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Marc Faber To America: "Listen You Lazy Bugger, You Need To Tighten Your Belts, You Need To Work More For Lower Salaries"
Once again, the latest fire and brimstone sermon by Marc Faber is absolutely spot on, starting and ending with his "policy" recommendation for what the US needs: "I will tell you what the US needs. The US needs a Lee Kwan Yew who stands in front of the US and tells them, listen you lazy bugger, now you have to tighten your belts, you have to save more, work more for lower salaries and only through that will we get out of the current dilemma that essentially prevents the economy from growing." No money printing, no extensive protests, no excuses. Of course, this would have to accompany a global overhaul of the system, something Zero Hedge has been advocating since day one, as it is impossible to reform this broken system from within: "The problem i have with the investment universe is that i find it difficult to envision how the US and western Europe can return to healthy sustainable growth without a complete purge of the financial system and some type of catalyst. Something that restores some measure of social cohesion among people; it could be hyperinflation, a complete credit market collapse, widespread sovereign defaults, civil strife, major military confrontation.” Alas, in that he is also correct, and as we said back in early 2010, when the current episode of extend and pretend ends and the can kicking exercise finally fails, next up is war.
It is refreshing to see that Marc is a reader of Zero Hedge, and specifically the post that we consider one of the most important of the year, namely that from BSC, which laid out in black on white what the next steps will be:
I tell what you to do. I think a flat tax on everybody would be actually a good measure and i think to reduce the regulatory environment in the US. We have expansionary fiscal and monetary policies. But we have restrictive regulatory policies. And it curtails any initiative by the small businessmen., and the large businessmen, he doesn't employ and invest capital in the US, he does he that in China or somewhere else in the world where the regulatory environment is more favorable. If you look at net investments in the US, it's gone down for the last 20 years, and it's now negative. In other words, basically the capital stock of America is not being replenished. It's being replenished somewhere else. And at the same time, the policies of the Keynesians have always encouraged spending. “We're not going to get out of recession by saving. Spend, Spend, Spend.” That is wrong. The lack of savings is the problem of the United States.
Faber on volatility and liquidity:
i think the volatility arises because we have the Nasdaq bubble and then we had the housing bubble and the stock market bubble and then a commodities bubble and usually when the bubble bursts like off the 29 or after the late '60s you have a period of very high volatility for about 10 to 15 years before the markets settle down and then reignite the uptrend. As far the dollar is concerned, the reason i'm actually quite positive is that global liquidity, despite of the fact that the ECB and the European governments will flood the market with liquidity to pay the sales out, that global liquidity is tightening. And whenever global liquidity is tightening, it's bad for asset prices but good for the US dollar as was the case in 2008.
On what the true target of #OccupyWallStreet, whose otherwise noble intentions are unfortunately being abused by higher powers, should be:
Basically we have the Keynesians and the Democrats and I'm not saying that all democrats are equal, but they want interventions and we have far too many interventions in the western world where the share of the total economy that goes to government and is government- sponsored has grown. And that essentially makes it very difficult for the western world to grow substantially. As to that huge level of debts, i don't see how the western world, including the US, japan, and Western Europe can actually grow. They're going to stagnate. And when you have stagnation over a longer period of time, people start to ask questions and then they go after minorities. And Wall Street is a minority – they are a minority and anyone else would have done the same. They use the system. But they didn't create the system. The system was created by the lobbyists and by Washington. So they should actually go to Washington and also occupy the Federal Reserve on the way.
Finally, his conclusion is once again spot on: Wall Street's growth is merely a smokescreen for something far more insiduous and something repeatedly covered by Bill Buckler and other more insightful strategists: namely the infinite growth of central planning and the government apparatus. Wall Street's monstrous increase is merely a smokescreen by government to allow it to operate in its shadows and to pocket the benefits of the most mutated symbiotic relationship in the history of the world.
The problem is, governments in the western world -- and I'm not singling out the US -- they have grown like a cancer. And now they protect themselves to stay in power and they have a variety of alliances, like, for instance Mr. Obama he has no clue, but when he sees the protesters in Wall Street he immediately says yes, yes, yes that’s a good idea so he can target the minority so can buy a few more votes. And of course the well to do people want to protect what they worked for and also what they're paying for because as you know in the US roughly 50% of the people don't pay federal income tax. So actually to say that the rich have not contributed anything is actually wrong.
The conclusion is that any systemic reset should not target just Wall Street: it should focus first and foremost on what is most broken in US society: its "government."
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But none of that money came from the taxpayers. Holders of USD would suffer some inflationary effect from the creation of $16 billion out of thin air (assuming that it circulates) but no taxes were collected to cover this amount.
My point is that Colonel doesn't get it when he says that the hard working US has bailed out the world. The truth is that the US prints money from nothing and it's used not only to bail foreigners out on occasion but is more regularly employed to get foreign goods in exchange for our completely unbacked, debt based currency.
The reason the Fed is bailing out foreigners is because they want to protect the US's long standing ability to trade paper for real goods.
Why all of it of course. Only $16b you say? You must know something Bernanke doesn't. Are you tired of being the typical pretentious fuck yet or are you just European?
Are you tired of making statements about monetary policy when you don't have a clue how it works? Hard working Americans have no connection whatsoever to the money which the Fed printed out of thin air and gave to European banks. No taxes paid for this bailout. The Fed did it to keep the dollar hegemony racket alive.
And by the way Marc, Carl Fox has a message for you bitch:
Carl Fox: Stop going for the easy buck and start producing something with your life. Create, instead of living off the buying and selling of others.
Austerity? With like 300 million population? Do you understand what austerity means? Go to Greece and other countries to see what misery, poverty and social unrest look like. Thats austerity.
Greek austerity is increasing the retirement age from 50 to 52. No change in free college and free medical. We already have more austerity then Greece with much higher (paid) taxes.
The first thing that has to happen is prosecution for breaking the law. The CDS is a classic example. The creation was not minipulating the system, it was illegal. The CDS is an insurance policy and there were capital requirement rules for insurance. Just because the "minipulators" called it a different name, the CDS, did not make it legal. Insurance is insurance. There was also a law against gambling. I could go on. Hell, Romeo and Juliet knew the concept. Would not a rose by any other name still be a rose? Put these fraud perpetrators in jail. Then we can talk about cuts.
Yes. This. +700 Trillion.
The government breaks the law everyday. They are also charged with enforcing the law. See the problem?
In China it takes an international corporation between 6 months and 3 years to permit and construct a factory. It is not an expensive nor time consuming process.
To construct the same factory in the US takes 5 to 12 years.
In the US it takes thousands of executive man hours in public meetings and millions of dollars of legal and other consultation and study fees to obtain permits. At any stage of the process in the US the corporation is subjected to numerous complaints and lawsuits.
In California the corporation continues to be subjected to lawsuits even after all the permits are issued.
The international corporations are merely voting with their feet.
Yes, I heard California will be first state which will achieve Perpetuum Mobile by not producing anything but just taxing and putting out fines. That will be enough to keep California prosperous.
Yeah, but by all means, an arrogant little hedge fund d-bag like Faber should keep his exorbitant income with his track record.
I'm waiting for him to sell out like Roubini.
Yo Mark (and all others who think that EVERYONE ELSE should take a pay cut),
The line for salary cuts forms over here.You first.
