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71% Oppose Raising Debt Ceiling As Congress Prepares To Ignore Supermajority's Wishes Again

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Just in case there was any confusion that congress (and its Wall Street superiors) almost work for the majority, but not quite, here is some additional evidence: "The U.S. public
overwhelmingly opposes raising the country's debt limit even though
failure to do so could hurt America's international standing and push up
borrowing costs, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on
Wednesday.
Some 71 percent of those surveyed oppose
increasing the borrowing authority,
the focus of a brewing political
battle over federal spending. Only 18 percent support an increase
." Yet somehow the market has already factored in that no matter what happens, Congress has no choice but to continue heaping on the debt, and following this week's auctions, the total should approach $14.1 trillion in debt, cutting the buffer by another $100 billion. Which is why expect to hear many more threats of untold destruction should Congress actually side with the supermajority for once.

More from Reuters:

The poll underscores the tough task ahead for U.S. lawmakers as the debt nears its current ceiling of $14.3 trillion. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner last week warned that a failure to raise the borrowing limit in the coming months could lead to "catastrophic economic consequences".

Republicans, who won control of the House of Representatives in November on a promise to scale back government, hope to pair any debt-ceiling hike with a commitment from President Barack Obama to reduce long-term spending.

Republicans have vowed to slash $60 billion from the budget as soon as March, but many of those cuts are not likely to be popular with the public.

Just as amusing is the popular response on which programs are "cuttable":

Only 24 percent say the country can afford to cut back on education spending, a likely Republican target, and 21 percent support cuts to law enforcement.

With the Pentagon fighting wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, 51 percent supported cutbacks to military spending.

Less than half, 45 percent, support an expected Republican effort to pare environmental enforcement.

Some 53 percent support cutting the budgets of financial regulators like the Securities and Exchange Commission, in spite of the widespread consensus that a lax regulatory atmosphere contributed to the devastating financial crisis of 2007-2009.

And 47 percent support cutbacks to national parks, which were shuttered for several weeks during the budget battles of 1995 and 1996.

So there you have it: take money from the SEC's porn and hush money taxpayer funded sinking fund, and put it back into the Treasury. We are fairly confident that backdoor deals for SEC "enforcers" will provide sufficient loopholes for the grossly incompetent to continue living in abject corruptin-funded splendor.

 


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Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:32 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

You can keep your Libertarian ways, cause it's only just a phase, for it's money, money, money makes the world go round! :-)

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:49 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

Sounds like a drug addict - always needs more than the previous hit.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:57 | Link to Comment bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

thanksh mishter bartender may i jusht get one mo fo the road.............................buuuuiccckkkkkkk

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:01 | Link to Comment Turd Ferguson
Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:06 | Link to Comment bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

yeah i kind of thought silv/gold would be doing better today with what is going down today with that.  my miners getting squashed a bit too.

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:04 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Quite the slap in the face of the supermajority. Supermajority, sounds pretty hollow to me. If 71% cannot move things their way, will 75% be able to?

Maybe the Uber-supermajority needs to step into this debate? 

We are seeing the floors between the pyramidic structure of Grabberment. Floors that transmit nothing up and allow crap to filter down un-checked.

1984, in so many more ways.

If you junk me, I'll truly believe we live in a diss-topia ;-)

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/evolution-devolution-involution/

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:19 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

No, it's actually quite the opposite. The supermajority is getting exactly what it wants:  no meaningful cuts to defense and the government will keep its damn hands off their medicare and social security. 

Cutting any of these in a meaningful (i.e. budget-balancing) way will get your Uber-supermajority to step in a hell of a lot faster than an abstract argument over an arbitrary number.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:03 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Dealy Plaza and your Lincoln convertible sedan await you, your Highness! :>D

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:04 | Link to Comment Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

Stuff like this is so stupid.  If on expands the poll question to say do you support not raising the debt limit even though it would mean social security benefits would not be paid, medicare would stop, assistance to the poor would cease and the wars would end?  Then see what kind of answers you get.  Americans are incurious and don't realize what the budget looks lik because if they did it would reveal that allthe money is going to the bankers and they might get upset.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:08 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

When $9Billion in fresh Benji's can "disappear" in Afghanistan (and Iraq too!), then it's high time for significant cuts in Military spending!

Sorry, gramps, but continuing to rely on "Big Brother" means you're gonna be starving soon.  Just what is the big deal with accepting charity?  It's NOT just for little brown children.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:23 | Link to Comment caconhma
caconhma's picture

The American Ruling Elite and its puppets in the Congress do not give a shit about America "little people". They, the Ruling Elite, are 100% right. American people are so fking stupid they do not deserve any better.

