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Guest Post: The Real-World Middle Class Tax Rate: 75%

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Charles Hugh Smith from Of Two Minds

The Real-World Middle Class Tax Rate: 75%

If we include all taxes, the real-world tax rate is much higher than the "official" income tax rate.

For those Americans earning between $34,500 and $106,000, the real-world middle class tax burden in high-tax locales is 15% + 25% + 5% + 15% + 15% = 75%. Yes, 75%.

Before you start listing the innumerable caveats and quibbles raised by any discussion of taxes, please hear me out first. Let's start by defining "taxes" as any fee that is mandated by law or legal necessity. In other words, taxes are what is not optional.

If we include all taxes, the real-world tax rate is much higher than the "official" income tax rate. These "other taxes" vary from nation to nation. France, for example, has a "television tax." It is mandatory, and since virtually every household has a TV this operates as a universal tax. The argument that this is "optional" is specious.

In every other advanced democracy, basic universal healthcare is paid by tax revenues. In the U.S., healthcare insurance is "optional" but this too is specious: in the real world, private healthcare insurance is mandatory because the alternative--having zero insurance--places your entire net worth and income at risk of catastrophic loss.

Having no healthcare insurance only makes sense if you have no real assets and a low income. At that point, your care will be provided by the taxpayer-funded Medicaid program, which is the default universal-care program in the U.S.

For this reason I consider the cost of private healthcare insurance in the U.S. the equivalent of a tax. We pay over $12,000 annually for barebones healthcare insurance, which amounts to about 15% of our gross income. Some countries pay for healthcare with a 15% tax, here we pay the 15% directly. There is no difference except the process of collecting the 15%. (The only real difference is that healthcare costs twice as much per person in the U.S. because the system is operated by cartels whose business model is fraud, opaque pricing and the elimination of competition via Central State regulation.)

Yes, the super-wealthy can absorb a $150,000 hospital bill, but the 99.9% cannot. Thus any claim that healthcare insurance is "optional" is specious.

Property tax is mandatory. Some countries have no property tax, others do. Once again, only counting social-insurance and income taxes as the "official tax rate" is horrendously misleading. For countries without property taxes, the revenues are collected as value-added taxes (VAT) or higher income taxes. One way or another, the services paid by property taxes in the U.S. are paid by other tax schemes in countries without property taxes. So property taxes must be included in any accounting of total taxes paid.

Many of us who reside in states such as Illinois, New York, New Jersey and California pay $12,000 or more annually in property taxes. That is about 15% of our household income.

Renters pay the property taxes indirectly, but to the degree that rents would be lower if property taxes were eliminated and the tax burden shifted to a VAT, then renters "pay" the tax just like property owners.

Employees looking at the paycheck stubs do not see the entire tax paid on their labor. Empoyees may wonder why their net pay has stagnated for decades. One reason is that the total compensation costs of employees has risen substantially.

To give but one example of many, Social Security taxes were once modest, 3% paid by the employee and 3% paid by the employer for a total of 6% of the wage. Now the total for Social Security (12.4%) and Medicare (2.9%) is 15.3%. Self-employed people pay the total 15.3% as "self-employment tax." This is the real-world tax burden of Social Security and Medicare.

The 15.3% Social Security/Medicare tax starts with dollar one of net income. The Social Security tax goes away above around $106,000 in income, the Medicare tax does not.

Most employees do not know how much healthcare insurance "tax" is paid by their employer. To the degree that wages would rise if the healthcare "tax" was not paid by employers, then employees pay for this "tax" indirectly. To act like it isn't a mandatory part of compensation costs is both specious and misleading.

The only transparent way to calculate the total tax burden is to count all taxes (or equivalent) paid by self-employed property owners. Not counting the indirect taxes of healthcare and property taxes is misleading to the point of blatant misrepresentation.

The basic Federal income tax gives each individual earner $9,500 in standard deductions and exemptions. The tax rate for all income above that is:

$1 to $8,500: 10%
$8,501 to $34,500: 15%
$34,501 to $83,600: 25%
$83,601 to $174,400: 28%
$174,401 to $379,150: 33%
Above $379,151: 35%

These rates are scheduled to rise at the end of 2012 unless Congress acts to maintain rates at current levels.

Many households have gigantic interest deductions stemming from gigantic mortgages, but let's set aside outsized debt-based tax deductions as far from universal.

Above a rather modest $34,600 in taxable income and up to around $106,000, the real-world middle class tax burden in high-tax American locales is 75%:

Social Security and Medicare: 15.3%
Federal income tax: 25% (28% above $83,600)
State income tax: 5% (mid-range)
Healthcare insurance: 15%
Property tax: 15%

15% + 25% + 5% + 15% + 15% = 75%

Clearly, the percentage of income devoted to healthcare insurance and property taxes declines as income rises. Someone earning $200,000 has not only dropped the 12.4% Social Security tax for income above $106,000, healthcare insurance and property taxes as a percentage of their income drops from about 30% for those earning around $86,000 to 15%.

We can argue fruitlessly about how many tax angels can dance on the head of a pin, but all the caveats and quibbles don't change the basic fact that real-world tax rate for the "middle class" earning more than $34,500 in taxable income in high-tax locales is a confiscatory 75%.

Please don't tell me the U.S. is a "low-tax" nation; I might suffer a breakdown that I couldn't afford due to exclusions in my "voluntary" healthcare coverage.

 

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Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:25 | 2589216 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

All your income are belong to us.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:39 | 2589279 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

your forgeting sales tax in some states. What do you do with your FRN's when you get them, you buy stuff and get taxed. so add another 8% to the list for those states with sales taxes

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:45 | 2589310 WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot's picture

Sales tax doesn't apply to your gross income, only to that portion which you use to buy retail goods. That can also be offset by idealmeat's suggestion below - boycott retail to the extent possible.

