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Niall Ferguson: "Greece Is The Symptom Not The Cause"
In a brief clip from a lengthier discussion between historian Niall Ferguson and ex-Greek PM George Papandreou at this week's Zeitgeist conference, the effusive Englishman lays out perfectly what many are missing with regard to Europe: "Greece is not the problem - it is a symptom of a much more profound malaise that affects the entire monetary union." - just as Lehman Brothers was not the 'cause' of the US's problems. The wasted energy spent moralizing about the 'work habits' of Mediterranean citizens as being the problem is incorrect as this is a European-wide problem - a systemic crisis of European banking and public finance. Papandreou pipes in by noting, in typical toe-the-line manner, that Germany must swerve (in the game of chicken) or there is a major danger of disintegration because "there will be contagion".
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Business, like nature, is self regulating (no academics, economists or politicians required)
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Ah, another US citizen who might have watched too many BBC wild life documentaries.
Nature is not self regulating. Calling it such is just an anthropomorphic projection.
AnAnonymous - so if nature isn't self-regulating, where is natures central command (Govt) structure precisely?
Nowhere.
Nature does not regulate. It simply is. Regulation, order, and the rest are simplifications to try and comprehend nature.
Nature does regulate, through the ebb and flow of resources (the food chain). But it self-regulates in that individuals make their own daily decisions of their own free will
nature cannot be improved by amassing (monopolising) decisions into a centralised core structure that enriches a handful of greedy parasites by stealing from the many productive individuals (Govt)
So there is no Cent Comm or Politburo in nature. Society seems to require govt in order to counteract coercion that infests the state of nature. Fair enough.
However I get the feeling AA that you believe in some maximalist, super-coercive species of govt. to more than just solve the "state of nature" problem or am I misrepresenting you?
Hierarchy. Most animals live in groups which have strict "pecking orders" of dominant and submissive members whose role in the group is determined by their status. Those who do not live in groups are usually top of the foodchain critters like sharks who are dominant due to their place in the foodchain.Violence and physical force are the foundation.
Which is why when empathy developed in pre-humans society began to protect the less physically abled from cruel leaders. That is when civilization began. Not when more neato stuff could be built and sold to enrich the manufacturers. Not when others learned how to enrich themselves even further by lending their enrichment to others to enrich themselves.
Debtandtaxes - can you find the "pecking order of dominant and submissive members" in a shoal of fish, a flock of birds, the migrating Wilderbeast, a herd of cows or sheep please?
I agree with your "status" view but that is only in select groups like Apes or prides of lions etc that decide to live in groups.
You mention individuals living "at the top of the food chain" but pigeons live in pairs, 2 consenting individuals. Pigoens like many animals (horses, cows etc) are passive animals and will take flight at any scare but highly successful (proliferate).
Nature has evolved many different strategies for success, most are passive, and not just the brutal biggest muscle babble we hear against the Rule of the Jungle argument
we humans did not "become civilised" we were like nature itself civilised from the outset. As individuals we are inbuilt with civility like animals (our brain is wired the same and hasn't changed, nor will it), it cannot be dispensed by some institution (as Govt promises while delivering murder and mahem in the name of democracy)
Govt is the ultimate thug ...society is naturally civil, it is Govt that destroys the peace and wrecks the economy (housing, banking, education, energy sector etc etc)
Reminds me of a quote from Thucydides something to the effect of
"The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."
You are right, one of the higher species where hierarchy clearly does manifest itself is the human species. Civilisation did arise from the prohibition on the initiation of force and fraud - and modern liberal society is the result of this.
The problem is the lack of clarity about this. It has permitted govt to far overstep its proper mark (which is solely the prevention of force and fraud) therefore leading to the abuses ZG is eloquent about. What we need is a focusing on the proper limits of govt - the use of coercion to counter coercion (assuming a conservation of coercion in the state of nature).
Btw there is no "regulation" in nature because there is no definitive equilibrium to regulate. AA is right about anthropomorphisation. Still Id like to know what it is he thinks we should all do since he seems to be an expert on what we shouldnt do.. :)
Hired to sanitize the Rothschild image. Not a recommendation in my book.
We should not entirely blame the victim but they were quite complicit and happy to dance whilst the music played. Social structure mechanisms were ill planned.