PS

May be soap kitchens will help clearing some iPad filthy minds.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:34 | Link to Comment Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Yea but how many of them were self flagellating teatards?  These are the same people who thought Cheney was the man when he said deficits don't matter.

 

In the age of QE, not only do deficits not matter, neither do tax revenues. Fuck this theater, they could just as easily cook the books. What is the point of this debt ceiling?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:37 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

+2

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:38 | Link to Comment Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

It's great to be in a recovery... Everything is just fine..  Washington will fix this.. I have faith... /sarc off/

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:43 | Link to Comment homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

"Yea but how many of them were self flagellating teatards?" Obviously this number does not exceed the self flagellating Cratheads that took over as a supermajority since 2008. Sorry, but picking between the least painful of the poisons, I'd much rather have a "teatard" in office rather than some 'Crat who thinks spending other people's money is a God-given right.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:56 | Link to Comment Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

lol, good for you, initiate Operation Austerity!  We deserve it for losing so bad in Afghanistan.  I'm not a democrat BTW, those balless cocksuckers make me physically ill.

 

I'm just saying these fiscal conservatives were nothing of the sort during our misadventures in the desert.  What if we had cost plus programs here in the states?  Just set garbage trucks and police cars that get flat tires on fire so we could get brand new ones? 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

They (tea party) are nothing of the sort now.  They are political opportunists who sensed that 'austerity' was a good election buzz word.  It got them elected now they will do what they are told.

There is no hope that this problem will be fixed through political action.

The cliff is approaching rapidly.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:14 | Link to Comment B9K9
B9K9's picture

"This" problem has been around since at least before 1913. If it wasn't for the discovery of major oil finds (in practically sequential order as each respective crisis arose) in TX, the ME, Alaska, N Sea, Mexico, etc, these issues might have already come to head in various regional locales. Now, as it stands, it will be a global event.

And yes, the conflict is (and was) never going to be 'fixed' through any established political process. But the major, and I mean really big, mistake the vast majority of prols make is assuming the power-elite: (a) don't know this fact themselves; and (b) haven't been busily preparing like little bees in the interim.

The oligarchs have controlled capital and have enslaved the prols through debt, regulations, taxes and various positive laws for many, many generations. They sit at the funnel & control all the resource collection points to ensure they will survive humanity's next destination with history.

Will they? Only if the prols wake up and begin to think a few steps ahead.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:18 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Will they? Only if the prols wake up and begin to think a few steps ahead.

Heavy sleepersl only wake AFTER the nightmare.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:54 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

At least the Democrats are up front about being communists. The Republicans still call themselves "conservative". LOL!

"compassionate conservative" = Friendly Fascist.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:44 | Link to Comment BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

The debt ceiling is irrelevant isn't it? Haven't they exceeded it before with no consequences at all?

People say they are against it because they don't want bail outs, but if they knew it meant most government services halting they would probably do just like congress says and print more money and pass the pain to their kids.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:25 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 BobPaulson,

Aye, there's the rub,

which "services" would be cut?

not the foreign military occupations, which most voters oppose,

nor the "financial support" for the TBTF banks.

 No, instead

I believe the elite would open the prisons and shut down the FAA if they thought it would help gain acquiescence to their policies. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:11 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Those books have passed through the Al Dente stage some time ago. :(

In politics, perception is everything, I guess -- something your avatar would know quite a bit about...  (Looks like J. Goebbels to me)

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:33 | Link to Comment bonddude
bonddude's picture

Yeah and last night in SF the devil said he's worried about muni debt...

agrees w/ M Whitney.

/fd...scoopin' up the gold.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:34 | Link to Comment FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Covert dictatorship, plain and simple.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:59 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Really?

Maybe better to remember that all it takes in a democracy, that's a majority to vote away the rights of the minority.

Some 71 percent of those surveyed oppose increasing the borrowing authority, the focus of a brewing political battle over federal spending. Only 18 percent support an increase

 

Once again, it is another meaningful example.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:14 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Right, because our Republican representative form of Govt is doing such a fine job of making the hard, fiscal decisions that we elected them to do! </sarc>

Maybe the majority needs to get medieval on their @sses once in a while!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:34 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

As long as they promise not to raise the debt ceiling when it's at 100 trillion, it's just fine.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 13:50 | Link to Comment cxl9
cxl9's picture

Why don't they simply index it to inflation?  ;)

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:36 | Link to Comment lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

I doubt that 29% of the total American population know what the debt ceiling is, how it works and that it is not so much a ceiling but rather a target.

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:56 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Maybe those who got foreclosed would know?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:12 | Link to Comment subqtaneous
subqtaneous's picture

one man's ceiling is another man's . . . target!

