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Mike Krieger Asks Whether September 11, 2001 Is Our Big Lie
From Michael Krieger of KAM LP
“I am convinced that there was a direct line between at least some of the terrorists who carried out the September 11th attacks and the government of Saudi Arabia,” former Senator Bob Graham, Democrat of Florida, said in an affidavit filed as part of a lawsuit brought against the Saudi government and dozens of institutions in the country by families of Sept. 11 victims and others. Mr. Graham led a joint 2002 Congressional inquiry into the attacks.
Their affidavits, which were filed on Friday and have not previously been disclosed, are part of a multibillion-dollar lawsuit that has wound its way through federal courts since 2002. An appellate court, reversing an earlier decision, said in November that foreign nations were not immune to lawsuits under certain terrorism claims, clearing the way for parts of the Saudi case to be reheard in United States District Court in Manhattan.
Still, Washington has continued to stand behind Saudi Arabia publicly, with the Justice Department joining the kingdom in trying to have the lawsuits thrown out of court on the grounds that the Saudis are protected by international immunity.
The senators’ assertions “might inject some temporary strain or awkwardness at a diplomatic level,” said Kenneth L. Wainstein, a senior national security official in the George W. Bush administration. Even so, he said, “the United States and the Saudis have developed strong counterterrorism cooperation over the last decade, and that relationship will not be undermined.”
- NY Times article from today
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don’t think.
- Adolf Hitler
September 11, 2001: Our Big Lie
I wasn’t planning on writing this week, but so much stuff has come out in the last two days that I couldn’t help myself from trying to get this information out to as wide an audience as possible. Those of you that have been long time readers are aware of the fact that I witnessed 9/11 firsthand. On that fateful morning, I was getting breakfast at 3 World Financial Center when all of a sudden people started panicking and saying we were evacuating the building. I never made it back up to my cubicle and instead took my toast and orange juice downstairs with me. When I got down there I couldn’t believe my eyes. There in from of me was a huge smoldering black hole in the first tower that was hit. I was one block away just starring at this symbol of the city I was born in with sheer terror. People all around starting speculating as to what caused it. I heard ridiculous theories such as a “helicopter hit it.” It looked like a bomb to me. In any event, we all stood there very close until out of nowhere I heard a massive explosion and saw debris spewing from behind the building. In case you are unaware of how the buildings were situated, from my viewpoint the first building that got hit totally blocked the second tower. I didn’t see or hear a plane, just a massive explosion. The ground shook and people started to stampede away. I almost got tossed into a nearby trashcan as my opened orange juice container spilled all over me. I retreated about one hundred yards back to regroup with the herd.
At this point the word had started to get around that two planes had hit the buildings. Several friends and I decided to walk back to my apartment, which at the time was on 12th street between 3rd and 4th avenue. Cell phones didn’t work. My parents and brother who was studying abroad in Australia at the time all thought I might be dead. I saw people jumping to their death. I saw the first building come down in person as I walked home. I never returned to 3 World Financial Center as it became a temporary morgue. Lehman Brothers relocated to the Sheraton Hotels in Midtown for the next several months and my group worked out of a small conference room.
While 9/11 was far more traumatic for many Americans than for myself, it really messed me up emotionally for a while. I thought about joining the armed forces or the newly created Department of Homeland Security. I almost quit my job to get a graduate degree in something I could do to help fight the “war on terror.” The city of my birth was attacked and two great symbols I had seen repeatedly growing up had suddenly vanished. I never once questioned anything about 9/11 for many, many years. I was emotionally reprogrammed. I now realize that was the intent and I am not happy about it.
Look, I will be the first to say I have no idea what really happened on that day, but I can tell you one thing. I am 100% convinced that it wasn’t 19 cave dwelling Al Qaeda members who hate us for our “freedoms.” I can also tell you that two planes didn’t take down three buildings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=972ETepp4GI. Building 7. Oh building 7. Explain to me how this massive building came down demolition style when nothing hit it?
The real reason I am writing this piece today is because of a very, very important article from the NY Times, parts of which I have quoted at the top. The article shows how two former Senators have said in sworn statements that they believe the government of Saudi Arabia was directly involved in the attacks. Now, such speculation is not new; however, let’s not forget the very close relationships that many of the elite in the U.S. have with the Saudi government. Furthermore, let’s analyze some of the passages in the article in a little more detail.
Still, Washington has continued to stand behind Saudi Arabia publicly, with the Justice Department joining the kingdom in trying to have the lawsuits thrown out of court on the grounds that the Saudis are protected by international immunity.
The senators’ assertions “might inject some temporary strain or awkwardness at a diplomatic level,” said Kenneth L. Wainstein, a senior national security official in the George W. Bush administration. Even so, he said, “the United States and the Saudis have developed strong counterterrorism cooperation over the last decade, and that relationship will not be undermined.”
Let’s start with the first line. The “Saudis are protected by international immunity.” WTF does that mean? They are protected by international immunity? Where was this international immunity for Iraq before we bombed them into the stone age? Where was the international immunity for Libya before we decided regime change would be a good idea there? Where is the international immunity for Iran now? The hypocrisy and ridiculousness of the propaganda has now reached epic status.
Now to the second line. “Even so, he said, “the United States and the Saudis have developed strong counterterrorism cooperation over the last decade, and that relationship will not be undermined.” If this doesn’t tell you right then and there that the entire “war on terror” is a smokescreen sham then nothing will. So let me get this straight. According to this logic it may not matter that the Saudis were involved in 9/11 because they have been a great ally in counterterrorism. So the guys that played a role in the attack are our allies in fighting themselves. How convenient! 2+2 does indeed equal 5 in the USA.
