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Is A 90 Day "Mortgage Meltdown" Foreclosure Moratorium Imminent As The RoboSigning Scandal Goes Mainstream?

Tyler Durden's picture


The Massive Mortgage Mess as we affectionately call it seems to be getting new names with each passing day - the latest one is, quite appropriately, RoboSigning Scandal (funny how after the stock market, "robotic" technology will soon becoming equated with the biggest mortgage scam in history). During today's Kudlow segment, CNBC's Diana Ollick who is by and far the company's best (and only) investigative reporter, confirms various so far unfounded rumors, that the government is planning to institute a 90 day foreclosure moratorium as it deals with the realization of just how big and pervasive the mortgage problem is, and even worse, will soon be. It is so bad that even a typically ebullient Larry Kudlow is forced to note that this is the "housing equivalent of the credit financial meltdown" and that "this is going to go on for ever." The biggest issue that is now developing, as we noted last week, is the fact that title insurers (firms such as Fidelity National, First American, Stewart Info and Old Republic) are refusing to insure mortgages in foreclosure or otherwise, uncertain as to who actually owns the title. And for all those who believe this will merely keep prices artificially high, we have very bad news - the problem with the title insurers walking away on fears of lawsuits is that no lender will be willing to write a mortgage without title insurance, meaning that suddenly the up-front component of home purchases will either necessarily have to surge, or home prices will have to plunge by a like amount, as there is simply not enough equity (read money) to cover the resulting debt deficiency. Alas, this mess is just starting, and as people realize how bad it is, it very well may lead to a total collapse in the housing market.

For all those hoping on a quick resolution so that Americans can go back to watching Dancing with the Stars, you may wish to reconsider. Quote Kudlow: "We're not talking just a few weeks, or a few months. This sounds like a long, drawn-out, bureaucratic, robotic process with lawyers, and oh my gosh." Another implication: a veritable bonanza for both lawyers and defaulters, the former of whom will end up making billions in legal fees (collected from the same banks which are still sucking off the ridiculously low TLGP-funded, and thus taxpayer sponsored fees), while the latter will be able to live mortgage free for years, while continuing to buy useless trinkets instead of paying what is contractually their duty.

Another important topic discussed is the fact that due to decades of faulty securitizations, suddenly no bank knows who owns what. Courtesy of several trillion in now title-undefined mortgages, which in turn form the basis for thousands of CDOs, which in turn are split up into millions of tranches, and includes the complicity of Fannie, Freddie and private label, it is the banks and their clients that have shot themselves in the foot: as other have noted, very soon, the entire MBS process can and very may grind to a halt (if that happens, goodbye Pimco).

As mentioned earlier, Ollick confirms that according to rumors, the government is going to impose "some kind of 90 day foreclosure moratorium on the banks which would melt down the housing market." In fact Congressman Merkley already indicated he is for a foreclosure moratorium.

At the end of the day: the one true loser, is the law-abiding, conscientious, tax and mortgage paying middle class American, who is now preparing for TARP 2 as the banks will all almost definitely need to run to the bailout through because of this catastrophe.

Must watch 10 minute explanation for anyone who is still confused by any aspect in this massive story.



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Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:34 | 624954 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

do your own research.  don't let on to the banks what you know

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:17 | 625092 minus dog
minus dog's picture

And people paying off student loans need to request the same from their (government hired) servicers - not that it is likely to do them any damn good.  I know people who haven't been able to get anything even remotely resembling a promissory note after months of effort.

But you can bet your ass Uncle Sam will garnish your wages if you don't pay... there is no recourse for the little guy who can't afford a lawyer.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:16 | 624910 Mitchman
Mitchman's picture

The silence from Wells Fargo is overwhelming.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:30 | 624950 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

4 more days~

October 1, 2010

Host Melissa Block speaks with director Charles Ferguson about his latest film, "Inside Job," a documentary about the downfall of Wall Street. Ferguson says he underestimated the level of unethical and fraudulent behavior he would come across.

NPR Interview ~

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:40 | 624970 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

no shit, they supposedly hold my note...

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 06:05 | 625321 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

...and mine also.  I am waiting for the right moment to shove a two-by-four right up their ass.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:27 | 625371 snowball777
snowball777's picture


Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:53 | 624987 Sausagemaker
Sausagemaker's picture

+1 Black-Hole Swan...

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:16 | 625019 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

 Fat Swactober.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:20 | 625024 Kali
Kali's picture

Maybe they think if they hide in the corner, all quiet like,  no one will notice them.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:16 | 624911 grunk
grunk's picture

Crash the housing prices so I can file for a re-assessment.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 06:05 | 625322 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Starve the beast, bitchez.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:18 | 624917 cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

Isn't this the last quarter for the banks to mark securities down a 'la FASB?  If so, this isn't a turd in the punch bowl, it's diarhea..."damn this punch is pulpy!"

None the less, Gubberment shouldn't let the states pull this rabbit out now, certainly when O-bla-bla and friends are suing AZ because we love Mexican food so much.  I say F-k the piece of shit that took out a loan at 5X earnings on some McMansion, kick his ass out, I'll buy it for investment property.  About time we start rewarding the level headed fiscally sound citizens up in this bitch!

This Country has lost its way big time!~

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:27 | 625111 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

why not let 'em "pop the Champagne corks in a house they don't pay for"?  Who cares?  Honestly?  You?  Why?

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:19 | 624919 Uncle Sugar
Uncle Sugar's picture

That's just what I've been thinking. Q4 should be good for the banks since loan loss provisions will approach zero as no one is being forclosed upon.

And if things really get serious, Uncle Ben can just click some more key strokes and whip up a few trillion virtual FRN's.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:33 | 624953 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

There is no way that this is good for banks. They will lead the way down. The market has already been sniffing it out.

The gov. owned banks, Fan and fred, are not taking the hit. They have been sending the loans back the servicung banks.

The banks will incur the  risk costs of fixing this, and they won't get bailed out this time.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:01 | 625001 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

I think a ton of toxic waste/mbs are located in the european banking system also ...