You first have to be educated in what it is you are actually doing before you can consider a wise choice of action. When you have limited, to non-existent knowledge about the consequences of accepting "free shit", pork-barrel enticements, it makes it a bit difficult to disregard their (politicians) feigned "benovelence". Social structure planning is never well executed, although the proponents of it can be.
Someone seemed to imply that people somewhere want a "United States of Europe." Arrest them. What are they crazy. They already have drones being built for them.
Greece is the diversion, while everyone else tries to sweep their own shit under the rug.
That is the best damn comment on this thread! Well done [ A Lunatic]. Greece is to Europe as China is to the UNITED STATES of out of control spending!
Someobody has to be pushed under the train.
Greece is not big enough to offuscate.
Something bigger has to be pushed.
Precisely - and the ultimate diversion is the UK, which has the most debt/gdp of any other nation - by an order of magnitude. The evil little Island of Britain strikes again
Last time I checked, UK debt/GDP was about 2/3. Care to give your figure/source?
Tyler, just as a humble FYI, Niall is Scottish. Just as a word of warning to all Americans and general foreigners, don't accuse Scotsmen of being English, it can result in getting a beer bottle smashed on your head. Particularly in Glasgow.
Just a helpful tip in case you ever run into a rampant Scot.
n.b. they generally don't have to be drunk to give you a Glasgow kiss. Look it up...
Scottish Terriers (several Terriers are from Scotland) are my favorite dogs!!!
I like Kelpies but rainy days and Sundays always get me down.
+1 from me. Just thinking that myself, littleguy.
A bit of a clue in the name, Niall Ferguson. (definitely not English, probably some Irish roots)
Though as an Englishman myself, I'd be more than happy to claim him.
I have to agree with Niall Ferguson. The real problem is that governments around the world are borrowing huge sums of money that they will never be able to repay. Greece might be the worst example of this, but the US, Japan and many European governments are doing exactly the same thing. Greece just hit the wall first. And since Greece sacrificed control of its currency when it joined the EMU, it is temporarily unable to avail itself of the traditional remedy for excess spending, which is to print like crazy.
There is plenty of blame to go around: the politicians who authorize the deficit spending, the people who elect the politicians and who demand social spending without worrying about who is eventually going to have to pay for it, and of course the bankers and financial system that makes loans to governments whose spending is clearly out of control.
greece is a tick turd on a gnat's ass - it is no where near the real problem. nor are the piigs. nor is the ecb nor is the fed - however complicit and evil those organizations are.
the real problem is brewing in the bowels of jpm.....europe is a sideshow - it is the magician's distraction....jpm is the grim front for the corrupt and terroristic us government built vote by vote by the american people. the cock of criminal currency has come home to roost.....
the end is nigh - i assure thee - the end is nigh....i would begin a vigil of jpm - its troubles will presage the mother of all calamities....
I get the very real sense that you actually know what you're talking about.
Just how many indiscretions could a banking institution rack up in 150 or so years anyhow...........?
I can think of some by the parents of these so-called wizz kids.
Yes, this is exactly the predicament we are currently facing. JPM has lit the fuse to the derivative time BALM with their disclosed 2.3 billion dollar loss. This loss is historic because up until this point they have always been able to cover their bets in the synthetic market.
you scare me by thinking the same as I do,,,
I agree that JPM represents a huge part of the evil but there are other collaberators here including BAC and GS not to mention the Fed. The Fed has known about JPMs position for several months, this is no surprise only the timing turns out to be inconvenient is all. The loss is likely to be 10s of billions, the bitch of it is I'm sure part or all of that position was sponsored by the Fed themselves, its a big consortium that manipulate the system constantly. Government now looks the other way legally.
Keep in mind that the American Banking system is a small percentage of our GDP when compared with European banks. Also, European banks tend to be bigger than their American counterparts, so Europe being a sideshow is a little ridiculous.
Personally, I believe all the big banks are insolvent and have been since 2008, its only been the printing of money that has kept things going. It is this situation that has led to more extreme gambling, bigger bets and more risk - a typical gambler trying to make back all their losses with larger bets. In the end, they will all fail, everyone of them. Not even the Fed can backstop these losses although they will try, all of the CBs will try desperately.