Now here is a very telling clip to watch from that creep Joe Scarborough, who is probably a creation of Operation Mockingbird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird. Here is the clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv_DBMo5Dzc&feature=player_embedded
Did you catch that? When confronted with the potential of Saudi involvement, this little weasel Steven Rattner (remember he was Obama’s car czar) comes out and states “I think it may fall a little bit into the category of things you just kind of don’t want to know.” Excuse me Rattner? Things WHO doesn’t want to know. I sure as hell want to know and I am pretty sure everyone else in America and world wants to know since this event is what led to a massive crackdown on civil liberties and wars all across the world. Not to mention the fact it has led to U.S. fiscal and economic ruin. What he means is that this is something the government doesn’t want YOU to know. Notice how right away he mentions how much oil the Saudis produce. This clip really exposes the mindset of the criminals that make up the U.S. social, political and economic elite.
Then Donnie Deutch says “I don’t know where you go with this,” to which Scarborough states “I don’t think you go anywhere with this.” Go back to sleep America.
Then there is the real kicker. They end the segment debating whether they will be summering in the Hamptons, Martha’s Vineyard or Nantucket. Laughing the whole time. Laughing at their audience for being such stupid sheep.
Andrew Breitbart
I want to conclude this piece by stating I am quite curious what sorts of natural causes made a 43 year old collapse. As my friend commented…”He's in decent shape and goes naturally yet Soros and Rockefeller look the like living dead yet they are walking and live to be 185yrs old.”
Oh and by the way. He claimed to have videos that would expose banker puppet Obama. Don’t believe me? Take a watch. He made this statement 20 days ago. Then drops dead. At least they didn’t use a hot tub this time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fRQ2lIQ3Lg
RIP Andrew. I didn’t always agree with you, but you were a fighter.
Rest up this weekend everyone. I think things are about to get crazy.
Peace and wisdom,
Mike
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It's funny, because despite being portrayed as holy, is actually shit.
In what way? Why do you think so? No tease, please. How about some links?
If there's one thing I'm confident of, it's to trust the words coming out of the mouths of those esteemed senators he is citing.
</SARC>
Not one of your finer endeavors, Mike.
I still say that if 19 "cave-dwellers" figured out a way to temporarily suspend Newton's Second and Third Laws of physics, we've got a lot bigger problems than anyone is letting on. I mean...these guys figured out how to drop Building 7 into its own footprint at free-fall speed using nothing more than an office fire...AND melting the steel of the Twin Towers using just jet fuel. Too bad all that we have left of them is their passports.
www.ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html
Obviously we should be using passports to build our skyscrapers, body armor, cars, planes ... those things are indestructable!
lol
That was funny enough to fire the starting gun on the weekend libations.
If you need to see the demolition with your own eyes:
- go to the Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth web site (linked by Killtruck)
- go to the Evidence page
- download the mpeg "PBS Footage of WTC1 Demolition"
- watch it in slow motion
- ask yourself questions like:
Why is the right side of the building blowing outward in a wave that moving downward as fast as the falling debris (freefall)?
Why is the corner of the building blowing outward - but at a different level and rate than the right side?
How could there then be a symmetrical 'pancake' effect?
If compressed air is supposed to be responsible for the blowing out (including a 600 ton chunk of debris that lodged in an adjacent building) but the air escapes when the side blew out - what is making the corner blow out?
What are those small explosions that precede the downward wave?
If the squib explosions are really just more compressed air and dust - shouldn't dusty air continue to be vented out until progressive "pancaking" reaches that point?
For more spirit punishment search online for footage of the Pentagon just after it was 'hit' and ask:
- what happened to the wings and engines?
- why is there no corresponding damage to the face of the Pentagon?
The plane that hit the Pentagon didn't go in level through the side. It hit while turning--a wing was dipped towards the ground and most of it went into the roof.
I'd be more inclined to believe a remote-controlled plane hit the building rather than the "there was no plane" conspiracy line of bs.
I didn't make the claim there was no plane.
There was a plane that flew towards the Pentagon. There are witnesses of it, including police officers.
However eye witness accounts of the plane's path do not match with the official government version.
This explains it well - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o
- why did the FBI confiscate all the video recordings and only release a handful of frames?
indeed, it would be quite easy to shut us up with video of that plane all those cameras not one frame
- why did the FBI confiscate all the video recordings and only release a handful of frames?
um..because they're covering something up?
To me, it doesn't matter who did it - follow the money as to who took advantage of it (and to them, it also doesn't matter who did it). As in, "never let a crisis go to waste" take advantage. It's not even partisan - both parties have our little rendition, the new taking of our civil rights away, gitmo and so on, the patriot act, NDAA -
Does it really matter how the event transpired? It was small in the scheme of things, but wow, look at the results it allowed to happen. A whole new very expensive bureaucracy full of new opportunities for crony capitalism, with surveillance power granted so that this outfit now has bribe information on all those with political power...All that for a number of deaths an monetary loss in a one time event that is barely 1/10th of those killed in automobile crashes annually?
If I have cancer, or some fatal disease, I don't really care how it was created - I care how to cure it, or avoid catching it in the first place.
If you know who was ready to take advantage of an event, or who was the winner coming out, the search for who created it becomes easier.
Even if it is possible (and easy) to take down a low safety factor skin over steel building into its own footprint with a mere fire and hammer effect - and no laws of physics need to be violated to do that. Doesn't matter to me. I've seen it happen without the other crap, shit happens. What's interesting about this time was who profited from it.
not to mention all the peculiar trading that went on before 911. it would be really easy to figure out who had the ability to see the future and made huge bets accordingly.... but for some reason, that investigation quietly died. most likely the trail led right to our "closest ally and only democracy in the middle east"....