In any case, there are a number of problems with the article when you get into the specifics, but the point is the same: those of us in the US live under a confiscatory police state regime. I did some quick calculations and figured that my real rate is much lower than 75% - more like 45%. But then I thought about it for 1/2 a second - 45%!!!. All for what? The privilege of getting spied on and treated like a criminal? Awesome.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:49 | 2589325 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

The only activity that the governments so far have not taxed is sex between consenting adults without the formal exchange of dollars.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:53 | 2589348 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

They don't want to discourage the creation of new tax payers. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:04 | 2589394 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

As long as you aren't married! We pay 5000.00 more a year in income taxes for the privilege. Another reason to not get married sad to say. Sex sure better be good for that price! :-)

Miffed:-)

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:14 | 2589439 Precious
Precious's picture

Property tax is only mandatory if you own property.  No one says you must own property.

Liquor tax is only mandatory if you elect to purchase liquor. No one says you must drink liquor.

Cigarette tax is only mandatory if you elect to purchase cigarettes. No one says you must smoke cigarettes.

Income tax is only mandatory if you elect to earn a wage.  No one says you must have a job.

Car insurance is mandatory only if you elect to own a car.  No one says you must drive a car.

Healthcare insurance or tax is mandatory if you are breathing.  Doesn't matter if you ever get medical help or not.

Figure it out yet?  See the pattern?  The pattern is this:  No one fucking cares about the rule of law anymore.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:19 | 2589456 reader2010
reader2010's picture

The beauty is they're working on a worldwide O2 tax for the blood-sucking elites. As long as you consume oxygen, you pay.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:26 | 2589472 Precious
Precious's picture

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:47 | 2589547 flacon
flacon's picture

Property tax is only mandatory if you own property.

 

I rent. I pay the owners property taxes in my rent....  

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:58 | 2589596 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Social Security and Medicare: 15.3%

Regressive tax, the rich pay less.


Federal income tax: 25% (28% above $83,600)

The better your accountant is the less you pay.  It can be progressive.


State income tax: 5% (mid-range)

The rich move to Florida where there is no state tax.


Healthcare insurance: 15%

Regressive tax.


Property tax: 15%

No deduction for this one.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:02 | 2589605 economics9698
economics9698's picture

And do not forget the baby tax.  Have a baby out of wedlock or divirce and you will pay 25%, 50% 120% of your income to someone else.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:04 | 2589611 economics9698
economics9698's picture

The Yids figured out how to get the white people to become extinct.  Who needs war?

 

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:16 | 2589633 Precious
Precious's picture

Keep yer gold in a hole, yer gun warm and handy, and yer dick in yer pants --- and no other ways round.

Them's the real rules of the fight club...

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 17:49 | 2590259 NumNutt
NumNutt's picture

They forgot to mention that we are also double taxed on money we don't have. If you still have a job, look at your pay stub, they take Federal taxes based on your gross pay, then they take SS based on the same gross pay amount, not on what was left over after federal taxes. Then they do the same thing for Medicare, & State......all based on that gross pay amount. I love paying taxes on money I don't have......sonsabitches...

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:37 | 2589506 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

I think you got it upside down, UN's masterplan is "as long as you exhale CO2, you pay", that is what all this global bloody warming is/was about

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:39 | 2589522 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Property tax isn't optional if you live anywhere but the wilderness - it's built into all rents, duh.

None of those other taxes are really optional for similar reasons either if you buy anything made by some one who smokes, drinks, or drives....they're built into a price you pay for the things they make.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:49 | 2589762 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Any tax is only mandatory if you have a pulse. See the con? 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 15:52 | 2589989 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

Wrong.  You are forgetting the inheritiance tax.  You got taxed upon death too.

 

"Now my advice for those who die;

  Declare the pennies on your eyes "

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 16:25 | 2590106 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

when i'm dead it won't matter much.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:47 | 2589551 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Marriage doesn't make sex any better.   Trust me on that one!

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 18:53 | 2590410 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

True.  It only makes it less frequent.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:36 | 2589510 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

If you apply the recent Supreme Court logic that a fine is a tax (I tend to agree with that logic), then that scenario has been taxed extensively, due to laws regulating personal sexual behavior (particularly homosexual behavior).  

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:18 | 2589451 narnia
narnia's picture

Government spending is paid the price you pay for taxable transactions.  This includes direct taxes (income tax) that cover involuntary purchases, the inflation tax from deficits, regulatory taxes from stupid rules (like price fixing of wages & prohibitions) & the associated compliance, off balance sheet future taxes from other crazy interventions, consumption & property taxes, and fees & compliance for licensing and all other crap that the state can assert its tentacles, 

I bet the REAL tax rate is close to 95%.  The market price for stuff we need and would voluntarily purchase absent government intevention would be pennies on the $ for what it cost us to maintain this death star.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 15:09 | 2589794 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Saying the article has a number of problems is a vast understatement. Clearly not a lot of math experts on ZH.

 

First of all, you can't take the various tax rates and add them together and come up with some arbitrary figure (in this case 75%) - yes grade school students this figure is incorrect! 

In order to get to any sensible number you'd actually have to move (gasp!) beyound addition. I know that's hard to believe for all the anti-education folks around here but there is actually math beyond addition and subtraction. 

 

Outside of Charles' "real world tax rate" idiocy there is an actual formula for arriving at a better estimate of tax burden than posted rates.

 

 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/09/effective-tax-rates

And here's how it works (c/o wiki) so you can calculate your actual tax burden:

 

  • Let  be the effective tax rate.
  • Let  be the tax liability.
  • Let  be the taxable income.
  • Let  be the nontaxable income.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/math/e/2/7/e2775c4bad2b6f60d238...

An effective tax rate (or effective average tax rate) is the total tax liability divided by the total economic base (taxable plus nontaxable income or spending). Economic income or spending is a broader base that includes all the taxpayer's income or spending, whether it is subject to tax or not.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 16:42 | 2590143 KowPie
KowPie's picture

Doublespeak all you want dipshit. Your links to economic articles and bogus wikibullshit have nothing to do with the real world. Your methodology is suspiciously like that of a government pogue that tells me my "effective tax rate" is 23% as I total up my gross income and subtract from that every penny spent in the form of a tax and realize the pittance left as my share. When I divide the tax total by the gross I come up with a REALIZED tax rate of 58%. You can spin that shit any way you choose but it won't change the MATHEMATICALLY CORRECT RESULT of 58%. Put that in your tax free crack pipe and smoke it.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 19:08 | 2590452 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Am I your accountant? Because I have no idea what you pay, nor did I make any claims about your effective rate. I only pointed out how moronic it is to add all the tax rates one happens to pay to get to a "real-world" tax rate. 

