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Guest Post: MF Global: Was It A Hit?
Submitted By Lawrence Lepard
MF Global: Was It A Hit?
Imagine you are Ben Bernanke, or on the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve. The time frame is July and August of 2011 and the price of gold is on a tear. Commodities inflation has been persistent and is breaking out everywhere. Your prediction that inflation “is contained” and is a “temporary phenomena” are beginning to look absurd. What do you do?
Simple. Hint that QE3, the primary drive of inflation, is coming and then fail to deliver at the September FOMC meeting. That takes care of the price of gold and the gold stocks. Ah, but those pesky commodities speculators keep making money and trading against what you want the markets to do. So what is to be done there? Hey Jon Corzine, how about you tank the largest broker for the small commodities punters in the world, and we let them twist in the wind? That will serve them right. Teach them to bet against the government approved scenario.
Think it did not happen? Well think again. All of the pieces fit. It sure is convenient that all those commodities speculators are now out of the box. Also, who will want to speculate on commodities in the future given customer funds are no longer protected. Furthermore, commodities speculators are not a very “All American” group. From the authorities point of view they can say: screw them, who will feel sympathy? Hell, James Bullard, Fed Governor, in an interview on CNBC yesterday said the MF Global collapse proves that the system works. Yes it does Jim, for you. Personally, I have $90,000 at MF Global and I would like to have my honestly earned money returned. Unfortunately, the odds of that happening any time soon seem slim. In part because when MF Global entered bankruptcy the judge appointed a Trustee whose law firm has done substantial work for JP Morgan, a deeply interested party. We will probably never find out what happened here. But for those of us whose eyes are open the results speak for themselves.
This whole mess stinks to high heaven. I am with Gerald Celente, if the largest commodity broker in America can go bankrupt and nothing is done, then where can you put your money and expect it to be safe? I, for one, do not accept that Jon Corzine is stupid enough to lever up MF Global 40:1 and use the proceeds and customer money to bet on European sovereign debt. This was a hit, pure and simple. That is why there is no resolution to the problem, and it is just another example of the deeply corrupt US political/financial axis. It may take money away from a bunch of commodities speculators, and it may cool down the perceived inflation, but it is just another hole in the dike which is The US Financial System. A dike whose life can probably now be measured in months, not years.
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We all make mistakes and I'm sure Corzine has made his share and I have no doubt he has enemies, probably many of them.
But this hypothesis -- it doesn't deserve to be called a theory -- that there's so many incompetent and stupid people running the world doesn't wash. It's been claimed that the entire U.S. military and air traffic control system was stupid and incompetent on 9-11 and unable to find four hijacked airliners, for example. I don't buy it. I've met many of those people and stupid they aren't. This "stupidity" excuse has been way overdone.
Explains why he's not in jail.
Could be true. But I also find it entirely credible that Corzine genuinely believed that the system was just so damn corrupt that by betting as he did that he just could not lose, after all the universe Corzine has for so long occupied is indeed corrupt to an astonishing degree. Corzine was something of a Progressive icon and was pretty far up the food chain connection wise. Most likely he just got shanked by scum he ran with. His former buddies now have the loot and he's left holding an empty bag.
A message was sent though I suspect that it wasn't with Corzine's intent or prior knowledge.
The son-of-a-bitch should hang anyway. The people want to see a hanging so give us the damn hanging!!!
Pizza is a vegetable
Balanced budgets are for countries without central banks.
This corporate socialism police state will not end until literally hundreds of thousands or millions of people go to the Federal Reserve building in DC with torches, shovels and pitchforks and demolish it with their own hands.
I am free this Sunday.
Hopefully John Corzine will end up in prison soon.
Tyler or any other market/economic/lawyer type person:
Is it possible to start building a list of crimes that John Corzine "may" have committed and not be sued for libel?
I want to know what the MSM is purposefully not reporting and since the MSM is becoming so obsolete the information can be disseminated in other ways. Haven’t heard much about Rupert Murdoch btw…
At some point, some of the people who lose everything will decide to take their own lives but before killing themselves, they will take out those who are responsible for their misery.
Well if it was it was very stupid as it has made people drop the paper markets and go physical only, the result of hoarding is always empty shelves and the collapse of paper.