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:06 | 625006 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Bring back mark to market and maybe we can start to believe in banks again. But it doesn't look anytime soon.

I don't think anyone knows or wants to know what their level 3 assets are.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:20 | 625025 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

Lies come back to haunt eventually. For as my dearly departed Irish mom used to say-"No lie is lawful or innocent, no motive can excuse a lie because a lie is always bad in itself"

Mortgages-The Big Lie

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:44 | 625220 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

I seriously hope that your wife never asks you if those loolu lemons make her ass look fat, or you my friend could be in for one helluva shitstorm.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 04:52 | 625294 Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

Wifes querie

"Honey , do these loolu lemons make my ass look fat ? "

Snappy correct answer : "No, your ass makes your ass look fat "

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:19 | 624920 jomama
jomama's picture

'we don't know who is entitled to the money, we don't know who's supposed to get it, but we know it's due and that it needs to be paid'

amazing.  i have to hand it to holding institutions playing musical houses, though.  they have kept the carade going this long.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:24 | 624931 cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

oh yeah, and Grunk, per your: "Crash the housing prices so I can file for a re-assessment"


Don't be as naive as me, I tried it already.  I went up to the county court house and sat in front of 10 red necks and tried the same thing...Let's just say I was slightly out numbered.  They wouldn't reassess my home value as they said it was a "distressed sale" as it was a relocation company that owned it.  Apparently, corporate relos are not in the same boat as a foreclosure.  Again, f'd up!  Long story short, I tried the "I should only pay taxes on what I paid" arguement et al.  It didn't work, even though I paid a whopping $200K less than appraisal and a full $100K less than assessed.  I heard all the hoopla about "you should be happy, you're making money".  My God, disaster trying to argue with idiots!


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:10 | 625184 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

You might want to get more familiar with the assessment board member requirements in your area.  Know of a person in a very small town who bought a piece of property for pretty low price.  Owned some adjacent lots.  Assessment board decides to tax him in the first year more than he paid for the property because, from their viewpoint, the value just went up tremendously as now he owns adjacent properties.  Plus they probably figured that he could afford it.

He met with them, they wouldn't budge.  He researched the criteria on the assessment board composition, and pretty much no one on the board qualified.  Raised the issue, moved to get the board vacated.   Suddenly they wanted to drasticly lower his assessment.  He succeeded in getting the board removed, and invalidating all appraisals made by the board.  The town is having to start over, due to their arrogance and stupidity.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:30 | 625375 Catullus
Catullus's picture

On some level, that makes me happy. 

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:26 | 624939 Zombies On Toast
Zombies On Toast's picture

Aren't people missing the point? It is not a question that people will get a free house, they shouldn't because they defaulted. The real problem is that the courts have been defrauded and that "due process" has gone out the window. Without "due process", as guaranteed in the Constitution, and the rule of law, we just become a banana republic.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:10 | 625011 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

Ultimately, it goes back to the original problem of leveraged CDOs, and the the banks will not get bailed out of this one. The response would be hysteria.

Fannie and Freddie are not going to take the hit.

The goverment needs moneyed scape goats. I wouldn't be suprised if the the CDO investors and the banks both take the hit. 

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:27 | 625207 RighteousRampage
RighteousRampage's picture

I disagree.  Fannie and Freddie will absorb a good chunk of the losses when the foreclosure process grinds to a halt.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:34 | 625039 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Oh yeah, we get it, but got over the banana republic thing two years ago when they said they "didn't need no stickin' badges" and stuck us with the tab. If I get a cheap house it's done. I paid already.

I can see why Bonnie and Clyde were supported by the masses against the banks. People had the same antipathy.

I like the idea of local governments offering deals to occupants for cheap and paid tax liens, or some such. Munis have to survive. Nobody is paying taxes on the zombie houses. Banks are getting a free tax ride, plus they're keeping the houses on the books and creating fractional fiat money out of it to invest elsewhere. 


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:29 | 625119 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

r u saying the government itself might be forced to acknowledge the rule of law?  well....isn't that interesting....

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:35 | 625383 Catullus
Catullus's picture

I'd say this would be a problem absent government.  It's an issue of property rights and specifically who owns what.  The collateralization process has distrupted what had been a very simple determination of who owned what in a foreclosure event.  The courts in some areas have been convinced that this was too complicated to figure out, but that presented a dilemma that should have been addressed when the first home mortgage contained in CDO defaulted.  It's a massive legitimacy issue for courts across the country and it will endanger the republic (if it even exists any longer), but the problem will still remain.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:27 | 624941 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

The answer to this post yes.   Yes, yes, yes.   The Banana Republic takes down the Republic of Ponzi.  Frankly, most of the securitizations of mortgages did not follow simple property law so many of those bought title without making sure that it was theirs....yes, so they cannot come in and sue on something they did is called in a law:  "perfecting an interest" and Florida is a State where you have to "perfect" or you are fucked.  It is on the Bar Exam a lot as a trick question.....gosh the lawyers forgot to be lawyers.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:29 | 624947 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

Oh, and the collusion one could prove...the evidence of the "collusion" was already produced in easy form on this website - just this one.  It is all so inter-related.  Back to drinking and watching Tom Brady ignore the pictures of Miami.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:29 | 624948 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Ah, hell, this is no big deal.  We'll all be financing the Islamic way in 30 years anyway.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:36 | 624955 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

muhammad can refi my .45 to his turban.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:38 | 624962 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Sharia will frown upon that...

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:47 | 624967 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Sharia can take it up with Mr. M107

M107 has already had a meeting with sharia

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 03:13 | 625262 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Not people, rock chucks from Varmint Safari 2:

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:55 | 625227 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

No one wants to fnance this.  No one.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:30 | 624968 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture
IMF Lending Arrangements as of August 31, 2010 Past IMF Disbursements and Repayments for all members from May 01, 1984 to August 31, 2010 Special Drawing Rights (SDRs) Allocations and Holdings for all members as of August 31, 2010 Arrears: April 30, 1997 to August 31, 2010 Darfur Sudan Genocide
Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:42 | 624972 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

Could someone please start some online gaming game where we can "short on short on short" everything that is going on.  The US has not legalized gaming yet (but it will it will have to) but England relented.   Or we could all park our servers in Uzbekistan etc.   That would be a more honest market.   And funny.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:53 | 624988 vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

All this talk of AHs news and black swans...and US futures are flat as I type this.


