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PFG Is Now MFG(lobal) Part 2 As $220 Million In Segregated Client Money Has Just Vaporized

Tyler Durden's picture


UPDATE 2: Have no fear though since as recently as January 2012, the CFTC did not find any "material breaches of customer funds protection requirements" at FCMs (firms like PFGBest)

UPDATE 1: Account-holders may not be so surprised to find who is the custodian for the PFGBest FX accounts: none other than huge MFGlobal fans, JPMorgan!


Remember when the entire segregated account fiasco was supposedly fixed in the aftermath of the November 2011 MF Global bankruptcy, and where regulators: the CFTC, the SEC, the CME, and anyone you asked, swore up and down this would never happen again? Turns out that 7 months later, the spirit of MFG has struck again, only this time with one letter switched: it is now known as PFG, as we suggested first 3 hours ago when we broke the story. From the just filed affidavit by Lauren Brinati who is working with the National Futures Association, which in turn has just filed notice prohibiting PFGBest from operating further, and freezing all of its accounts:

  • On or about June 29, 2012 PFG reported to NFA that it had approximately $400 million in segregated funds, of which more than $225 million were purportedly on deposit at U.S. Bank
  • On or about July 9, 2012, NFA received information indicating that PFG's Chairman may have falsified bank records
  • On July 9, 2012, NFA made inquiry with US Bank and learned that rather than the $225 million that PFG had reported as being on deposit at US Bank just days earlier, PFG had only approximately $5 million on deposit at U.S. Bank.

Translation: another $220 million segregated account pillage has just taken place, in the vein of none other than Jon Corzine and MF Global.

The money has now officially vaporized.

It is truly wonderful of the NFA to finally get involved, after PFG's clients have lost about 98% of their cash held with the firm.

In other potential news, a rather prominent New York bank, recently closely associated with marine wildlife, may have just cut its Q2 losses by up to $220 million.

And now for a moment of sarcasm, courtesy of Jack Pearson.


Full NFA filing:



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Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:19 | 2600357 veyron
veyron's picture

.... And its gone!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:25 | 2600384 FEDbuster
Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:26 | 2600388 The Watchman
The Watchman's picture

Yeah!!!! Vaporized is back!!!! Yeah!!!!


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:30 | 2600411 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Paging Eric Holder.... paging Eric........ oh nevermind.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:02 | 2600528 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hope & Chains.  The never ending Obam looting.  All through Chicago.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:11 | 2600559 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

This is getting ridiculous.  Howie Mandel needs a new show called "Let's Bank and Steal."  Your money will be in one of the cases, and you have to guess which one before they are all empty.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:43 | 2600650 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

JFC, what is the point of any sort of enforcement bureaucracy at all, other than to give some porn-watching MFs a pension?  Burn it all down and let the people with pitchforks restore some semblance of risk/reward.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:08 | 2600701 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Oh fuck.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:13 | 2600710 fuu
fuu's picture

"Further, NFA learned that, in contrast to purported bank confirmations submitted to NFA that sought to confirm U.S. Bank account balances as of February 2010 and March 2011, that reported balances of approximately $207 million and $218 million, respectively, PFG's actual balances at U.S. Bank at those times was less than $10 million for each one of the months."

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:17 | 2600720 veyron
veyron's picture

JPM Earnings this week ... maybe we'll see a 200M+ boost courtesy of PFGBest ...

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:23 | 2600735 sullymandias
sullymandias's picture

they skipped OFG

Oh Fuck!! Global

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:27 | 2600754 veyron
veyron's picture

and NFG

Nitwit-fucker Global

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:31 | 2600766 A L I E N
A L I E N's picture

I'm glad my broker is safe... /sarc

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:51 | 2600810 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

I said it before and I'll say it again


Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:38 | 2601158 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

february 2010, had < $10M when firm cliamed it has $207M

March 2011, had <$10< when firm claimed it had $218M

July 2012, had only $5M instead of $225M



WHAT TOOK THEM SO LONG?????? National Futures Association

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:47 | 2601169 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

on another note....

SEC Freezes Assets of Georgia Investment Adviser Over Alleged $40 Million Scheme in an unregistered investment fund he managed, named PFG LLC.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:16 | 2601243 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Fair to say at this point that the unravelling has now begun in earnest. Big one here, little one there, some rate fixings, some client money de-segregation, some suicides, some suicide attempts, lots of brazen shame-less-ness....

