You're now on the archive server. Commenting has been disabled.
650,000 Jobs Created or Saved, According to the White House. But Please... Stand Up If...
You didn't think the spending of $150 billion of the $787 billion recovery package was done for nothing did you?
They're on-track, too, on their way to creating "3.5 million jobs by the time this program winds down..." says the Administrations' economist Jared Bernstein today.
Though, the numbers are complex, and the process for tallying everything is, well, complicated too, Tim Dowd, chief of Input a research company that tracks government spending says "There will be a lot of discrepancies in the data... Those discrepancies will grow significantly, not because of malicious intent but because of the complexity..."
Really? Who would have ever thought of "malicious intent?!"
And I'm sure, the discrepancies will grow significantly... With the claims, that is.
But someone, as Tami Luhby too of CNNMoney also wants to know- please let us know if your job has been created or saved due to stimulus spending...
Com'on down.....
»
- 2470 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
These numbers have been largely fudged. Federal agecies that hire are counting people 3-1 or even 4-1. Thats all I can say.
I, for one, am thrilled that my tax dollars went as raises to daycare workers in Florida, and was then counted as creating new jobs.
If you take the stimulus total and divide by the population of the US, how much would we each have gotten if they had just distributed the money? How many of us feel we got our money's worth from the stimulus?
I guess we need to do census updates every year now because of the outflux of people leaving the great country now known as the Retarded States of America.
This is terrible news! This implies that we are essentially paying $230K per new job created. That's a lot higher than most Amercian's make, and it would suggest that a more efficient form of employment is available if left to the private sector to figure out. Talk about a government multiplier!
Disgraceful!
It works out to about 2300 dollars for every man, woman and child in the US (787B/330M) And no, I know I did not get my money's worth, heck I didn't even get a good night kiss!
And I'm sure someone at the Whitehouse is tracking the current and future jobs destroyed by the stimulus as well. When does that data get released Jared?
Opportunity cost? What's that? Haven't you heard -- no such thing in Keynesian economics, government knows best!
Single variable economics. It's the wave of the future. I believe there is an article on Finem Respice (http://finemrespice.com/node/69) about the Microsoft Hurricane Machine that talks about this pretty eloquently.
one variable is about all the Ritalin addicted populace has the attention span to focus on.
$150bn/650,000 = $230,000 per job. And many of these jobs aren't even full-time gigs. This is absurd waste of money.
"jobs saved or created" is a completely made-up statistic that is impossible to disprove. What a frigging joke.
That's just starting pay for a bankster/squid analyst position. I guess NYC should see its tax receipts skyrocketing. I mean, that must be where all these $230,000 a year jobs are being created, right? Unless it's like a massive hiring of primary care physicians at 50% above the existing average salary for them?
CNNmoney=Communist News Network
It could also be said that MILLIONS of jobs have been DESTROYED or SUPPRESSED by this administration and Congress. If not for all the SHAMULUS and Fed Intervention, we might have already been on our way out of this mess ORGANICALLY, with stronger banks taking over from failed banks, and good businesses gaining market share from weak ones. Every jobless number we get from this point forth could be argued as a job destroyed by Congress and Obama admin, with no job creation taking place anywhere but China or Fed Gov.
I see a lot of people standing at 85 Broad
I am a novice on these numbers, but aren't we losing 500k jobs a week right now?
Yes. Our 4-wk average has been running above 500K for about a year. Not since the brutal recession when Volcker raised interest rates dramatically to break inflation did we experience anything like this. For perspective, this chart shows where we are now, and what a "normal" recession looks like.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SumOB_7gtjI/AAAAAAAAGqg/X4v1uvGrtIA/s1600-h/WeeklyClaimsOct29.jpg
And yet we've had a historic rally despite punk economic data even with heavy medication via Banana Ben's printing press.
