with anxiety and stomach aches every day and they are scared.”
News to Ms. Ballico: you and your coworkers are “bloodsuckers.” Your profession is based on pure violence and robbing your countrymen. Why should they not identify you for what you truly are?
The reactionary attacks are the result of the austerity measures being imposed in Italy and other highly indebted countries of the Eurozone periphery. These measures are often described as savage cuts in spending when in actuality the public is being squeezed more to fund the government’s operations. The political class remains unwilling to significantly scale back its operation and profligacy. The money was supposed to be cheap. The good times were never supposed to end.
And now the slaves are revolting.
Earlier this month, a 54-year-old small businessman facing financial difficulties and tax debts of around 2,400 euros, took 15 hostages at an Equitalia office near Bergamo for several hours before surrendering to police.
When the chains of oppression are being tightened, some react in not-so-kind manners.
And yet this is the trend happening all around the world. In light of Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin renouncing his U.S. citizenship to live in Singapore and avoid filling the coffers of the IRS from the billions he stands to gain on the popular website’s initial public offering, New York Senator Chuck Schumer and Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey have introduced legislation to mandate a 30% capital gains tax on those who follow in Saverin’s footsteps. In France, many entrepreneurs are gearing up to leave as newly-elected President Francois Hollande has promised to raise the highest marginal tax rate to 75%. Greece is being pressured to clamp down on tax evasion. The same goes with Spain. Even Swiss banks are being targeted by the U.S. Department of Justice for acting as tax safe havens.
Politicians and their bureaucratic foils think only in the short term. They see less tax money flowing into their hands and instantly attempt to confiscate more. This reaction is an inner glimpse into their true motive of reestablishing supremacy. Why people would be reluctant to hand over even more of the sweat of their brow is never a consideration. In the politician’s mind, it is the populous that serves the state, not vice versa. Centuries of compulsory democracy haven’t altered the relationship between the aristocracy and the serfs who plow the field. Today, serfdom is disguised with the existence of the ballot box.
Like a drug addict, the state must be sustained by increasing amounts of revenue to satisfy its craving of paying off voters. It must continually buy legitimacy to hold up the veil which masks its thieving tendencies. As the tax fund dwindles, governments in the West are becoming desperate. Like the producers in Ayn Rand’s uncannily predictive novel Atlas Shrugged, many of the more productive members of society have grown tired of being soaked to pay for political handouts and unending wars of aggression. The resistance isn’t limited to the rich as the Chronicle article points out, “much of the anger directed at Equitalia is from people with more modest means.”
Italian Interior Ministry Anna Maria has declared that attacking tax collectors “is the equivalent of attacking the state.” What she won’t admit is that the state carries out a perpetual war on those who it feeds off of to function. In perhaps the greatest and most precise description of the state ever written, individual anarchist Lysander Spooner explains difference between a highway robber and a government tax collector:
The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the roadside, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is nonetheless a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.
The highwayman takes solely upon himself the responsibility, danger, and crime of his own act. He does not pretend that he has any rightful claim to your money, or that he intends to use it for your own benefit. He does not pretend to be anything but a robber. He has not acquired impudence enough to profess to be merely a “protector,” and that he takes men’s money against their will, merely to enable him to “protect” those infatuated travellers, who feel perfectly able to protect themselves, or do not appreciate his peculiar system of protection. He is too sensible a man to make such professions as these. Furthermore, having taken your money, he leaves you, as you wish him to do. He does not persist in following you on the road, against your will, assuming to be your rightful “sovereign”; on account of the “protection” he affords you. He does not keep “protecting” you, by commanding you to bow down and serve him; by requiring you to do this, and forbidding you to do that; by robbing you of more money as often as he finds it for his interest or pleasure to do so; and by branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country, and shooting you down without mercy, if you dispute his authority, or resist his demands. He is too much of a gentleman to be guilty of such impostures, and insults, and villainies as these. In short, he does not, in addition to robbing you attempt to make you either his dupe or his slave.
The only difference between a thief and the taxman is the thief recognizes his crime is wrong. The taxman not only feels entitled to the labor of others but routinely pilfers under the pretenses of serving its victims.
Decades ago in the depths of the Great Depression, Western governments took advantage of the crisis and consolidated power and enlarged the scope of their authority. Voters barely put up a fight. They gave up personal and economic liberty for entitlement programs. It seemed like the right choice at the time.
It was the great swindle orchestrated by a ruling class looking only to expand its control.
Now that the money for the savior state is running out, the choice is clearer than ever. The leeches living off the state apparatus are prepared to do whatever is necessary to preserve their well being. From political protest to tax evasion, trampling the citizenry into compliance is their goal. It is ultimately up to the public at large to decide how much they are individually willing to take.
The small businessmen of Italy have made their choice and have said no to more of their income being squandered away on the perks of government employees. Let’s us hope they won’t be the only ones.
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> "... you arrive at a figure of say $5k a head. and that should be it, whether you earn peanuts or billions."
Good designs for other people's money... except it ain't fuckin' yours for your designs.
I'm alright Jack, keep your grubby dick-beaters off of my stack.
You should watch The Philosophy of Liberty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I
Amazing how the "we've" got to have a framework turns into "you", "you", "you", "you", "you".
No I I I I I I don't fucking have to.
Sound like one of my uber-liberal golf buddies.
As soon as he thinks they've identified the problem, it's solved without any further effort on his part. It's demanded, ordered of others or turned over to their Higher Power, in his case the Gubamint and his other Higher Power, his ego, has been salved.