It's over bar the shouting. 

Even the fat lady sang, but no one was listening...




Tue, 07/10/2012 - 07:01 | 2601408 negative rates
negative rates's picture

What a mesed up comment board

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 08:21 | 2601583 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 MFG has struck again, only this time with one letter switched: it is now known as PFG

New trading strategy: short any trading company with a TLA ending in "FG"

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 10:04 | 2601886 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

We need to break out the BFG's to solve this problem.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 00:28 | 2604897 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Are the bullion banks seizing physical to make their own delivery?

Note it is proposed that their customers get 72% of VALUE not of the PHYSICAL METAL seized.



" The trustee overseeing the liquidation of the failed brokerage has proposed dumping all remaining customer assets - gold, silver, cash, options, futures and commodities—into a single pool that would pay customers only 72% of the value of their holdings. In other words, while traders already may have paid the full price for delivery of specific bars of gold or silver—and hold “warehouse receipts” to prove it—they’ll have to forfeit 28% of the value...

...At stake is an unspecified, but apparently large, volume of gold and silver bars slated for delivery to traders through accounts at MF Global, which filed for bankruptcy on Oct. 31. Adding insult to the injury: Of the 28% haircut, attorney and liquidation trustee James Giddens has frozen all asset classes, meaning that traders have sat helplessly as silver prices have dropped 31% since late August, and gold has fallen 16%. To boot, the traders are still being assessed fees for storage of the commodities…"

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:42 | 2601790 spine001
spine001's picture

Sorry, the unraveling has NOT began yet, this is just noise. If it starts it will be the beginning of the end. The whole 700 trillion economy is a gigantic PONZI scheme. If it unravels, forget about everything, from power generation to food distribution. The people the are preparing for the end of the world are "crazies" that are not completely crazy. We can only hope that they are wrong. And by the way, Steve Hawkins agrees with this... :) See his last conference in youtube, it'll open your eyes

Until next time,


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:16 | 2601032 THECOMINGDEPRESSION

How much did Turd and his followers lose on this scam? The paper players can't resist getting fleeced.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:34 | 2601061 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Turd has been encouraging people to get out of paper for a while.  He has said on multiple occassions that only the most experienced traders should still be in the market, and then only if they have some sort of an edge.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 05:52 | 2601372 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

how much is Turd making off that little referral arrangement?

and is it being properly disclosed?

Maybe one of the moderators can provide a Form ADV or other suitable disclosure doc since Turd seems too busy posting music videos on his site.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:29 | 2600758 flacon
flacon's picture

13 minutes to refresh your mind with PHYSICAL SILVER: Silver! Final Warning!


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:57 | 2600828 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Their is over 9 million ounces still standing for delivery and they have been settling single digits a day this month on the comex. And just like last time customer accounts go poof and the silver simply vanishes from customer accounts. Don't worry you sorry a holes you are going to run out of customers and companies.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:56 | 2601103 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

And the prize goes to...cowdiddly...for figuring it out. Soooo-prize!!!!!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:36 | 2601153 Michael
Michael's picture

How many millions stolen from millionaires does it take before some millionaire puts a hit out on these thieves?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:52 | 2601175 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

empires collapse within....

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 10:41 | 2602034 gabeh73
gabeh73's picture

So basically my Interactive Brokers account will get wiped out even if I have come up with a great trading algorithm?


This is discouraging

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 13:14 | 2602685 kginsberg
kginsberg's picture

If you have a Universal account with MF Global, all of your $$$'s that are not needed for actual futures margin are swept back into your securities account every day so that you are at least covered by SIPC insurance instead of having your futures funds in a seg account which is how MFG and now it seems PFG managed to steal our money.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 13:14 | 2602686 kginsberg
kginsberg's picture

If you have a Universal account with MF Global, all of your $$$'s that are not needed for actual futures margin are swept back into your securities account every day so that you are at least covered by SIPC insurance instead of having your futures funds in a seg account which is how MFG and now it seems PFG managed to steal our money.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 10:53 | 2602086 gabeh73
gabeh73's picture

So basically my Interactive Brokers account will get wiped out even if I have come up with a great trading algorithm?


This is discouraging

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:24 | 2600597 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Do you know where your money is tonight?


