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60 Minutes Overtime | Mortgage Mess: Who Really Owns Your Mortgage?
Mortgage mess: Who really owns your mortgage?
Do you know who really owns your mortgage? As Scott Pelley reports on
"60 Minutes" this week, that question has become a nightmare for many
homeowners since the invention of mortgage-backed securities. Yes, those
were the exotic investments that sparked the financial collapse in this
country. And the're still causing problems.
As it turns
out, Wall Street cut corners when it bundled homeowners' mortgages into
securities that were traded from investor to investor. Now that banks
are foreclosing on people, they're finding that the legal documents
behind many mortgages are missing. So, what do the banks do? As Pelley
explains in this video, some companies appear to be resorting to forgery
and phony paperwork in what looks like a nationwide epidemic.
Even if you're not at risk of foreclosure, there could be legal
ramifications for a homeowner if the chain of title has been lost. Watch
the "60 Minutes" report and listen to Pelley's discussion with "60
Minutes Overtime" editor Ann Silvio about the findings of his reporting
team.
Have
you contacted your mortgage servicing company to find out whether your
mortgage has been bundled and sold? Did you get a clear answer and a
copy of your mortgage paperwork to back it up?
www.4closureFraud.org
»
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what a joke.
I'm not sure a 'quiet title' action is currently going to solve this, but it is well worth the effort to prove out However, I personally witnessed a successful court action years ago in Cuyahoga County, Oh, that is available for anyone who cares to take the time to review it. It has remained a memorable event in my life.
It was filed by J. Harvey Crow, who was 93 at the time and an attorney. The property originally included the current site of The Louis Stokes VA Medical Center-BrecksvilleAddress:, OH. The Federal government acquired their site by Force Majure, according to J. Harvey and he made an annual habit of suing them for any impact to his remaining property and they usually settled with him.
J. Harvey, filed against Broadview Savings and Loan, I believe, but may be mistaken about the specific bank, (25 years +) to settle his mortgage and then sued to invalidate the mortgage because the settlement amount was incorrect. He won and the mortgage was invalidated and removed, however a later action filed by the bank allowed a lien to be filed. No one in our legal dept. (Oil and Gas producer) had ever seen anything like this, but a legal precedent is a legal precedent. In the case of an invalid note, this case, I believe, is well worth researching, as a subsequent lien case would be unable to be pursued by any lender with no valid chain of title. IMHO
Full transparency in govt and big business is the first mandatory step to shine the light on the criminals and must be demanded by the public; otherwise, one is a fool to participate in such a corrupt system!
Notice how there is not even a hint by the government to prosecute anyone for fraud. These docs went through the mail, this makes it mail fraud as well. (Remember the movie "The Firm"?) This should result in an infinite number of years in jail for the bank and mortgage originator executives that made, sold, bought and packaged the loans and the people at the company that actually manufactured the fraudulent documents. The companies should have to pay billions in fines. I will be shocked to see the Justice Department do their job. Notice the FDIC is just looking for a deal, which the banks will fight forever.
Now the whole economic system is on the verge of collapse. At some point, the population will decide that paying a mortgage is for suckers. Millions just might stop paying. Then everything melts down.
http://www.TheAngryGrapes.Com
Why did Martha Stewart go to jail for doing next to nothing and the bankers who have destroyed trillions of dollars of capital assets are walking about free.
Several important points were not made in the 60 minutes program. First, many mortgages were put into more than one finance entity.
Second, if you are making regular payments on your mortgage there is no guarantee the bank will be able to find your title when you have completed your payments. In other words, you may pay for 30 years and then discover no one is able to find your title to pass title to you.
Exactly!
I've paid on time, yet the bank will not honor my request to show me the note.
Why should I continue to pay them if they can not fulfill their end of the deal?
you absolutely shouldnt.....but its hard to miss that first payment, after thats is very easy and feels even better
This has become a war against the banks, who have every intention of collecting and foreclosing best they can, despite the procedures used in the past. But those living rent free will be dealt with eventually, although it will take years. The banks made poor choices, and individual employees also made bad choices - sometimes immoral - in policy and procedure. It is easier to be angry with the freeloaders - as they are making choices that affect all of us PEOPLE, thinking they are thumbing their noses at the BANKS or the SYSTEM. They need to get a grip and realize those two things are ultimately just people too.