Hypocritical Ex Cathedra Horse Shit
Agree
Govt is a bag of puss for liberals to buck-pass problems
solutions should be individually solved, not collectivised or passed off to institutions because the liberals are too f'n lazy to sort their own porblems out
We don't need Govt to solve our problems.. Govt is the problem and has never solved any problem, social or economic, in its entire failed history
solutions should be individually solved ...
So - you gonna build all the roads you will ever drive on? You gonna plant and harvest all the food you will ever eat? You gonna gather all the fuel you will ever need to keep warm in winter? You gonna make all the medicines you may need throughout your life? You gonna make all the fuel you will ever need to power all the things you will need to make your own roads, plant and harvest your own food, make your own medicines, and generate your own heat?
Education leads one from a position of cocksure ignorance to a position of thoughtful uncertainty. This much is true: the more you learn, the more you will realize just how much you don't know. The more one learns, the more one understands the need to be careful about making global statements of the sort you make.
So- you're going to make the ridiculous an argument?
I don't have to build the roads, communities can HIRE people to make roads. BUY the produce of local farmers and even visit the apothecary. Though one can cut their own wood, grow their own herbs and cut their own roads.
The difference is that the payments I make to a contractor are voluntary, not seized at the barrel of a gun. Education leads one nowhere if the person fails to examine the quality of knowledge accumulated nor learns how to assimilate it into a useful set of tools to define their lives.
Save your pompous pronouncements for the ignorant.
There are incentive related problems to your theory.
So if the whole community wants a road , and you refuse what happens? The community makes the road, and you get free rides. If you refuse fire fighting service, and your house is sharing a wall with your neighbour's, your neighbor has to pay to protect your house too,so that in case of fire his house isnt destroyed. Want more? What if the community adopts nature protection fees, and you refuse to pay, and pollute more?
Yes ,the way governments work nowadays isnt correct. But what you propose isnt a solution in current communities.
Who cares if the whole community wants a road? Just the use of the word "community" scares me to death. BTW you sound like a "community organizer." You probably have a PhD in this non?
I don't care one worthless fiat zinc penny if a "community" wants a road. But before there were (the plague of) governments there were roads. Deer make roads. Do you think deer can make roads but humans can't make roads unless they surrender their freedom and make themselves slaves to a "community organizer" and an army of chartered thugs, they have to pay to bash their heads in?
If you have deep ideological differences with a "neighbor", would you build a house in partnership with such a person? Or would you separate yourselves and surround yourself with like-minded people? Well "government" made that illegal and nullified such charters, then told you who your neighbors would be. Your sainted "government" works against human cooperation, and creates wars plague pestilence and mass death. Do you want links?
Pennslyvania existed for some years or decades I forget with no government whatsoever. Ah to relive those days of freedom.....
But there are no free riders in a system of state taxaton? No welfare, Social Security, Unemployment, Food stamp, Medicare, Corporate welfare queens? That's your argument?
If I share a wall with a neighbor, didn't I know that when I bought the property? Why wouldn't I buy insurance?
What if the community protects private property? Then pollution is properly penalized, rather than now, where the cost is socialized.
Want more? Please. You haven't come up with a single plausible argument. Try harder.
Division of Labor != Government
So, tell me, O Great Guru of Gubbermint: in your opinion, how much of MY LIFE should be forced labor in service of the state? Dipshits like you never understand that income taxation = involuntary indentured servitude (at best).
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/afghanistans-karzai-obama-taxpayers-...
Heee...Haw....Heee....Haw.......
knuckles! I didn't know you golfed with my brother-in-law!
Dude - find a new golf partner or shank that MF'er libtard with a 64 degree lob/flop wedge.
well, we've obvously got to have a framework...
That's the story they shoved down our throats in school.
When you take an unbiased, adult look at it, however, it just ain't so.
Yes. The people can volunteer their time to create a part time army to defend the nation. For the basic capital to run government and provide basics an "extraction" tax on natural resources that are extracted for profit a sales tax on imports and exports...voila.
edit: the taxes I describe are not "forced" on the citizens, every man woman and child has the right and option to pay zero taxes. Its the income tax that sticks out as the immoral sore thumb.
When they arbitrarily double your ad valorem real property taxes, yet the values have gone down over the same period (yes, it's true), does THAT meet your criterion for "immoral sore thumb"? Pitchforks definitely in order for the county assessor, who I know is just as pernicious - if not worse - as any of the criminal deuche bags in DC.
Yes it does as you're forced to pay it under threat of losing your house...now I have two sore thumbs.
We already have a volunteer army (I thought). The problem I see on reducing federal expenditures is that folks still think the role of the State is to "take care of folks" so the same bankrupt principles will simply be transferred to the states. (I guess in the case of IL and CA they already have).
warren, comma, elizabeth, chose to avoid the extra taxation here in the Commonwealth, becauxe she didn't wish to make a "charitable contribution".
She thinks that it is not voluntary.
- Ned
but if all taxation is theft...then it should be voluntary?
Yeah, but then it couldn't be called "taxation," it would be called "commerce."
Yes, exactly. Excise taxes are an example of a voluntary tax. You can legally avoid the tax by not engaging in the taxed activity.
The dumming down of America -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0Y9j_CGgM&feature=related
The dumming down of America -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0Y9j_CGgM&feature=related
The double post and misspelling are classic given the context. However the video was interesting.
Ha, You got me there! I was in a hurry and didn't check ...