Obviously, many more of these funds will follow suit since zero, zilch, nothing has been done to the perps. Unless your $$ is worth a Giant Fund like Vanguard/Fidelity/The Reserve Fund...... my guess is you had better be nervous.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:15 | 2601129 Harry Paratestes
Harry Paratestes's picture


Wake up the fuck.  Russel Wassendorf, Whole owner of Peregrine Futures is an "Old Died in the Wool Republican" from Iowa.  I've met him on numerous occations, oily is the best description I can give.  Had a poster sized picture of himself with, George Herbert Walker Bush, in his Conference Room.  Scum knows no political boundries, except the boundries of Washington, DC, witch seems to attract the biggest scum.


Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:42 | 2601164 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

interestingly he has trails of campaign donations to democrats in Chicago.....


Russell Wasendorf's Education University of Northern Iowa Film Making
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 13:06 | 2602636 kginsberg
kginsberg's picture

WHat exactly does his being from Iowa, or a Republican have to do with the  fact that he is probably a crook and stole customers money. Corzine was an "Old DIed In the Wool Democrat" from New jersey, does that make it ok for Corzine since his political beliefs were probably more in line with yours?

Scum come in both Donkey and Elephant clothes, and you trying to make it a left or right issue instead of a right or wrong issue simply shows that you would rather blame the republicans for all of the nations woes, than simply blame it on the fact that there are crooks amongst us.


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:15 | 2600567 Blammo
Blammo's picture

Seems being a Canadian does have advantages....When I tried to open an account with P F'n G Best they said a much higher commision structure would apply to me than advertised, since I'm a Canuck.

So I declined their offer.

Better to be lucky than to hope for an effective regulator,I guess.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:48 | 2600805 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Sorry our politicians and regulators are whores. At least your money is not with these bums..

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 01:50 | 2601225 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Better to be lucky than to hope for an effective regulator,I guess.

After MFG, anyone keeping anything in a brokerage accout is a MORON.

And by the way, 401k is a brokerage account, IRA is a brokerage account.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 13:12 | 2602661 kginsberg
kginsberg's picture

Dupe post.. sorry

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 13:10 | 2602662 kginsberg
kginsberg's picture

Actually  the problem with MFg was that our money was NOT in a brokerage account, it was in a futures account which was not subject to SIPC insurance. It is the futures acount that utilizes the supposedlt sacrosnct "segregation" methodology to protect customer funds which MFG and it seems PFG now dipped their scummy hands into. Had it been in a brokerage account, it would have been insured at least up to the SIPC limits.


ALso, a 401k or a IRA is NOT by definition in a brokerage account. You can have either or both in an FDIC insured bank, or a mutual fund, or any other of a myriad number of investment vehicles that have nothing to do with a brokerage account. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:01 | 2600838 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Where is CORZINE ?  (maybe $200M richer?...or maybe the money was sent to the Bahamas).

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:32 | 2601058 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Where is CORZINE ? Exactly! Answer: Not in jail! Thus it happens again. And will happen yet again, and again, and again...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 04:08 | 2601325 natty light
natty light's picture

Inaction Jackson

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:30 | 2600414 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

Still trying to get my money back from MuthaFuckinGlobal. Still have a distribution to go.


Where is the fucking handcuffs for Corzine???? Hang that bastard from a tree. No mercy.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:42 | 2600457 Doña K
Doña K's picture

I'd better cash my IRA tomorrow. In my next year's tax return, I would take my own exclusion as fear of rehypothecation. I will ask the IRS to check with the SEC.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 03:55 | 2601135 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

The "Talk to Chuck" campaign, launched out of pure desperation by business starved Charles Schwab to somehow attract the remaining scraps of retail investors, has just been torpedoed, blown up, and sunk by PFG.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:56 | 2601853 spine001
spine001's picture

HaHAHAHA. Your funnily right! It's true that if you take your money out of your IRA and you use it to buy a large field, seeds, agricultural machinery, weapons and establish a perimeter and that you protect 24/7, you may be alright in what is coming (assuming the nukes never actually fly). But if you keep it in cash or even precious metal, good luck. Think how would you actually protect it from vandals? Would you be able to eat it? or drink it? If you keep it in cash, make sure that it is in 1 dollar bills, so that at least you will be able to use it to heat yourself up in winter by burning it...

If the system breaks only those who prepared seriously for it will survive, like the crazies that bought refuges for the Mayan end of the world day... And even them will be challenged.