Like road rage, where drivers see a car, not a person, the moral outrage at banks is better saved for the immoral, greedy individual employees or executives that helped create a system destined to fail. I also reserve my outrage for any individual who thinks they are doing anything other than stooping to that same level by not meeting their obligations. The system stinks, it is dirty and corrupt, but if you don't like it, then don't sign on the dotted line and borrow hundreds of thousands you can't pay back. That is no better.
way too late , they already signed on the dotted line HOWEVER the banks dont even have wet ink proof of that
I contacted Wells Fargo and there response was to send me copies of the "original signature" docs but in regards to the title and I quote:
""You will notice your original note was not included. Please be advised that WFHM does not disberse out original documents. However, WFHM is servicing a valid loan and lien on this property.
All inquiries and concerns should be address with us as servicer of your loan. THERE IS NOT A SPECIFIC INVESTOR ON YOUR LOAN AS THERE ARE MULTIPLE INVESTORS. THE POOL OF LOANS IS MANAGED ON BEHALF OF THE THE INVESTORS BY U.S. BANK, N.A. AND THEIR ADDRESS IS:
U.S. BANK, N.A......
BLAH
BLAH
ALTHOUGH WE ARE PROVIDING THIS INFORMATION, THE TRUSTEE WILL MORE THAN LIKELY REFER YOU BACK TO US TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONSABOUT THE LOAN OR SERVICING THE LOAN.
Round Robin....
Round robin? More like one big happy con of a circle jerk.
...and YOU get the soggy biscuit.
I received nothing back from Chase when I requested proof of the note (by certified mail).
They didn't include your note because most likely they don't have it. My mortgage has gone through several diferent banks (started at Wa Mu and after several transfers ended up at Chase) and I'm pretty sure they don't have it. That breaks a lot of RESPA regulations by not replying - not that the big banks care, you know, they have their own set of rules...
I've paid this mortgage on time, for now, AND am contacting an attorney to file for Quiet Title, and if that doesn't go through and no one wants to play by the "Rule of Law" ...then it just might be time to make my own set of rules...
Sounds from above like your "multiple investors" could mean "your property in multiple MBS"
RESPA is the word of the day. Look it up people.
Nor did I, after three demands, the last by REGISTERED mail. I know who signed for it.
Two weeks ago filed a quiet title action that I am forcing through as quickly as possible.
I'll know soon.....hell, I'll take it to trial if need be.
Be interesting to see if they even show up.
Keep us informed JohnG
Why would you file a quiet title action? The cases to date have been in defense of invalid foreclosures... What is your hope here? You realize that even if there is an unenforceable mortgage out there, you've still got the note to contend with, right? What is your prospective solution for the note? You planning on selling your home to a straw man once the title is cleared? What then of your deficiency? Do you have a family? Are you willing to commit fraud for this pursuit? What is your end game?
Further, practically speaking, it's one thing for a foreign bank to file documents that are false in a lawsuit to boot out a homeowner... it's a total other thing for a homeowner to file a lawsuit seeking a handout... your relative equities change... and, further, you bear the burden of proof as plaintiff... very, very important distinctions...
Best of luck to you, but I see you going nowhere other than to the poor house paying your attorney to nip at the bank's heels. In addition, DO NOT GO TO TRIAL... do you really want to keep your underwater POS house? The whole game here is to force their hands, make them do work. Take a settlement.
..by the way....now seems to be the time to offer cash to banks for houses. There are some good deals. You have to have the balz to make lowball offers and get laughed at a few times in arkansas, but in florida the houses are selling at an 80 percent discount when 20,000 dollars will replace pipes and wiring and just about double your initial investment on a.home that sold for 250,000 initially. If u r still angry at bankers it feels good to make insultingly low offers.
Yeah, but just make sure that it doesn't contain any toxic Chinese dry wall, because you probably won't be able to get home insurance for it, or maybe even live in it (if you don't value your health so much). And, of course, you will thoroughly investigate the chain of title, and whether you'll be able to get title insurance, won't you?
Hey bankster tool, you might want to read this and get a clue-by-4:
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/real-estate/court-busted-securitizatio...
fuck-n-bitchez.
Title insurance??
Can't find the article now, but I read that Fannie/Freddie are not reporting the losses to the title companies so that the companies can stay afloat. Yep, you and I will be paying that tab.
Title insurance is a thing of the past. A lot of those boys are getting out of that business.
remember how well derivatives against failure, but from companies like AIG protected the banks when there was massive failures...what happens if 25 or 50 percent of homeownership is contested? Where will your title insurance companies be then?
AIG protected banks? Well, who do you think owns AIG now?
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/who-owns-a-i-g-a-continuing-story/?hp
Ya, that would be the American Taxpayer.
4closurefraud is a site that operates on fantasy not fact.