"Taxatiion is theft" is the stupidest comment ever penned on ZH. If you don't like being taxed, just go somewhere you're not taxed. We're big believers in personal responsibility right? So - don't allow yourself to be taxed.
Dumb ass...
How about taxation without representation, rude guy?
Just how "represented" do you feel?
I feel there is a huge wall of Lobby between me and representation...
WTF? US citizens pay tax even if they live abroad. Hell, you pay tax even if you renounce your citizenship, for the next ten years. This is naked in your face aggression from the government you clueless moron, this is the definition of slavery by birth.
PS: Fuck you
That made me laugh. I applaud you sir.
Yes and the "naked in your face aggression from the government" is the IRS who are owned and controlled by none other than a private bank, The Fed
ie. The Parasite Club
You must be unaware of the fact that us yanks are the property of Treasury, regardless of which country we live in.
Yeah, and where can we go and live without being taxed by the Fed's, you stupid sack of shit. Try moving to another country, and see if you can even open up a bank account as a US citizen. Better yet, move to the Bahamas, not pay your taxes and see what happens. Asshole.
I've noticed an increase in psy-op trolls lately, especially on these sorts of posts, and the gold ones too.
the Fed has started its 'Open Market Operations' to improve its image
...otherwise known as a Smear & Propaganda Campaign
stupidest comment ever penned on ZH. If you don't like being taxed, just go somewhere you're not taxed. We're big believers in personal responsibility right?
Translation: MUST... NOT... ALLOW.. THIS... TO... BE... SPOKEN...
Antartica is a very cold place...
Dude, u been around here a while. Stupidest? C'mon. GW has half of the top ten, you have to have your own list.
Nyet.
- Ned
The people who enact taxes are elected. Not many places do they enact enough taxes to pay for what they hand out. People vote for the ones who give them handouts. Thus they are voting for taxes. Not many people vote to get mugged in the violent crime sense. TPTB are able to avoid almost all tax themselves or pay less than they get from the government in other ways so the system is fine with them.
Besides, muggers don't usually come back later and give you some retirement money, a library, a road, etc.
They're NOT "voting for taxes". Very few, at least...
People vote for entitlements, subsidies and services fully expecting that someone else - "the rich" - will pay for it. No one expects to pay themselves...
I don't think that's true- most people, even the average J6P understands the link between taxes and public services. Everyone gets taxed to some degree, so they all feel entitled to a slice of public loot.
The big fail is when they don't recognize that when tax-return time comes around and they end up paying in a couple hundred bucks for the year or making a gain on that "rebate" that they really haven't contributed anything.
"Besides, muggers don't usually come back later and give you some retirement money, a library, a road, etc."
Even if they did (20 cents or even 50 cents on the dollar: lets be generous and think that government spend 50% on what people actually need) would they stop being muggers?
exactly, its in the interest of the slavemaster that the slaves recieve food, shelter and some basic education to operate the machines.
The master charges the slaves with the high cost of those services, and then goes on and supplies those services in the most ineffective, bureaucratic, slow and expensive way possible.
Fuck you slavemasters!
When SS was invented, most men died before receving benefits. The government is just a bunch of criminal scam artists.
Back in the 1930's life expectancy was 65. SS retirement age was set to 65.....
"Besides, muggers don't usually come back later and give you some retirement money, a library, a road, etc"
here let me clean that up for you...
"Besides, muggers don't usually come back later and give you some light speed rail, bridges to nowhere, nation wide medicare with insufficient funding, open borders suing you if you as a state decide to do something about it, endless wars in places we have no business, etc"
oh and on top of that... unsupportable, crushing debt.
now doesn't that read better?
and the best thing .... they charge you so they can build the prisons where you will be incarcerated if you dont pay the money they charge you so they can build the prisons where you will be incarcerated if you dont pay the money they charge you so they can build the prisons where you will be incarcerated if you dont pay the money...
Yeah! And slaves had it even better. 3 square a day, a roof over their head, all the cotton clothes they could wear, a road to and from work that was mantained by their benefactor, cared for in their old age...boy they had it great didn't they! Gee, I wish I could have been one of them...oh, well, we'll all get our chance soon enough. /sarc
Oh yeah? I didn't vote for the fuckers. BECAUSE I DIDN'T VOTE.
Taxation does keep roads intact and so on. Just problem is that money=power and such power corrupts weak minds. Causing inneficient tax management and outright stealing, which is walled up.
Comparing biggest and smallest governments in world, maximum around 10% of GDP can be used on government. More means you are growing debt.
Taxes keep the roads intact? Really? You've never driven through Western PA, I take it.
Right, that's just programming, defending itself.
And, for the little it's worth, private roads go in for about 1/3 the cost of state roads.
Poetic injustice said:
Fuck roads.
And so on.
Govt does nothing better than the private sector ..including roads
defenders of the State just don't get it, that the role of road building was monopolised by the State off the private sector, as were railways (built by the likes of Brunel)
since the State has taken over roads and rail it's all gone to shit, the networks are antiquated and not fit for purpose
This tax revolt is a comedy. Those fuckers have been living off the government dole and have finally run out of money.
Our Kenyan president will step into a secret booth.. Shazam.. Unleash the unicorns to feed our socially dependent voters!!! The rich are to blame for high unemployment rate. We must tax the rich, they’re responsible for your poor living conditions. We need to move America Forward.
LOL
Profit is the biggest tax,
not at the company i own. not .. even .. close ..
No, but taxing is the most profitable business.
