Turkey's Agony Explodes As Trump Doubles Steel, Aluminum Tariffs

Just when you thought Turkey's moment of agony couldn't get any worse, it did moments ago when watching the collapse of the Turkish Lira and sensing perhaps that Erdogan's end is near, President Donald Trump blindsided the NATO member state with a tweet, announcing that he is doubling Turkey's steel and aluminum tariffs to 50% and 20%, respectively. Why? Because as he said "Our relations with Turkey are not good at this time!"

I have just authorized a doubling of Tariffs on Steel and Aluminum with respect to Turkey as their currency, the Turkish Lira, slides rapidly downward against our very strong Dollar! Aluminum will now be 20% and Steel 50%. Our relations with Turkey are not good at this time!

Trump's ask: the release of Pastor Brunson, which Erdogan has so far staunchly refused to agree to.

In response, the Turkish Lira which already had its worst day ever, just plunged even more with the USDTRY surging as high as 6.3839, an all time high.

Meanwhile, the TUR ETF is crashing, and is down 15% in the premarket.



Moving and Grooving tmosley Fri, 08/10/2018 - 12:04 Permalink

'No true scotsman'


That was a new one for me, so I looked it up. To save someone else, here's a quick summary (there's more to it) -

No true Scotsman or appeal to purity is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample. Wikipedia




In reply to by tmosley

Colonel Shitze… resistedliving Fri, 08/10/2018 - 19:25 Permalink

I wondered if that’s what Uchtdorf meant. They worship that guy, though not even close to reality re; how they view him. But there’s an invisible brick wall holding many LDS back from researching their Church, despite verifiable, confirmable sources from their own library. Good people, good families, extremely brainwashed. Utterly unconscious of that last fact 

In reply to by resistedliving

rf80412 Uchtdorf Fri, 08/10/2018 - 11:23 Permalink

Your customers can't afford to care: they buy the cheapest product that can do the job, even when they themselves consider this to be sub-optimal.  But people believe that the premium paid for goods and services that reflect "values" should be zero.

Or else they don't know what questions to ask ... or they know there'd be no point in asking, since you're going to use the most profitable steel no matter what, and tell them to take a hike rather than demanding that you make less money.

So they, like many others, hope to use the government to change the game completely.

In reply to by Uchtdorf

rf80412 SoDamnMad Fri, 08/10/2018 - 11:47 Permalink

Did they use the cheap Chinese drywall?

Or did they buy a house or buy drywalling service from a business that used cheap Chinese drywall to pad their profit margin?

Did they have any reason to suspect that the homebuilder or contractor would cheap out and use something that would turn the house into a health hazard?

Did the homebuilder or contractor have any reason to think that the Chinese would knowingly manufacture a hazardous version of something as ordinary and omnipresent as drywall?

Capitalism flourishes when buyers and sellers can trust each other, and the kind of reflexive paranoia that would have to become the new normal when everyone believes that corners are made to be cut would lead to all kinds of extra transaction costs ... including transaction costs imposed by the state in response to public pressure.  It only gets worse when producers who are good at lying gain a competitive advantage over those who document the safety of their product.

The mantra of "competition" assumes that nobody is cheating.  Create a world where cheating is just another form of competition - where toxic drywall made by slaves is what homebuilders prefer to use because they can sell a more profitable product to ignorant customers - and everybody suffers.  Not least when moral behavior just becomes a luxury good that most people would prefer to buy but cannot.

In reply to by SoDamnMad

OH10DESERTER BaBaBouy Fri, 08/10/2018 - 09:55 Permalink

Turkeys main import was rebar and wire rod and it's usually the smaller diameters that American mills dont want to run.  I've got people in my supply chain shutting down certain machines and going to steel alternatives.

In reply to by BaBaBouy

bigkahuna matermaker Fri, 08/10/2018 - 10:08 Permalink

Good luck to the Syrians and the Kurds. Especially the Kurds (My Brothers!).