Secret Weapon...How economic terrorism brought down the U.S. stock market and why it can happen again
by: Kevin Freeman
Good Lord. You don't know how wrong you are. It should matter! It should matter more than anything else!
YES!!!!! Who did it is the most important issue in the recent history of the USA .... because WHO did it provides us with the answer to the worlds problems.
Hey,
If I were Tyler and I needed eyeballs, I'd bring up these stories too. Don't knock the man for making a buck.
...and hey to you, fuckface. The NYTimes brought this, not ZH. Plus, ZH eyeball count is growing ... almost too much from my personal perspective. Too many idiots and trolls are gathering here.
Actually, Tyler chooses what to put on this blog and not and he brought in Max Krieger's comments. The scoreboard is the number of people who comment and Tyler knows which stories get comments.
Like your job over at CIA? You and Chappy. Read about your new program.
Really, this is the fun thread of the week.
The trolls are paid.
PONZI WARS
Junkbait.
"Now here is a very telling clip to watch from that creep Joe Scarborough,"
Poor old Joe Scarborough hasn't been the same since his aide/office worker Lori Klausutis turned up dead in his Florida district Congressional office in August of 2001
www.wanttoknow.info
"for those who want to know"
started me on a journey of discovery a long time ago.. never looked back since
Thanks for the link. Wife keeps telling me I need to control my mind and I see they have a section on that.
La noche oscura del alma, for a country and a generation, or two.
Since when does having heart problems equate to decent shape?
You can't eat tin-foil.
Saudi involvement? Um, whatever. Yawn. Smart people figured out years ago that 9/11 couldn't have happened without inside help, and the "official story" was a conspiracy theory tailored especially for morons, or people incapable of questioning their assumptions or thinking logically. Cui bono?
Yeah, more scapegoats for the history books...Someday, in some "University" in this country, some dipshit Prof and his lemmings will be discussing the 9/11 report and the alternate story of Saudi involvement...Leaving out the real culprits, our government.
...and mosad
Let's go back to OKC fed building. A truck bomb parked a couple of hundred feet from the building blew half of it away. Essentially same bomb parked under one of the towers barely gives it a scratch. OU in Norman records two distinct seismic events seconds apart at or near the location. All federal judges and senior officials took the day off. I remember listening to Chuck Harder back in the day during the investigation and trial. Once again there were many inconsistencies in the case that were never admitted to and/or addressed by the gov. This shit has been going on for a long time!
The truck bomb "barely gave it a scratch"? Jesus, it made a hole several stories deep in the World trade center basement and was only contained that much because there was so much steel and concrete there. Seveal people were killed and over 1000 injured. Were you even alive in the early 90's when that happened? And as for Oklahoma City having the bomb outside the building INCREASED the damage. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, unfortunately here at ZH there are far too many people who want to make up their own facts.
I regret the use of the term "scratch" to describe the damage and loss of life. However, relative to the structural damage done to Murray building, structurally it was minimal.
"Having the bomb outside *increased* the danage"? In what alternate universe do those physics apply? Is that why WTC 7 fell? 'Cause the buildings next door had been hit by planes, and the proximity 'increased the damage'??
There's a former Air Force General named Benton Partin who spent his career as a bomb-damage assesor who would argue that, Bankster. *I* wouldn't know - I'm just a hard-workin' pimp - but I tend to listen to guys who've got expertise in that area, are identified in print as "experts", and then 1) publicly announced his findings which were 2) widely ignored by the MSM but are 3) still available all over the web. (with pictures!) My favorite part of Partin's report was when he discussed how main structural support columns farthest away from the truck blast had significantly more damage to them than columns close to the truck. As if those columns had C4 strapped to 'em or something. Odd, that, innit? Not a lot of retired military general officers will put their names (and pensions) on the line by *publicly* calling the chain of command fucking liars, but Partin did. You suppose a guy like that was just "making up his own facts"?
Matrix bitches.
This article will get us to 500+ comments...
Here we go.
At least. But you know that it shouldn't.
Jeeezzz.... It where just 3 buildings.... Can't they just drop it? It starts to sound like jewish auswitz bullshit....
I think it's all related to the same group of people, too.
I wouldn't be surpised. They sure like to play victim and nag about like forever....
And for those 3 buildings.... There's a nice waterfall fountain kind of thing in the ground over there. Look at it like New York flip over.
They hate us for our freedoms.
Some of us just have a difference of opinion as to who comprise the "they".
toxic8, you are not alone on that journey. No, you can't look back either. No matter how much you want to or how hard you try.
Cui bono precisely, Buckaroo Bonzai.
Re They hate us for our freedoms
They hate us for our Freedom Fries (and 'Big Gulp' colas) - there you go, fixed it.
Phuck you Krieger. The Sauds....that's maniacally laughable. Another trail to nowhere. Those in the "know" realize you are full of crap and understand that this operation was planned, implemented and conducted among the most criminal rogue nations on this planet...that would be the USA, Israel, France and England.
The Sauds where minor players in this, they probably knew though
....the jet fuel was distilled from their oil??? So, without this key element the planes never would have flown and I would not be subject to a frisking every time I go to the airport.
It was the Israelis who were behind 911. 911 was a 'false flag' event. Israel specializes in these type of false flag events. Look up the attack on the USS Liberty and the Lavon Affair. 911 has Jew fingerprints all over it.
The fact that the Saudi's are being fingered in the MSM is to me an indication that International Jewry is getting worried that more and more people are getting wise to them.
Shit for brains there is no way in hell Israel would hit the WTC even for false flag. I can give you a 100% guarantee on that one. I'm seeing pattern, when the "Jew haters" show up here.
The fact you are getting downvoted tells me there are quite a few new ZH'ers on here that still don't get the "big picture" yet...
