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Is A 90 Day "Mortgage Meltdown" Foreclosure Moratorium Imminent As The RoboSigning Scandal Goes Mainstream?

Tyler Durden's picture


The Massive Mortgage Mess as we affectionately call it seems to be getting new names with each passing day - the latest one is, quite appropriately, RoboSigning Scandal (funny how after the stock market, "robotic" technology will soon becoming equated with the biggest mortgage scam in history). During today's Kudlow segment, CNBC's Diana Ollick who is by and far the company's best (and only) investigative reporter, confirms various so far unfounded rumors, that the government is planning to institute a 90 day foreclosure moratorium as it deals with the realization of just how big and pervasive the mortgage problem is, and even worse, will soon be. It is so bad that even a typically ebullient Larry Kudlow is forced to note that this is the "housing equivalent of the credit financial meltdown" and that "this is going to go on for ever." The biggest issue that is now developing, as we noted last week, is the fact that title insurers (firms such as Fidelity National, First American, Stewart Info and Old Republic) are refusing to insure mortgages in foreclosure or otherwise, uncertain as to who actually owns the title. And for all those who believe this will merely keep prices artificially high, we have very bad news - the problem with the title insurers walking away on fears of lawsuits is that no lender will be willing to write a mortgage without title insurance, meaning that suddenly the up-front component of home purchases will either necessarily have to surge, or home prices will have to plunge by a like amount, as there is simply not enough equity (read money) to cover the resulting debt deficiency. Alas, this mess is just starting, and as people realize how bad it is, it very well may lead to a total collapse in the housing market.

For all those hoping on a quick resolution so that Americans can go back to watching Dancing with the Stars, you may wish to reconsider. Quote Kudlow: "We're not talking just a few weeks, or a few months. This sounds like a long, drawn-out, bureaucratic, robotic process with lawyers, and oh my gosh." Another implication: a veritable bonanza for both lawyers and defaulters, the former of whom will end up making billions in legal fees (collected from the same banks which are still sucking off the ridiculously low TLGP-funded, and thus taxpayer sponsored fees), while the latter will be able to live mortgage free for years, while continuing to buy useless trinkets instead of paying what is contractually their duty.

Another important topic discussed is the fact that due to decades of faulty securitizations, suddenly no bank knows who owns what. Courtesy of several trillion in now title-undefined mortgages, which in turn form the basis for thousands of CDOs, which in turn are split up into millions of tranches, and includes the complicity of Fannie, Freddie and private label, it is the banks and their clients that have shot themselves in the foot: as other have noted, very soon, the entire MBS process can and very may grind to a halt (if that happens, goodbye Pimco).

As mentioned earlier, Ollick confirms that according to rumors, the government is going to impose "some kind of 90 day foreclosure moratorium on the banks which would melt down the housing market." In fact Congressman Merkley already indicated he is for a foreclosure moratorium.

At the end of the day: the one true loser, is the law-abiding, conscientious, tax and mortgage paying middle class American, who is now preparing for TARP 2 as the banks will all almost definitely need to run to the bailout through because of this catastrophe.

Must watch 10 minute explanation for anyone who is still confused by any aspect in this massive story.



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Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:02 | 624784 Nolsgrad
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Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:11 | 624799 Everyman
Everyman's picture


must...visualize..... leg......moving..

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:13 | 624805 Nolsgrad
Nolsgrad's picture

big doodoo coming.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:39 | 624855 Kali
Kali's picture

Big doodoo hitting the fan.  The pervasive fraud is about to invade the sensibilities of J6P.  The sharks are starting to attack each other, the feeding frenzy is beginning. 

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:22 | 624927 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

the feeding frenzy is beginning.

Do you know what's really fun, and frustrating at the same time?  Having stayed current by staying on ZH frequently, and (a little...) elsewhere, watching the masses finally freaking catch a clue.  I already have the positions I want, and I have already adjusted to them emotionally, and I know what my exit strategies are, and I know the signs I'm looking for, and I have enough discipline to hold what I have.  I know what to expect, I know how I will react emotionally to events, and I am prepared for it.  I've been studying this situation so long and so closely that it's damned humerous watching morons argue about it, knowing they don't fully understand, and even more than that, knowing their knowledge hasn't "matured" to the point they can confidently act on it yet and steel themselves for the turmoil ahead. 

In other words: got popcorn?

