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On 1099-Tax Reporting Requirements For Half Ounce Gold Transactions
A week ago we published a guest post from David Galland of Casey's Daily Dispatch in which Galland presented his view on what the consequences of the upcoming introduction of a 1099-filing requirement for gold transactions over $600 would be. "Can’t a person just keep their gold purchases under $600? With the price
of gold heading higher, that will increasingly require buying
smaller-denomination bullion coins – which typically carry a higher
premium. More importantly, a large body of case law gives the government
license to charge people for “structuring” – i.e., taking active
measures to get around a particular law. Thus, two $500 gold purchases
could be construed as active evasion and carry additional penalties." The topic is suddenly red hot once again, this time with ABC finally getting on the bandwagon.
Starting Jan. 1, 2012, Form 1099s will become a means of reporting to the Internal Revenue Service the purchases of all goods and services by small businesses and self-employed people that exceed $600 during a calendar year. Precious metals such as coins and bullion fall into this category and coin dealers have been among those most rankled by the change.
This provision, intended to mine what the IRS deems a vast reservoir of uncollected income tax, was included in the health care legislation ostensibly as a way to pay for it. The tax code tweak is expected to raise $17 billion over the next 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.
Pat Heller, who owns Liberty Coin Service in Lansing, Mich., deals with around 1,000 customers every week. Many are individuals looking to protect wealth in an uncertain economy, he said, while others are dealers like him.
With spot market prices for gold at nearly $1,200 an ounce, Heller estimates that he'll be filling out between 10,000 and 20,000 tax forms per year after the new law takes effect.
"I'll have to hire two full-time people just to track all this stuff, which cuts into my profitability," he said.
An issue that combines gold coins, the Obama health care law and the IRS is bound to stir passions. Indeed, trading in gold coins and bars has surged since the financial crisis unfolded and Obama took office, metal dealers said.
The sudden interest into gold tax reporting requirement is occurring as gold selling companies are increasingly being put under a regulatory microscope:
The recently revealed investigation by California authorities into consumer complaints against Goldline International, which has used Beck as a pitchman, and Superior Gold Group (which has not) has put a spotlight on what one liberal leaning politician, Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., calls the "unholy alliance" between gold coin sellers, such as Goldline, and conservative talk personalities, such as Beck.
Beck, who through his spokesman, Matt Hiltzik, declined to comment for this story, and Goldline marketers portray gold coins as a better alternative to owning bullion in the event that the U.S. government ever decides, as it did under FDR in 1933, to make it illegal for private citizens to own physical gold. At that time, the U.S. dollar was still pegged to the price of gold; the gold standard was abandoned during the Nixon administration.
Several legal responses have already been drafted in opposition to the proposed "healthcare" law:
Rep. Daniel Lungren, R-Calif., has introduced legislation to repeal the section of the health care bill that would trigger the new tax reporting requirement because he says it's a burden on small businesses.
"Large corporations have whole divisions to handle such transaction paperwork but for a small business, which doesn't have the manpower, this is yet another brick on their back," Lungren said in a statement e-mailed to ABCNews.com. "Everyone agrees that small businesses are job creators and the engine which drives the American economy. I am dumfounded that this Administration is doing all it can to make it more difficult for businesses to succeed rather than doing all it can to help them grow."
Yet while the escalating surveillance over the gold market can not infuse one with confidence that gold transactions will not be increasingly regulated in the future, as David Galland pointed out last week, the implications are more substantial than just in regulating the gold market:
The implications of this move transcend just the precious metals.
Rather, this is a deliberate step in the direction of implementing a VAT
– once the government has everyone reporting essentially every
transaction, taking the next step is a snap..
And for those that may have missed it, here is David's previous conclusion:
I hold out little hope that any of these attempts at repeal will succeed. The Democrats know this is their Maginot Line. If Obamacare unwinds, then their already dismal chances of holding power after the November elections become dark, indeed. Further, the latest polls show that the health care legislation is gaining popularity and is now approaching a majority. As time passes and November approaches, I think the legislation’s popularity will grow as more and more people decide they want something approaching “free” medical, a want that becomes ever more acute as the economy struggles and unemployment continues to rise.
In other words, deep political trenches are being dug on the battlefield of nationalized health care – and the Democrats hold the political high ground, making a retreat unlikely.
Back on the specific issue of setting the stage for a VAT, even politicians on the Republicrat side of the aisle are talking about the need for a national sales tax. Get ready for it, it’s coming.
Meanwhile, if you are a physical-gold investor in these United States and would like to prepare… a few thoughts:
- Use dips in the gold price to top
off your portfolio before the 2012 implementation date.- Document
your purchases so that, should you ever be dragged in to explain the
source of funds you used to buy your gold in a subsequent sale, once the
regulation is in place, you have a ready answer.- Consider
opening a safe deposit box at a reputable Canadian bank, then make
occasional gold buying/storage trips up north. I suspect that the
availability of Canadian safe deposit boxes will become scarce well
before 2012 rolls around.
