Trump Slams Door On Putin's Offer For Referendum In Eastern Ukraine

Perhaps Putin didn't get the memo that democratic referendums don't count unless the people can be counted on to vote "the right way"? And perhaps Trump is not actually doing Putin's bidding? 

A day after President Vladimir Putin told Russian diplomats in a closed door meeting that he set a proposal before Donald Trump during their Helsinki summit that a resolution to the crisis in eastern Ukraine could be reached by holding an internationally monitored referendum in contested separatist regions, the White House has for the first time acknowledged it.

In comments reported Friday by Bloomberg, a spokesman for the White House National Security Council indicated Trump has rejected the plan, saying "The administration is not considering supporting a referendum in the eastern Ukraine." 

“The Minsk Agreements are the process for resolving the conflict in the Donbas, and these agreements do not include any option for referendum,” the White House spokesman said in reference to the 2015 European-brokered truce deal which ultimately calls for full Ukrainian government restoration of control over the state border and throughout the conflict zone. And added, “Furthermore, to organize a so-called referendum in a part of Ukraine which is not under government control would have no legitimacy.”

Rebel coalitions in Donetsk and Luhansk held referendums on independence in May of 2014 which resulted in many towns coming under the control of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics; however the vote was rejected internationally with Kiev dismissing the move as a "farce". Kiev has pushed a compromise of offering the war-torn region some degree of autonomy while remaining under the Ukrainian state. 

Four years of fighting between pro-Russian separatists and Ukrainian government troops have resulted in over 10,000 people killed and more than one-and-a-half million displaced

Thus far, much of the policy content that is rumored to have been discussed between Trump and Putin during their two hour one-on-one session in Helsinki on Monday has been kept tightly under wraps, with more description of what was considered coming from the Russian side. 

On Thursday when news first broke of the proposal, which reportedly involved Putin agreeing not to publicly disclose the plan in order to give Trump time to consider it, The Hill summarized what little that could be gleaned as follows:

The proposal reportedly calls for a vote in separatist regions of the country that would allow the areas to decide their own status as a way to resolve the ongoing conflict in eastern Ukraine.

...Such a referendum would almost certainly face intense pushback from Kiev and the European Union, which remain supportive of the 2015 Minsk II agreement to halt the fighting in Ukraine's Donbas region.

It would also mark a change in Washington's position, which calls for Russia to live up to its commitments under the Minsk agreement.

Or we could translate this more simply as given that some three quarters of the Donbas region identify Russian as their main language, and with Western media reports long acknowledging the multiple polls suggesting the majority in the region reject the EU/US-backed government in Kiev, a referendum on the future of the contested remains unconscionable for the Western alliance.

On Thursday Trump tweeted that his meeting with Putin was “a great success” and separately cited Ukraine among the areas discussed, but without providing details. Since Monday's summit, Putin has warned of “serious risks of an escalation” in fighting in eastern Ukraine while also telling Russian state television he and Trump discussed “new ideas about ways of regulating the conflict in Ukraine”. 

“We agreed to work on this for now on the expert level. In my view, this is a positive element of movement forward,” Putin said.

Kiev has this week also been seeking clarification of what was discussed at Helsinki. Western and NATO leaders have shown heightened concern over potential future White House policy after last month Trump reportedly told fellow G7 leaders that the Crimean peninsula was part of Russia “because everyone there speaks Russian” (in reference to Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea).

Though President Trump has been hounded by accusations of "treason" and "collusion" more than ever before in the wake of his controversial closed door meeting with his Russian counterpart, NPR on Friday seems to have deflated one of the key 'Russiagate' talking points bolstering this narrative.

In a rare moment of honest mainstream media commentary in response to Trump's telling reporters on Wednesday, "There's never been a president as tough on Russia as I have been," NPR pointed out an obvious truth that's long been missing in the mainstream

That might sound like hyperbole, but in this case, there's actually some basis for the president's boast.

"When you actually look at the substance of what this administration has done, not the rhetoric but the substance, this administration has been much tougher on Russia than any in the post-Cold War era," said Daniel Vajdich, senior fellow at the Atlantic Council.

This of course includes Trump's consistently ramping up arms sales to Ukraine, increased sanctions on Russia, and aggressively lobbying NATO member countries to increase defense spending, among other measures. 

Comments

MoreSun Manthong Sat, 07/21/2018 - 00:41 Permalink

The zog (deep state) is not near as concerned with China as they are with Russia. So-called israel & China just launched a brilliant propaganda campaign to introduce the jews and the land of milk (death) & honey (destruction) to China with aims to endear its populace with such an undying admiration and kinship that the jew deep state need not worry. 

It is being beamed into all China homes and they plan to repeat it continually. It's a joint effort and has the backing of prominent Chinese and so-called israelis providing an invite for the Chinese to enjoy their delusions.

Russia on the other hand has an elected leader that kicked out some big fish jew oligarchs some years ago. He is also bringing back the Christian Orthodox Church (remember jews are anti-Christs). Putin is not the coziest of friends with the zog.