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:29 | 624946 Kali
Kali's picture

Popcorn and butter!  It is thrilling in a way to see the events unfold.  Yes, thanks to ZH and others, I am mentally and physically prepared the best I am able.  But, while fun to see the show, scary at the same time.  I am just glad I am older, have had a hell of a life.  I really feel sorry for young people today.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:37 | 624961 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:22 | 625100 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Lawyers will be battling gold dealers for commercial spots on cable TV.  "Foreclosed on in the past ten years, call 1-888-GET-EVEN".  Let the games begin!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:42 | 625251 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

I have a 150 IQ, I went to harvard, and the following are my thoughts on housing in America.  To my mind, most of the issue of the housing market rests upon the issue of crime.  Clearly when the dollar declines dramatically, or collapses, dollars will be dumped as part and parcel of that.  But when the dollars are dumped, where will they go?  They have to come back to America and buy something.  When Swedish krona are dumped, they eventually end up purchasing something made in Sweden by the Swedes, or otherwise native to Sweden.  Similarly for the dollar; during terminal decline currencies go home to roost (in some form or another).  Well what does America have, that is of value? 

Well historically speaking, a good answer might be people.  Though I dont entirely rule it out, it seems unlikely at this stage of history that global and also domestic reserves of dollars will be used to purchase Americans themselves.  There are two arguments in support however. 

The first is the notion that Americans as a whole have not definitively shown that they can en masse adjust to life working as (essentially) skilled peons in non-service sector jobs (for example).  This is an oft-overlooked fact-- i.e. that Americans at this stage in history are by nature and by constitution ( i mean their body/mind constitution) unemployable in a modern economy, except as slaves.  By slaves I mean effective chattel, property used to do largely manual labor-- as opposed to, for example, skilled factory labor.  I think they would see the former as invigorating, while the latter their minds and bodies would find intolerably boring.  And after all, as scientists would tell us, and in spite of the wear and tear, invigorating manual labor may very well be more healthy than sitting 12 hours a day at a sewing machine, as is the wont of 10s of millions in asia.  Of course many commentators will say that America has to restructure its economy, i.e. retool, and build up its manufacturing base again to the degree it can.  On paper this sounds pretty cool-- my only question would be, “Who would the factory laborers be?”  Surely not the Americans in my state.  The trend in America for 70 years has been towards greater profligacy in mind and body.  The mind can in theory adjust, and adapt where it needs to.  The body is another story; there a much deeper reversal is needed, obviously.  Seamstresses and coal miners we are no longer (for better or worse). (Incidentally, and in a similar vein, when some suggest the downturn here will be so dramatic that it will rival the Great Depression, and that there will be bread lines, I have to sharply dissent.  While I readily admit the former, re. the latter, I would sooner see a somewhat orderly line or gathering descend into a tumult within 15 minutes or so, followed eventually by screeching tires and flying bullets as a couple of SUVs drive up, a few men jump out and shoot or threaten the bakers, as it were, and take off with the whole supply all within 30 seconds.   The point being --  aint no muddafuckin Americans I know gonna be standin in no damn BREAD LINE!!  SHIITT! )  

The second argument in support of global reserves driving up the market for warm bodies in America relates to accounting efficiency, and maybe karma.  A large percentage of Americans (and Europeans) already have body markings which are not familial/tribal in origin.   Throughout history, which class of people have overwhelming bore bodily marks/brandings of non-familial origin?—slaves, of course.  In addition, many Americans already bear various Asian, and in particular Chinese, characters on various parts of their bodies, and so this might provide for greater market efficiencies.

Anyway, my point about housing was going to be—the world is overloaded with USD of decreasing value, and the US is overloaded with millions of badass luxury houses.  The irony is as clear as the solution is elegant and obvious.  But it remains a sort of tantalizingly resolution of the dilemma, that will presumably not come to pass, because in between then and now would likely lie abysmal levels of crime, and of course a geopolitical abyss.  The crime stats have , I know, not shown it yet… as goes the currency, so goes the crime level.  We are still in that gently Weimarian Deflationary trend in crime—and then, as the historians’ say-- the Witches’ Sabbath, where Americans find themselves stooping to pick up ANY work….  a Fellationary-- er-- Inflationary depression



………………    ………..        ……………….AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 03:45 | 625264 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Very perceptive piece (especially coming from a self-important gloater!).

It ain't gonna be pretty when all the lard-asses are herded to the cotton plantation (or debtors' prison -- choose wisely!).

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 04:31 | 625286 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

haha thanks :)  yeah its gonna be insane

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 12:10 | 626131 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

There will be a "tramp stamp" section in the FEMA camps where the Lords and Masters will visit at their leisure.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 17:33 | 627383 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

hmmm... maybe "state" instead of "section"...

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 18:07 | 627472 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

If you went to Harvard, did you miss the semester-long course on capitalization of your alma mater?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 03:42 | 625269 Popo
Popo's picture

"I have a 150 IQ, I went to harvard, and the following are my thoughts on housing in America."