I don't see JPM or any of the banks making it through the end of the year before we have massive implosions like Spain is having now. It seems like things are ahead of schedule, so much so that they may have finally lost control and the markets are taking over directly. They knew this was coming but I don't think they wanted it before the elections, oh well.
I'm pretty sure we'll find ourselves in a massive war(s) around the same time the banking system collapses and then the financial system and then the monetary system. The wars are all set to escalate, everywhere from Iran to Yemen to Lebanon and maybe Syria as well. There's a wide selection to choose from and escalating to war is pretty easy thing to do, everyone loves war except the soldiers and the civilians caught up in it.
By the end of this year every nation will be looking to pass on the blame and divert attention to something else, they won't have a choice. Most likely we'll blame Europe while the rest of the world blames the us for the global financial meltdown. In fact, the whole financial sector and the Governments are to blame exclusively and yet the people suffer austerity - this is everywhere whether it has been formalized or not.
Greece is a proxy for what's coming to everywhere else, not just Europe but here as well. China can't escape the problems and will have no choice (they think) but to inflict much more control on the population, they are extremely concerned about the outcome of a meltdown and what it means to them. This is why they have been making the moves they've been making, increased gold/decreased debt holdings, shifting focus from exports to internal consumer growth, freeing up cash, etc.
I think JPM is the sideshow when you consider the full context of the events happening globally. We're talking wars where millions more people die for no good reason, entire classes of people wiped out, assets transfered to banks and governments, martial law, it goes on. JPM will be just one in a long list of debacles where greed and corruption ruled the day, although for a period of time it will probably be the biggest of all debacles (until Europe or the US or Japan finally collapses).
We're all fucked by the end of the year, living in a bankrupt world where paper money becomes a fuel source. Consider the one benefit, they've managed to keep Gold and Silver at discount pricing levels for at least a month now, shame on everyone that doesn't back up the truck (or hatchback) and load up on one of things that won't lose its value. Make sure to buy plenty of physical silver, JP Morgan loves it when the muppets buy physical silver!
When the shit hits the fan people like Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein will be looking to relocate and hiring a personal security force (unless Jamie and Lloyd just buy all of NYC and the NYPD). As I've said before, Goldman Sachs owns the world, JP Morgan owns everything in it, the Fed owns GS and JPM, and Rothschild owns the Fed.
In the end, I put my money on the 7 billion sheeple waking up before the slaughter! Remember, we just need to educate the 100th monkey!
Germans realize they cannot swerve. They can take a one time severe contraction now.
Or they can be slaves and pay tribute to the periphery forever
An american puritan descendent understands old fashioned lutherans better than the rest of europe
They will make the morally correct choice and accept the pain now
is Merkal really "saving the EU" or is she, as per all Govts, just bailing out her own bankrupt Bankers?
When she is going for public assets in Greece is that to help the EU or to secure bankers loans??
Same Germany as before but now instead of the Oberkommando being field marshals plotting to take over through wars of aggression it is a high command of banksters waging economic war. The demand from the core eurozone to the peripherial ClubMed nations to delve ever deeper into austerity no matter how bad it gets in spite of their service economies that cannot grow to staunch the losses no less return to health is on it's face a demand to leave the zone. And I am astonished that the Greeks feel like they can and should alter the bailout memorandum yet stay in the zone. Perhaps they will remain till their living standards drop to parity with Biafra, maybe they have just resigned themselves to a communist or more likely military coup. There is no kind of union in human history that can be shared by Germany and Greece, culturally, economicaly, historically, politically, but most certainly financially.
yup! and tulips bulbs aren't the problem
neither is napoleon!
what is angela gonna do? and why? and when?
then, gPap will know what to do
Niall Ferguson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaI really liked that G- Pap tape bomb a few days back Slewie. Classic /slash and burn/ Scenario!
I'm long the Euro now. Risk reward/ 1.2460 vs 1.2865 pivot to 1.30. I'm in town . Singapore is still Screaming. Investers leaving the United States over that ( TAX Issue). Foreign banks are leaving the the US banking system.
clearly define the enemy
Um, hang on a minute: Isn't this dude the guy who thinks that the claim that the Rothschilds are evil, world rulers is "conspiracy theory" and "myth?" I have a hard time w/anyone who says such things, sorry. I call 'em like I see 'em.