Keep your money in your 401K and your IRA, just move it to a safe institution, just see how they all fared in 2008 and choose the one that had the least headlines... Or go full blown and protect yourself seriously, there is NO room for middle ground if the system falls. Sad to say.

Until next time,


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:49 | 2600484 rocker
rocker's picture

Just don't forget the flip flop from JP Morgan.  We have the money. No we don't.

We have some of the money. No we don't.  You may be a victim of the whale trade.

There is much more to this than any of us will ever know. Think about this.....

I am not defending Corzine, but I suggest he might be in part, a JP Morgan victim too. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:17 | 2600577 Blammo
Blammo's picture

Then don't ....Cause he's guilty as hell........

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:47 | 2600798 Harvey Lee Oswald
Harvey Lee Oswald's picture

Not that it absolves him of any of the guilt, but you don't think Dimon strongarmed him (maybe more than) a little?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:11 | 2601122 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

He could have reached through the firewall to his conscience and said "No can do, Jamie. I'd be breaking the law. Sorry buddy, you'll just have to eat this one"................... Al wakes with a start from his dream.............. rolls over and returns to dreaming of big fish..... and how to smoke 'em.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:09 | 2600702 Whiner
Whiner's picture

The Morgue will become Chair of the PFG Creditors Committee and finish picking the bones.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:08 | 2600548 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I guess with so much money disappearing the risk of hyperinflation has been reduced significantly.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:00 | 2601107 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

I would say that this is a deflationary even, except that it was surely already priced in. You know, efficient market hypothesis and all

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:55 | 2601176 walküre
walküre's picture

Until THE BIG PRINT and then all hell will break loose and you want to be 100% in tangible assets because all paper in circulation or digital will be completely worthless.

The realization is hitting NOW.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:08 | 2601238 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



No money has disappeared.  It simply went in someone elses pocket.

"vaporized" is a bad choice of words.

"stolen" would be more fitting.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:19 | 2600883 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Wake me when we get to vaporize the bankers.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:57 | 2600983 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Who could have seen this coming?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 01:10 | 2601194 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Apparently JP Morgan.  They are really good at what they do...

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:23 | 2600590 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Bankers to Congressional Committees:-

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:23 | 2600593 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

The funny part is they used to spam my in-box about trading contests.

"Top finishers receive their trophies at a gala awards ceremony hosted by CME Group - on the trading floor in Chicago."

No word on what ceremony is held if your account vaporizes... odd.


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:28 | 2600755 world_debt_slave
Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:26 | 2600391 CreativeDestructor
CreativeDestructor's picture

Jamie's got a gun.....


Hookers and blow bichez!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:23 | 2600594 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

See above.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:27 | 2600398 ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

Muppets get Corzined again. Too bad the CEO is not as good at killing himself as he is a stealing other people's more noose I guess

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:26 | 2600601 JustACitizen
JustACitizen's picture

Isn't it funny how these incredibly successful people always seem to fail at the little things...dude - just close up your garage - run the engine on your S550 (or whatever) and fall asleep. When you wake up - watch out for the guys in red...I've been told they are ill-tempered and have no sense of humor.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:07 | 2600698 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

But at least he'd get to spent lots and lots of time with all his bankster friends. They have a grand ole get-together planned for all of them. :)

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:30 | 2600413 Waffen
Waffen's picture

This clearly isn't news as the nightly news found a story about a shark in the water by a kayaker more important then 200 million in stolen funds.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:37 | 2600437 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Sharks in the summer waters off the coast of southern MA just after stealing millions is not news at all..


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:59 | 2600830 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Lotsa sharks everywhere these days....

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:25 | 2600599 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

That's so yesterday. One of the Kardashian scrubbers just gave birth.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:20 | 2600725 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

All of your Bruce Jenner's childrens are belong to us.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:31 | 2600614 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

$220 million is pocket change for Corzine...he probably wouldn't stoop to pick that small amount up off the ground.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 03:24 | 2601293 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

yeah he would

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:53 | 2600674 Oleander
Oleander's picture

The sharks in the water sent many to the waterpark today at $30 bucks a person.  I overheard a few people talking about the kayaker.  $10 for a locker and $30 for a cabana, the land sharks are doing great.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:31 | 2600417 RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:37 | 2600438 ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

Sounds like a great surprise reality show.

