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AARP Screams Bloody Murder, Warns Against Changing CPI Definition And Cuts To Social Security In Pursuing Budget Compromise
While it is unclear what precisely has given Obama confidence to announce that his meeting with congressional leaders on deficit reduction and the debt limit was "very constructive" one thing is very likely: it involved the change of the definition of CPI. As we reported some time ago, one of the serious proposals to deal with the deficit situation is to make a revolutionary actuarial adjustment and change the way the actual definition of inflation. As we reported: "Lawmakers are considering changing how the Consumer Price Index is calculated, a move that could save perhaps $220 billion and represent significant progress in the ongoing federal debt ceiling and deficit reduction talks. According to congressional aides familiar with the discussions, the proposal would shift how the Consumer Price Index is calculated to reflect how people tend to change spending patterns when prices increase. For example, consumers tend to drive less when gas prices increase dramatically. Such a move is widely seen by economists as resulting in a slower rise in inflation." Today the WSJ's Damian Paletta follows up on this ludicrous yet serious proposal: "One proposal in the budget talks that is getting a serious look from all sides would switch the government’s way of measuring inflation and delivering a big impact on tax, spending, and entitlement programs. How big? It could save roughly $300 billion over 10 years. That big. The idea of using this different measure of inflation, known as a “chained” consumer price index, has won support from numerous deficit-reduction commissions as well as many liberal and conservative economists." Yet reminding everyone that there is no such thing as a free lunch in finance, the "biggest savings—an estimated $112 billion—would be from slowing the growth in the cost-of-living adjustments for Social Security beneficiaries." Sure enough someone is unhappy. Enter the AARP which is already screaming, justifiably, bloody murder should the administration proceed with what will be an outright slashing of Social Security obligations. "AARP will not accept any cuts to Social Security as part of a deal to
pay the nation’s bills,” said Rand. “Social Security did not cause the
deficit, and it should not be cut to reduce a deficit it did not cause." Did Obama's war with America's seniors just enter Defcon 1?
First, some more details on what is actively being contemplated as a "budget rescue" measure":
The idea of using this different measure of inflation, known as a “chained” consumer price index, has won support from numerous deficit-reduction commissions as well as many liberal and conservative economists.
To be sure, it’s complicated stuff. But it’s seen as a central way of reducing the deficit because it simultaneously cuts spending growth and increases tax revenues. And many also like it because much of its impact doesn’t come from “cuts” in spending. Rather, it would reduce the “growth” of spending pegged to inflation. And it would affect the way tax brackets and deductions adjust for inflation, so it could appear less like a tax increase than simply raising tax rates.
Some liberal groups and top lawmakers believe that it’s the same thing as slashing benefits and have been holding press conferences pre-emptively blasting the idea to try and keep it out of any deal. And some influential conservative groups believe the impact on taxes is tantamount to a tax increase and are likely to fight it.
Perhaps with enemies on both sides the idea just might have a chance.
Spread across the entire budget, chained CPI is a big money maker. Reducing the deficit by roughly $300 billion over 10 years would make it one of the most vital components to any deal that aims to reduce the deficit by $2 trillion to $4 trillion over that span
Simply said, the proposal, if enacted, would reduce the NPV of the future SSN liabilities which as is well known are among the biggest portion of future entitlements, and while the data adjustment would not change much in current terms, it would impact how much is obtained from the fund by future SSN recipients.
Not surprisingly, the AARP has finally understood what changing the CPI definition means. The resulting angry letter is the first response. Many more will follow.
AARP CEO A. Barry Rand this morning offered the following strong statement as key congressional leaders meet with the President today to discuss a framework for a deal to raise the debt ceiling and to address deficit reduction. AARP is focused on protecting Social Security and Medicare for the millions of beneficiaries who have paid into the systems over their working lives, and reiterates its position that Social Security and Medicare benefits should not be on the table for deficit reduction.
