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$24.5 Trillion In US National Debt, $144 Trillion In Unfunded Liabilities In... 2015
By now everyone has seen and played with the US debt clock via usdebtclock.org whereby anyone who so wishes, can find every little detail about America's current sad fiscal state. The fact that America currently has just under $14 trilllion in national debt should be no surprise to anyone who professes to having an even modest interest in the state of the US economy. Yet a new feature on the "debt clock", namely one which extrapolates future debt at current rates of advancement (instead of one based on the always completely inaccurate CBO estimates), and looks at US debt in the year 2015 will probably make many stop dead in the their tracks. If anyone thought that $14 trillion in 2010 debt is bad, just wait until we hit $24.5 trillion in total US national debt in 2015. And it gets even more surreal: total US Unfunded Liabilities are estimated at $144 trillion, roughly $1.2 million per taxpayer... Was that a pin dropping?
As Zero Hedge has long been predicting, we anticipate roughly $2 trillion in incremental debt per year. Surprisingly we are not far too off from where the "debt clock" sees US leverage in 5 years. At an estimated $24.5 trillion in federal debt, our $2 trillion per year run rate is spot on. Another thing that is spot on: our prediction that the US will need not one but two debt ceiling increases in 2011. And probably 6-8 over the next 5 years.
Some other observations for the US economy in 2015 simply assuming current conditions persist:
- Federal spending will be $3.3 trillion per year, and with federal revenue of $2.3 trillion (this number will be reduced as it also assumes $731 billion in payroll tax, a number which will likely be indefinitely reduced) the result is a budget deficit of $983.7 billion.
- Annual Medicare/Medicaid expenses will be just over $1 trillion
- US population: 326.8 million
- US workforce 131.3 million (and declining)
- Officially unemployed: 19.4 million
- Actual unemployed: 22.3 million
- State/Federal employees: 17.9 million
- People on SSN and other retirees: 72.6 million
And the most critical data:
- Food stamp recipients: 89.7 million
- Foreclosures: 2 million
- Social Security Liability: $19 trillion
- Medicare Liability: $99 trillion
- Total US Unfunded Liabilities: $144 trillion
- Gross Debt to GDP: 143%
Should one of the bolded predictions hit, the travails of Greek and Irish bondholders will be nothing compared to what those unlucky enough to be in possession of US debt in 2015 will have to go through.
h/t Justin
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Over a year ago i was an avid debt clock watcher. Until i caught it in a lie. 3 times i watched in fascinated expectation for the nines to line up only to find it cheats and reset itself. Numbers did not arrive at proper destination and i made a comment to ZH and denninger and wepollock at the time. No one believed me, it was not taken serious and i felt like a frustrated idiot.
At this point all numbers are suspect. Life itself has become a lie, a living twilight zone with an unwelcome ending.
All numbers are suspect indeed. I see these astronomic numbers, and it really doesn't matter whether we are a few trillion off or not.
We are so screwed. I think as things get worse, I will do as FOFOA says: lay low.
---
Hey ZH-ers!
I heard on the radio that there will be a Total Lunar Eclipse at 1:30 AM ET tonight (early Tues.). I do not know if that means it STARTS at 1:30 or TOTALITY starts at 1:30 AM.
Any of you who have never seen such an eclipse may want to consider staying up to see it.
http://earthsky.org/tonight/total-lunar-eclipse-for-the-americas-on-nigh...
It starts 1:15 from what I've read and it happens over a long period of time compared to solar eclipses. You can go outside and return inside a few times before it's over.
There's no dark side of the moon really...
I have only one comment on the debt clock. The alarm bell feature is not working. But at least I can watch it to know when to pop the new year champagne.
Cue Rainbowtrader with some obscure daily chart which all hinges on in 3....2....1...
lol
get your guns, gold and land!
Good luck on land. Might need the guns to keep Uncle Sugar and his sidekick State/Local govs from taking it back. Remember the taxes on lands will go up as they desperately try to grab revenue. Expect repos and selling land to foreigners to keep the ponzi going a little while longer. nothing will be off the table when the end draws ever closer.
Yea isnt it a great, free, country! You can 'OWN' your land, pay it off even...yet the govt still feels they have some right to 'tax' you on it and if you dont pay, throw you off 'your land' and seize it for themselves? Bunch of bullshit is what it all really is.
Good comments about the land. Admittedly, I still rent. Until the hollowed out economy changes for the better, who can even afford taxes.
you mean your landlord doesn't take taxes into account when deciding what to charge for rent?
You pay taxes through your rent. Or let me know the name of your landlord as I'd like to do business with him.
Sure if you remain there. But if one does not put their savings into land then the taxes won't be able to steal it. After all it's hard to move real estate from the grubby hands of the government. Hard assets one can move is very important.
The Texas Supreme Court issued a ruling in Cameron Appraisal District vs. Thora Rourk , Et. Al. in 2005, that property taxes were unconstitutional. Since then nothing has been done about this. My tax bill comes every October.
http://www.supreme.courts.state.tx.us/ebriefs/10/10001503.pdf
The case you linked refers to them deciding that personal property, in this case 'movable' property (trailer homes) wasn't considered improvements to the land and as such couldn't be taxes as such. It doesn't say anything about taxing the land itself.
http://www.supreme.courts.state.tx.us/Historical/2005/nov/041144.pdf
oops. my bad. try this on for size.
Waco proved that ownership don't mean shit to these people.
