A day after Amazon revealed its plans to cut prices at Whole Foods Market following the completion of its takeover on Monday – an announcement that obliterated billions of dollars’ worth of food suppliers and rival grocers’ market capitalization - Bloomberg is reporting that WFM’s rivals are mulling an incredibly difficult choice: Whether to follow suit and cut prices in one of the few segments of the food market that’s actually growing, or hold the line against their high-tech rival and risk being undercut into oblivion.
Price reductions could draw in new customers to brick-and-mortar locations. However, already thin profit margins and technological barriers make lowering prices a risky proposition.
“…the price reductions could draw in curious new shoppers and present brick-and-mortar retailers with a dilemma. Do they follow suit and see their margins squeezed, or hold fast and risk sacrificing sales in one of the few areas of the food industry that’s actually growing?”
Greg Portell, a partner at consulting firm A.T. Kearney, said that it will be difficult for rivals to match Amazon’s “dynamic” pricing model.
“Changing prices across the board is not a simple process for most retailers,” said Greg Portell, a partner at consulting firm A.T. Kearney. “It takes time and labor. What Amazon has done is bring a level of dynamic pricing that will have to be matched by anybody selling food. It will disrupt the way the sector works.”
Amazon’s decision to slash prices of organic food products marks a new chapter in the grocery price war, which had previously been fought over more mainstream products.
“Up until a couple of years ago, the grocery price war had largely been fought over mainstream products like soda, soup and cereal, leaving higher-end organics to compete on quality. Organic products still have fatter margins, giving Amazon more room to experiment on pricing.”
The e-commerce giant has another crucial advantage over its rivals: Its investors don’t expect it to turn a profit – at least not right away. This allows the company freedom to “tinker” with prices, according to Bloomberg.
“Amazon is less constrained by profit expectations thanks to a tech-industry ethos that values growth above everything. So it can tinker with the prices of organic eggs, almond butter and rotisserie chicken, experimenting with what gets customers to respond and then doubling down on those successful bets.”
Ken Harris, managing partner at Cadent Consulting Group, said that Amazon’s ability to bring “21st-century technology” to the neighborhood grocery will have a “profound” impact on the industry.
“When you think about Amazon’s dynamic pricing, it is taking a 21st-century technology and putting it in front of consumers in a new venue,” said Ken Harris, managing partner at Cadent Consulting Group. “Consumers have come to expect it in other places but not their neighborhood supermarket. So it’s profound, and other retailers have to take notice.”
Ironically, Amazon is using the same strategy against WFM’s competitors that they once used to undercut the organic foods pioneer. After WFM popularized organic foods in the US, Wal-Mart and other mainstream grocers started stocking similar items and selling them for less.
“For years, organic food was a niche category, but Whole Foods showed there was growing demand as it opened more than 400 stores across the country. Eventually, major chains like Wal-Mart and Kroger responded by stocking more organic items. U.S. consumers bought more organic fare than ever before in 2016, with sales increasing 8.4 percent to $47 billion and accounting for more than 5 percent of all food sales in the country, according to the Organic Trade Association.
But as organics became more widespread, the traditional supermarkets undercut Whole Foods on price, and the chain’s same-store sales have fallen for eight straight quarters as it struggled to respond. It introduced a new store format called 365 that offered less expensive items to attract younger, budget-conscious shoppers. But the declines continued, and the company had only opened a handful of 365 locations before Amazon pounced in mid-June.”
Another huge advantage for Amazon is that it can offer steep discounts to members of its Amazon Prime service. The company should have little trouble cross-selling to its dedicated Prime members because, according to Bloomberg, nearly two-thirds of WFM’s customers are already Prime subscribers.
“Amazon will speed those efforts by layering on discounts for Prime members, who are typically shopping at Whole Foods already. Nearly two-thirds of Whole Foods’ regular customers are Prime members, according to retail consultancy Magid.
“Whole Foods customers are very Amazon-savvy,” said Matt Sargent, Magid’s senior vice president of retail. “That’s a good thing but with this deal, Amazon bought the same customers it already had. So they have to expand beyond current Whole Foods customers by offering more value.” Whether Amazon can convert those value-seekers into long-term customers will be the challenge, Barthashus said.”
However, Amazon’s decision to slash prices so rapidly could backfire. The company could face scrutiny from regulators if it fails to keep its online and in-store pricing tags in sync.
“If the retail giant is unable to move quickly enough to adjust price tags in the store to reflect the discounts it’s advertising, the company could get called out by watchdogs and even fined by federal trade regulators, according to Cadent Consulting’s Harris.