Is Charles' math the way you got to your 58% rate? And what accounts for the difference between Charles' bulletproof estimate of 75% and your 'mathetmatically correct' 58%? Could his post actually be a bunch of meaningless bullshit??

I'm not making a statement on tax rates, I'm making a statement on idiotic guest posts. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 19:56 | 2590561 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

And the percentage of taxes one actaully pays is not a real world tax rate? It is indicitive of the tax rate- where? Mars? Oz?

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 19:53 | 2590550 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

You attempt to refute the article with a model which you fail to provide variable definitions for because you are apparently a cut and paste fool, what a hoot. "Ummm let nothingness equal income and let more nothingness equal..." LOL. As you couldnt be bothered with definitions calculate this example:

I earn $100,000 in a year. Uncle Sam takes $25K and the state and local governments take $10K. I then pay $5K to the state and/or county in the form of property taxes for my car and home. With the remainder, I purchase goods and services on which the state takes a further 8% in sales and other taxes.

In this example,what is my tax burden according to you? Give the percentage of income paid in tax.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 20:34 | 2590625 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Your scenario is 45%, but I don't know what your point is. 

Images aren't copying properly here, for the calculation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rate

And then scroll to effective tax rate. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 20:38 | 2590632 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

My point was to figure out what you were saying as you didnt provide the variable definitions you based your argument on.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 22:42 | 2590822 malek
malek's picture

You're blabbering nonsense.

Why exactly can't I add together percentages (tax rates), as long as they are not overlapping?

And if you'd read the article attentively, you might have noticed CHS is talking about a self-employed individual.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:46 | 2589311 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

And fuel taxes.

Various other taxes lumped on your cell phone bill.

And, since we are at it, lets call fees that everyone charges for everything these days for what they are, taxes.

Finally, imagine how much less the bottom line will be when the FED goes NIRP like Denmark, and you also factor in the "offishul" 2% inflation rate.

Inflation is also a tax.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:12 | 2589429 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

Thank you....has anyone ever challenged the fees on your cell phone and utilty bill that goes to pay for their employee pensions and low income free phone and utility assistance?

These are fees (taxes) we have no say over, even if you already contribute time and/or money to the myriad energy assistance chairities that are available.

Tell me there is proper accounting oversight there!

/sarc off

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 16:25 | 2589773 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

GOV IS OUT OF CONTROL! Today you are a major fucking fucktard if you don't see how outrageous the whole system is. They are sociopaths that on some unconscious level desire apocalypse or some trouble any form of trouble in the erroneous belief that they will keep their positions! 

 

INSANITY! Anyone who feels otherwise is drugged and out grazing. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:46 | 2589314 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

Phone tax, utilities tax, license fees, vehicle registration tax, gas tax, user fees on everything, etc. etc.

 

We have the lower class, the tax class, and the parasite class that skims off the other two. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:50 | 2589763 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Add to that tax preparation fees. You also pay outrageous insurance fees because the government has given attorneys a license to suck the life out of people who work for a living.  And the biggest tax of all, if you have savings, is the inflation tax.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:35 | 2589505 Hal n back
Hal n back's picture

sales tax is still a tax.

 

Back in the 60's Illinois had a 4% sales tax--now all-in its 11% in the higher places. No income tax till August 1969--now 5.75%. I might be fuzzy on this but I do not think car sales had sales tax attached to them way back when. Now--there is hte tax and if you buy a car in a low tax county and liv ein a higher tax county --you have to pay the lower tax at dealer and then pay the higher tax for your county before you get license.

 

You also -in income tax return-have to pay sales tax on products bought thru Amazon.

 

Hw on earth was IL  govt able to survive without much tax revenue then.

 

Not as high salaries, pension and health care costs for state employees as there is now. Incl State legislators who should recuse themselves from increasing pensions and benefits.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 15:45 | 2589958 Fidel Sarcastro
Fidel Sarcastro's picture

i also live in Illinois, and this f*cking state sucks!  Taxes up the ass.  Oh, I may be taxed just for saying that. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 17:42 | 2590257 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Ding! You are fined five dollars for repeated violations of the verbal morality statute.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:55 | 2589353 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

There is also the effective tax of dilution of monetary value by manipulation of the currency, but that's impossible to get agreement on, in terms of how big a tax it represents. It's 2-3% until all hell breaks loose, which is always "unforeseeable".

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:15 | 2589639 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Yeah, it's tough to look at the huge add to the Fed balance sheet to cover the shadow banking system's ongoing collapse.  I don't really have any other conclusions to that other than "buy gold", but I just wanted to say that it's tough to look at.  

Just to further unnecessarily buffer your statement:

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/APU0000702111?data_tool=XGtable

http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/CT1970p1-06.pdf

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=average+life+expectancy

The average life expectancy in the US is 78 years.  The current price of bread is $1.41.  The price of bread in 1934 (78 years ago) was 8 cents.  The price of bread has increased 17.6x in one average lifespan.  The Dow Jones industrial average was 100 in 1934.  Now it's around 13,000, for an increase of 130x.  See where inflation doesn't hurt the rich everyone?  They don't give a flying fuck about it.

 

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:56 | 2589361 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

Fu*$ing thieves in our govt. redistributing the hardest working group of American's income we need to bring back public hangings! Whether it's foreign aid or pet projects those pigs would (SHOULD) be in jail and they would be if they robbed us like that on the street!

Middle Class--Not the Rich or the Poor--Pay Majority of Federal Taxes, Says CBO Data

http://cnsnews.com/node/68094

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:00 | 2589380 janchup
janchup's picture

Who else will front the $3 billion per week for useless war?