They also used tanks and delta force, there, against women and children. All those men , women and children killed by the BATF and the FBI and Delta Force and nobody so much as said a word about it, more or less. What does it take for someone in this country to get real mad, so mad they forget about their own little worlds for one minute and think outside their own circumstances and realize that sometimes something should be done, and that sometimes, yes sometimes, things are bigger than ourselves , damn it.
The David Koresh compound was raided because he was accused of sex crimes. Sex crimes create an almost immediate negative public reaction toward the accused and are impossible to defend in the media. A useful tool in the government playbook.
sex sells.
Don't forget that Noriega's private home was full of pornography of the worst kind.
It was interesting that the Pentagon release that allegation during the peak of our invasion of Panama.
Oh Noes!!! Noriega had the pornography!
BULLSHIT, the ATF was there in force on a gun crime allegation, the sex crimes came after they surrounded the compound, in other words that fuck up required a tug on the sheeps heartstrings for cover.. Apparently arresting him on his daily run outside the compound would not have worked, nope dynamic entry is the only way to arrest anybody. Check your facts..
I think it's because we were shocked and its hard to react to what we saw. The easiest thing was to make Koresh and his followers out to be "crazies" of some sort and make it a virtual suicide. I think it was too hard to stomach the idea that we did some sort of commie-fascist type raid. In a societal meltdown...most likely due to the issues represented in this article it will be interesting to see which way law enforcement breaks.
I think it was easy to paint them as crazy because they were fucking crazy.
crazy or not, but the last time I checked, a law enforcement agent telling a child on the phone 'nobody is going to hurt [him]' before sticking a tank muzzle through the wall and gassing a compound full of women and children is not necessary, neither is it legal.
It is legal because those that make the laws are the same ones that enforce them. Legal is not a fixed construct, rather it is whatever is convenient at the time.
Also, are you forgetting the guys who tried to climb on the compound's roof and got shot to hell? I saw that video too... The question is, what do you do with people who have killed police officers and are barricaded in a locale? You can either wait them out (freemen) or go in with guns blazing (waco). Point being, when you build a fortress and have stockpiles of illegal firearms (class III) and a desire to use them against law enforcement officers, don't come crying to momma when the law comes in after you threw down the gauntlet.
Obviously, the easiest thing to do would have been to nab david while he made his daily jog long outside the reaches of the compound... but then that wouldn't have completed the intended purpose of sending a message to all similarly situated people (and the public at large). Fuck with us and get the fire tanks.
However, it is not illegal... gassing people who have fully automatic weapons and have already shot officers is not only not remotely illegal, but preferable to the alternative... of course, should incindiary devices be thrown on flammable items... on a windy day...
Desire? Poor choice of wording. Macho, resistance to excessive force is lawful.
Ever seen the documentary? Just regular folks that wanted to learn and be left alone. Isn't that the point of the Rule of Law? The right to be left alone? The right to not have force initiated against you?
Lex mala, lex nulla.
There were better options than mass murder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-M60q2gOUE
No, it's not unlawful... that has already been decided... you're confusing your morality with the law... a dangerous game that got the davidians killed...
No, you're confusing natural rights with 'granted' rights.
It was in response to your statement that resistance to force is lawful... In this case, no it is not...
If you want to stretch the term "lawful", in this context, to include natural rights (whatever those may be), then we're going to need to set a lot of ground rules before beginning a discussion... like, defining virtually all of our terms... because we've crossed the rubicon of common usage.
No, there is no stretching. I have a right to travel and trade with anyone I choose as long as I do not initiate force or defraud.
There is a difference between Enemy of the People versus Enemy of the State.
You get to travel and trade with anyone you choose? What fucking world do you think you live in? Do you get to travel to the mexican border and smuggle people in? Drugs? Do you get to manufacture illegal firearms and sell them to enemy combatants? Do you get to possess weapons of mass destruction for your own personal enjoyment?
You're not discussing the issue here... you're arguing generalities in response to a very specific situation... simply put, they're inapplicable without further rule development...
Again, you're the one that claimed their actions were lawful... they were not... please discuss why they were lawful in the context of their actions, not the actions of general persons with common items...
double the pleasure, double the fun
I agree they probably were crazy, mislead, cultish, etc., but you shouldn't get killed for it. Deprogramming is OK. I was never sure about the child abuse thing, either as it seemed to be thrown in to justify what they already wanted to do, raid the compound.
Whoa. Back up the cart. Here are a few of the transgressions of the branch davidians:
1. Illegal firearms ownership (fully auto for sure);
2. Firing illegal firearms at police officers, striking them;
3. Polygamy;
4. Child endangerment; and
5. Refusal to submit to outside or external review when questions of child abuse arise.
Now, you say they shouldn't have been killed. I agree, in a perfect world. However, apprehension, of any sort, is a risky endeavor. If in fact the police used a tank to breach the compound (because they had gotten shot the last time they tried, thus being a reasonable use of force) and they tried to use gas to confuse and or incapacitate the davidians (also a reasonable use of force), then why would there be any outrage? You're trying to monday morning quarterback this thing... you have to determine whether the MEANS are reasonable, not the END RESULT. In this case, the means were reasonable and that's why there wasn't much of an outcry...