Oh, really! Italian businessmen suffering from high taxation? The biggest business there is the Mafia and they don't pay tax. Those who are not wage slaves can usually easily avoid almost all taxes just as in Greece. Heck, even in the US I paid almost no tax when I had a small business between hiring my kids, writing off house and car and self employed 401K and I reported everything. Most people in that line of work were not reporting anything.
Do these numbers make sense - average reported income in Italy
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/italys-tax-evasion-culture/2011/11/2...
lawyer -$59,000
mechanic - $29,000
restaurant worker - $11,000
You should really know something about a place before commenting stridently.
Italy has Financial Police - thousands of them - driving around in cop cars, with uniforms and guns, barging into businesses - every business - and examining their books.
Italy is way more fascist than you think.
In Chicago they're called the Mafia.
Yes and they have 100,000 battling the Mafia. Not much success so far.
And they had a couple hundred thousand trying to conquer Ethiiopians armed with spears 60 years ago. Not much success there either.
Italians are a great people with a wonderful lifestyle but organization and efficiency haven't been part of that for a couple thousand years.
Then why is tax evasion a national sport in Italy (and Greece)? The avoidance of taxes - often by those most able to afford them, some of those that have benefitted the most from the society they refuse to support, inspires more outrage than the taxation itself. The underground economy in Italy - and rampant tax avoidance means that taxation is anything but fair. Yet the citizens of these countries who are so adept at avoiding taxes all demand as much as possible - and more than is affordable) from their governments.
You can't demand everything from government while refusing to pay your own share. And this applies to copmpanies as well as individuals.
Good friends who regularly return to Italy to visit family are appalled at the sense of entitlement they see in relatives - and the all too common scheming to avoid taxes while milking the system.
So they're scared. They should be scared. I hope they are real scared. I hope their stomachs are eating them alive from the inside and they can't sleep at night. Serve them right. Maybe they will decide that this is really not worth it for money they don't even get to keep. If they aren't scared enough now, they will be when they have to start burying their colleagues. Its not hard to see that recent incidents are only a warm up and some of them are going to be losing more than a hand. Soon they are going to start dying violently and unpleasantly and then the rest of them might have to make some career choices.
Wouldn't the illustration be more apt if the government goon demanding tax money was being given a blowjob by the oppressed peasantry while being threatened?
The run on the banks in Italy has begun. My daughter lives there and on Thursday I emailed her to let her know that eventually the run on the banks would get to Italy and that she should change em into dollars. I didn't expect her answer...
Yeah people are withdrawing like crazy!
I don't think buying dollars is a good idea to be honest, there are still strong countries supporting the european economy as a whole. There were talks of Greece going back to the Drachma !!!!
BIG LMAO
LMAO is relevant to past AOL subscribers...or Faceplant fans. Daughter is 26 and living life well. Her friend sphere doesn't connect with what a bank run is. Sorry I didnt provide that context.
We all have and with good reason pictured mostly Greece and a bit of Spain yanking money out of the banks this past wek...not Italy. In other words, if she knows people are taking their money out of the bank like crazy then people are taking their money out of the bank like crazy.
Why not buy Au/Ag instead?
Is one able to move around Europe with Au/Ag? Or to move it back to the US, should one choose? I'm asking because I really don't know.
welfare democracy has failed, as has a clear attribution of corporate performance with executive salaries (most blatant in the gaming of governments by banks). we are at the end of the road as far as the abuses to the system are concerned. certainly big government and fat salaries not linked to performance are to blame. the system is fine, the corruption of the system is not.
+1,212 just include the banks are obviously a de facto arm of the government and basically set.
Why don't we just see to it that our taxes go to causes we think are worthy? This author gets free medical care, yet he bitches. Probably has a fire department near him too, pissed off about it. The cops are there to keep the Canadiens out of his neighbourhood too, he thinks they are pigs.
it's all relative to whether you what kind of society you want. It's the people you hire to spend it that need to be told what gets paid and what doesn't.
Don't be ridiculous. I don't WANT "your" fire department...or your "free" medical care...
Don't I have a right to pay for my OWN...?
How about a one time fee to install a sprinkler system in your house. Your house now has its' own fire department with no pension liabilities.
A hose pipe and a power nozzle? Oops, they turned the water off.
Obviously someone who thinks all we need to banish any risk, ever, from life is MORE LAWS...
Not the point. They get more in retirement than before.
Those payments don't end
I found alternative healthcare 15 years ago, because western "healthcare" is a pile of shit that will be regarded by people in 200 years with the same horror we look back on bleeding and blood letting as healthcare. I have to pay for it out my own pocket while I still have to pay for my fellow citizens to go and get poisoned and abused by big pharma. Go figure.
edit: volunteer fire dept in my village and my taxes go towards arming police who sit by the side of the road looking for sealtbelt infractions while I am not allowed to carry a gun on my hip. Sure if you want your money taken from you to be bullied, treated like a second class citizen and pay for poisoned vaccines go ahead, where can I sign up to opt out?
HAHAHAHHAHAH best post of the day hands down.
If only we could go back to the 1600's!!!!!!
BOL with them natural remedies when the last 9months of your life hits or most people are using the vast majority of their lifetime healthcare.
Lets see US-highest survival rates for the 12 most prevalent forms of cancer.
Woodhicks-lowest survival rates for the 12 most prevalent forms of cancer.
oddly cancer rates of the pure woodhicks and the chemical laden, drug filled urbanite are about equal.