 

gotta write that one down before somebody else blags that!  ;-)

 

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:36 | Link to Comment 101 years and c...
101 years and counting's picture

apparently, the masses dont realize the world will end if the ceiling isn't raised to infinity....

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:37 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Its ok. They will raise the debt ceiling and it will piss of lots of people. But what the hell, they have another two years to placate the plebs and with the current attention span of <2weeks, it will matter not.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:39 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

They have to put on a show of gnashing their teeth and agonizing over it for the benefit of the CHinese and the rest of our foreign creditors. A Greek tragedy in one act: Doebtipus Rex. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:39 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

They always reject it for "show" in the beginning.

Eventually they will all cave in and more Infinite Fiat will be spewing out of the Fed.

Any wonder why stocks are at new 2-year highs again?

Tough to fight the Fed.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:43 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

One trick pony Robo wheels out basically the same line he's been posting for over a year.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:50 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Maybe he does but it's the truth. You can't fight the worlds largest hedge fund hell bent on buying up everything.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:53 | Link to Comment goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

Yeah, ya can

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:53 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Fighting the FED is bad for your health, period.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:00 | Link to Comment umop episdn
umop episdn's picture

I fail to see how owning gold and silver is bad for my health. No more chasing the bankster paper for me, bitchez!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:17 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

How does purchasing/owning gold and silver "fight" the Fed?  I understand it's purpose from the standpoint of wealth preservation, but does the Fed really care what the price of PM's are?  I pretty seriously doubt they do.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:42 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

they care about people realizing it's a better currency than paper that can be debased on a whim. the raison-d'etre of central banks is to be able to control the money supply, which they couldn't do if the market were allowed to choose the currency.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:18 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Fighting the Fed is bad for your fiscal health but good for your soul.

ORI

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:16 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

That's the spirit!  Rage against the machine!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:29 | Link to Comment ZakuKommander
ZakuKommander's picture

Indeed.  Robo merely points out the obvious truth that when we see the fix being put in place, we would be foolish to avoid equities simply and solely because the fix wars with our principles.  

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:35 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you also can't fight math. This game will end, badly

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:15 | Link to Comment docj
docj's picture

Sure, Robo is a 1-trick pony SD-1.  But you have to admit, recent history - and by recent I mean since like 1940 - would seem to indicate he's right.  Right?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:51 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Expectations of inflation.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:39 | Link to Comment eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

If you don't raise the debt ceiling, the US will default now. Otherwise, the US will default later. It's just a choice between now and the future.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:59 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

It's all about kicking the can until the fleecing of middle-class American is complete. Once all the private debt has been shifted over to the public (excluding the middle-class debt that is) the plug will be pulled and suddenly the rich and powerful will decree the terribly high deficit.

Mark my words. This is an old playbook they are using only this time with modern weapons of mass financial destruction.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:37 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Genghis would be proud

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

>If you don't raise the debt ceiling, the US will default now.

Wrong. There are several ways the government can get around it for a while.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:41 | Link to Comment dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Why do they bother with a 'debt ceiling' if they're going to raise it each time it comes up?  Pure theatre...

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

It's been increased 71 times since 1940.

We should call it the never-ending ceiling...

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:27 | Link to Comment mouser98
mouser98's picture

otherwise known as the sky?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:38 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

go high enough and you burn on the way back down

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:04 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

Neel Kashkari ("cash carry") was a fool to ask for ONLY $700 billion. He should have asked for $700 TRILLION - that would have given USA years more "growth". Paul Krugman would have been proud. LOL! /sarcasm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neel_Kashkari

 

"Kashkari earned an MBA from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania in 2002" <-- he's a Keynesian intellectual.

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 15:14 | Link to Comment ZeroHour
ZeroHour's picture

"Keynesian intellectual."

 

There is no such thing as those 2 terms are mutually exclusive.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:41 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Kabuki theatre.  Next.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:33 | Link to Comment bonddude
bonddude's picture

This qualifies on a small scale but is happening everywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMUKvI2Ywjs

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:42 | Link to Comment Larry Darrell
Larry Darrell's picture

If they don't raise the debt ceiling, they'll just keep printing with the qualifier that they are still below the (newly created) debt roof.  And once they pass that point they will still be below the debt troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, exosphere, space, etc.