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You can run but you cannot hide.
Next stop for this train is Surveillance Station.
This must include ETF's too.
ETF's buy and sell (supposedly) physical holdings that are not delivered, but bought and sold none the less.
That is an excellent point Swamp - so that would be the brokerage firm's responsibility to create the 1099, correct?
One more time:
Gold is MONEY.
Money goes where it is treated best.
If they try and punitively tax gold, it will flee the country.
Trying to control gold this way is a no-go.
Europe has already figured this out.
"More importantly, a large body of case law gives the government license to charge people for “structuring” – i.e., taking active measures to get around a particular law."
Well it looks like I have nothing to worry about because I don't structure my coins.
I stack them.
Silver, bitchez!!!
Gully Foyle
I think I've finally figured out why you cut and paste long articles under your ID with little to no commentary. Because it's becoming clearer by the day that you're nearly incoherent and you're attempting to cover it up by using the well crafted words of others. For some reason you've taken a shine to me and you just can't avoid insulting me in some manner as often as you can. Sad really.
And others have noticed this bizarre behaviour as well. For example, the other day you did the same thing to me and this was the reply Marla and Me left for you, which of course you completely ignored. Grow up Gully and stop acting like a scorned 13 year old girl. And take that training bra off your head. It isn't funny.
Hey CD,
Thought you might like Martin Armstrong's latest missive on the collective conscience:
http://www.martinarmstrong.org/files/2010-The-Collective-Conscience-6-26-10.pdf
Enjoy!
And Yes, Gully, please give it a rest. It's getting old.
Thanks for the link.
I'm impressed that Armstrong could write about a subject so much better than I could with 80% less words. Christ, I'd be on chapter 3 by now. :>)
I liked Armstrongs point of view on the subject. It's always instructive to read other people's thoughts on a subject you think you know well. As long as I can elbow my ego to the side, I hope to continue to learn about myself and those around me.
Fewer, not less.
If you're going to pretend you're a cut above the average AP reporter, then learn the difference.
Not pretending and never claimed to be. Some people like what I write, some people hate it. Sounds like you're a hater.
CD - I have read many of your posts & have learned a great deal - thank you for all your efforts & insights as they are greatly appreciated - Please add me to the list of 'Some people' - All the best!
we half to pass the bill before we can see whats in it
classic
nwskii,
Does that give you a clue?.
That the Congress(Dems), even Pelosi, and Reid, really, had very little idea what is in the Bills...............the Congress did not put them together..........no part of the Legislative body really did(save Pelosi, and Reid) but JUST to a degree.(This is but ONE reason why the Bills HAD TO BE IMPLEMENTED quickly), and no time given for reading, much less dissection/ digestion...............I liken it to RAPE.
I have pulled out of the banking system all together. The grey market is a wonderful thing.
Yup.
They want us all to be prisoners for life in this financial hell they have created.
We'll just have to see about that.
Amen to that.
great avatar! reminds me of the trunk monkey commercials.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee3L9BQQ4Gs
Thanks.
yo my man don't think for a minute ebay and craigs are "grey" but I'm sure you know better and it need'nt be said.
Ain't selling/bartering mine until after the collapse anyway.
There won't be an IRS to worry about at that point.
I am ex-SF, own plenty of firearms and am always carrying.
Anyone who wants to steal from me is welcome to try. Including you. No, especially you.
!
Bam_Man
Then you should understand just how human you are.
Why pretend to be Superman?
People like Bam-Man and other veterans like myself have a pretty decent grasp on how "human" we are. The superman thing went out the window in 04 for me personally. Took one RPG over my head and exploding 50 ft behind me to realize how "human" we all are. All he is saying is don't think you can come take our shit. Try and get close enough to burn my house down, I can put a 4 inch group with iron sights at 500 meters. If you get by that, I got three dogs, led by one pissed off german shepard that will rip your throat out just to please me.
I'm not superman, just prepared for you and your ilk.
Edit: YOU NEVER SMELLED BURNT FLESH THEN YOU FUCKING DICK!
Gee, I thought lame-boy was telling us he is formerly from San Francisco. If he were really a former Operator, he would have called himself an Operator.
Wow dick, I didn't know you were so interested in my history. Joined Marines in 2001. Moved to Bay Area in 2006 when I was honorably discharged. Quit job there in 2009 when plant I was working announced it was closing and moved to Yuma AZ to work on a base which I hate. I moved here because I have a house here.
I'm not an "operator" and never said I was. I don't have to make shit up. I was a lowly pouge who was in the wrong place at the wrong time with not enough stripes to not get "voulenteered" to play war. All I wanted was to fix aircraft, but I joined the Marines and knew what that meant. Believe it or not, I have done stuff during my time on earth that I have not posted on this web site, but thanks for caring.
- after extensive range time at Camp Lejeune, I call BULLSHIT on your 4 inch groups at 500 meters.
Perp alert! There's a few perps on this site I suspect are compensated to do their best to control the discussion to keep it as favorable as possible to TPTB.