Bots don't understand BOOM.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:39 | 625304 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The Dollar is goin' spelunking again, while Gold is cruising on the Space Shuttle (again!)

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:55 | 624990 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

Gosh and it will not go on forever if we just look at it square and deal with it for what it is .... whoever wrote those mortgage securities was a brilliant person for the short term and a complete moron for the not so distant future from short term.  The crack inventors went back to cocain eventually.  We all know that.  But now is not the time for baby steps.  Not at all.    All of anything has "value" because we, humans put the "value" on it.  Let's come up with a new and different price "list"....that has no .99 or .95 in it, I would prefer.  Even nos. are just well - even.    It all could be fixed in a week and then we could fight over how it was fixed.  At least the arguments would be fresh.  This is so old.  Like expired wine and nasty plates on the counter.  Ok.  Said my peace.  I am out and a real "thank you" to you you funny funny funny and very spot on community.   Whereever you are.   Peace.  We are all market makers if we want to be.  Thank you Goldman Sachs for teaching us what awful "market making" is....we appreciate it and apologize for all the "wealth" you are getting ready to lose.   We won't be as mean to you as you were to us.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:56 | 624992 dot_bust
dot_bust's picture

It seems like we won't have to worry about the suspension of mark-to-market accounting. We just got instant price discovery for mortgage-backed securities. They're worth zero, nada, zilch, nothing.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:52 | 625226 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

No they are worth "less than zero".  No pun intended.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:57 | 624993 xi
xi's picture

Zero Hedge said that a CNBS Kudlow talking head video clip is a "must watch?"

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:06 | 625005 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

The end times are nigh, expect Moodys to cut its own credit rating as this madness plays out.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:26 | 625029 xi
xi's picture

Indeed, what dark times are these when the banks do not meet their lowered earnings guidance.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:31 | 625124 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

a downgrade of Treasuries at record low interest rates....hmmmm.  that would be interesting.....

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:57 | 624996 Return2Sanity
Return2Sanity's picture

On the positive side, this should help solve some municipal budget problems. Once the government starts seizing these properties for back taxes, anyone who thinks they are the real property owner will have to come forward and prove it, otherwise the government gets to keep the entire sales amount...and problem solved: clean title via tax sale.



Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:44 | 625050 Kali
Kali's picture

Earlier this year, a small rural county I work in tried to auction off 15(?, mightta been 12) tax sale houses.  No one bought any of them.  I don't think ANY house will sell, some in desirable places, yes.  This will be a burden to local governments in a big way.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:25 | 625108 minus dog
minus dog's picture

Why should they sell, given the complaints from higher up this page from people who can't get a reassessment.  

Local governments are going to positively RAPE homeowners to varying degrees, in a vain effort to keep their heads above water.  Their behavior is only going to get more random and nonsensical.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:35 | 625624 Return2Sanity
Return2Sanity's picture

I think that's going to change over the next year or so. After a local government seizes and sells a parcel of property, it is extremely difficult for anyone to mount a legal challenge to the property title. You can come forward and stop a sale before it happens by paying the taxes, but once it's done, there's no going back. If I were buying property right now, I would definitely bid more for a tax sale property than a comparable bank foreclosure.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:33 | 625128 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

oh! and of course "you'll be the one paying taxes on that worthless piece of shit"!  yeahhhh--a GREAT idea!  State and local LOVES this one...

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:58 | 625230 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

Not totally true.  Depends on the state.  But, in Florida.  You are right on the money.  The tax lien remains unpaid after being bought on the open market from the municipality - if they perfect, and I am confident smart investors will get some lawyers to perfect...hire the collection attorneys to do it costs probably $5k at the most.....but clear title is such a golden opportunity when attached to land.   Florida got GREAT control of property ownership by the municipality - by Statute and state Constitution which trumps the Federal because well, that is Con Law 101 and if you don't know don't know shit from Sherlock.  

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:00 | 624999 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

as i have said many times before....

Fuck a banker...let the pendelum swing n favor of the citizens...

The Scorecard

Bankers:30 trillion

The people:nothing as of yet

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:37 | 625628 Bob
Bob's picture

A four minute must watch:

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:09 | 625002 thermroc
thermroc's picture

"The puffed up images of gold and silver,
which after the sack were thrown into the lake,
when found, shall astonish and disturb everybody.
The inscription[s] on the marble shall be interpreted as laws."

Nostradamus, 1558


"An older strand of institutional economics understood that a security is a contract in law. It can only be as good as the legal system that stands behind it. Some fraud is inevitable, but in a functioning system it must be rare. It must be considered – and rightly – a minor problem. If fraud – or even the perception of fraud – comes to dominate the system, then there is no foundation for a market in the securities. They become trash. And more deeply, so do the institutions responsible for creating, rating and selling them. Including, so long as it fails to respond with appropriate force, the legal system itself.

Control frauds always fail in the end. But the failure of the firm does not mean the fraud fails: the perpetrators often walk away rich. At some point, this requires subverting, suborning or defeating the law. This is where crime and politics intersect. At its heart, therefore, the financial crisis was a breakdown in the rule of law in America.

In this situation, let me suggest, the country faces an existential threat. Either the legal system must do its work. Or the market system cannot be restored. There must be a thorough, transparent, effective, radical cleaning of the financial sector and also of those public officials who failed the public trust. The financiers must be made to feel, in their bones, the power of the law. And the public, which lives by the law, must see very clearly and unambiguously that this is the case. Thank you."