What's that I hear? Crickets?
Marc Faber is self-employed...so why should he give himself a self-imposed pay cut.
Besides, he contributes more than enough time to the Child's Dream Charity
http://new.gloomboomdoom.com/public/pSTD.cfm?pageSPS_ID=5300
All subscription dollars are invested, and go to fund the charity. Read it. It has done some pretty amazing things in Thailand.
"What country is bailing out the rest of the world with their dollars? Are foreign central banks sending money to the U.S. Who's protecting their asses with their military? More Europeon BS."
That part is BS. You SUCK UP bil of external money from the rest of the world every day to keep the U.S. machine going. If this machine had to go on by itself (relying on U.S. manufacturing force) there'd be a severe depletion of your standards of living...
Why cause you say so? I call BS on your BS. Your going to have to elaborate a little further on the U.S. "sucking up" so much money when if it wasn't for the U.S. Europe wouldn't have a pot to piss in.
What is the Fed's cost in printing money? Start there.
Even now you jackasses are barely hanging on if it wasn't for the Germans.
Marc Faber couldn't be more wrong. The way out of this is to reduce the private debt overhang on the economy by abolishing swathes of it that should not have been created. Force wages down - as is happening - and you increase debt burdens in a situation of higher prices on staples.
For years, Faber was pretty dollar bearish to say the least...He had plenty of negative things to say about both Greenspan and Bernanke...Now with the USD in the high 70's, he seems pretty bullish... As far as his political (social) commentary...He's all over the map...hell he's not even on the map anymore...Sounds to me like he just discovered Viagra or something of the like and can't wait to get back to the hotel...For me, his opinion is now suspect across the board...I agree with many of you out there when it comes to this 'work for less-bugger attitude' spewing from his mouth...He seems out of touch for once, but that's all one needs to see!!! In the end, after listening to him in interviews and roundtables for years, he seems to have finally blown a fuse!!! Where this goes or what this means remains unknown but it's kind of weird to see him laughing and smirking while simultaneously talking about hyperinflation, full credit collapse etc...He seemed like he was stoned! This is scary in the end!!!???? No?
Apparently this jackass does not understand simple math.
SAVE MONEY? Lets say I save $500 a month in a savings account.
I have a depreciating liability called a HOUSE with a 5% mortgage(180,000)(actual value 110,000) on it, a 6% credit card for emergencies with 6,000 on it.(25,000 limit), a car lease, and I pay home/auto/health insurance myself. Of course i have other bills like we all do.
WHAT THE HELL IS SAVING $500 a MONTH in a .01% savings account going to do for me pal????
Just to pay for my house depreciating and ponzi insurances I would have to MAKE an additional $1000.00 PER MONTH just to cover that!!!!!
here is a better idea, how about I get as many credit cards as possible, MAX them all out buying GOLD, stop paying my mortgage and buy GOLD with my PMI every month for at least 2 years while they foreclose, maybe i can stay rent free for 4 years!! Since i dont need credit, cancel my health insurance and buy GOLD with that money too.
This way, if i lose my job at least I have GOLD to convert to fiat. If I don't lose my job I can afford to rent at the freaking beach AFTER they kick me out of my rent free digs.
Id bet I COULD 'save up' at least 100,000 in todays GOLD through this plan, and as we debase and inflate away that will double and double again
Having 100-300K in GOLD at the bottom of this worldwide crash won't be too shaby, i could pick up a condo for probably 25K a block from the beach at that point and continue my life. The worst the CC companies can do it put a lien on my house which i only have to worry about if i sell it, and without a mortgage ill never need to sell it.
THERE I FIGURED out what he ment by "Tighten your belts and save!"
Such is the danger of capitalism: eventually the plebs figure it out.
When are the plebes going to figure out that one government agency or another takes half of every dollar they earn? Services provided by fiat are far more expensive than services provided in a free market.
Much of what is said ..is true . But it is also UNTRUE.
BIG CAPITAL and GOUVERNMENT have formed an ALLIANCE . Gouvernment engaged in this because im fact they were NOT able to touch BIG CAPITAL , who in this GLOBALIZED WORLD could just move somewhere else if conditions did not suit them and also at any time were in the financial position to make any attack by gouvernment excedingly costly and bordering to impossible . So they teamed up .. as they historically always have done .
And BIG CAPITAL moved the industrial production apparatus to locations where the work-force was the cheapest .. but kept their selling privileges back home . This naturally created far bigger profits than any time before ! This was good for share - pices !
Alas .. also this was a short term situation . Because the golden nest egg now has no cash and will in a near term future not any longer be in the position to continue its unprecedentant buying spree . This is bad for share prices !
The originating homelands have thus been sucked DRY of real capital .. there is only DEBT ... and little productive industry base left . Anyway far too little real production .. to pay the lavish habits of the residents in the former so glorious homelands .
So the FINANCIAL SERVICE INDUSTRY was invented , which could create Money out of thin air by leveraging all and eny REAL WORLD product 50 - 100 times . Goevernment was happy because this created an ILUSION of continuous wealth . This thin air money could even be taxed and resulted in thin air money in Gouvernment coffers .
BUT ... it was all fake !
And now the Debts are even bigger , The Political system is by BIG Capital ( whom the are dependant on and paid by ) being forced to let their NATIONS = THE PEOPLE take the real world losses of all this Leverage ! And there goes the last little capital left , sucked out of previous wealthy countries ... that little RESERVE capital which should have been used for more productive purposes ..in an attempt to turn the tide
The elected political leaders of the nations ( under oath to protect and defend their nations and its people ) allowed this to happen and still do ..in the process stuffing their own pockets as there is no morality left .. only self-preservation . Every man for himself !
The poiticians are now totally dependant on BIG CAPITAL and must do what they are told . They betrayed their Countries and lied to their populations who were so stupid ( and may be short term greedy ) to believe all the political promises and that such a situation of high consumption and low production and savings would be tenable . And that they could continue to recieve the benefits and high salaries and SPEND as they had got used to .. also when there no longer was sufficient real production .. to pay for all this
And they continue to lie . And a majority of the people still continue to believe ( and lie to themselves also ) Because the populations continue to vote for those Politicians who come forward with the biggest promises ( and therefore the biggest lies )
Look at Obama .. and elsewhere in the western world !
While the Titanic sinks
The irony of America is most of the seeds which have borne weeds were planted during the good times. The late 90's ushered in the repeal of G-S. Ditto for commodities modernization act. The TBTF all started their massive mergers in 1996. Bush, lead by more economic goofs, kept the ball rolling...
We could have been "tough" when it was easy to and we were loaded...but that is not what humans do, they press their bet...
This notion that Faber is an unnecessary paper pusher is nonsense. Someone has to think this stuff through, and I for one am glad he did. Read "Tomorrows Gold" published in 2004 and let me know how that might have benefited your management of money. It was spot freakin' on. While the Cramers of the world were giving reach arounds to every housing company that showed up on his show, Faber was warning loudly of the problems coming. Great read. Again, consider when it was written.
Too many paper pushers? Of course. But this is from the regulations being twisted in the favor of the paper society. Blame your idiot Congressman. Or yourself if you voted for them.