If you create an impossible situation of escalation with the police, then I'm not sure how you can complain about the result... If the women and children were innocent, why sacrifice them to the pigs? [hint, because they were religious nutjobs... might as well have said allahu akbar before the tanks rolled in...]. Sorry, but we can't decry pieces of shit in iraq for using women and children as shields and then OK it for crazy white folks here...
their firearms weren't illegal. They set them up like they did Weaver. As far as firing at police officers, it is not illegal to resist an unlawful arrest.
That said the dude was nutty and so were his followers, but they could have grabbed Koresh off the street any given day.
There was no outcry because the government controlled the message flow along with media lapdogs.
Randy Weaver is also supposed to have opened fire on "police officers," (though they had fired first according to witnesses); where was the outrage over the assassination of his wife by an FBI sniper, the murder of his son, and the entire rest of that sordid case? There was none despite his acquittal on ALL substantive charges.
Also in the state of texas, a citizen is allowed to use deadly force in the protection of them selves and their property.
sure, against other citizens...
Obviously, you're not a golfer...
Good thing a fully-informed jury of 12 has more sense than you. Never heard of a citizen acquited of killing an officer?
In the last couple hundred years? No, not really... Maybe a handful of cases...
I could see justifiably killing a police officer when the officer does not announce himself and is presumed to be a common intruder, etc. But, that is completely different than what we're talking about and what happened at the branch davidian compound...
Do you have any specific precedent?
Essentially, if you have been shot at during an unlawful arrest, then cool shoot back, otherwise, you're probably looking at manslaughter charges... you don't get to escalate an altercation... and, mind you, this is only if an arrest is UNLAWFUL. If the search warrant is valid, then you're going down for murder in the first or capital murder... best of luck with that.
As a fundamental tenet of the jury system, juries are perfectly capable of nullification... it's a rudimentary check and balance of the system... and just because a jury returns a verdict does not mean it is in keeping with the law... the jury is just capable of disregarding the law because it does not coincide with their belief system...
But no, you do not get to shoot a cop in the face who illegally pulls you over due to racial profiling... nice try.
The jury is the law.
Handful of cases because very few are informed and trained to resist unlawful activity. Most sheep think the police are hired to protect. Wrong!
Racial profiling? Come on, you can do better than that.
The power of the jury to nullify law is a rudimentary check upon an out of control legislative branch... by basic definition, the jury is not the law... it may choose to disregard the law... if the jury is the law, then why would we need to bother passing laws? If you're going to change the common definition of basic terms, you're gonna need to provide some kind of legend or something.
This also stinks to high hell of e-warriorism. When you "lawfully" resist your traffic stop, let us know how it goes...
My point was that the degree of your resistance must directly coincide with the force unlawfully used against you... else, you will face criminal charges for the difference. If you get pulled over for a traffic ticket because of an illegal stop, you are not allowed to shoot the police officer...
In short, you're a total fucking idiot that is giving very bad advice... and, might I add, who I have no doubt will capitulate to authority during an altercation at the first instant available.
No, you are a total fucking idiot that continues to use a traffic stop as a lowest common denominator for resisting unlawful use of force. We both agree that there is a narrow set of circumstances.
True, the jury is not the law, per se, but does not "disregard" the law - it judges if the law applies. Sorry you had to type a paragraph to explain your confusion.
First, the jury does not judge if the law applies... it judges if the facts of the case... the judge determines questions of law, not the jury... the jury has the power to disregard the law if it so chooses... but that process is not determining whether the law applies... the law may very well apply... that process simply involves the jury acting as the conscious of the community, interjecting morality over the law. Again, the judge determines whether the law applies, the jury finds facts that may or may not coincide with a particular charge...
Further, fine, let's discuss the scope of the branch davidians' legal right to resist arrest. Well, first question, was the attempted "illegal" arrest on their property? Yes. Ok, move to second question. Second question, was the attempted "illegal" arrest pursuant to a validly executed search warrant? Yep. Ok, go to third question. Third question, was the attempted arrest for felony charges warranting a felony entrance/stop (aka guns blazing)? Yep. Fourth question, did officers knock and announce and/or were they wearing clothing that clearly identified them as officers of the law? Yep. [did the davidians think a rival religious sect was moving in on their territory and painted a bunch of cop cars to look like the cops?]
The branch davidians, legally, could either submit to the agency executing the warrant or submit to the agency executing the warrant. Your talk about going down in a blaze of glory firing at officers executing a valid and enforceable search warrant is not only legally incorrect, but embarassing (let's see you on the news doing it big shot). Without any doubt, the branch davidians did not have the legal right to begin shooting at authorities as they approached the second floor window... period, end of story...
If you want to argue moral rights, that's your business... I couldn't care less... but please do not use the term lawful when you are doing so... the law has dick to do with morality...
Ah, you continue this personal focus. Hmm. You also like saying morality a lot. What's up with that? I never mentioned morals.
For the third time, lex mala, lex nulla. Feds overstep their authority on a daily basis. What are states and individuals to do about it if they deem federal authority as null? If their lives are immediately on the line? Are the Feds our supreme masters? Must we always submit to their every whim and *gosh golly gee* hope that subsequent investigations will be impartial and complete?
You focus on law and that it must be followed - so which Feds went to jail for that botched job? Proof to me that you must submit or die. Whatever happened to the 10th amendment?
First, above, you mentioned natural rights... these are synonymous with and the underpinning of every system of morality. Further, you are utilizing some conceptual framework other than the law of our nation for your theories... I presume that it is based upon your moral beliefs, otherwise I am not sure what you could possibly be basing your argument upon...