Calling you out bitchez
Gully Foyle = paid hack
Don't feed the trolls folks. Just junk 'em & their posts will magically disappear...
OpSec, dude, now he knows you're an Internet commando, lol. I wouldn't expect a real SF type to tell anyone, especially those on an Internet message forum, what their background is. That leads me to believe you're not ex-SF, or maybe just the bottom of the barrel. Anyways, guns or no, you aren't going to hold out very long against 5-10 attackers who will also bring guns to the fight.
For the record, I was never sf, not even a grunt. I just got the whole "every Marine's a rifleman" thing jammed on me.
Gully,
"Fuck your guns I'll burn your house down."
For that you have to get real CLOSE................FEEL LUCKY?.
Do you feel lucky at 500-1000yds, or a mile?..........best know who your trying to steal from, and burn down, and their survellance capacity,and proficency........... *:>(
http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2010-custom-rifles/ga-precision-...
If I read this correctly, if you purchase the gold as an individual -- not via your business as an asset -- and you should be able to avoid the black helicopters and their gold taking mercenaries.
Wrong. The person selling you the coin is most likely a small business, LLC, etc. They have to report it, therefore you would be on record as the purchaser. If the file a 1099 saying they sold you gold, and you don't file a 1099 saying you bought gold then there is a discrepancy for the IRS to investigate.
The language cited in the post states "purchases by small businesses [etc.]", not sales. Where are you getting your facts about the "selling" of gold to individuals being recorded?
you are entirely correct Resi. But people don't want to hear facts - just want to believe every conspiracy theory thrown about by professional scaremongers. You start mentioning facts and they junk you.
Yea. I am new around here. I like the financial/economic view of the site, but some of the commenters are hilarious, in the unintentional way. It's like they get a little turned on by the idea of a total collapse of society, merely so they can say "I told you so." The equivalent of Bible thumping end-timers.
Which is precisely why it won't happen. You'll lead a life of grinding poverty and unhappiness in which a collapse would be a welcome relief. But there won't ever be any collapse, because living hells don't work that way.
You have it backwards. If a dealer purchases a coin from you, he pays you. This triggers the 1099. This is explained in the article.
ITG,
Been this way long as I can remember.................only difference is the dealers paperwork load, and small increment purchases can no longer be UNDER the Radar.(if $600.00)
Plus they know who HAS it...........or had it..LOL
But this is nothing new. It is a taxable event, regardless of whether it is a precious metal or a baseball card collection. The only difference now is the $$ amount at which a report must be made. To imply that this is legislation with the heinous purpose of the seizure of PM's is absurd.
Coin dealers have not been required to send 1099s before. This is new.
You are the only one implying anything about seizure. This is about increased taxation, as stated.
Let me clarify. I did mean to imply you were talking about Govt seizure, but people commenting in this thread.
Previously, Coin dealers did not have to report taxable events over a certain amount of $$. They were previously exempt? Really?
Yes, really. Do you consider it appropriate, natural or normal for such reporting to take place? A somewhat analogous governmental burden is that financial institutions must file SAR's on transactions in cash of $10,000.00 or more based on the policy that drug dealers and other so-called malevolent types deal in such transactions as a way to launder ill-gotten gains. The $600.00 threshold is absolutely new and a clear prelude to a VAT as well as a means to track transactions in PM's, among other tangibles, for the purpose of taxing capital gain. Again, why would it occur to you that coin dealers would have previously been required so to report?
Hey dumbo, if you, as an individual sell to a business, you get the 1099, because the business bought. Get it?
Unless they really changed the law, the shop will not issue a 1099 for selling you gold, but the onus will be on you to issue a 1099 for each person to whom you pay more than $600 per year. That means that selling multiple coins in multiple transactions simply aggregates until the end of the year, and you issue a 1099. Doom on the IRS to try to enforce this.
The shop will issue a 1099 to you if it purchases (pays you) more than $600 in any year. This will be easily enforceable on the poor shopowner, whio will have to document every penny of income.
Is it a dress rehearsal for a VAT? You bet. In Belgium, a patron is legally required to carry a restaurant receipt off premises so that the evil owner cannot scoop it up and destroy it and thereby pocket the VAT and evade the income taxes. 1099s for everybody is just uncle sugar's clumsy, ham-handed way to avoid having to go through all the register tapes and books manually by making all the big stuff go through a machine readable or electronic format.
.
resi,
Unless your paying cash,to a small dealer..........and small increments.
Your getting a recipt for what you purchase (or better be).
Also, unless I understand this incorrectly,it will be for buyers the same, as far as reporting,you will get a 1099R, when and only when you sell.
Then you list on Taxes, and show your cost, loss, or profit basis( the only added issue for indiviuals, is making sure you have a recipt).
When your Dealer sends the 1099R in, it's (as far as IRS rules go), the same as you recieved this as INCOME, and you must re-justify where you got the funds.
FU in & OUT.