QE inifinity. BTFD.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:47 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Dips have been outlawed.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:42 | Link to Comment treemagnet
treemagnet's picture

Does it even matter when Ben is doing what he want, when he wants, and how he wants?  Lets get it over with, raise the fucker another trillion or ten, 'cause until earnings are compressed and go negative, gas costs $6, and such, does something as trivial about an abritrary debt ceiling even matter - cause it hasn't yet.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:43 | Link to Comment RunningMan
RunningMan's picture

At least there is no more illusion that we live in a democracy. Revolution 2.0. Our founding fathers saw that this day would come eventually.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:06 | Link to Comment cclaeys
cclaeys's picture

careful or you will be poegged "insane" - comply and enjoy the dollar menu.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:21 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence. - Cicero, 60 B.C.

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. — Benjamin Franklin

How many times do we have to go down this road??

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:43 | Link to Comment Tic tock
Tic tock's picture

congress isn't exactly cut out to take responsibility for anything

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:44 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Also,

"Republicans have vowed to slash $60 billion from the budget as soon as March, but many of those cuts are not likely to be popular with the public."

LOL. $60 billion out of ~$3.8 trillion. Man that's drastic! They mean business!

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:52 | Link to Comment Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

That's a whopping 1.6%! Damn, hold on to your hat for some serious austerity!

</scsm>

Fucking politicos

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:53 | Link to Comment Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

Gotta lub congress. They valiantly vow to 'cut' $100 billion....errr, not so much, make it $60 billion from the deficit. Take the '-illions' out of all this insanity and the picture is more understandable to J6P.

Congress is diligently working towards paying off a national annual debt of $1,400+.....by promising to reduce that debt by $60 bucks.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch....they're simultaneously borrowing another $150 each month to help pay for all the neat stuff they spend money on. Naturally, this is all being done with a bank account balance of $0.

Clearly, we're saved by such herculean efforts and rigid fiscal responsibility. Why the heck is everyone worried? Now, where did I leave that gigantor bag of cheetos and the remote.....

 

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:44 | Link to Comment Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

They see the dollar going down the tubes, but they won't buy gold...yet.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:45 | Link to Comment Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

First, ( during the election season of course ), Boehner promised $100 billion in largely symbolic cuts in spending. So much for symbolism, as that figure has now been whittled down to $60 billion, and will likely drop further.

Boehner is a weeping empty suit. How any could have set the bar so high for the House GOP contingent with this caterwauler leading the charge, is mystifying.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:59 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

+1 for using caterwaul in a sentence.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:02 | Link to Comment Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Not like they need to, they just talk budget cuts to placate the self flagellating teatards.  The ONLY THING THEY CARED ABOUT was extending the tax cuts for the rich.  Even this health care reform repeal stuff is a FUCKEN THEATER.  They are AOK with this POS lets give for profit insurance customers 30 billion new customers "reform".  They are only talking about repealing it so THE MORNOIC LIBERALS will support the damn thing that much more.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:12 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

self flagellating teatards

 

Employing -tard as a suffix is a symptom of intellectual laxity.

Don't confuse the rising displeasure of individual taxpayers with the political hacks who will ride the coattails of any popular movement. Stop buying into the media's depiction of a Tea Party led by Palinites.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:25 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Calling for posters to use their brainz and intellect on this site will NOT be tolerated!  Don't you have an iPad app for that?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:46 | Link to Comment Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

And an Almighty Congress subject to the cries of Timmah will concede, the ceiling shall be raised...

Unofficial all-time Congressional chant:

'The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire, we don't need no water, let the motherfucker burn!'

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:57 | Link to Comment Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

Those lyrics look familiar -- Old Skool hip-hop. Got it: Rock Master Scott & the Dynamic Three, featuring DJ Easy Tee and Benz Inflation Gangstas.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:38 | Link to Comment Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

Funktron has it covered. Lay out some cardboard. Time for some breakin.'

+1

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:46 | Link to Comment luster
luster's picture

I would venture a guess 71% of Americans do not know what a debt ceiling is.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:53 | Link to Comment Liars Poker
Liars Poker's picture

95% of Americans do not read anything remotely educational. They'd rather smoke and drink themselves to a numb sleep every day.

 

www.nacocapital.com

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:08 | Link to Comment Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

Works for me!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:33 | Link to Comment johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

What about those of us that do both? After reading about all the Economical chaos going on I need a fifth of vodka and bong rips!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:26 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Copy that!  Don't Bogart that joint my friend...

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:07 | Link to Comment Oquities
Oquities's picture

succinct summation of another useless poll.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:46 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Debt ceiling', they may as well not even talk about it when its just busted thru whenever they feel like it, or are threatened by the FED. Just raise the rice paper debt ceiling to $500 quadrillion today and forget the theater....unless the whole point of it is to rub shit in the americans peoples face once in a while.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:47 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I'm not paying for it.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:05 | Link to Comment Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

You're right, your children's children will.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:16 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

It's the Moody Blues budget.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:23 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Define "pay".