But, he is proving to be a Friend of The Republic of The United States of America. We share a kinship with the true Russian peoples. He is clearly not a friend of the jew supremacist deep state that has a stranglehold on this country since Dec. 23, 1913. And, the jew deep state is no friend of the citizenry of this nation- (((they))) are the enemy of all good people.

 Get it-Read it: "The Controversy of Zion" By Douglas Reed

In reply to by Manthong

wildbad Joe Trader Sat, 07/21/2018 - 02:41 Permalink

Eastern states would join Russia in a heartbeat.95% russia speaking.  The Donbas including Crimea have been a part of Russia since Catherine (horse) the Great and when Ukrain was declared and independent region by Kruschev it was still part of the Soviet Union.  It was only granted independent country status in 1991 after USSR fell into the sea and that was done with the unlimited agreement that Crimea was "leased to Russia indefinitely.  Otherwise the independence would never have been ratified.

Crimea is Russia's black sea port and Russia's right to that was never questioned until the Soros / Obama / NATO sponsored coup d' etat released the radicals who threatened to extinguish all russian language speaking people from Ukraine.  The newly formed government offered them no protection and intead sent troops to take that area.

The locals resisted and Vlad annexed Crimea after hold a referendum of the inhabitants who voted overwhelmingly to attach their fate to mother Russia.

That is how it went down

In reply to by Joe Trader

giovanni_f wildbad Sat, 07/21/2018 - 04:05 Permalink

smart move from Putin. he never expected USoA to agree. but now he has s.th to point to when the Wests proposes a referendum in north syria. Eastern Ukraine will NEVER EVER go back to Ukraine. People in Donbass know they would be fair game for the Kiev Nazis.

same for proposing to the US to interrogate their 12 indicted in Russia against the concession to Russis to do the same with McFaul. US can only lose regardless if it says yes or no.

Russian 7D chess.

In reply to by wildbad

sabaj49 wildbad Sat, 07/21/2018 - 11:22 Permalink

it seems that the power hungary govts don't want the PEOPLE TO DECIDE their future

they have it all figured out

crimea is RUSSIAN as it has pretty much ALWAYS BEEN

and most of eastern ukraine is also

kiev PUPPETS of west no longer have say - and they keep out for fear of being outed and shot as traitors to mother ukraine

In reply to by wildbad

JSBach1 MoreSun Sat, 07/21/2018 - 01:32 Permalink

People should strongly consider if Trump is merely a side show actor hired to GIVE THE IMPRESSION that détente is really his objective. Take for instance his deeds: They are just about exclusive in their SUPPORT OF ISRAEL and ALL its desires -- not to mention his [Trump's] supporting staff, hires, and their track record to Israeli-first endeavors. Take also his connections -- and active support by them -- to propaganda arms like Fox News, Infowars, Breitbart, Rebel media, Brendon O'CONnell and their shills. Think long and hard at the likely possibility that you are being played once again by these subversive forces...

In reply to by MoreSun

MoreSun JSBach1 Sat, 07/21/2018 - 02:02 Permalink

Trump has always been surrounded by jews. You most likely are spot on. He appears to have a deep affection for the Republic, but has a controlling factor (jew supremacists) that holds him back. He seems to be a bull in the shute right before they open his gate with the rider on his back. In Trump's case (((They))) will never open his gate.

Yes, Breitbart, Fox (excepting Tucker), Rebel Media, and Drudge are all in the bucket for the jew supremacists.

I believe Brendon after spending 3 years locked up due to his video of exposing jew supremacism, is possibly overdoing it to the point of being a distraction. But, as St Paul said "even if they are presenting Christ in contention, at least he is being preached". You do have to give him credit for the 3 years in prison for the cause.

In reply to by JSBach1

JSBach1 MoreSun Sat, 07/21/2018 - 02:09 Permalink

We will agree on some points (usually the case as I agreed with janus' take to your defense in a recent thread), but Brendon has been turned as I have myself in direct conversations with him on another site both refuted and put a case forth upon his turn to the dark side. If I were you, I would take another look at Brendon -- perhaps I am mistaken, but I usually have a good knack for these "characters".

Carry on otherwise.

In reply to by MoreSun

Betrayed JSBach1 Sat, 07/21/2018 - 02:28 Permalink

Spot on.

Trumptards like Libtards righteously believe their team is right and the other is evil. They can’t conceive the that both sides are run by psychopathic Zionists playing them to destroy and feed off what’s left of this country. These are Satanic parasites. 

Their M.O. is  divide and conquer and those who perceive are sickened by the evil. This country is eating itself.

In reply to by JSBach1

land_of_the_few Betrayed Sat, 07/21/2018 - 03:55 Permalink

The Donbass and Crimea are being intentionally given away by the various Galicia/Lvov fascist groups to Russia, by way of heavily discriminating aginst them and offing a few civilians now and then by mortaring to make sure they stay angry.

They know if will be easy to get them to secede permanently, and they don't care.

The objective is to draw the US and Russia into a real war possibly global in which they imagine Russia will be the only country damaged. No one ever said they were adequately intelligent.