In other news it's 3:00. Ramp or dump, who's gonna make the call?
ramp
Okay thanks, I'm goin all in.
My money's on the dump... which is why I've tended to lose money lately.
I know the market "never lies", but it sure as hell seems delusional these days.
of course it was a hit and it was in broad day light to send a message to everyone else to see what can/will happen
They are evil enough to do it but are they smart enough?
Can't Celente predict the future? Isn't he "The Martial Artist of Trend Forecasting"?
So why the fuck didn't he get his money out of MF Global in time?
This isn't going to be good for business Gerald.
The Martial Artist of Trend Forecasting
This isn't going to be good for business Gerald.
Most people like him though. And what's not to like? He's a Bronx boy super tough Italian American individualist who shits on the Obama Administration but loves to go on Oprah and do business through Corzine. Yep folks, a real autonomous man's man. Nietszche would be proud.
He's smart and well intentioned by he's also an annoying loud-mouth.
Then he's just like Cramer except for the smart and well-intentioned part.
His cheesy, grating, illiterate-sounding, Bronx-small-time-Mafioso accent makes him utterly unbearable to my ears.
Not a fan of Michael Savage either I take it, AK?
Not much, Vlad.
Call it a cultural difference combined with a stereotype if you will (I was raised in the upper Midwest), but loud, pushy, rude, in-your-face Easterners are the epitome of crass vulgarity to me --- I can't stand to be around such people, nor to listen to them.
I understand completely. :)
Regarding loud, brash, pushy, in-your-face, and bad accents, I somehow forgot to bring up Texans. And then there are those Aussies ...
:-)
Celente has made such a big stinkshow of his loss that it has me thinking that maybe he inten...nah, forget it.
Sweet
It's my understanding that he didn't have his money with MF. The company he had it with was bought out by MF. Should have been aware of that, but again, it's not like he called up MF Global and asked if they wanted to handle his gold futures.
when your account at one bank is bought by another, you are told over and over and your statements make it obvious. i guess you've never had a bank/brokerage account. hopefully you will find out one day.
We only rescue those who have no real money, unfortunatly MF Global did!
Ridiculous. If Corzine's inflated ego told him to fly and quack like a duck he would. And as far as the ma&pa commodity "punters", they are generally universal losers, and there aren't enough of them even if you got them all together to do the same thing you couldn't push any market anywhere for too long.
This was case of hubris, irresponsibility and failure of supervision. The CME doesn't look too bright in their handling of things either. But it is a crony system with crony leaders. It is just further proof of our leadership void in the western world.
Hahaha!
if his money's tied up w/ MF, he certainly is w/ celente!
I can't stand these conspiracy hacks; I understand that trust in the system has been destroyed, but lets at least try to be somewhat rational. MF was sunk by a bad bet pure and simple, the effects of which are unknown and certainly it has the potential to be a water-shed moment. Also, rogue traders are becoming endemic to the system, as these markets become less predictable and more volatile its only a matter of time before we see more. The simple explanation is usually the right one.
I can't stand these conspiracy hacks; I understand that trust in the system has been destroyed, but lets at least try to be somewhat rational.?
There is a disconnect in that statement. Is it not a conspiracy fact that the trust has been destroyed in the system specifically because of conspiracies beween banks, government, and wall street for the housing bubble and the consequential loss of faith in the system? Not much of a hack there.
Conspiracy theorists in my opinion see everything but the truth, pure and simple. Trust has been lost because those that fail are bailed out at the expense of those that succeed; you don't need some complex theory to see this. A conspiracy theory is an emotional rant in my opinion, understandable, but unhelpful.
This wasn't a rouge trader...this was an institutional decision to plunder client accounts that necessarily had to be approved/known about at mulitple levels of the company. That necessarily entails a conspiracy. In fact, I suspect that if people DO go to jail, criminal conspiracy will be one of the charges most likely to stick. And like most crimes, for every ONE that is discovered, ten have been committed and more are being planned. This is not just an MF Global problem.
As an aside, you don't see the institutionalization of bailing out those that fail at the expense of those that succeed as a conspiracy against honest, success oriented people? I do. Count me with the conspiracy theorists.
I think that there may be quite a number of folks commenting here that have never, ever won a game of chess (you know, understanding your opponents options and planning 4-7 moves ahead).