If you are working three jobs and reading ZH, God bless you. Faber is not talking to you. He is talking to the joker account manager that produces very little, including returns for their clients...and all the other scum suckers that simply work the system to skim a couple of sheckels. God will have his vengeance. ironic.
Slovakia Government failed!!!! I m from Bratislava. So ESFS is down for few days!!!!!! coool
Hhhhmmm. Work longer and harder for lower wages. The American Dream? Bullshit. Faber has enriched himself over the past 30-odd boom years and is ensconced in the Swiss cantons. What the fuck does he care about social cohesion? You're seeing relatively peaceful protests now, just wait until your average teacher/fireman/cop/banker/lawyer/hedgie has to work longer hours for lower pay. It will be mayhem. V? A child's film in comparison... Social cohesion my ass...
Get the great industrial heartland of America revitalized
and reopened. At what wages? - the marketplace forces will
decide...Just do it! Defeat is not an option for the
next generations. Canada based companies are investing
238 Billion dollars worth of new projects this year in America,
by far the largest FDI. Where is the American enterpreneur
spirit? C'mon people.
Divide and conquer everything going as planned.
Ok, let me see.
We went from one income, to two, with mom working hard and the kids eating whatever we could put on the table or what they shouldn't have eaten because they are latch key kids.
We went from a 6 member family to a 4 member family
We went from buying a new car every year to buying one every few years, but it's ok, we're still greedy because it's an SUV (like the fully loaded station wagons of yesteryear were cheap).
We went from a culture where people had a cabin in the mountains or a house at the shore to a society where we had one house, or a condo, which was probably upside down in liquidity.
We had any financial education removed from our school systems and the full force of government, business, and the media to coax us into making every bad financial decision we could.
An now Marc says we are whining. We are the problem. The completely bankrupt victims of the broken system have to STFU and just take it so the system can be repaired. How is that going to work Marc? Where is the extra income going to come from to pay those taxes? Where are the jobs? A repair of the system can't come from those living at the edge of the precipice.
No credibility. You have no credibility.
I already am working more hours at a lower wage, so is everybody else I know (those lucky enough to have jobs) and guess what?
nobody is bitching and complaining, we're all to busy worrying about how long it might be before our current jobs disappear as well and it's back to unemployment, it's already hit a few people I know, one guy who got laid off with me in 09 just got laid off again about 3 weeks ago.
I like Marc but I think this time he's beating a dead horse,the average American working more for less is not a cure for our troubles or even a particularly bright observation, it's just economic reality in this day and age, for myself and millions of others. I don't think the root cause of current economic woes was that john q public was making to much money and yet as always, we are the one's being stuck with the bill.Only this time we have less resources with which to pay it.
I think the real problem is that people look to Washington to do something, that by the very nature of there existence, they can not do.
why people expect that DC will ever be able to, or even make an honest attempt at, slaying the beast they themselves created is beyond me.
someday people are going to have to face up to the reality that the R's and D's really, truly do not give a shit about me and you, except when they need your vote and your money.
Yo, Faber, fuck off jizz-bot. Try working my US factory job. You couldn't do it for one day. Ass.
I suppose that you could do his job and be a well positioned millionaire but you're just too nice a guy. That's special.
Regarding "major military confrontation":
Breaking: Administration to Detail Foiled Iranian Terror Plot (Update: Assassination Plot on US Soil)http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/11/breaking-administration-to-det...
Here is my answer to Mr. Faber:
FUCK YOU for endorsing a race to the bottom, which globally will solve absolutely NOTHING.
Is the gov too fat, regarding expenses? Yup. Do a handful of people get way too high wages? Yup. Does the MAJORITY of people work too few hours, for too high pay?
ERR WTF? WHY DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE SO MANY UNEMPLOYED, YOU FUCKING BASIC-MATHS AVERSE IDIOT!
Right..... keynesianism is bad..... but applying the same flawed logic to jobs, is good!
Marc Faber's ideas could be tweaked. The people who aren't working need to work harder for their efforts. The super rich need to be taxed much more. The low paid need a much higher minimum wage to make it worthwhile to work. A progressive tax is the way to go.
1. Minimum wage reduces employment.
2. A low, broad, flat tax reduces regulatory capture.
3. Putting a welfare floor under those who "lose" in this system is still very do-able, and direct, monthly transfer payments (under the same system we currently use for food stamps, just applied to the total budget needs of the recipient) would reduce both regulatory capture and beaurocratic inefficiencies.
I think in #1, you meant unemployment, not employment. Unfortunatelly, by me replying, you cannot edit it anymore, but without me replying, you perhaps wouldn't have noticed it.
Progressive tax sucks- that's what we have now, and it's an abomination that kills incentives for most Americans.
The reality of the situation is that because of the progressive tax system, coupled with things like the earned income credit and social assistance like Medicare and food stamps, almost everyone at or under the median income (and likely a ways above it) controls essentially the same amount of resources- whether they are a part-time gas station attendant, or a skilled worker putting in 50-60 hours a week.
I don't know where you're at in the spectrum, but I can tell you from personal experience that increases in pay on anything below median income are eaten up by increased taxes- and there is a tipping point right around the $30,000/year range where anyone who had been recieving government benefits is cut off and actually ends up controlling less actual capital because of that cutoff. It's actually fairly common where I live for a skilled worker above $15/hr or so to have a lower standard of living than someone making half of that. It gets better eventually, but not until a person gets well above $40,000/yr, where the progressive tax hikes take a little breather until you get above (IIRC) $85,000.
It's a point I made before in another thread a while back, but it bears repeating- the government is managing the middle and lower classes to keep everyone at roughly the same standard of living. It's a sensible strategy from their point of view, but there are plenty of "poor" people who realize this and intentionally take advantage of it- and that's not a guess, I've personally heard some of these people bragging about how good they are a working the system, and giving advice to others on how to get more benefits while doing less.
The only thing that keeps the middle class in existence under this system is pride, and the more people are beat down to the same common level as everyone around them, the less their pride will be worth to them. There's no recovery under that kind of demoralization.
The only fair tax is a flat percentage, applied to all, without loopholes. If you earn ten bucks, pay one dollar. If you earn ten thousand, pay one thousand. If you earn ten million, pay one million. When everyone knows the rules, and knows what to expect, people do take action to improve their own lives- but when the rules are fuzzy and extra work is just as likely to be punished as it is rewarded, a lot of people just give up in frustration.
A little bit insight - European spending culture revolves around one tax - VAT (Value Added Tax), which itself is oxymoron but works well. More you buy, more you are taxed. Additionally informal barriers are created for imported goods. That means, corporation from outside has much less chance of competing successfully. I still agree on point that Europeans are sometimes taxed too heavily, but now taxes in USA and Europe are coming to closer level.
In fact introducing such tax (and removing some other taxes) in USA also could work well.
Unfortunatelly, such "informal barriers" also known as tariffs, do not exist INSIDE europe, which is why it is divided into export-biased countries and import-biased countries, which is why it is now breaking apart.
So, because europe does not use such measures internally, is why it fails internally... instead of externally, since external shields ARE in place.
the difference in euro and usa taxation rates is that europeans get all the usal stuff and a very secure health and retirement safety net while residents of the usa get poor infrastructure and worse health and retirement benefits in leiu of a military/security complex.