Nothing better than a brain dead fanatic to add some levity.
edit:if less people were not completely brain dead the government wouldn't be responsible for so many.
of course, we are 9th worse in death by cancer amongst 16 western nations.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-death-from-cancer
That woodhick just may be better off, especially if he/she isn't as exposed.
Can't find a cirtation for your equal opportunity statement. Seems a little too difficult to test for, but please enlighten me.
What happen google offline?
Urban cancer rates are slightly higher, rural death rates are more than slightly higher as the cancer goes untreated longer.
Hence the brain dead idiot who you want to agree with above will be dead sooner.
The rest is the usual bullshit, the US has the highest survival rate for the 12 most common forms of cancer including a 90% rate on a handful while the rest of the world gets 90% in exactly one-ball cancer something some of you take the internet form of from time to time.
Global Hunter
Word! The CHP are all over the Socal freeways. try driving 65 MPH in cali - now that is dangerous!
Wish we could send people like him down to the US so he can be with his own kind. Canada does not need jerks like him ... unfotunately though we do tend to be tolerant ... even of assholes.
4 years later and the bailouts just never go away. How many times a year is Greece and Spain being propped up each year? I lost count....No way the Euro survives.
Ahmen brother! Great post!!!
Starve the beast. Oh we tried that 3 years ago but you fuckers still go to work and get taxed. Lol
Well I've turned down 8-10K of overtime so far this year. Am I helping?
Dude that is 5 ounces of gold you might need one day!!! Get back to work Oliver!!
Yes. A revolt against taxation is the only thing that will bring the entire regime down. If people do not pay then what are they going to do? Arrest the entire population? I do not think so.
America is at least a little different in that they collect taxes out of your pay check and most cannot control what is sent to the Government on a weekly basis. But, if everyone declared 9 dependents, watch out.
Yet, most people are honest and pay their taxes by threat of loss of liberty and property. I do not know anyone that wants to tangle with the IRS.
the key battleground is small business
they pay the lions share of tax and emply the most people
if they don't fancy tangling with the thugs at the IRS in a head-on stylee they could 'stutter' their protests (tax revolt) by say paying 2 out of 3 monthly contributions as if they'd forgotten to send in... the IRS would then have a logistical nightmare chasing each and every small business down for missing taxes
by the time they'd chased up 1 million of the 3 million small businesses that hadn't payed tax and the next quarters 'missing' taxes arrived on their jammed desks the IRS would be in complete shambles
it would send an ice-cold message to all the parasites in Washington and all the parasite Bond holders for their repayments ..watch the SHTF when taxes are with held
they are few, we are many ...use the numbers against them ..it doesn't take much to bring Govt down, it's a bloated fat lazy sucker
There's no need for an army if you've got no tax collection system. What exactly would the invading army want? Your horses? Your trees? Your cars?.. Countries are invaded for their livestock (the people). If there's no form of tax collection and no central repository where peoples' labor is collected, there's little reason or incentive to invade.
Thought provoking idea ZDRuX however I fear that the US gov't would declare that this nation was going to try and wipe Israel off the map and would need to be bombed and sanctioned. I think a volunteer part time militia is required IMO.
Heh, the Feds invaded and won back in what, 1864? Irony of ironies, they freed some slaves and enslaved a nation. Go figure.
Taxation is the price we pay for a "civilized" society.
If the land belongs to people, do you not pay for the roads/ bridges that gets your productions to others who consume. Do you not pay for the protection from theft in either the police(locally) or mititary (nation). Who builds your Dams which supply water or the pipes that allow you to both use and then flush the waste. who builds the Hospitals and schools, the electricity grids, the ports both rail and sea that see you trade. Who Judges what is fair under the nations laws and who institutes them for the betterment of society.
Taxation is distribution of weatlth for the needs, safety and improvement of the many.
However it would appear that Greed has got in the way and somewhere along the way the High ideal of Tax became the theft, misappropriation and malinvestment tools for the ones who can profit from it.
Today the joke is "How many men does it take to build a road." .... the answer is "As many leeches as possible who can steal margin from it" Same goes for the Military Complex and National security.
Reset comes
are there any examples of civilizations in society that did not have forced taxation? (Rhetorical)
USA prior to 1913 had no income tax I'm thinking.
Yes and both Hong Kong and Singapore were both examples of 'Free Ports' ...trade explodes when they're free of Govt theft/tax and rules/control
so in contrast to the British Govts 'light touch' in HK and Singapore where enterprise flourished we have the British 'heavy touch' at home where anything that moves is taxed and controlled and enterprise is in terminal decline
Only government can provide civilized society?
Are not government workers humans? Like the rest of us?
Why don't you ask all the native americans whose land was stolen and drowned under the Missouri River for dams.
Roads used to be private and still are until the developer turns them over to the cities?
Taxes are the means by which a small minority steals the labor and wealth of the people.
Please evolve politically and economically for the good of us all...
Agreed.
We don't have a civilized society, nor do we live in a civilized country. We live in a 3rd world banana republic police state.
So since we DO NOT have a civilized society, and taxes are paid to give us a civilized society-- that reasoning being exposed as farcical, can we do away with the taxes?
Starve the beast.
"Voters barely put up a fight." Oh, but now they are with bombings and hostages (as it's much more difficult to vote than storm a Bastille). And this shit from a fucking Canadian, who couldn't harm a fly without the aid of a hockey stick and ice to unbalance the opponent (?)
Hey, Mountie, take this advice from an Italian: You're a Gagutz, topped with tin foil ...
