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Up To 67% Of Phoenix Homes Are Underwater

Tyler Durden's picture


Jay Butler, head of Realty Studies at ASU, was interviewed by ABC15 in Arizona saying that the number of underwater homes in Phoenix may be as high as 66-67%. This means a complete bloodbath for housing prices is still just beyond the horizon, not to mention that the true state of bank (and GSE) balance sheets is deplorable, and if there was even an ounce of reporting or mark-to-market integrity, most banks would be completely insolvent right now.



And since we now live in a land of endless home-payment subsidies, here is how Fannie Mae is responding to this once in a lifetime perfect storm, courtesy of its program, which is now requiring just 3% down for a home purchase (worse than pretty much anything during the housing bubble), and according to some interpretations, requiring essentially no money down after one factors the various consumer-level government stimulus payments. That this will all end in another real estate bloodbath is the clearest writing on the wall ever.

h/t Housing Doom



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Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:05 | 578638 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

This city shall rise from the ashes like a...GM's subprime-business model.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 12:54 | 578639 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I'm not up to snuff on my mythology, does the Phoenix always arise from the ashes?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:25 | 578873 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

The key concept being "ashes".

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 16:46 | 579257 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Fire is necessary for the healthy forest.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 17:46 | 579376 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

indeed it is. but man keeps trying to put out all the forest fires in the west, anyway. just like this god damn government keeps putting out all this disaster crisis and this depression with fake money, water . similar, ah, throwing good money or water to control natural events. it's like they think they have power over nature and gravity. americano's at least, believe man has the power to control, nope. w i n d   water   s u n (fire)   earth.

healthy forests, pine beetle winning.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:40 | 578921 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

your funny cause south Arizona is like living amongst the ashes.

the phoenix/bennu was originally a symbol for the rise, fall, and return pattern of the sun. later, the creature also became a symbol for the human journey of life, death and rebirth.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 12:55 | 578641 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

How does that definition of insanity go?  Something about repeating the same action over and over......

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 12:58 | 578646 Bluntly Put
Bluntly Put's picture

I left Phoenix a few months ago, Phoenix had structured most of it's economy on housing, other than Motorola and Intel there is little tech or manufacturing. Talk about malinvestments. I think the City has downsized it's planning and development departments by over 60%. I'm sure there will be deals to be made in Cave Creek where subdivisions to nowhere have been constructed, 4,000 sq foot homes 40 miles from nowhere. I'm glad I left when I did. No offence folks in Phoenix/Scottsdale but you got a whole lot more pain in the pike.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:53 | 578791 pitz
pitz's picture

Motorola hasn't been doing so well, and Intel's way of doing business is to bring in a bunch of foreigners on the H1-B visa program, instead of hiring local people with a long-term committment to the community.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 12:59 | 578648 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Before this is all said and done, the only requirement needed to qualify for a mortgage will be a voter registration card.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:12 | 578683 breezer1
breezer1's picture

a library card, if you can find one not closed down.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 22:32 | 579821 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

lol or a Zero Hedge profile

no collateral required for non- anonymous profiles, anonymous ones must put up 0.5% equity to loan

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:20 | 578701 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

And remember, when all is said and done, a lot more gets said than done...

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:27 | 578721 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

when all is said and done, a lot more gets said than done


bumper sticker

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:58 | 578804 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Steam on a mirror

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:25 | 578875 pitz
pitz's picture

Mortgages won't exist once everything is said and done.  Cash only, bitches! 

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:28 | 578886 kalum
kalum's picture

A drivers license. We give them here in NM to anyone who appears alive.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 12:59 | 578652 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Phoenix...LMFAO...get real.  Come see me in Detroit and I'll show you the real ugly side of this story.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 12:59 | 578653 Gromit
Gromit's picture

and the other 33% are free and clear?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 17:02 | 578723 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Work on your spin, or you will never make it in the new normal...

Making mortgage payments is still not a problem for thousands of Phoenix home owners as economists continue to see signs of a recovery in housing.  Pulte Homes' stock confirms this recovery as it has exploded up more than 8% in the last month.