That's where I stopped reading.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 04:12 | 625277 RabidLemming
RabidLemming's picture


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 04:28 | 625283 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

Right.  It's a reflexively-designed function whereby 'certain' readers self opt-out.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:07 | 625359 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

My IQ is around a buck seven and I went to high school.  Yet somehow I am still perceptive enough to see that you are a douchebag.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:18 | 625750 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Inherently, I fail to see the ability of the dollar to come home to roost and purchase american goods and services when WE REJECT THE DOLLAR TOO.  You want to know what you can buy with dollars?  Ask China...  treasuries, treasuries, and more treasuries...  and with every treasury, we'll throw in an mbs or two.  These will ultimately be claims to see a disgruntled american flip you the bird...  no more.

PS, 107 IQ?  C'mon man...  aside from IQ not measuring dick.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:52 | 625856 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

Dollar like a hot wife turned oinker here... The world rejects the dollar more.  We reject the dollar too, but our laws currently require and enforce its acceptance as legal tender for 'all debts public and private.'  So grab the wife/kids, keys to your house and maybe a used car and washing machine/dryer or two and get ready for the...

tidal wave, bitchez.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:00 | 626313 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

i actually like you and didn 't junk you. you had me @ 150 IQ. my mom told me a had a high IQ but i am sure she was lying, just to boost my self confidence.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 16:13 | 627108 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

thanks kathy... yeah she probably was, but whatever, youre really positive and seem like youd be totally cool to hang out with ;)

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 16:17 | 627139 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

voyeurism is the sexual interest in or practice of spying on people engaged in intimate behaviors, such as undressing, sexual activity, or other activity usually considered to be of a private nature.

are you familiar with this term? how exactly does one hang out?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 18:07 | 627475 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

<salutes the Colonel>


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:10 | 625364 reading
reading's picture

I am going to opt-in here just to junk you -- your comments may be interesting however egotistical delivery is of no value.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:05 | 625410 Clark_Griswold ...
Clark_Griswold Hedge Mnger's picture

I'm a European living in the US; have so for over 30 years.

Having experienced life on both sides of the pond, lived in both cultures and have a good understanding of the social/backbone mindset of both worlds I can honestly say with full heart, Mr. Harvard IQ

    Never, Ever, EVER Underestimate Americans.

   True they sometimes get lulled to sleep; but beware when they wake up.



Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:25 | 626412 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

I can kinda in EU now for the forseeable future, and slowly but surely im realizing how much (North) America is a big 'win' compared to anywhere in Europe.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:30 | 625453 Bob
Bob's picture

The Lord and Master character has been starting his posts with these words for a while now and no community efforts, whether nice or nasty, have swayed him from doing so.  While he makes some interesting points, including above, at this point--in this vitally important thread, from near its beginning--it is clear that he is a MAJOR distraction who derails discussion of the actual matters at hand. 

As a guy who claims to be a genius, he would seem to be doing so deliberately (hell, a sub-normal IQ guy who is a HS dropout would know better.)  This is an especially malignant troll. 

I would suggest that we would be better off ignoring him. 

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:35 | 625548 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Read some of his previous posts, Bob. As a matter of fact, I've just been looking at a few to see where he is coming from ... he is no troll. In fact, he is one of the sharper tacks in the carpet here ... and this carpet has some pretty sharp tacks in it!

Don't let your fellow slaves turn you into a meek and mild-mannered reporter. There is nothing wrong with pride or arrogance ... ask my friends (both of them). :)

The meek will not inherit the earth -- they will only inherit the leftovers.

However, on the interpersonal skills scale, you are way ahead of him.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:00 | 625692 Bob
Bob's picture

I and others have tried to reason with him.  There's no reason to start his posts in a manner that derails debate, whether intentionally or not.  Sorry, but look what actually happens. 

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:23 | 625749 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Quite frankly, Bob, I take everyone on the merits of their arguments and reasoning -- rather than on how clever their avatar/handle is, or how well they spell, or how gracious they are. I guess I have lived in too many countries -- and speak too many languages [badly] -- to care much about grammatical errors or social differences. Save all that for cocktail parties ... this is Fight Club!

He is no more grating (to me) than "Gold, bitchez", "It's Bush's fault", "The Republicans will save us", Geopol's incoherent ramblings, or half of the dim-witted and "levelling" responses to this particular post. Indeed, his self-aggrandizing opening means that he has to put up better arguments than normal just to avoid being shot down in flames ... and he usually does.

I'm sure he can defend himself ... in his own inimitable style. I'm just trying to make a few points about how I feel about socialist "levelling" and ad hominem responses to well-reasoned posts, no matter how they are phrased.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:27 | 626422 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

self opt-out

150 IQ

LMAO.  Sure.