Tells me that you are blind and you don't see the obvious before your eyes. Or maybe you're one of them.
So... What percentage of the 9/11 dead were Jewish?
Why? What percentage were skinny?
Skinny people aren't the ones running all the banks and media outlets in the world last time I checked.
A Q for a Q:
How many have got record bonuses since?
How many are still registered to vote in 3 states?
Higher than their percentage representation in the overall population. You're point being?
Ever notice how the loser Jew haters come out of the wood work when talking about 9/11..just a pathetic group who needs to scapegoat their own shortfalls
this crap is beneath zerohedge and keiger has just jumped the shark..I care not what this moron thinks from here on.
+1 there is absolutely no reason to take Krieger seriously from now on.
There never was. I always had the impression he was one of those 24-year olds Michael Lewis mentions in another ZH article today.
I don't think most people on here are anti-semitic, by any means.
We aren't a fan of Zionists. Huge difference...
Most people can't tell the difference.
Maybe this analogy will help them: opposing the KKK doesn't mean you hate white people.
Well said, Max.
I just friended the first Max I found on Facebook.
yeah...maybe you should go play in your own backyard, and tell us how the hate is translated towards palestinians. Amazing how the "truth" can be considered to be hateful or anti-semitic....while the israelis continued to butcher, steal, destroy and treat like animals the palestinian people. Please define hate in your own words. People are seeking the truth. If you can't live with that....move on.
Silverstein Makes a Huge
Profit off of the 9/11 Attacks
Six months before the 9/11 attacks the World Trade Center was "privatized" by being leased to a private sector developer. The lease was purchased by the Silverstein Group for $3.2 billion. "This is a dream come true," Larry Silverstein said. "We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights."
From an economic standpoint, the trade center -- subsidized since its inception -- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace. [BusinessWeek]How could Silverstein Group have been ignorant of this?
A federal jury on Monday ruled that the assault on the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center was in fact two occurrences for insurance purposes. The finding in U.S. District Court in Manhattan means leaseholder Larry Silverstein may collect up to $4.6 billion, according to reports. [Forbes.com 12/06/04]
The result of court ruling: Silverstein makes a huge profit off of the 9/11 attacks.
He sure "pulled" that off
That was a typo ... he actually said razing it.
'I am 100% convinced that it wasn’t 19 cave dwelling Al Qaeda members who hate us for our “freedoms.” I can also tell you that two planes didn’t take down three buildings.'
So... eleven years later you want a final answer?
Lord. HoS is now an enemy and not a 'partner in the region'. Noted. Go after Bahrain and Qatar while you're at it...
Questioning 911 is unpatriotic. So says Mike Moore, Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, etc etc etc.
they're right on alot of things but throwing Apple Pie and the Stars & Stripes in peoples faces is not a wise or proper response to questioning minds
I can't believe I'm getting downvoted for repeating nearly verbatim to what each of them has said.
Question Everything, especially from "authority figures" (ie govt)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo-QIY7ys-k (George Carlin 5 min video)
Once you understand what happened to JFK & RFK, then you understand your govt can and will do ANYTHING to keep the status quo (keeping them in power [grasshoppers] and keeping you as the ants).
Question Everything until the Truth comes out. Until then, we live in a cesspool of rotten corruption with theives and liars running the system.
Really would like to know who killed JFK and then I'll listen to this, hmmm, theory, if you want to call it that!
Another reason to beef up my garden this year. Oil = Food
This event is the catalyst for most people on the planet...
to ask...
What in the Fuck is going on in Life?
wtf?
The importance of this event is so huge...so massive - that if anyone (and a 100% someone 'out there' that indeed knows the truth about this event) was to ever reveal the truth about this - it being an inside job...
It than blows the doors off of anything and everything we know about life and what we have been taught.
THE TRUTH about 9/11 is bigger than the event itself - because its a connection to the mystery of LIFE.
It leads to questionsng EVERYTHING in our existence on what we've been told.
Thats how fucked up it is.
Its not that you think strange things are happenning in this world, but rather, strange things ARE happening more than you think and imagine.
Bravo. I have seen people squirm when they think about such "alternate" realities. They don't want to think about this at all.
The thing is, we've been fed so much bullshit since 9/11 even if someone did come forward and tell everyone exactly what took place and who did it and why and had hard evidence to back it all up and wrapped it up in a neat little bow, the majority of Americans would either ignore it completely or not believe it. At this point, how do you even separate fact from fiction? Reality is all fiction, it is all a convenient lie. Colors are a lie, sounds are a lie. What we perceive versus what really is are very different things. So this little 9/11 lie, in the grand scheme of universal lies, well, it is nothing. I'd still like to know who really did it, though.
there was this women in the middle east many years ago. she heard the word of god and gave virgin birth to a blond blue-eyed baby boy who was, at that point the son of god. want to question that and stay alive???
You just did, bitch.
"I sure as hell want to know and I am pretty sure everyone else in America and world wants to know since this event is what led to a massive crackdown on civil liberties and wars all across the world."
I wouldn't count on it. The last 4 years should have taught you that pitiful few want to know the truth about how the world really works.
Most Americans would rather drink beer, eat Doritos, and watch their favorite team.
I have explained WTC7, no-plane Pentagon, insurance purchased that covers acts of terrorism a few months prior, paper passports in the rubble, thermite, etc, to the following groups of people and here are, in general, their reactions:
A- Young people (under 24): shocked, curious, unmotivated to do their own research
B- 35 to 55 years old: completely apathetic
C- 55+: disbelief, their brain shuts down, total cognitive freeze, agitation and frustration, cannot comprehend, does not compute, please change subject...
I have given up trying to convince the 55+ group. For the rest, I try when I can.