I agree that there was probably no conspiracy but it seems to me that the co-mingling of client funds is a crime for which everyone involved should go to prison for a long long time (and I mean real prison where your cell mate is three hundred pound deviant with several mental disorders and a half a dozen STDs.)
Rogue traders are not becoming more common - it is just that in periods of high volatility they get caught more often. Like Warren Buffett said: when the tide goes out you find out who has been swimming naked.
MF Global bankruptcy was a wake up call to everybody.
If you do not pull your money out of the system after this and put it in physical precious metals and hide it somewhere other than cartel vaults, you and your savings will be Next, all your life savings will be gone and don't tell anybody that you were not warned or you had no idea.
Shit, even the people doing the warning lost a significant amount of savings - Celente (love you still guy). I have stopped warning people on my side, but now those whom I have warned are coming to ask me questions.
One texted me last night and asked why all of the reality shows were now around cooking, guns, and digging for gold. I said it would be the sign of the bubble (like flipping home reality shows) or the proverbial beans, bullion, and bullets taking mainstream.
Funny observation. But true. Is it social uncurrents creating this demand, or is the tail wagging the dog here? Hard to tell. But, the trend is there. Same as the housing shows before the bubble burst.
hint: television is fully controlled medium - it's a massive tail wagging a huge couch potato CON'd-sumer. NOTHING real happening on the tube, ever.
Print Baby Print. Gold and silver to the roof because of Bernanke.
libertarian86.blogspot.com
Celente has a BIG mouth... sorry he lost his bread but a little humble pie will help cool his act down...
if everyone had a big mouth as celente, how far would this whole friggin fraud go?
if Corzine went to jail, i'd bet 40:1 he'd keep his mouth shut! /sarc.
Tho I bet he won't be able to keep his butt shut...
ZH playing catch up.
Keep going down that rabbit hole.
http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/62054268
Fed-sponsored hit....and gov't-backed!!!
...all the while wall street easily cons not-so-smart cops/gov't to trash OWS!!!
What a zany world we live in.
The eurozone currency union needs a much higher Gold price if it is to survive in its current form , the dollar is a petro token and needs this like a hole in the head.
Add in the Goldman / US treasury boys working their way through the Euro system and you get a very nervous Dork.
Beginning to switch my Euros in $$$$$$$$$$$$ now.
The author is probably correct, I'll even add that perhaps there were several customers at MF that intended on taking delivery, which may or may not have busted CRIMEX. However, Joe/Jane Sixpack and Black Friday shopper will not care until the day they can't get their money out of a bank, their employers check won't cash at the bank, the grocery shelves are empty and they have to trade that financed diamond ring for a gallon of gas or a loaf of stale bread.
This whole fiasco plays into the class warfare. Joe/Jane don't care, it was just a bunch of rich guys. Most American's live paycheck to paycheck and have no understanding about anything relating to investments, business regulations, exposure, risk, taxes, overhead, responsibility, blah, blah, blah. Intentional, willful ignorance.
Watching them wake up, is going to be very sad.
Hey, can't we have an update on those charts that shows the amount of reserves held on the COMEX? Tyler? THANK YOU!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0kpsOXQV3w&feature=player_embedded
Another canary bites the dust.
MF Global was a fraud from beginning to end.
Read:
http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Wealth-Mr-Andrew-Costello/dp/1463523017/ref
It was a theft.
Corzine used other peoples money to bail out associates.
Who was bailed out of their deteriorating positions?
Motive, means and opportunity -- that's what's necessary to do a crime such as this.
I don't believe Corzine could have pulled this off by himself. Means?
I also wonder what his motive could possibly have been. He must have been pulling at least 7 figures per year. That's a lot more than he can get making license plates.
Opportunity?
There's a lot more to this story than we've heard so far. I won't be surprised if Corzine is found dead or not found at all. I wonder if he'll be as considerate as Vince Foster was and wipe the gun clean after he suicides.
They lie, they cheat, they steal and they kill.
Since you say your eyes are "wide open", WTF were you doing with funds in the U.S. to begin with? You didn't learn anything from REFCO?
Hey, I'm sorry you got burned, but WTF. The evidence has been clear for many years that the CFTC, NFA, and last-but-not-least the CME are a bunch of shills and crooks. Evidence is everywhere.