“There are huge risks,” he said. And even with all this attention, Whole Foods is still a small player in the U.S. grocery market compared with Wal-Mart and Kroger, who together garner more than 30 percent of sales.”
Amazon said in a press release Thursday that "starting Monday, Whole Foods Market will offer lower prices on a selection of best-selling staples across its stores, with much more to come. Customers will enjoy lower prices on products like Whole Trade bananas, organic avocados, organic large brown eggs, organic responsibly-farmed salmon and tilapia, organic baby kale and baby lettuce, animal-welfare-rated 85% lean ground beef, creamy and crunchy almond butter, organic Gala and Fuji apples, organic rotisserie chicken, 365 Everyday Value organic butter, and much more."
After the announcement, shares of WFM rivals like Wal-Mart and Kroeger's tanked, along with shares of WFM's suppliers.
If Amazon's track record is any indication, even if its rivals resist cutting prices right away, they likely will be forced to in the near future, ushering more of the deflationary pressures that the Fed and academic economists hate so much.
Comments
The dems may be antifa but they sure aren't antitrust ;-)
Prices are lower at walmart...but I didn't shop there because of POOR SERVICE!Wlamart, locally anyway, has figured that out...hired a whole new crew of (somewhat) normal people that are stocking, cleaning and PROVIDING CUSTOMER SERVICE all day long...and I now shop walmart...A race to the bottom results in everyone losing.
In reply to The dems may be antifa but by RagaMuffin
The lack of customer service is not worth the savings.Provide great service at a reasonable price and you will have all the customers you seek. On the other hand, isn't capitalism supposed to experiment and find what works and what does not? I cannot fault Amazon. I fault all the others, who through the years merely copied what others are doing.Everyone so far has played it safe. That does not work when one or two players really start to innovate.
In reply to Prices are lower at by FireBrander
People buy necessities on pricePeople are brokeBrand loyalty is long goneNext question
In reply to The lack of customer service by ejmoosa
The most expensive grocery store in town is always super busy. On the weekends, they are so busy the employees park a mile away in a half empty strip mall and the store shuttles them to work in order to make more parking spots available for customers.The store is just an all around great experience...they have 20 check out lanes and if there are more than 2 people in line, they IMMEDIATELY open another checkout...they are the ONLY store in town that "gets it"...people do not want to stand in long lines to pay...amazing how NO ONE else gets that...
In reply to People buy necessities on by JRobby
global distributiion system, hypermarket, supermarket, inside malls ,etc... all this is dying at increasing pace. in europ they start to cut & bypass the distributors.french producers buy back the small supermaket, turn it as SCOP ( participative & cooperative societies)so no distributors, at all, directly, from group of producers, that organize themselve the market, to the customers. i can only tell you that this relocalisation of the food & agriculture is not apreciated in bruxelles & all huges distributing companies because, they start to loose money, prices are lower than actual distribution circuits, producers got better margins, customers got better products. a real scandal... end the FED, end the UE, end NATO.fuck the system.
In reply to The most expensive grocery by FireBrander
Too bad we cannot apply that model to health care.
In reply to global distributiion system, by Mr 9x19
If they slash prices twenty percent it'll still cost more than the supermarket. Maybe Bezos finally jumped the shark.
In reply to Too bad we cannot apply that by ejmoosa
Wow, heirloom tomatoes from Asia are marked down from $8/lb to $6, let me back up the truck.Sorry, but when organic locally grown tomatoes are still $3 at the local farmer's market, that's where my food money goes.
In reply to If they slash prices twenty by The_Juggernaut
What "town" is this ????
In reply to The most expensive grocery by FireBrander
Enjoy the lifestyle for now. When the armed bands show up the illusion will be over.
In reply to What "town" is this ???? by JRobby
Walmart was death to America's Main Street as the small independent shop owners one by one had to close their doors unable to compete with the reputed store bought by China.
Eventually even Sears started to closes its doors.
Once Amazon controls the food markets the way Walmart has dominated dry goods, you won't be allowed to eat if Amazon locks you out.
In reply to People buy necessities on by JRobby
The real blame falls upon central banks. Mom & Pop cannot compete with the recipients of ZIRP.
In reply to Walmart was death to by StarGate
I agree. I was just pointing out that people are broke, trying to make ends meet to feed their families. I have to expect a "Fight Club" reaction.Many small grocery stores packed in in the early 70s as the supermarkets came in. It's a cycle.