Statement by James K. Galbraith, Lloyd M. Bentsen, jr. Chair in Government/BusinessRelations, Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs, The University of Texas at Austin, before the Subcommittee on Crime, Senate Judiciary Committee, May 4, 2010


"Fourth Turning - Crisis
A CRISIS arises in response to sudden threats that previously would have been ignored or deferred, but which are now perceived as dire.  Great worldly perils boil off the clutter and complexity of life, leaving behind one simple imperative: The society must prevail.  This requires a solid public consensus, aggressive institutions, and personal sacrifice.

People support new efforts to wield public authority, whose perceived successes soon justify more of the same.  Government governs, community obstacles are removed, and laws and customs that resisted change for decades are swiftly shunted aside.  A grim preoccupation with civic peril causes spiritual curiosity to decline.  A sense of public urgency contributes to a clampdown on “bad” conduct or “anti-social” lifestyles.  People begin feeling shameful about what they earlier did to absolve guilt.  Public order tightens, private risk-taking abates, and crime and substance abuse decline.  Wars are fought with fury and for maximum result."

William Strauss and Neil Howe, The Fourth Turning, predicted to begin around 2006.


I predict the Patriot Act and it's ilk will ultimately be turned and used against the financial industry and it's quislings, by a righteously enraged population. If I was a banker, I would be very concerned about my future right now.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:44 | 625306 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I predict the Patriot Act and it's ilk will ultimately be turned and used against the financial industry and it's quislings, by a righteously enraged population. If I was a banker, I would be very concerned about my future right now.

Another round of waterboarding and agressive rendition for my Bankster friends!

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:10 | 625009 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Know what would be a kick in ass? If the title insurers or banks got uncle sucker, sam, to backstop the titles on all foreclosure home sales to keep the market moving along.

Title insurers are smart to walk away here. They've have a scam running like a Swiss watch for years. Who else woukd want liability and toxic asset problems. The taxpayers of course!

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:30 | 625035 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

Yeah, if they can figure out who to backstop the titles for. The messed up tranches of CDOs along with the screwed up MERS processing errors don't leave a clear trail. This problem will not go away that easily. Then, there is the CDO investors. What about them?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:36 | 625136 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

there be some VERY wealthy people in that space.  politico types better beware--this is something VERY personal. someone at some point might request a "valuation to the organization" schematic.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:45 | 625307 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

All politicians better avoid Dealy plaza like the plague!

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:11 | 625012 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Saw the title issues coming. That'll lock up properties, and keep a lot the second wave from coming on the market. A squatters dream.

IL, NY, and I think FL, too, are in the 23 judicial states.  Mostly in the Northeast and mid-west.

Not CA or NV though.


Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:15 | 625017 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

The 23 are:

New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
South Carolina
South Dakota

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:31 | 625036 Kali
Kali's picture

Educate me.  Even in non-recourse states, how can they demand payment or foreclose on property they have no title on?  This is out and out fraud.  I can not see how any securitized, passed-thru-a-million-hands mortgage can be enforceable.  But I am not a lawyer or a real estate person.  In non-recourse states, would not a person be able to sue/prosecute for fraud?

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:52 | 625059 Arthur
Arthur's picture

The law will recognize the banks as the proper owners.  Who else is claiming to hold the mortgage?  There is no fraud.


The issue is that they *ucked the paperwork big time.  The affiants (low level bank employees) committed perjury in falsely attesting that the reviewed the paperwork.  That perjury occured does not mean that the banks were not entitled to forclose, only that the paperwork may not have been in order.  Fraud would occur only if the banks did not have a legitimate claim on the mortgage and the right to foreclose.  Exactly how is the non-paying mortgage holder being harmed when he is kicked out of house he has not been paying for?

That said, as any good defense attorney knows, it not a question of who is right but whether it can be proved in a court of law.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:12 | 625086 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

"The law will recognize the banks as the proper owners."

No, it's more than that. The banks might NOT own the homes. Loans were sold so often (without proper transfers of titles) that the chain of title might be broken. Titles/loans may not have been properly transferred into RMBS trusts. Even if they were, all of the owners of the RMBS trusts have to participate in the foreclosure for there to be standing. And if some of the tranches have already been paid off, there might not be able to be standing. And title may have been clouded on millions of homes, even if the person has been paying (who owns the note?). Original notes may no longer exist. Some may be held by bankrupt organizations. This not a simple problem. This is systemic fraud brought about by the entire securitization and mortgage origination and services processes.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:37 | 625140 minus dog
minus dog's picture

The problem isn't in who does or doesn't get kicked out, it's in the process.

It's easy to say that "of course" the bank owns the home.  But whether it is fraud or incompetence, the most best way to prevent paperwork shennanigans of either kind is to tell the offending institution "too bad, so sad, you screwed up, now they have a free house".

I just can't imagine that anything less would be even remotely effective.  The rule of law needs to prevail, and "oh well, so it's messed up, we'll let the court figure it out" doesn't do any good when the problem isn't noticed or the victims can't afford a lawyer.

Or are we just going to say, screw the little guy, we're not here to protect them?

I've said before, it is not unreasonable to expect paper pushers to NOT fuck up paperwork involving what is, for nearly all individuals, large sums of money.  If they can't do this, then perhaps there is a problem with their business model.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:07 | 625357 mophead
mophead's picture

LETS NOT SCREW THE LITTLE GUY? Are you trying to say someone who paid too much for a home and can no longer afford it, or decides they don't want to pay for it is a little guy, really? It's not enough to bail out the dead-beat banks, but you ALSO want to bailout speculators and wreckless borrowers? Pathetic.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:59 | 625066 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture


In the 23 stopped states you have a Judge checking papers before Foreclosure, so the banksters bailed to avoid openly committing fraud. It's going to spread to all 50 states pretty quickly one would think.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:38 | 625142 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

interesting.  is that New York on that list?  North Dakota as well?  What are we talkin' there?  30 bucks an acre?  Why would they care i wonder?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:54 | 625502 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

North Dakota as well?  What are we talkin' there?  30 bucks an acre?  Why would they care i wonder?