I have been angry with erdo since his family was supporting / funding (at the behest of the US Dept of State - but that is another problem for us directly) the isis deadly psyop by purchasing stolen oil from them and reselling it - at extreme profit for himself.

If they drag his ass out, he has more than earned it. Erdo is one big league evil SOB.

In reply to by matermaker

OverTheHedge bigkahuna Fri, 08/10/2018 - 10:38 Permalink

Does he not have one or two US skeletons that he could bring out, whilst shouting "Suprise!"?

No one in that neck of the woods comes out well, but Turkey is particularly involved with ISIS, and if it can be shown to be at the insistence of the US....

Could this be part of the downfall of the previous administration? Am I overthinking this?


In reply to by bigkahuna

bigkahuna OverTheHedge Fri, 08/10/2018 - 13:06 Permalink

You are right - he has some nasty dept of state and likely exec as well as DoD skeletons in his closet.

I have prayed that he would get some degree of redemption by effectively busting them out. I would almost be thankful to the sociopath if he successfully busted out his American handlers. I cannot look past the death and destruction he helped support in Iraq and Syria though. Just fuming mad about that.

In reply to by OverTheHedge

curbjob tmosley Fri, 08/10/2018 - 09:53 Permalink

I don't give a fuck about Erdogan or Trump ... how does any of this help the average joe in the US, or Turkey for that matter ?

Do you think grinding the Turks face in the dirt is going to make them more secular ?

Doubling down is what people do when they don't understand complexity ... and, much like where previous administrations were blind to complexity, in this case there's going to be blow back.


In reply to by tmosley

tmosley curbjob Fri, 08/10/2018 - 10:15 Permalink

> how does any of this help the average joe in the US

Better trade deals help US manufacturing.

>Turkey for that matter ?

Turks will benefit from Erdogan losing power as he is a totalitarian AND a fuckwit.

>Do you think grinding the Turks face in the dirt is going to make them more secular ?

Don't know don't care. I'd be perfectly content if every Turk died today.

>Doubling down is what people do when they don't understand complexity

It is what they do when they are bluffing, or when they know they are going to win. Erdogan is an example of the former, Trump an example of the latter.

>in this case there's going to be blow back.

That is a concern, but it is unlikely to be of any consequence in this case. We aren't dropping bombs on them. No dead children turning fathers into terrorists, etc. They just get poorer until they starve, then they march in the streets and throw down their government. Hopefully they get a better one next time.

In reply to by curbjob

cheech_wizard tmosley Fri, 08/10/2018 - 10:25 Permalink

>Don't know don't care. I'd be perfectly content if every Turk died today.

You really do have to judge ethnicities by their ability to commit genocide. (i.e. blindly following their leaders to go out and kill, kill, kill...)

The Turks are some piece of work.


My own ancestors were caught up in the Istanbul Pogrom.

Standard Disclaimer: So yeah, fuck 'em.


In reply to by tmosley

nmewn cheech_wizard Fri, 08/10/2018 - 11:20 Permalink

Yep, I didn't have any ancestors that I know of slaughtered or their houses burned down or their wives & daughters raped and killed or infants thrown into the air and caught on the tips of their spears for sport but the Turk practice of using the bashi-bazouk as an ancillary military force to terrorize populations puts them in a special place in hell as far as I'm concerned. 


In reply to by cheech_wizard

jmack curbjob Fri, 08/10/2018 - 10:39 Permalink

     lol,  blow back?    like the chinese military going from a world war II army to a technologically more advanced than the US in 20 years?  that kind of blow back?   Or maybe you mean blowback, like a 40 billion dollar trade deficit with China?


      Want to talk about complexity, why dont you play a little thought exercise.  What if the world went into total trade freezes.  What would happen in america if no retailer or manufacturer could use chinese labor?  What if they could not use any foreign labor and all items sold in america had to be manufactured in america, what would happen?


    wages would rise.  the use of robots would increase while jobs stayed pegged at full employment.  businesses would work closely with education outfits to retrain workers to do the crucial things they needed done.  The press would play it as armageddon on steroids.

In reply to by curbjob