Trade through places that are "offshore". When was the last time anybody in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter go down with customer money? Only in the U.S. Larry.
Anybody still left with a trading account anywhere in the U.S. is an idiot. Pure and simple.
http://vegasxau.blogspot.com
Trade through places that are offshore. Care to elaborate? Most countries do not want US based accounts.
Not true.
Here is a list of brokerage houses that currently accept US customers:
http://www.100forexbrokers.com/fx/broker_results.php
Go here if you want to list your own criteria for an account:
http://www.100forexbrokers.com/fx/broker_search.php
There are a few I would recommend and do business with:
Hotforex
Forex-Metal
You can trade xauusd with both - they don't care if you are US
With HotForex, not only can you trade xauusd, but you can trade xaueur, xagusd, and xageur. In addition, you got all the world stock indices as well as US and UK oil. With HotForex, you can trade gold in 1 oz. increments; with forex-metal it is 10 oz increments. Trade in 50 oz increments in silver [dollar or euro] with Hotforex
Spreads at forex-Metal are fixed, variable at Hotforex.
HotForex spreads in gold are very good. Usually 10 - 30 cents between bid/ask. At night it goes to about 50 cents.
visit my blog to learn more about HotForex
http://vegasxau.blogspot.com
HotForex.
Hmmm.
My nose is twitching over Canada - USA - Australia scams. I don't want to pollute your pitch, but something there is digging up a past pest removal. It may be nothing more than a dodgy outfit using the index, and having scalping being a fundamental 'right', but my nose is twitching.
Might be purely a con-group who targeted online investments that also used HotForex - I can remember the names, and the faces, but not the details of how they were using HotForex to profit.
Truth be told... it all goes into a blur when the target is down.
Point well taken. My bad.
they guy is watching too much conspiracy TV.
Go find your Mr. X
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbUF8qE8zWA
Of course it was an inside job done by yet another Goldman alumnus, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the framework of this intended collapse wasn't drawn up by Hank and the rest of the cronies. All these stories day in and day out are nothing more then a mere distraction so the GLOBAL EXTRACTION SYNDICATE can continue to peck away at what's left of the American Dream's carcass. The sucking sound is getting louder and louder everyday, Europe is toast , the grand finale is approaching, the largest heist in world history is happening right under your sniffling noses and the end to this el grande charade is coming sooner then most of you think...
Whether it was a "hit" or not, history will decide. The evidence is that it was a straight "take the money and run" swindle. The level of deceit certainly says that it couldn't have been done without regulatory help. We can be certain that no one is guarding the guards,
http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/the-daily-climb-2/
Bingo!
ANYONE who trades with the banking vipers & theives can expect the same - the theft of their earned wealth.
This isnt a game, it is a war - to eliminate private possessions of everyone but the elite. We must stop believing that this is some off the wall conspiracy theory. It is an ancient and very well conceived plan that is being carried out in plain view.
Well the Chinese would know how to deal with the shitbags at MF Global.
Chinese Fund Managers Sentenced to Death after Cheating Investors out of 1 Billion USD
HANGZHOU – Two brothers and their father were sentenced to death on Monday for cheating 15,000 investors out of over $1.1 billion in east China’s Zhejiang province.
Ji Wenhua, president of the Yintai Real Estate and Investment Group, was sentenced to death for the crime of fund-raising fraud, said the Intermediate People’s Court in the city of Lishui, where the company was based.
That solves the repeat offender problem.
Spot on. Not all capital controls are codified and explicit.
Matters not. The PMs will eventually rise to unimagined heights courtesy of the Asian small investor. When there's no more....there's no more.
Just wanna say thanks for the posted article. The truth is, there are men pulling levers behind the curtains and more people are starting to question their own Pollyanna-ish world views because of this blowup. A good thing. The wailing of the widows and destitute will be the painful part. People are going to lose all their money without a clue of how these things are done.
"The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice--it is conformity."
How about, you tell Corzine that you are aware of his foul practices but would offer him a pardon and even convince JT to smoke a peace pipe with him, if he runs wreckage over the cliff. If he is still not in, you remind him of his alma mater's dogma, and that this is a very substantial part of God's work, and he has a chance to contribute, as martyr.
Interesting thesis. Makes sense.
Make JT a DT, but Corzine probably has xT enemies.