Horse shit...familiarity improves recognition.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 12:59 | 578655 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

And still, the Banksters are enjoying themselves down in the Bahamas.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:25 | 578713 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Rusty, that was so serene, sweet, and wonderful. Really wish I had been there. Nice Post.

Please don't insult pigs like that anymore. Okay? I mean, I hate to pull out the big guns but I could bring in the Humane Society on this. I don't want to, but, ya know, pigs have rights.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:51 | 578784 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

 - umm, good point MsCreant, I will make a formal apology to the pigs.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 19:11 | 579506 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

There are a couple of them kicking your front door in, even as I type this....

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 16:52 | 579265 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Today's bankers, tomorrows Chorizo con Huevos

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:57 | 578756 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Did you notice the Bankster pigs keep swimming no matter what? They head for the boat, but if nothing is proffered, they keep on moving. It's either paddle like hell or sink (sleep?) with the fishes.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:00 | 578656 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Too late. The market is immuned to bad news. What else ya got?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:05 | 578665 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Ron Paul just got elected president? Would that do it?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:07 | 578673 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Don't tease me like that.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:21 | 578705 myshadow
myshadow's picture

well, congress is there. so, no.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:27 | 578722 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Needs a total sweep, even the staffers. I agree. And then we are still hosed.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:19 | 578860 Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

Honestly, this is a worst-case scenario. If Paul and other right-thinking people came to power, immediately audited the fed, ended fiat currency, and perhaps even defaulted on existing debt obligations, the resulting turmoil would be blamed on them, even though they would merely have catalyzed a reaction that had been building for almost a century. 

What's needed is for TPTB to stay in power all the way to the bitter end, so everyone will know EXACTLY who's fault it all was.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:35 | 578913 Shameful
Shameful's picture

The problem with this is what are the chances they will be able to hold on?  Do a party swap, scape goat the foreigners or minority ethnic group and kick off a new wave of tyranny.

You give the average person to much credit.  The vast majority will simply root for their color, blue or red while the ship burns.  And after the ship is sunk they will likely continue to vote for their favorite team.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 16:18 | 579189 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Joe sixpack will need no help...  this party crashes on its own.  Regional political power prohibited them from passing the baton to a single world government...  the noose tightens...  trust me, it will be painfully obvious who is to blame.

I'm not saying we'll do anything about it or even be in a position to do something should we desire on the backside of this thing...  but J6P will be well aware of who is to blame and no amount of propaganda or fear mongering will sustain the lie.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 17:27 | 579340 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

 The antibodies in the system (FED cartel) would not allow him to be elected.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:01 | 578658 jbc77
jbc77's picture

No problem. Listen boys, as long as the fed keeps buying stocks twice a week, whos gives a rats ass, right? Nothing to see here, perfectly normal when over 50% in a major city are underwated. Whats wrong with that? Dow is up today.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:11 | 578679 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Spoken like a true protege.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:02 | 578659 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Up To 67% Of Phoenix Homes Are Underwater

How ironic that one of the driest cities in America could be so flooded under bad debt.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:05 | 578666 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:33 | 578735 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Good morning, Cog Dis!

Hey, my brother forwarded a song to me - some (two) of most poular words used on ZH. It's a catchy little ditty.  Enjoy.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:45 | 578762 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Village Idiot,
That's one the very few song and video links that I've really enjoyed!


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:15 | 578848 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

If I remember correctly Deadwood set the record for F bombs per episode, didn't it? Personally I loved it. When used properly, as I believe it was in Deadwood, it's almost poetic.

The only G rated place out west in the 1800's (and early 1900's) was on TV. Where being presentable in public was defined as making sure you wore your cleanest dirty shirt, swearing was part of the everyday language.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 16:35 | 579229 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Good one, Rusty. 

If I had just closed my eyes and listened, I would have thought it was just one of our morning meetings at the last big job I worked on.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 19:57 | 579600 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

HA, I've been in few meetings like that !!

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:06 | 578829 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

LOL, very nice.