This is very complicated, something that those at ZH could never understand. See this new accounting includes counting and recounting, then multiplied by X factor doubled and again counted until positive creation becomes evident. These calculations are done over and over bringing us to the figure 650k to 1 million. note: WH continues to work these numbers and should see 2 million by next week.
I would think the government should then share its methodology on how it determines if the stimulus 'created' the job... or if it was simply capitalistic enterprise which created the job.
Additionally, I have seen the jobs in our city that have been 'created' with the stimulus... and they are simply jobs that existed prior to the stimulus... but without the stimulus would have been lost. The illusion of 'creation of jobs' at this point is completely futile against the continuing stream of lost jobs... that will never to be regained.
What a crazy concept for the government to even bring up at this point... it makes them look ridiculous since I know multiple people who have lost their job... yet I know absolutely no one whose job was newly created by the stimulus program.
The AP review found some counts were more than 10 times as high as the actual number of jobs; some jobs credited to the stimulus program were counted two and sometimes more than four times; and other jobs were credited to stimulus spending when none was produced.
Officials at East Central Technical College in Douglas, Ga., said they now know they shouldn't have claimed 280 stimulus jobs linked to more than $200,000 to buy trucks and trailers for commercial driving instruction, and a modular classroom and bathroom for a health education program.
"It was an error on someone's part," said Mike Light, spokesman for the Technical College System of Georgia. The 280 were not jobs, but the number of students who would benefit, he said.
http://www.fox5vegas.com/money/21459841/detail.html
That is nice... real nice... if the underlying data which supports this confabulated job creation number is that off... what other statistical numbers are we receiving from the government which is based on 'trash underlying data'...
I'd estimate about 95% of the data that is reported.
For example: How much of the info is 'modeled'? Just about all of it. If I remember correctly, models don't always work so well if you're pushing an agenda (think RMBS/CMBS). Also, what are the statistics behind these numbers (ie N, ranges, stdev)?
My first accounting professor said it best: "The first digit in any number on any company's financial statements is probably 95% correct. The second number is probably 50% correct, and the subsequent numbers are meaningless. Managers can massage earnings and the balance sheet to get whatever they want. Do you really think GE knows they earned $1.3XXX billion dollars last year? Or the cash flows are $1.3XXX billion?"
If GE or any Fortune 500 company knows anything with that level of precision, what are the chances the economic and government models are precise?
How about the "jobs created" in call centers that lasted two weeks and five weeks, or the 129 jobs "saved" because they used funds to give a 3.9% raise and some people had been leaving because they hadn't had a raise in 4 years?
This is such a fraud that even the MSM which has been in the bag for Obama can't stomach it. If the White House continues to make up this nonsense instead of making the story go away, this administration is going to become a source of ridicule beyond the normal partisan divide just like the Bush administration was.
the whole notion that the government "creates" jobs flies in the face of all rational economic thought.
To it's credit, the Obama administration is doing a marvelous job of suspending the laws of economics.
In all seriousness, the administration is doing an excellent job changing (or perhaps reinforcing for some) people's perception to believe that government is the answer. If the government is the only one "creating" jobs, we all become more dependent on it for our livelihood. I distinctly recall at the beginning of his term, Obama plainly said, "Wall Street got us into this mess and only government can get us out". The man truly believes that more government is the answer and wants people to become dependent on it for nearly everything. He is no friend to the private sector.
wonder if this story is "oh please let us be back in your good graces Messiah" after the edmunds.com cash for clunker disaster story run yesterday
Add in 5M they lost due to not enforcing the fucking laws they created and you get a big minus 4M jobs lost
Notice how they've significantly moved the goal posts? At the beginning it was 3.5 - 4 million jobs by the end of 2010. Now its "3.5 million jobs by the time this program winds down". Well, the program "winds down" in 2019. Nothing like a 9 year difference.
There have probably been at least a few dozen jobs created in government to make up flawed methodology, cast about for numbers, twist the numbers and report the twisted numbers associated with the ridiculous unquantifiable idea of "jobs created or saved".