See my above comment. I am not defending the new law, but to couch the law, as this post does, as specifically focused on .5 oz and greater gold transactions is fear-mongering.
That is what most people here care about.
Yes this is for all business transactions.
But the comments here regarding gold are perfectly applicable.
Why the fsck would we talk about buying and selling cows if that isn't what we do everyday?
Next up: Obama's "National Police Force", which will be "as strong as our own military." Hooray for fascism!! Who's excited about black hoods on their heads for owning gold and not holding up "Barack is god" signs
Obama must have begun his national police force on this board. Who else would junk it?
Obama's "National Police Force"...
The Ready Reserve force is another item which was authorized in the so-called healthcare law. Still waiting for that one to go mainstream.
No worries folks, as soon as Benny speaks at 2pm, DOW is heading +200 and Gold will follow. No need to worry about $600 transactions for too long. LOL
The opposite happened.
Buy striaght from the Swiss or Aussies. That might put a dent it the revenue of the US mint.
Why does everyone apply this to gold?
It's hard to buy a decent rifle or a high end pistol for under $600.
There will be a legal sale price and a street/blackmarket price now of gold, guns, and many things. And just like buying moonshine you will have to have references before the seller will even meet you.
You are right. This is for EVERYTHING. software, computers, office goods. Everything $600 and above. Gold coins are just a tiny part of the paper work this will generate.
Next up, hire 15,000,000 unemployed Americans to sort all the forms to bring down the unemployment rate.
+1. On my way home im going to buy a copy of "Brazil" before inflation pushes price above $600 and I have to file a 1099.
One more strike against the little business. Why would a large corporation transact with a little vendor now? All of their business will migrate to the ever larger transactions. Entire droves of people will be allocated for nothing more than make-work.
And as noted above a couple of times, one more step towards Big Brother.
What about gas stations? If you buy gas from the same station odds are you will easily reach $600/yr. That mean at some point they will need your name/address/etc for you to buy gas for your car so that by law you are sent the proper form.
A set of four good car tires is easily $600
Getting your car serviced could reach $600/yr
etc, etc.
I think that's backward.
If a small business purchases more than $600 of gas then that small business owner would have to issue a 1099 TO the gas station.
The person who does the buying must issue the 1099 to the person who did the selling.
buy you a mini 4x4 tractor with a good tiller attachment.. might as well get a potato hiller and cultivator while your at it. One day that will be a precious hunk of metal when the dollar don't buy shit and food cost a furtune.
Nah, I'm just doing barrels. Much easier.
http://www.preparednesspro.com/blog/tag/layered-potato-growing/
Can also be done w/ galvanized welded fabric (also known as hardware cloth, but with bigger openings, say, 2x4). Make a small ring, then when it's time to harvest you can knock it over, open it up, and shake out the dirt.
Useful for the leftovers from a roll of fencing if you use them for hot batch composting.
Thank you! That's a great tip!
Be careful with rubber. When I want to burn someones car down. I just throw a bit of lighter fluid on the tires and flame on.
Not that I burn people's car all the time. I just know how to get stuff done.
scatterbrains
I would trade that tractor for quarter horses. Tractor won't run with out fuel and replacement parts.
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2010/07/july-19-2010-rise-and-fall...
Thanks to globalization, we are much more dependent on trade than people were in the 1930s. The combination of credit drying up on the one hand and global trade wars on the other is an extreme threat to our vulnerable supply lines. Add to that the general upheaval created by severe economic disruption, which can easily lead to increased physical risks to transporting goods, and the longer term potential for much higher energy prices, and we could see an outright collapse of global trade in the approaching years.
The benefits of self-sufficiency will be seen in places where it still exists. So long as the whole supply chain is local, localized production means being able to maintain access to essential goods at a time when obtaining them from overseas may be difficult or impossible. It is currently more expensive, but the relative security it can provide can be priceless in a dangerous world. The ability to produce locally does not arise overnight however, especially where there are no stockpiles of components. In places where it has been lost, it will take time to regain. There is no time to lose.
We will be returning to a world of much greater diversity as we lose the homogenizing effect of trade. That means the existing disparities between areas will matter far more in the future than they have in the recent past. We will need to think again about the pros and cons of our local regions - what they can provide and what they cannot, and for how many people. Some areas will be in a great deal of trouble when they lose the ability to compensate for deficiencies through trade. As the global village ceases to exist, the world will once again be a very large and variable place.
"I would trade that tractor for quarter horses. Tractor won't run with out fuel and replacement parts."
You can still run 'em on alcohol!
Oh, and we have an early 50's John Deere AR that still functions just fine, thanks. We just used it on Sunday (Gramps showing off a bit for the Grandson). Of course, we have had to have the wherewithal to make our own repairs... not sure how the i-plod demographic will fare.
Regards
Any internal-combustion powered equipment -- tractors, cars, generators etc -- that contain no computer chips or other electronics, and can be repaired by a mechanically inclined person with a good set of tools, might become very valuable someday.
Dope and Gold dude, a brother ain't got time to be meltin all that metal and making his own Bling.