It does appear that Cee Lo Green is contributing to the delinquency of minors with the lyrics, but it's all in fun, right? :>)

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:11 | 578837 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Oh, one more thing - zh is a community. Peace.

Sent from my I phone.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:16 | 578852 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Apparently many disagree with my supposition.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:28 | 578883 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I think it is a community for some, and not all, and that is okay. Modern life in the RW is like this too, locals who hang out, others who drift in and out. It is okay to be both. I also think for some this is a home base, stop in, check your perspective against others, move on, come back after a while, it's still here.

It's all good. What disparagers think is irrelevant. They know what their experience is for them and that is okay. I know what my experience is like for me. How could I be "wrong?" It's mine. :-) As I see it, no conflict.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:49 | 578947 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:33 | 578888 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

So let's dedicate this song to them - fuck you.

Edit: Shit out ofsequence I am trying to do this from my crackberry while I shop for laxative - kid is constipated - never mind. Out.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 15:53 | 579118 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Here comes the prescription for...

constipation is >polyethylene glycol (Miralax). It causes water to remain in the stool resulting in softer stools.

It's also a component of corexit. 


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:47 | 578942 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

no, they think down below, are huge aquifer's from heaven and McCain.

no problem, aquifer, bitches.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 17:01 | 579279 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Ha! Monsoon Season. There is water, it's just transitory, and sweeps away everything as it rushes down stream.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:04 | 578664 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

A "bubble" is not just one sphere in the case of the housing bubble.  It's a conglomeration of bubbles, all of different sizes.  The whole housing market is volatile and in a constant state of flux.  The movement of people (migration, if you will) is going to be the determining factor.  Of course, if there is no job to be had, or a retirement environment that is attractive, there will be no housing acquisition in the biggest bubble markets.  The government is just adding water to the bathtub.  All that does is move the bubbles around and affect their individual sizes a bit.  Draining the tub will attenuate the mess.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:05 | 578669 midtowng
midtowng's picture

That's OK. The Chinese will buy our homes. I remember being told that during the housing bubble, so it must be true.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:08 | 578674 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Chinese aren't buying their own houses. From what people gwt out of their state run media, there are many vacant new homes sitting.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:31 | 578729 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

Well, they might buy the house, but they sure as shit can't afford to come visit.  Them sumbitches be po'!!

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:09 | 578675 Teaser
Teaser's picture

With this many houses underwater in Pheonix, why hasn't FEMA been notified?  When Bush put 67% of New Orleans underwater, the media crucified him.  Obama puts 67% of Phoenix underwater, and no one says a word.  Do we just like New Orleans better than Pheonix?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:02 | 578812 midtowng
midtowng's picture

"Do we just like New Orleans better than Pheonix?"

That would be "yes".

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 17:18 | 579322 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Not sure Bush or Obama caused either situation, their reactions (solutions?) to the situations should be equally crucified.

Do you think Bush could have done more to prevent the crisis in Phoenix than Obama?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:10 | 578678 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

flooding in Phoenix? must be global warming...

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 19:15 | 579517 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Apparently you've not been in Phoenix in January.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:12 | 578682 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Sad and funny at the same time. 

Dick Bove says 44 out of 45 US banks already have met the 2019 capital standards. Buffett says NO chance of double dip. 

Meanwhile millions of Americans live in constant stress concerning their mortgages, jobs, etc. 

Oh, and look at the REITs today. To the moon! Will be interesting if the PPT tries to rally stocks again today, or if they will let the controlled decline throughout the day...

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:13 | 578684 AnonymousMonetarist
AnonymousMonetarist's picture

Can you imagine someone at Smells Fargo, a bankster coven heralded as one of the strongest that in reality is the granddaddy of insolvency, coming out and saying, 'We aren't just insolvent, we aren't just double secret insolvent we are cosmic s%*t sandwich insolvent..., hell we could gulp down another TARP whole and still be gurgling for oxygen. I mean seriously folks we got about 1.7 trillion in QSPE and I'd be damned if I could find a handful of that crap that would realistically be 90% of par (maybe the quadruple A stuff) and brother the whole boatload would have to get to 94% to not wipe out in total our Tier One Kapital. We are Tier None. We've shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-BANK!!'