1. Yes, health system in USA is crap compared to Europe.
2. Infrastructure? Probably, but depends on country/location.
3. I am talking about informal barriers that exist. Do you think that let's say Hungarian company can easily sell it's products in France? Hell no. They will be hit with all kinds or red tape. I do see how Eastern European companies struggle to get anywhere, sometimes it is simply impossible. Trade tariffs are not needed if your company just does not get license.
What is pretty stupid, quotas for imports in whole EU. And quotas for country production. But you can't have perfect system.
another good example is japan. it is one of the most protectionist economies in the world. there are tradeoffs(yuk, yuk) the japanese are willing to pay a huge price for rice to protect the rice farmers from cheap imported rice. the usa is the opposite extreme. usa companies with the willful collusion of .gov is willing to sacrifice the usa middle class for the shareholders of the companies by allowing the companies to make products overseas to be impoted back to the usa with little interference.
the usa is still the best market place in the world. everyone wants to sell their stuff here. they should have to pay an entry fee or encouraged to make their products here. it is a rather easy thing to do and ultimately benefits everyone. i have never understood( i do understand why but it makes no sense) why it isn't done.
You know this actually hits a nail on the head that I hadn't really thought of--Europe thrives in the shadow of our military--they don't have to spend nearly as much on defense because if they get into trouble they know that their western interests are aligned with ours and we'll send over the troops and aircraft carriers. What we really ought to do is charge all of Europe a retainer fee to fall under thhe umbrella of our military protection and get them to subsidize a big chunk of our defense spending. They could place a very small tax on every citizen or forefeit a piece of their Vat. If they don't like it, tell them fuck you then, you're on your own from now on. That's what Jobs would do if he were running the country. Hey adobe, piss off....
Idiot. US spends about 100 billion dollars to NATO and to Europe. Combined GDP is over 10 000 billion EUROS you dumbass. The second biggest arms dealers after USA are European nations, UK, France, Germany. Germany alone spends about the same as Russia to military. More Europeans have gone through army as conscripts than there in your fucking Disneyland. We can more than take care of ourselves.
Americans just like to think themselves as great warriors except you seem to be losing every single war since Korea...
Unfortunatelly, most european spending on military and surveilance (especially surveilance), has been geared for..... let's call it "internal" wars.
This of course isn't specific to europe - most countries including the USA have done this. All i'm saying is: A big part of current "defense" spending, isn't spent on defense against other nations, but defense against the own nation. That applies to most western cultures. They know shit may hit the fan. They began making preperations for it, already 10 years ago. Unfortunatelly, when i mentioned this to people 10 years ago, people laughed at me. Now, they don't laugh anymore.
Yes but Europeans are not anymore as obedient a soldiers as US has. If Iran decided to occupy Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Persian Gulf and reserve all oil only for Muslims, Europe could not stop them. Just bombing Libya intermittently was difficult for them. US has the capability to kick them out - if China would lend us a couple trillion for the war and another couple trillion to rebuild it. After which, we would give it back to them and gladly pay them more trillions for the oil we could have just kept which they need to finance Al-Queda etc. So we get something for the trillions we spend on our military instead of just stupid healthcare system that works at less cost.
Really? Your trying to tell someone how great the European tax system is working? You couldn't have picked a worse time for your arguement. We add the VAT here then we will get it on both ends. The more you buy the more you are taxed and the more you make the more you are taxed. It seems to me the only purpose in life now is to pay taxes. That's not exactly an endorsement for living and certainly not for busting your ass and achieving. Takes all the fun out of being successful doesn't it? Be successful, work your ass off to support the rest of the citizenry. Not exactly a slogan I could get behind.
Umm, may i remind you about free market premises? Free market premises include easy entry to the market, and preventing monopolies. Regardless of how much SOME free market proponents may want to deny it, that IMPLIES increasing "discouragement" the more "successful" (which is just another word for "power", and "wealth") you are.
You see, even though it is called a "free market", there are quite different understandings about the "free" part of it. For example, one of them argues, that "free" means "do whatever you fucking want, as long as you can! If you can, you can do it - no matter the consequences and the need"! Yet, an alternative interpretation of the "free"-part, that for -some reason- is much closer to satisfying the original premises of a free market is:
"Reward for success isn't a maxime. You get rewarded as much as it is necessary to encourage marketwide innovation and improvement. Once you accumulated a certain amount of wealth of power, there is no point in encouraging you further, because any further encouragment will result in you being able to SUPPRESS competitors, especially at the bottom end (free market entry)!!! Any anyways, what do you need 3 jets, 100 ipads, 10 computers, and 5 cars for, you fucking greedy wealth hoarder? All you're doing at this point, is sucking dry the ground on which alternative innovations could grow!"
TL/DR? Some interprete "free" as a total lack of rules, and survival of the most powerful (how SUCH people can complain about gov, besides of because of envy, is beyond me). Others may interprete "free" as a defined RANGE in which "darwinistic free market" may happen... a range of power of wealth, choosen so that the bottom end is still enough for "newcomers", and the upper end is sufficient to prevent "monopolies escaping their own failure".
So, what was this again about VAT? Fuck! VAT is a FLAT tax, and it's still not good enough for you, fucking greedy unsatiable parasite? Get the fuck out of the country, scum!
Having struggled to save money for most of my life, it does seem a little unfair that I would then be taxed on it again when I spend it if we shift from income tax oriented to VAT oriented. I guess it works for people who never saved. If it was going for something I believed would make my kids lives better, it could be OK. I would hate to pay VAT and see it disappear into sinkholes like Afghanistand and Iraq or banksters or overpriced useless college degrees. If it was dedicated to something like free government health clinics where anyone could see a doctor for basic medical care and get generic prescriptions for simple things, that would be OK.
Trivia: would you consider it "collectively" "more than fair", if all you had to pay for, is flat taxes (VAT being among them), BUT no other taxes?
There's your answer. The unfairness about current tax-systems, isn't VAT, or any other single specific tax. It is that the gov invents taxes out of thin air, and makes you pay not double, not twice, not quadruble, not... oh, who even is counting anymore? It's totally ARBITRARY, and the taxcode is designed for those "who can afford it" - FUCK THAT. The problem isn't any single specific tax - the problem is that no it is created based not on fairness regardin the population and the market, but plain and simply gov-deficits.... which in this fucked up economy model in turn means some really strong lobby, having fucked up big!
Your problem aren't taxes. Your problem is that what they are spent on, is totally batshit insane, arbitrary, and has NOTHING TO DO WITH BENEFITING YOU AND YOUR NEIGHBOURS! "Modern" taxes aren't about "community service" - they're extortion for a mafia. You're digusted? Great, but then please vent your anger at the major cheaters.... errr, i mean "dealers".
Apparently, we have magically discovered ways to spend money without generating tax revenue. For 30 years I have been hearing how we would have massive inflation due to budget deficits and massive dollar depreciation due to trade deficits. Hasn't really happened (Yes if you bought yen, gold, DM would have been good at certain times).
Now we have the biggest budget deficits and government debts in history with almost the worst econmic outlook for the US in history. Yet everyone in the world is rushing to lend us money at 0-2%.
I think we should issue massive quantities of 100 year bonds. Also some zero coupon 100 year bonds. Let's see how far thiis madness will go.