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:07 | 2589410 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

If you accurately calculate the progressive tax on $83,600 it comes out to 20.4% -- but I don't think that moves the needle here.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:14 | 2589442 NooooB
NooooB's picture

I don't have a TV. otherwise I agree whole heartedly...

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:26 | 2589220 wolfnipplechips
wolfnipplechips's picture

More taxes coming bitchez. Now Obummer can levy anything he wants as a tax thanks to those crazies in the supreme court

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:46 | 2589312 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

are you really that dumb?  The executive branch doesnt have this power.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:48 | 2589323 WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot's picture

The ACA was his baby. WNC is speaking too loosely and you're splitting hairs.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:09 | 2589419 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

The executive branch doesnt have [insert what you want] power.

Keep saying stuff like that -- you'll look good in Gitmo Orange!  ;-)

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:30 | 2589486 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Bullshit -- ACA was Hillary's baby.  Remember Hillary Care?  Died, but was resurrected as Romney Care in Mass.  It was so "successful" it was cloned into ACA,  Obama Care.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:53 | 2589576 WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot's picture

You miss the point. The point is about the president's de facto ability to impose a tax. Even though BHO doesn't technically have the constitutional authority to institute a tax (a mere technicality), it was BHO who pushed it through, and it's being labeled as "his signature accomplishment." My point is merely that wolfnipple, or whatever the hell his name is, has it mostly right - the president can essentially tax at will now. I couldn't care less where the ACA was actually conceived.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:19 | 2589653 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

So if I just vote for Romney, he won't abuse this authority then?  Sign me up!  lol

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 23:34 | 2590882 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

.....can't wait to see who obama "pardons" on his way out the door.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:51 | 2589340 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Post 9/11 the unitary executive is all powerful.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:52 | 2589341 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Silly boy, since when did not having Constitutional authority to do something ever stop the statists in the long run?

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:06 | 2589402 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The legislative branch is nothing more than a facade. There is no real representation in the house and senate. They do what they are told in exchange for the crumbs thrown their way.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:26 | 2589221 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."
Leona Helmsley

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:32 | 2589244 ZH11
ZH11's picture

Popolo Minuto

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:26 | 2589222 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Who is John Galt?

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:26 | 2589225 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

But...but....but you're missing the other side of the argument Charles. Most of those taxes flow back to you and me in the form of.............

Never mind. I can't make the argument with a straight face. :)

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:35 | 2589257 sushi
sushi's picture

. . . . . . .  . intervention in the middle east to wit the destruction of wedding parties at $6,000,000 a pop to keep American industrialists safe.

 

Fixed it for ya.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:49 | 2589329 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Mrs Cog was telling me that each cruise missile requires something like 28 ounces of Silver to manufacture. Presumably the Silver is not recoverable. Not sure if this is true or not, but one can dream....can't one?

I can only hope my little Silver stash is made more valuable as "we" destroy the world one cruise missile at a time.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:55 | 2589358 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

It is true, physical PM's can be, and are Corzined. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:59 | 2589376 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Why do I laugh out loud every time I read the term "Corzined"? :)

Too bad Einstein was wrong. Matter can be destroyed.......or rather Corzined.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:38 | 2589265 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

. . . in the form of a big one up the ass.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:27 | 2589226 Hopeless for Change
Hopeless for Change's picture

"I will not raise taxes on the Middle Class"

-Barack Hussein Obama

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:47 | 2589316 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

and he hasn't. Secondly he couldnt even if he wanted to, the power to tax is with the congress einstein.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:54 | 2589349 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

So um the "Bush tax cuts" weren't Bush'es but the Congress'es fault too right????

 

Whichever Prez signs the bill (gets the blame)

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:37 | 2589516 Chump
Chump's picture

Then his claim in the first place is as asinine as your hyper-partisan bullshit.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:47 | 2589550 Watauga
Watauga's picture

Of course the Congress is responsible to some degree for taxation, but bills do not become law without the approval, or assignation, of the President.  And Presidents own the "bully pulpit" from which they espouse such ideas as tax cuts, or Obamacare, or Social Security, or war. 

Don't get yourself too wrapped around the axle of the Constitution, since it was put in front of a firing squad in 1861 and has been in the process of dying and being buried ever since.  I suppose Wilson and FDR finished it off, and LBJ, RMN, and so on, to include the current President, did the burying. 

We really must face this fact: the Constitution of the United States, certainly as ratified and almost as certainly as it existed up until the mid-60s, is dead.  It is flat out dead.  Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court, not to mention Congressional staffers, heads of agencies, and lesser courts, all essentially do whatever they want to expand the federal power and bureaucracy knowing that they will never be held to account by the Statist, lapdog MSM. 

For a fun drill, put the name of Richard M. Nixon and his cabinet members in place of the name of Barack Hussein Obama and his cabinet members in matters such as campaign dirty tricks, Fast & Furious, and so on.  It is not difficult to imagine another long, hot, summer of unrelenting network 24/7 television coverage of the lies, crimes, and coverups, as we all sat through back during Watergate.  Good grief, at least the burglars' stupid actions did not lead to the death of federal law enforcement agents.  "What did he know and when did he know it?" has not been asked once by the creeps running NBC, ABC, or CNN. 

We live in a nation that is consuming itself because it killed the one thing that prevented it for nearly 100 years--the Constitution.  It happened because Lincoln and his cronies among "the monied interests" (i.e., Northeastern bankers and rising industrialists) decided no piece of paper was going to stand in their way and, by golly, they had the war machine to prove it.  Things went to hell the day Lincoln was elected, because for a people whose idea "nation" rested upon notions of limited government, State sovereignty, and individual liberty (yes, yes, the slaves would have been freed eventually and more effectively in the 1860s or 70s without war and the deaths of 600,000 men).  Once Lincoln was able to slaughter his brothers and cousins to the South, the Constitution became nothing more than a tool in the arsenal of lies of the Statists and Leftists.

By the way, if you have not read this post by JR, I am quoting it here, as he is spot on:

In the final analysis from the euro crisis to Obamacare and the immigration invasions the producer citizen will pay through inflation or taxes or ZIRP.