To publish this on a site which usually sticks to "facts" and "news" is ludicrous.
I also have funds frozen with MF Global (Australia). Your article has absoltutely no evidence to back up your hypothesis.
How about this for a hypothesis? Greedy prop traders at Motherf***ckersGlobal made an extremely bad hugely leveraged trade, and didn't have the guts to get out at a massive loss (which would have cost someone his career) Instead they let it turn into a crippling loss, and then made the decision to fuck their customers as well, since the firm exists to benefit not its shareholders but employees.
It really does seem a lot simpler than you make out. And in any case, a single point of data would be nice backing up your case.
It is a theory. It is a little difficult to have the facts when the other side is in control of the information. You call it ludicrous. I call it following the known evidence to logical conclusions. To each their own.
19 USA employees.
Primary Dealer position.
Large connections to Political Power.
That alone is a huge tell. Break down the other 21 in terms of employees and so on, and see if this was an outlier. Was it?
I think the writer's personal loss is clouding his judgment. Frankly, no one gives a shit about the at-risk capital of MF Global's "clients." Most people have around $100k to $1MM with MF, which is nothing at all except in the most thinly-traded markets (like palladium). Sure some hedgies may use MF to place bets, but, no to this theory. Much bigger commodity players who laugh at Corzine and are far more sophisticated when frontrunning and price manipulating the CME.
Sure, take the Glencores and HSBCs, pretty much independent from MFG, but look at it as if it was a NJ autumn movement. If you frontrun the market and the - in this model - required sheeple cannot follow but are trapped, margin called, robbed, the market as a whole devalues and hurts your long position.
I assume, the article was not meant as a direct shot at the small and medium players, but more as a botnet-like attack at the big players and their inflationary, manipulating commodities long strategy.
Margin hikes were the wake up call for the botnet, with the MFG consequences, the botnet is armed and the next move could well let it detonate.
Hail to the absoluteness of the USD.
In terms of collusion and conflict of interest, consider JPM and the big silver short and the JPM/Fed ties. Doesn't it make sense?
same hit-job on bac - they're outsiders, and never belonged to the club
lehman's demise was also a hit-job - just look at where the pieces ended up
someone had to go, and it sure the hell wasn't gonna be 'gs, jpmc, wf, aig, or c'
btw - 'ms' is a problem for gs,... starting to cramp their space - so look for an endogenous/ exogenous event
jmo
btw - agree wholeheartedly on the article
With all the super Marios and Pap'ets in place, GS now owns the infrastructure and can make it wobble here and there just enough to let MS lose their not so firm footing with regard to EUR exposure or IR swaps.
If you shake the tree, some apple will fall, netting plainly assumes, all apples remain on the tree, though. Interesting, I never heard the netting buzzword from the squid's mouth. As in 08, to them, it is not netting, it is maintaining a politically necessary small long position and short the hell out of any peripheral/weaker apple. Long Bunds and long Unicredit CDS may also be net zero, mathematically.
IMO there is a positive and a negative feedback loop in netting derivatives, the negative loop emerges with counterparty risk, the positive feedback loop is being neutral with regard to priced assets, hiding a prop bias. Bunds and Unicredit CDS are just not comparable and hence cannot be hedged/netted. So, you may bet on Italy going down within weeks and it will not be reflected in your derivative nets. Nice side effect: Anyone else, truely neutral will suffer from the negative feedback loop, once you start the wobbling.
let commodities and precious metals fall. More for me to buy at lower prices AND TAKE PHYSICAL DELIVERY OF.
December is the biggest month for gold delivery. I guess with this bankruptcy the Comex will be delivering alot less than anticipated. Nice timing?
Imagine you are Ben Bernanke, or on the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve. The time frame is October and Novermber of 2011 and the price EU periphery debt is on a tear downward. Contagion has been persistent and is breaking out everywhere. Your prediction that contagion "is contained” and is a “temporary phenomena” are beginning to look absurd. What do you do?
