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With $5 Trillion In US And European Funding Needs Over The Next 3 Years, How Long Until The Global Monetization Tsunami Hits (Again)?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While we have presented the below charts in the past in some form or another on various occasions, since everyone's memory is at most 1 trading day strong these days, we are happy to recycle content while continuing to "surprise" our readers. Below, we present the chart showing European maturities over the next three years. It should be sufficient to convince anyone that while the US needs ongoing QE to not only to keep stocks rising past May/June (Fed's 3rd and only mandate) but to monetize trillions in gross debt issuance (without rates needing to surge to make up for demand shortfall as Bill Gross pointed out so well on Wednesday), Europe is in an even worse predicament. Among the Eurozone's banks, there is roughly $2.4 trillion in funding requirements until 2014. And as our disclosure yesterday on the massive Irish capital shortfall notes, nobody has yet answered the question where all this funding will come from, short of the ECB pulling a Fed, and starting to monetize everything from the bottom of the capital structure upward in the primary markets instead of only through secondary market interventions. Keep in mind this excludes actual sovereign funding needs. Which is not to say the US is immune from the same problem. It isn't. But looking at the problem globally confirms everyone's greatest nightmare: where, in the absence of ongoing central bank monetizations (with or without the assistance of major financial black holes like Europe's EFSF), will the world be able to find buyers for roughly $4-5 trillion in debt to keep the self-funded Ponzi going?

European bank funding needs 2011-2014:

And Sovereign debt redemption schedule:

Source: Morgan Stanley

 

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Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:25 | 1020647 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Portugal on the 27th?  Or the 24th?  Been over a day, and I fergot....

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:37 | 1020689 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

Marc Faber on Bloomberg 3/3/11

 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcY6bP7gFko

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:29 | 1020652 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Eventually there will be a QE that attempts to stuff it all into the long-end of the curve. It's too early yet, as it is still seen as too drastic a measure, but eventually, the inevitability of it all will normalize the experience, much like the rape of the short-end is old news today.

Otherwise all this heavy lifting is simply going to exhaust them.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:31 | 1020658 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Dont look at me, Im just a Taxpayer

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:24 | 1020816 10kby2k
10kby2k's picture

Start learning Chinese.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 22:39 | 1021246 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

I'm going to learn Icelandic ... or whatever they speak there. The women are WAY hotter.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:29 | 1020659 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Pardon the off topic question, but there used to be a ZH search box to find old content.  Is it my browser, or has it gone Dodo?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:36 | 1020686 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I dunno, but google always pays attention to ZH.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:41 | 1020702 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Thanks, N.A., that's what I'm using now.  Just wondering if it moved or if there's a story there I missed...

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:44 | 1020703 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Looks like it went Dodo.  Total bummer.  Search terms under article titles are operative, though.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 20:41 | 1021034 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Its on the main page, not after you click a story. One of the better search engines too.

Maybe not I can't find it either. It must come and go.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 21:01 | 1021081 longshortflat
longshortflat's picture

Yes I agree vehemently .... I can't find it ... in ANY OF 4 browsers .... please advise if you find it.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 13:16 | 1021935 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

When you search at google, and you know you want something from ZH, do it like this:

 

"site:zerohedge.com blah blah"

 

This will only return results from the site indicated. Spell carefully and if you add the www. in front it will be required to return in the results, so leave it off unless you know you want it.

 

Cooter

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 13:44 | 1021975 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Thx, C.C.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:33 | 1020670 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Will they be able to find buyers? Sure.

They're all jerks sitting in a circle and will do what comes naturally after that. 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:40 | 1020699 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Monetezuma's Revenge.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:43 | 1020710 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

as long as the nice, polite, well-dressed people at the bankS keep helping us with loans, what's the problem?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:58 | 1020716 Rainman
Rainman's picture

I say bring on the Worldwide 100 year bond. Stuff all the shit in there. If the boyz can sell a NINJA landscaper's mortgage paper to millions of investors, surely they could handle a job like this.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 21:04 | 1022685 RoRoTrader
RoRoTrader's picture

I always liked your 'stuff', and you are probably onto to something with 100s. From what I read you are not alone with that thought.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:51 | 1020722 Misean
Misean's picture

Perhaps a fund raising co-ed car wash?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:55 | 1020729 mynhair
mynhair's picture

'Fund' raising with lithe co-eds?  That's a new take.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:55 | 1020733 Misean
Misean's picture

Yeah, you get the picture.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:03 | 1020756 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Bring on the Swedish (bikini team) bonds!