FUBO
O'Brien: What are your feelings towards Big Brother?
Winston Smith: I hate him.
O'Brien: You must love him. It is not enough to obey him. You must love him.
BEFORE THE LAW stands a doorkeeper. To this doorkeeper there comes a man from the country and prays for admittance to the Law. But the doorkeeper says that he cannot grant admittance at the moment. The man thinks it over and then asks if he will be allowed in later. "It is possible," says the doorkeeper, "but not at the moment." Since the gate stands open, as usual, and the doorkeeper steps to one side, the man stoops to peer through the gateway into the interior. Observing that, the doorkeeper laughs and says: "If you are so drawn to it, just try to go in despite my veto. But take note: I am powerful. And I am only the least of the doorkeepers. From hall to hall there is one doorkeeper after another, each more powerful than the last. The third doorkeeper is already so terrible that even I cannot bear to look at him." These are difficulties the man from the country has not expected; the Law, he thinks, should surely be accessible at all times and to everyone, but as he now takes a closer look at the doorkeeper in his fur coat, with his big sharp nose and long, thin, black Tartar beard, he decides that it is better to wait until he gets permission to enter. The doorkeeper gives him a stool and lets him sit down at one side of the door. There he sits for days and years. He makes many attempts to be admitted, and wearies the doorkeeper by his importunity. The doorkeeper frequently has little interviews with him, asking him questions about his home and many other things, but the questions are put indifferently, as great lords put them, and always finish with the statement that he cannot be let in yet. The man, who has furnished himself with many things for his journey, sacrifices all he has, however valuable, to bribe the doorkeeper. The doorkeeper accepts everything, but always with the remark: "I am only taking it to keep you from thinking you have omitted anything." During these many years the man fixes his attention almost continuously on the doorkeeper. He forgets the other doorkeepers, and this first one seems to him the sole obstacle preventing access to the Law. He curses his bad luck, in his early years boldly and loudly; later, as he grows old, he only grumbles to himself. He becomes childish, and since in his yearlong contemplation of the doorkeeper he has come to know even the fleas in his fur collar, he begs the fleas as well to help him and to change the doorkeeper’s mind. At length his eyesight begins to fail, and he does not know whether the world is really darker or whether his eyes are only deceiving him. Yet in his darkness he is now aware of a radiance that streams inextinguishably from the gateway of the Law. Now he has not very long to live. Before he dies, all his experiences in these long years gather themselves in his head to one point, a question he has not yet asked the doorkeeper. He waves him nearer, since he can no longer raise his stiffening body. The doorkeeper has to bend low toward him, for the difference in height between them has altered much to the man’s disadvantage. "What do you want to know now?" asks the doorkeeper; "you are insatiable." "Everyone strives to reach the Law," says the man, "so how does it happen that for all these many years no one but myself has ever begged for admittance?" The doorkeeper recognizes that the man has reached his end, and, to let his failing senses catch the words, roars in his ear: "No one else could ever be admitted here, since this gate was made only for you. I am now going to shut it."
good.
More fuel for an underground economy, we become more Greek each day....
I'm going to buy gold from overseas
They can take their 1099s and shove 'em up their collective ass.
Should see a big gold buying binge into year end then, it seems.
this is all bullshit. 1099's are required to be filed by business for the things they buy, not sell. If I buy from a coin dealer, they do not and will not be required to file a 1099 for that transaction. Only if they buy from me would they be required to file. Just another piece of scaremongering coming out of the gold bull camps and from conspiracy nuts that is doing a major disservice to the public.
Read the article and you won't get junked so much. If the dealer BUYS from you, that is a 1099. Then you have to report the sale. Do you understand that you are taxed on a gain when you sell something?
yes, that is exactly what I said. Dealer buys from me = 1099. Dealer sells to me - no 1099.
People here are thinking that if they buy from a dealer, there is a 1099, which is not the case.
Dealers also buy from each other, very often. Dealer to dealer - 1099 for both.
More paperwork to process to satisfy the IRS overlord. It's not so much about the individual purchasers as it is (or should be) about the death of another round of small businesses.
Actually, Brian, my accountant warned me of this a few months back. As it stands now, all businesses, including gold dealers, will be required to 1099 their customers and suppliers of goods and services. It is an absolute FUBAR clusterfuck that very few people understand at this point.
Ultimately, it looks like a gigantic intrusion of the federal government into every single business transaction. Preparation for a VAT? Perhaps. More government regulation of private sector activity? Absolutely!
Now what will happen when one takes delivery of a COMEX 100 oz contract ? First there's no gold for delivery, so secondly we're gonna cash you out at a premium and thirdly we're gonna nail you with a 1099, for even thinking of trying to get your hands on any of our gold...
First post BTW. Just happy to be here...
Where are your guns now bitches?
Uncle Sugar in your pocket and ain't nowhere to hide.
What a strange person.
Certainly 'Strange' is understating it. I marvel at your reserve.