When I read how much I am supposed to fear the state, I am uplifted. At least the oligarchs still need my help.
"Taxation is theft."
Bingo
Never truer words spoken
Please bin every word by every philosopher, economist and journalist ever uttered and focus on the above 3.
This worlds health, and its demise, revolves entirely around those words.. all else is bullshit and wasting our time
On February 13, 1983, the US Marshals Service was summoned to the small North Dakota town of Medina to arrest a man by the name of Gordon Kahl, a known tax protester and former member of the Posse Comitatus. The marshals had an arrest warrant for Kahl and were notified that he was in Medina by Stutsman County Deputy Sheriff Brad Kapp. On a recent television program about how the power of the IRS is getting out of hand, assuming people are guilty until they prove their innocence, the show used a lead in of a picture of a wanted poster of Gordon Kahl announcing, "It all started with this man". The Medina shoot-out between Gordon Kahl and US Marshals was the first stop on a dangerous trail, which has lead to Ruby Ridge, Waco and Oklahoma City. Darrell Graf and Steve Schnabel were both members of the Medina Police Department, Graf being the Chief and Schnabel the Colonel. After finding out that the marshals were on their way to Medina, Graf and Schnabel did some quick planning and gathered members of the ambulance squad and rescue squad at the fire hall to prepare for what they thought could be a bloody shoot-out. Kahl had stated on several previous occasions that he would not go back to prison-he would go down fighting and take at least two enemies with him. The marshals arrived at Medina and eventually cornered Kahl just north of town by a small farmstead. Kahl had his wife Joan and son Yorie with him, as well as friends Scott Faul, David Broer and Vernon Wegner. After nine minutes of shouting back and forth to one another, a shot rang out and one of the marshals was fatally wounded. There was a short pause and then a hail of gunfire, which lasted 20-30 seconds.
http://www.amazon.com/Its-About-Power-Darrell-Graf/dp/0942323319/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337553216&sr=1-2
Few realize that 90% of the debt supposedly owed by the citizens is really debt that the banks brought on themselves through bad derivatives bets. The banks own the governments which are more than willing to take on this debt burden on behalf of its citizens (a.k.a. slaves). Iceland told the banks to piss up a rope and hence their economy is recovering. We should either tell the politicians to piss up a rope or hang them from one!
I am Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez and I say Death to the New World Order!
And I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my country. Prepare to die.
heh, send some of your iq my way please!
There are things that civilized people must do as a group and therefore taxation is perhaps the best way to provide for these things. It is apparent however that governments have nt only mismanaged those tax collections but also extended their expenditures into areas that are neither approved by nor beneficial for the people.
THE GREATEST THREAT IS DEFICIT SPENDING AND THE RESULTANT DEBT THAT ACCUMULATES BECAUSE THIS REPRESENTS ADDITIONAL FUTURE TAXATION.
Taxation is theft. There is no denying this.
We can argue about whether some government programs are cost effective at the margin; whether public sector workers are overpaid and/or underworked; and the efficiency or fairness of various tax systems. However, the basis propositions set out at the beginning of the article are childish nonsense.
Anyone who feels the way the author does is perfectly free to seek out a functioning society somewhere that collects little or no taxes. Go ahead. Vote with your feet. And as a public service you can tell us all here and now what that country is - go ahead, tell us where your model of government has been implemented and is working.
How about the US for the first 200 years.
If you want to move to the United States pre-1976 then you should do so. Please tell me how you will be accomplishing this as I believe time travel may have interesting commericial opportunities.
I think however that you will be disappointed. In 1976 the top marginal tax rate was 70% - hardly a tax free paradise.
Instead of leaving our own country, we are going to kick out the traitors who turned it into a giant prison camp
You know he's right Absalon. Let go of the programming. It isn't yours.
Absalon,
Were their airplanes before 1900? Do we fly in the present? Why?
Someone had a dream and worked to fulfill it. They invested their genius and hardwork, eventually establishing an entire industry that traverses the earth, 24 hours a day.
Were there cars in 1860? Do we drive cars today?
The world continues to create new ideas that are transformed into working models that create new efficiencies that benefit us all. Settling for what is an obviously failed means of social contract when alternatives exist, alternatives that have the opportunity for greater liberty and wealth creation for all people is the definition of insanity.
Slavery is not the only means of subsistence. Allowing people a choice, while living in the land of their birth, would be the hallmark of liberty and tolerance. We allow native americans to live under a different set of rules- are they any more native than you or I? We give religious exemptions. Why is this different?
You love totalitarianism and therefore, so should everyone else?
Sean7k
You set up a false choice. Your premise is that taxation is theft and claim that if I think that taxation is necessary to the functioning of a modern developed society then I believe in totalitarianism. It is childish nonsense and you and everyone who thinks like you has opted out of the political process.
You never responded to a single argument I proposed. You refuse to recognize the opportunity for change. Thus, you accept our present totalitarian state and want us all to go along. How is this a false choice?
If you do not believe this is a fascist nation, then please provide a defense or read, "As We Go Marching" by John Flynn.
Sean7k - do you seriously think that your collection of false premises and non sequiturs constituted arguments that should be answered?
Sure, but I have a feeling you can't. You are incapable of answering them and stay true to your original statement. You hope to use rhetoric as a defense, but rhetoric is merely a facade for ignorance. It may pass muster in your neighborhood, but not in mine.