Simple. Hint that a Euro Fix to the debt cotagion, the primary drive of inflation, is coming and then fail to deliver at one of your biweekly Euro summits. That takes care of the price and yields of the periphery bonds. Ah, but those pesky ZeroHedge readers/speculators keep making money and trading against what you want the markets to do. So what is to be done there? Hey Assclown Kreiger or Douchbag Ratigan, how about you writing some of that weird tinfoil hatted, whackjob stuff that you only read about in the discredited legacy medial like the NYT, the FT or the Economist, for the ZeroHedge community punters in the world, and we let them twist in the wind? That will serve them right. Teach them to bet against the government approved scenario.
Think it did not happen? Well think again. All of the pieces fit. To a tee.... :-)
Brilliant! Peter K
Imagine you are Ben Bernanke...
Okay... I am a bald, bearded, clueless front man for a criminal banking cartel...
When one of the head cartel financial terrorists Jamie Dimon comes to you and says...
"Okay... I am a bald, bearded, clueless front man for a criminal banking cartel..." LMAO
Makes sense. They believe anything that threatens them, even (or especially) as a direct consequence of their own incompetence and corruption, is the enemy. They are in "war" mode. Commodities long specs were the target. The small farmers who had futures accounts (I know one) for hedging production are just collateral damage -- I mean hell, it's not like they are AMD or something.
They cant even bothered to make up a rogue trader story .. they just dont make financial collapses like they used to!
i called the mf global mess a grudge fuck yesterday and am glad to see other confirmation.....of course it was a hit...just the same as the rockefeller cia murdering john kennedy....
I can't help mentioning the following:
Ever notice that FBI director, Robert Mueller, is a grandnewphew of Richard Bissell, one of the three CIA doods JFK fired (Dulles, Bissell and Cabell).
And what's Mueller's wife's maiden name?
Ann Cabell Standish.... (Please see list of three names above).
Kennedy was assasinated by the military industrial complex. The evidence is overwhelming. If they can kill a President, how hard can stealing $600 million be.
This is radically clever thinking, and quite probably correct.
But I really have never believed Corzine to be particularly intelligent, so if it did occur in the manner posited, Corzine was completely duped.
Or else it just occurred 'cause Corzine is a stooge.
Celente got it spot on, the crooks are in complete and open control and this is global rape and pillage in the name of saving us from a worse outcome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evquaoWOubY
Prosecutor : You're only making it worse for yourself!
Defendant : Making it worse? ... how could it be worse?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R_hlMK7tCks
Be still and allow us to quietly rob you, for your own good, with a helpful smile and maybe a handshake, as we search for contractual ways to save you from a fate far worse. Only you haven't been saved you've only been robbed.
The principles and outcomes of a daylight robbery are not changing but information technology sure makes it extremely easy and very low-risk, no masks and shotguns, just a suit and an iPad, and it's virtually impossible to combat formally, once the crooks are big enough to buy-off the whole system, to guarantee they are never prosecuted.
Leaving only one option, right between the eyes, and as this song says near the end, "...the final-solution is YOU!".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WSBD3JFIgVw
This is the essence of believing in rational markets and even playing fields - wrong, it's irrational. You are a speculator, does anyone ever believe that the bigger fish, ie Goldman Squid and Co. would let us bottom feeders get away with something that would seriously fuck up their profits? Lepore and Celente doesn't belong to their club, neither do everyone else who believes that they are big dogs. The game has changed folks, there are no honesty in speculation when the financial world is crumbling. Anyone who ever believed that bankers are there for the service of the people, just look back in history and you will see the gang rapes they have committed since the beginning of time - they are money lenders making huge profits and bonuses without doing anything that benefits our society. Corzine did hid deed and fucked up royally, and I don't think he would idiotically dirty up his name in the name of Bernanke, that's utterly conspiracy theory in my mind.
Hey,you all know where the FED(not) building is.....
Must not be tear down proof.
Hey, Lawrence ( and any other interested parties ) is this what happened?
http://www.myspace.com/tom_heneghan_intel/blog
CHECK IT OUT!
Er, that looks a little far fetched. Assume you making fun of the conspiracy angle. Look I cannot prove that MF Global was a conspiracy and I am open minded to the possibility that Corzine is not as smart as he should be and just fucked up. However, even if that is the case, the smoking gun here is that no one gives a shit and no one is being prosecuted. How hard can it be to find out where the money went? It was not laying around in a drawer. There are forensic records. Also, the fact that the Trustee has done work for JP Morgan is a BLATANT conflict. If the loss is only 10% why not release the other customer funds? Something is just not right here. I don't have all the facts. The parties to the crime are concealing them. However, a black letter law was broken when customer funds were put at risk. Whoever broke that law should be in handcuffs. The CME which earns $600 mm per quarter pre tax should entirely fill the gap. Fed Govenor Bullard was almost chortling over how well the MF Global failure went. Yes, it did Jim from the Fed's perspective.