Of course 2 planes didn't take down 3 buildings.....2 planes didn't even take down TWO buildings.
It was ALL controlled demo, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. And once you get that, you understand that damn near everything out of the govt mouth has been a lie for years and years.
The only question now is: WTF is anyone gonna do about it ?
No, actually it doesnt take a rocket scientist as he would know little about this type of force. A civil engineer, however, could describe to you in intricate detail exactly the forces that caused the collapse of both buildings. Believe it or not, but more than one engineering group performed computer simulations not only on each aircraft impact, but also on the collapse of each building. If the simulation data was not rock solid, I am pretty sure you would hear more on this...
Also, it equally does not take a rocket scientist to see why they didnt want to persue the Saudi government. Their relationship with the US in reference to energy polciy is critical to our economy. Pissing off the Iranians are one thing. Pissing off the saudi royal family would be a completely different level of global escalation. At least until their known oil reserves run out...
In short, never blame conspiracy where incompentency can be applied. Yes, the government used the opportunity to do a power grab afterwards, but that is to be expected from a bunch of politicians.
Tgatliff, I wish I could vote up your post more than once. Besides, everyone knows that the only thing that could possibly melt structural steel comes out of Rosie Odonell's anus, which has been controlled remotely by zionests since they had her abducted by aliens in 1967.
You're exactly right. It doesn't even take 8th grade physics to understand it...which is why over 1600 independent civil engineers, physicists, architects and more than 14,000 other professionals are coming forward to demand a new investigation into 9/11. You can find them at www.ae911truth.org, where they outline the evidence for controlled demolition.
And no, you wouldn't have heard about it if the simulation data was not rock solid. None of the "engineering groups" that performed the aircraft study would release their data for verification. You can find more on this at the site above, or just Youtube "Blueprint for Truth", which is an objective and scientific method approach to the evidence.
Incompetency is often the best cover.
How about photographic evidence of the actual floors sagging, which it also doesnt take an 8th grader to see that it would cause buckling in the main support columns? Would that do it for you??
http://www.debunking911.com/collapse.htm
Keep in mind that this is not the first time we have seen a building collapse on its own weight. It is a very well understood principle..
@Killtruck, "independent" or 'unemployed'? (jk BTW)
t, you seem to have received a lot of boos, but not so many responses. That's what I like to call a 'tell'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Q-bDwbkPY
I've read the NIST reports. It's just like BLS data: the answers are given in advance and the model parameters are adjusted to achieve the desired result. I've done plenty of simulation and modeling. It's easy to get the results you want, and it's super easy when you get to make up your own model and keep it secret so nobody can see all the ridiculous assumptions necessary to achieve the desired result. And, it will never be tested, so it's not like the model has to match reality. But I do think we should have a law that all the NIST folks who had anything to do with these reports should be permanently prohibited from practicing any form of engineering just for the sake of public safety.
The WTC7 report is especially ridiculous and contains virtually nothing in the way of facts once you take away the claims made based on a model that is not publicly available. That is to say: they have bought the veneer of legitimacy by framing it in the context of "physics" and "engineering," but the reality is that the report is a PR sales job, a con.
You can believe whatever you want, but for your sake, I hope you are actually getting paid to post this stuff because if you truly believe what you've been writing here, it's too late for you.
"At least they didn’t use a hot tub this time."
Good Matt Simmons reference.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=735_1281453104
If you are like me, 9/11 is an open and shut case. You have got to be retarded, and I mean that word in the most derogatory manner, if you believe the official story. Yet amongst my friends and family, I am a weirdo for not believing the official story. I'm so tired of living in idiocracy-esque world. I'm convinced, the media has us by the balls forever.
Very hard to have a matter-of-fact discussion on this topic, no less a decade later. For future historians it'll be a bitch, no doubt.
History will slaughter the United States.
Mission Accomplished, Boomers!
after 40 or 50 years of 'journalism' that camera has become very good at showing you what they want you to see on (even in flat panel days) is a relatively small screen, view of what your eyes can really take in. remember - american television exist for ONE THING! to make you buy the products advertised. 'news' exists to sell you things you don't need with money you don't have. tv has become our reality. believe it, or suffer.
blahblahblah
blahblahblahblah
My wife says the same thing all the time.
well, if she has movies of prez0 in college that show that he was a radical they will kill her, but NOT in a hot tub! Hahaha!
why didn't breitbart just release the fuking videos, mikey? not geed enuf for BUSINESS? will his children carry on this important work? will mikey? will the videos now still be released at the best time? imagine! a black college student being RADICAL!looks like abt 300-350,000 men die each year about that age btw; some of them, perhaps, even die of natural causes, like anyWinehouse! L0L!!!
And a very Happy Friday to you too Sir!
L0L!!!
tgiBigLieFriday, G-F!
same2U!
There is always more to things than meet the eye. The interesting thing to me is that most people aren't more interested in the truth. But that is the attitude of Sheeple. Don't bother me with facts. Let me live in this lie. It is comfortable.
So what lie do you live in, knowing that it is a lie, but convincing yourself otherwise?
I always left scratching my head on comments like the above. The irony is that in the process of you "wanting" to know the truth, you actually excude the facts themselves. Meaning, if you wanted to know the truth, then you would be open to the idea that it wasnt some giant conspiracy. You are not, however...
How about this... Ga Tech in Atlanta also performed simulations on the impact data they had, and it is pretty much an "open and shut" case. Are grad students working on their PHD at Ga Tech in on that giant conspiracy as well, or are they also just "sheeple"?
