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Santelli And The November Obamacare 'Referendum'
In a brief clip this morning, CNBC's Rick Santelli said a lot in a few words. His critical insight was that today's decision is about process and not preference and that the real decisions will be made in November when it becomes 'the people's choice'. He is a big believer in the 'pragmatic process' we should all enjoy and suggests today's SCOTUS decision (doing what they do best in comprehending the law) should be 'taken with respect' but notes the analogy to Europe:
"You can try to have the mighty above tell the people below how they should live their lives, what they should get, and 'the government big enough to give you everything you want, and', in the words of Thomas Jefferson, 'big enough to take away everything you have.' But what are we left with really? We are left with an issue that should, by all indications be voted on by the American public. No matter how the Supreme Court decision worked out; no matter what the legislative process tells us; no matter how ugly this process was to get passed; in the end, I think it's more than appropriate that this will be, in my opinion, part of the referendum in November as to whether the public wants this or not."
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We were back in the good ol' days. Now it will be more like $1.5 Trillion.
Docs are pulling money out for retraining and job search expenses.
Massive new spending we can't afford.
Massive deepening depression.
Massive deflation as demand falls to near zero.
Gold and silver fall, but probably retain or increase purchasing power.
"Why are precious metals going down? This news is very bullish for higher deficits and more QE. Gold and silver should be surging on trillions of new spending."
When they control the money supply, the interest rate(the price of money), and the amount of debt the tax slaves owe, what is there that they can't control?
I will simply quote James Grant of Grant's Interest Rate Observer...
"All markets are manipulated."
Oh wait, another "Most important election of my lifetime."
Goodie!
Wake the fuck up people.
Might turn on hannity on the ride home just to hear the dripping irony about how we all must band together and vote for Mittens so he can repeal a law that he pushed through for MA.
What's next, he will defend his AWB too? Cause it gets cold in MA, and he didn't want anyones charging handle freezing up in a cold N'oreaster. Yeah, that's it! He was trying to protect us with that!
Haha, send in the clowns.
pods
puke
Vote for Mittens. Why? Well, we need a banker to get our house in order.
And anyway if anything goes wrong he knows where the Ctrl_P panic button is.
"Do as you're told!"
"Healthcare is a fundemental human right,..."
Crappy healthcare INSURANCE that will bankrupt the country is not a human right.
The people's choice, ha. We get to choose between the author of Obamacare or the author of the law that was the blueprint for Obamacare.
My choice? Writing in Ron Paul.
What if they gave a bogus election and nobody voted?
They'd just make up the numbers - kinda like they do now, only on a larger scale.
"part of the referendum in November…"
There will be no fair vote on Obamacare in November unless the Republican candidate, if it’s Romney, declares that no new health care legislation will be considered until the Congress with his leadership overturns every single part of the law. It will be meaningless for neo-con right-wing extremists like Sean Hannity to urge Romney’s election in order to fill Supreme Court vacancies. Bush’s appointee Roberts, with Arizona and Obamacare under his gavel, destroys that argument completely.
BTW, Santelli’s comments are excellent and we are indeed fortunate to have Tyler when critical summaries are needed.
People will elect Obama again , want that or not. It is illuminati decision. Take a look ar Ron Paul, there were cities with 85% in his favor and he didnt get a single win in it. Thats what I am calling lost decade. If someone can manipulate general elections than it is piece of cake to rule the finacial markets.
Actually Thomas Jefferson never made that statement about big government - it was Gerald Ford. Not kidding. Maybe it was a lucid moment and he was channeling Jefferson or something.
Republicans appointed 5 out of the 9 justices and November is going to magically bring some sort of change-agent ascension? Delusion springs eternal apparently.
The corrupt Republican establishment, crony capitalists, the same people who hate the Tea Party and Sarah Palin, picked George W., nice man, but clueless about the Constitution and free enterprise. Big spender, too, a perfect choice for them. Someone made a list of judges for him and he picked the big government guy. Big surprise. Then Obama picked two socialist hacks whom no one expects to defend the Constitution. However, we do have a legislative branch that can repeal repugnant laws. This is not Europe.