It sure is convenient for the purveyors of fiat money that 70,000 commodity speculators cannot access their money.
All I am saying is something is not right.........
No offence guys, but if your avitar does not have a good looking pair of boobs...... I will not read it. that is the best I can do to bring back the boobs.
jmc8888 yoou were talking so much,I could not hear you.
What did you say.
Nothing,I am guessing.
Say what you like, I had $25,000.00 sitting in cash in my MF account waiting for QE 3 to go long gold and short the long bond. Along with tens of thousands of others with the same idea, I am sure.
Did the cash lying dead in accounts get too large for the comfort of the Fed? Was this particular PD simply doing its "duty"?
It is certainly within the realm of possibility.
Finally something is starting to make sense here.
Okay. Then, MF Global situation an introductary course on covert operations for those who did not know of such realities.
And, notice the author's use if inductive logic the posit the real story. Doesn't get hungup on proof or seek absolute truths. If the observations fit the speculation, take appropriate caution, such as quiet paranoia, to safeguard what one considers vulnerable to tyranny and other outcomes.
Yes I believe MFG was an inside job, planned in advance. It's why nobody will be prosecuted, just like nobody was prosecuted in '08, it was an inside job planned in advance, just like nobody was prosecuted re MERS, it was an inside job planned in advance, just like nobody was prosecuted re 9/11, it was an inside job planned in advance, just like nobody was prosectued re all the previous inside jobs planned in advance.
White-collar criminal mobs run financial markets now. You have to stay out of those markets.
Stay in non-paper physical markets they don't control.
And by the way, you think MFG is bad? It's nothing compared to the 401k / IRA / pension fund looting coming down the pike.
Maybe MFG is a dress rehersal, seeing how the sheep will respond. And based on the lack of any real response from sheeple losing boatloads of money, I suspect they feel confident about moving ahead.
that's why conspiracy theorists look funky...
dude, he was probably just a moron. And that doesn't mean he shouldn't serve as much time in prison as if he did it on purpouse. Afterall, that's why we're in this fuck up. Environment doesn't punish you anymore for being an imbecile and apparently society thinks it's a reason for special treatment instead of taking over this part where nature can't punish itself anymore.
A muppet could trade commodities. They have been going up for years. Second MF Global was leveraged 40 - 1 in 2010, and 32 to 1 in 2009 and 40 to 1 in 2008, so they actually had the same leverage after the financial crisis.
I think you are mistaken. Jon Corzine was a total idiot.
"I think you are mistaken. Jon Corzine was a total idiot." TGS
That is my back up scenario. It is certainly possible. Hubris, connections, etc. However, the resolution of the issue certainly is advantageous for the FEDS in terms of taking 70,000 commodities specs out of the game.
If Corzine just fucked up, then what is the CME thinking? They have a $16.5 Billion market cap, make $572 million a quarter in EBITDA and brag about how commodities customers of member firms have never lost a dime of their account money: EVER! So there is a $600 million short fall and they decide to let the customers twist in the wind? Basically they can kiss their $2.5 billion per year cash flow and their $16.5 Billion market cap goodbye. What is that all about? If the MF Global customers are not made whole, who would ever trade with a CME member firm again?
#1: Anyone who thought Corzine understood risk is an idiot. #2: Remember his car crash in '07. No seat belt. Going 90 MPH. #1: Retarded.31 Oct
Do you really think commodities even need to be traded to determine price?
The Onion Futures Act (7 U.S.C Chapter 1 § 13-1) is a United States law banning the trading of futures contracts on onions. In 1955 two onion traders, Sam Seigel and Vincent Kosuga, cornered the onion futures market on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. The resulting regulatory actions led to the passing of the act on August 28, 1958. It remains in effect as of 2011.