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:17 | 578694 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Sadly, if this exact event occurred, no one would give a shit.  Nothing would change.

Act accordingly.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 17:32 | 579348 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

"We are cosmic shit sandwich insolvent."

Now THAT, is a bumper sticker.

Beautiful alliteration too.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 20:53 | 579676 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Reminds me of the "Dead Parrot Sketch"

You wanna be a lumberjack, right?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:15 | 578691 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Bullish. It's not a bubble if people are buying into it


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:16 | 578692 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

expecting housing to lead the "recovery" is like expecting to lead out of the 2000 recession.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:50 | 578774 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I wonder if they made more money on their sock puppet sales, or shipping big bags of dog food to people at slim margins (shipping for free?). Negative net margins? Oh, but we'll make it up on volume... hahaha. 

I remember fondly when a company would add a ".com" to their company name and the stock would pop 30% in one day. Sad. 

OT: Well into September and volume does not seem to have returned...

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:18 | 578697 No More Bubbles
No More Bubbles's picture

Why are so many "experts" expecting an improvement would have happened by now, or will soon?


These experts should meet a guillotine!

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 16:38 | 579238 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

@ Bubbles

Looking at your avatar - does "braaaap" mean anything to you?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:19 | 578698 Segestan
Segestan's picture

If government policy can't hold or push-up the price , than hyperinflation will result. Oh, never mind it's hyper baked into the cake already.Got Gold?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:28 | 578725 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

"Got Gold?"

Yes, but.... ups... my wife, having no deep financial knowledge,  just cooked it yesterday.

Have to by new provisions.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:20 | 578700 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

Seems like our economy these days is kinda like Dick Cheney.  Walking, blood-flowing, talking, and shitting but without an actual pulse.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:27 | 578718 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I like how you left out "breathing". . .


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:06 | 578825 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

Hah, thanks.  Apparently there's some Cheney fans around.  My (bad...intentionally) joke referred to Cheney's new heart pump, that moves his blood but leaves him without an actual pulse.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:36 | 578742 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture


.. wanking and blood-sucking.. (must be a tyfo..)

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 17:41 | 579367 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Another dejunk for you.

What, does Dick have that many aliases on ZH?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:21 | 578704 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

Just take simple solution proven to work twice in Europe: World War on own ground.

But without heroic street fighting please - wooden walls don't stop bullets!


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:21 | 578707 oddjob
oddjob's picture

'head of Realty Studies at ASU'

fucking awesome title,did his grandfather serve ice on the Titanic?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:55 | 578960 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

hell, Realtors got a capital R. you don't receive that honor by being an ice server, now do  U, oddjob?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:24 | 578712 mark@dirtbags
mark@dirtbags's picture

Knowing multiple homeowners in AZ, lots of them made a killing on their first home and used that equity to upgrade into another mansion. So, they may be under water, but from the start, there are not that bad off....yet.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:34 | 578736 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

some of those flippers also bought their "summer homes" at cooler elevations in Flagstaff, pushing up the prices beyond the reach of locals (oh, the story of the decade, repeated ad nauseam), leaving neighbourhoods dotted with houses only used a few times a year, no community wanted/needed. . .


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 15:15 | 579007 IE
IE's picture

Seriously?  They're not bad off?  If people are  under water, that means they lost all that previously rolled-equity.  That situation is commonplace for people who "made a killing" on their previous place.  They might have put 50% down on a mansion - but guess what?  The price is now 55% lower!  So they're paying on debt more than their assets will ever be worth again.  And you characterize them as "not bad off"? 

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:26 | 578719 Eureka Springs
Eureka Springs's picture

Headlines like this will surely put the onion out of business.


Maybe the city of Phoenix should use the image of Morticia cutting dead roses as their new mascot. Of course this could all be good for Hover Dam which is rumored to run out of enough water to generate power as soon as 2013.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:27 | 578724 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

A lot of Chinese into Las Vegas, but they have gambling and whores. 

Detroit and Phoenix not so much.