Hidden camera crew at a bank or brokerage. 'contestant' tries to withdraw funds. "Surprise bitches! You just got Corzined!". The camera crew pops out. Hilarity ensues.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:57 | 2600513 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

You forgot the part where the bank manager pulls the customer's pants down, bends them over, and sticks a dildo in their ass. Then the camera zooms in on their face, and everyone in the bank screams, "you just got corzined!!!"

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:01 | 2600525 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

you're on Corzine Camera!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:31 | 2600613 thomas pain
thomas pain's picture

I wish I got facebooked instead

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:50 | 2600490 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

Honorable Mr. Wasendorf

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:43 | 2600649 Manthong
Manthong's picture

It looks like the dude was at least trying to do the right thing.

Someone should give the poor man a hand and get him a Kaishakunin..

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:19 | 2600723 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

 "The use of a kaishakunin is normally reserved for one who is performing the deed out of honor, rather than in disgrace" I saw on TV that Corzine is honerable, so i guess i can loan him and his kaishakunin a pair of bamboo katanas. Just give me a call big C.

Recommended movie:

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:53 | 2600497 max2205
max2205's picture

'Those were the best of times and the worst of times'.....fuck you Ben!!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:11 | 2601002 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:09 | 2601012 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

ABRA.........damn I didn't even get a chance to say CADABRA

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:45 | 2601086 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Looks like that chick that closed down her own trading shop last year (Barnhard?) was right.  Never just one roach.....

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 01:25 | 2601207 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it.  Those who fail to learn history correctly -- Why they are simply doomed.

Quoted from the Andromeda TV series S01E03

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:45 | 2601264 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

I've said for months that more than just MF Global was doing the customer account thing, the onion is slowly peeling it's skin.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 08:32 | 2601600 d edwards
d edwards's picture

I'm shocked! SHOCKED!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:19 | 2600361 SheepRevolution
SheepRevolution's picture

Still waiting for the day when JP Morgon files for Chapter 11. All hell will break loose in this world.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:23 | 2600372 veyron
veyron's picture

JP Morgon will file chapter 11.  JP Morgan?  Never

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:40 | 2600446 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

"JP Morgan?"

SheepRevolution was closer, how about JP More-gone?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:53 | 2600502 veyron
veyron's picture

JP More-Gone, JP More-gan, JP Mor-Gone, etc all will declare bankruptcy, but JP Morgan never will ...

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:12 | 2600705 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

true, the morgue will probably not fall to bankruptcy....

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:14 | 2601026 poor fella
poor fella's picture

Screw bankruptcy - send a warning, let anyone decent leave, and make it VERY difficult to carry on business. Dodging bullets and putting out fires (literally) has a huge affect on earnings. FUCK JPM! FUCK YOU DIMON. YOU AND YOUR HEATHEN-THIEVES ARE LOWER THAN LYME-DISEASED TICKS. cocksuckers

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:02 | 2601109 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

They won't go BK until The Whale loses $100B. So far as I know, the count in $9B.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:11 | 2601123 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:19 | 2600362 Aziz
Aziz's picture

Saving the financial system was clearly worth it.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:49 | 2600483 GoldenTool
GoldenTool's picture

More light!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:02 | 2600840 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

Comment of the day right there!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:11 | 2601021 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Problem is too much regulation, right?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:21 | 2600364 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Clearly once again the answer is to reduce regulation on the banks.  Probably need to lower their tax rate as well.  And get rid of unions.  Especially the union thing.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:23 | 2600373 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeah, that Dodd-Fwank thingy is working wonders ain't it?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:30 | 2600400 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The system is broken because the banks own the regulators and the politicans, not because the banks have insufficient freedom and power.  Go ahead -- show me how too much government is responsible for this guy spending or otherwise misappropriating hundreds of millions of private clients' funds.  

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:42 | 2600455 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You mean Chris "Friend of Angelo" Dodd and Bwaney "My Boyfriend's Fanny Sits at FNM" Fwank were not the best choices for "our government" to rein in the DC to NYC cronyism & corruption?