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:47 | Link to Comment debauch
debauch's picture

There is literally no chance that the debt ceiling not be raised, because failing to raise it would be catastrophically stupid (even considering that we are talking about Congress).  Leaving aside the question of whether the debt is sustainable (it obviously is, but thats another story) a voluntary default is bad for everyone.

That 71% of Americans do not want it raised speaks to the epic failure of the American education system.

Serious people can disagree about the deficit, the debt, the stimulus or whatever.  But this debate about the debt ceiling is retardation on an epic scale.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:48 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

I'll have what you're smoking.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:44 | Link to Comment Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

I agree 100%, ZERO chance it does not get raised.  Here's how I see it happening.... it'll go down to the wire and be raised, lets say, 2 trillion dollars to 16 trillion BUT!  WE WILL CUT SPENDING AND STOP THIS MADNESS THIS TIME, AND WE'RE SERIOUS AS SHIT THIS TIME, AND WE MEAN IT....

 

Kind of like when you go out and get wicked trashed, and wake up hung over as hell, and say "i'm never drinking that much again, and this time, I MEAN IT...."  then look at ya next weekend doing it all over again :)

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:30 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"Look honey, if you just lend me $1Trillion more, I 'promise' NOT to spend it all at the bar this time (I'll make a fast pit-stop at the liquor store instead!)"

The only question in my mind is how all these fresh(wo)man Congress critters are gonna look themselves in the mirror afterwards.

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:22 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Serious people can disagree about the deficit, the debt, the stimulus or whatever. But this debate about the debt ceiling is retardation on an epic scale.

 

If Massa loses de fawm, what's we gwyn to do?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:48 | Link to Comment nscholten
nscholten's picture

Securities and Exchange Commisssion doesn't do anything anyway.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:49 | Link to Comment dan10400
dan10400's picture

Only 18% approve?   Isn't there something on the extent of > 20% on the dole of some form right now?   Seems like a lot of people are looking for some tough love.... 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:49 | Link to Comment Gigliola Cinquetti
Gigliola Cinquetti's picture

Correct me if I am wrong , but I had the impression that the Bernanke has monetized the deficit up to June . So what exactly will happen , come June , and you are out of borrowing capability ? Massive cuts ?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:52 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Massive cuts for the people, yes. Big pain now or big pain just around the next corner...all it comes down to.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:03 | Link to Comment Gigliola Cinquetti
Gigliola Cinquetti's picture

You do realize we are talking some 700 billion US$ , do you ? The biggest budget items are defense and social security . Poverty and unemployment are already  at or near historical highs . How this will work out without civil unrest is a big question in my simple mind . Furthermore , these cuts will lower consumer demand , a further obstacle to economic recovery . Or am I just hallucinating ?

 

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:32 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Just ignore those purple monkey dishwashers...

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:55 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

He will begin QE3 and monetize more debt. He has no choice. And the markets will keep going higher.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:06 | Link to Comment Gigliola Cinquetti
Gigliola Cinquetti's picture

Exactly my take on this . In the short term you can intoduce some cuts , but not to the tune of some 700 billion US$ . The major part will have to be monetized .

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:50 | Link to Comment Savonarola
Savonarola's picture

Federal stuff is important, but you can always invest/hedge/tax deduct your way into a better situation... what burns my shorts in the local taxes on real estate to fund schools and pensions. There is little hope of change there. In fact most states have laws which say you CANNOT decrease the school budget. It can only go up.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:54 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Congress overall receives an 11% approval rating.  Hugo Chavez of Venzuela receives a 55% approval rating and we call him a despot. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:59 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

You are a traitor. The black helicopters are coming for you now. Enjoy your stay in the gulag.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:56 | Link to Comment vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

Debt ceiling?  Shortly that will be non-existent on TV as our planetary cycles now enter the American Idol zone...

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:59 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Today the Chinese asked the US for assurances on their dollar assets. 

That's a key piece of the puzzle here. Translated, they want the debt ceiling raised to ensure they'll get repaid, and to ensure that the US's addiction to CHinese imports continues forever.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:00 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Ras hates it when he's proven correct.
Rasputin
- Wed, Jan 12, 2011 - 07:12 AM

Ras has been reading articles and
blog posts that report BOTH China and Japan are diving head-first into
EU bonds/debt, in order to keep the Eurozone propped up. (Which, for
those not paying attention, the EU represents as big, or bigger, a
customer to the Mercantilist Japanese and Chinese as does the U.S.).

So, we see yet another example of "Wash, Rinse, Repeat", and
fiatsco-flinging in all directions to keep the global Ponzi scheme
afloat.