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:41 | 1020875 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

I missed the picture, please post..  lol!

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 22:35 | 1021236 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

I never miss a high school fund raising car wash.  I can't help it.  I just love those perky tits.

Hey I'm not a pedophile.  If you think about it people like their fruit at the first moment it is perfectly ripe.  It only goes downhill in quality from that day of peak freshness.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:01 | 1020746 uno
uno's picture

pay for view of bankers, fed officials against hungry lions & hyenas

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:02 | 1020755 Misean
Misean's picture

We could bet Quatloos...

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 17:16 | 1022384 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Two words: audience participation.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 20:01 | 1020929 uno
uno's picture

when I lived in Wichita a local stripper club had a car wash fund raiser.  To see those girls in bikinis in broad daylight while sober was horrifying.  Alcohol and dark bars are strippers best friends.

 

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 17:19 | 1022386 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Perhaps a fund raising co-ed car wash?

 

Now there's some 'stimulus' I can <ahem>...get behind. "Shake it for your country!"

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:56 | 1020731 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

That's the problem with exponential equations - not sustainable.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:00 | 1020741 Robert-Paulson
Robert-Paulson's picture

Tyler,

 

remember what happened last time you used a Morgan chart?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:00 | 1020744 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Why isn't rice over 20, instead of 14 and change?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:40 | 1020876 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Wait for it.  Won't be long now. 

Still cheap.

(blah, blah long most of the strip)

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 22:31 | 1021231 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

Strangely if you go to the food commodity elevators and you are looking at it at the level of the real cash transactions it is widely reported that American rice sales are down because there is a glut of rice right now in the world priced less than American rice.  there will be less rice planted this spring because sales (at the truckload level from the elevators for either internal consumption or export) are very, very weak.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:01 | 1020750 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

How bad can it be?  Check out this video at 20 seconds in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5BiBn91Ag0

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:13 | 1020784 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Today was significant not just for oil: NFP report was a tremendous tell. Into the 3rd year of the business cycle and only a pittance to show for it in terms of jobs added despite heroic monetary/fiscal policy. 

The tell is this: The engine of US economic growth no longer fires on all cylinders. And the long awaited turn in the NFP had that written all over it. 

 

What that means is  the public and also bank debt can not and will not be repaid. The only choice left is default through monetary debasement. Party on!

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 22:27 | 1021229 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

not a real default but a debasement.  If you watch the cycle and understand that treasuries are probably in a long term slow bear market with occasional counter trend moves then you can make money.

The next ten years will be a great time to be a contrarian.  Overbought and oversold conditions will mean something again.  One has to go long treasuries when people start getting really scared about inflation, probably in the next couple of months will be a good time.  Then one has to sell treasures as their prices are rising and people become afraid of deflation.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:30 | 1020844 10kby2k
10kby2k's picture

When everyone bails from the stock market.....commodities are going to get really crowded.....then the government is going to step in with price controls and confiscation.

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 21:29 | 1021139 Backspin
Backspin's picture

Price controls will lead to shortages.  If they put in price controls on food and gas, there will be shortages of food and gas.  If the government instigates price controls, bad times will be coming for all of us.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 22:22 | 1021211 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

whoops

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 22:21 | 1021213 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

no they won't have to use price controls.  They are much more sophisticated now than in the seventies.  They will allow brief deflationary cycles to sorta kinda wash out some of the inflation in commodities.  Then they will start the inflationary process over again until people start getting nervous, then have another mild deflationary wash out.  Meanwhile the long term trend in commodities will be up, but it will be managed and not allowed to get out of control during this period of debt rebalancing.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 19:45 | 1020861 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

The wests currencies have been grossly overvalued for decades - their tempory value has been based on a stupendous physical decapitalisation of utilities and industry.

Just monetize the shit out of it - you will see some Asian manufacturing capacity coming back withen a decade.

I will be glad to see the end of this industrial vandalism that started in the late 60s - the bankers need to be shot at dawn - what we have lost is incalculable but we may have something of value remaining.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JacGZ4LxK-0

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 20:07 | 1020960 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

>> Just monetize the shit out of it - you will see some Asian manufacturing capacity coming back withen a decade.

What makes you think places like China will let it come BACK without nationalization?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 20:20 | 1020985 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

OK - let them subsidise the oil needed to transport their shit half way around the world .