“AARP will not accept any cuts to Social Security as part of a deal to pay the nation’s bills,” said Rand. “Social Security did not cause the deficit, and it should not be cut to reduce a deficit it did not cause. As the President and Congress work to negotiate a deal to raise the debt ceiling, AARP urges all lawmakers to reject any proposals that would cut the benefits seniors have earned through a lifetime of hard work.
“AARP is strongly opposed to any deficit reduction proposal that makes harmful cuts to vital Social Security and Medicare benefits. Social Security is currently the principal source of income for nearly two-thirds of older American households receiving benefits, and roughly one third of those households depend on Social Security benefits for nearly all (90 percent or more) of their income. The deficit debate is not the time or the place to talk about Social Security. AARP will fight any cuts that are proposed to this important program, including proposals to reduce the cost of living adjustment for beneficiaries (COLA)—such as the proposed chained CPI—which AARP also believes should not be considered as part of the debt ceiling or deficit reduction negotiations.
“AARP also strongly urges the President and congressional leaders to reject any proposals that would impose arbitrary, harmful cuts to the Medicare program or shift additional costs onto Medicare beneficiaries. Half of all beneficiaries live on incomes of less than $22,000, and many already struggle to pay for their ever-rising health and prescription drug costs.
“Some have proposed requiring Medicare beneficiaries to pay even more for their Medicare benefits, either through higher co-payments or higher premiums. AARP strongly urges you to reject higher costs for people in Medicare. Before we shift additional cost burdens onto beneficiaries, Congress should address the real problem of increasing health care costs throughout the entire system.
“Throughout the deficit reduction and debt ceiling debate, AARP will continue its efforts to raise the voices of our members who depend on Social Security and Medicare for their health and economic security,” Rand concluded.
Alas, we doubt this statement will do much to change the mind of the administration which is now openly robbing America's elderly to fund its relentless spending and specifically the uberwealthy which continues to transfer the NPV of future obligations into currently overfunded checking accounts. We wonder how long before other popular organization enjoin the protest, although we have no doubt would be.
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You realize, then, your only real alternative is to basically enact a set of conditions which, when a person falls below them and will/can not return above them, it becomes the government's imperative to eliminate them as an economic drain to society.
The country tried that -- with even economic-enforced eugenics -- about a 100 years ago or so.
Again, I would challenge you to show me the numbers. From what I've read, the easiest fix to SS is to simply raise the retirement age to whatever is needed to balance the income and outflow. Not fair? Tough shit. Life isn't fair.
It's pretty clear: They Don't care about the Votes any longer....
if they can alienate the AARP, I say No Election in 2012.
Bank that.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/a-year-and-a-day-later/
Yeah, it's just smash n' grab time now. No more subtlety, just brazen robbery, cuz the end is right around the bend and they're gettin' while the gettin' is good. Absolutely incredible.
They cut Social Security by enough, and they'll get their wish.
Good luck being "productive" when you can't get to work because of 60,000,000 people rioting/zombie-ing/dropping dead.
just raise gas prices to $15 a gallon.....no one will drive a car and then social security can lower to ZERO
zirp and ss cuts, someone must pay for the bailouts and stimulus. suck it up granny.
Why should they? They won't even be eligible for the WWIII draft.
ARRP members join for discount insurance, travel, and other goodies. Most of them don't know any of the bozos who sit on the board or hold paid positions. Their positions mean squat.
Their lobby dollars ($165M in the last 5 years) speak more loudly than you might think.
And most of their membership is retired. Lotta time on their hands . . . needing things to do. I wouldn't challenge that cohort to a public relations war. Those fuckers will show up. Big.
I don't recall ever 'joining' AARP. They just magically started sending me crap when I reached a certain age. I've often wondered how they get around the marketing regulations that are supposed to prevent you being 'opted-in' without ever consenting. My wife and I just throw their crap away when we get it. I didn't join, I didn't 'subscribe' to their damn magazine or their incessant direct mail offers. They are a huge marketing organization that are out to sell you stuff under the guise of looking out for senior's interests.