Second, yes I am focusing on you because you are completely and totally full of shit. You are not some magical "free man" that does as he pleases, authorities be damned. You submit constantly on a daily basis to their "control" and "desires". The best way to lead is by example.
Third, again you do not get to dictate the facts of what occurred. You're now backpeddling and attempting to tell us that the branch davidians' lives were on the line. In other words, the feds just started shooting without provocation. This strategy of revisionist history is not only unfair to anyone reading these posts, but also does a disservice to the fundamental concept of the truth. If you have to lie to help prove your point, it's probably not one worth making... presuming you care to be the least bit credible.
Fourth, no, the feds are not our supreme masters. However, save a very limited set of circumstances (THAT WERE NOT PRESENT IN THE WACO FIASCO), you must submit to their authority. Please explain the LEGAL significance of a search warrant and how this impacts our ability to resist arrest...
Fifth, you wanted to talk about jury nullification above, but now if people submit and face a trial by jury, they're certain to die? Which is it?
Sixth, the reason authorities have not been jailed for the botched job is because there is no legal requirement for them to execute their job perfectly. Meaning, if they have imperfect information regarding what might occur if gas/stun grenades are used in particular areas of the compound, then this must be taken into consideration. Likewise, if they are attempting to execute a valid search warrant and are fired upon, then they have the authority to fire back... If you escalate and make their job that much more tedious and risky, then do not complain about what happens.
I'm not sure what sort of standard you're trying to hold them to, but all you get is a reasonable man standard, not a perfection standard... If you want to bitch about anything, bitch about the magistrate that signed the warrant.
Last, you seem to think there are or have ever been choices other than submit or die... Even if you lawfully resist arrest, you will still likely have a day in court... ok, so you turn yourself in to submit instead of getting hauled to jail by a cop... big whoop. If you shoot at police, expect to die. Do you think that you get to resist arrest in perpetuity? What is your end game scenario? What happens when an unlawful arrest is cured and becomes lawful, do you still get to resist? You always must submit to the state... try not paying your taxes and see what happens... do you get to lawfully resist arrest for tax evasion? Because it was not validly entered into the law of the land? Lol... I honestly don't know what the fuck you are talking about and neither do you for that matter...
The point is, you can either have a state or you can not have a state... but you do not get to reign sovereign within a state. Ultimately, the two concepts are mutually exclusive when it comes to enforcement of laws... and I have no idea how you derived this world view... but it literally has no historical basis nor practical basis... If it is not the federal government, it's your local sheriff kicking the door in... what you don't want to admit is that on some fundamental level, you need the security of laws and law enforcement to protect your individual rights... but you can't have one without the other... and it is completely unreasonable to assume perfect actors (especially when we pay our best and brightest to pursue other endeavors).
Just because the machoman is pissing me off , since he doesn't know diddly about what went on at Waco, I am going to go and purchase me mac 10 with a silencer, probably 9mm variety, manufactured by Gordon B. Ingram. Cost , oh about 4000. no biggie. 200 dollar stamp to the goon squad, if Mr. HPD is not on the no fly list yet, and transfer fee, and sign off by the local badge wearing security officer chief type person and then its time to go the range and spend some money. I guess mr machoman, smary pants know it all, doesn't understand that in Texas we can legally buy machine guns and silencers and sawed off shotguns. good grief.
Incidentally, the four goons that got killed there, were all shot in the same place in the left temple execution style because they were FOB, friends of Bill. Those people in that church didn't shoot those people. When the good squad decided to attack this church in Waco, illegally, I might add, it was a great time to tie ups some lose ends, after all, loose lips sink ships....Friends of Bill sometimes had a way of ending up dead.........
Well put,
Its common with the less informed thinking that automatic weapons SHOULD be banned, but have an unquestioning and blind trust of police and the man. That trust is undeserved, and willingly leave yourself without any weapons is telling.
Not only do I personally own class III weapons, but I am also in the process of becoming licensed to sell them to others. I have drafted "gun trusts" for others... and have a sizeable general collection of firearms. In short, yes, I do know about these things...
Waco is not the rally cry for anti government initiative... you need to take off the anti government hat, despite it being completely warranted in general, and put on the hat of objectivity. The people were crazy and the government's actions were fucked up, but within the confines of the law... and, unfortunately, the law is the only legal standard to which we can hold them...
There will come a day when the foothold (more like bootheel on our neck) of the police state breaks... but, it will not occur as a result of incidents like waco... ruby ridge, getting closer... however, the government has presumably changed tactics somewhat over the fallout... hence, how the montana freemen were handled... obviously, in retrospect, waco was a mistake made by all parties... some people just have a problem laying blame to the branch davidians...
Crazy or not, they had the right to be left alone.
Lex mala, lex nulla? Nullification mean anything? Is everything settled fairly in courts after the dogs have been shot, the children terrified and removed from their parents, the gas residue has been cleaned up, the windows repaired?
Is that not terror? What threat were they to fellow citizens? They were certainly a threat to jackbooted thugs.
What you're arguing for is literally a state where authorities are impotent to enforce laws. Needless to say, this is not a state... What you're advocating is lawlessness. This is a great concept until your wife gets raped, son skinned alive, and couch fucked up.