Some real late breaking news there LTER.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:58 | 2600515 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You mean Angelo Mozilo who agrees completely with the idea that his ilk drive the economy?  "I must admit that the upcoming election has exacerbated my concerns in that a Kerry win could cause a serious disruption in the economy if he is successful in rolling back a substantial portion of the tax breaks initiated by Bush. It is the wage earners $200,000 and over that are the drivers of the economy and that is the group that Kerry has stated that he will attack. This could clearly cause a major bump in the road.  As you know I have no political bias but I would be concerned about any candidate that proposes a massive wealth transfer from the people to the federal government.  I would like you to consider my concerns and let me know your thoughts." 2004 Mozilo email to executives at Countrywide.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:03 | 2600602 nmewn
nmewn's picture

John Kerry? mean the richest senator in the Senate who registered his yacht in a different state to avoid a paltry (at his wealth) taxation? Who actively engaged in insider trading as the ObamaTax was being put together?

That John Kerry?

A two headed hydra is a lot of fun to watch fight itself...just don't get caught in the'll get bloodied.


And another thing (almost slipped by into the popular lexicon)...since when is 200k "rich"?

Thieving, double talking, progressive dicks.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 03:57 | 2601320 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

John Kerry. 3 Purple Hearts, not one stitch. "He was for the Vietnam war before he was against it"

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:08 | 2600547 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Pretty much the Senators from CT, NY and NJ run the banking system, Wall Street and the regulators over them.  They are like the old crime families in NYC.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:07 | 2600855 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

You can just decide to overlook the fact that Boner and Paul "Tin Cup for TARP" Ryan begged for the Wall St bailouts and now are against any new regulations for the industry. There needs to be effective regulations with regulators who do their fucking job.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:46 | 2600476 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Which regulations would you put into place to stop them from owning the politicians and regulators?

Let me guess, get rid of the politicians, and install an economic dictator?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:51 | 2600492 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Get money out of politics.  Or we can let these guys just rule us directly without any representative government at all as you desire.  

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:58 | 2600517 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How are you going to do that?  Chain up the politicians, and hang them when they leave office?  I'd be all for that.

How is a corporation going to exist without a government?  How is a company going to make money by conquest in the face of a larger market with a lot more firepower?  How can any company oppress anyone without the might of the government to back them?  I can't think of a way.  But then, maybe you, who seems to know so much better than everyone else, can tell us.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:02 | 2600530 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Why is it that you can so easily envision a world that has never existed in all of human kind where there is no government and no warlord and no thug ruling the rest of us, but you cannot fathom the slightest chance of tweaking a system that worked very well for 200+ years that has been taken over by oligarchs?  

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:07 | 2600545 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Who said I couldn't?  But you aren't calling for that, you are calling for MORE REGULATIONS.  You don't want to roll the system back to its MINARCHIST beginnings.  You are the one that wants to try something "new", that has actually been tried in every state that ever failed.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:19 | 2600580 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

If you ever read what I say, I call for much smaller government but much more effective regulation of things like banks.  The currently regulatory structure was largely written by the regulated via their lobbyists.  The present structure exists to foster their business model anbd to create the illusion of regulation, not to regulate them.  Taking money out of politics would allow actual public servants to get back into control and rewrite the laws. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:59 | 2600685 pods
pods's picture

The "money" that you speak of in politics is due to the power in politics.

You cannot have one without the other (power attracts money).

How can you have regulation that will reel in the banks without the banks getting behind it and using it to futher legalize their plunder?

Why not remove all monopoly power of banks and the FED.

Public money freely traded, no FDIC or no fractional reserve banking.

If you have both, you have the moral hazard that we have today, where a bank's risks are backstopped by the gun of the government.

Sorry, but you cannot "reform" the present system.

That is like fucking for virginity or bombing for peace.

Just my 2c, not wanting to gang up on you, as I do respect your views here.


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:43 | 2600789 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

One Government Regulation, or regulation of government, I could stand behind would be this, easy in the internet age:

All elected officials must publish daily their schedule on their websites, noting every person met and how much said person or his/her corporation/industry has contributed to the officials' campaign coffers.  Phone logs, with similar info, to be published, too.

In addition, whenever an elected official appears on the public airwaves, whether it is C-SPAN or CBS, a ticker must be put on the bottom where the scroll of the officials' top five campaign contributors are noted and run during the length of the pols' soundbite.  These are public airwaves, afterall.

I could also go along with, but not insist upon, requiring that all officials attach logos, NASCAR-style, to their suits, denoting top contributors/owners.