This might be one reason to care:

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:17 | 625022 Deflationburger...
Deflationburger with Fleas's picture

Was waiting on my paperwork to close on my refi from Wells.  Damnit.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:22 | 625026 onlooker
onlooker's picture

Think we can swap some of this housing paper to Greese for some their bonds?? Oh, I forgot, we already sold a bunch of this stuff to other countries. One does have to laugh about the China thing. We ban toys with lead paint and sell them billions in toxic securities like housing tranches or is that trenches.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:22 | 625027 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Good discussion, but you missed one important point:

Diana Olick is hot.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:39 | 625144 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

she is now.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:17 | 625434 snowball777
snowball777's picture

She seems to be seriously considering the proposal from the guy in the middle...maybe you do have a shot.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:44 | 625485 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Haha!  I got a least an inch on that guy!

Seriously though, she's very smart and has a very pleasant speaking voice.  Even the apocalypse doesn't seem so bad what she reports it....

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:22 | 625594 snowball777
snowball777's picture

She seemed to do a good job of conveying the details behind one clusterf*** of a story. Fire the other fluff and double her salary!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:53 | 625678 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Hear, hear!

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:23 | 625028 traderjoe100
traderjoe100's picture

If the government just took 1/2 of every single IRA, 401k, saving account, and checking account in the USA, and used that money to pay for all this, wouldn't that help?


Also, the government could consider doing a complete takeover of housing and just build and give every citizen a house.  Make housing a right!


This might fix it.





Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:03 | 625073 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

You must be kidding. That is communism.


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:39 | 625145 minus dog
minus dog's picture

I think it's sarcasm.  But it's also exactly what a lot of people are thinking about this very moment.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:08 | 625081 drwells
drwells's picture

"Make housing a right!"

It already is, as long as you weren't dumb enough to pay for it.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:02 | 625173 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

not to be confused with traderjoe, without the 100. :)

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:27 | 625032 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Maybe someone can answer a question for me....

Why is the dollar the only currency that is indexed?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:04 | 625075 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Because it's the worlds reserve currency, good anywhere.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:55 | 625504 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

This month.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:39 | 625042 Arthur
Arthur's picture

So if all the foreclosures are held up, exactly why should the housing market go down?  The banks were not moving the property anyway and those that were sold were about 25% below market.  Title insurance will still cover an owner selling with enough cash to cover the outstanding mortgage.

In the short run why would the housing market drop?  All the potential cheap repo housing just got pulled.  Where housing prices goes all depends on the unwind.

Of course this may prompt government backed refi's at lower affordable rates.  Not everyone is out of a job and if your interest rate fall from 8% to 4% maybe you can afford the mortgage payment and hope your home value recovers.  Why live rent free for 6-9 months if you can lock in affordable payments.  Most people are not so crass and flexible as to gamble on the benefit of short term non-payment if they can afford to pay locked in low rates.

A refi clears the decks of the prior questionable paper, it is an obvious but not the only solution.  Hardly doomsday.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:03 | 625074 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

Dylan and Bill explain it:

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:50 | 625311 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Title insurance will still cover an owner selling with enough cash to cover the outstanding mortgage.

You're living in fantasyland if you think that Title Insurers are gonna be able to cover all the garbage out there!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:04 | 625541 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

They don't have to cover 'all the garbage'.

They have a very specific contract and the problems we're talking about are occurring after the effective date of the policy - they only cover claims arrising from matters prior to the effective date of the policy.

What title insurers (ORI at least) told banks was:  You made this mess, you clean it up.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:38 | 625043 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Squatters rights.

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:41 | 625047 bronzie
bronzie's picture

Martin Armstrong charts a 26 year cycle in real estate - peak in 2006 - trough in 2032

I've been wondering how we could have RE in a downtrend until 2032 - some aspects are obvious:

- Boomers downsizing (ultimately into coffins and urns)

- shadow inventory

now I can add another bullet:

- clouded titles / lack of title insurance

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:54 | 625063 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

When will you folks wake up? Hand writing is on the wall for global defaults. Your bankers are going to create a terrorist attack to begin the final plans. Have a look.

Currency Politics


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:37 | 625139 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Oh, we know it's all coming apart like a straw house in a hurricane. We're just quibbling about the physics of deconstruction, extinction level events, and who the genius was that shorted brick. 


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:05 | 625078 drwells
drwells's picture

"At the end of the day: the one true loser, is the law-abiding, conscientious, tax and mortgage paying middle class American"

Surprise. Who the fuck else ever loses in this shithole?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:23 | 625101 gwar5
gwar5's picture

More signs of the Apocolypse....strongly bullish for gold

Ron Kirby at Goldseek (via GATA today): JPM acting as proxy for the FED, looking to lock up gold production for spot from miners. More indications JPM short positions getting squeezed, covering paper leverage, and FED hedging fiat currency.

Drudge: "Super-rich investors buy gold by ton"  &  "Europe: Coldest winter in a 1,000 years on it's way"


No blood in the streets yet reported.


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:24 | 625107 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Just a magician. Illusions are rampant.

Analyst Nate Hughes examines the tactical implications of militant attacks on NATO supply lines at the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.
Pakistan, Saudi Arabia in secret nuke pact Islamabad trades weapons technology for oil

Obama promises to bring the troops home from Afghanistan.

Barack Obama on Afghanistan and Pakistan



Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:28 | 625113 daneskold
daneskold's picture

Delay is not the only thing that will happen.


Since the transfer of the mortgages into the securitization pools were not accomplished according to the proxy registrations with the SEC, the mortgages are illegal, unregistered securities.  

In many states, such as Utah, the mortgages may not be enforced against the borrower where the ultimate holder knew that the transfer was not done correctly.


That's right.  Trillions of purportedly secured debt is in fact unsecured.

In states such as Florida, homeowners can file bankruptcy, claim a homestead exemption, and get the house free and clear.


Other states are not so generous.


Nevertheless, this is a BIG, BIG issue.



Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:45 | 625223 merehuman
merehuman's picture

= derivatives= trillions based on pffft +sizzle

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:28 | 625114 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

Banks knew this was coming, no mortgage market, fannie and freddie only game in town, they purchase 96% of all home mortgages, the only one truly getting hosed in this is the taxpayer.  Makes me sick fannie and freddie exist.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:02 | 625171 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

W/O Payment income, banks go under.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:53 | 625312 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Guess it's time for a tax strike!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:29 | 625116 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

crooked banksters bring debased money which leads to pathological economics which leads to moral bankruptcy....

we can thank central banksters for this mess going all the way back to the cabal which shoved this monstrosity down our throats in 1913....and i would not want to overlook the fat disgusting pedophile barney frank - who has operated the best little whore house in washington for lo these many years.......

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:29 | 625120 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

This is just political theater because of the election.  All these states and banks have had their own versions of "foreclosure moratorium."  It started with padding the loan with 6 months of arrears, interest and penalties to boot.  After TARP there was more hi-jinx.  Fact is the log jam is keeping the housing market from collapsing with too many OREO.  Stop paying your mortgage, keep the taxes paid and keep your bank on the hook with empty promises.  Live free for a year easy.  Kill your "credit" but then take your cash and go buy the same house for half the price.  If you have a job that is.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:33 | 625129 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

honest, how do you guys do this? i step away from the computer for 3 hours and you have 200 posts. i mean, i just have to snort, a lot. ok i will spend the next 2 hours reading or else enjoy something else, not about reading the doom and gloom of it all.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:52 | 625160 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Reality is a hard pill to swallow. How do you expect to survive Kathy?


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:34 | 625130 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

No one gives a fuck if you have lost your house or job. No one gives a fuck if you lost money on your 401K or flash crash trading. All they care about is how much money they can fleece from you. Remember that you can make changes. Don't feel threatened by a corrupt government.

Globalization is nothing more than the constant search for cheap labour and the constant upgrading of infrastructure all across the earth. Thus improving the infrastructure of previously 'unindustrialized countries' and accessing a whole new ununionized labour pool. The new world's that are created and improved through road, rail, energy, and hospital projects that are built by huge multinational corporations and paid for by unwitting outside investors. Before all the public works' projects are completed there is a debasement to pay for the projects with outside investors' money because it was 'lost' during the stock market crash or crash of a company's stock (debasement of vehicle of monetary exchange).

During the debasement period the "inside" investors are selling short, 401k's/entitlements etc. are frozen until the company pays out whatever debts it can with whatever liquid it has left., then the company goes bankrupt, it's assets are filtered off to a subsidiary/holding co that was formed prior to debasement, the projects they were building get snapped up at fire sale prices. Now the projects are paid for, the companies get their money and the country gets its infrastructure for their people to work jobs cheaper than other people in the Old World will work them

Along the globalization trail, TPTB monopolize all the resources they can under corrupt regimes that most of the time they put into power. Then take control of all essential parts of the economy; food supply, energy and mineral resources, fresh water sources, precious stones, cash crops, telecom, and healthcare. The foreign multinational corporations use cheap labour to assemble their goods while owning all other utilities the people of the country use. Once the cheap labour and resources are exploited, the globalists pick up and start the search for a new land to build up. Every new world is built on the dollar of outside investors and tax payers. Outsourcing is the only way the king can afford the peasants wages.

It started with canals, ships, and marinas in olden days and evolved into railroads, locomotives, then into trucks and roads, and most recently aviation. Every logistic means throughout history has been payed for by the outside investor through the use of debasements. Bubbles are built up on the word that 'the good times will never end' and popped on 'we never saw this coming' - all made possible by governments pretending to fail all across the world. All three tiers of government (soon to be four; federal, state, municipal, and soon, Union) are chalked full of failures.

The same groups of companies get the contracts for foreign nation building, usually spawned off each other, tracing their way back to a group of banks that operate throughout the world. These companies debase vehicles of monetary exchange (stocks and stock markets). Most of them having intimate ties with the World Bank. The financiers' of globalization stay the same. Once projects are completed and economies successfully debased, wars are waged to pay for economic recovery and fulfill whatever geopolitical agenda these global financiers have. After the era of fraud there is a period of boom and the cycle repeats itself, the size of the war usually depends on the size of the debasement that preceded it.

Once the Vehicle of Monetary Exchange is debased, the stolen money is laundered through various organizations (charities, non-profits, Legatus, museums). Once the money has been laundered there needs to be a war to destroy the paper trail (the fog of war) so they need an event to set off the war. If multiple countries' economies are down, it will be a global war (each country fighting with it's favourite enemy). At this time the financial sector will air its laundry, and we'll start hearing about frauds and accounting errors. This will lead to federal bodies (FINRA, SEC) bringing cases against the scapegoats (Skilling, Conrad Black) and we will have show trials with show judges (Crater, Landis). The trials will bring justice to the 'rogue conspirators and that's that.

The new bubbles are usually being built up as the current bubble is popping. These bubbles are allowed to happen through manipulation of laws. In America, the crash (era's of fraud) usually coincides with the end of one presidency and the start of another and occur every 4 years. In the lame duck sessions of a presidency, all previous corporate criminals get pardons. This timeline repeats itself throughout history.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 03:02 | 625243 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

When the shit comes down I hope I see you George. I might be the guy serving your food, or operating on your heart. I only wish I could be the person to see your last breath, I would die a happy person.... ;)

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 11:21 | 625976 Pinky
Pinky's picture

Reinhart, is that you?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:37 | 625137 cbaba
cbaba's picture

This event is so big, it may trigger the collapse of the financial system..

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:05 | 625176 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

It will. Banks will go down, derivatives go off, bonds blow up and then sovereigns go bust...

Get your Gold and Silver now or forever hold your peace.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:03 | 625231 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

No.  It already did.  It just "happened".  It happened a while ago.    Now "they" have to admit it.   The Prodigal Son - they have to admit or they die.  This is HILARIOUS.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:51 | 625151 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Oh...shit is on tonight....


Central banks are all on their period. meow.