Then, of course, there are the worldwide stock markets. Virtually
every single major stock index has DOUBLED in the last two years. Bad
news for any stock shorters, who have once again had their heads handed
to them.

Finally, we are now rapidly approaching not the one, not the two,
but the THREE year anniversary of the "Bear Stearns Big Bang" (of March
16th, 2008), which supposedly touched off the "Great Disintegration",
leading to the supposed "imminent" demise of the entire world's
financial system.

Yet, as previously noted, stock markets are at, or near, the same
levels they were at that time, the sheep keep shopping, driving,
vacationing, attending sports events,
and--especially--gambling/speculating on every kind of crazy stock,
bond, option and forex bet in the casino.

(Ras Conclusion): Face it bears, it's "Game Over". Once
again, the infinite power of the Alpha Thugs and Pigmen have overcome
the debt/derivatives destruction with yet more injections of "Infinite
Fiat".

And despite the constant screechings of various Websites (that had
the unfortunate timing of spinning up their doom-and-gloom portals at
the EXACT BOTTOM of the stock market cycle) of:

"This is it!!!" and

"This
can't go on!!!" and

"Any minute now, we swear, this whole thing is
gonna blow sky high!!!",

the fact of the matter is that:

- The same Thugs
and Pigmen are in charge,

- The same fiat currency/fractional reserve
lending/central banking/securitization/derivatives scheme is firmly in
place, and

- The same sheeple continue to spend wildly.


While gold and silver are somewhat elevated in terms of
fiatsco price, they are nowhere NEAR the "To da mooooon!!!" prices
promised by gold-and-silver shilling Websites and pundits.

However, Ras has long ago learned that none of
these "debt and deficit" facts matter to the Walter Mittys who cling to their outmoded
paradigms of "All gold, all silver, all the time, not matter what", even
though the bunker dwellers would have been far, far better off buying
AAPL, AMZN or NFLX.

Oh, and the
U.S. fiatsco is actually HIGHER than it was three years ago when Bear
Stearns went down in flames and the Fed and Uncle Thug started flinging
TRILLIONS of fiatscos.

Go figure.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:12 | Link to Comment cxl9
cxl9's picture

and the U.S. fiatsco is actually HIGHER than it was three years ago

Gauged how?


Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:52 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

I think he means higher, as in out of reach to the unemployed and the food rioters.

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:38 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Every once in awhile, I too find myself catching the unrealistic optimism spewing from the boob tube -- then I remember that the robots are still working in the stock market(s), no cuts to Govt spending of any significance have been made,  Real Estate with trashed title(s) still have NOT reached realistic pricing -- need I go on?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:05 | Link to Comment Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

Talk about debt ceiling reminds of my solemn vow to go on a diet and get my weight down. All talk, no action. It seems my intentions are greatest right after I have stuffed myself with pizza or a milkshake, but when hunger pangs return, all that diet resolve goes right out the window.

I don't know how I am going to be able to stand it having to grow my own food and live on range free chickens and rabbits. (Lenny, how did you say you were going to live off the fat of the land?)

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:30 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Start, now, by not eating out, ever, then do not drink any soda, ever.

Take a 30 minute walk every day at lunch.

In 30 days you will be a much happier, healthier, and wealthier person; or you can do nothing, and spend the only life you have as just another unhappy fat person.  It is your choice.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:05 | Link to Comment Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

We dont need a new debt ceiling.  We can just paint the old one. 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=paint%20the%20ceiling

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:07 | Link to Comment toros
toros's picture

Hail to the KING!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:28 | Link to Comment Rider
Rider's picture

So the congress is against who they suppose to represent.

The laws of physics would suggest, the ones being represented will be against congress soon.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:10 | Link to Comment cclaeys
cclaeys's picture

wish my debt ceiling would raise, just got another notice of a credit card closed because I dont use it, so much for doing things the "right" way, thanks alot dave ramsey...wtf do you do now, go get a sig loan for 25k when there is an emergency? Actually, the 2.8% vs 2.7% raise should help float any emergencies, especially considering the net negative interest paid on deposits. ftw!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:14 | Link to Comment Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

I believe Dave would tell you to start building up SAVINGS for emergencies.  Just sayin'.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:10 | Link to Comment onlymyopinion
onlymyopinion's picture

Do those 70% realize what this could do to the economic recovery we've seen so far? Or to the markets and their 401K's?  Probably not.  I think if they did, they might have to reconsider their decision.  We cannot afford to do anything foolish that would threaten the economic recovery. We voted those folks in, we just need to have confidence they're going to do the right thing for the American people.  Along with raising the ceiling cuts should be made in several areas of the budget. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:41 | Link to Comment The Count
The Count's picture

What you are saying is that we have to continue with the exact same BS that got us to the brink of collapse. Its like an alcoholic saying if I don't have this drink right now I wont make it through the job interview.