Whether or not Icke is "mad" is another matter entirely, but to defend the Rothschilds seems, well... it is what it is, I guess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk4XYPNA1iQ
Niall is right. Greece is a symptom. Look how many other countries around the world are in very bad shape. It is no coincidence.
The cause of this worldwide problem was discovered many decades ago by Ludwig von Mises. Too bad so many wouldn't pay attention to him when he was warning of what would happen in the Great Depression. Nor did they listen to Rothbard when he detailed the errors made in spawning and prolonging America's Great Depression, or historian Thomas E. Woods' discussion of how America's different reactions to the depression of 1920 and to it's depression of 1929ff produced such differing results.
F.A. Hayek won a Nobel Prize in economics for expanding upon the theory. Prof. Roger W. Garrison has a nice power point presentation he gave to a class showing clearly the causes of the boom bust cycle and the damage it causes to economies.
Mises.org has many other resources on the topic here and here.
There's no excuse for continuing to follow the tragic, failed theories of Keynes, Krugman, Bernanke & Papandreou.
More and more printing and more and more debt will never get us out of the money and debt problems they got us into. It will only shift the cost from the bankers and bondholders who made the bets and would have reaped any benefits, to the people, the vast majority of whom were never involved in making those bad loans, and have less capacity to absorb the losses.
They need to write down the loans to a level that the debtors can reasonably pay and let the chips fall where they may.
In any event, we typically test theories in the real world and discard those proven wrong. Bernanke et al have been proven wrong as we see in this classic compilation of video clips juxtaposing Peter Schiff's warnings of what Fed policies would lead to and Bernanke's assurances that everything was fine:
YouTube - Bernanke was wrong while Peter Schiff was right
Peter Schiffs' company Euro Pacific Capital banks at JP Morgan. Schiffs offshore Gold-based credit card banks with Mastercard, one of the major architects of the debt-slave past 20-30 years Schiff has ranted about so much
Schiff is plugged firmly into the monopolist matrix, one wonders can he save himself before he tries to give us anymore advise
I'm not familiar with all of the inner workings of Euro Pacific, but don't think the examples you bring up are necessarily an indictment of Peter Schiff or Euro Pacific. Sometimes you have to deal with companies or people who are less than exemplary.
Even people vehemently opposed to Hitler, for example, still drove on roads the Nazis built and maintained, used their electricity, drove their Volkswagons etc. I don't think that made them evil, or even necessarily complicit in the evil the Nazis promoted. Or to use your metaphon, when you're enmeshed in the Matrix you must sometimes interact with the Matrix.
I personally evaluate Schiff's ideas on their own merit. Do they make sense? Do they seem to have any ulterior motive? Do they seem to explain the reality as I see it and understand it around me? Does it seem to have any predictive value as a model for the economy?
From my viewpoint they seem to do well on those tests. I'm always open to reevaluating and try to do so on a real time basis, but for now, he seems to have a far far better model than those in charge of the world economy.
Really, Gold?
And how will gold resolve the conundrum of mis-matched economic cultures that is the current EU? Or protect ZH'ers wealth if TSHTF?
I worry about the people on this site sometimes. I read ZH because Tyler is a cynic with a calculator, and he's not afraid to use it. I admire and indeed practice that attitude myself. Many of the posters here are well-informed, objective, and witty. But there is definitely an undercurrent of self-referential echo-sounding here that is a little disturbing. I'm afraid more than a few people are trapped in a certain narrative, which invariably revolves around the end of financial times, buy gold, yada yada.
In the spirit of disclosure, I'm long physical PM. I just don't suffer from the delusion that it's a panacea, or that there aren't risks attached to it. My gold position has made me 3-4% in the last 2 years, and my 16 month-old silver position has lost me 12%. I've made that back and then some on SLV hedges (put spreads mostly), but I don't think that quite squares with the Mike Maloney "Perma-Silver" thesis.