Whether we suffer under socialism, democracy, fascism or crony capitalism, the end result is the same. The Establishment (translation: the owners of the Federal Reserve and their toadies) will be the tax collector. To know where we are one only needs to hear from one of the toadies, Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor in the Clinton Administration.

Antiwar.com’s Justin Raimondo has been barred as a columnist for Huffington Post because he told the truth about Israel. But Robert Reich is a regular columnist because he carries the Establishment line and the myth of socialism.

Today, he lectures us on patriotism. There are two types, he said:

One are the so-called patriots worried about protecting our borders from those who might otherwise over run us, or from foreign powers threatening us with aggression.

Two, there is the good kind of patriotism, which is: “paying our fair share of taxes so our community or nation has enough resources to meet all our needs, and preserving and protecting our system of government.”

Says Reich: “True patriots don’t hate the government of the United States. They’re proud of it.”

Perhaps there’s never been a more perfect explanation of how the toadies carry out the message from the tyrants who control our currency, our Congress, and our President. The message is this:  there is no such thing as a nation or a culture or hopes and dreams of individuals trying to better themselves. There is only the government, the system, the empire, the State.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 15:59 | 2590015 Hopeless for Change
Hopeless for Change's picture

Hey crawdaddy, you liberal fucktard, Obamacare was declared "Constitutional" simply on the grounds that it was deemed a TAX.  The biggest tax increase in the history of the nation.  Pay attention to the facts before you post and reveal your ignorance.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 14:06 | 2724584 monad
monad's picture

a tax from which Muslims are exempt... unconstitutional!

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:27 | 2589227 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Stop buying crap at retail..  Craigslist, yard sales, and farmers markets...

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:32 | 2589246 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

don't buy lemonade at stands run by elementary school kids... You'll be supporting terrorism!

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:05 | 2589397 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Those lousy terrorists get craftier each year. Now they're subverting our youth. I'm gonna call the school principal and complain. What the hell are they teaching our kids these days? There ought to be a law or something.

/sarc........(just in case someone thought I was serious)