If it works, we buy gold and then utilize our military capability to get more gold before that capability inevitably declines with our economic potential. Canada has a lot of gold and silver. Mexico has a lot of silver. Shouldn't be hard
When you are in a bubble, make tulips.
Moneytrendsresearch.com for more insight like this!!!
Faber does not get it. When you owe as much as Americans owe, you cannot cut back and work harder for less. You are already committed to earning 100k govt salary for doing nothing because 100k is what it takes to pay the mortgage, car, and college payments as well as the debt payments. You can have 2-3 decades of no growth and you still won't be out of the hole. You have to go BK and then maybe you have a chance. And then old (useless) fucks like Faber will be swimming naked and will die shortly after. math can't be argued with.
Mr. Faber obviously doen't work for a living - at least not according to Mark Twain's definition of "Work consists of what a body is obliged to do." Nobody who relies on selling his labor for the basics of life in the United States would spout such nonsense. But that's OK Tyler, we need to hear more from this sort of jackass uber-capitalist. You betcha! The world won't be OK until they own it ALL.
"Alas, in that he is also correct, and as we said back in early 2010, when the current episode of extend and pretend ends and the can kicking exercise finally fails, next up is war."
And, right on cue:
"The FBI and the DEA have disrupted a plot involving Iran to commit terrorism inside the United States, a senior U.S. official told CNN Tuesday. The official said the alleged plan was directed by elements of the Iranian government and involved a plot to kill the Saudi ambassador to the United States."
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/11/official-fbi-dea-disrupt-terror-plo...
Vaguely reminiscient of Arbeit Macht Frei.
the answer, my friend, is blowing up the world. the answer is blowing up the world.
the phoenix must burn up before it can be reborn.
The government is forcing lower wages on us via price inflation.
Faber's a bazillionaire, right? Hmmmm, him telling me to work more for lesssssssss. Most of my friends and acquaintances and myself are already doing that. Hmmmm, I'm slow, but not stupid. How about you working more and earning less, Mark to Mark. Can someone tell me what's right with this picture?
Clearly, his opinion counts more than yours does because his has lots of zeroes behind it.
Go Marc to Market. haha...that was good. Really.
How about we first fire and/or prosecute/fine everyone in the financial industry and government who failed to do their job or who committed fraud: that alone should result in 100's of billions of savings and open up millions of jobs for hardworking, honest individuals.
When faber starts working harder for less money I will do the same.
Faber just another Wall Street tycoon, who cares what he thinks?
Wall street can't sell a f'ing thing that someone else hasn't dug up first
Burn it down.
So, seeing as the majority of people posting here are most likely Americans, who here is willing to take a pay cut as Marc Faber suggests, and do the same job for less, while prices continue to rise for most essential items you purchase?
If only this were possible. Too bad no real pols thinks this way.
End the illegal Federal Reserve and their henchmen the IRS. ALL income taxes to the IRS go to pay the private bankers the interest on the debt. How is it we pay interest on our own money???????????
This fat worthless pig Faber is one of "them".. give that bastard a shovel and let him go out and "earn" a living, rather than push paper around via insider information, that make him risk free profits...... you know...... the hell with the shovel...... get a ROPE!!!!.... for change to happen you need to MAKE it happen , these bankers will only understand one thing... raw mob power at their doorsteps...
Obviously Tyler has never been to Montreal and jumped all over Mark's party induced rant to justify the tired old "lazy poor" position. Watch it again, and you can see he was working with about an hours sleep (or less), and nothing he said (this time... and I love the guy) should be taken seriously... party on Mark...lol!
The largest country on earth has a flat tax.....what is the problem, America? Too many lawyers and accountants?
The largest country on earth is Russia. They have a flat tax? Interesting but the real tax is determined by how much money the local mafia thinks you should give them. If you don't comply, your findable assets get confiscated and you end up in a Siberian jail or dead if you weren't able to escape. Not so many lawyers and accountants but lots of bodyguards if you have money and you need them all the time rather than a couple days a year.
Not that the present US tax system isn't a ridiculous conglomeration of confusing rules designed to employ lawyers and accountants. Lower levels of US government are run by lawyers. Think are tax laws are bad - don't get divorced in US. Every single thing that's already been argued about 10 million times has to be rehashed over and over.
the age of freddie the freeloader is concluding, no worry lots of new hiring at the government broom factories.
Slovakia Rejects European Bailout
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-11/slovakia-parliament-to-vote-again-on-euro-zone-fun
Thank God...
Lame.
Results of Fox News poll about Occupy Wall Street protests:
http://yfrog.com/o01kd3j
Here is the job program they will annouce for those kids pretty soon.
http://www.popaganda.com/media/blogs/billboards/smallpoorbill.jpg
The key thing I've noticed in all of this economic analysis these days is when people say we need to work for less, they mean people other than themselves. The pontificator's work is highly valuable and their salaries should remain high. Everyone else, however, isn't nearly as valuable, and therefore should cut back on their quality of life and their salary.
Like many others here who have included Peak Oil in their comments, the question I always ask people about any economic recovery is a "recovery" to what? Colonial/Crony Capitalism has run its course. The only "recovery" we can hope for is a new paradigm that doesn't kills millions in the transition.
Ha ha ha. The top 1% own 85% of the nations wealth. Farber and Durden think the answer is to give them a bigger piece of the pie.
Here's a better idea. Decapitate the top 1% and parade the heads thru the streets on sticks. Man I love a good parade.
A man after my own heart.
Deflationary readjustments resulting in lower wages and lower living standards cause more market inefficiency and more pain to most people versus inflationary readjustments resulting in higher nominal wages, because the aberage person is stupid according to Keynes.
I just watched the 8+ minutes of the video.
His main theme is that Western governments are growing like a cancer and that the US needs a leader that will come in and say stop spending, start saving, and we are going to work our way out of this debt mess.
Sounds like a winning formula to me. I don't see any reason to get bent out of shape about it.
It's Envy Day at ZH.
Incomes falling, credit contracting, mortgage rates rising, what's not to like?
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/10/11/699021/a-primex-primer-also-featuring-abx/
This site should have a Marc Faber corner. What distinguishes Marc from other professional investors is that he takes time to read and answer emails when possible. It is this groundedness, that in my mind, separates him from herd and helps contribute to his refreshing point of views.
Marc publishishes a report on GloomBoomDoom.com once a month. It will never happen, but it would be awesome if he became a contributor on ZeroHedge.
"You Need To Tighten Your Belts, You Need To Work More For Lower Salaries"
You first Marc...
No
I want more more more
How about we enact some austerity on the military-industrial complex, warfare-welfare state, and the international finance cartel?
Faber is calling the China bust, he is on the money. See that Shanghai government attempt at a meltup last session? Incredible dump of volume on the buyside, only to go negative and end up flat on the close.
And Copper and Gold went sell again.
Presently I work 60 hours a week at a regular job and several dozen more on a part time business. In real terms, I make less from this than I did 30 years ago working 40 hours a week at just the regular job and that came with free health insurance, pension,etc (all gone now of course). Most of my income is presently going to colleges (cost increase about 800%) from which my kids MAY get a higher than minimum wage job if jobs for their major are not outsourced faster than people presently doing them die.
I guess I could squeeze in a few additional hours a week to work on my local banksters lawn for free or maybe just sit around gazing at him worshipfully while he explains how the economy works. The government should set up a web site to coordinate these opportunities.
sigh... oh well then... if you can suck it up so can I, I guess.