People don't need government as it has become but most of us are not capable of 100% self-sufficiency and we do need viable mechanisms that are controlled at the local level for operating collectively, cooperatively, and collaboratively when that is needed. Oddly enough many such mechanisms already exist - things like cooperatives, co-housing communities, barter groups, self-defense militias, etc. However I'm afraid that unless the world suffers some kind of catastrophe that reduces the total population dramatically and destroys nation-state institutions in the process that local independent communities of self-governing people are a fading dream.
When you think about all of the people on Welfare who have never paid even one dime into the system. There are now virtual Welfare Moms that are basically paid Baby Factorys. They get paid for each child and their housing, food and health care. They have only been takers. Is it any wonder why the Country is going broke. Why doesn't anyone address this issue?
I wish the Government sent me a monthly check for each child I gave birth to and then supplemented my Housing, food and health care costs.
shhhh! If Section-8 housing were to end, people would have to think twice before having more kids and rents across the board would drop. Section-8 rents are typically above market. The true price equilibirum (rental rate) is much, much lower.
People with lower incomes are exempt from paying payroll taxes? BTY - 4/5 of the recepients on Food Stamps are children under 18 or elderly over 65. We should definitely abolish child labor laws. Same with the elderly. Work or turn them into Soylant Green.
These kind of stupid posts ('taxation is theft' blah blah) bring out the worst on here. Sho2 me a magically advanced large civilization dating back to Babylon which didn't have some form of taxation on its citizens to administer central government functions.
Maybe your little utopia of 'liberterian producers' would be able to set up a barter society but I am going to come with my larger and more technology superior army with trained professional soldiers supported by a centralized gov't and give your pathetic village two choices - pay me tribute however you can (gold/jewels/goods are fine if not I will take your young males for slave labor or professional conscripts) or face annhiliation.
I want to refute what you said, but I can't help thinking that you are right, and that is how the world works.
The ironic thing is that the Sheople of America, are faced with your threat, and their minds are so brainwashed, and so filled with (?Self-hate? Self loathing?) anyway, the American sheep/statists, including Democrats and republicrats, when forced with your threat, respond by demanding you take their gold, jewels, sons and anihilate them as well.
We are doomed, I live in a nation of fvcking sheep! (with a few exeptions, most of whom are posting on ZH)
BTW how is the weather in Tel Aviv?
Peace, Out!
http://1215.org/lawnotes/sovereignty/errant-sovereign-handbook.pdf
I still remember in Gone With the Wind that Scarlet OHara returned to Tara after many long years to rebuild her life.
Today Tara would not be there as the property would have been sold at tax auction after 1 year. They must not have had property taxes in those days.
When you think about it what don't they tax you on.
They tax you on your income.
They tax you on your property.
They tax you on your gains.
They tax you on your water.
They tax you on your power.
They tax you on your Car.
They tax you on your Gasoline.
They tax you on your cell phone.
They tax you on your cabel.
They tax you on everyting you purchase (except some food items.
They charge you tolls.
They charge you for the right to drive.
They charge you for tags for your car.
I am sure you can come up with even more. But, the point is that they keep trying to find new ways to Tax you.
Don't cha' know.
George Harrison figured it out almost 50 years ago.
Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah, I'm the taxman
Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
'Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah I'm the taxman
If you drive a car, I'll tax the street
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet
Don't ask me what I want it for
If you don't want to pay some more
'Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah, I'm the taxman
Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
'Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah, I'm the taxman
And you're working for no one but me
Italy is fixed. All of that earthquake rebuilding will really perk up the economy.
Taxation is theft, AMEN to that, brother and then the theives just piss it away and if that wasn't enough, they then use a credit card with NO LIMIT to buy more crap and run up their account so that a goodly portion of your stolen money is used just to pay off interest on money that was again, pissed away on things like fighting a war 8,000 miles away as if a war alone is not expensive enough, but one 8,000 miles away and just how in the hell are the enemies going to get over here, on a Carnival cruise ship? Oh man, am I PISSED!!!
I have to add my voice here,
This article is probably one of the worst that I have read on here, not because I disagree with the principle that taxation should be reduced, but that the supporting evidence that is used is cynically twisted to support a world view that I cannot subscribe to. It makes me think that the people writing here are tinfoil hat wearers who are blind to any kind of alternative world view.
Let me deconstruct:
In light of Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverinrenouncing his U.S. citizenship to live in Singapore and avoid filling the coffers of the IRS from the billions he stands to gain on the popular website’s initial public offering,
Brazilian guy - lives in the USA, moves to Singapore, why not. He has been accepted there, he was a US citizen, he doesn't want to be an American anymore, you decry him leaving the USA to avoid taxes, but the reality is that he has paid his fair share of taxes and it's the government policy of taxation on worldwide income that is really important. That's the motivation to leave.
New York Senator Chuck Schumer and Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey have introduced legislation to mandate a 30% capital gains tax on those who follow in Saverin’s footsteps.
This is a populist reaction, but if you compare this kinda treatment to the tax holidays that your biggest companies get to repatriate funds, or the double irish with a dutch sandwich - then you'll understand why it's really just a populist reaction.
In France, many entrepreneurs are gearing up to leave as newly-elected President Francois Hollande has promised to raise the highest marginal tax rate to 75%.
You gotta pay the bill for gorging at the restaurant from time to time.
Greece is being pressured to clamp down on tax evasion.
Tax evasion is the national pasttime, they have a significant black economy and greeks will charge lower prices just to avoid having to receipt work.