Regards
Use of a credit card to make purchases does not require a 1099 reporting, under any conditions apparently. Let's see if that part makes it into the bill. A credit card company bail out bill? I guess the credit card paper trail is enough to quench the surveillance thirst of TPTB.
@Rocky
The IRS already has access to all credit card transactions. If they want to dedicate the resources (or write some fancy software) they could cross index every purchase with a name and SSAN.
Rogerwilco
I read some kid on REDDIT anguishing over the fact the only job he could find was with the IRS.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Obama-Govt-is-hiring-nearly-8...
Obama: Govt. is hiring nearly 800 new IRS agents to enforce tax codePresident Barack Obama vowed Monday to "detect and pursue" American tax evaders and go after their offshore tax shelters.
http://dailycaller.com/2010/03/22/irs-looking-to-hiring-thousands-of-arm...
July 21, 2010 IRS looking to hire thousands of tax agents to enforce health care lawsTop IRS officials have been working with Democrats on Capitol Hill to determine how the agency will enforce President Obama’s new health care law. Republican lawmakers estimate the legislation will require the hiring of many thousands of new tax enforcement agents.
While it’s still not known exactly how many will be hired, here’s what’s clear: Under the new law, the IRS is required to fine taxpayers thousands of dollars if they do not purchase health insurance. In order for the government to enforce compliance, tax authorities will need information, for the first time, about people’s health care. Collecting that data will require more IRS personnel.
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0721/nsa-112-acres-parking-spaces/
HUGE WASHINGTON POST EXPOSE: NSA HAS GOTTEN SO BIG, AREA AROUND IT HAS 112 ACRES OF PARKING SPACESFrom the road, it's impossible to tell how large the NSA has become, even though its buildings occupy 6.3 million square feet - about the size of the Pentagon - and are surrounded by 112 acres of parking spaces. As massive as that might seem, documents indicate that the NSA is only going to get bigger: 10,000 more workers over the next 15 years; $2 billion to pay for just the first phase of expansion; an overall increase in size that will bring its building space throughout the Fort Meade cluster to nearly 14 million square feet.
Rog,
Yeah, and ATM, and Debit................
If it's Electronic your in the MATRIX..............
You Betcha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For those who haven't seen this.......
http://www.activistpost.com/2010/07/ten-ways-we-are-being-tracked-traced.html
I know! And GM even advertises that they can shut down your vehicle. For retrieving your stolen car, of course. Yep.
That gives me an idea.
I should sell Gold under the cover of an escort service. That way every receipt I hand out for Gold coins and bullion will say "CD's Escort Service" which shouldn't bother the IRS. After all, even those agents buy hookers and surf tranny porn, so nothing to see here, move along. :>)
maybe elliot spitzer would be your ninth client???
LOL
Old client number 9 can be my sole client if he has enough fiat.
And I'm sure the black-market/street price will be very reasonable, with no risk premiums of 500%, or anything crazy like that. And the federal government would never punish gold "hoarders" with a 90% excise tax, nah, they'll just wave you through with a big smile.
You either leave the system (i.e. emigrate), or you can try to live by its rules. I don't see any way to sit on the sidelines and pretend they won't notice.
“Bless us and splash us, my preciousss!”
"Goldline marketers portray gold coins as a better alternative to owning bullion in the event that the U.S. government ever decides, as it did under FDR in 1933, to make it illegal for private citizens to own physical gold."
LOL. Spend 15 minutes researching on the internet before your first purchase and you'll be ready for that one. This must be aimed at the same chumps who never read their mortgage documents.
drwells,
This was nothing but a HIT job on Beck..........Goldline is not my dealer, since I do not play homeys games,any dealer pushing Numi's/Semi's first, is not where you want to do BIDNESS..............and due diligence is required on any purchase!.
If you get screwed,(not thru fraud), then shame on you.
Any adult, knows buying PM's, that are, or are not Numismatic/Semi Num, should be smart enough to know they are getting gouged,paying a premium on the price over real value.....it's called Capitalism.
There is zero diference between this and a Car Dealer, trying to make as much profit off a deal as possible...........
Or, buying Stocks, w/ a PE ratio,that is so far off, it's ludicrous,but an individual does so any way.
Hey, it's their money.
Correct. The "smart money" and the "dumb money" folks exist in the stock market as well as the precious metals community. Dumb money buys numismatic coins. Smart money doesn't have any metal if the call to confiscate goes out. Dumb money uses a credit or debit card to buy coins.
Nearly all "money" is credit now anyway. This will ensure there exists no form of value which does not fall under the command and control of our monetary masters. In sum, the final stages of destroying anything of value, after which only opinions of certain people will be valuable, and your opinion does not count.
The harder they try to squeeze taxes, the more they push people to the grey/black market. History shows that the more authoritarian the government, the larger the black market.
North Korea bitches! They sure didn't like it when Kim revalued their currency...
Nearly all "money" is credit now anyway.
I assume you are talking about legal tender and not lawful money.