Longs in PM can get hammered. Indeed, we saw it in 2008 as everything including Gold was tossed overboard in a margin-call orgy. We've seen the CRIMEX and CFTC weasels jerk PM-holders around through ever-shifting margin requirements. And though we haven't seen either of these scenarios yet, TPTB could actually allow meaningful deflation to occur or could hike interest rates. Either would be lethal for Gold longs. None of this even begins to mention possible breakdowns between COMEX physical delivery and paper gold positions, or various governmental confiscation scenarios. So let's not kid ourselves, Gold has its risks.
My personal view is that the impending EU disaster is actually Bearish for Gold, at least for the short term. If the Euro disintegrates, that is generally bullish for USD and bearish for everything priced in it, including Equities and Gold. If the Equity-Gold-Commodity Risk-On cohort correlation breaks down and Gold manages to rise as Equities do a Lehman-Moment retrospective, then good for you. I'll be hedging my physical PM positions again, likely with more put spreads.
Let's not get blinded by our own narrative. Trade the world as it actually is, and let's actually try to make some money.....
Verboten! What you have written is forbidden by the survivalist Doomers on Zero Hedge.
You will empty your 401K and sink your entire life savings into gold, silver, guns, ammo, food, liquor, toilet paper, and whatever else you think will make you king of the post-apocalyptic fantasy world you envision. And then you will bury it all under the crawl space of your 3 bedroom rambler in Oklahoma to keep it safe from DHS and the U.N.'s Blue Helmeted troops when they invade the U.S. to confiscate your guns and turn your son gay.
FOR IT IS WRITTEN!
Somehow I get the feeling that the "life savings" of the people advising this is about $20,000. And they're 60 years old living on social security, paid by the government they hate.
By the way, a lot of readers you're referring to have come here from survival sites, right wing radio (Mike Church), and even Drudge Report. Those are the guys using acronyms like "SHTF" and "TEOTWAWKI" and "WROL." These are survivalist slang. These guys aren't investors. They got burned in either the .com or housing bubbles, sold at the bottom, and hate the world. They aren't economists. They aren't in the finance industry. They aren't philosophers or even well educated people. But they are here because they believe the 20 ounces of gold they bought in 2004 will one day be able to be traded for whatever their heart desires.
And I never saw anyone on ZH say to stop buying gold when it was over 1900 an ounce. Nobody but the "trolls", that is. Who were sort of like a court's jester, speaking truth to power and being ridiculed for it.
Psyman - er, so what mate?
Is your high-horse any better than anyone elses at ZH ?
"Longs in PM can get hammered."
Longs in any asset can get hammered, as timing is always the key. Apple was a terrible investment for those who bought in early 2000, and sold in late '02 or early '03.
While your concern about the echo chamber effect is healthy, it seems to me that almost everything about the current, unique set of economic variables points to the likelihood that PMs (especially gold) will appreciate, and quite probably significantly, over the next one to three years. In fact, I'd be shocked if there isn't a crisis, or series of crises that lead to a sharp appreciation in the price of gold.
Having said that, the tricky part will be when to sell, and where to put the proceeds of a profitable sale. I'm inclined to agree with those who suggest that real assets, land being at the top of the list, will prove the best option.
When to sell indeed. I tend to agree with the assertion that physical property, in 3-7 years time, should be a good place to park value post gold-bubble blowup. But what about shorting treasuries? There's a reasonable narrative that says the world will eventually tire of our debt issuance, and sell sell sell. The Fed can then become the only buyer, I suppose, using the "just print it baby" philosophy. Or the Fed could split the difference, allowing both Gold and Treasury yields to rise. We just don't know. As a PM long, though, I worry about the Fed cloning Volker and bringing sanity back to monetary policy. Again, not a popular discussion point here, but it is an actual risk to PM holders.
I would merely like to see a more rounded discussion of the possibilities. For example, you're right that the various fiscal issues of the Western world should, in principle, lead to currency debasement over the long term. Higher gold prices should rapidly follow such debasement (which is why I'm long physical PM). However, it could also lead the Feds to outlaw the possession and sale of Gold again. In other words, we could easily be stripped of the ability to even defend ourselves, let alone profit from the debasement. What then?
Again, I'm not about silly narratives. Being right to me means defending my savings, and hopefully making a profit.
Check this guy out, he thinks he can plan 3-7 years into the future.
"Trade the world as it actually is, and let's actually try to make some money....."