In reply to Walmart was death to by StarGate
The Amazon aquisition of Whole Foods is a complete stroke of genius. Here's why- 1) Whole Foods caters to all the people amazon wants to cater to. Those who have money, as evidenced by where they live, and who may want to utilize other amazon services online as well. 2) Amazon is turning into a world wide distribution machine. Grocery items are distribution intensive. Amazon can almost immediately create distribution efficiencies if they manage this right. End result is lower cost of operations to Whole Foods. 3) Amazon will put it's own pick up and drop off box 'centers' at each Whole Foods. (unmanned / automated package shipment and pick up areas) 4) It's all about Amazon Prime. Amazon Prime is their real profit center (not including AWS). The better the overall breadth of services Amazon 'wide' can offer, the more likely that any one individual can justify an Amazon Prime membership. Amazon will continue to increase it's offerings under the whole Amazon Prime system, potentially forever. As they do this they create more incentive for people to use their services and at the same time increasing their unit profit for each potential item offered as more people sign up for the Prime membership. It's a self reinforcing model. Kind of like Costco but now unlimited in size and scope. 5) They will now lower the price of food at whole foods as low as they possibly can and then somehow link it to Prime, creating incentives for people to become Prime members. 6) Amazon is creating an self reinforcing network eco system business model. 7) All other food / grocery companies should now be scared shitless, because they can not conceivably compete with any of this, unless they somehow create their own eco system through either aquisitions or alliances. Also, Amazon invests it's own excess capital into itself in order to create further value, to the point of making sure they use all their excess cash flow for this purpose and so as to not report a profit (and then pay taxes). You have to be pretty fucking confident in your team to do this. I can't really think of any other company that does this as their stated mission, other than maybe Berkshire Hathaway though even Berkshire reports some profits. It's crazy. And brilliant.
In reply to People buy necessities on by JRobby
They have 460 stores and cater to a very specific affluent (or at least aspiring to be) client. Kroger has about 3,900 stores and Walmart has about 11,800 and they cater to the masses. Do you really think lowering the price on Almond Butter and installing a post-office return location (for Amazon shipments only) is really going affect how 95% of the people in this country shop for groceries? And even if it does a little, what's the typical WFM customer going to think when the prices drop and the riffraff start showing up to squeeze the organic avocados? 8% off Kroger's market cap yesterday and 1/3 off since the deal was announced...I'm buying.
In reply to The Amazon aquisition of by Thought Processor
I agree Kroger seems to be a pretty well run operation. Different target market than Whole Foods though. I would imagine that if they get the Whole Foods aquisition to work for them (system wise) Amazon may then look for a mid tier player. As crazy as it sounds.
In reply to They have 460 stores and by Agent P
All "ism's" eventually fail and Capital"ism" is no exception; the Capitalists will, at some point, manufacture the rope they hang themselves with...
In reply to The lack of customer service by ejmoosa
Amazon will offer lower prices until they destroy a lot of the competition.Then the prices will rise.
In reply to Prices are lower at by FireBrander
and kkk nazi may be trumtita with alternate covfefe but they sure aren't antitrust
In reply to The dems may be antifa but by RagaMuffin
I wonder what the organic farmers and other producers who provide stock for Whole Foods think of being told they will have even smaller margins?Fuck me. When it comes to things like food, real resources are required to produce these things. The population is almost 8 BILLION, so there is plenty of demand, yet real resources are finite. Deflation? LMFAO!!!!! competition will simply go bankrupt. Where are the antitrust lawyers?
"real resources are finite"We are not anywhere near our capacity. 1 acre of land can produce 5 acres (or more) worth of food...if you enclose it, skip using dirt, and go with vertical, Hydroponic farming....you also get a MUCH longer growing season...possible year round.I've seen these setups at our State University...that is the future...no more tractors plowing up fields. They are also growing algae, that is turned into Bio-diesel, that is then used to heat the "farm" so they can grow tomato's in zero degree weather. A small wind turbine provides electricty for fans/lighting; 100% off the grid farm...
In reply to I wonder what the organic by LawsofPhysics
Bullshit. The energy required to reduce nitrogen alone is still a missing element in your equation. I have investigated all these approaches and others. YES, we can become more efficient, but that would mean enforcing an "agenda 21" model. Is that what you really want?
In reply to "real resources are by FireBrander
Dirt farming wastes incredible amouts of nitrogen; a shit load of your fertilizer runs off the property with the first heavy rain. Hydroponics allows for precise control of dramatically less nitrogen.The short of it is, yes, energy must be put into the system, but the amount of external energy needed is far less than a dirt system.If there is an insect or weed problem, they can be specificly targeted and precision eliminated...rather than the shot gun approach of dumping tons of chemicals over a massive field; much of which probably doesn't even need to be treated.Oh, I forgot...you need FAR, FAR less amounts of water which opens the door to farming in places where no one would dream of farming. Winter tomatos are shipped up from Mexico...no need for that shipping if we grow them here...look at the energy savings of eliminating that truck...MORE than offsets the required energy input of Hydroponic systems.