Santelli's about as full of crap as they come. Since when did the American people get to vote for anything, other than these worthless POS democrats and republicans?
If I get a vote, let me vote for single payer and throwing out The Federal Reserve Act of 1913. But as usual, the American people don't get a fucking say in important decisions. All we get are the propaganda and the bills.
Although unpopular with many ZHers, I vote with you.
Despite what many people say, Single Payer is unlikely to be any more expensive than what we have now. For god's sake, just look at Health Care Expenditures around the world. Our current system costs way more than any "socialized" medicine country in the world, often by a factor of 2-3x more expensive. And our care is clearly not 2-3x better. (we can argue if ours is better or worse, but nobody can realistically argue that our care is 2x better).
all that said: American Politicians could likely try to figure out some way to make American Single Payer more expensive... like by forbidding Medicare/Medicaid to negotiate drug prices with BigPharma...
yes, our care is more than 2-3 timse better. I'd like to hear from some docs here, but the root of new practices usuallys comes from the US. New drugs the same. Education, don't US schools educate either directly or indirectly the vast majority of the world's doctors?
Who is the "single" payer ? Please watch you grammar.
We the People........?
btw price discovery in government run systems is close to impossible. How then do we calculate an appropriate delta to measure "savings" ?
cartelocracy
Real great analysis. Despite what Romney is now lying uh saying, the ACA is patterned after his MA implementation. He was for it before he was against it. Sure.
True, but only 1 candidate is saying he will repeal it....
It ain't the Obaminator...
So stay home and keep Obama in, It sure as hell won't be repealed. If you don't vote Romeny you have NO chance for repealing it....So Hold YOUR NOSE and vote Romeny to have any chance, even a slim one is better than none....FWIW
70 pages vs 2700 pages.
No burden on the rest of the people.
Mandate allowed cheaper catastrophic plans not expensive plans that most young people don't need.
No death panels, no affirmative action for residency programs.
Yeah they're the same
I like Santelli, but he missed the mark here.
The voters in November, assuming Romney/Obama are the choices - aren't going to decide anything.
the Health Care Law is just to make Government Bigger and more a part of your life. Now even the poor people will have to report all of their income to the Government to try to qualify for subsidies. Including the 40% that do not pay taxes. the paper work will be a nightmare.
As the one Senator said that now everyone will have the IRS chasing them around to check to see if people have insurance.
Now everyone will be in your face if you buy a Donut or a Fast food Burger and Fries as they will feel that THEY are paying if you get Fat. The Fat Police will be everywhere. Not to mention Alcohol or Tobacco.
What about the people that are unemployed that have to shell money out of their pocket for premiums when they need it for food for their family? Will the IRS be chasing them down? What about under employed people? Will they have to give up their apartment and live on the street to pay for Health Care?
Feels like a Totalitarian State.
1. Prices will increase from the increased liquidity from the transfer payments.
2. Government regulators (health care lobbies) will have more say in medical decisions.
3. Your health care will be fine tuned to make money for the aforementioned health care companies.
4. Legislative, regulatory, and fiscal creep will siphon off this money to pay for something other than health care.
5. Social security is a bad idea. This will be worse.
"the Health Care Law is just to make Government Bigger and more a part of your life."
And that is why it will not get repealed. both sides want the same thing. to stay in office.
What haven't I read yet? Once this is law, the parts can be changed more easily. so, if it isn't exactly what they want now, they will fix that later.
Do yourself a favor. Work the extra hour it takes to vote and spend that money on some bullets instead.
Do both...Vote and buy bullets...Multitask
Good advice for Greeks, but this is the USA and we have a sacred duty to use lawful means to restore the Constitution. If Obama cancels elections it's a new ball game.
stop with the nonsense of
Including the 40% that do not pay taxes.
They pay plenty of taxes. They may just not pay one, the federal income tax, big deal.
Bullshit. They dont' just pay zero federal income tax, they get the earned income tax credit. Thats like a negative tax. That more than offsets most of the other taxes those 40% allegedly pay.
The only fair tax is no tax, but then we couldn't afford all those cops and firemen making 60k a year + benefits. Isn't that right cawldiddy?