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I can't speak for all ZHers, but I think your last sentence points to the key as to why "their" perspective is so different than your own. It all boils down to two mutually exclusive paradigms for "how the world really is", at least with regard to money and the world economy.
For me it goes back to the struggle between noted economists John Maynard Keynes and F.A. Hayek for acceptance on the world stage for their respective economic paradigms.
Keynes won out, but I think he was dead wrong and Hayek was spot on and the world has been paying the price for choosing an economic system based upon a fatally flawed view of reality.
Unfortunately, the flaws in Keynesian economics as it is currently practiced* isn't a relatively minor distortion, but is an inherent and major flaw in the very foundation of the system, money itself.
From your post, it seems you have bought into his debt based paradigm of money rather than the traditional, I would say necessary, view of money as something of inherent value quite apart from any government mandates.
From your point of view, there's nothing wrong with fiat, and it in fact is your reference point. Your goal is to accumulate as much of it as fast as you can.
From an Austrian economists, point of view, the economy is built upon an unstable and untenable foundation that will need to be destroyed and replaced with a valid one upon which a stable and thriving economy can be built, one which can provide a level playing field for all.
Not sure if you're interested, but if so here are some links for additional reading/viewing that might give you some greater insight into Austrian theory &/or how the Fed came into being and its deleterious effect on the U.S. & world economy ever since:
The Creature from Jekyll Island - A book, though there are some links to the author lecturing (posted on YouTube) It gives some insight on money throughout the ages, why bankers wanted to take control of money, and how they through deceit ramrodded the Federal Reserve down the throats of the country over strenuous objections.
Materials on the Austrian Business Cycle Theory
Austrian Theory of the Trade Cycle - Roger Garrison, professor of economics at Auburn give a power point presentation to a class - posted on YouTube. I thought this was a very good presentation
Human Action Comics #1 - J. Grayson Lilburn - a very basic presentation, in comic book form, of Austrian economics and how things should work. (more of his work)
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* I say as Keynesianism is presently practiced because Keynes himself would turn over in his grave at some of the things those who embraced his ideas with gusto are doing. Our current leaders, for instance, consider inflation to be one of the main tools in their toolbox for changing economic activity... namely pushing economic activity higher. Keynes, however felt it was very bad:
"Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become 'profiteers,' who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.
Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
Well, actually, I think there's plenty wrong with fiat. Which is why I bother posting on this site. And why I own PM.
And you're not omniscient because you have a library card. Thank you for the links, but I'm already pretty familiar with Mises and Hayek, and have read a fair amount of Keynes. I actually am an educated person. I would agree enthusiastically that Keynesianism is being thoroughly bastardized, and that the last 75 years or so have been a subtle but pervasive travesty against sound monetary policy.
Your problem is that your erudition isn't tradeable. Can I buy an ETF that correlates to twice the daily inverse of Lenin futures? How about some Mises call options? You seem aghast that someone would actually want to make some money (literally believing that a dolt like me can't recognize the difference between money, currency, and value).
Make no mistake, my intention is to defend and increase my real purchasing power, hopefully by doing something practical to take advantage of the current financial system, such as it is. I have no illusions about the rational or moral basis for our current financial system. It is, however, the one I actually live in and am forced to deal with.
So have I satisfied you that my thinking is deep enough for me to be allowed to post here? And while you're at it, do you have any practical advice for us, or just a reading list?
My sincere apologies. I misread your distaste for the ZHers harping on gold and silver as not understanding why they were doing so. My bad.
Carry on.
No worries. And thanks for the additional links, actually. Anything I can pick up to help me avoid getting trapped in my own narrative fallacy should help me. Now if only we can help a few other ZH'ers.
The problem is the privately owned fractional reserve banking system which was set up to transfer the wealth of the public into the pockets of the Rothschilds. This acts a little like a parasite sucking a portion of the blood (GDP) of an economy as interest. What has happened is that there is now too much debt and so the parasite is sucking too much blood and the host is starting to die. First the weakest parts die and Greece is one of those but eventually the rest of Europe will die too, it is only a matter of time. The solution is to destroy the parasite or shrink it (debt write offs) to the point that Europe returns to health. Why can't any of these so caalled experts understand this?