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:56 | 2589588 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "There's one for you 19 for me..."

~~~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzLry3ABpV0

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:24 | 2589475 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Not to worry -- your taxes are hard at work on this problem.  Well armed SWAT teams with automatic weapons from the gov't are making their sweeps as we speak, putting the little bastards out of business so our (and Coca Cola's) way of life isn't destroyed.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:38 | 2589267 Arkaenun
Arkaenun's picture

Amen to that, but farmer's markets ain't cheap.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:55 | 2589356 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

So put a garden in, buy some chickens and an AR15.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:06 | 2589405 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

I'm 1/3 of the way there, looking for a reasonable property for the other 2 (plus solar, water storage, etc).

 

I also recommend a pistol (9mm or higher caliber) with concealed permit where applicable, and a 12ga shotgun.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:20 | 2589461 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I reccommend that you get out & buy yourself as much PVC piping (& various couplings) you can before oil gets scarce... 1/2 inch is nice because it's closest to standard garden hose widths, but 1 1/4 & 1 1/2 inch are also rather handy for various things... Just store the stuff in a shed until you need it (you will some day)...

Either that or buy some bamboo seeds...

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:50 | 2589330 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

Indeed, pay with cash.

Otherwise some states will charge a "use tax".

Then again, I can't imagine why some states like Louisiana wanted to ban cash transactions altogether.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:27 | 2589228 Cranios
Cranios's picture

BY THIS DEFINITION OF "TAXES," EVEN FOOD IS A TAX, SINCE EVERYONE MUST BUY IT.

 

SO TO SAY IT'S OPTIONAL IS SPECIOUS.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:08 | 2589415 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

So, to what government office do you take your "food" for payment. Do you even think before you type?

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:28 | 2589232 l1b3rty
l1b3rty's picture

LOVE FOR THE GLOBAL NEO SOVIET!

 

SOLIDARITY MY ZH KOMRADEN!

http://silvervigilante.com

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:34 | 2589235 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Property tax: 15%

You can leave this one out; the majority of people, especially younger, won't be able to afford houses.  Nor do we want to be banking mortgage serfs.

Although I guess you can call rent a tax, too.  And most of us pay 1/3rd's of what we make/month just to pay rent!

+infinity to the "All your income are belong to us"

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:49 | 2589258 JeffB
JeffB's picture

Rent might be a necessary expense, but I wouldn't consider it a tax unless the money is collected by the government. Property taxes on rental property are taxes, of course, and are obviously factored into rental prices, but should only be included once, either in the owner's or the renter's taxes, not double counted on both.

I think a better way to calculate things is to add up all of the tax revenues & fees from federal, state and local governments & divide by the total income of the nation's citizens (& illegal aliens etc.).

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:53 | 2589345 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I think a better way is to add up all the governmental expenditures and divide that into the total income of Americans.  I think you will find that Americans currently are taxed at an excess of 100% of their income.

Fri, 07/06/2012 - 18:03 | 2589421 JeffB
JeffB's picture

You're right. Inflation and debt are taxes as well.

They're just not as blatantly obvious, and the pain may be delayed, especially in the case of debt.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:25 | 2589681 grok
grok's picture

That's fine but this point does not matter.  Consider that everyone falls into one of these categories:  1) Renter, 2) Landlord.  And further, anyone who is a Landlord is either going to be living in their own place, or they are going to be renting. 

For the sake of argument, say you count it once, and for the sake of logic, let's say that the end user (the renter, or if the property is owned but not rented, the owner) is the one who gets assigned the tax, since only those above him can set the price for the income stream and are unaffected if they are just passing the tax through to the end user.  So then, you see that EVERYONE still gets hit with this tax at least once.

It is right to say that all taxes essentially determine the size of government (or vice versa), so for the purpose of balancing the tables, if you wanted to prove that, then yeah, you would count each property tax only once.

However, the main point here is that our system is designed to obfuscate the size and growth rate of government.  Most see things as having finite costs, and their potential for work as enabling a finite income stream.  As the tax-portions of each price grow in proportion to the price itself (which also grows, although at a slightly slower rate, through the tax that enables deficits: inflation), the amount of our income dedicated to funding an ever-growing government grows in proportion to the total.

So, how do you stop this?  Let's pretend that the bloody upheaval has already happened -- how do you prevent indefinitely the existence of an out of control government?

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:41 | 2589287 Confused
Confused's picture

The property tax is being passed of in the form of a portion of your rent.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:09 | 2589418 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Which is why anyone feeling guilty about renting in a neighborhood for access to the schools is getting it wrong: you are indeed paying the property tax as a passthru for the rent, but you don't get to deduct it or any mortgage interest off of your federal taxes!

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:36 | 2589509 Confused
Confused's picture

Sure. But you can leave at a moments notice. With a mortgage....well, lets say its a tad bit more difficult.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:06 | 2589401 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

if you rent you pay the owners prop tax

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:10 | 2589426 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Only in the sense that it is an input. I don't charge my renters for property tax- I charge what ever the market will bear. The property tax merely cuts my profit. Would I charge less rent if they eliminated property taxees? Only if the market required it.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:28 | 2589689 grok
grok's picture

Doesn't matter.  The tax is paid, but its use is obfuscated.  THAT is the problem with all of these built-in taxes.  People don't understand just how much of their work-force is diverted to an entity with no accountability and no apparent restraint.  Where does it end?  And it's certainly not efficient.  Do we need all of these services that government "provides"?

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:30 | 2589237 Jason T
Jason T's picture

But Sean Hannity said, quoting the Heritage foundation, 50% of americans pay no income tax? http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/19/chart-of-the-week-nearly-half-of-all...

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:37 | 2589261 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Fuck Hannity

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:39 | 2589275 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Hannity is a government loving fascist.

When SHTF, I predict he'll call for disarming Americans on the air, as well as for people to listen to FOX NEWS....and the corrupt government....on what to do.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:45 | 2589306 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Have you ever seen Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow in the same place together? Think about it.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:48 | 2589553 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

That would be like matter and anti-matter coming together.  The world would implode into a dense, lightless mass, without a trace of gravity, about the size of each of their brains.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:52 | 2589563 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

Whos Sean Hannity? What is a Fox news? 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:35 | 2589593 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"Have you ever seen Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow in the same place together? Think about it."

 

ROTFLMFAO !!!!

I did think about that.....and that's why I laughed and snorted puke at the same time !!!

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:56 | 2589586 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

You're being too harsh!  He has his uses.  When I am totally constipated, I tune in to his show on the way home and am always rewarded with a colon-blow session on the throne. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:38 | 2589268 drchris
drchris's picture

"income tax"

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 15:01 | 2589777 maximin thrax
maximin thrax's picture

Thank you. The Payroll Tax, taken from the first dollar earned to be spent towards someone else's consumption and/or government obligations, is the height of regressive taxation - and the pinnacle of fairness if you want government to take care of you.