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:02 | 625297 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

I went to Cambridge. I had a lovely day.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:29 | 625459 Shakey
Shakey's picture

Good choice!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:58 | 625512 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

The fact that anyone went to Harvard and has a 150 IQ actually is a negative these days.  Too many of these idiots have totally fucked up our country.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:05 | 625543 snowball777
snowball777's picture

That's where I stopped reading.

I stopped at "Lord".


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 11:00 | 625901 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

I stopped at Master

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:28 | 626423 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 11:26 | 625998 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

He starts every post with that.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 04:31 | 625287 Papa Boule
Papa Boule's picture

Seems like if your IQ is that high and you're so well schooled you'd know us lower-IQ, lesser-schooled dumbasses ain't never gonna read that much text.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:06 | 625356 geoffb
geoffb's picture

News flash: There are bread lines forming in a Wal-mart near you. You need to spend a lot more time reading the articles here before you stick your foot in your mouth. Whoops too late.



Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:50 | 625392 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Here's how these dudes rank:

147 Franklin D. Roosevelt (D) 132 Harry Truman (D) 122 Dwight D. Eisenhower (R) 174 John F. Kennedy (D) 126 Lyndon B. Johnson (D) 155 Richard M. Nixon (R) 121 Gerald Ford (R) 175 James E. Carter (D) 105 Ronald Reagan (R) 099 George HW Bush (R) 182 William J. Clinton (D) 091 George W. Bush (R)

and what else?

President George W. Bush is the very first President to hold a Masters Degree in Business Administration. Even better (or worse, depending on your perspective), his MBA is from Harvard Business School.

Wonder if you to can compare notes.....

Don't lead with your credentials.. let your content speak to that... just sayin.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:23 | 626399 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

A common failing of truly smart people is to think that since they passed a test showing how smart they are, that they are smart about EVERYTHING.  This is exactly why intellectuals are not smart enough to get elected.

Successful gifted and talented individuals will generally let people know that while they do know a great deal, they do not know everything.  Having once suffered from the "I'm the smarted person in the room complex" myself (when I was a teenager), I have moved on to trying to actually understand and solve issues. 

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 17:24 | 627340 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

Wait wait wait, time out, Im taking notes here...  you say "common failing... truly smart people" and then "not smart enough" and then-- wait wait im lost.... what is smart?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:56 | 625507 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

Toot toot.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:35 | 625625 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Interesting way to  begin a post on ZH--"I'm smart, so I'm right."


The thing is, a lot of smart people, including Ben Bernanke, are crashing and burning this time.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 12:04 | 626116 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I have an unmeasured IQ and have only seen pictures of Harvard, or any other college for that matter.  So, my meager intellect is obviously inadequate to debate, or even comment on, your exposition of the problem or its solution.  I do, however, know how to curb the excess use of parentheses by constructing sentences with adequate and proper clause construction, and punctuation.  My guess would be that your junking would have been somewhat less brutal had you omitted the first sentence.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:09 | 626341 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

i suspect your holding back your personal information for privacy reasons.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:25 | 626414 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 16:59 | 627263 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

Thought itself is an efflorescence of parentheses, so homo sapiens, to the degree that they are allowed to exist and allowed to better themselves in the future, might want to consider greater use of them.  The same would go for the ellipsis (three dots) possibly ... i.e. as part of a more true and more 'human(e)' real-time recording and transmission of thought. 

I hear you on the junking-- and truth be told, I was going to add in to my first line the phrase "you can't eat gold," but saw the market going against me earlier and thought better of it.  I also didnt want G. Lira's comment total to be challenged by something so silly.  That said, I would just note that if a god walked the earth, he might not be able to get out of bed, if he didnt think he would be subject to enormous censure and ridicule the moment he left his door (or passed through his hovel's doorway/aperture).

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:25 | 626407 hedgie
hedgie's picture

This is not an awful post, but anyone who wants people to believe that he has an IQ of 150 ought to try a little harder to master the rules of grammar and punctuation.  Lord and Master's writing is also full of infelicities.  Evidently he slept through that required expository writing class.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:30 | 626427 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

My dog once had a bad case of infelicities, so we went and got him some infelicity spray and that fixed him good. </humor>

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:40 | 626455 RichardP
RichardP's picture

The point of annonimity at ZeroHedge, as argued in the startup days, is so that arguments would be debated on their merits - not on any star-power (or lack of same) attached to the author of the argument.

I think Lord and Master is having some fun with that concept.  If we can focus on the quality of the argument written by annonymous, can we also focus on the quality of the argument when written by someone with claims to greatness?  It is, after all, the quality of the argument that should carry the day - regardless of the perceived stature (or lack of same) of the author.