In reply to Bullshit. The energy by LawsofPhysics
Don't get angry. The MATH and the physics are what they are. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to reduce the element nitrogen to a form that plants can use, period. As I said, YES, aquaculture can be more efficient in delivering nutrients, but you still need to have the nutrients available, period. You are eating the nutirents OUTSIDE of the system, they need to be replaced. Put some legumes in the system and that will help (we did this and it helped but the RATE of biological nitrogen fixation is still just too slow). God you hippie-types are impossible to talk to because eveything offends you asshats. No wonder this hasn't taken off.
In reply to Dirt farming wastes by FireBrander
It hasn't "taken off" for the same reason a hosptital room is $5000 a night...Lobbying in DC.The farm lobby is right up there with the MIC and the Health lobby in terms of power...Hydroponic farming is a threat to a HUGE industrys' profits..it will not be adopted with open arms.Q. Which system produces more food?Q. Which system requires less energy input?Q. Which system doesn't flood our DRINKING WATER with nitrates?Q. Which system doesn't saturate our foods with poisons and weed killers?Q. Which system has the strongest lobby in DC?Q. Which system do we primarliy use?A. HydroponicsA. HydroponicsA. HydroponicsA. HydroponicsA. DirtA. Dirt
In reply to Don't get angry. The MATH by LawsofPhysics
I also got tired of eating so many beans (most user-friendly legume).Let me be clear motherfucker, fuck ALL the bullshit lobbies!Good luck!
In reply to It hasn't "taken off" for the by FireBrander
As a "professional" vegetable grower I have to disagree. On a very small scale hrydro is fine. To feed the country it is not. Sustainability is the key, and not some BS hippy-dippy version. Any food production reliant on electricity is not sustainable. Hydro uses a lot of juice to move that water.
Now before someone says.... I have a system and grow all the salad my family can eat..... well, that's great, but does not translate into large commercial production.
And dirt is the way all land based plants have always grown. Some how hydro and aqua are going to replace that and be better. The input costs are huge, I mean fucking astromical (I own 15K sq ft of heated/cooled/irrigated greenhouse, I should know). It the corn and soy which people do not even eat as food that dumps all the nitrates, toxins, etc... if you care for your soil (dirt is the stuff under your fingernails) you don't need to fertilize and spray they way big ag does.
In reply to It hasn't "taken off" for the by FireBrander
Wow. All those guys turning a good profit in Commercial Hydroponics are going to be disappointed to find out they're failing.
In reply to As a "professional" vegetable by NuckingFuts
Who are these people of which you speak? Do you know them? Where did their start up capital come from? Tax payers?
I know alteast 2 dozen growers and only one does hydro lettuce. If it were so great why wouldn't all be doing it? The one couple doing the lettuce wish they hadn't, the start up costs killed them.
I actually work in the veg business. I dumped an easy million into my operation and even debt free it is still a hard go.
In reply to Wow. All those guys turning a by shovelhead
Weed does not count
In reply to Who are these people of which by NuckingFuts
Take away all of the WELFARE money going to DIRT FARMERS and let's see how it then compares to Hydro...
In reply to Who are these people of which by NuckingFuts
Vegetable farms of my size get no "welfare". You have no idea about how this works. That money goes to corn/soy, not food people eat. Yes it's total bullshit I agree. I grow food.. they grow commodities.
In reply to Take away all of the WELFARE by FireBrander
HYdro is not ready to "feed the country"...but it can certainly grow into the job...if we let it..but that would negate the need for million dollar tractors...and a whole lot of other powerful interest groups "products"...If the Horse and Buggy industry had properly funded a lobby group, we'd still all ride horses to work because the "automobile industry isn't ready to move the country because of high costs"...
In reply to As a "professional" vegetable by NuckingFuts
Do you know the industry? Own a farm? Greenhouses? Created markets for these products? Even have a degree that is botany based?
Then believe what you want.
In reply to HYdro is not ready to "feed by FireBrander
Why are you guys arguing about the science of food? We have too much food and not enough quality food. If everyone just had their own garden this wouldn't be neccessary. If anything we need the price of food to go up so people will make better choices.
In reply to Don't get angry. The MATH by LawsofPhysics
No shit Sherlock.