Even if it hasn't created new government jobs, it has saved jobs by giving idle or underutilized government employees something unproductive to do with their time.
I lost my job at the beginning of October.
I'm a college student in Colorado, which has a "7 percent-ish unemployment rate."
In my Business Communication class on Wednesday nights SIX out of EIGHTEEN people have lost their jobs since the beginning of the semester, and five of those since the beginning of October.
6/18 isn't seven percent.
Now maybe my class is skewed or something, but 6/18 sure doesn't represent a small unemployment rate.
I also attend night classes, where most people are at least in their later twenties and many are even older. It's not like we lost jobs at Burger King here. Three were bookkeepers or accountants or some kind, one worked in an insurance company, and I don't know the other two, but they weren't the fry guy!
Ignoring for a moment the fraud of counting the same positions multiple times or inflating the counts with ghost workers, where is the sustainability in any of this? When 50 guys are brought in for a 'shovel ready' project, what happens to them when the project is complete?
I would like to know how many jobs have been prevented from being created and/or destroyed as a result of the uncertainty associated with the health care bill, cap and trade, income and capital gains taxes going up in 13 months, and a weaker dollar which is crushing small and medium size businesses who only do business in the U.S.
Can someone quantify that? I have a feeling it's way over 650,000. Especially if one uses Christina Romer's own multiplier effects for tax increases on the economy.
I work for a major vendor to a major bank. My job was saved by the bailout, no doubt. If the bank were allowed to go down I'da been on the street the next day. But Im sure the aggregate cost to society was nowhere near the benefit. On the micro (Mike-ro) level, phew. On the macro, we're still fucked!
Saved not created however :-)
Funny that Jamie Dimon, CEO of JPM which is the largest financial institution in the good ol' USofA by market cap, "doesn't know" whether or not the stimulus created any new jobs...
...if anyone would know you'd think he would.
How could he be unaware of 650,000 new jobs, if in fact they were created??
So, I know a guy who was working in the clean power industry -- electrical engineering type. Even though his company got some stimulus money, his job got cut and moved to India.
So, good news folks, your stimulus money might be going to India.
Correct, and every one of them thieves on Fraud Street.
- Duke Fuckem.
You Sir, are obviously a raaaaacist.
I work for a legitimate non-profit. One that actually provides direct and necessary service to the community and isn't simply a vehicle to shuffle some rich guy's tax dollars back into his own pocket, or a hangout for pimps, prostitutes, skig-skags, and skallywags.
That being said, I've seen firsthand how these numbers are allocated and counted.
We received about $70,000 from the ARRA. It has not saved my job directly, but has created a tremendous amount of more work for me trying to figure out whose jobs were saved/created.
Here's what I've got so far: Out of 70,000 - we've hired about 6 part-timers and 3 full timers. Despite not being entirely tied to that money (most are also funded from an aggregate of many different sources) - that's how the feds want us to count it and how they take credit for it.
If a position receives 99% from a traditional source and 1% from ARRA, it is a job saved/created by ARRA.
In reality, 3 of those were replacement positions for individuals who left the organization of their own accord, but whose previous funding was lost or decreased. To be fair, 4 or 5 of the 9 may have not been replaced (in the exact same capacity)- but we will never know for sure.
In aggregate - I'd say 70k got us 2-3 full time equivalents beyond what would have occurred without the $$. But that is just an educated guess. the counting is so convoluted.
It's obviously not that simple, but it's about 24k per full-time job - which in turn allowed us the ability to generate other revenues to cover the rest of the salaries for those positions and others. It has had an effect.
In our specific instance, which I'm sure is not par for the course, it has been a much needed and relatively effective use of "free" money, as a stop gap measure for other lost funding sources. Is it the most effective use? Probably not, but it has provided bridge financing in an important way - despite all of the absurd requirements that come with it.