They know it well, just trying to suck all the blood possible before let the "patient" go in extremis. Till he recovers and there's blood to suck again. Experts they are, indeed. Experts vampires.
Because it seems that the majority of people, even those on Zero Hedge, believe the global financial system is some kind of organic creation. A force of nature if you will.
They do not properly view it as the artificial creation of man that it is. They do not understand that it is like a computer program, with variables to be adjusted at will by those who pull the levers of power.
It is an interesting phenomenon to see so many people unable to see the big picture and think outside the box.
The problem is that the financial-economic system of the western world (based on perpetual population growth, perpetual debt and the assumption of limitless natural resources) simply isn't sustainable. The system requires infinite growth even though resources are finite.
To characterize the 'solutions' the politicians have offered up in the last 3.5 years: more borrowing (perpetually increasing debt), printing money and giving it for free to the TBTF banks (letting the people pay for the bankers fraud) and as for the EU 'more integration' (which means spreading the contagion). The Euro cannot work, the math simply doesn't add up, Greece and Germany under the same monetary/interest rate regime? What nutcases ever thought that was a good idea?
Disintegration is the only outcome which will benefit everyone in longer term. This forced integration to fulfill the eurofanatic's wet dream of artificial political utopia has already turned into dystopia with bad consequences. It's pure insanity to continue to do more of the same.
You say "disintegration" is the answer.
I say "Eurobonds" are the far more likely eventuality.
Disintegration. Eurobonds. Which sounds less threatening? People always choose the path of least resistance.
To us Dutch, Eurobonds sound more threatening. Maybe the parasites in Southern Europe would prefer them, but we don't.
we are not the parasites down here. the parasites leeched on to us to join without a referendum and with tax payer money for the ads. They gave us cheap debt to buy their crappy lop-sided subs and armaments. Fuck you, Fuck Europe - GOLDEN DAWN
Eurobonds w/o structural reform of the Euro is doubling down on stupid.
(Which means it will probably happen)
Alas, when you run a business in extorting the weak, farming the poor, blobbing up is not a luxury but a necessity.
Disintegration will not help everyone in the long term.
It will leave US citizen europeans fragmented, singled out in a world that has many causes to be hostile to them. Causes brought by US citizen europeans.
Payback can be tough sometimes, especially when you run an extortion, farming biz.
I've finally cracked the Enigma code that is AnAnonymous.
"US citizen" means "white people." He is a Chinese racist that hates all white people and sees them as imperialists and colonialists.
Not that I blame him. Without white people to oppose them is there any doubt that Asians would rule the world?
Fun. Playing the race card?
And your cracking does not reflect your US citizen tendencies for sure.
US citizen means 'american' as a proponent of 'Americanism'
Cant say I havent repeated it over and over again.
But hey, it was destined that a US citizen hardcore will crack up the code to claim that US citizen means white people.
An AnAnonymous display of delusions:
No, it does not.
Repeating the fantasies generated by your diseased mind does not diminish their nature as fantasies.
Your error is in not recognizing that words have meaning. The term "US citizen" has a specific meaning to sane people who use the english language.
You like to define "US citizen" in a variety of different ways, none of which coincide with the way that sane people define the term. That may be fine in the fantasy world which you inhabit. Nobody else inhabits your fantasy world, though, and no matter how hard you wish it, you cannot redefine the term "US citizen" for everyone else.
People born in France are French citizens. Bear with it. People born in Germany are German citizens. Bear with it. People born in England are British citizens. Bear with it. People born in Holland are Dutch citizens. Bear with it. People born in Denmark are Danish citizens. Bear with it. People born in Ireland are Irish citizens. Bear with it. People born in Spain are Spanish citizens. Bear with it. People born in Greece are Greek citizens. Bear with it. People born in Mexico are Mexican citizens. Bear with it.
You are the clear expert on this AnAnonymous character. You have studied him at great length, like a psychiatrist in a psych ward. I am certain you have some insights into the Chinese psyche that you have gleaned from this in depth study. But I'm sure you'll eventually get bored of him.
By the way, Asians are already ruling the world.
When US citizens refer to white people, they have in mind Indo European people, who happen to be Asians.
.
Another unsupported assertion.