Besides - there is still a small cadre of applied scientists and technicians that we can use to rebuild with some dignity - but first lets just hang the lawyers and bankers.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 21:09 | 1021098 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

"What makes you think places like China will let it come BACK without nationalization?"

China has no choice.

Dork is right.

"Just monetize the shit out of it"

No offence.

Do you not think that "China", whatever that is, is aware.

Or do you think that "China" are just a bunch of British Opium smokers?

 

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 12:36 | 1021889 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

Dork, ++.  So pathetic that these fuck tarts (I'll add politicians to your hit-list, the moonlight position for lawyers/bankers) sold our country out decades ago and retarded Americans still think their standard of living is increasing because of globalization.  Human economies never existed until people started using their hands to produce goods.  How could a nation have an economy without producing the vast majority of their goods.  Any other type of economy is parasitism at best, but really more like cancer.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 17:22 | 1022393 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Wasting faster than Steve Jobs.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 20:03 | 1020944 lolmaster
lolmaster's picture

As someone whose boat is loaded with paper gold calls, I say bring on the paper paper printing.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 20:35 | 1021020 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

"where, in the absence of ongoing central bank monetizations (with or without the assistance of major financial black holes like Europe's EFSF), will the world be able to find buyers for roughly $4-5 trillion in debt to keep the self-funded Ponzi going?".  There are only two places that they can get it from, another planet that decides to buy our debt or continued monetization until hyperinflation, thats it.  No one on this planet has the ability or the inclination to fund another country or countries debt to that crazy amount, and even if they did it would be at their countries peril.  As he said, as a last resort they may try to push this to the long end of the curve but it's at their peril.  Because if done, along with the monetization going no economists can defend a classic debt monetization of an economy and say it won't implode in disaster.  We are done, what is happening now is people are trying to find a hidehole or a place secure for their money when this whole game blows up.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 21:35 | 1021144 Backspin
Backspin's picture

You got it.  But I bet they try to push it out as much as they can.  They are in total denial of reality.  It will come back to bite us all.

It seems we're getting near the end.  The only problem I have with that reasoning is that 20 years ago, I would have said that the numbers were too huge, not sustainable, and that it seems we're getting near the end.

It really does seem that way now, though.  Gold $1400, Silver $35...

Sun, 03/06/2011 - 10:57 | 1023397 twotraps
twotraps's picture

Buck, I totally agree.  What are some options?  At a minimum I'd like to not get hurt if it tips over...the maximum is some huge new trend if you or anyone can figure out where cash will flow.  I try to reconcile how much uncertainty there can be, speed of events unfolding, value of things (land or more liquid investments) and alternatives to the dollar.  Lots of discussion about structural issues and anticipated outcomes yet little on how much a few mkt players control and shocking speed.  I love it when people argue about PE ratios and the history of the mkt when if this thing heads down, its going down.  Would like to hear your options if you've thought any through.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 20:51 | 1021070 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

"With $5 Trillion In US And European Funding Needs Over The Next 3 Years, How Long Until The Global Monetization Tsunami Hits (Again)?"

I'd say as long as the idiots who provided the $5 in the first place realise the they have to provide it again.

And them some.

It is not where it came from.

It is why it came.

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 21:00 | 1021082 kaiten
kaiten's picture

"...nobody has yet answered the question where all this funding will come from..."

I think we all know the answer. Those fundings will come from that great german invention: the printing presses.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 21:47 | 1021163 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Johannes Gensfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 21:50 | 1021171 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

If only Gutenberg could see The Bernank now...

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 22:03 | 1021188 Goldenballs
Goldenballs's picture

Don,t worry anything that could ever happen has been priced in,honest.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 22:13 | 1021193 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

This is one of many examples of why hyperinflation is not in our future.  The Fed will inflate as much as they can.  Then they will allow natural deflationary forces to clear things out for a while.  Then they will inflate again and allow another deflationary cycle when inflation gets too hot.

The deflation will be minimal.  Just enough to cool off the inflation before the fed gets started again.

This cycle will continue for about ten years until we have outgrown our debt.  The volatility during these cycles will scare enough people into treasury bonds long term (and at the wrong times) so that the ultimate "sustainable rebalance" that results after the next ten years primarily comes at the expense of people who bought at the wrong time and held too long.

Somebody has to be a loser during this and subsidize the losses.  Debt is either repaid, inflated away, or repudiated.  There will be enough hope of decent bond returns as well as fear of volatility generated during each cooling off period (deflation scare) that additional people will be funneling their money into treasuries each deflationary period to stop the treasury market from completely collapsing, and subsidize this ten year rebalancing process.  We will have more frequent recessions but they will be fairly mild.  We should expect approximately two quarters of recession for 12 to 18 months of "growth."