Obviously such measures would require a referendum, as politicians are unlikely to introduce such a requirement themselves.  Some might consider this an invasion of privacy, but given all the laws passed that affect us, turnabout seems fair play.  Being a Public Official should be a public matter.  Those choosing to remain Private Citizens should retain the right to privacy.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 04:01 | 2601322 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Regulatory Capture. It's the law. It isn't a bug, it's the feature.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:14 | 2601126 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Don't you get it TM. LTER is the new MDB.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:23 | 2600592 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Right on!

The idea of no government is just a fairy tail. Something will fill the vacuum (war lord, street gang, corporate private armies)

We need the government. We need to return it to the state where it looks out for the interests of everyone. Not the just the oligarchs and the corporations they control .

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:16 | 2600719 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

my SUV took off last night with my gun to go and fill the void. I am not sure where they both went, but the last I heard the SUV was attacking innocent priuses and the gun was out spurring gang violence. I thought that I taught them both better.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:02 | 2600688 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"Worked well"

Nearly choked to death laughing at that.

This wouldn't be the same system which has slaughtered millions of people, destroyed countries on every non-polar continent, run the biggest scams in human history, used nuclear weapons on a civilian population, starved 500,000 Iraqi children ("worth it!"), used false-flag operations to initiate wars of choice, participated in genocide, turned a blind eye to the most heinous crimes in human history, stolen more money than had up to that time ever existed in history, been caught countless times murdering its opponents, propping up dictators, running drugs, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum

Yeah, that's "worked well". It's all the the fault of the evil corporations which, by definition, cannot exist in the absence of the sovereign power which grants them incorporation, establishes, enforces, and protects their cartels, manipulates laws, taxes, and regulations in their favor, etc.

You live in a fantasy world where the State isn't the pure evil it most plainly is, regardless of who is running it or what it's called.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:02 | 2600993 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"You live in a fantasy world where the State isn't the pure evil it most plainly is, regardless of who is running it or what it's called."

And you seem unable to look past your own screen door.... good luck with that.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:57 | 2600679 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

There are more than a few democratic countries on this planet that 1. Do not consider corporations as people.  2. Limit campaign spending  3. Legislate disclosure of campaign contributions. Seems pretty simple to me.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:03 | 2600691 pods
pods's picture

It has nothing to do with your red herrings. It has to do with two things.

1. Power

2. Money

There will always be corruption with a state as powerful as the USSA's.

Have you seen the wrath unleashed over the last 50 or so years all over the planet?

Sure you can bring up dozens of countries where there is less corruption.  And none of these has the reserve currency (and military to enforce it) of the planet.

As long as there is this much concentrated power, you will have people who want to yield it.

Simple really.


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:12 | 2601023 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Or even 'wield' it!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:41 | 2601077 pods
pods's picture

Yeah, what he said!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:37 | 2601068 tmosley
tmosley's picture

List them, please.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:45 | 2600794 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

No regulators.  You want a car telling you how fast you can drive, you pussy.  Buyer beware, or die.  Live or die, or someone will live for you AND kill you.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:44 | 2600460 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Hey, look who the managing director is of the privately funded and operated National Futures Association:  Michael C. Dawley*

Managing Director
Goldman Sachs & Co.
200 West Street
3rd Floor
New York, New York 10282

Once again, self-regulation of the industry proving itself effective.  

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:55 | 2600504 nmewn
nmewn's picture

What part of this...

  • On or about July 9, 2012, NFA received information indicating that PFG's Chairman may have falsified bank records
  • On July 9, 2012, NFA made inquiry with US Bank and learned that rather than the $225 million that PFG had reported as being on deposit at US Bank just days earlier, PFG had only approximately $5 million on deposit at U.S. Bank.
  • ...are you having a problem with?

    He "may have falsified records". How does more regulation uncover someone falsifying before the money gets regulators have some sort of mind reading device now?

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 19:59 | 2600518 LetThemEatRand
    LetThemEatRand's picture

    Pathetic.  When private enterprise fucks up you give them a pass.  This didn't happen overnight.  Ideological shill.  

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:05 | 2600539 tmosley
    tmosley's picture

    You are the one blaming all this on some tiny private agency no-one has ever heard of before in the face of numerous government regulators with authority over them who did NOTHING, because they are CAPTURED.

    Funny that you think you can stop regulatory capture by removing the money from politics (rather than the bureaucracy).