The general US economy took a 30% haircut.  Eventually, so too will stabilized housing prices and everyone's income.

The real unreported survival story are families moving their kids and parents under one roof.  Three generations under one roof is not a bad thing, social security to fill in the blanks, free child care, maybe the kids can learn a thing or two from an older generation that knew something about character and the difference between right and wrong.  What was the US like before WW2?  Watch and find out for yourself.

If you have the cash and the rents are right, its a smart time to buy, but the banks still have tricks up their sleeves.  Why sell the homes when you can be a landlord forever?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:32 | 578734 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

I'll wait 2 years before I buy.

With the shadow inventory still waiting to throw-up, why rush ..?


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:32 | 578732 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture

My dental-field-dedicated financial advisor (a serious ZH reader), says dentists in Phoenix are especially hard hit, some filing bankruptcy this month.  He's "never seen anything like it." 

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:34 | 578907 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

That makes me happy that the dentists are taking a good hit.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:32 | 578733 Glasgow Gary
Glasgow Gary's picture

Phoenix has no future. More to the point: just about every relentless global trend, from declining wages to expensive energy, to water issues, is now set to work against a city like Pheonix. It's population, given resources, would be better suited at around 100K people. We'll see Pheonix decline, and shrink, for decades. Zero growth. Forever.


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:13 | 578788 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

ROFL.  When people don't think, they say nothing.

Now first off.  No one on this Earth has a future.  But not because of the environment, because of the economic system.  Thus whether or not we survive isn't a matter of fate, but choice.

We choose private owned debt over the general welfare of the U.S., or anywhere in the world.  Where else do you think it goes when this is the stated preferred method of recourse.   Austerity for bailouts. Less fire coverage, more fires.  See if you can find a fucked up statistical model that shows you that isn't the case.  Notice any fires recently? Not here in phx, but around the country?

Now as for Phx.  Water is not a problem.  Ever heard of NAWAPA? Must not of.  It's an actual idea, but the retards don't want it. 

Not to mention when the earth is covered with ~70 percent ocean, only the short sighted fool would say water should EVER be an issue on this world.

Expensive energy? Why? Nuclear costs 1.5 cents per kw/h if done right.  Fusion would be a million fold power capacity increase beyond whatever we do.  Only idiots want fossil fuels or GREEN *wasteful* bullshit.


No the only way Phx goes down, is if the REST OF THE WORLD, and of course all of my fellow USA goes down.  With Dumb in charge (Nerobama) and Dumber ready to take over (Republicans...including Ron 'I'm the idiot that believes gov't should not do anything' Paul ), its a certain the crap will hit the fan.  But then again the republicans won't even put Paul (their bast candidate) up.  Idiots.


When the pubs (pronounced PUBES) take back power and show Wall Street they are the old professional whore who really knows how to polish them off, and of course doing the same thing Obama is doing, because Obama is following the republican's playbook.

Lots of people who just don't know reality, but are quite ready to accept doom by the same people they hate so much.  It's beyond idiocy. 

Will Phx go down? No more or less than EVERYONE ELSE.  So suck it up. Impeach Obama.  Pass NAWAPA.  Glass/Steagall or Die.  Point the finger at the biggest idiots, the republicans, and actually fix our problems with the real solutions that have been in hand since the beginning.  ALL OF THIS was unneeded.  It was a CHOICE, by those we put in power to go down this road. 

This is the part where the people should take there heads out of the sand, not put them in it. Obama bought the republican wall street bullshit and made it the democrats problem now, coupled with clinton it looks damning. 

But people would have to be dumb fuck clueless retards to not realize where the ideas came from, and whose cocks they would suck harder and more frequently when they are in power.  The republicans.  Just like our national republican retarded distraction fiasco, sb 1070.  SB1070 the opium for the republican dumbass masses.  More republican bs is on the way, as if the 40 years paradighm we live in that was created by the republicans, wasn't theirs. 

Does anyone really realize that with a dead locked congress, whatever is the CURRENT law will be the LASTING LAW until at least 2012?  That means good ol' helicopter ben has all the power in the world to do whatever he wants, and congress won't be able to stop him.  Because we know how the republicans will vote then. 