Onion futures trading began on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange in the mid-nineteen forties as an attempt to replace the income lost when butter futures contract ceased.[1] By the mid-nineteen fifties, onions futures contracts were the most traded product on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. In 1955, they accounted for 20% of its trades.[2]
Market manipulationIn the fall of 1955, Seigel and Kosuga bought enough onions and onion futures so that they controlled 98 percent of the available onions in Chicago.[3] Millions of pounds of onions were shipped to Chicago to cover their purchases. By late 1955, they had stored 30,000,000 pounds (14,000,000 kg) of onions in Chicago.[4] They soon changed course and convinced onion growers to begin purchasing their inventory by threatening to flood the market with onions if they did not.[4] Seigel and Kosuga told the growers that they would hold the rest of their inventory in order to support the price of onions.[5]
As the growers began buying onions, Seigel and Kosuga purchased short positions on a large amount of onion contracts.[4] They also arranged to have their stores of onions reconditioned because they had started to spoil. They shipped them outside of Chicago to have them cleaned and then repackaged and re-shipped back to Chicago. The new shipments of onions caused many futures traders to think that there was an excess of onions and further drove down onion prices in Chicago. By the end of the onion season in March 1956, Seigel and Kosuga had flooded the markets with their onions and driven the price of 50 pounds (23 kg) of onions down to 10 cents a bag.[4] In August 1955, the same quantity of onions had been priced at $2.75 a bag.[5] So many onions were shipped to Chicago in order to depress prices that there were onion shortages in other parts of the United States.[6]
Seigel and Kosuga made millions of dollars on the transaction due to their short position on onion futures.[3] At one point, however, 50 pounds (23 kg) of onions were selling in Chicago for less than the bags that held them. This drove many onion farmers into bankruptcy.[3] A public outcry ensued among onion farmers who were left with large amounts of worthless inventory.[7] Many of the farmers had to pay to dispose of the large amounts of onions that they had purchased and grown.[8]
Never lost money huh?
This historical case, while interesting, is irrelevant to what happened at MF Global. MF Global lost customer funds that were in segregated accounts and were not at risk. For example, you could have had a flat account at MF Global with no commodities positions and nothing but cash. Black letter law says that is your money and MF cannot touch it. But they did and then they lost some of it.
Commodities brokerage firms have been failing for years. But one rule which was sacrosanct is that the firm went down, the customer accounts did not. The CME even claims this in their marketing literature. If this rule is broken it will be a BIG DEAL
My point was to point out with the financial sector anything can happen. MF Global Commodity Speculators are the farmers in this new story. Farmers who only farm in profits from the people who do the work. Goldman Sachs perverted the commodity trade, which the Commodities Futures Trading Board allowed. And yes that woman from the government who worked at the Commodities Futures Trading branch allowed that but said CDS's were bad. Total hypocrit. Like I said a muppet could have made money "buying" commodities. Good luck farmer, I highly doubt they are going to "find" your money.
"I make a living off the dumb money," commodity trader Emil van Essen told Businessweek last year. Commodity traders employed by the banks that had created the commodity index funds in the first place rode the tides of profit.
Unfortunately for Pat Quinn, they lobbyed for the wrong company to stay in Illinois and gave them a huge tax subsidy, while everybody else pays a higher tax rate.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/27/how_goldman_sachs_creat...
Makes sense... but what does Celente have to do with it (wasted energy IMO).
Bottom line is what do we learn... there is virtually no end to the tools at the disposal of Cabal in their effort to control PM prices. CME margin calls have run it's course... over to Shangai to follow up on the MF hit (makes more sense than any other explaination I've heard to date so I assume it was a hit to cool off the commodities).
As a serious PM investor (all in) I've been hit hard several times in 2011. It is clear the bankers have a bottomless store of corrupt actions to hit the metals on every price spike so I'll be selling into each new spike (with no intent of picking the top) and buying back after each subsequent hit.
This is not the time for retreat (they are clearly growing more desperate)... time to step up and stick it to Blythe, Jamie, and rest of sociopaths.
The commodity speculators at MF Global were the little people, not the 0.01%, so they were taken to the cleaners. It is just like the difference between the Gold and Silver owners. Silver gets clobbered all the time rather than Gold, because the little people (all the rest of the 99.99%) tend to own Silver, and the 0.01% tend to own Gold (and in huge quantities.)
By their standards, it all makes perfect sense.
MF Global Explained:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLt05sN7vK0