This is the standard central bank game plan when there is a debt problem. Hit the inflation accelerator as much as possible and brake for brief periods of time only when necessary and as a way to fool the majority as to your long term ten year intentions.  These alternating cycles of inflation deflation will fool the majority as to the Fed's long term intentions to inflate and "grow" out of the bad debt problem.  While stocks will be unpredictable, volatile, and unexciting in terms of ten year returns, it will be possible to trade against the fed.  Buy treasuries as inflation fears peak and treasury prices are declining.  Sell treasuries as deflation becomes a concern and treasury prices are rising.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 23:29 | 1021339 uno
uno's picture

I agree it's rinse and repeat until the USD drops enough to hyperinflate home prices, in the meantime bribe people with food stamps, disability payments, probably legal pot and bigger prisons.

It serves wall street and DC to buy time for their looting.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 11:14 | 1021834 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

A feasible game plan in theory - but it I fear it requires a degree of god-like control over the markets that the central banks do not have. Like sterilizing a few trillions of newly created electronic $$. A repeat of Volcker is no-go - you would have to print the money to pay the interest which would be self defeating - Von Havenstein didn't manage it.

Sun, 03/06/2011 - 11:03 | 1023401 twotraps
twotraps's picture

Thank you for saying that......You just cannot shape the outcome at every turn and not expect some lash-back.  I don't mean to take the impossible to refute position that there may be come surprise outcome because its of course possible....but I think most here would agree that you eventually get hurt thinking you can manufacture Everything to your liking and expect it to still be a Market.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 17:58 | 1022441 snowball777
snowball777's picture

The Fed will inflate as much as they can.  Then they will allow natural deflationary forces to clear things out for a while.

Why not do both at the same time?

The deflation will be minimal.

FAIL!

Sun, 03/06/2011 - 09:11 | 1023302 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Goldie you are on to something for sure, The japanese invention and strategic ops model is the future for sure IMHO.

Frankly you are first to discuss this and congrats for bringing it up. We are so hell bent on believing the hyper inflate story that I have always believed something else was amiss.

The Adjustment Bureau is just way too stupid to just let hyper happen. The chairsatan all along I believe had a model like this in mind.

Let's face Japan kicking the sushi can down the road for 30 years after a depressionary collapse and still kciking?

Sounds like  a chairsatans' orgasm to me.

The problem is how do you trade it when the Adjustment Bureau, with expert networks and Larry macrofuckhead on the case are 6 moves behind you.

Wierd science this is.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 00:13 | 1021415 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Printing ad infinitum says The Bernank.

Thus, oil, silver and gold.

USO, SLV and GLD.

That's all you need to retire in comfort for the foreseeable future.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 17:29 | 1022410 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

SLV and GLD? You've got to be kidding.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 17:59 | 1022444 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Fuck paper.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 03:00 | 1021593 zebra
zebra's picture

Ben: " trillion? how many zeros do I need to add? Not a problem!"

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 04:04 | 1021624 BenLightYear
BenLightYear's picture

What would happen if we stopped printing? What i mean is what would happen if we set interest rates at a reasonable average rate of say 3.25% and left them there? What would happen if we changed the budget to where we broke even? If we lowered the budget and raised taxes? Aren't we in a perpetual state of holy shit? Is this not going to end badly? Is this not going to be a bumpier than shit ride no matter what we do? Why don't we stop the monetary and fiscal bull shit fiasco? Why don't we stand up and say "OK in the last 100 years some people fucked some stuff up and the 99% of the rest plead too dumb to have any clue what was happening;?

Can't we see that most economic models are flawed? Can't we see the correct parts and the incorrect parts of each clearly? Who the fuck is bernanke to sit in that chair and at best either show complete ignorance or corrupt mentality towards the very people who allow him to sit in that chair?

(bernanke i pick on only cause unlike most of our elected representatives he actually understands his god damn job...the number of our politicians who have no clue about the very things they vote on and how they work is 2nd only to the fact the majority of the country is unable or unwilling to see their complete lack of qualifications to make the laws and rules and create money/debt in our names)

Do we really need our lives to go through such a great trauma to wake up and at the very least pay attention? Do we not vote these people into office? Are we not the ones who choose the ones to coordinate our society?