The issue of whether they were a threat or not is completely irrelevant... if we have a benevolent religious figure with a nuclear weapon that promised not to use it on anyone else, would we just leave him alone? What about a person who has a kiddie porn dungeon? Drug stash? Counterfeit dollars he never planned on using? Apparently, our legislature of elected officials saw fit to make what the branch davidians were doing illegal and, therefore, a threat to fellow citizens (a threat to the fundamental underpinning of our ability to enforce the laws). Further, a member of the judiciary via warrant acknowledged that the actions warranted search and seizure.
I just don't understand your concept of government... literally, you want it to be powerless to enforce the laws on the books... you can either have a government with authority to act or an impotent body... but you can't have both...
If you want your actions to rest upon jury nullification, then I encourage you to do so. But, don't plan on surviving your jail sentence...
So there was some other fully automatic rifle firing from inside the compound making the holes around the window the cops were trying to get into? That's like saying the guys on the wikileaks video weren't carrying AKs... how they obtained them is completely irrelevant.
And the only force you may use against police performing an unreasonable search or seizure or arrest is REASONABLE force... which does not, under virtually any circumstances, consist of shooting at police officers.
Agreed on other parts.
Go watch some police brutality videos on YouTube for the benefit of your fellow man:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+brutality&aq=f
The People grant the power of law enforcement to trusted individuals, not the other way around.
Our streets!!
I completely agree that police use excessive force in an incredibly high number of arrests and stops and general daily occurrences. However, I completely disagree that you may lawfully shoot at an officer attempting to apprehend you... it depends on a very narrow set of circumstances, not likely present in the context of the branch davidians... you're arguing the general on a specific issue...
Narrow set of circumstances, I agree. The People then saw what happens when you resist - and that justice is blind. Right then and there the People should have demanded sweeping investigations and bayed for blood. But we know why they didn't. Which is why we live in a police state.
The approaching British simply came to take firearms and gunpowder and were fired upon. Who was right?
As stated above, this is not about right and wrong... it's about lawful and unlawful...
Well the damn peasants broke the law. Wasn't firing on the Crown's troops treason and such?
Your need for perfect semantics reeks of "e-whining".
Let's see how absurd this column width can get.
Give me ambiguity, or give me something else!
It's not perfect semantics, its the basic use of common words of the english language... if you want to call them something different, that's fine, I'll just need a translator to understand your point of view...
They were 'crazy'? Oh, well what did they ever do to anyone? Nothing that I ever heard of, except a bunch of govt BS.
If I tell you I am the reincarnation of Jesus, can I fuck your wife?
PS, and your daughter
Feel free to try! My Daughter will take you apart -- maybe even loosen your head from the rest of you with her Katana!
brainwashing > katana
Don't you know the riddle of steel? *james earl jones voice*
Well, Waco wasn't it apparently...
Although, a civil jury returned randy weaver a sizeable award under similar (not really) circumstances.
Mr. Weaver felt vindicated, but would have gladly traded the FRNs for the lives of his wife and son, murdered by the FBI!
We have this idea in this country that we are supposed to be strong independent individualist. When the individualist , goes up against the cops, who wins? We need to think as a group and act as a group. There is strength in numbers. Lone wolves are easy prey. This lesson will be learned I guess the hard way by many. It is easy to say that you will stop someone from taking your land by the gun, yet if you have no help then you are tantamount committing suicide by cop. Joe Willie Namath said one time that life was a team sport. It is. This is why everytime someone gets a good militia unit going , then something bad happens to them. It never ends.
I kind of considered the same idea above your post. Depending on how things develop not all law enforcement will side with an authoritarian state. There are lots of good cops, especially in smaller towns and the local level that will draw some kind of line. However, there are many who are political appointees and all those who believe "I AM the law!" that will go with the State. I don't believe you can organize any physical resistance these days. Besides the fact that it is hard to point physical resistance at any particular target, we are all monitored directly or indirectly (registries, tax forms, electronic transactions, licensing, passive listening, etc.) I do believe you can do organized political resistance. In my best scenario a state or ten decide to resist the Feds in things like the healthcare reform or some other catalyst...like tax rates going to 80%. You've got to have some heavyweights on your side that are already organized.
Oh hell yeah!
Bring your friends. They do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKK9EjEEG_Q
^2
Yeah but taxes on farmland is super low - 100 bucks for 20-30 acres of less. They could make it a 1000 and who cares if you are prepared it will be a nonevent
Land? Bad move. It's just exposure to predatory taxation. Real estate is the ultimate trap.
Perhaps I am not making myself clear, just buy the fucking dip.
/robo
Debt Commission "we can make it up on immigration volume"
The debt clock made some changes, just a few months ago total unfunded liabilities for 2010 were 111 trillion and rising over 200 billion a week, medicare was adjusted down, these numbers are incomplete too, many govt accounting reports have an * denoting liabilities which are too nebulous to quantify, so they just omit them, back then some of the enties they listed were GSEs (FNM FRE FHA) so actually things are much much worse than they say.
Debt has been piling up to outrageous levels for years.
Yet nothing happens.
Ho - hum.....
"Wash, Rinse, Repeat"
'Nothing happens'...depends on your perspective. Those with the 'Anal-Cranial Inversion syndrome' have an understandably tough time seeing things happening every day. Sheltered soft americans will be hardest hit, and deserve it.
+++
Nothing happens until it does.
Those debt numbers are so huge that it almost doesn't matter exactly which figures are "correct".
Now that I back in the USSA, today I am off to buy some more gold and silver.
...
That thread yesterday re FOFOA's new piece really riled this place up! I was happy to see my friends with their differing opinions on PMs.
...