I cannot believe people did,........er' sorry, sheeple, would not have caught onto that fact like a rock upside Yo HAed.
Even folks here have made statements, because they do not KNOW the rules.
Under 10k in cash,but CLOSE,taken out over EVEN a year, in 2k+/- increments qualify, your Bank teller you may love, even if you have had an account there for 20yrs, if you make unusual Deposits(cash esp), or Unusual W/D's, can TURN you in to Da Boyeez.
If they investigate ( Audit) you, and they , or YOU cannot come up with good answers, and recipts, you can be charged for Structuring, and your assets seized........Your Teller you love, get's 25% of any proceeds.
Want to remove funds, do it all at once.............none of their business.(just be prepared ALL the time to justify, w/hard copies).
THE RICO ACT, has been used for so many purposes not related to the act, it's sickening.
Doing it incrementally,( w/ any appearance of Structuring) can spell trouble.
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers."
Ayn Rand
CR - i've been looking for that specific quote (i've badly paraphrased it often) for a good while.
tnx.
maybe i'll needlepoint it in my prison cell...
I really did LOL
I hear needlepoint is very relaxing BTW. But nothing was said about doing it while relaxing in prison.
Needlepoint in prison! Now that is FUNNY.
No @#$%^&* way they are going to give needlepoint to inmates. Light-brite, maybe...
Calc,
Yup...................
Ignorance of the Law, is no excuse.
Everyone in America, that's alive,except for infants/kids..........are guilty of breaking some inane Law.
I am married to Law Enforcement. She says we all break a law when we wake up every morning before we even get to scratch our balls.
I can't stand it when SHE calls them OUR BALLS!
Does this 1099 requirement apply to things like furniture, automobiles,
boats, and all the other stuff people sell to one another?
Dollar,
No, not unless your a Dealer/Pawn Shop, etc.........( the way it reads).
Right now, your are supposed to report ANY income and profit on sales of anything..............just no 1099R is required.........for individuals.
In the future, we will all live underground in a Socialist paradise.
http://memegenerator.net/ProletariatMoleRat/ImageMacro/1743109/ProletariatMoleRat-Proletariat-Mole-Rat.jpg
You can't kill someone or burn their house down, just because they have gold!
Because GOLD is known to be easy to store or hide! Bandits, buy your metal detectors now!
That gold will probably be 6 feet deep a mile or so away from the property when you come around.
Stick to Craigslist. I would not even trust ebay with thier PayPal or credit card payment options.
This will only open up a larger underground market where those wishing to sell and acquire do so in cash and in person. Bartering also works fine under these circumstances.
Paypal will be required to report all transactions over $600 in a year under the electronic payments reporting.
There ya go.
when I spend a few rounds of metal as in lead, do I have to report it before I reload? Silver bullets would apply here...
ok - so what if I go to the coin shop and agree to overpay $1200 for some crappy not really rare coin and 'find' a gold bar on the sidewalk on the way out.. and the shop dealer just checks off his inventory as 'lost'
Black markets - here we come!
I'm first in line, behind you!
The IRS can levy fines and confiscate funds or property on the basis of accused wrongdoing, without waiting for a court ruling, or even going to court. If they do not take the case to court then it is up to the citizen to sue the IRS to get their funds or property back. And just to make everything fair, the IRS can pick which judge hears that lawsuit.
So in the example above, they will simply say "obviously you did not find that bar, you purchased it" and that is an end to the discussion.
Another good reason to get the fuck out of the PRISON that is the United States. Even third world countries have much more freedom than the US at this point. The US is heading straight towards a completely fascist and dictatorial regime ala Germany during WWII. Get the hell out while you can.
GG,
Amen...............
If Nov is not a landslide, hit it.
(and I am talking Veto Strength).
Hats of to Jim Rogers for seeing this one coming. Good bye uncle Sam, hello Singapore...
You gotta love it. "Healthcare" law being used to target gold owners. Makes you wonder what the hell else in buried in that turdpile. Like I said, this US govt. has completely lost its legitimacy, especially with stunts like these - stealthily passing draconian laws. The US govt. in power at this point in time is simply UNCONSTITUTIONAL - an illegal government, if you will.
GG,
Yes sir,and flaunts it daily.............basically spits in our faces.
Can't say we were not warned.Our leader, said the Const, & BOR's were Negative Rights.
Meaning it was defective, in that it only Mandated what the Gv't COULD NOT DO.
Whereas, He wanted it to be one of Positve Rights,giving the Gv't more power to DO the things it wanted.
"Alter or Abolish"
would this include jewelry? what about futures contracts? the foreign suppliers would be a great value. silver and platinum would be premium choices also.
http://covert2.wordpress.com
I'm with you completely Gordon, I had the exact same reaction when I read this. Why should I continue to participate in this farce? Seriously? Revolution is dangerous for my health (particularly as I have young kids to support), it'd be cheaper/easier just to move somewhere else. I'm at the "fuck it" stage as of right now.