Why would anyone believe that someone has an I.Q. of 150 and went to Harvard just because they said so?  I didn't pay any attention to the claims, since I have no way to verify them.  I just went to the meat of his argument to see if he made any sense.  I think mostly he didn't, so he must be smart and talking over my head.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 14:11 | 626594 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

how do I play into this anonymous thing on ZH, dickyP? maybe I should start lying and stretching the truth I have fun telling any one that might be interested in real life experiences. I got some, I like how they are brought to consciousness.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 17:18 | 627321 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture


Thu, 10/07/2010 - 13:13 | 632717 Buzz Fuzzel
Buzz Fuzzel's picture

This stands as further evidence that a Harvard/Ivy League education education is not so much an education as it is an indoctrination.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:00 | 625168 merehuman
merehuman's picture

same here

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:36 | 625135 Glass Steagall
Glass Steagall's picture

Single dad, three kids (6, 7, and 9). They will be okay as long as I'm around, but then what? WTF can they look forward to?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 18:11 | 627485 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

A LOT of camping, farming, hunting, and fishing--in order to eat

Won't be so bad...

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 03:53 | 625273 Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

Funny , it started with little snippets of singular judges in Fla. for example , throwing out foreclosure cases , due to no clear title holder . Here and there it happened ( hat tip Market Ticker ). The ball moving slow. Now an explosion !! The bigger the fraud , the larger the damage . And all before elections !! This is super , does America NOW see they have been conned ? And the Feds MBS purchases , Ha ! Worthless paper until proven otherwise . The wise crooks and been crooked ( and of course the taxpayer will pay for that ) Wheres the money coming from to fix all this ? We are tapped , wiped and tired . US soverign default is close . D... greedy fools .     

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:38 | 625385 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

I dont believe for a minute any sheep will think of this negatively. The consensus will be that it is good for home prices (less foreclosures) and the economy (more free spending money instead of paying mortgages), and part of me believes the whole thing was created to do just that.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:45 | 625488 dussasr
dussasr's picture

I disagree - this will be bad for home prices.  This won't prevent foreclosures.  It will merely delay them.  The home owner is still not paying the mortgage and they are so far behind a delay won't help them keep the house.

The empty homes in "foreclosure limbo land" will fall into disrepair, get broken into, filled with mold and generally drag down the whole neighborhood.  Then, when the foreclosure finally goes through the bank owned houses will be coming on the market in bad physical condition and with clouded title.  The net result will be lower prices. 

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:09 | 625559 -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

I'm leaning to this one.  We have one stunning example in our neighborhood.  The stucco is literally falling off the front of this superbly-crafted 5 year-old home.

I shudder to think what the inside looks like after a Florida summer with no a/c.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:21 | 625591 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Sounds like a good place to do a "House of Horrors" this Halloween. Scare the kids and the adults.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:36 | 626444 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

All you'd have to do is put up a sign that says "You could live HERE" -- that'll scare the @#$% out of them.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:49 | 625669 aerojet
aerojet's picture

The sooner home prices correct to whatever their natural level is, the sooner we can beging to truly recover.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:37 | 625815 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture


The very short term is what I meant.

Longer term, you are absolutely correct.


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:01 | 625695 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

It's called a tipping point, and when the government can no longer hide the effects of our debt from the collective consciousness there will be another tipping point.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:31 | 625125 Clinteastwood
Clinteastwood's picture

Hey watch out for that genetically modified popcorn!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 06:59 | 625353 Samsonov
Samsonov's picture

SWR, don't forget to hit the tipjar!

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:44 | 624974 Overpowered By Funk
Overpowered By Funk's picture

It's the shit calling the fan black.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:45 | 625052 purple
purple's picture

think cannibalistic piranas...

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 03:30 | 625265 Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

Well.. so much for QE II . That money will have to go to the failing invisible un-underwriters . I really love this . It is finally blowing apart . Maybe we will yet see prison time from the top to the bottom of those causing and allowing this mortgage mix , remix, re-re-remix again . Yeild chasing fools. Thanx Benny Boy ! May you be the first imprisoned . Execution by lethal Bubba injection would be better .

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:28 | 625033 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

they dont need 90 days just 28 days and the elections will be past. Then everything can fail.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:34 | 624849 digitalhermit
Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:16 | 624815 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

There is no can.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:46 | 624861 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

I'm a Brain Scientist, split neurons in my spare time, fucking eh.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 06:41 | 625344 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture


F*&^ing what eh?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:03 | 625408 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Oh yeah?  Well I have a 214.7 IQ and I attended Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Oxford, and ECPI simultaneously, and I can recite "Atlas Shrugged" backwards in Aramaic from memory while solving differential equations and playing Bach's Ciaccona on a violin which, incidentally, I hand carved from a fragment of the original Ark of the Covenant...