Don't forget the Lunar Eclipse tonight at 1:30 AM ET!
Well gosh, if nothing has happened so far, it must mean nothing ever will! Spoken like a true lemming trader. Watch out for that first step, it's a doozy.
Yes nothing has happened ever. And all bubbles are deemed unsinkable, well at least until they blow up in everyones face and they get set to jump on the next bubble....damn humans really are fuktarded, what a bunch of lemmings.
What was the black-swan tale about the turkey? Getting fed is just an indication that humans love him?
Yes they do! If fact, they're inviting Tom Turkey over for dinner...
Sorry, exactly what part of the last three years looks like "nothing" to you?
History wasn't your major was it?
LOL god you're a douchebag troll - so Europe being on the brink is considered nothing? US is in great shape too LOL
Wake me up when the markets actually give a shit.
Before you junk me, I wish this weren't the case!
Since they already have had 6 in the past 2 years, Japan could have another 30 Ministers of Finance by 2015
Just out of interest, we know there are paid shills and journo-types, there's the odd CEO and of course the chairmen of central banks...but that's about, a few hundred people, in total, around the world - really, that can't be right. There are plenty of people, serious-types, who disagree with this...but, roughly, are the numbers of the pro- and con- ?
I guess it's to early for the trolls, how long before the debt clock becomes a threat to national security and gets brought down. Gotta love this country!!
No doubt theyll just solve the problem of the debt by removing the debtclock from public view.
Even at the 24.5 trillion figure by 2015, NOT including unfunded liabilities, each American will owe $240,000 in debt, and the interest service component service alone on that amount will equal roughly 1.25 trillion per year, assuming blended treasury note interest rates of around 5%.
Now, here is where it really gets scary:
1) There are roughly 135 million Americans working, and not 300 million. So, one can rationally and essentially take that $240,000 'per citizen' in debt figure, and multiply it by 2.2 or so, so that each person really who actually is employed is going to be carrying $530,000 in actual debt on their shoulders (even scarier would be reducing the 150 million figure of 'employed' by those who actually pay 'net' taxes after benefits received back are taken into account).
2) If interest rates head higher, and even remotely price in risk as markets are likely to do over time, you can basically add 3% easily to that 5% interest rate used above, which would take the debt service component (total interest paid) on actual, existing debt (completely discounting unfunded liabilities) to a staggering 2 trillion per annum - just interest.
With politicians unwilling or unable to cut entitlement programs and defense spending (the biggest portions of the budget by far - about 82%), you can see why there's not going to be any resolution of this except a catastropic one.
I like your analysis, Truth. However, I see it more grimly. How many people who work actually PAY any taxes? Less than half, now. In fact, at the low end they often are net recipients with Earned Income Credits and other state benefits. So, let's divide those employment numbers by half to get net taxPAYERS...yeah even the guy who only sends in a buck...and the numbers are far worse.
No, the better question is, who actually wants to pay taxes? I hear a lot of people who say they wouldn't mind paying more in taxes, but I don't see them volunteering the remainder of their discretionary income to the government. Of course, when they're confronted with this glaring inconsistency, they have no answer... In short, they can acknowledge that other people don't want to pay taxes, but they will pay more, they just need someone else to tell them how much... ok... that sounds reasonable... (laugh).
No... what you're going to have is a lot more cash transactions... which will attempt to be curtailed by 1099s ($600) and a push towards electronic (and thus documented) transfers. [will have the added benefit of less depoits for banks to leverage]. There will be solidarity among the general populace to take their liberties with failure to report taxes and a general tax revolt... the government will have to resort to ever more draconian measures to collect taxes, which will undermine its viewpoint and act counter to any ability for organic recovery... the lines in the sand will be drawn at that point and the general populace will have incentive to watch the whole thing fail.
You are right about "wanting" or not wanting to pay taxes. It is one of my favorite liberal hypocracies. They talk about the necessity of everyone especially "the rich" paying their "fair" share yet, Kennedy's protect wealth from inheritance taxes with trust funds, Kerry's register their yatchs in lower tax states and Geitner and Rangel cheat on taxes. Other duped millionaires tell how they should pay more. Great! Lead the way and send in all you want. I believe you legally can. I have lost about 25% of my income the last two years so pay a little extra for me! The truth is they want someone else to pay and to continue gathering power through the distribution of those funds.
The whole thing will fail on its own no matter what. It's like the laws of financial physics will grind every so slowly but finely. How that plays out no one knows. I suspect we will all be surprised...and not nicely.
I recently bought tires at my local (privately owned) tire shope. There were two prices: one payable by credit card, check, etc. The second and lower price, payable with cash (pieces of paper with presidents on them). The second price had "sales tax" rolled into the "negotiated price" as well.
A happy transaction for both parties.
Never, ever buy anything without asking the "cash" price. Effectively, you help out local actors (think farmers on up the food chain) and you help starve the beast [not only the government, but banks/cc companies]. At this juncture, I am not sure it is morally sound to continue funding our war mongering piece of shit government. This is why taxes are to be paid with the threat of the gun... otherwise, they get dick. Likewise, this is why they slice off tax at the employer level, because if left to their own discretion, americans would have a house full of ipads and no tax paid [because deep down we don't agree with the tax].