I just grow it for people who do not have the time or ambition to do it themselves, and they pay handsomely for that.
In reply to Why are you guys arguing by Give us Stirli…
Why are you guys arguing about the science of food? We have too much food and not enough quality food. If everyone just had their own garden this wouldn't be neccessary. If anything we need the price of food to go up so people will make better choices.
In reply to Don't get angry. The MATH by LawsofPhysics
Same response as above
In reply to Why are you guys arguing by Give us Stirli…
Fish shit for me, LawsOfPhysics. Please blast away at aquaponics. Seriously, looking for your downside thoughts and conclusions.
In reply to Bullshit. The energy by LawsofPhysics
Start up cost, small margins, high maintenance, high utilities ( electric to move water and airate fish, propane for that "long season growing, etc...
All studied have been Grant funded, ei . Play money. Not real worl markets.
In reply to Fish shit for me, by Friedrich not Salma
Food growing and distribution are extremely difficult areas to compete in if you are a small player. Efficiencies for both increase substantially with scale. And people have a very difficult time differentiating between the end product of either mass grown or local grown. Therein lies the fundamental challenge. Whole Foods itself was originally based on trust. Trust that you could expect the food they offered to not be 'bad' for you. So there is a demand and or need here. Processed food scares the shit out of me. It scares the shit out of a lot of people. Add in chemicals and insecticides etc. and it's clear we are all being poisended on a daily basis. There is no doubt. I thnk for smaller growers the only way to compete is through alliances of some sort. Collectives and Co-Ops can be extremely effective if managed and lead well.
In reply to Start up cost, small margins, by NuckingFuts
A sane response from a smart person.
That is why we shifted to the CSA 'subscription' model. Retail to families and wholesale to other co-op type operations. Which was always our goal. WFM just dangled the right lure for o hook us on one crop for them. 99% of my deface of growing, food has passed from me to the consumer or one co-op
In reply to Food growing and by Thought Processor
Aquaponics is a closed loop and provides fish to eat and the fish poop water fertilizes the veggies before flowing back into the fish tanks.
In reply to "real resources are by FireBrander
How is it "closed" if you are eating the plants OUTSIDE of the greenhouse? Are you staying inside the greenhouse and pissing, shitting, and breathing in there (i.e. keeping all the nutients IN the loop)?If you are leaving the greenhouse with the plant material in your body, then it isn't "closed loop" you stupid fuck.
In reply to Aquaponics is a closed loop by Friedrich not Salma
I wasn't able to locate any research on how close to a closed loop you can get, but many aquaponics farmers use black soldier fly larvae to feed their fish. The BSFs can be self-harvesting from a compost pile that's breaking down food and plant wastes. Not a perfect system though as most avoid composting pathogen carrying wastes so some nutrients don't return to the system.
In reply to How is it "closed" if you are by LawsofPhysics
Jesus. You're a fucking idiot.No wonder you think in slogans.
In reply to How is it "closed" if you are by LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics, you said:
>I have investigated all these approaches and others.
I was hoping for something worth reading that pointed out the lesser-known negatives of aquaponics instead of a pedantic comment regarding the term closed loop but it doesn't appear you know about the topic. My mistake for thinking you weren't trolling the thread.
In reply to How is it "closed" if you are by LawsofPhysics
I've given away I don't know how many lbs. of veggies from my small hobby aquaponic setup. I keep the fish but I could easily give some away if I made a small upsize but I don't need more produce beds. I even grow the duckweed that supplement the fish food. I may build a 10X 12" greenhouse to keep rolling through the winter but that's another story.I wish I had discovered this years ago so I could make a commercial venture out of it. All the real work is in the learning and the front end setup with off the shelf parts and plumbing and the rest is pretty much automated.One of the pleasant surprises was once I was set up and had my water colonised with bacteria was that finding out a guy 2 towns away does a brisk local and internet business selling farm fish and fingerlings to stock ponds and lakes and aquaponics.This guy was a veritable treasure trove of info on fish biology and water quality who was more than happy to share his passion for fish. I had never even kept goldfish as a kid and all I knew about fish was yanking em out of the ocean and cleaning them.He saved me from wasting time and money on things you need to know but can't really find easily laid out in a step by step manner. Good fish food isnt free (except duckweed) but fot that small cost and seeds added with patience you can eat very well for pennies on the dollar.
In reply to "real resources are by FireBrander
Good for you, seriously. Well done.
But that does not translate to feeding a country. Have you ever done an accounting of all expenses Vs pounds of production vs market prices (wholesale)? Just curious
In reply to I've given away I don't know by shovelhead
Pagination