Then why don't you 'opt out' of whatever benefit you get as a result from their advocacy, like what they're fighting for right now. Give away a third of your SS check (whatever amount is due to their efforts), you fool.
Because the flip side of their 'advocacy', as you like to call it, is larger and more wasteful government - Obamacare, for instance.
And where do you think
the third of your SS check (whatever amount is due to their efforts)
came from? Thin air? No, someone else had their money taken from them to pay for it.
So you're the fool - or someone who believes in robbery. Take your pick.
As long as this change to the CPI begins in 2023 (those currently 55 and younger) AARP has already expressed their willingness to accept change. What's the problem?
I've seen the training photos of this.... Pensioners are preparing for war!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_f98opUNuVXc/SCqjdl0X5NI/AAAAAAAAATI/lbL5Mr31sC...
I think they should mount the blades to the walkers and joust.
Barry got by with passively stiffing the unionists, both in his own policies and his mute response to widespread labor "uprisings" (primarily in the public sector) nationwide, but he won't get by with this shit. His lesson in what it actually smells like is now just beginning in earnest.
At least 40% of social security recipients live on those checks alone.
What the press fails to mention, the fund is solvent. It is just that the excess contributions were stolen for tax cuts.
I know. The whole fucking mess is a scam. It's the people who don't and won't need it simply seizing an opportunity. Sociopathic, but in those wondrous tones of "being serious adults."
One would think that seniors must all be senile. While their kids really don't give a shit.
I'm not buying either one. Stay tuned . . .
What the press fails to mention, the fund is solvent. It is just that the excess contributions were stolen for tax cuts.
Comments like this convince me we have no hope at all.
It would be not only solvent, which it is, but cash positive if Treasury would simply pay on the "securities" the fund bought from it. Responsibility and all that? Serious adults?
Protecting "investors"? Somehow all investors are not being regarded as equal by TPTB.
Not following what you're trying to say. SS was a misdirection from its inception...just IOUs backed by current revenues, that are now IOUs backed by creditors. There were never any securities in the sense of set-aside claims by payers.
What I balked at was the notion of subordinating lower taxes to an entitlement program that was broken at birth.
Yep.
Solvent... as in 100% invested in (bankrupt) US Government debt. Since the government doesn't make or sell anything how are they "creating" the return on investment? This isn't Norway where the fund owns 3% of the world's publicly traded stocks. The Social Security Trust Fund loans money to Congress to fund the pork orgy today, and Congress promises to pay the Social Security Trust Fund back tomorrow principal plus interest by taxing the masses with a tax other than Social Security (so both the principal and interest have to come out of income taxes or other general revenue).
the pork orgy
Too funny!
Yep.
It will soon be just like the Eastern European pensioners. They barely receive enough to feed a dog.
We’re dealing with a government whose word is no good, whose handshake is no good, whose contract is no good. It will steal from you every chance it gets.
This isn’t moral hazard; it’s moral bankruptcy.
2001: "This isn't taxes..... it's just inflation"
2011: "This isn't inflation..... it's umm..... nothing really"
Oh, and as for the social security haters, who forever only see one side of the coin, here's a hint: Wage discussions also are calibrated to official inflation :-)))))))
Race to the bottom! Don't ask, don't see, don't tell! Lalalaaa.....
Who gets raises anymore?
Revised CPI (no-flation) calculations were successfully implemented over in Canada a couple of months ago... the response, by MSM or otherwise was, well..., nothing. Quoted media stated, "It was time to revise the calculation of inflation to better measure, and reflect, the present day changes in general prices for modern goods and services."
Jigged retirement checks, subsidized ZIRP cost of funds for central planned banksters but, lose a hockey game..., only then is it riots in the streets.
Part of the Bernank's plan to end inflation in 15 minutes, I suspect.
Still, it's a way for the edumacated sophists' guild, aka lawyers, to loophole their way to salvation and hosanahs.