Clearly these groups do not care at all about actual Ukrainians. After all they are from Galicia/Lvov, not real Ukraine.

In reply to by Betrayed

07564111 Petrodollar Sy… Fri, 07/20/2018 - 23:09 Permalink

Because Jizrael is fucked without access to more land and water, that's why they need either Syria and Lebanon or Ukraine

The Jerusalem Post - Israel News

Racing toward disaster: Israel's unsustainable population bomb

https://www.jpost.com/Jerusalem-Report/Racing-toward-disaster-Israels-u…

Vickie "Nuland" Kagan ;) do you see the joke ? >> New Land <<

Open your eyes.

In reply to by Petrodollar Sy…

Element 07564111 Sat, 07/21/2018 - 00:25 Permalink

Does the rusky steppe dweller get any dumber than this? Israel wants to annex Ukraine, huh? Despite needing to overcome Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Turkey, Black Sea, Russia, plus Ukraine itself--to do it?

Wouldn't it be easier to just take over Saudi Arabia? Or South Africa? Why not take over Libya instead? It's already defenseless and oil rich! Or Greece? Those slobs might welcome another sucker. Or else Italy, a sort of reverse 72 AD scenario? Then they could bomb the Vatican and piss all over christianity as well.

 

But Ukraine, huh? ... kinda doubtin' it.

In reply to by 07564111

Victor999 Element Sat, 07/21/2018 - 02:17 Permalink

Ukraine is the Khazars' true historical home (they are certainly not Semitic, but European in origin).  And they want it back as a cushion against the possibility that someday Israel can no longer support its masses (lack of water, arable land, etc.) and/or the Arabs finally get up the nerve to wipe them out.

In reply to by Element

nmewn Winston Churchill Fri, 07/20/2018 - 21:52 Permalink

As NPR (of all fucking Alinsky Nuuuz sources) grudgingly admits, he's done more to sanction Russian oligarchs than Obama ever did or anyone else while at the same time he is accused of being in bed with Putin?

Something doesn't fit and it's the politics of it.

Trump has recognized Putin as the "strong leader" he is but he doesn't have to like his KGB pedigree or the things Putin has to do/put up with to stay in power. 

He's smarter than you think, maybe not as erudite as you may like...but smarter than. And at the end of the day (gaming it out) who do you think will win between oligarchs or Putin in that mish mash of crony-socialism-serfdom-capitalism they call Russia?

My money's on St.Pooty when the chips are down ;-)

In reply to by Winston Churchill

07564111 nmewn Fri, 07/20/2018 - 22:32 Permalink

My money's on St.Pooty when the chips are down ;-)

I will help you :D

Putin will win against the 'unfriendly oligarchs ' because he will have the help of the ' friendly oligarchs '

To better understand the dynamics of the situation see the names on this list and their relationships to the members of team Putin and the Stavka.

 

http://www.yaplakal.com/forum2/topic1816428.html

 

you are welcome ;-)

 

In reply to by nmewn

nmewn 07564111 Fri, 07/20/2018 - 22:49 Permalink

"Unfriendly oligarchs"...lol...dude!...man, you ain't gonna make no prog-friends in America talkin like that! You gotta keep it on the complete down-low to get any street cred around here, like not mentioning Soros, Weinstein, Steyer, Bloomberg etal as being oligarchs "unfriendly" or otherwise ;-)

In reply to by 07564111

Element nmewn Sat, 07/21/2018 - 00:40 Permalink

Not to mention that he's basically called queen mutti, and aligned crony bitches, an enemy of the USA, for knowingly long-term lining pootie's pockets with douchemarks, even after his repeated aggressions in the Northern Black Sea region.

 

Hardly pro-pootie sentiments from Trump. Frankly, Trump has just executed some shockingly effective tactics and moves, very sharp witted and a dynamic approach in my view. He's good, no doubt about it, but a pity he can't get a grip on his ego while he's doing it, as that's where he keeps f'ing things up.

In reply to by nmewn

Tiger Rocks Dale Winston Churchill Fri, 07/20/2018 - 21:56 Permalink

To paraphrase Trump's remarks in regard to a question asked at the Putin-Trump summit about the situation in Syria by a reporter. "I have to ask BiBi, Israel is America's greatest Ally, there is no greater friend of Israel than America".   I found this disturbing, it was a mish mash of groveling, no specificity, no constructive words other than Israel is really awesome. I'm not quite sure where the downvotes come from.  I just simply stated the truth. 

In reply to by Winston Churchill

Tiger Rocks Dale nmewn Fri, 07/20/2018 - 22:14 Permalink

No not quite, I'm referring to the last Trump - Putin summit.  That was a perfect opportunity for Trump to say something like "We are going to eradicate terrorists together in Syria, Semper Fi" or something to that degree which Americans support, we've been programmed to hate Islamic Terrorists. He used that opportunity to defer that decision making process to Israel.  To be quite frank about it, we have no independent American run foreign policy.      

In reply to by nmewn