Also realize our numbers of being underwater, really aren't any different from every other house in the U.S., and pretty much WORLD.

Impeach NerObama.  Pass NAWAPA. Pass Glass/Steagall.

Creative destruction my ass.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:38 | 578919 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

Bringing water from Alaska creates more issues than it solves.  We can't build enough nuclear fast enough to meet and replace our rising energy consumption, let alone dedicate enough nuclear to desalinization because as you say "dumb fuck clueless retards" want to live in a desert.

By the way, I love the Sonoran desert...but living within it, unless you adapt and adopt the sacrifices of living in a desert, is sheer stupidity, these residents will be the first to fall off the evolutionary ladder.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:53 | 578955 ShatteredArm
ShatteredArm's picture

Exactly.  Why is Phoenix in any worse shape than, say, Los Angeles?  Last I checked, Los Angeles relies more heavily on the Colorado River watershed than Phoenix.  Said watershed is shared by Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles.  Phoenix, otoh, has 100% of the rights to the Salt River and Verde River watersheds.  The Salt is overflowing right now, and the river is running for the first time since probably 1990.  What people who say Phoenix should only have 100k residents fail to comprehend is that before the suburbs were built up, that land was farm land, which required more water than stucco houses. 

Sure, when the Colorado River allotment runs out, people in Phoenix might need to redo some landscaping or make more use of reclaimed water for landscaping, but the city is not going to die because of the water problem.

They just need to stop building new houses for a couple of decades, and everything will be fine (relative to the rest of the country).

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 15:07 | 578992 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

thanks ShatteredArm

your quite knowledgeable about the west's water woes.

ever read. damn good insight.

Cadillac Desert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mon, 09/13/2010 - 16:17 | 579187 ex VRWC
ex VRWC's picture

'The Salt is overflowing' Sure, because the Tempe Town Lake dam burst!

Phoenix will not die because of water woes, in the short term.  It is dying because of empty strip malls and upside down real estate.  It was the poster child for the real estate boom, where it's economy blew up quickly as the housing bubble ramped.  It is dying now because the housing bubble is bursting.  It is dying now because it has been hit hard by outsourcing in industries like aviation.  Phoenix is indeed in worse shape the LA, as an example, because of these things.

ex VRWC - longtime Phoenix resident, sitting and typing in an office building in Phoenix with 45% vacancy, like most of them around here.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 16:30 | 579218 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

LA, invented, devised, built, and invested in phoenix, their winter getaway. golf courses, damn.

check out the wasteland they call the desert between tucson and phoenix. what a mess, just an incredible dust bowl with ghost subdivisions, now. talk about another scary death to south Arizona, or as

Max Keiser calls it.


border, bitchez


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 17:28 | 579339 ex VRWC
ex VRWC's picture

Queen Creek, indeed.   Developers to Phoenix - 'What we need is a few more Eloys in this state'. So they built them.  Darlings of developers to ghost towns in a few short years.   North Mexico is even closer than that though.  Five or six miles from here, in Phoenix.  Parts of town where no sign is in English, and you would swear you were at a strip mall in Juarez.  Minus the corpses hanging from overpasses of course (at least yet, give it time).


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 17:54 | 579388 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

oh yeah, i have direct experience. between the white old farts (snow birds) limping around to life and no sign in english, no thank you. when the revolution comes, i don't think my GPS positioning is very great, here in NORTH MEXICO.

what is a VRWC

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 18:00 | 579401 ex VRWC
ex VRWC's picture

Sir Rodham C. Hillary coined the term a few years back - the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy that was out to get Billy-boy.  The moniker refers to a journey into post-partisan thinking.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 18:02 | 579405 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

I can't figure out if you're brilliant, psychotic or an idiot.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 18:33 | 579452 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

don't rule out all 3 .

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 19:35 | 579550 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

I shall remain open to all possibilities.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 21:04 | 579698 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Ya get that feeling a lot around this site...