65hrs is a short week for me. Average is 70-80. I make slightly less than I did in 2003. Fuck it though. Bring on the lawnmowers. We must make certain the Ponzi survives.
You sicken me you lazy bastard. Tote that barge, lift that bale...or they'll get some 8 year old to do it for pennies in some third world hell hole.
Work yourself to an early grave and maybe you'll get lucky and be reincarnated as a do nothing, appreciate nothing, help no one, never have to work or worry, trust fund baby...I mean "job creator".
So, Marc Faber says we need to focus on what's most broken in US society, our government? Either this remark is disingenuous or Faber is an idiot. I'm fairly confident Faber knows that the US government is bought and paid for by corporations, financial corporations in particular. Therefore, his comment appears to me to be disingenuous and self-serving.
Marc is 100% right. The problem is we think that government/s will constantly underwrite OUR errors in the capital markets. We have to take the PAIN. That is it. Take the PAIN you become stronger and smarter. We have become weak and pitiful. Wall Street is weak, rich, but weak. It deserves the pain trade from hell...and it will come. This time they get NO bailouts, they collapse, get punched down and then the stronger gets up and starts again.
The boom/bust cycles of finance are not the end of the world, it's just weeding out the weaker aspects and moving forward. Nature fixes greed by slamming you into reality and reality hurts.
icecream for Wall Street
http://www.benjerry.com/activism/occupy-movement/
...and the PAIN trade appears to be very close now, as in a c-hair away close.
What is usually interesting about Mark Faber is concrete vision of markets and investment advice. I would take very seriously his remark about possible strengthening of US Dollar based on tigntening in liquidity. That is precisely the point I made several times.
This comment has obvious implications on PM and stock markets. Once again, those who hope to see the price of Gold sky-rocketing should not hold their breath until, of course, Bernanke start printing again (which is unfortunately coming).
I'm just a simple engineer... But Jeezus fuckin Christ of course Americans have been overpaid for years. The American Blue Collar Middle Class was an anomaly- it only existed because the rest of the world was destroyed after WWII.
Of course we knew it was coming to an end as the other countries rebuilt by investing in modernizing and implementing new manufacturing technologies while America was busy poking its nose into 100+ countries and rifling them with EHM and "making money" without actually making anything but military hardware. The only thing that saved the middle class for the last 10 years was the computer technologies in the service sector...and now that is gone. We have known this is coming.
It is over people. We got only one way out...we got to start drilling the Bakken field. That is how you "make money", you fuckin economic midgets.
"we got to start drilling the Bakken field"
Or why don't we just paint the deserts with solar panels and crank out millions of electric cars?
Trying to solve Peak Oil by extracting more oil is like .... oh I don't know, it's like something, very stupid. By drilling the Bakken field we will be able to grow the economy a bit more and then when that soon gets depleted then we wll bein the same situation as now, but only worse. Surely an engineer like you can appreciate that.
Working men and women of the world to the Marc Fabers of this world.
Enjoy your status while you can.
Guess he's a capitalist bankster shill all along and that is the problem. ALL the Gold bugs that are likely to be published somewhere are capitalist bankster shills, cos they've all got a vault, or vaults full of money. Yet there are people who actually believe they are on the hoi polloi's side, with their talk of Gold as money??????? Dream on.
SO, if those guys who are saying Faber is right will please line up to give away their un-earned standard of living...
You guys make me laugh. No, make that weep with incredulity at people's double standards.
hahahahaah "...thats because no one wants to work in the UK...."
Theres shit loads of oil. 980bn barrels or 41 yrs at current consumption and current prices.
But... consumption will double every how many years. NO oil within 25 years, tops.
Just the threat of drilling would drop the price to $50/bl though...just sayin this could help NOW.
Maybe offer $5k to the idiots to get sterilized then with fewer idiots alive something can be done.
Welfare has handicapped a whole generation of people that can't take care of themselves much less perform a task for money <or even a trick like a monkey, that is beneath them>.
The problem is there isn't enough resources left to allow everyone to work full time like the good ol' days. Economic growth on a global scale is finished. Automation technology has put people out of work. The only way to improve unemployment is to reduce the work week to better spread out the remaining job opportunites amonst the population.
A lack of power to run labor saving devices should increase the need for manual labor and therefore the number of job openings would increase.
Agreed!
You guys sound like the central planners in Atlas Shrugged..
yes back to the stone age! idiots.
The problem is and always be the looters ah breeders that mooch everything and pay nothing in taxes. We should never have rewarded the wrong people to have so many kids.
Am I ready to se them get fucked??? Yes.-anything to stop their growth.
Hah, imagine that -- putting in the effort to understand energy and how it drives the economy is deemed to be "central planning" by the Austrians. Sure, I guess so, when you believe in magic hocus pocus economic fairy tales, then in comparison I guess everything sounds like central planning.
Austrians wouldn't call this discussion central planning. And it's the Keynesians who believe in a magical, cargo-cult economy.
One can think through a scenario without advocating it.
Tarp and the QE programs were the biggest welfares ever.
The rich have some nerve attacking welfare/the poor.
The problem with the remaining oil is you need natural gas just to turn it into something like regular oil, it is of such poor quality.
Who can blame the average Joes of the West for wanting a better lifestyle? The problem was, the already filthy rich mandated that they were entitled to an even greater share and the only way they could achieve that was by moving everything to cheap labour countries.
Who are the victims here and who are the felons?
Faber's no different to all the other moneyed people, expecting the average Joes to pay for his kind's largesse. The French did something about this just over 200 years ago and a modern-day re-enactment might just be on the cards, once the average Joes get really angry.
Indians are better programmers and work for less than Americans. i'm not sure about that. The Indians are also better telemarketers because when they phone you to sell you a product to fix your computer virus you can tell them "fuck off you black bastard", and their response might be that they will "stup your wife" but you know they won't track you down and shoot you. They don't take it personally. They are just trying to make a living.
(Sung to the tune of 'And the Band Played On')
Timmy and Ben were sure our world would end
If the banks played on;
So Hank gave 'em some cash to prevent a big crash,
But the banks played on.
Now the voters are tired and our economy's mired
In a slump 'cause the jobs are all gone,
(no jobs!)
And the President's sure that more cash is the cure,
So the banks play on!
"you have to save more, work more"
"i find it difficult to envision how the US and western Europe can return to healthy sustainable growth"
More oxymorons from a moron. You can't be serious, and why do you give this guy a sticky thread? Here's some news guys, "sustainable economic growth" violates the laws of physics, there is no such thing. Growth is the PROBLEM, not the solution.
Please, no more imaginary Austrian thought experiments! The whole field of economics is a farce. You Austrian morons are no better than the Keynesians, all a bunch of arrogant inflated theorists obsessed with your simplistic models of how the world works.
You stupid morons, jobs haven't left America because it is over-regulated, jobs have left because China pegs its currency artificially low and the Fed artificially inflates the purchasing power of the dollar.
But doesn't that make imported goods more affordable for working families?