Even Swiss banks are being targeted by the U.S. Department of Justice for acting as tax safe havens.
If you read the deferred prosecution agreement, Swiss Banks were actively helping people avoid paying taxes that they are required to pay in the United States and were doing this by using deception. The person who whistleblew on this is in jail. There is a difference between being a tax haven (which Switzerland is not) and a low tax jurisdiction. Switzerland never advertized itself as being a tax haven, it advertized itself as a location with competitive taxation systems based on a kind of reverse auction system, which is why you see mining companies like Glencore and Xstrata incorporated in Zug (Switzerland has no natural resources)
Then you get people like Grover Norquist who make people sign up to the taxpayer protection pledge, which means that if you remove a subsidy, this is counted as raising taxes and therefore you are breaking the pledge, so ethanol producers, who were subsidised to use the corn crop to make gas, when you remove the subsidy to prop up that inefficient industry, thats considered raising taxes.
The argument should be that every economy should be one where Government (which is required, there's no utopian society that is self autonomous) provides services only to the immediately needy and support to help individuals make good decisions about how to live their life. This should be done by encouraging a competitive tax environment and fiscal responsibility.
If you want to look at examples of communities with low taxation and high level of living, social services and education, look no further than Switzerland in Zug, Schwyz, etc. Sure it's not paradise, but they do have competitive taxation, higher relative wages and education and lower crime. Also, the Swiss are required to do national service... maybe that should be implemented in the 50 also?
Look - who is CLAMPING down on Greece? Banksters. You are missing the whole point. If the Greeks decide to chase tax evaders or re-write their tax laws fine, but WHO installs a new president and then forces a country to modify behaviours. Who stands to lose if Greece defaults? Banksters. Banksters were not elected to run Greece. Banksters made bad bets. Tough shit.
Q-Ball - I'm aware of the arguments, Nigel Farage makes them better than you do, what I am saying is that the entire article written is a poor one, and while the principles are right, the events that the author uses to illustrate the argument are a distortion of the reality.
Indeed, Farage's explanation of the situation is much better than what the author has stated.
The end of the world is near ...The ten plagues of Pharaoh “have been brought upon” the USA.
http://eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2010/02/ten-plagues-of-pharaoh.html
.
World War III - The first private war in history
Those who won all battles shall lose the war.
http://eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2012/02/world-war-iii.html
Your idiotic posts plague all of us. Fuck off.
But if taxes are not collected, how on earth are Israel and the American Neo-Con groups going to afford to send their private armies, navies and air forces around the world to make conquests?
Last I checked, the total cost of USA military, veterans and intelligence/secret police operations were well north of a trillion dollars.
I'm sorry, but when I was in the Navy for 6 years, I would not want to wait for private contributions by civic minded citizens in order to light up the boilers and head to sea. War takes money, conquering Iraq was not cheap. We spend a lot flying drones and blowing up wedding parties.
We have won stupendous victories using tax dollars. We have a nation of heros moving in a wave of conquests. Who will chip in for our invasion of Iran, or do you think we can make peace with that evil empire which has attacked our freedoms.
Freedom is NOT free, we need high taxes to be paid so we can have peace and freedom and so we can spread corporate democracy to every corner of the world.
Pay up or live under Iranian muslim domination. The Kenyan Muslim President of the USA needs your money to spread peace across the globe. Who will bomb Pakistan with drone strikes if you all stop paying your taxes, how will our retired military members live if their checks don't come? The money is for a good cause. Israel can't be expected to survive without your billions and the trillion we spend on our peace maintaining military.
No taxes? NO! Our freedoms would not last if we didn't pay our soldiers.
"Taxation is theft"
So is "targeted inflation" by central banks.
Ps....
Fuck you Benny.!!!
I love my countrymen (and women)!!! Viva Italia
I wana print that picture out into 1000 posters and around 3 AM run around stapling it to all the street posts.
It would be quite an interesting bike ride the next day.
Taxation is theft? bu bu bu the govt earned my money, they give me all these benefits like free massages at the airport and free Dental X Rays too!
Not to mention all the police who run around like armed maniacs protecting and servicing the debt, god forbid the very banks that wouldn't even exist by now had it not been for the "DEBTORS" saving them with their TAX dollars (eating the cost of inflation to bail these defunct institutions out).
They get billion dollar bonusses , your house, your car, your Tax dollars and whatever they can Garnish.
You get the boot because you were dumb enough to let your government "bail them out of their fraud against you".
This world is sick and disgusting, and if you work for a bank , you should be ashamed of yourself.
In an intentional, perpetual, creeping monetary inflationist regime, taxes are merely a curb on future price inflation.
- Palyi, An Inflation Primer (1960)
The comments here show why we're all fucked. Taxation IS theft, yet look how many argue passionately in favor of being robbed. The elite get even a bigger laugh out of giving us the power to enslave ourselves through the opinion polls aka voting booths. We beat our chests exclaiming how free we are!
The controllers have spent all of recorded history trying to convince people that taxation is neccessary, and we currently have taxation and statism everywhere.
Obvioulsy people are fooled - I do think though that a growing number of people are starting to use the internet, therefore seeing information that has previously not been available - this I think is creatring a growing number who are questioning even the neccessity of a state or government - and of course taxation is first thing that most people become aware of.
Despite the general ignorance of the greater part of humanity - I think there is hope that the slave owners will finally be over thrown - then we will have change, the question then is - what will we replace it with?
The more people think and discern the issues, the higher the probability that we will see a change - and some move towards freedom.