Was it worth it? I'm 55/45 towards No, but I'll have to tell you in 2010. It definitely saved and created critical work.
that's as impartial as I can be.
American jobs?
Great news, the jobs saved or created by the American Recovery Act has gone up from 650,000 to 1 million overnight. See the video on the front page of Bloomberg's website with White House economic advisor Bernstein. The 650,000 jobs are just the ones directly created or saved. Those people plus people drawing unemployment benefits spent money on stuff, thereby creating or saving another 350,000 jobs.
You have to see it to believe it.
With Halloween spurring last minute spending by the people whose jobs were saved or created and the people drawing unemployment, the count should be up to 1.1 million or so by Monday.
Of the 650,000 jobs created or saved, are any of them in the United States?
You can go to www.recovery.org and see where the money is being spent.
Reminds me a lot of Japan's infamous bridges to nowhere and a lot of these projects look they are catching up on deferred maintenance as well..
Neel Kashkari is still standing.
If the numbers on the cash you carry in your pocket are misleading, how can you believe any of the other numbers the government puts out???
the only jobs blobama saved or created were in the birth / death model.....otherwise the indonesian fraud can go fuck himself....
www.obamacrimes.com
didn't tyler put out a piece last week on a state by state basis showing how many jobs had been created/saved. recovery.org
memory serves, 5.9 jobs created in rhode island?
hmmmmm: recovery.org 30,000 jobs vs. white house 650,000 jobs?
lucky recovery.org is not edmunds.com or foxnews.com, otherwise they might suffer the wrath of the WH (silly me i thought barack was all about transparency)
Everybody at my company was treated with a 2 percent pay decrease. And I'm sure we can expect some more lay offs in the next month or two. Let's hear it for the stimulus!
That's a lot of jobs overnight....maybe they are all being paid in candy to dress up and say 'trick or treat'? That could be considered a newly created job, right?
George W Bush and his dimwit US Labor Secretary, Elaine Chao, missed their monthly jobs creation target every month for 8 years, proof that Republican tax cuts do not work to create jobs. The labor available in India and China is way too large. Elaine Chao's name rarely, if ever, appeared in the media.
Well, Elaine Chao had connections to China and support for India for which she couldn't just admit openly.
Why would she want to talk?
The only worse person that they could have brought in Carly "H1-b cheerleader" Fiorina.
What a coincidence!
I'm an appellate lawyer at a local DA's office in Georgia, and I was just informed today that my office received ARRA funds to hire a more experienced appellate lawyer to be my supervisor. The Feds will fund the new position for a year, and then my job is going to be eliminated so we can continue to pay the more experienced lawyer to do what was formerly my job.
Go ARRA!!!
At $230,000 per job (if you even believe the 650,000 figure), no wonder money multiplier is at an all-time low!
Cash for Clunkers...Cost to taxpayer per each automobile purchased: $24,000
Cash for First-Time Homebuyers...Cost to taxpayer per each new home purchased: $47,000
Cash for Obama Administration "Green Job/Green Shoots" Stimulus Jobs...Cost to taxpayer per each job created or saved $1,210,769
Number of jobs and businesses intenionally destroyed by the Cash for Clunkers/Cash for Houses and Stimulus bills...too many to count!
Cash for anyone willing to eat their U.S. Congressman on Utube...Priceless
No surprise. It’s well known that the government’s economic numbers are bogus, even after they’ve been revised umpteen times. This time around, the obvious sleight of hand is intended to impact next week’s elections. No doubt Barry and the job-killing libtards will once again declare war on anyone (Edmunds) who challenges their bullshit.
Reality check: Keynesian economics has a perfect track record -- it has never worked before; it’s not working now; and it will not work in the future.
I work for a public university, stimulus funds were used to replace 22 million in funding the state withdrew. I kept my job and avoided the unpaid furloughs and wage cuts my colleagues at other institutions have had to endure. My wife has won a post doctoral appointment funded by the National Institutes of Health from stimulus funds.