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:11 | 625564 -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

My top schools where I want to apply to are Oxford and the Sorbonne. But my safety's Harvard.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:24 | 625762 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

I'm the top divorce lawyer for professional athletes, and I have a 7 inch cock.


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:12 | 626357 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

did you do lance's? LA

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:22 | 625764 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Is that you, Max?!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 11:54 | 626098 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

:D  +7

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 19:07 | 627633 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

Don't +7 people who are making fun of you, douchebag.

You went to Gopher Crotch Community College, MS--and you know it.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:02 | 624883 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

The 'can' is an IED.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:12 | 624898 Thomas
Thomas's picture

There also is no road to kick it down nor is there a "leg to stand on".

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:39 | 625143 Glass Steagall
Glass Steagall's picture

only probable cans

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:14 | 625187 Moonrajah
Moonrajah's picture

The can is a known unknown. The leg, on the other hand, is the unknown known. And, lastly, the road is the unknown unknown. Combine them all together and... Ahh, fuck, we're all going down!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:39 | 625215 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Are you making fun of the way Krud-low is blabbering away like he just came from his cocaine dealer???

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:56 | 625397 Moonrajah
Moonrajah's picture

Actually, that's more of a wink to Dick 'Gung-ho' Cheney. On second thought, you can leave the 'Gung' part out.

And regarding Kudlow. Well, he did go to his dealer, but the dealer said to him "You see the shit I'm in. And I need it like I need an asshole on my elbow. So piss off, I've got bigger fish to fry". Therefore Kudlow is slowly strating to realise that all is not well in the land of the White Lines (c/o WallSt), and it got him worried.


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:42 | 625482 jimijon
jimijon's picture

Besides the fact that I have a higher IQ than Mr. Harvard along with going to a competing school...

I think you meant Donald Rumsfeld.



Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:42 | 625483 jimijon
jimijon's picture

Besides the fact that I have a higher IQ than Mr. Harvard along with going to a competing school...

I think you meant Donald Rumsfeld.



Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:42 | 625484 jimijon
jimijon's picture

Besides the fact that I have a higher IQ than Mr. Harvard along with going to a competing school...

I think you meant Donald Rumsfeld.



Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:43 | 626459 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Does the competing school teach patience or how to avoid repeating yourself?  ;)

Yeah, that was Rummy.  I think he was trying to verbalize what he got out of "The Black Swan."  He destroyed the message so thoroughly he seemed to have confused himself.

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 00:40 | 628336 Moonrajah
Moonrajah's picture

My bad! That was Donald. sure.

I think I'll go and pour ash on my head now.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:59 | 625399 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Just the other day he was blathering on about how everyone can see the recovery is well established and it's just a bunch of doom and gloomers that think otherwise.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:22 | 625301 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Don't try to kick the can, that's impossible, rather realize that it's you that's being kicked down the road! :>D

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:30 | 624841 Janice
Janice's picture

I was commenting about this yesterday.  It not only effects foreclosures, but homes where the assignment was never recorded, such as mine, but the notes are current.  It we pay our house off, who will file the satisfaction? 

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:50 | 624866 Kali
Kali's picture

Heeeheeehee.  Haaaahaho!  Why should ANYONE pay their mortgage?  I would be asking this of the bank I pay to. 

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:43 | 625252 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

It's only theoretical money anyway....

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 06:53 | 625334 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

What institution would continue making reverse mortgage payments if physical deed transfer can't occur?  Who would continue keeping their deposits invested in such a security or institution?


This is fixin to get pretty amusing. imo

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:01 | 624882 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

time to do some independent research

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:56 | 625228 sushi
sushi's picture

Time to go long retail. It is going to pop as folks take the mortgage money they no longer have to pay (hear that!! It's a moratorium!! Yeeha!!) and invest it in iPADs and TerryTubbies and Telegenic Toothpaste.

Greenshoots breaking out everywhere.

Only in America.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 19:18 | 627656 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

And the banks get bailed out by our grandchildren, that we don't even have to explain ourselves to cuz we'll be dead before they figure it out!

Everybody wins!!!

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:05 | 624889 Skeebo
Skeebo's picture

This is is just a flat out terrifying thought.  It is bad enough with just the properties just in foreclosure (I really think the full size of the problem hasn't set in yet, even here), but just about every mortgage entered into pre-summer 2008 was involved in the securities...