Hey! This is great. Let's see... I'm gonna get a heart transplant (maybe liver and lung too), a hip replacement, hernia surgery, have my colon removed for a colostomy bag, and maybe get some facial cosmetic surgery. Thanks Supreme Court and thanks President Obama for being a man of the people.
Not if you’re over 52; you’re going to get a death call from The Obama Heathcare Reaper (see Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel’s Grim Reaper curve).
Health care will be rationed by somebody (and it ain't you). As a society we need to pick our poison. Do we want it to be Govt, or a private business?
Currently we choose private businesses as death panels. Want leukemia treatment? gotta ask your insurance company if it's covered (if you have insurance). Want that triple bypass? Oops! Pre-existing condition!
So let's not pretend that it's Govt Death Panels vs no death panels. That's NOT a choice we have.
The choice we have is: Do we want Government Death Panels, or Death Panels from Blue Cross Blue Shield and UnitedHealthGroup. The CEO of UHG makes $50M to $100M per year. He does it by cutting costs. He cuts cost by increasing revenue (insurance rates) and by reducing costs (often by denying care). the more care he denies, the more money he makes! Profit!
Private businesses really look out for their customers, ya know. Just like MFGlobal and Goldman Sachs.
Anyway: Government Death Panels will suck. Just like Private Corporation Death Panels. Pick which is worse, and stop pretending we have Health Care nirvana now that is being encroached upon by Evil Mama Government.
I am always wholly puzzled by people who do not understand we already do fully "ration" health care, that the decisions are made by joint medical-insurance-institutional decision boards or "panels" as it were, and that this is how it always fucking will be, given that not everyone's body can make it to live to 100 you insane self-absorbed baby boomer mutherfuckers.,..
Unless or until we do devolve to the point where it literally is, who has the biggest fistful of dollars get's first in line for the organ donor list.
yes, I know...
Absolutely genius comment.
No, the Death Panel will opt for painkillers in your case.
Isn't this just a big distraction? Getting doubleteamed by the Red/Blue Turdpolish Patrol.
the global economic asphyxiation is accelerating at an increasing rate.
this Novemeber will mark the strangest Presidential election in US history.
Pity the guy who wins and has to deal with massive defaults and a collapsed currency. Wait. It will all be Bush's fault for all eternity.
Santelli is wrong only in that referendums should occur within the framework of a set of founding principles, averting a tyranny of the majority. hence, why we have (had) a Constitution. if 51% of the people decide that a certain 49% should be executed, is that acceptable as long as we voted on it?
what the SC did today was affirm that there are literally no limits on what Congress can do - as long as its under the guise of their taxing power. a taxing power that is somehow allowed to provide for disparate treatment across the citizenry, and punishable by imprisonment. which means, in essence, the SC just allowed for the taxing power as a middleman to tyranny. because Congress can now mandate that you jog 10 miles a day, and if you don't you get "taxed" an un-payable $1M, and if you can't come up with that $1M you get jailed. which simply boils down to the power to jail you for not jogging 10 miles a day.
so sure, referendums are great. as long as 51% of the public doesn't abuse their power absent any constraints on that power. that would never happen....
Screw Obamacare. We really just need a patient bill of rights:
EVERYONE IS CHARGED THE SAME FEES, REGARDLESS OF RACE, CREED, OR INSURANCE PROVIDER
---- As in, stop the practice of charging $40 for a medicaid patient, $60 for a blue cross patient, and $400 for an uninsured walk in (plus whatever else they can stick you with). Will never happen though, as the government and insurance companies are the beneficiaries of this scam.
EVERYONE MUST BE TOLD IN ADVANCE WHAT SOMETHING WILL COST, AND MUST SIGN FOR ANY ADDITIONS
------Geez, like, ya mean, when you get your car fixed ?
Why should I have to pay for birth control for gay married immigrants who want to also worship at a mosque they are tithing to help build with tax dollars I DID NOT agree to? And dson;t get me on how I HAVE TO PAY for their kids!
I give the mandate tax about 6 months before Congress realizes that it is too low and finds they have to raise it to $2500 or 5% of gross income whichever is greater.
yep. once the camel's nose is under the tent its already too late. remember that our original income tax was 1%.