Go BOJ! Go BOJ! Go BOJ!Go BOJ!!! go, go, go go, go, go

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:44 | 625153 UBC
UBC's picture

This is the most overblown issue of the year.  What we have here is a paperwork problem.  Lenders and servicers merely need to be sure that they have gathered up all of the assignments of a mortgage they are about to foreclose on. This is a standard procedure, for example, whenever a pool of loans are assigned.  Occasionally, the paperwork will not be complete.  But there are service firms who are experts at tracking down necessary signatures (even from defunct institutions) when that happens.  Nothing to see here.  Move along.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:48 | 625158 bronzie
bronzie's picture

"there are service firms who are experts at tracking down necessary signatures"

or creating the needed documents out of thin air ... for a price

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:06 | 625178 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I guess UBC hasn't read the articles or seen the videos.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 07:42 | 625388 daneskold
daneskold's picture

Overblown?  Wrong.

The issue is that the failure to have properly transferred the mortgages to the securitization trusts breaks the tax status of the REMICS.  The transfers cannot be done now because the transfer of a defaulted mortgage into a REMIC destroys the status as a REMIC, causing a BIG tax event.

If the transfer is done too late, the mortgage may be put into the security trust, but the certificate holders would take a tax hit.


And, the terms of the trust specifically prohibit transfer of a mortgage in default into the trust.

Ex post facto transfers make the problem bigger.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 15:24 | 626959 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

This is the most overblown issue of the year.  What we have here is a paperwork problem.  Lenders and servicers merely need to be sure that they have gathered up all of the assignments of a mortgage they are about to foreclose on.

Thanks for dutifully repeating the MSM version of this situation FROM TWO WEEKS AGO.  Now -- go fill yourself in on what has evolved since then. 

There is a lot info so it may take a while.  For you, probably quite a while.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:44 | 625154 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

is that Ben Bernanke claiming "we're still money good here"?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:45 | 625155 davidsmith
davidsmith's picture

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the U.S. didn't know this was happening.  It encouraged and plotted the robosigning!  It will all come out in the cases.


As I said before, and as Reggie Middleton showed, the U.S. has ALREADY forgiven home mortgage debt.


I thought Zerohedge and its readers were supposed to be ahead of the curve!  Ha ha!  Apparently NOT.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 15:26 | 626966 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

I think it would be fair to refer to Reggie as a full-fledged ZH'er, NO?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 00:48 | 625157 Something Wicke...
Something Wicked This Way Comes's picture

I just clipped a piece from a MSM article. Too funny. You cant make this shit up.

However, Bernanke acknowledged that the Federal Reserve has struggled to figure out a "magic bullet," when it comes teaching financial literacy, saying, "we don't know as much as we would like." He said the Fed has monitored many such programs, and he suggested that some don't work all that well.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:16 | 625161 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Special thanks to Reggie Middleton for posing in this image (respect ;-)).

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 05:56 | 625317 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Whoa Reg!  You're large and in charge! :>D

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:09 | 625175 Irrational Exub...
Irrational Exuberance's picture

CHECK OUT THE RAMP IN PRICE OF SILVER AT 05:02 GMT Tuesday 4 Oct!  Impressive volume too for 1am New York time and 5am London time!  It looks like the banks are in need of further bailout! QE2 and TARP2 are a comming at any time and both together!

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:38 | 625214 Kali
Kali's picture

Yup, interesting.  I might not be able to sleep tonight.  Is everything gonna blow this week?  Has the main turd really hit the fan?  Kripes, I better go take my blood pressure.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:11 | 625181 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I would short particle board manufactures at the moment. Overpriced McMansions are going to get another haircut. This includes New and Existing slash/Used homes.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:09 | 625182 Korg
Korg's picture

I would think that all the banksters knew this was going to happen long ago. This isn;t a big surprise to them. it seems planned to "burst" upon the scene now IMHO.

It almost seems to be part 2 of the mortgage's how they are going to unload all of the crap mortgages to the Govt....for whatever nefarious reason.

It is Very unsettling to think of the Govt owning all of our mortgages.....especially with unlimited govt power in the future....


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 03:30 | 625219 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"unsettling to think of the Govt owning all of our mortgages"

Since they have totally ignored the law under which they were formed (the Constitution), it is time for the people to totally ignore the fraudulent laws that they have subsequently enacted. Reciprocity is totally fair.

If the next Congress doesn't immediately get started on repealing every single law that is unconstitutional (as many candidates have called for), then the people will be justified in rolling out the tumbrils again.

However, the best solution is to get rid of the whole fucking lot of them and go back to private enterprise and free market capitalism -- with private contracting, competing currencies and private ratings and insurance agencies.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:00 | 625401 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:13 | 625186 killben
killben's picture

I am sure Ben Bernanke is smiling .. Here is another opportunity to shaft tax-payers...

Looks like shafting will become is main occupation for some years to come if this mess blooms out in its full glory!

Let us look forward to more lending acronyms soon!!



Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:21 | 625198 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I own two homes paid for in full & hold the deeds.

If central bankers think the general public is going to take this laying down. HAHAHAHA.

The peasants will use the bankers very own code against them.

Uniform Commercial Code

Jordan Maxwell on the Law of the UCC: Uniform Commercial Code
Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:32 | 625208 daneskold
daneskold's picture


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:34 | 625212 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Krud-low: "I call it chaos."
The way Larry is jabbering a way at 800 words a minute right out of the gate... pausing only to <gasp> air...

I call it:   Coked-up Krud-low

Now back to you Larry...

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:06 | 625232 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

My name is not Rockefeller or one of the other name is no one.   nothing.  zero..   This IS Fight Club.


We are anonymous.

We are Legion.

We do not forget.

We do not forgive.



Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:08 | 625235 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

Yes I stole 1/2 from 4 Chan but those fuckers can do really good denial of service attacks.......and they promote porn of all kinds and then "compile" the info and turn the kiddie porn fuckers in after they connect the dots.  Gotta love em!


We are anonymous.

We are Legion.

We do not forget.

We do not forgive.


WTF is wrong with that?  Nothing at all.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:12 | 625236 Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

That 4 Chan board could have fucked this market if they cared about it last damn year....fucked it right up the ass!  They found the puppy thrower ....and the cat bin dumping lady and are incredibly contining to fuck with law firms that work for the RIAA and the other thingy that sues for pirating.   That little miscreat board does action.   Miscreants I have respect for.    Who the fuck are we?  Obviously not our namesake.  Obviously.  Fight club draws blood. 