If it plays out that even the people who are current on their homes can't sell b/c of contract ownership questions... This isn't just a black swan, this is a herd of black swans.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:14 | 624902 Thomas
Thomas's picture

In fact, one of the cornerstones of the US miracle was said to be the strong property law. (Just ask Hernando de Soto!) We have had centuries of unbroken ownership...until now.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:34 | 626440 hedgie
hedgie's picture

I couldn't agree more.  As Hernando de Soto argued in the Mystery of Capital, without strong property rights, a central repository of title information, and an orderly process for the transfer of property ownership, you don't have capitalism.  We take strong property rights for granted, but they are a recent historical development and much of the world does not have them.  Without them, as Othello says, "chaos is come again."  In other words, "O, insupportable! O heavy hour! / Methinks it should be now a huge eclipse / Of sun and moon, and that the affrighted globe / Should yawn at alteration."

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:51 | 626485 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Love's not love that alters when it alteration finds.  Or:

Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediments to clear title.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:18 | 624914 Everyman
Everyman's picture

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner!  Bonus points for the "herd of Black Swans" comment!!!



(that would be the estimated number of houses in foreclosure that are affected by this mess.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:13 | 625014 Kali
Kali's picture

isn't that a "flock" of swans.  We sointinly are flocked.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:00 | 625067 AbbeBrel
AbbeBrel's picture

Oddly enough : google "bank of swans".

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:23 | 625102 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Just waiting for someone to use "flock of white elephants" :)

BTW, if nobody knows who owns the title, how does anyone know who they should be paying their mortgage payment to? (I'm a dumb fuck, so go easy with the explanation).

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:59 | 625229 sushi
sushi's picture

Man, if only they could pull this same gig with taxes. Nobody knows who gets my money so I'm not paying!! Do it before November 2nd and really make the electorate happy!!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:42 | 625250 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

Pay your mortgage?  What an antiquated notion.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:40 | 625147 Kali
Kali's picture

FAct is stranger than fiction!


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:16 | 625190 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

hmmm, because the swans are black, like crows, wouldn't it be a 'murder of swans'?


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:49 | 625257 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

A gaggle of Geese flying madly away from our bb guns a shootin', a murder of crows on the bbq, and a bulimic banquet of Swan-son TV dinners... that is what we are going to all be eating.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 03:39 | 625268 foofoojin
foofoojin's picture

unless they are a  rage tag collection of provincial militia. then it's flock of ducks. :)

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:56 | 625314 iota
iota's picture

I get a listing for a pub in Clapham?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:18 | 625584 Skeebo
Skeebo's picture

Actually, I looked it up before I used it.  The correct usage is "herd" or "lamentation", I gotta a "lamentation of black swans" sounds better for this situation.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:45 | 625487 jimijon
jimijon's picture

Yesterday, a buddy of mine hipped me to Google Maps. I know, I know but wait... If you select "more options" and then select Real Estate and then click Foreclosure and then say search 60618 which is in Chicago... you would swear that a major case of measles has broken out in Chicago.

Call the CDC! Chicago is going down.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 19:31 | 627677 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

+5 link

Good way to see if your own neighborhood is going down. 

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:56 | 625316 Zerohedge fan
Tue, 10/05/2010 - 13:18 | 626380 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

your a pea cock

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:39 | 624965 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

It we pay our house off, who will file the satisfaction? 

No answer for that one, hopefully you win by default. Banks will all go boom soon. Very soon. Don't see any chance of another bailout happening.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:52 | 625224 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

"if we pay our house off, who will file the satisfaction? "

If your mortage has been securitized and the mortgage has never been assigned nor an assignment recorded, you need to request a release of lien form from the last recorded assignee of the mortgage. They should provide you with a recordable release form if you prove you have paid off the mortgage.

Your only alternative is to file an action to quiet title (an action in equity, typically tried to a judge without a jury and based on proof of payment), and get a court order declaring that the mortgage has been paid and the lien released. The court order is then recorded in lieu of a release of lien form.

Messy, expensive!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:08 | 625361 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

This situation has been widely known for over a year. (at least on ZH) I have to imagine it was at the forefront of discussions that fateful night in August a year earlier when the reigns of power were passed from one rider to the next. (regardless of the first Tuesday in November)

Though messy and expensive, the fix has evidently been figured out enough to have the carnival barkers at CNBC make "public" comment on it now. imo




Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:06 | 625077 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by Nolsgrad
on Mon, 10/04/2010 - 20:02




If you just realize that there is no can... then... you can kick the can.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:32 | 625123 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

if an entire creditor system collapses in a forest and no one hears it, who gets the 'credit'?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 06:52 | 625352 snowball777
snowball777's picture


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:23 | 625201 Fox Moulder
Fox Moulder's picture

In Soviet America the can kicks you.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:50 | 625258 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

and so does the mexi-can

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:42 | 625389 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 03:43 | 625270 Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

Bye Bye Pimpco = Bill & PTTRX are toilet paper  

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 04:37 | 625288 praps
praps's picture

Don't think duality.  You are the can.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:59 | 625319 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

I remember this game from my youth

Buttony Buttony who's got the Button

They are discovering that the only obstacle is the law

If only we can do away with the law

and the rule of law

Just this once --- then every one will be happy again

We aren't bad people just in need of some law breaking


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:32 | 625376 RECISION
RECISION's picture

Yeah, absolutely.