Fortunately, the FDA requires dog and cat food manufacturers to make their feeds human edible.
AARP= All about rapping people
Rap battlez!
Sorry that should read "raping people" AARP raping old people and citizens since 1958.
I've been warning my Mother-in-law that she had better start protecting herself from the shitstorm brewing.
When I told her that her social security and US Dollar Savings were destined to dry up like a piece of bread in Death Valley, she replied, "Well, they can't do that!"
Sounds like n-o-r-m-a-l-c-y b-i-a-s?
I can hear your M-I-L now...
After the $$$ Crash:
Meow, meow, meow, meow.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLaGKzcYppU
Classic...
That's what Herbert hears when his M-I-L is yakking at him...
Save the rich (by keeping tax breaks for the top 1%) and rob the old (they don't even know what CPI is!).
The new American Way
"Tomorrow will be worse than Yesterday"
Actually, no :-) This isn't specifically about old people, even though AARP complained first, and even though the proposal vaguely highlights "reduced government spending" (haha, those fucking treasonous liars.... no, this isn't about spending less - it's about something else).
Hint: Just take a step back, and consider which things are calibrated to official inflation stats......... you're about to get raped. They can now devalue the hell out of you, without ever admitting it and thus compensating you. This is legalizing inflation without those on the receiving end being eligible for compensation - PERMANENTLY.
So after the non-existent inflation is too high for Seniors to afford to buy dog food any more, what are they to eat then? WORMS?
Why not instead have enough integrity to admit that we have overpromised and we can't pay so that we can begin to find a real solution and hopefully find a way to salvage a future? This is just more delay and decay!
I don't use the kinds of words that I'd like to with these weasels! Please, someone! Get a rope!
Soylent Grey
Nobody likes me, everybody hates me,
Guess I'll go eat worms,
Long, thin, slimy ones; Short, fat, juicy ones,
Itsy, bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms.
Down goes the first one, down goes the second one,
Oh how they wiggle and squirm.
Up comes the first one, up comes the second one,
Oh how they wiggle and squirm.
“the proposal would shift how the Consumer Price Index is calculated to reflect how people tend to change spending patterns when prices increase”
Yah that’s the ticket, what inflation?, see don’t think of it as dog food but chopped steak in a can, meat is meat after all. So even though the ‘same’ uncanned unchopped steak you bought a few years ago is now 10x the price per pound in Benny Bucks its all meat just the same so ‘no’ inflation, move along.
Just ask Eddie;
"I don't know why they call it Hamburger Helper. I think it does just fine all by itself."
I prefer Purina's diabetic cat food, it's high protein and low carb!
Ah, trotting out the old hidden tax, are we? If you can't legislate legitimately, then legislate deceptively. Seems perfectly in keeping with DC's legacy.
Inflation, "not one man in a million can diagnose its cause," so this one's a winning idea...only 150 voters will be agqainst it.
Should do wonders for TIPS sales...not!
Nice avatar...
I hereby wave the 9th Rule of Fight Club for you, Serf...
Granny won't be able to afford to pay her AARP medigap insurance premium, nevermind supplementing her cat food based nutrition plan.
Fuck Granny: she let sound money die on her watch.
Inorant ass ... sound money died with the creation of the Fed Cartel. Greenspan even wrote before becoming Fed chairman that the Fed caused the inflation of bubbles of the 20´s and the stock market crash. Read some history.
Did someone let Boskin back in?
WTF would Congress care? They don't contribute nor do they participate in SS so yea, they are happy to slash it. I bet they don't touch their own obscene (almost pornographic) pension benefits one bit. Just a hunch...
Why even debate the CPI and how its made.......it should be eliminated...you put in 500$...you get out 500%...for those of you who think SS is so great...that is what it is about....it never was a retirement program..and it is not a welfare program...period...
The excess money put in was to earn interest but this did not occur. Enough money was put in to fund it forever without any more payments. Even tho the richer were exempt.