New avatar for the racist China man we schooled 6 months or so ago. Chinese society is a dog eat dog mess. 80% of the population lives like peasants in a Monty Python movie, the other 20% are busy trying to suck up to the Government, unsustainable pyramids fall...
why is Papandreou still a guest on chatshows and not skewered on a pitchfork rotting in Athens for him, and his family, wrecking the greek economy and millions of lives on the lie stealing others money will make us all rich (socialism)???
Niall Ferguson, Henry Kissinger apologist.
So he's going to hell too with his buddy Kissinger so they can be raped 24/7 for eternity... nice. Whoever apologises for inhuman trash like Kissinger deserves this fate.
Heartily agree. His reputation is waaaayy beyond his worth. A fascist at heart.
The EU is the cause and the problem. All Europe as a continent needed was free trade and less govt, instead they made govt much larger and the euro made everything less stable. When are they going to get it? Capitalism doesn't need govt to function, but it can be disrupted by it.
no link to clip and no clip in article.
same sloppy habits on the lobby article which fails to mention who the source of the picture is or give a link to their site.
Hey, take content from different places, but provide links and sources!!!
I learned a long time ago if you don't like something then stop doing it. Well the same applies in this case, if you don't like it here stop coming.
Yea Dr. E! Screw any semblance of credible assertion and review!
Wait, that's the basis of almost all PhD programs.... Drink the Kool-Aid, do the dirty work for the annointed ones until you puke, as long as you consistently puke the Kool-Aid given, enough times, you get anointed too!
Clearly you've been anointed by a premier institution of higher Kool-Aid.
Loser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCK4GnxbchY
The fundamental problem from which all others are born is a disregard for rule of law and a lack of clarity in law itself as to what is permissible and that which is illegal.
When criminals can conspire to defraud with impunity and without fear of consequence, then all 'free market' systems will eventually fail.
Trust that pledges and contracts will be honored and adhered to is the fuel that has fired the engines of commerce, beyond simple barter, since trade began and when that confidence is breached and enforcement is arbitrary or capricious, then systemic failure is assured and the only question that remains is how and when the breaking point is reached.
This single element is so obvious and basic that sometimes it seems to be ignored in favor of complex system theory explanations.Clear law and strong swift enforcement are the hallmarks of a functioning civilized society and we now can see the results of it's absence.
Public hangings were designed to give the malefactor over as an object lesson to those who would choose a similar path of crime.I vote for a gallows opposite Congress and on Wall St. and I would not be offended at all by their occasional use as necessary.
Symbols are powerful tools to convey a concept at a glance, and I can think of no stronger message to send to potential criminals than a public display of what waits for modern day pirates.*
* (Slewie excepted)
Regarding the Niall Ferguson debate with the pro-EU person John Mandelson, I had to look up Mandelson.
John Mandelson background: gay, communist, Jewish, and a Bilderberger (1999, 2009, 2011) -- a quadfecta of dysfunction. This guy was pushing hard for expansion and preserving of the EU in the debate. Not that there is anything wrong with being gay.
From the Central Planner Playbook: A wise man once said, I think it was Attila the Hun, "It is not enough that I succeed, everyone else must fail."
*with apologies to Superman III
The global financial system has collapsed. The symptoms we associate with that: credit cards not working, bank runs, back failures, have all been postponed with massive liquidity injections. But just like when the deisnger of the Titanic, Thomas Andrews, observed that boiler room five was flooding, he knw the jig was up, even though it would be hours before the ship actually sank.
To anyone with powers of observation and the courage to admit the truth, its obvious this pup's going down. The problem isn't so much corruption or avoidance of the rule fo law, but the fact that fractional reserve banking is unstable by design. It has been perpetuated for centuries by uncomprehending politicians for one simple reason: it makes bankers rich.
Historically, finacnial failures have been isolated, asynchronous events in single countries. The effects of a single banking system failure could be mitigated by other countries healthy enough to come to their aid. But globalization has givien us an international banking system that is so interconnected that there won't be anyone to come to the rescue.
This is the reason Central Banks and governments are willing to go against the wishes of their people: they simply cannot let the system fail and they cannot tell the people for fear of panic which would precipitate the collapse..
i believe the pompous scottish micro macro cock nial resides in america.
any chanced one of you fellows can double tap this roth shield stooge failing that just kick his teeth in...