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 03:50 | 625272 minus dog
minus dog's picture

Dealing with one-off idiots and obvious douchebags like recording industry lawyers is one thing, this is another.

Not enough of the /b-tards have enough finance/economics education to perceive the problem, pick an appropriate target, and act effectively to gain a desired outcome in something market-related.  Most are smart enough to learn, but blinded by some ideology or other.  You can't monkey-wrench a machine whose goals and workings you're ignorant of.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:23 | 625240 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

I have a 150 IQ, I went to harvard, and the following are my thoughts on housing in America.  To my mind, most of the issue of the housing market rests upon the issue of crime.  Clearly when the dollar declines dramatically, or collapses, dollars will be dumped as part and parcel of that.  But when the dollars are dumped, where will they go?  They have to come back to America and buy something.  When Swedish krona are dumped, they eventually end up purchasing something made in Sweden by the Swedes, or otherwise native to Sweden.  Similarly for the dollar; during terminal decline currencies go home to roost (in some form or another).  Well what does America have, that is of value? 

Well historically speaking, a good answer might be people.  Though I dont entirely rule it out, it seems unlikely at this stage of history that global and also domestic reserves of dollars will be used to purchase Americans themselves.  There are two arguments in support however. 

The first is the notion that Americans as a whole have not definitively shown that they can en masse adjust to life working as (essentially) skilled peons in non-service sector jobs (for example).  This is an oft-overlooked fact-- i.e. that Americans at this stage in history are by nature and by constitution ( i mean their body/mind constitution) unemployable in a modern economy, except as slaves.  By slaves I mean effective chattel, property used to do largely manual labor-- as opposed to, for example, skilled factory labor.  I think they would see the former as invigorating, while the latter their minds and bodies would find intolerably boring.  And after all, as scientists would tell us, and in spite of the wear and tear, invigorating manual labor may very well be more healthy than sitting 12 hours a day at a sewing machine, as is the wont of 10s of millions in asia.  Of course many commentators will say that America has to restructure its economy, i.e. retool, and build up its manufacturing base again to the degree it can.  On paper this sounds pretty cool-- my only question would be, “Who would the factory laborers be?”  Surely not the Americans in my state.  The trend in America for 70 years has been towards greater profligacy in mind and body.  The mind can in theory adjust, and adapt where it needs to.  The body is another story; there a much deeper reversal is needed, obviously.  Seamstresses and coal miners we are no longer (for better or worse). (Incidentally, and in a similar vein, when some suggest the downturn here will be so dramatic that it will rival the Great Depression, and that there will be bread lines, I have to sharply dissent.  While I readily admit the former, re. the latter, I would sooner see a somewhat orderly line or gathering descend into a tumult within 15 minutes or so, followed eventually by screeching tires and flying bullets as a couple of SUVs drive up, a few men jump out and shoot or threaten the bakers, as it were, and take off with the whole supply all within 30 seconds.   The point being --  aint no muddafuckin Americans I know gonna be standin in no damn BREAD LINE!!  SHIITT! )  

The second argument in support of global reserves driving up the market for warm bodies in America relates to accounting efficiency, and maybe karma.  A large percentage of Americans (and Europeans) already have body markings which are not familial/tribal in origin.   Throughout history, which class of people have overwhelming bore bodily marks/brandings of non-familial origin?—slaves, of course.  In addition, many Americans already bear various Asian, and in particular Chinese, characters on various parts of their bodies, and so this might provide for greater market efficiencies.

Anyway, my point about housing was going to be—the world is overloaded with USD of decreasing value, and the US is overloaded with millions of badass luxury houses.  The irony is as clear as the solution is elegant and obvious.  But it remains a sort of tantalizingly resolution of the dilemma, that will presumably not come to pass, because in between then and now would likely lie abysmal levels of crime, and of course a geopolitical abyss.  The crime stats have , I know, not shown it yet… as goes the currency, so goes the crime level.  We are still in that gently Weimarian Deflationary trend in crime—and then, as the historians’ say-- the Witches’ Sabbath, where Americans find themselves stooping to pick up ANY work….  a Fellationary-- er-- Inflationary depression



………………    ………..        ……………….AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:02 | 625406 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I have a 150 IQ, I went to harvard, and I spend my time spamming on message boards.

You're clearly a genius on the douche bag scale.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 11:16 | 625962 Lord and Master
Lord and Master's picture

HEYY man, watch it! *elbows*- dont dirty the threads here (pun int.) .. this aint no rodinary message board ;)

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:32 | 625244 markar
markar's picture

But ALTA (Am Land Title Assoc.) said today none of this will impact buyers of foreclosed properties because they bought "in good faith"


Are they joking?

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:27 | 625454 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Not exactly, but buyers of these speciously-titled props will have basis for several civil suits (against the servicer trying to foreclose without papers in order, against the title company and MBS originator for fucking up the title transfer, etc).

They'll be spending a good deal of time in court; I do not envy them.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 09:24 | 625597 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

The title companies will be paying some claims, no doubt.  Then they'll go after the seller - the banks in this case.  The good point is that the banks commonly give deeds with limited warranties of title - which can be enforced in court if the bank's title was not marketable.  And the lenders (unlike most private sellers) have deep enough pockets to cover warranty claims.

Many states do have laws on the books that offer some protection for good faith purchasers.  It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

A purchaser should file a claim with their title insurer immediately if they run into trouble.  Failure to file a claim quickly can result in the claim being denied.

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 02:36 | 625247 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

Republican or Democrat, does't matter. But the commitment Bush gives to the American people to follow "The American Dream" is lays the groundwork for the mess:

  • No downpayments
  • Tax credit to buy a house in inner city neighborhoods
  • Make legal stuff easier when buying a house as people get nervous from legal stuff
  • Eliminate home ownership barriers


Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:03 | 625409 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

That all started under Clintoon with Bawney Frank handing out freebees; not Bush.

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