The world runs in debt. The Rich dip their fingers into the credit stream for endless wealth. However, ordinary citizens have what I would deem to be REAL capital - excess income over living costs. But we were talked into handing over 15.3% of that capital (yes, 15.3%, as it all comes out of employee compensation) to the government for a promise to take care of us when we're old, so that Trillion$ in working-class capital is forever lost into a debt pit. Then, because that 15.3% is taken away from us we are forced into 30-year mortages that would have been 15 years or less using the income now going towards payroll taxes, tripling mortage interest paid on the very same home. So that leads to better than an additional $150,000 in after-tax income, CAPITAL, going towards mortgage interest for the average home, of which only a pittance is refunded through tax deduction. What little capital we the people have left after spending over $600,000 on payroll taxes and unnecessary mortgage interest we dribble away a buck at a time on gadgets and bobbbles that add nothing to personal wealth.

This was the death of Capitalism: The move to credit from capital as finance and the taxing away of our capital towards our dependence on credit. And it happened due to our impatience with Capitalism to close the gap between rich and poor, electing to have credit (first personal, then government) close that gap.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:42 | 2589288 sickofthepunx
sickofthepunx's picture

is this the same heritage foundation that 1st proposed obamacare?

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:50 | 2589331 Jason T
Jason T's picture

shit I forgot to put the /sarc at the end.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:07 | 2589412 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Hannity is a fucking tool of the machine. I hate that slimy faggot

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:30 | 2589238 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

Tune in.

Turn on.

Drop out.

Right on, bitchez!

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:30 | 2589239 ZH11
ZH11's picture

Well who else is going to pay towards the deficit?

Tax is regressive because the billionaires and millionaires won't pay. This means those who can't avoid will have to pay.

The biggest transfer of true wealth continues and still anyone who dissents is branded a communist to close any chance of a debate.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:39 | 2589277 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Tax avoidance is patriotic.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:09 | 2589623 maximin thrax
maximin thrax's picture

The debt cannot be re-paid, but it can be financed for a time, as long as there is sufficient tax revenue. Above $175,000 (adjusted) one's income is taxed at 33%. For most fat-cat types who earn big bonuses, every penny of that bonus is taxed at 33% because for most their AGI remains above $175,000. So if the federal government's cut is 1/3 of the bonus, and that bonus is derived from repeated shearing of the "sheeple", then pray tell what is the government's incentive to put a stop to it? Especially since it needs ever-more revenue against which it leverages ever-more debt. Changing the tax rate from 33% to 50% (or higher - pick a rate that makes you feel good) only incentivises the federal government to make it its business that Wall Street bonuses get FATTER. That's what relying on a small percentage of citizens for the majority of tax revenue gets you - in the eyes of politicians, your are seen as worthless as best, a parasite at worst.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:30 | 2589240 shutdown
shutdown's picture

 

Hey!  I have a good idea! Let's make it 100%!  

How about a special 25% "Federal Deficit Reduction Tax," but make it temporary, only until the federal deficit hits zero. It'll expire in about five million years. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:13 | 2589441 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Or a Special High Income Tax?  It could come from the Augmenting Social Security act..

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:37 | 2589519 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

I realize you say that in jest, but last year there was a proposal in the UK that all employers simply turn over thier payroll to the government and the government would decide how much of an "allowance" the individual would get. I don't know how seriously it was considered or how close it came to passing, but if I saw it in the US headlines tomorrow morning I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:39 | 2589242 JeffB
JeffB's picture

I reject the notion that health care is a tax. At least not yet. It isn't collected by or for the government. It may be mandatory, but so are food and water, but I don't consider those taxes either. We all need clothes, but how could that be construed as taxes? Stretching it even further, most people consider electricity and transportation expenses necessary as well.

I think including health care expenses in the U.S. as a tax at the present moment hurts the credibility of the entire argument.

If/when the government takes over health care in socialistic fashion, then it would be quite fair to include such payments as a tax.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:44 | 2589300 sickofthepunx
sickofthepunx's picture

republican think tanks are the masters of conflation. 

 

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:45 | 2589308 Confused
Confused's picture

He makes a fair argument for it. Health insurance can land you in some pretty big trouble. Have assets? Those medical bills need to be paid with or without the insurance.

 

To your point. Car insurance, like health insurance, can be considered a tax.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:58 | 2589370 JeffB
JeffB's picture

I still disagree. Sure, they can sue you and perhaps take a lot of (most) of your assets if you can't pay, but that is private companies that provided the service at your behest doing the taking.

If it is a program funded and run by the government and they collect the money from you, then I would consider it a tax.

Whether or not we consider some purchase necessary or "mandatory" (ie. food, water, clothes, transportation etc.) isn't the criteria I use for calling something a tax. The criteria I use would be whether or not the government is the recipient of the revenue.

If the some private company makes and sells you clothes, and collects the money from you for doing so, is that really a "tax"? I don't think so. The sales taxes or value added taxes, or corporate or income taxes on those sales are taxes of course.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:29 | 2589483 Confused
Confused's picture

Fair argument.

 

But just for the sake of playing devils advocate: The government is most certainly a reciepient of the revenue in the form of bribes. ;-)

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:47 | 2589756 JeffB
JeffB's picture

"Off-budget revenues"?

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:54 | 2589352 adr
adr's picture

The thing is that with food and water, you get to consume what you pay for. You don't pay $100 for water at the beginning of the month and hope for a refund if you only consume $20 worth.

With health insurance you pay your premium whether you use it or not. I did the math, and even with the birth of my son, 1 ER visit for me, ad another ER visit for my son when he broke his leg. Over the past ten years I have only used 20% of the cash that has been paid in premiums between me and my employer.

Taking money from someone and spending it on someone else is a tax. Since we aren't allowed to call it theft, which is really what taxation is.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:04 | 2589390 JeffB
JeffB's picture

"With health insurance you pay your premium whether you use it or not."

--

That still doesn't make it "a tax". That is what is considered an "aleatory contract", not a tax.

Virtually every insurance contract is an aleatory one, but I only consider the one's run by the government (Social Security, Medicare, Prescription Drugs, Disability, Unemployment, etc.) to be considered "taxes".

Government mandated insurance can obviously be a drag on the economy and additional expenses for individuals and companies, but I consider that a regulatory drag, rather than a "tax" in the true sense of the word.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:37 | 2589489 Confused
Confused's picture

When they become mandated by the gov (like car insurance, and now health insurance), do you then consider it a tax?

Edit: Saw your last sentence too late. Sorry.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:56 | 2589360 jelyfish
jelyfish's picture

Govt. mandates that employers insure full time employees. To me that is a tax.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:07 | 2589395 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 I believe the author is mixing citizen taxes with citizen burdens.

There is some validity to argue, for example,

Citizens of country A and country B both are taxed 40%, but the citizens of country A get health care and education paid with taxes.

and the citizens of country B have to pay for their own health care and education, and unlike country A citizens, are provided with Homeland policing, speculator subsidies, and overseas military bases.

Most, I think, would agree country B citizens have the greater "burden" in the example. Most would continue to agree even if  country B's taxes were lowered less than 40%.

There will, I suppose, nonetheless, be those who insist the only thing that matters is the ostensible rate of taxation.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 14:19 | 2589650 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Sounds more accurate to me the way you described it.  The argument of "tax" gets warped and intentionally obtuse by the legal language.  Much better to instead compare "regulatory costs of life" in the U.S. versus comparable countries.  That way you could include the total costs imposed directly and indirectly by the government on the citizen:  all forms of local, state and federal taxes to include sales taxes on specific goods (food, water, clothing, transportation, but not stuff like iGadgets, TVs, leather ass-chaps), mandatory fees due to regulations (licensing fees for driving, practicing professions, mandatory insurance for things like autos, health, etc.).  Under that argument, it matters little whether the .gov administers the collection, and focuses more on the de jure requirement that makes the citizen pay it.  No doubt, many will want the ledger to be balanced with "value" of what those costs provided the citizen...