Perception management is in high demand these days.
Historians will look back at this era in 100 years, in 2111, and will call it:
The age of the collapse of the GREAT CON JOB.
It's irrelevent who promised what to "seniors", or who caused the deficit/debt problems. The fact of the matter is that there is no way to actually deliver on the promised Social Security, Medicare obligations. There is no choice but to redefine the systems and cut what is actually delivered or else there is no hope of ever having anything close to balanced budgets or sane fiscal policy. It may be sad for many, but it is reality. There just is no way to raise enough tax revenue or borrow enough to deliver on all of the promises that people expect/hope for.
This is reality, get used to it and adjust accordingly.
They didn't vote or him; he owes them nothing. Under the bus, granny.
SS didn't cause the deficit? These blue hairs are really starting to get senile. SS and Medicare/Medicaid are the biggest of the unfunded liabilities that are bleeding the working poor dry. Fuck that shit. Before Roosevelt and his grand fuckup people saved for retirment, then they took the steps to make sure they could survive in the waning years, not rely on the nanny state to pack them away at "The Villages" in fucking Boca for 15 years living high on the hog and screaming bloody murder every time someone wants to knock them down a peg.
“the proposal would shift how the Consumer Price Index is calculated to reflect how people tend to change spending patterns when prices increase”
Yah that’s the ticket, what inflation?, see don’t think of it as dog food but chopped steak in a can, meat is meat after all. So even though the ‘same’ uncanned unchopped steak you bought a few years ago is now 10x the price per pound in Benny Bucks its all meat just the same so ‘no’ inflation, move along.
Just ask Eddie;
"I don't know why they call it Hamburger Helper. I think it does just fine all by itself."
I will let them keep every penny I've paid in over the last 30 years if I never have to put another cent into the ponzi SS, that's my final offer!
It was not a ponzi. Fully paid enough to have no more contributions. The funds were stolen to keep income taxes lower even tho not enough to cover the wars.
Social Security money was not stolen. It was not spent. It was taken in the front door from workers and sent out the back door to retirees... exactly as it always has been, exactly as it was designed to do.
The years we ran a SS surplus, we invested the money... just like the law says. The law prohibited investing in anything other than government bonds, so that is what they did. They lent it to the treasury in exchange for an IOU. That is called "investing in government bonds".
I've said it before in here, and I'll say it again and again until everybody gets it: YOU NEVER PAID SS TAXES TOWARDS YOUR OWN RETIREMENT. You paid for current retirees, And when your time comes to retire, every penny of your SS check will come from that time's workers... exactly as the system was designed.
Social Security is not a savings account. It is not an annuity. It is not an investment account. IT IS JUST A TRANSFER PROGRAM.
There is a name for an investment plan where money from new participants is used to pay earlier members: Ponzi scheme. These are illegal and considered a form of fraud (except of course when the government runs them). They collapse when they run out of new suckers to victimize. The baby boomers didn't have enough children to support the scheme so they are going to be left holding the bag.
Good luck in convincing the new crop of young Hispanic recent immigrants to support a bunch of aging white people.
Yep. It is good to see some folks get it. Too many live in a fantasy world, where SS was some sort of great pension system, up until those dastardly politicians screwed it up in the eighties.
It was a Ponzi from the beginning, and like all Ponzis, it paid well for the first in. That fooled the masses. But eventually, those "returns" dry up, as they must, because they were fictional returns.
So how does this work? If prices go up, they don't count as much for inflation? Really??? What a bunch of hocus-pocus.
Essentially they're replacing the "Cost Of Living Adjustment" with just a "Living Adjustment".
I love how they always use gasoline and driving as the primary example to justify the adjusted behavior theory, when in fact it's a horrible example because gasoline is not easily storable (by the average citizen) and its price is erratic. It's also hypocritical, because it's excluded from core inflation.