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 19:48 | 579582 ShatteredArm
ShatteredArm's picture

It's true that the economy was overly dependent on construction.  It was a bubble.  That's why I said in 10-20 years, when natural population growth catches up with existing housing inventory, it will be fine.  While Phoenix does have problems with outsourcing, every city has those problems.  You think Phoenix has it any worse than Detroit?  Aviation leaving Phoenix (generalized: offshored manufacturing) is a United States issue, not a Phoenix issue.

Phoenix definitely has its challenges, but it's nothing like the poster a couple levels above mine stated.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:34 | 578737 NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

Fed and financial institutions pulling out all stops to keep market and housing prices afloat in hope of an economic miracle.  See the article about Affordable too can buy home with as little as .67 down, if you have it.

No mark-to-market and banks put a million people in homes at current market prices you've just successfully kicked the can down the road for at least another 18 months.  Surely there will be an economic miracle by then... 

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:38 | 578750 Donutwarrior
Donutwarrior's picture

Excellent, so I'm not alone here in the Valley of the Sun in my underwater state.....most of my neighbors are in there with me.  At least the surrounding desert will stay undeveloped for a while...

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:55 | 578798 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

Y'all are sounding like Spring 2009 again.

No worries lads.  Sooner or later we'll get a for-real-this-time 1000 point DOW crash which will stick around and cleanse the sinuses like a whiff of smelling salts.  Why be short? 

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 13:59 | 578806 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

Screw it.  I have put 2 properties under contract to purchase in the last 10 days.  I might add that they both were superb buys. 

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:03 | 578814 Gromit
Gromit's picture

What did you buy?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:45 | 578934 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Why buy now when you can get anything you want free soon when the shit hits the fan?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:51 | 578950 Gromit
Gromit's picture

There are plenty of opportunities for people who work hard and know what they are doing.

RS is a pro and I'm genuinely interested in where he is finding value.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 18:03 | 579416 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

There is opportunity out there Gromit.  Just like always though, it never knocks.  The people that thought it knocked on their doors are the ones under water right now.  Profitable opportunities have to be found and they are few and far between.  I think the key is to purchase at VERY deep discounts and too not get in a situation where someone else can end up owning your property. 

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:16 | 578851 iota
iota's picture

What the fuck was the thing dangling above the guys head in the first video?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:19 | 578858 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Either a tree branch moving in the wind or a voodoo charm used to ward off falling home prices.

I say voodoo.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:46 | 578938 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture

You do?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:52 | 578952 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I do....voodoo that you?

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 15:12 | 579001 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

now see, you have gone cuckO_O, along with your vO_OdO_O.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:41 | 578924 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

A UFO, aliens need NINJA loans too!

Tue, 09/14/2010 - 17:04 | 581711 iota
iota's picture

I can just see Kang & Kodos beefing about whether the market's hit bottom.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:17 | 578854 JimboJammer
JimboJammer's picture

Down  the  street  from  me  is  a  house  for  sale

Remax  sign  says  >>>   no  down  payment

100 %  financing..     What  a  deal..

Here  we  go  again.... 

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:33 | 578905 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

Pitkin County includes the city of Aspen, Colorado. probably a lot of second and third homes in Scottsdale, AZ.

Foreclosure filings have topped the 100 mark this year in Pitkin County, and as of last week were just under the total number filed in all of 2009.

There were 105 foreclosure filings in 2009; so far this year, the Pitkin County treasurer’s office has received 103.

Pitkin County foreclosures approaching new record
Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:37 | 578917 redpill
redpill's picture

Not surprising.  On average, homes in Phoenix have 85% of purchase price financed, meaning directly after a transaction they start out with about 15% equity.

In 2008 average transaction prices dropped by 22% and in 2009 by another 28%.

Any home purchased from about 2004 onward would have had all their equity wiped out.  Just since 2005 there have been over 700,000 residential transactions in Phoenix.


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:44 | 578933 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Youre saying 2008 and 2009 combined home prices have dropped 50%? Not around here they havent, not even a 10 drop in 'home valuations' nothing near it. Its the FED's job to assure bank balance sheets never drop!