COMPUTER SIMULATION OF IMPACT AND COLLAPSE OF NEW YORK WORLD TRADE CENTER NORTH TOWER ON SEPTEMBER 11
http://hsrlab.gatech.edu/AUTODYN/papers/paper142.pdf
Not sure that this guy is saying anything about controlled demo like the other loons.
if "this guy" = immanent collapse, he is talking about FACTS!
kreiger: Look, I will be the first to say I have no idea what really happened on that day
but we do have these facts:
pawky remark
yellow card for slewie, BiCheZ!
That paper is not trying to prove or disprove anything apparently...
"CONCLUSIONS
Lacking the precise structural details and material data of the building, the
objective of this simulation is not to identify the exact causes that resulted in the
final collapse of the WTC North Tower. Under the assumptions made regarding the
impact conditions and the location and extent of the fire damage, our objective is to
provide a scientifically substantiated plausible scenario for the impact and collapse
event of the North Tower.
The simulation shows that the initial impact causes extensive damage to the
perimeter columns, the floors, and the central core. After further weakening of the
structures by the jet fuel fire, the North Tower finally collapsed. The North Tower
is shown to be unlikely to collapse without the local strength reduction resulting
from the severe fire."
I couldn't get to the paper for some reason, but from the conclusions you posted they admit that they are making assumptions about: 1) the structural details, 2) material data, 3) impact location, and 4) fire damage and distribution.
They then go on to state that their goal is to create a collapse in their model. Given all the assumed parameters, it is hardly a surprise that they could find a set that resulted in collapse. To say that such an endeavor can be considered "scientifically plausible" is intellectually dishonest, because such a model can never be validated. This is contrasted with controlled demolition models, which are tested over and over again and can be validated. This lack of model "testability" means it is not a scientific model, it is merely a story where the assumptions are adjusted to reach the desired outcome.
When I first started doing simulations in the late '80s, it struck me that there a large number of ways of being wrong, and only one way of being right. Most models of any complexity have huge variations in sensitivity to certain parameters, and by making small changes in these parameters you can get nearly any result you want. So I tend to look at these models that "predict" collapse as fiddling with parameters until you get what you want. These types of models are most definitely not scientific, despite all the mathematical obfuscation.
It says that the fire caused the collapse and if there was no fire, it wouldn't have collapsed. OK.
Interesting paper, published by the company that sells the program, Century Dynamics, now owned by ANSYS, Inc. "As is the case for many of the leading companies in today’s CAE market, Century
Dynamics’ history can be traced to the defense and nuclear industries. During the 1950s and 1960s, finite difference physicists in the United States developed the core theories for what would later be the foundation of explicit dynamics software programs. The first of these explicit dynamics programs were known as “hydrocodes,” technology then used exclusively at government laboratories, such as Lawrence Livermore and Los Alamos, to model events of interest to the defense community." http://www.idac.co.uk/enews/archive/Sept/CenturyDynamics.pdf
tgatliff,
Are you a Jew?
Matters
Doesn't matter
Gravity,
are you 9.81m/s squared?
Slewie,
are you a pi-rat?
Pope,
do you wear a funny hat?
Mike
Too bad about your friend. Great Godwin's Law quote.
7againstThebes,
Does it matter?
bahhhh, bahhhhh, bahhhhh. "I can't make up my mind until I see the commercial" baaahhhhhhhhhhh, bahhhhhhhhhh
I say
is an excellent question at this moment in time, worthy of a weekend thread all to itself!
The first crack in the facade occured when GW said "they hate us because of our freedom." What a crock!
Bush was essentially just a figurehead... (and an empty head, as well).
The terrorists attacked us for our support of Israel.
How much does it cost to take all of the asbestos out of an ancient skyscraper? "it is always about the money, mon ami" H.Poirot
Thanks for reminding. We don't have that freedom any more so they don't hate us. Now we hate them because they have that freedom.
No doubt this will hit 500 comments.
Andrew Breitbart conspiracy theories are starting and no one is even putting him in the same breath as Vincent Foster but they soon will. This one will get a lot of time.
As for WTC 7, you know what, if it was done today on a quiet day and a building collapsed for no reason, I'd see the conspiracy theory points but when the two largest buildings in the world collapse in an area where the land below has been gutted by subways and underline mazes, it's different.
Mike Krieger is allowed to doubt what happened that day. Sometimes people overacheive and accomplish more than they wanted to. Some oil people hit oil and others don't.
And by the way Mike, those "cave dwellers" never lived in a cave, but they did go to flight school. If you need to dumb them down because you think Muslims are all cave dwellers who are incapable of learning and accomplishing anything, then yes, you can easily shift your blame to Mossad/CIA/whoever.
Funny.
I know 3 girls whose healthy, fit, husbands died suddenly between the ages of 37-41.Heart attack in sleep, brain bleed, and arotic tear. Sad fact of life, you can't hedge all the risk out of living.
I will leave the silly conspiracy theorise of Obama's birth certificate and Breitbart's death to people with far more time on their hands than i.
I agree completely with all your other opinions.
I do actually believe that the level of Saudi's involvement in 9/11 has never and will never be fully known. I think things like, the 6 chartered flights with 142 people, mostly Saudi Arabian nationals, departed from the US between September 14 - 24 and the flight that departed on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Osama Bin Ladin, have never been fully explained.
Former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke has testified that he approved these flights, stating that "it was a conscious decision with complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the FBI and the White House." Testimony of Richard Clarke, Former Counterterrorism Chief, National Security Council, before The Senate Judiciary Committee, September 3, 2003.
Why these particular people had to get out of the US so quickly has never been explained.
I think there was a quid pro quo arranged with Saudi after 9/11, that the US wouldn't fully investigate the Saudi role in 9/11 in exchange for Saudi getting on board with the US fight against terrorism/ Clearly, above all the US needs Saudi crude, and Saudi to be a "stable mid-east" partner.
very diplomatic
if you insinuate that kreiger can't think straight, you'll get junked, lizzie!
thank you for the clean & jerk, tho, tyler!
blahblahfukingblah!