In reality, perceived future inflation/deflation is what drives consumer behavior. If you think something is going up in the future you consume it today. If you think its going to fall, you wait to consume. If you don't believe me, just look at housing purchases from 2002 to 2006 vs. 2008 to 2011.
BTW, housing is 40% of CPI. Think of how much they'll save under this new adjusted CPI plan if and when housing finally recovers.
I at least give them some credit for proposing something that touches the normally off-limits entitlement programs (even if it's only an indirect scratch at the surface), but this is definitely hocus-pocus bullshit.
That's why they call it a fixed income. They will fix you alright. Fix you realllll goooood like.
And furthermore, Al Gore can keep his f'ing lockbox
Inflation-adjusted income for working-age americans has been tanking for lord knows how long. Granted, social security aint much but at least seniors have been receiving some semblance of a cost of living increase while the rest of us are collectively LOSING money.
Typical.
No new taxes, just new fees and redefining how much of your money you get to keep (or lose).
Just wait, withdrawal limits, fees, or outright annuity scheme confiscation of savings and retirement accounts are next.
They will invent some fine euphamisms for them, write them into an obscure bill so both left and ride sides of the aisle can posture in front of the camera and bullshit their way into another term.
CPI calculation is already a joke; and now this?
"Chained" CPI - what an ironic term; no doubt humorous to the slave-masters of Wall Street and Washington.
How's about cutting some of the Congressional Salaries?
Government waste?
Medicare/Mediciad embezzlement?
Wasteful Wars?
Bank Bonuses?
...etc.
Why crush the Seniors of our Nation?
Sooooo, does this mean - if you ate steak you can now eat hamburger, if you now eat hamburger you can eat cockroaches, if you now eat cockroaches you can eat dirt? And, wine->tea->water->cat wizz?
No. That sleight-of-hand is called "substitution". This a whole 'nother animal.
I'm planning that the SS money I've entrusted the government to save in the "Lock box" is gone forever (and the compounded gains it should have made over many years.) SS is just another tax to those of us who will almost assuredly never see a cent of our SS money again.
The simple mathmatics of the government's upcoming SS liability and lack of available funds is typical of government. They have proven for 100+ years that they cannot be trusted with money. No one receives more income and no one is deeper in debt, than the government.
Avoid the "government reliance" trap at ALL costs !
How will the US continue Global Gobble (oops, I meant war on terroism) if it's broke and has to keep sending grandma $ every month?
Apparently that choice has been made.
"Freedom" at all costs. For those who can afford it, of course.
"Was the housing bubble really caused by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the Community Reinvestment Act, Barney Frank, Bill Clinton, “liberals” and so on? That’s what a growing army of people now claim. There’s just one problem. If so, then how come there was a gigantic housing bubble in Spain as well? Did Barney Frank cause that, too (and while in the minority in Congress, no less!)? If so, how? And what about the giant housing bubbles in Ireland, the U.K. and Australia? All Barney Frank? And the ones across Eastern Europe, and elsewhere? I’d laugh, but tens of millions are being suckered into this piece of spin, which is being pushed in order to provide cover so the real culprits can get away. And it’s working."
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/time-different-or-will-next-financial-c...
When we acknowledege the source of our issues, we can resolve the issues... how many people know the AARP has held "consultative status" with the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations since 1996 - that's how long they have been working on implementing the UN agenda into our system... http://www.aarpinternational.org/usr_attach/AARP-UN-Brochure.pdf They also work worldwide to implement the same agenda...
BF et all did not cause the problem they only jumped on the Greenspan Giveaway post 2001 crash.
"Was the housing bubble really caused by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the Community Reinvestment Act, Barney Frank, Bill Clinton, “liberals” and so on?
Yes. And now that the vig is off the housing market it will correct to where it would have been and possibly more as the money firehose is shut down.
Supercuts for everyone. Social Security, Medicare, bond holders are all going to have to share the shame, blame and pain. The only ones that will not have to suffer will be the FED, the banksters, the politicians and the government employees who got us to this point.