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 15:59 | 579019 redpill
redpill's picture

double post, site is broken today

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 15:24 | 579030 redpill
redpill's picture

I'm not "saying" anything, I'm just relating some basic calculations performed on deed transactions in Phoenix over the last few years.  But hey, maybe the county recorder lied about all of them, what do I know!

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:42 | 578931 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Saw a house yesterday in a quite upscale neighborhood thats been for sale for 12 months and now has a 'deep price slash' sign out front. Used to be a waiting list for any house buyers in that area.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:46 | 578941 Argos
Argos's picture

I live in Phoenix, Paradise Valley actually, which is a town within the city.  Anyway, just got my property taxes in the mail.  Funny how values are WAY down, and my property tax, and everyone else on the nearest 2 block radius went up 20 to 25%! 

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 14:56 | 578964 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The same budget divided into a smaller grand total assessment means higher property taxes for some and lower for others. Of course, it'snow evenly apportioned. Theoretically.

How long have you lived in the same home? How often does your town reappraise the property that's being taxed? 

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 21:07 | 579708 Argos
Argos's picture

Bought the place during the last major downturn 1989.  County reappraises every two years.  What they did was greatly increase the limited cash value and decrease the full cash value.  The taxes are computed on the limited value using their secret "formula".  There's a house three doors down going up for auction end of the month.  Can't wait to see what it goes for.  They will have to use THAT price for the next valuation.  A friend of mine is a realtor, just signed papers on a house that was listed for $950,000.  It sold for $350,000.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 15:21 | 579021 LostWages
LostWages's picture

Las Vegas and Phoenix are very similar.  As a real estate agent in LV, I would say we are easily 65-70% underwater, with everything built and sold after 2004 more has seen values drop by more than 60%. 

If prices stop falling, and with a 3% annual appreciation rate, it will take over 20 years for most owners to get back to even.  This is why the "strategic default" option is increasing in popularity in this city.


Mon, 09/13/2010 - 18:42 | 579034 LostWages
LostWages's picture



Mon, 09/13/2010 - 16:22 | 579200 Djirk
Djirk's picture

was there a flood, did a damn break, that is a lot of houses underwater? I feel bad for the pets.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 17:56 | 579391 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

you should feel bad for the pets, even if their owners aren't underwater. i swear the pets get the raw end of the deal, for these sorry ass people.

Mon, 09/13/2010 - 19:23 | 579531 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

The coming bloodbath is certainly not being reflected the current pricing for condos and single family homes...

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 07:46 | 606844 Herry12
Herry12's picture

Thank u, i found this for a long time.
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Tue, 02/08/2011 - 04:38 | 942367 shawnlee
shawnlee's picture

Normal summer consolidation and the 1Y0-A23 pattern of the PPT and affilliated Bullion banks slamming gold just before the jobs report is what took the market down and recent revelation in regard to BIS being blatantly involved in the Bullion manipulation game and now bailing out a massive "commercial" read "bullion" bank are LX0-102 probably an indication that we are seeing some large financial entities that are taking off take of physical metals and there is a consequent commercial signal failure. Normal summer consolidation and the pattern of the PPT and affilliated Bullion E20-322 banks slamming gold just before the jobs report is what took the market down and recent revelation in regard to BIS being blatantly involved in the Bullion manipulation game and now bailing out a massive "commercial" read "bullion" bank are probably an HP0-J38 indication that we are seeing some large financial entities that are taking off take of physical metals and there is a consequent commercial signal failure.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 00:42 | 1014073 george22
george22's picture

Las Vegas and Phoenix are very similar. As a real estate agent in LV, I would say we are easily 65-70% underwater, with everything built and sold after 2004 more has seen values drop by more than 60%.

If prices stop falling, and with a 3% annual appreciation rate, it will take over 20 years for most owners to get back to even. This is why the "strategic default" option is increasing in popularity in this city.

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Sat, 03/05/2011 - 05:46 | 1021671 shawnlee
shawnlee's picture

Las Vegas and Phoenix are very similar. As a real estate agent in LV, I would say we are easily 65-70% underwater, with everything built and sold after 2004 more has seen values drop by more than 60%. links of london

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