UK income tax was first levied as 'temporary measure' in the time of the Crimean war.
There are no temporary Govt.programs.
Sign up now and get a free ACA cost containment bag !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just put it over your head and expensive Health Care gets reduced to a simple survivor's benefit.
(edit: more exclamation marks)
I'd rather get a spiderman towel for signing up.
That's the survivor's benefit !
.
so when Obama trounces Romney in November and the public has spoken, will you guys drop this bullshit topic? Talk about rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic..pathetic.
Your dementia is showing.
SCOTUS TARDS
Well, JPM & Citi is down 4% and silver is on sale...hope to see some non healthcare related news soon, ants is in ma pants.
This is probably a back door way to pay for Medicare for all of the Boomers. Who of course they will pull the plug on as soon as they get Sick.
This boomer expects nothing from a bankrupt gov't but massive defaults.
"I think it's more than appropriate that this will be, in my opinion, part of the referendum in November as to whether the public wants this or not."
Ah yes, democratic populism at its scummiest, because it's far better to be robbed blind by 10 of your neighbors than 1 of your rulers.
Do not forget about all of the Health Care costs on many services. Including the sale of your Home. It will add an additional I think 3.8% you have to pay a closing.
Already on Medicare, I only have to worry about the death panels deciding I don't warrant some future treatment.
On the other hand, my 20-something son and all his friends are screwed in more ways than I can count as long as this abomination is in place.
Sometimes there are advantages to being old.
who gives a fuck what rick santelli says? his opinion is about as important to me peter north or lil wayne. the fact that conservative idiots pay attention to rick santelli (a CNBC personality who walks around the CBOE/CME asking questions and making inferences that an infant with Down syndrome could render more judiciously) is a compelling testament to how fucked up republicans are. Maybe Ron Insana or Tyler Mathisen can slurp some ceo's nuts and talk about how the business environment isn't good for companies to repatriate their profits. I'm tired of this shit. I have some news for Santelli and his minions: there will not be a mormon in office come November.
why do you hate kids with Downs syndrome?
hilarious....i agree Santelli is an empty suit.
didn't we vote on this already? i think the douche in chief made it pretty clear that this was a priority in 2008
Where is the downgrade.
Dear Rick,
The referendum already happened, four years ago, with health care reform as a central position in the President's platform.
Obama won. Odds are he'll win again.
Pretty sure that's how the Constitution set up the system here. Maybe ask the Supremes while you're over there ranting.
Maybe stick to bond market commentary...just a suggestion....
PS Yes the law is a massive insurance industry giveaway and the cost control provisions are highly unlikely to be effective. But the majority of Americans support some kind of universal coverage as well as trying to fix the problems in the health care system, preferably in calm and bipartisan manner. K then.
Rick Santelli.
I am sorry to say that you thoughts are dead wrong. A majority of Americans are too damn stupid to realize what happened today. The Federal Goverment has know created the power to control eveyones life through Mandates enforced by "Taxes" for failure to comply.
June 28, 2012. The day Cheif Justice John Roberts stick a knife in the heart of Freedom.
Does anyone remember the SCOTUS decision concerning Eminent Domain?
GAG: Guns, Ammo and Gold. Be prepared.
wake up. i've heard this arguement about 650 times today.
rewarding/punishing behavior through tax policy is as old as governments themselves.
Romney really doesn't have the heart for this fight to overturn.
Santelli is a fool. Quoting Thomas Jefferson? That scumbag?
...
I'll go look for a video.... ciao
Excerpts from: My Experiences With National Healthcare by teacher Linda Schrock Taylor in Manchester, England, who says chances are the care has grown far worse since I left it 32 years ago (written July 28, 2009):
“I was put into a waiting room that reminded me of a picture I had seen of suffering in mental hospitals, circa 1880 or so. The “room” was about the size of a small town gymnasium, high ceiling as well, but cold and unappealing. It was full--standing room only--of people with all kinds of emergency conditions waiting endlessly to be seen by a nurse, let alone a doctor….