The Saudi connection to 9/11 has always been a question mark to me.
The rest of it.....well suffice to say mostly crazy talk. Not interested.
Getting junked is a badge of honor.
i went to correct from the french ('lizzie') [sry]
once the propaganda is scripted and the media fed the "spokespersons", then all we are left with, imo, is an exercise in mass psychology
the first comment sums up what kreiger and tyler are doing: clickbait
no biggie! it's only zeroHedge... where, apparently, "mass psychology" = cliX!
Because you, like most Americans, think of the Saudis as a monolithic group with a single set of interests (selling oil to Americans to amass wealth).
i think she's canadian
try putting it to her in terms of maple syrup and see if she gets it
other than thay, it is probably just not worth even trying
eh?
Regarding Saudi Arabia and Wahhabism, does the word Donmeh mean anything to you?
House of Saud and Zionism are much closer than many might imagine...
Next you'll tell me that Israel has never hired and trained Arabs/Palestinians/Muslims to be used as needed including as patsies. They(Israelis/jewish terrorists) are also not above dressing as Arabs while doing their own dirty work...see the bombing of the King David Hotel in the 1940s by the Irgun.
Meanwhile back at the ranch...how about Urban Moving Systems and it's employees who were also allowed to leave the country.
Crazy talk?
Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1
High-Fivers and Art Student Spies:
What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/03/07/what-did-israel-know-in-advance-o...
How did an 'expert'(Jerome Hauer of Kroll INC, and known neocon) on network TV September 11, 2001, while the smoke was still rising, identify the perp as bin Laden before any investigation?
The framework of the official story(myth) was planted in the minds of the American public that very morning...no investigations needed. Everything after that was manipulated to fit that story up to and including destruction of the evidence. You want to say I'm talking crazy, I don't give a damn...and I've never believed what we were being told from day one...long before any '9/11 truth movement' came along.
The 9-11 Solution -How the myth was sold-http://youtu.be/7GDa-L4hHHo
Pre-planted explosives, pre-planted witnesses, pre-planted experts, pre-planted mythshttp://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2950
Ironically the OP at that last link was banned from wtcdemolition.com...
I'd like to add that those Americans who think the subject of 9/11/2001 and what really happened is just 'clickbait' are fucking idiots. Look what it's done to our country not to mention innocents on the other side of the world who have been killed on the basis of lies.
War on terror my ass.
maybe lizzy will find your stuff helpful for her personal questions, to which she alluded
the fact that 911 isn't "clickbait" does not mean this article isn't "clickbait"
or do you think we all equate a kreiger piece about 911 with 911 itself?
some of us are no longer concerned with 911:thePuzzle so much as we are with seeing 911 as a piece of a "longer-time" picture
4 some, 911 is not ourBigLie; it is part of ourBigLie
as such, the minutia of the event and its various aspects are no longer as important as seeing the larger, longer scenario
as in the microcosm, the bigger, longer picture can take different hues, also, depending on which "elements" are emphasized
also where we choose to begin, in leading up to "now" and why
even tho i could easily choose a beginning and other events and show you a picture which would be quite new to you, as a whole, without stressing minutia of the 911 events, themselves, considering it would be coming from a fuking idiot, your immediate defense would be that you knew it, all along! which you probably do, at some level, but it does not seem to me you have very clear view of the actual forest; you have, however, studied nearly every leaf on certain trees!
certain approaches are more practical than others for undertanding 911 in the "scheme of things" and there are probably several thousand sets of "emphases" which could be arranged upon the array of "events" to tell a tale or two
once you begin to develop a more compelling macrocosmic story w/ 911 as a part, perhaps you will cease studying the birds nests, bugs, and bark of a few particular trees
at that level, an "investigation" might actually be totally contra-indicated since the returns to more clarity in the larger picture might be diminished by such a narrow, 'decade-old' in some senses, focus
theoretically, if you need to understand, say, more near-time aspects of the longer picture, then from an intelligence P0V, it might be a mis-use of resources to neglect that for a less propitious focus on non-critical minutia
that said, a nickel is a nickel and a dime is a dime in the minutia, as well
and every penny counts!
Ok fine...I hear you on the subject of 9/11 as a whole vs. this article on 9/11 as clickbait. As for the longer scenario, that's why I knew the morning of that we were being lied to. When you say longer scenario do you mean decades, centuries, or millenia? I once thought that 9/11 could be a good focus point to start unraveling deceptions that have stretched for millenia. I now think I was wrong. The macrocosmic reality is far different from what most believe it to be...especially in the geopolitical world.
I do know that in the here and now as a result of 9/11("everything changed") we have the Patriot Acts, Department of Homeland Security, the TSA, NDAA, two overt wars(3? - Libya) and ?? covert wars, millions of innocents dead, amongst other outrages I'm forgetting right now. The outrages continue and are usually based on what I think are the lie(s) of 9/11...meaning in my mind that it's not a subject we can 'just move on' from or forget about, as it continues to impact on a worldwide basis.
I don't think there has yet been a proper investigation. What we've had has been a whitewash to protect the official theory.
Personally I think there were more than a few state sponsored entities/agencies involved...off the top of my head some of them would be US, British, Saud, Pakistani, Israeli...and probably more. I was once told that supposedly individual state sponsored intelligence agencies were actually collectively the international bankster's private mercenaries. I'm really seeing no reason to doubt that. For a taste of that see here: Inside the Global Banking Intelligence Complex, BCCI Operations
Yes you are right I have studied a lot of leaves on certain trees...but along the way I was also studying on the entire forest, prior to and after 9/11.