But what are those working families going to do for work in the first place? America's economy has been developed around making jobs around CONSUMPTION, to consume products made overseas with prices kept artificially low by the "exhorbitant privelege" of having the world's reserve currency. Technology has created a situation where there is excess labour everywhere in the world. What has happened is that dollars get exported from the US and goods get imported in. Prices in dollars for goods are kept artificially low, and prices for labour in China are kept artificially low. Excess labour in America consumes; excess labour in China produces. This system works for all parties, until dollars and goods no longer flow the way they are supposed to. We are near that point. Then America will collapse into the abyss because you can't sustain an economy around service-sector consumer jobs when no other country is going to accept your currency for exchange with goods because you have lost your reserve currency status.
Unintended consequences are a result of central planning. All the problems you cite are the result of governmental attempts to boost the economy (and curry favor with their backers).
If the government chooses to punish China for devaluing its currency one of the unintended consequence will be higher prices for consumer goods which will further impoverish working families. That's a simple fact.
When the government helps one person some other person pays the price because government doesn't produce anything itself or create any real opportunities for growth. Government can only redistribute wealth or opportunity from one person or another.
What consumer goods? TV? - You buy one for $300, it lasts for 5 years. Suppose it goes to $500 - big deal. They would probably make them some other country anyway still for $300.
Plastic toy crapola and kitchen gadgets, etc - The manufacturing cost of these is practically zero. All the cost is in the distribution and distributor profit margins. If the manufacturing cost went up 100%, the price might go up 10%. No one needs this stuff anyway.
Clothes - they already pretend to make them in other countries to get around trade restrictions and this can actually be done if necessary. Who doesn't have enough clothes already (males anyway). Am I going to have to spend $11/year on socks instead of $9. I'll survive.
Houses, cars, food, college, medical and energy are the big costs for almost everyone. None of this comes from China and if it did you would probably regret buying it.
The facts say otherwise:
US trade deficit with China:
2011* -$160,367,000,000
2010 -$273,063,000,000
* January 2011 through July 2011
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html
That's about $800 per American. My health insurance went up $2,500 this year. If the cost of my Chinese imports goes up to $1,600 it's no big deal. Never mind that they probably won't go up anyway because they need to maintain full emploment to stay in power or we will get them VietNam, etc or that some of the jobs might come back here. We could pay for most of that by letting China and Japan protect their own sealanes to the Middle East oil.
$800 per American roughly represents each American's share of the annual trade deficit with China not the average value of Chinese goods consumed by each American annually. And if trade with China is of such minor concern then all this currency manipulation talk is just a tempest in a teapot. Why bother?
- The number one US export to China is components for electronic equipment such as chips for Iphones. Since this is already in dollars and coming back to us, it makes no difference. Number two is food. They will still need food. No place to get it except US/Can/Aus. Number three is chemcials, again used primarily to make products to send back to us. Number 4 is transportation equipment to move all this stuff around. Number 5 is machinery primarily from US factories to relocate them there.
- Even if none of that was true, the total number would still be only $1200. Almost all of this could easily be imported from other cheap countries that are less of a threat. The components of the high value stuff are still largely made in Taiwan, Japan, US and it wouldn't take long to move some factories which would operate at a slightly higher cost.
- It's not a tempest in a teapot because several million American manufacturing jobs were moved to China including all the equipment previously used here. Now China is demanding the R&D also be moved as condition to accessing their market. GE Medical just did it. In addition, they steal almost all of our intellectual property - movies, music, software,pharmaceuticals,patents,industrial processes, even books. They even have entire fake Apple stores down to the last detail. They also employ at least tens of thousands of hackers to steal other intellectual property from US companies and government agencies. They rerouted the entire internet through China briefly to assist in this effort. They have huge hacker operations for future use against the US and probably caused several large power failures during trial runs. It's not in our interest to keep giving them money even though they lend most of it back to us.
How much does China pay you to push their agenda?
I guess $60 would be enough since that's what I usually pay Chinese hookers.
I didn't realize that the Chinese are anarchists.
I usually respect this guy, but many of these statements are ridiculous. He's blaming the rape victim for having tits. Somehow I think many of these "lazy buggers" would gladly sacrifice and work hard and if some key heads rolled, and printing stopped.
Marc Faber's economics 101. "why should you be rich, just like me. I need you to be near worthless pieces of donkey do, so that I can exploit your hunger for 'barely enough to make a living' work even more".
Come back to the USA or Europe to live and wait for the revolution.
I like Faber's insights generally, but this pissed me off. Per hour worked, the US has increased productivity since the crisis. Meanwhile, we ARE working for less money in terms of inflation-adjusted dollars. Americans' wages have been stagnant for 30 years so what the fuck? Take another ski trip, Marc.
Jimmy Goldsmith knew a thing or two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI
this is Hopium at its finest. The hippies tried it already.
I stick with my thesis, that since we've just passed through the great "falling away" or apostasy, written of by Apostle Paul in Thessalonians-- from about 1890 to present-- and there is no longer any Christian concensus in the west, that we ain't goin' back to no capitalism.
yeah because decreasing wages will allow consumers to pay off their "too much debt" so much quicker....
how about increasing wages/decreasing taxes so then private debt can be paid off and people can start saving/spending?
Last of your worries should be the lack of hydrocarbons, I wish they were more exotic on this planet.
OK, I will Mark. But first I want all the banksters who broke the law to go to jail, and all of my taxes that were used to bail out failed banksters to go back to the Treasury.
OK, I will Mark. But first I want all the banksters who broke the law to go to jail, and all of my taxes that were used to bail out failed banksters to go back to the Treasury.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" - John Lennon
That basically describes many Americans. You guys are so busy trying to Make It Big Time that you overwork during your best years, sacrifice your health, skip the holidays, miss even the important years of your kids growing up.
For what? That you can brag your buddies about your car and house at the hospital when you hit 55, thanks to heart attack? Nobody even visists you there, including ex-wives. What a waste.
Very true but it's not usually ambition - it's desperation.
You have to make some money to live in a neighborhood where the school isn't useless. School quality is one of the biggest determinants of housing cost so for the same house in a good school district you have to make a lot more.
Unless you work for the government or are self employed, you feel like you have very little job security and need to make it while you can. Nothing like the French law on only working 40 hours a week here - many white collar jobs you have to work 50-70 just to keep from getting fired.
Health insurance is very expensive even if you buy health insurance there are many other costs not covered by it.
Social security pays very little compared to comparable Euro programs in most countries.
Unemployment pays slightly more then welfare and usually for only a brief time.
God help you if you get disabled.
Divorce and child support are also potentially nearly bankrupting.
If you get through that, college can easily cost half a middle classes persons income for one kid alone. If you don't send your kid to college, not much trade school/apprentice route in US. Straight to fast food restaurant. That may happen after college also.
However, we do have the most powerful military in the history of the world which we use to occupy the most worthless land areas with the most deranged natives in return for giving them lots of money. No one else can do this.
Who the fukk is We, we ,we...? You think you count if you are one of the Pawnee tribal Americans, the middle-class of America, now invited to return to your reservation. Hell, either you are an Oligarch, in which case you are not in your family here on ZH, or your are a delusional Pawnee lost in translation. Go home and drink 'fire water'. You are toast as far as the Oligarchy is concerned
YOU COMMONERS MUST SUFFER TO SUPPORT THE PONZI. DO YOU NOT WANT TO TOIL HARDER FOR THE COMMON GOOD? WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THE PONZI COLLAPSES, THINK OF THE CHILDREN! DO YOU WANT TO BE GUILTY IN PERPETUATING SUCH A CRIME?