 

Better let the chips fall where they may and we start over.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:54 | Link to Comment onlymyopinion
onlymyopinion's picture

Can you imagine what would happen to the consumer if they saw their 401K drop 20-30%? We'd see consumer (you know, 70% of GDP) spending drop in a heartbeat.  How soon we forget what happened in 2008-09.  Raising the debt ceiling and making budget cuts IMO is the only right thing to do.  I'm confident Congress will make that right decision.  BWDIK, being a Joe6P.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:09 | Link to Comment The Count
The Count's picture

I think you have not been around long enough to realize that congress is now a bunch of corrupt, stupid, dysfunctional and incapable morons. Don't take my word for it, I saw an interview with a couple new senators that could not believe what is going on in Washington. We are screwed, plain and simple.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:26 | Link to Comment onlymyopinion
onlymyopinion's picture

Looks like the market seems to think raising it is the right decision.  The wealth effect just keeps getting stronger and better everyday.  The consumer is better off raising it along with their 401Ks.  When the Dow is over 13k later this year, many of the 71% will realize they were wrong. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:28 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

You're hilarious but pretending to be bullish just to amuse yourself at ZH is going to become tiresome real fast -- for everybody.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:52 | Link to Comment onlymyopinion
onlymyopinion's picture

This place (ZH) is great however I'm not sure why some here like to slam someone who's bullish?  For heavens sake we've been in a bull market for almost 2 years!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:59 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Your supposed bullishness is just a tad formulaic and seems to lack sincerity.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 15:14 | Link to Comment onlymyopinion
onlymyopinion's picture

I'm not here trying to prove anything. Actually I consider myself more lucky than smart by getting back into the market in the spring of 09'.  I was almost ready to dump and walk away that july when the market had a serious correction but I still was up and decided to stick it out "for just another week" and happened to get lucky in that it started going back up.  Believe me, the last thing I wanted was to experience 2000 all over again when I was absolutely crushed.  I promised myself never to let that happen again and in July 2009 those thoughts crossed my mind.  At the time I was just holding everything in SSO and it had gone up enough like I said I still had some profits during the July pullback. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 22:17 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

Your points about the market being bullish for two years or something and the above chronology in which you used the word 'I' something like 9 times leads one to believe that your opinions on how "Well" things look out there,  is highly dependant on how "you" personally have faired over the last while.

Jamie, and Lloyd would probably have the same bullish outlook.

It matters little to the people, friends, and family that I and many others see each day struggling.

Thu, 01/13/2011 - 00:19 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

+

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:11 | Link to Comment proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

 

I oppose increasing the debt ceiling, yet if I were in Congress I would have to vote in favor of it this time in order to buy time for more stringent remedial action like imposing drastic spending cuts. The previous Congress already pulled the lanyard on this particular artillery round, and it is really best not to cover the muzzle in an attempt to stop the round from leaving the barrel.

 

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:15 | Link to Comment Catullus
Catullus's picture

Reagan said the same thing in 1982 raising the ceiling to $1 trillion.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:12 | Link to Comment Catullus
Catullus's picture

Fuck yeah, democracy! 200 years from now a collection of bullshitters will prognosticate why the US empire failed. These polls will be forgotten. But it'll be very basic: people just stopped playing ball. A majority thought Iraq was a bad idea, it was near unanimous outside the parasitic class that the bank bailouts were a terrible idea, most people thought the fed was to blame, their standard of living was decreasing, and the country was crashing into the shitter. Yet our decreasingly read and bankrupt news organizations demanded to be bailed out while mocking most of the country by calling anyone who believed the above names like "nut jobs", "doomers", "right Wing extremists", "hippies". Also, the most trusted name in news was a comedian with 4 TiVos and Photoshop, who held a rally in Washington dc to say to the media establishment that they're a joke and people were figuring it out.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:23 | Link to Comment SantaFeDave
SantaFeDave's picture

This survey simply confirms that 71% of people are knuckleheads.  There are certainly many difficult structural "take your cod liver oil" changes required to our nation's (well, the industrialized world really) federal, state and local government income statements and balance sheets.

But these changes will have to be phased in over 3 to 5 years at best.  Even in this way, the pain will be real and long lasting as we collectively shake the methadone of government supports.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:42 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 SantaFe Dave

"knuckleheads" for wanting to end government profligacy?

Maybe you also think Obama is "withdrawing" from the endless wars and occupations. You don't seem to realize how bad it has become, how worthless are the promises of our current politicians.