Forgive me for implying that you're a fucking idiot.
here we begin to see "something" coming in at 2 which may help us understand 4-7 along with the fact that there have been exceedingly few arrests and convictions for "some reason"
this "octave" of events spans 3 presidencies and anyone who rules out the prez just prior to clinton may be making a mistake, even if we "start" in '93
again, this is one event-chain, now in its 20th year, too! and of course, everybody already knows this, too, but some want to re-examine 911, now a decade old...
now we could start with bushI taking over intel, and cheney's years of 'service' or meuller, or ronnie losing some capacity, or iran/contra, or even the iranian embassy events in '79, or go back to rocky&kissinger&nixon and their dance w/ mao, or the koumintang gold bond receipts, or the FED, or jfk/rfk/mlk/hoover, or even edgahHoovah, himself, who came to POWER around the "teapotDome" scandal of the 20's where banksters and theNavy and the oil peeps got caught "hijacking the goobermint" and were actually brought to justice, m/l; but edgah was also "placed"
somehow, our "pluralism" & "checks and balances" broke down
this is a story of police-state tyranny, fiat-fascism, wealth transfer, enormous "tooBig" business combine and interlocking controls, and the bankrupting of america via selective "Constitutionality"
the people who "did" 911 were very very good at what they do! tens of millions of people are highly emotionally involved in "figuring out what happened" over a decade later...
Lizzy,
How much does Hasbara pay you per post?
you know the story about the two-dollar whore?
it's her first day (night) at work and late the next morning, she's checkin in w/ her homie gfs...
>how did you do, honey?
:: great! i made $8.25!
>L0L!!! who gave you the quarter?
:: everybody!
i've locked horns w/ lizzy a few times, myself, 7_hebes, i'll tell you!
i think most of us will get the "payoff" from your comment, now!
trollCity, or what, BiCheZ?
WTC 7 fell at near free-fall speed. That means that there had to be near zero resistance the entire time.
Also, the building was oddly framed around an existing Con-Ed electric plant. The fact that it fell symmetrically in its own footprint with no resistance despite being built in non-symmetrical manner is completely inexplicable for a non-controlled collapse.
The real reason I am writing this piece today is because of a very, very important article from the NY Times...
Nevermind, on second thought you lost me right there.
If anyone would like to know how IT was done,
check out the video by Dimitri Khalezov.
instant powdered buildings. it all makes sense... that is how the buildings were designed to be demolished... of course that information, for some reason, has been erased....
The only thing I got to add is NO SHIT SHIRLOCK! You were there, and it took you 11 years to figure this out? People will not wake up, they rather delude themselves. Whether it's sept 11, gulf of tonkin, fractional reserve banking or whatever. At this point we totally get what we deserve, because my entire family is retarded and I'm sure yours is too. Good luck!
No shit is right. The cia/fbi, nsa, military industrial bankster, cointelpro monkeys, who think nothing of killing people in cold blood, have been skullfucking america for generations.
Of my large family of brilliant people, I'm the only one that's awake (thanks purple barrel). They all think I'm crazy, but all I want to do is save them from what seems an obviously dangerous next several years. Lead a horse to water and all that.
Luck is not going to be enough. I've been stacking the odds in my favor.
Oh, and fuck off and die to all the fudgepacking prick spooks that monitor ZH. You will gwt what you richly deserve.
Look. If somone beleives or promotes the OFFICIAL 911 STORY, they are either a LIAR or a RETARD.
Here is an excellent video
9/11 is the LitmusTest, it is word form of an article by the profound Les Visible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVY-iQDO8pg
Les Visible, aka "the dog poet" writes a few of the best metaphysical blogs on the net. Smoking Mirrors, Petri Dish, and Visible Origami. not to be missed....
"It is not necessary to know the truth. It is only necessary to know the extent of the lies . . ." Les Visible
I despair of ever knowing the truth about 9/11. We DO know the government lied extensively, but it might have just been a scramble to CYA. There's a whole ton of weird shit - the dancing Israelis, WTC 7, the whole thing. But there's so much information, disinformation, misinformation, intentional lies, accidental lies, and bullshit clouding that day that you'd have to be God to sort it all out.
While I understand what you're saying, I don't completely agree. I think that much of what we see that is immoral, destructive, and so on is fully understandable by the majority of people. I'm no economist, but I understand the role that, say, QE plays in commodity prices. I don't think the story of 911 is all that different.
One does not need the whole truth to see that there is no rational explanation for the manner in which WTC 7 collapsed, nor will one ever be offered.
And as soon as you find one valid premise from which to start, many of the rest fall into place, thanks to Occam's Razor.
The truth is usually pretty simple. Lies are complex.
There is enough available information to arrive a a reasonable answer. It's not trigonometry, it's just simple addition and subtraction.
Be fearless. Do the math. Trust your instinct.
"Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you mad"
Aldus Huxley
Some say Andy was killed to eclipse this 9/11 revelation in yesterdays news cycle. A twofer.
Oh, and while we're on conspiracy it is obvious to me that the GOP is trying to lose to Obama because he has handled the cover-ups like a champ!
I first realized the GOP was trying to throw the election when they pushed Santorum, Romney, Gingrich, Bachmann, Cain, and Satan himself ahead of Ron Paul.
...but I thought Gingrich was Satan? You know..the great deceiver?
Look no further than the asshole that said "Pull It". His bunch of co-horts - including some of the most elete american leadership were the ones. They were definately not Arabs!
Rest up this weekend everyone. I think things are about to get crazy.
Let's make it happen, May Day 2012 - http://pastebin.com/iTx8RA2P
I'll pass on the communism day.. thanks