SIGNED,
ELITES
PS
WELCOME TO NEOFEUDALISM
PPS
BITCHEZ!
Total nonsense Mr Faber. INCOME solves debt not lower wages. PRODUCTION creates INCOME. What the country needs is PRODUCTION and that went to other countries for various reasons. The solution is a return of PRODUCTION not your vision. Americans are more than willing to work for a FAIR wage. You can stuff your vision.
BOOM! After hrs decimation ala Aloca.
http://www.investorplace.com/2011/10/alcoa-swings-and-misses-tuesday%E2%...
The diversification of risk into the value market place has seeming left the gambits and gambles of the major banking fraternities on the shoulders of every nations' taxpayer. It is evident that the bankers have assumed risk by investing in the common folk, who through their ignorance or lack of desire-for-success have defaulted on the credit that was given to them. We give kudos, or credit to those people who have performed exceptionally well. I give Nikolai Tesla credit for creating the modern electrical era. Although he literally single-handedly created the world we live in today by his invention of AC current, he was short shrifted by those people who underwrote the process whereby he was enable to create. Nikola Tesla was a TRULY GREAT man, whose genius and vision surpassed that of his financial better-offs, who were yet enabled to the lions' share of profits because Tesla had no interest in organizing the common society. The creator capitalists that Ayn Rand envisioned in her novels have yet to arrive. The men and women who understand both the physical and emotional, or social, will be the true powerhouses and mighty forging forces that hammer-out tomorrow's days.
The disgruntled masses hovering on Wall Street, the so-called Occupy movements, have fallen on hard times due to both their own actions and the actions of their creditors. The body politic either could not understand the contracts they were signing, or they refused to read them. The first is excusable, the second is not. The bankers enabled an addict; they were peddling the addiction of selling-out the future for Consumption Now. They provided that service in return for the expectation that people would make good on that promise to produce adequate value in the future to at least make up for what they are consuming today with the credit they had been granted. Did the common go out and buy capital goods, even if only meagre ones? Was their consumption oriented towards future production? NO! it was not. The bankers and the commons are BOTH guilty of the predicament that we find ourselves.
Only through polymathematics will we wake to a brighter tomorrow.
Who wants to attempt to co-opt the Occupy _ peoples?
tick... tock...
/NO SARC.
I'll cast a stone, I guess.
I always read my contracts, and walk away when they have a hook in them. I've never applied for or opened a credit card- and the goods I've purchased over the past ten or twelve years have been about 90% tools, made in the US when possible, the highest quality available when not. The goal used to be to start a company, but now it's just to keep my kids fed.
My fiancee used to have a credit card- until she got divorced, and it snowballed on her. Three years later, she was living with me, and got served with a lawsuit over it. Using the supplied bills, I worked up a spreadsheet that showed exactly how the credit card worked- in 18 months, she spent $90, and JP Morgan/Chase was charging her $1700 in fees and interest. Before I showed her the spreadsheet, I handed her the terms, and asked her to read them, then handed her a bill, and asked her how much she was being charged for the line of credit. She was taking it seriously, and thinking about it, and then pointed to the APR. It was not a matter of laziness on her part, it was a matter of not being able to understand the full impact of the legal gobbledygook. She was honestly shocked when I showed her the numbers in plain form. $90 worth of groceries and diapers for her children turned into a $3000 bill.
So, are we the ones who should be taken out to the woodshed? I did buy capital goods, and intended to employ others- it was slow, patient work that took years to do without credit, and I was almost there. Now we stretch every single penny until it screams to stockpile food and silver- because our government failed, and the banks stole the country.
What has happened isn't simple theft- when all the cards are finally down, it's going to be tantamount to murder on a genocidal scale- and you expect me to lay that at the feet of regular people who kept their shoulders to the wheel and did their best with what they had?
Not in this lifetime. The "elite" have a quickly narrowing window to figure out some pretense to rebalance the system, or they will pay for their hubris with blood. I don't care if they are still rich- but I do care that they are intentionally murdering my neighbors so that they can shit on golden toilets.
Two words that should grant relief, provided you love to build, which you seem to: unsecured debt.
No collateral exists contracturally, they gave your fiance' nothing for nothing. She need not give them a thing... but she'll get a demerit.
to understand the repurcussions attendant on receiving a demerit, see some episode of the US T.V. show The Office: [DWIGHT to JIM]
It costs me... lets see
15$ to cross a bridge
80$ to fill my tank with gas, but realistlcly lets say 5$ for gas a day.
Coffee is 2$ a bagle is like 3$ so like 5 $ for breakfast
Lunch is like 8$ (if you eat shit food that will give you diarhea or some other disease)
Dinner is like 20$ (if you eat like a human being)
Water is like 3 $ a bottle depending where you are.
So lets see, on average you can spend about 30 - 45$ a day "working and survivng" , and thats without a family/electricty/insurance for car/rent etc.... etc...
I make 75$ a day, the government takes 50% of that and blows it on 20$ muffins and porn.
So im left with anywhere between 30-45$
In order to adjust, I downed my consumption to
1 bowl of oatmeal , 1 cup of tea (all home made) , and a single apple a day.
Im still breaking even, but on the plus side , I lost 25 lbs. ( I weigh about 165)
If I work for any less, Im going to starve to death I think.
PS: Its starting to PISS ME OFF when I see a cop in a brand new car and he doesn't even fit behind the wheel because hes 300lb over-weight.
FUCKING FAT FUCK GOVERNMENT GET OFF MY FUCKING BACK YOU FAT FUCKING TUB OF LARD ASS USELESS EATERS GET REAL JOBS AND STOP SPENDING MY FUCKING MONEY ON PORN AND CHEEZE WIZZ.
Nice rant.
Hey Dr Wolf, here's a little fact you might have overlooked. That "government" you despise, which in actuality is nothing more than a tool of Wall Street, is artificially suppressing energy prices and artificially propping up your dollars. Therefore, when that system collapses and you see wonderful "free markets" emerge, your costs are going to go through the roof. Don't complin about high energy prices -- what do you expect in a world of peak oil?
Good news for PMs?
CFTC Said to Have Enough Votes to Approve Speculation Limits By Silla Brush - Oct 11, 2011
The U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission has the three votes necessary to approve limits on speculation in oil, natural gas and other commodities at an Oct. 18 meeting, said a person briefed on the rule-making process.
At the same meeting in Washington, the agency’s five commissioners may vote on rules governing clearinghouses that stand between buyers and sellers in derivatives markets, CFTC Chairman Gary Gensler said in a speech at a Futures Industry Association conference today in Chicago. The agency also may vote to delay until next year regulations originally set to be completed by July 2010.
“We are focusing on considering these rules thoughtfully - - not against a clock,” Gensler said in the speech.
The person briefed on the process spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision-making isn’t public.
The rules will govern trades conducted by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS), JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) and transactions on CME Group Inc. (CME), the world’s largest futures exchange, among others.
The so-called position-limits rule to curb speculation will include an analysis estimating that it will cost the financial industry at least $100 million to comply, Scott O’Malia, a CFTC commissioner, told reporters at the conference. The position- limits rule may also come up for a vote on Oct. 18, he said.