Needless to say, it's not going to be a hard sell to the american public... you don't even need to say anything... I'll pay you cash for your wares and if you want to pay tax on it, then that's your business. You're not doing anything other than giving them the option not to pay tax on their sale... barber shops... farmers markets... local restaurants... gas stations (harder to hide)... you name it. Hell, some of them are turning things around and ask me if I want a receipt? Of course, the answer is always, nope. If you want to report this sale, that's your business...
By the time they get around to implementing meaningful draconian change in this regard, the government cart will have been lightened so much (because we can't drag any more), that it won't matter... it'll be too late.
Another aspect of the local sale: No telephone number, no zip code, no address. Not even a name. Nothing required other than a nod and some cash exchanged.
MachoMan seeing you a lot lately. i always pay in cash, and definitely ask for a receipt. got screwed over a couple of times, by paying cash and oops you took the cash from me that you just gave me. another time the hair dresser took cash then the front desk called me up the next day and said: we must of not gotten the correct credit card info, from you. because we are missing the hundred dollar ledger entry from balance owed for services. well, guess what, the damn woman took the cash and then reported that i didn't pay using a credit card. i didn't ask for a receipt, my problem.
HELL get a receipt when paying by cash, or you could end up in JAIL.
I suppose it was disingenuous of me not to include that I often times do get a receipt... but, it begs the question, how did you get out of the store if you did not pay? Same thing with most everything... why did it take them a day to call the cops?
The other thing you can do is withdraw a specific amount of cash from your account just for the purpose of paying for X item... then you can go back to your accounts and say, see, I withdrew that here... anecdotal obviously, but helps corroborate none the less.
"This can't go on! Not even one more nano-second!"...
Rasputin
- Wed, Aug 11, 2010 - 05:10 AM
...or so screeched a then-greenhorn Ras back in 1980, when the total
U.S. debt reached a measly one-trillion fiatscos of debt.
Now, the Fed--all by itself--holds over TWO-TIMES that much, the
Communist Chinese hold at least a trillion of Uncle's debt, and the
total amount of debt (on the books, anyway, with much more off the
books) is now well over thirteen-trillion fiatscos and rising at the
rate of OVER a trillion per year.
So, when the Fed announces that they are going to keep "monetizing"
(which is a cutesy Orwellian term for "We're gonna fling fiatscos 'til
the cows come home") Uncle's debt, there should no longer be ANY debate
that indeed this HAS, CAN, AND WILL go on.
Infinitely, as a matter of fact.
Look at the P&F target on PAAS....$69....Wow!
Perfect perpetual motion machine confirmed invented and patented by The Barnank. LMAO party on, BK USA!
you can't eat infinity, i've tried
I sure hope the Robo fiatscos caravan can keep moving along without the People's Republik of Kalifornia.
www.doctorhousingbubble.com
Why don't we go Iceland on everyone's asses? Throw out the bums in DC. Throw out the Fed. Throw out the bankers. SS? Fuckit. Medi***? Fuckit. Paying debt to who? Wait - we pay interest on money that we print? To who? Fuckit.
Oh yeah - forgot about those pesky ICBMs that were launched simultaneously on each coast but hey: They were just bluffing!
Of course, now that we are a socialist country, none of this will happen without a crisis but aren't we going to get that for free anyway?
Yes the crisis will be free of charge to the bankster kleptocracy.
Oh will everyone just shut the whining and BUY THE DIP dammit!
And now they want your pension funds and your social security.
Theyll get em soon! While everyone is buyin da dip, one morning a national emergency will have happened and everyones 401K's and pensions will 'be on hold till further notice' or something hillarious like that.
In my opinion, any funds or investments held outside of your personal protection and control are possible and probable losses and to me, it is simply too risky , especially in this environment , to not be taking the necessary precauctions to guard your wealth. Need I say , how this can be done? I am sure many of you already know this. One day, Leo will have nothing to do because all of the pension funds will have been seized, under national security measures, for the good of the people doncha know.
Lucky for me I cashed out in late 2008, paid the taxes and penalties.
Much of that money is now in gold, hahaha .gov and Fed!
A lot of things can change. We might decide to stop the wars ( save 1 Trill /yr), stiff foreign holders of US paper ( given), slash the so called un-funded liabilities. I believe the dire projections might be a bit less dire .
What matters is - we are self sufficient in water, food and shelter. We are still the leaders in a number of key technologies and most importantly are politically incredibly stable ( compared to Europe, China etc).
Chin up. Linear extrapolations have a tendency to be proven stupid .
Chin up...you never know, a lot of things can change for instance Im banking on the idea that at any minute gold bars will come shooting out of my ass!
Would you mind being my personal alchemist?
WTH?
Corporate tax revenue goes from 186 billion(2010) to 875 billion(2015)?
Only $144,000,000,000,000? Psshhh! The monthly rent on my shitty 1-bedroom crap-hole apartment will be that much in 2015.
Are you still using dialup?
No, I have ISDN now. It's almost twice as fast! You should check it out.
Why don't you use a unsecured network from your neighbours?
I've got 4 possible connections like that and last week some moron installed a wireless printing server that's also open. If he isn't going to close it soon, I'm going to send some files to print. Some 3.000.000 pages or so :)
none of the wifis around me are open :(
Try googling how to crack a wifi...to easy.
Print ZH articles every once in a while instead - big bold letters at the top:
SPREAD THE TRUTH OR SUFFER MY WRATH
- GOD
I believe the basic divide is between those who compare our situation to some imaginary utopian ideal( ya know where gals are gals and boys are men and the wealthy stay wealthy by storing bars of gold and everyone sing oompah songs in the clear Alpine air - all ist weiss all ist bright) - aand those who compare our current situation as a country to other countries. And realize that what keeps this country vibrant is the wealthy by and large dont stay wealthy - and some kid immigrated from Russia becomes the wealthiest guy in the land by inventing a better algorithm ( most extraordinary).