Anyway, I think the "Rs" should change their argument to something us Eloi can easily understand...."you're getting ass-f#cked, and you're going to get more ass-f#cked now."  Too bad they can't be honest and admit their part in the rape on behalf of the Morlocks. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:05 | 2589398 Essential Nexus
Essential Nexus's picture

I think what the author means is that healthcare is a mandatory expense for everyone and the government now regulates healthcare so much that it has become a government function, not a private enterprise (moreso than other industries).   For that reason, we pay multiples of what the actual cost should be and get lower quality products.  I think you could count about 80% of healthcare costs in America as a tax, because that is about the cost over the market cost of healthcare by my estimates.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:07 | 2589406 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

If health care becomes mandated in 2014, and is considered a tax, then we will be able to deduct it from income taxes. I think this is a trap set by the Supremes that has not yet been considered. I don't think Obama wanted this to be a tax. On the other hand he did beef up the IRS to collect the "fines".

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:07 | 2589413 JeffB
JeffB's picture

For what it's worth, I think Obamacare was the Trojan Horse, or camel's nose under the tent, in order to expand and morph Obamacare to become a monstrous socialistic government run program over time. They couldn't pass such a monster now, but know that it is much easier to do it piecemeal.

Once it's enacted they can use the inevitable scandals and crises to push it further and further in that direction until their ultimate goal is achieved.

But I still only consider money going to the government directly to be a "tax" in the true sense of the word.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:13 | 2589440 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Again, what government agency collects your clothes, food and water? A tax must be collected by the state.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:31 | 2589243 JR
JR's picture

In the final analysis from the euro crisis to Obamacare and the immigration invasions the producer citizen will pay through inflation or taxes or ZIRP.

Whether we suffer under socialism, democracy, fascism or crony capitalism, the end result is the same. The Establishment (translation: the owners of the Federal Reserve and their toadies) will be the tax collector. To know where we are one only needs to hear from one of the toadies, Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor in the Clinton Administration.

Antiwar.com’s Justin Raimondo has been barred as a columnist for Huffington Post because he told the truth about Israel. But Robert Reich is a regular columnist because he carries the Establishment line and the myth of socialism.

Today, he lectures us on patriotism. There are two types, he said:

One are the so-called patriots worried about protecting our borders from those who might otherwise over run us, or from foreign powers threatening us with aggression.

Two, there is the good kind of patriotism, which is: “paying our fair share of taxes so our community or nation has enough resources to meet all our needs, and preserving and protecting our system of government.”

Says Reich: “True patriots don’t hate the government of the United States. They’re proud of it.”

Perhaps there’s never been a more perfect explanation of how the toadies carry out the message from the tyrants who control our currency, our Congress, and our President. The message is this:  there is no such thing as a nation or a culture or hopes and dreams of individuals trying to better themselves. There is only the government, the system, the empire, the State.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:03 | 2589389 Mark123
Mark123's picture

very well said!

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:23 | 2589467 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Here, Robert Reich is spot on. IF YOU AGREE THAT A PATRIOT SUPPORTS THE STATE. However, if you consider the People to be the government and that those people decide what the priorities and structure of the government will be- his definitions are completely false.

This is the message of the State- not the People. We can never forget that the State will always be inimical to our interests. The state will always seize new power and introduce new tyrannies. The state will always run at the behest of a small group of elites. Still, they require our acceptance, thus the continuous propaganda stream. 

The moment we falter, new tyrannies are introduced. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 16:27 | 2590118 optimator
optimator's picture

Poor Robert, he could have made a lot of honest money playing, that is he wouldn't have to play, Josef Goebbles in all those Third Reich (not reech) movies!

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:43 | 2589537 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Regarding Reich's comment - yes, but Reich ignores the government drug running, gun running, using al Qaeda as a proxy to commit international war crimes, th eprotection of mega banks that launder the $10s of billions in drug money, cuts deals with drug cartels to bring in tons of cocaine, free and clear, while grandma gets strip searched looking for the al Qaeda being used as a proxy to destabilize Libya and Syria...

Reich is either a completely unaware ignorant fool or he's in bed with the human predators illuminated by John Taylor Gatto

The Ultimate History Lesson: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL463AA90FD04EC7A2

The Ultimate history Lesson Commentary: https://www.tragedyandhope.com/th-films/the-ultimate-history-lesson/comm... And why not mention the Federal Reserve's criminal bubble bust operation: http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3325954/debt-dollar-tyranny-2-54k?tr=77 and the fact our monetary system is a fraud from its inception: http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3325954/debt-dollar-tyranny-2-54k?tr=77 My vote is for Deceptivon Mercenary that enjoys lying to and hurting people. Otherwise, he'd provide accurate context and tell the truth. If you don't believe any of the above claims, Startpage.com search them.  Try "al Qaeda and West on same side" or "Hillary Syria al Qaeda" or Wachovia launders billions drug money." Or "7,700 tons of heroin Europe Afghanistan" or "We tolerate poppy production Afghanistan" Even those who don't want to believe can find out if they put in the effort.
Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:32 | 2589245 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

But I thought Obummer was going to save the middle class.

Fri, 07/06/2012 - 17:59 | 2589294 JeffB
JeffB's picture

He means save them from themselves. Like all socialists he believes they aren't smart enough to make their own decisions on how to spend the money they earn. They need the geniuses in government to take it from them and spend it as it should be spent. Citizens are like little kids, and the government is their parents. Or Big Brother, as the case may be.

 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:32 | 2589247 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

Munibonds = BUBBLE

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:33 | 2589248 Your Creator
Your Creator's picture

Hidden taxes everywhere.  If they tax the product or producer, You pay that tax when you buy something, above and beyond sales taxes, which are not hidden.  Tax the corporations really means "TAX THE CONSUMERS."

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:34 | 2589252 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Absolutely nothing outside of a meteor strike can stop the consumer.

 

Come hell or high water, the consumer is going to spend regardless of his tax rate.

XRT only $3 away from making another world record high, as KSS, LTD, COST surge after earnings misses.

Hands down the strongest tape I've seen in years.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:41 | 2589284 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

the consumer has an insatiable appetite for bullshit...

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:41 | 2589285 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Consumption is his patriotic duty. Buy, buy and buy the shit to kill his fucking boredom sine he's got very empty inner-life. 

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:45 | 2589295 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The strongest ductape I've seen too.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:58 | 2589369 adr
adr's picture

Nothing can stop the bullshit channel stuffing stock scam. Retail is not strong.

Or maybe the regional average actual reciept sales of less than $200 a day at my wife's mall store is somehow wrong. That is regional, OH, Western PA, Kentucky, WV. $200 A DAY AVERAGE.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 13:27 | 2589479 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

robo is right,  all of the articles and horrible economic data from g-8 etc.etc.etc. and the tape goes up up up. 

 

i know that the entire paradigm of investment that i have studied for 30+ years and traded for more than 10 no longer exist as i know it. 

 

if the spending comes from confiscated monies redistributed, what do the retailers care.

 

a pointless ramble on my part, but the whole world just keeps humpity-huming along.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:34 | 2589253 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Another bullshit. How about calculating the benefits brought by the Empire before the tax part? Another one-sided narrow-minded piece of shit.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:37 | 2589262 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Also, all that shit you buy "Made in China"?  That also means you are paying Chinese taxes (as well as bribes for the vendor, who bribes some state toadie to ensure his business keeps afloat).

 

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