“The local doctors’ offices provided more shocking experiences. The service was faster but the treatments were nonexistent---unless prescriptions were all that one wanted. In fact, I do not recall ever leaving the office without a prescription, even when the decisions were highly suspect. Pills were passed out like candy. Public Pacifiers…
“The first visit, however, was shocking and confusing. I had phoned to schedule an appointment then upon reporting in, I was given a 12-inch colored piece of the material used for name signs in offices. Mine happened to be red with a number cut out instead of a name. Say…34. I went to the waiting room where I joined a large group of people, all of whom were staring at a large wooden board with about 6 colored lights on it. I observed carefully so as to see what would be expected when my turn arrived. A buzzer went off, the blue light began flashing, and someone stood to ask those around him if they had blue with a number lower than his own. No one responded, so he left the room. On it went with yellow, green, orange lights flashing but then the red light flashed. Thus far, the herd had trained me well, so I stood and asked: “Does anyone have Red before number 34?” No one did, so I left the room…but that was as far as I had been trained. Someone finally noticed my confusion and told me that I must go down a long hall and report to the….RED DOOR. But of course! Dr. Red Door. Names were not important. Just procedures.
“The appointments were five minutes in length and the patient sat in a chair in front of the doctor’s desk. The doctor was never the same person on a subsequent visit, except for one time when I specifically requested that I see the same doctor when I returned. I was given the appointment, but not with good humor. Later, during the winter, I could barely breathe because of bronchitis. I boldly asked the doctor if he would please listen to my lungs to check if I might have pneumonia. My request threw him quite off-guard and he abruptly said, ‘You ‘ave to go to ‘ospital for something like that!’ I could not believe my ears and I expressed my displeasure with a ‘health care’ system that had no graduations of care between ‘Speak with doctor in a bank-like setting’ and ’Be admitted to hospital’!
“With reluctance and displeasure, he arose, dug around to find a stethoscope, and listened to my lungs. That was the only time that a national health doctor ever actually physically touched me…”
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/opinion/955-linda-schrock-taylor/1533-my-experiences-with-national-healthcare
Calling our elections a referendum is a joke. Not after corporates are people equivalency decision made by the SCOTUS. It all comes down to who had the corporate blessings in the form of money. Right now Romney is winning that battle!
Just wait until the HC and Insurance industry dough now kicks in for Obama. Cha-ching!
Romney-care. Check!
Next up? Amnesty for illegals........ JUST LIKE REAGAN.
Why is it dumb-ass Republicans cannot recognize these "horrible ideas" when their own people come up with them?
long superficial left/right dem/repub thought-bubble blathering.
Meanwhile, back in the real economy....
Whatever happened to the process of AMENDING the constitution? Politicians and lying-fraud-dictators, such as Obama, do not dare because they have neither respect for of fear of the people who they illegetimately claim to "rule" ... (We should have even less respect for the complicit slimeballs who cover their noses and do the bidding of the lying-fraud-dictator ... and his master(s)).
The Supremes deserve no respect. They clearly measured the political situation and took the path of least resistance. They have summarily and completely abdicated their responsibility with the misnamed "Patriot Act", the "NDAA", "REX85", Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, the Bailout and on and on and on.
By abidating the responsibility of their position and becoming politcal pawns they have enabled a lying-fraud-dictator and a complicit and corrupt congress to create a war against the people and rights they had sworn to serve and defend when accepting their office.... all weasel wording aside ... and they know the thin legal pretense they hide behind is simply weasel wording that they use to assuage their collective guilty conscience.
Well it's back to the algorithms and formulas now that we have the official rule. United sits pretty good through all of this as they have the former HHS executive who created most of the reform provisions sitting on their payroll now, so what'does that mean? More modeling on everyone's part with predictive algoirhtmic formulas for one.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2012/06/healthcare-reform-laws-standtime-...
Well it's back to the algorithms and formulas now that we have the official rule. United sits pretty good through all of this as they have the former HHS executive who created most of the reform provisions sitting on their payroll now, so what'does that mean? More modeling on everyone's part with predictive algoirhtmic formulas for one.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2012/06/healthcare-reform-laws-standtime-...