Are you serious???
You realize the REALLY weathy don't even report the their assest, have their names show up in the fortune "richest men list" or pay any taxes. Tell me how much the Rothschilds are worth.
One of the rockefellers was caught on camera saying he doesnt pay taxes.
I believe the debt will primarily be owed to the Federal Reserve, since everyone else will stop buying American debt way before 2015. At some appropriate moment in the next decade, we will shut down the Fed., and all the debt obligations held by the Fed will go with that institution into the history books. Ahh...relief at last.
I'm Hopiuming thats the outcome, and who knows Ron Paul may actually bring some fire when he next confronts The Bernank and TimMAAAAYY next! Imagine if threads start actually getting pulled here and there...wouldnt take much at all to start the whole mess unraveling.
End the FED and get Iceland on the bankster kleptocracy, tell em to go pound sand. Iceland did, and while there was some discomfort theyre well on their way to ACTUAL recovery, minus the bankster overlord parasites.
I won't have to trouble myself going to Zimbabwe because Zimbabwe will come to me!
Was listening to Jon Sanchez, money master on KOH radio. He is forecasting a huge economic rebound. Says get in "now" and I say fuck em. Panned him here.
http://thecivillibertarian.blogspot.com/
Yes, but it's $24.5 Trillion in USD and they don't count.
It's not debt if the Fed owns it - they will eventually forgive it. Just watch.
As long as the Rothschildian Lizard Men are not neutered, they'll get paid.
Bernanke & the bagmen for the wizards behind the curtain will end up dumping their treasury holdings at a risk premium onto the herding stampede of bison during the next geopolitical crisis.
I dub thee not junk. Go in peace brother.
That was not a pin dropping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b7RmJJP5uM
The printing game will be allowed to continue as long as the Chinese get some benefit from the US crack whore that sends them money. There will be a day the US will become a liability and the Chinese will tell the US to go fuck itself and collapses the US dollar, but not until they are militarily prepared as this will be an act of war and the US only has one tool in the toolkit to respond.
On an aside I visited a local government office today for a driver's license. Waited in line for over 2 hours to get this done. At about 1.5 hours into my wait, a 'gentleman' in charge of one of the lines yells at the growing crowd that we picked a bad day to come to their offices as most staff were on vacation this week. Ahh, just like any other well run business...let most of your staff go on vacation during a time you know you will be exceptionally busy and blame the 'masses' for this. How stupid of us.
ye - lets quiver in fear of the great Chinese super-power economy. With a per-capita income of $3000. Can anyone name one technology or product invented/commercialized/made in China that they use? ( Apple IPODS dont count!!).
Yes by all means lets quake in our boots.
The debt they hold will become a weapon against us if/when the Chinese decide it the right moment. They already can manipulate US policy...anyone recall Geithner's recent u-turn on issuing a statement on Chinese currency manipulation? We blinked and have already lost the war.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ajv6m8b7WEy4&refer=home
They are good at counterfeiting shit!!
? Their per capita is rising while ours in nominal terms has been dropping steadily and accelerating.
One of my favorite themes is the nature of involuntary (i.e. government) relationships and voluntary (free market, free association). This is why I hate DMV's. I have to register several vehicles myself and can't wait to stand in line for days, probably the wrong line or wrong office. You should have yelled back that you heard there was a Christmas sale on tags. Of course, your paperwork would have been lost immediately or denied your documents and a cop would be following you home. Don't piss off the government, even a lowly idiot clerk.
Go to a store afterwards where they are glad to see because you bring revenue and the possibility of a raise with good service. I love freedom and free people. Life is so much better.
We are just going through one of those periodic shakeups - where the quick- witted take money from the slow witted offspring of the formerly wealthy . This is a good thing - no?
I am going long in a couple commodities. Guns and Bullets!
Same here, and a metric crapload of Ramen noodles.
Tyler, why don't you report on real news such as how this year's online Christmas shopping is up? Our economy is in the "sweet spot" as RBS's senior economist is proclaiming on Fox Business as I write this.
People sidestepping taxes and shopping online? How is that an important economic story?
'Economy is in the 'sweet spot' lol yea try removing the daily double POMO's, free no-lookies stock market manipulation all day and ZIRP money print mania and lets see how sweet 'the economy' really is? You think The Bernank wants to take that dare?
+
Sing it brother.
My comment was sarcasm.......lighten up.
Oh, often hard to tell sarcasm these days on here because now there are those trolling around who actually believe we are in some kind of economic euphoria.
Not one word from the gold haterz... interesting..
Or the usual trolls, not a peep.
Troll=goobermint=vacation
Today the number is $13.56 trillion:
As of September 30, 2010, the "Total Public Debt Outstanding" of $13.56 trillion was approximately 94% of annual GDP of $14.4 trillion, with the constituent parts of the "Debt held by the Public" being approximately 63% of GDP ($9.0 Trillion) and "Intergovernmental Debt" standing at 31% of GDP ($4.5 Trillion).
Stop exaggerating. You lose (even more) credibility. Get back to shamlessly pumping dotcom stocks, I mean gold, to the zombies. Isn't that what you do best?