Are they our leaders or are they the men and women we choose how to govern a nation with the sole intent and purpose of making every single citizens lives better and the future for our children brighter?

Their has to be a better way to make a country and economy function right? Are the ignorant majority and the crooked minority really so great that with our current level of knowledge we are honestly unable to provide a functioning and benefiting society?

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 13:58 | 1022015 buzzard
buzzard's picture

You were doing fine until the part about interest. Any interest at all means the economy must grow to pay for it. That is one of the great flaws of the capitalist system. We are entering an era of econonmic contraction. Not only will we not grow our way out but we must find ways to make a stasis economy. We must get rid of this notion of growth. It will kill us.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 04:49 | 1021635 BenLightYear
BenLightYear's picture

What if instead of the very small minority of us rewrote our fiscal and monetary policy? How about a group people who understand how it works ( i don't have a degree however in the last year i have read every single piece of econ theory, looked over every graph, chart, model, read every single argument against such that i could get my hands on) I by no means can fix this by myself. By no means am i capable of writing an economic play book by myself. To do so would require time and ability that i myself am unable to supply solely. If a group of 10 or so new school ( meaning we understand whats wrong and have ideas on how to fix it ) theorists got together and built, dissected and then reassembled an economic model that would actually work.

If we set basic fundamentals in regards to bank ratio, money creation, spending/taxation, regulated from corruption while not impeding business past oversight, regulated the risk associated with lending by institutions who should hold safe money, adopted a fair taxation rate which would be more fair based on cost of living compared to earnings ( I feel the amount of taxes people pay should skew from low to higher based on the fact that those who live grandly can afford it without it affecting their actual lifestyle...i am not proposing a 5%-95% range...i don't think it would need to be anywhere near as drastic) fix all the loopholes, money you earn is taxed a that the rising ratio based on the amount of money the govt spends the previous year...every years budget will include the tax rate ratio ( a constant ratio in reference to each other but vary from say 10%-50% one year to 12%-52% the following year thus for our govt to spend a dollar they must tax for that dollar) what if we wrote a true economic model...what if we took everything that we know base it off of where we are at ( people hate change however i think people would get more behind a change that was more fluid than abrupt) and wrote a govt fiscal and monetary playbook that worked and could not be disputed? If written and followed business would adapt, public and private wealth would adapt, and i believe both would strive knowing exactly what to expect and keeping the institutions that are meant to be solid aka banks, investments, insurance, under regulation that makes them the properly regulated environment they should be. Banks have no need to make large margins of profit. Naturally some bank policies would be regulated as needed to provide a low risk, highly solvent institution that can expand a small amount of money to provide growth but a more acceptable rate of growth ie natural growth or maybe .25% over natural.

If we write it we can fix it. If it was written so it worked and if we voted people into office who understand it, agree with it, and believe in it then they could put it into affect. As outlandish as this may sound it truly does not sound impossible or even impractical. By the time we finished it things will be at the point where more are willing to listen and look for a way to make things right.

We don't have too decide how much government or how little. We don't have to decide what the govt spends money on just he fact whatever they spend is taken back in with tax receipts the following year. Just simple economic ratio's that coordinate how to keep things in a steady environment with natural growth in a properly regulated environment. We stop our politicians from spending more than they pay for, a fed res that can not keep their hands off of monetary policy. ( i swear it's like a kid with a new toy especially now...each chairman believes he is so much smarter than the last chairman or the 100 years of economic thought he has been taught). We set the economic model and elect representatives who will keep the ratio's intact.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 14:02 | 1022018 buzzard
buzzard's picture

Again, you are talking about fine sounding abstract theories which are far more complex than they need to be. A completely new paradygm is needed last Tuesday.

Sun, 03/06/2011 - 02:30 | 1023125 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Tax rate would quickly end up at its highest level acceptable to the average taxpayer as the majority would elect people who promise most benefits within maximum tolerable tax rate. And once there it would never go down as noone gets elected by promising less.

Without a political organization to support you, it is highly unlikely that you could impact significant number of voters (let alone the sad fact that most are disinterested and/or unable to understand "complicated" ideas), so that's something you may want to consider before you start spending time on your project.

Good luck.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 05:35 | 1021658 BenLightYear
BenLightYear's picture

I have been reading this website for over 6 months now. Tyler I thank you for providing a place where I learn in one paragraph and laugh my ass off in the next. I praise you for supplying a viewpoint contrary to what most are led to believe. I am grateful to my friend who directed me hear. Like I said I have spend the better part of the last year reading everything i could get my hands on. I sometimes found I ran into the problem of being able to actually visualize what it was that I was reading and the commentary/debate on this site has helped. More often than not I find myself being more able to argue against what i see and hear not because i remember someone else told me it was wrong but because i can actually see and understand why it is wrong.