This looks like it was designed to be a burden on small businesses. Large corporations are the ones with the money to hire lobbyist to write the laws and push to get them passed. They would love to remove competition by burdening small businesses and setting up barriers to entering the market. The more power they get, the easier it is to pass laws they want, the more self promoting laws they get passed the more power they get...
DOW chart update :
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
I don,t suppose that $600 will be going up with the Hyperinflation,people will be arrested at bootsales next for selling a 9ct charm and not declaring it.Exciting times ahead.Gold prohibition cometh .................................................................
Why would you ever 'sell' your Eagle. Why not just put it into circulation at its face value for a negotiated purchase of just about anything?
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc31.wais&start=2282115&SIZE=93048&TYPE=TEXT
Is it illegal to circulate the money? And allow it to price the purchase of the pile of 'stuff' involved?
The Eagle would be good in the United States.
The Euro Philharmonic in Austria (only). This coin is only 'their equivalent of legal tender' good in the country of issue.
The Maple in Canada.
Until there's none left. eg. Seller sells a $1200 couch for 1 oz eagle. Buyer has a couch, seller buries the eagle. Obviously $50 face value means nothing until everything worth spot gold is proportionally reduced to that $ price. Spot gold then becomes the USD proxy and if both are allowed to float, you're soon back to where you started. ie. inflation vs deflation of USD which is what you have today. So 1 oz=$50 at introduction and $50 buys you that same $1200 couch today. USD possibly inflates which means 1 oz = 1 couch but $100, $200, $2000 for instance. Could also work the other way around but no different to today.
More interestingly in this scenario is what will set the gold price? Oil, labour, RE, or just supply of gold? You must also consider moneys role globally. That was the one weakness of the gold standard in a globally expanding economy due to it's restrictive nature when pegged to a reserve currency. Those who had it also had the power. Those that didn't, ate shit.
You miss the point. Seller sells a $50 couch. Why would he bury it. Why wouldn't he buy a $50 used car?
Spot gold is the paper market, which is overleveraged, and not intended for delivery.
There is a Catch-22, conveniently built in to the legal structure of all western nations I have looked at. If/when you circulate at face, and face can be held to price the transaction as circulating money, all other extraction also get priced at the same time. Every country operates with a duality of money, the gold and the FIAT. The claim as far as I can read, is that they are equal.
In international settlements this already happens with the BIS as the king of the heap. Plenty of articles out there about how oil is partially settled in gold. Perhaps they have some truth content. Charles DeGaulle was certainly up on this in his time.
I agree that international settlements are a tricky business. Why exactly do you think all/most CBs of the world still hold gold as their reserves. I would hardly reckon these people as part of the unintelligent crowd. The ECB marks its reseves (which include gold) MTM every 3 months, but they don't link to gold.
However, on the ground, small people can also mark transactions to market, by circulating that which is officially stated to be "the equivalent speak" of legal tender. Legal tender, among other things is 'short-speak' for that which acceptable as payment of taxes.
So back to your face value question, how many FRN's would it cost to purchase a 1 oz eagle? Well the market today suggests $1200 due to, amongst other things, the amount of dollars floating around. Does your idea include vastly deflating the money supply by 95% to reduce an eagle back to $50? Or does your idea involve totally eliminating dollars and useing gold in it's place as a medium of trade. If so, then I guess you have history to contend with. This goes back to the gold standard where certificates (USD's) were used as claims redeemable for gold and later silver. I'm obviously not an advocate for a gold or silver standard for reasons already mentioned.
The reason why I say the eagle, or fractions of, will more likely be buried before a purchase of a used car or anything of relative value is because there's a trifecta working at the very least. One being gold, two being local currency (in this case the USD) and thirdly, items of intrinsic value whether it be oil, labor, RE, a couch or even a used car. If value can be transferred or substituted between these items, then hoarding any one of them will likely increase their value. Since everything other than gold may be considered a utility, then hoarding them, to some extent, destroys their capital utilization. With all things equal, same can be said about USD's being that hoarding them deflates their supply and/or velocity and raises the value of remaining notes in circulation.
My guess is that the Craigslist and BS folks I deal with when buying and selling gold won't really be into doing this whole 1099 thing.
You can not be forced by anyone to declare earnings on money, when you are merely preserving wealth from labor.
That's not how the IRS sees it.
On the topic of SAR's I switched banks when a snarky officer wouldn't answer my simple question about their SAR policy:
If I withdrew $9,000 from my account in cash and without even touching the pile of bills, and without even moving my feet, told the teller that I had changed my mind and I wanted to just deposit the cash back in the account, would that trigger a SAR? My impression of the moment was that it would. I don't want to do bidnis with that kind of mentality.
Welcome to the land of the used-to-be-free.
I wonder if the $600 is indexed. If not, once helicopter Benny cranks up the rotors on QE 2, McDonald's will be asking "Do you want a 1099 with that?" at the drive thru.
It won't be an option; plus, you'll have to show your IRS card for the transaction so it can be logged.
Prepare for the govt commercials: "digital money! So much more convenient than the other kind!"