The "mortgage mess" is not a much of a mess as reported by people like this.
The banks all know who owns which mortgage. While some of the procedures the banks used have since been invalidated since they were done, banks are not fighting over how owns which mortgage and who should forclose. The only one making this an issue are the squatter that are not paying mortgages that they took out ands the idiots in charge of this country that got us into the mess to begin with.
@ Just_Looking. While there may be agreement among the assignment chain before the end bag holder, I am not sure the bag holder agrees. Meaning, if these assets are toxic and valued less than the value of original purchase, then the securities purchaser is not/should not be in agreement. This is basically the fundamental hold-up to the foreclosure process (outside of solvency of the financial institutions of course). If the bag holders were on board, then a declaratory action could be made with the entire assignment chain and a court could determine the real holder... then that party could foreclose and the proceeds from sale would be divided according to their private agreement.
However, if you sell toxic shit and the bag holder has a chance to bail and stuff them back on you, guess what's going to happen? Further, what person along the assignment chain would agree to allow a predecessor assignor (the real holder) to pursue foreclosure without a settlement in place for the proceeds and/or repayment for the price of assignment?
"4closurefraud is a site that operates on fantasy not fact." You appear to be either appallingly ignorant, or wilfully disingenuous. 4closurefraud has as much credibility as 'the Market-Ticker', or 'Naked Capitalism', or 'Dr. Housing Bubble' or any number of credible sites out there which are devoted to exposing the rampant financial FRAUD and CORRUPTION in the United States, and elsewhere. Or 'Zero Hedge', for that matter. And if you don't think this site has credibility, WHY ARE YOU HERE?
If you'll check the stats on several of the folks who are disparaging the article's intent you'll find them short-timers. Can you spell T-R-O-L-L ? Maybe just "TOOL of TPTB" would suffice.
Now that the squatters are not paying their mortgages they have more disposable income than before, which is why we see retail sales increasing. They have their cake and are eating it too.
So true.
It is pretty clear who owns the motgages even if there have been paperwork glitches. It looks like this will all be smoothed over with the obama administration with a 20 billion dollar contribution by the banks. Then obama will declare victory over the banks. I hope all you hopey changey obama supporters get warm fuzzies when you think about how obama has saved homeowners
If it's really clear who owns it, they should have no difficulty proving it without resorting to a fabricated allonge, then, right?
Since chain of title is 100% clear and all the mortgages were conveyed to their respective trusts properly, they won't mind in the least if we start opening up some of these REMICs to make sure they complied with NY state trust law, and that no one ever *considered* fraudulently selling the same mortgage into different trusts, right?
So, let's just go ahead and analyze a few REMICs. Just for giggles.
paperwork glitches? do you know what property law is?
paperwork glitches seems like another name for perjury (lying on a document that is sworn to under oath) but for some reason, banks and their agents don't get prosecuted for perjury.
could you imagine what would happen to a homeowner who filed a forged "satisfaction of mortgage"?
The only way you'd get prosecuted for perjury is if the document is filed in a lawsuit...
You might want to do some further reading -
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/real-estate/court-busted-securitizatio...
If it was such a big secret then it wouldn't be on 60 minutes.
So, it's even less of a 'big secret' now, isn't it? Which is a GOOD thing, right? Unless you're a bank?
60 minutes is Obama's poodle. Why anyone with intelligence over 80 would be watching it, much less quoting it, or taking it seriously is beyond belief.
please, the viewership of 60 minutes is huge and plenty of 20 somethings and 40 somethings have sent me the link to the video of this online. If you think Obama or any ordinary politician (except the most sincere, radical, uncorrupted ones) wants this story pursued, amplified, you are have partisan blinders on your eyes. Establishment politicians on both sides, the sellouts, so want to sweep this MASSIVE problem away. Courts are finding that there is no legal way for banks/servicers to prove their claim on peoples houses, the way they were doing it ended up being completely fraudulent and counter to local/state property law. Even those not in foreclosure have broken titles. Cash settlements does not make this problem go away but they wish it would. 60 Minutes whatever their bias or demographics of their viewership, did the regular folks of U.S. a great favor by further exposing this.
Mortgage? What mortgage? We don't need no steenkin' mortgage!
File for a QUIET TITLE and if nothing appears from the banksters... #winning :)
The quiet title action is only good against the parties you haul to court... given that assignments are unrecorded and the chain is, at least sometimes, irretrievably broken, how is it you propose to name the entire chain? So, you are going to depose EVERY assignee/assignor? Hope you've got a big checkbook for that retainer fee...