Tyler

I would like a response to the post I made right before this one. I would like you to answer me as too why a group of 10 or so people can not sit down and write a fiscal and monetary policy that in effect would work.

From what I have learned I truly believe their is an equation, a formula, a treatise that if followed would lead to a stable pro growth ( albeit it natural) dependable economy that although it would start off in a less than desired state if it was stuck too would lead to a stable and productive govt and economy over a short to long period of time.

I would like you to respond. I would like you too tell me that I clearly don't understand enough and that what i propose is beyond man's means.

If it is not beyond our means than I would like you too tell my why you would be against doing such.

If it is not beyond our means and if you are not against it then maybe its time we sit down and write a play book.

Maybe its time we gather a small # of capable and intelligent people and we create an economy that actually works. That actually functions. That actually has a future.

By no means am I the most capable man to do this. By no means do I think I myself am able to accomplish this. In no way do i think this is something a single person could sit down and do without 9 other people correcting his flaws, dissecting his flaws, and recreating the solution.

I see once in awhile you interject here and their. I noticed you dissect news ( alot of which is news that actually pertains to this countries and the global economies juggling act of incompetence, misunderstanding, misuse, and corruption that we would otherwise not come across through normal news channels) and then leave it up to us to further dissect and debate on. I have noticed that you don't jump into the arguments after your posting. I am aware there are im sure numerous reasons why this could be. I give you the benefit of the doubt as to your reasons and intentions.

However I am calling you out. I have sat here for quite awhile now wondering why if there are people smart enough out there to say why others are wrong then of that bunch some must be smart enough to actually fix it.

I would like a response. I would like an answer. If I am crazy or delusional than plz say just that and I will bother you no more. I will go back to reading and keeping to myself. However if I am not, if what i propose is doable then maybe its time we get to work

We now realize beyond any doubt that corruption and ignorance if allowed to continue unabated will eventually ruin even the strongest nation.

Is today the day we stop what started as arguably the greatest nation in history from the death spiral it is in?

I ASK YOU TYLER IS TODAY THAT DAY?

Sun, 03/06/2011 - 09:23 | 1023316 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Tyler typically gets the membership to respond.....

 

Your desire to fix things is both admirable and potentially doable.

The ten people you speak of are not enough. The powers that be , The Adjustment Bureau if you will,  control every facet of your society and control every mechanism of change.

After careful planning over the last 300 years the Adjustment Bureau controls everything. Your ten people cannot change a thing.

10 million people however can bend the Adjustment Bureau over and give them their just deserts and make fundamental change.A Bastille Day is required whereby the elites are jailed or worse.

I suggest however, before you do that you consider George Orwell's Animal Farm. It's one thing to overthrow the Bureau, it's another to run the system.

Oligarchical selfish tendencies types ALWAYS get their way and eventually 10,000 of your 10,000,000 fall to corruption and eventually a ten person group wins power after killing most of the others and a new smarter Adjustment Bureau is formed.

Then you ar eback to where you started.

Far better to better yourself and your family and grow out of the ooze like my family did 200 years ago. Start now and by 2200 your descendants will be part of the Adjustment Bureau.

Kind of bleak I know but..........................

cheers

 

Sorry but that's my 1 cent worth

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 05:58 | 1021678 Tense INDIAN
Sat, 03/05/2011 - 06:02 | 1021679 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture


Animal House - All Is Well!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 11:42 | 1021855 Jim B
Jim B's picture

Answer.... PRINT, PRINT, PRINT..........

Sun, 03/06/2011 - 21:50 | 1024860 MOAB
MOAB's picture

Gold 36000 you don't appear to be joking so I assume you think it IS possible:

This cycle will continue for about ten years until we have outgrown our debt.

I cant see how the US can even grow fast enough to keep up with the ever-growing debt let-alone OUTgrow it. And thats even assuming the USgovt - see wall street - even TRY.

Those that run the US are not trying to pay anything off or be responsible in any way. They are completely selfish, detached from any accountability, jerkoffs whose only ethos is to fuck as many people over as they can to become as rich as possible, and NEVER be held to account.

 

Mon, 03/07/2011 - 20:38 | 1028045 lsjcma
lsjcma's picture

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