The only referendom that counts is going to DC with a .50 cal sniper rifle
Mc D workers are part-time with no insurance if you have say two part time jobs with enough income you pay for your own health care plus the tax-fine if you don't buy insurance. It's a tax on middle to low income people that don't have employee insuarnce to lower cost for corporations , employee purchased insurance and wealthier people in the pool .
obama wins. i hate to be nasty but. obama wins you dummys!!!! the people that don't have health insurance and make minimum wage or have welfare don't pay taxes. try to collect. try. try. it's a further tax on people that had jobs that were outsourced or insource by h1b visas. obama is about destroying american people. his constituency is the ignorant, uneducated (i will say not his fault) welfare fed state. he works for the banks and macdonalds and coca cola. the dumber the better, the more the better
The Arizona and healthcare decisions were political decisions; they were not constitutional --not even close. As someone said, this is the modern-day Dred Scott decision, i.e., the shame of the court that will be reversed.
On Arizona the conclusion was that no state has any power over the federal government; and on Obamacare that the central government has the right to take any private property that it desires without any restraint.
On Dred Scott: “A proslavery majority on the court ruled that a slave in a free state did not become free by residing in a state or territory that did not recognize slavery. The court ruled that Missouri law governed the case and that the Scotts remained slaves.”
And, btw, how much courage does it take when you have a life appointment to lie?
Wat a collectivist nonsense. You can chose your healyh care, let your neigbor chose his healthcare and don't send the feds on his ass, if he does not do what you would like him to do. The guns of state prod the tax slave in the direction of the health care industry.
Gotta love the the collective blind whine of this board--people are more important ideas my friends. Ungrateful/Lucky healthy people everywhere are up in arms about ideas and edge cases, while unlucky sick people everywhere are relieved that the real circumstances of their lives will improve.
Do the unlucky sick Americans give a fuck about some kid starving in Africa? The sick and old had their life, they need to let go.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/417439_418794771497...
"It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication, and a government bureaucracy to administer it.” – Thomas Sowell.
Thanks. I liked that.
Obamacare is an outragous attempt to foist a Soviet-style socialist health care system onto the American public. Romney recognizes the fact that in this country good health should NOT be a birth-right - it is a PRIVILEGE - and a privilege that should only be available to those who are hardworking, wealthy, and smart enough to pay for their own insurance.
We should not try and emulate socialist hell-holes like Australia, Canada or Sweden where every dead-beat can access free public health systems regardless of whether they've saved up to pay for it or not.
This nation got to be great through people standing on their own two feet and taking responsibility for their own health and wellbeing. Not one dime of our taxes should go towards supporting socialized free health care for those too lazy, poor, old, disabled or stupid to look after themselves.
Romney’s pledge to abolish Obamacare is only a start. He also needs to commit to ending all other existing socialist programs in this country including Medicare, VA, Medicaid and Social Security. These government-run programs are just pandering to people's laziness and lack of personal responsibility.
Medicare in particular is the worst socialist program ever introduced in this country (by another lefty Dem President - Lyndon Johnson in 1965). It's a single payer government run program funded from taxes paid by you and me - to support old sick people we don't even know!
Back in the '60s the GOP fought long and hard to prevent this communistic system becoming law. As Ronald Reagan said at the time the Dems were trying to force this thing through "If you and I don’t stop Medicare then one of these days we are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America when men were free.”
George HW Bush Described Medicare in 1964 as “socialized medicine at its worst” and. Same with Barry Goldwater who said: "Having given our pensioners their medical care in kind, why not food baskets, why not public housing accommodations, why not vacation resorts, why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink.”
Social Security is another communist program that needs to be abolished right now. The U.S. Social Security program is the largest government program in the world and the single greatest expenditure in the federal budget, accounting for 20.8% of the total budget?! And what is 'social security' ? It’s nothing but a program to take hard-earned money from the likes of you and me to allow lazy old people who didn't bother to save for their retirement during their working years to live high on the hog.
Nothing worse than creating programs like this which give lazy people a sense of entitlement.
So good on Romney for committing to the repeal of Obamacare. Now I just hope he goes that necessary step further and commits to the unwinding the other socialist and communistical atrocities such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicade and VA - which are also totally unconstitutional and anti-American.