 Without  a demand for immediate action, there will be no "phase-in".

Let them use current tax collections for troop withdrawal, not more escalation as they plan. Stop the public tribute now and let the banksters speculate without it.

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:33 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:34 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

This survey simply confirms that 71% of people are knuckleheads

 

Well then thank your lucky stars that the oligarchy remains firmly entrenched.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:29 | Link to Comment barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

this is why people on this site shouldn't revert to the juvenile view of or desire for some kind of undemocratic, rule by tyranny as a positive thing.

 

what we have today is not a democracy. democracy is not the problem. never was. so shake off that instinct that...oh shit, what if all the poor people can vote they will take away my riches.....no...it's the rich people who will take away your riches . ha ha ha. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:41 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Democracy is the problem. As character has deteriorated in America it has become easier to fool the little guy into believing that he can get ahead by voting for virtuous leaders who will justly redistribute the wealth. But of course anyone who has the power to redistribute wealth is going to keep it for himself and his friends rather than shower it on the poor. But the little guy falls for the same scam time and again. Democracy is the framework that allows this ongoing theft to take place. Government itself is the foundation upon which this criminal framework is constructed.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:47 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

D@mn it!  Didn't I warn you about being reasonable?  I'm droppin' a dime on you!  Hello, Thought Police...

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:32 | Link to Comment barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

i get so tired of hearing that dumb argument. what is democracy...nothing but how two wolves and a sheep decide what is for dinner. its bullshit. 

we dont have democracy today. today we have one very small wolf and lots of dumb sheep . the wolf is just gnawing on the sheep and eating them alive. and the sheep just don't want to face the fact. they would rather imagine that they are overwhelmed by hordes of wolves all over the place....nope. it's just a tiny wolf. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:58 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

just a tiny wolf that the sheep voted for. who knew, sheep are cannibals.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:36 | Link to Comment steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

Congress should raise the debt ceiling another $20 trillion or so and be done with it.

The whole mess is pointless political theater with lots of risks attached.

$20 whole trillion ought to buy Congess six more months or so :)

DOD suggests +$70b in defense cuts. Day 2: China flies a 'Stealth Fighter' that looks like it's made out of recycled refrigerator parts. Stealth my ass with afterburners and canards. Gimme a break.

The DOD will now need an additional $70b to counter the Chinese threat.

Meanwhile +$90 crude is corroding the US economy from the bottom and nobody pays attention.

 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:38 | Link to Comment The Count
The Count's picture

We are no better than a crack addict. Our crack is debt. And the dealers aren't about to let us off the hook.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:52 | Link to Comment colonial
colonial's picture

I don't understand why there is any surprise in this post. 

Of course the American people fear more debt.  The average American has so much consumer debt they're literally choking on it...mortgage debt, car debt, credit card debt, student loan debt, and these are just the basics.  This fear is real and fed by employment concerns and the potential for further drops in home values.   

However, unwinding the debt bubble without triggering a massive economic collapse, (something truly on the level of the so-called great depression,) scares the living @#$% out of both Wall Street AND Washington. 

But the reason why the debt limit will be raised goes further than that.  Regardless of what people think, China is not yet ready to emerge as the world's leader, so there is no one out there willing to put their nation, their currency, their government in the position currently occupied by The United States of America. 

Put simply, the rest of the world needs the US to extend our borrowing limits.  The rest of the world needs the US to put the creaky, shaky, flawed global economic growth engine back together.  You can call it Humpty-Dumpty or any other alliteration that suits, but as I've commented before.  What if everyone needs to perpetuate the current insanity?  What then? 

My personal, non economic, simplistic view is that the global system stumbles along, (like Japan before us,) and we endure a painful de-leveraging process until another economic model emerges. 

Policy makers, be they central bankers or sovereigns, will cover for each other because its all they know how to do.  The sad reality is that no one in Washington or Wall Street wants to fix this because they have all profited handsomely from this massive debt bubble. 

As I was listening to the Constitution read aloud in Congress, I was struck by the fact that the founding fathers recognized the need for orderely and uniform bankruptcies in the very same section (section 8) where the power to tax and coin money was referenced.  Yet we have spent years crafting ways for lenders to gain an advantage over borrowers.  (Isn't it amazing that its impossible to bankrupt out of a student loan?) 

Maybe the time has come to examine what the framers of the Constitution really felt about allowing Americans to begin anew, free of their debts.  Wall Street and the banksters won't mind, right? 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 12:32 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

there will be a few unknowns but then at the end, it will all go back to local money since oil will be way too high for global/mass economies to function.  Start making friends and figure out what you can do/bring to the campfire. We'll all make friends with the earth again, locally.

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