The way this will play out, is the way this stuff always plays out.

If you don't like the rules, then change the rules.  What is the point of being in power if you can't change the rules to suit yourself? They are your rules afterall, made up to work for you.  Heads I win, tails you lose.

If they aren't working that way anymore, then it is time to change them for some others that will.

Whatever it takes, however outrageous they are...

It's called - Divine right! 


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:38 | 625474 Bob
Bob's picture

FISA provided an impressive example in its retroactive immunity for telecoms that participated in criminal violations of privacy laws:

Le't hope for better in the present case.  And get to work on our elected representatives to make sure it doesn't happen.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:03 | 624787 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

I posted this in another thread, please forgive, but it is relevant.  RICO against Citi, Ally, and MERS.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:05 | 624789 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

As is this -

The Kentucky suit claims MERS and the banks violated the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, a law originally passed to pursue organized crime.

“RICO comes in because the fraud didn’t just happen piecemeal,” Heather Boone McKeever, a Lexington, Kentucky-based lawyer for the homeowners, said in a phone interview today. “This is organized crime by people in suits, but it is still organized crime. They created a very thorough plan.”

The suit, which includes claims of fraud, also names as defendants other banks, real-estate law firms and document- processing companies.

In the Phoenix litigation, U.S. District Judge James A. Teilborg found that the mortgage banks properly named MERS as the nominee for the original lenders and that the plaintiffs didn’t include enough detail in their allegations that the banks formed MERS to conspire to deprive homeowners of their property.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:47 | 624865 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

    Bankers in Jail... Nada

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:07 | 625008 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Re: The re-election prospects of culprit #1, Barney Frank:

The money-quote: "It's much more of a race than it has been in prior years, but from our perspective, it would be a real loss to Massachusetts if Barney's not re-elected," said Daniel Forte, president of the Massachusetts Bankers Association

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:27 | 625110 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"it would be a real loss to Massachusetts' bankers if Barney's not re-elected"

There. Fixed it for him.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:35 | 625133 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

@ Conrad

“RICO comes in because the fraud didn’t just happen piecemeal,” Heather Boone McKeever, a Lexington, Kentucky-based lawyer for the homeowners, said in a phone interview today. “This is organized crime by people in suits, but it is still organized crime. They created a very thorough plan.”

and Max Keiser has an opinion on rico bankers and the price of gold:


Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:05 | 624790 E pluribus unum
E pluribus unum's picture

won't this just make the banks' balance sheets look better? If they can't foreclose the real value of these "assets" remains hidden

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:13 | 624804 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

True as MTM has been 'suspended', however, the loan would still be in an NPL status  - not certain how they will handle it - moreover, the overt concern is the foreclosure transaction on one hand which will be 'suspended' in court for up to 24 months due to backlog on one side & the MBS trust on the other side trying to lay claim to the asset - a Lawyer's Payday & significantly bad news for the banks as they will need to defend both sides of the lawsuits - What would Matlock Do?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:17 | 625238 sushi
sushi's picture

however, the loan would still be in an NPL status  - not certain how they will handle it.



I should think it is abundantly clear that if the banks do not know who holds title to the property then they are free to play "pass the parcel" to determine who it is that holds the NPL loan and who is the unlucky fool who will be ultimately required to mark the loan to market.

"That's not my loan. Mine are good. That is in your tranche. You have to record the loss."

"You cannot prove that. You never assigned title to me. You still the hold the property."

"It is your property and your loss."

"That is not what my lawyers will argue."

It is absolutely certain that employment will tick up within the legal profession.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:26 | 624940 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Ah, geez!  Da banks done broke their printing plates!  No more creating currency out of thin air!  "Golly beav, you're gonna get yelled at when Dad gets home!"

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:42 | 625217 AGORACOM
AGORACOM's picture

Technically, you're right but practically speaking, I don't think it will matter at this point.  Banks will crash on the uncertainty over what the hell they actually own.  Selling will begin gradually, then expect to see a sprint for the exits.

The Greek .... From Canada


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