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:10 | 2600558 MsCreant
    MsCreant's picture

    Money out of politics would be a good thing. Term limits, no lobbying would be a good start.

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:26 | 2600600 tmosley
    tmosley's picture

    Term limits contravene the will of the people (whatever that is worth), and no lobbying means no free speech.

    Sadly, the truth is that Republican Democracy has reached its natural endpoint.  The mob now knows it can vote itself more money.

    We need to overthrow this entire government and start over.  The sum total of Federal laws should not take more than an evening to read, and the tax code, if there must be one, should be able to fit on one side of one page.  We are baffled with bullshit to the extent that we can't even move any more.

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:47 | 2600663 MsCreant
    MsCreant's picture

    You are right. In this system, if it was saveable, I would be right. But it isn't, is it? It is being vaporized as we type.

    Tue, 07/10/2012 - 05:01 | 2601351 merizobeach
    merizobeach's picture

    "Term limits contravene the will of the people."

    Congressional term limits ARE the will of the people.  Term limits initiatives have passed in several states, and the most notable (and notorious) outcome was Speaker of the House Tom Foley suing his constituents in WA who had passed one.  Congresspeople like Foley have fought term limits bills, steamrolling voting results and voter intent through the courts.  Finally, the advocate group US Term Limits, which had sponsored many of the initiative campaigns, essentially folded after so many court defeats.

    As a person who circulated term limits petitions in several states back in the mid and late 90s, I can tell you that at that time, public sentiment was very much in favor of adding term limits to one of the only elected offices that doesn't have them.  The striking down of term limits laws enacted by voter initiative is what actually contravened the will of the people.

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:46 | 2600657 Debt-Is-Not-Money
    Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

    Lobbying on the federal level began with the centralization of power in D.C. with the passage of the 17th amendment (direct election of U.S. State Senators). This along with the 16th amendment (income tax) and the establishment of the fraudulently named Federal Reserve were a package deal with each requiring the other.

    The 17th effectively converted our representative republic into a democracy (mob rule). To properly solve the problems addressed here ALL of them must be done away with. The 16th and 17th amendments were never constitutionally ratified and the Congress had no authority to delegate to others that which it's obligated to do under the constitution. Violation of their oaths of office is felony perjury.

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:09 | 2600552 MsCreant
    MsCreant's picture

    He is not giving them a pass. I listen to you with an open mind. That response sucked.

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:23 | 2600591 LetThemEatRand
    LetThemEatRand's picture

    I disagree.  His point is that it would have been impossible to uncover the fraud before it happened.  If you speak those words relative to the financial crises of 2008 and you apply them to government regulators, he would spend the rest of the evening telling you that you are a naive statist.  My point is that the government regulators are corrupt, and the industry self-regulators are the corruptors who have been given the keys to the hen house.  He sees the first part but ignores the second because it conflicts with his desired solution of putting private industry in charge of itself.

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:31 | 2600612 tmosley
    tmosley's picture

    Define "before it happened".

    Are seriously proposing a future crimes unit?  Shall I call up Tom Cruise and his pal Xenu to help you draw that up?

    Your point is stupid.  No-one gave away the keys to the henhouse, they left it open while the legions of guards and troops were masturbating to tranny porn and taking shots of heroine in their ballsacks while partying with the foxes.

    But here you are complaining about all the private sector shit when you should be talking about how you want to reform the SEC.  If you weren't lying to me, then you should be talking about how you want to shrink government, and remove corporate influence.  But for some reason, the only words that cross your fingers are ones of Commie bullshit, and capitalism/fascism conflation.

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 20:45 | 2600655 LetThemEatRand
    LetThemEatRand's picture

    You certainly are the king of the last word.  It's all yours.  Keep preachin' for self-regulation and glossing over all evidence such as this story that proves it fails miserably when put into action.  Blind ideology and facts have always been mortal enemies.

    Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:10 | 2600704 tmosley
    tmosley's picture

    WTF are you talking about?  I want the SEC to do their fucking jobs NOW.  But they don't, and instead we have tiny little private regulators that have to step in and handle it in the face of all this regulation that does absolutely nothing to stop the corruption.

    But you bitch ON and ON about PRIVATE regulators, and NEVER talk about reform of government until you are backed into a corner, and even then, you give ZERO specifics.

    You are a blind man laughing at the perceived blindness of others.  Fucking wanker.

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