Damn that AARP. At 56, I still get solicited every three months to join. That group is the epitome of a self centered-I want mine and I don't give a Flying F--k on a rolling doughnut about anyone else- entitlement mindset that will suck the country dry--and they have time to vote because most of them aren't working.
That's what AARP does, that's their mission, their goal, their raison d'être.
How can you blame them for doing what they get dues to accomplish?
I don't blame my dog for chasing rabbits.
It's not an approval of what they do, it's an acceptance.
This current government is so broken right now it is beyond me how and why things are not more screwed up. The House of Representatives is supposed to initiate the bill, debate it and pass it on to the Senate and then request the president's signature (and I've intentionally streamlined the scenario). What they are doing right now is effectively eliminating all of that and getting three or four people to represent the entire process by meeting with the president and behind closed doors no less. What the hell kind of representation of the people is this by our congressmen?
btw I knew that internet porn was the end of everything.
Why?
The majority of Amerikans... especially politicians and lawyers... were just sitting around jacking off anyway...
At least it's a happy ending.
Except for Weiner... HAH-HAHA-hahaha-ah...hah...
Hamburger helper works on house pets, raccoons, coyotes, etc. Think out of the box, because decades of business and bank lobbying coupled with politicians giving away the future to buy votes today have bankrupted the country totally and completely. They are an alien species, and have nothing to do with the depression generation, WW2 babies, boomers, gen x, or anyone else. They are a self centered, power mongering plague of ticks on the belly of society going back centuries in history. No generation can lay claim to the disease that is our demise on legs, pulling the levers of power. Just make sure you slow cook your new dinner so it doesn't get all leathery and tough to eat. Long on varmits and spices bitchez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look out! Be careful of what you wish for.
Forgive me, Mr. Andrews, but it seems there aren't enough lifeboats for all the passengers on board...
Make the temporary Bush tax cuts for the wealthy permanent, and instead cut social security? I knew this would happen, that this temp extension of the tax breaks would never be reversed. Fuck you, Obama, you fraud. This would be yet another goosedown comforter for the monied. This is not compromise.
This is not about corporate jets but about the systematic transfer of money to the rich, from everyone else. And there you go seniors, the great many of you who put scum like Boehner, McConnel, Cantor, Kyle, Demint in office to represent your best interests. See how the Christian shit, the pro-life noise, the homophobia measur up against these guys' key agenda and your tacit ignorance of the selfishness and stealing thatmaybe only now is striking you in the face. Are you too stupid or careless to recognize even now?
+10
They shoulda thought of that before they got old!
Screw Grandpa?
The Scooter store will start offering an AK-47 mount on all new Scooter purchases for the month of July.
Medicare approved of course.
This video will bring you point home. Granny with MP 40 Machine Gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB7iz1HTh9U
Tell a pensioner that you are going to cut his paychecks by 3% next year and he will scream bloody murder; maybe even retaliate. Tell him that he isn’t getting a COLA for the rest of his life and he is likely to be more sanguine about it; probably not realizing it will likely reduce the aggregate purchasing power of his remaining checks by 20-40%. Pension managers and politicians are discovering that meddling with COLA’s and other CPI adjustments are the easier albeit sleazier approach to cutting benefits over the long term. Why take them head on when you can sneak up from behind and shiv em in the kidney?
The word is shank. A verb. (Motions as if stabbing with a knife.)
Now, who wants some lemonade?
Hey Old People...
Quit watching the fucking TeeVee, the idiot corporate whore news media, and voting for the same two corrupt parties...
Then maybe we can affect some real change after Bastille Day...
How the Federal Government Subsidizes AARP
Grants for counseling, fraud prevention, etc.
Much more goes to other organizations.
ACORN got fried for getting much less!
Folks, here's a consideration about the future of the USA which many of you probably haven't made yet:
Most of you think that the USA is on the path to collapse. That may quite possibly also happen. But what if not? "Huh? How is the current path supposed to work?" i hear you ask. Well, perhaps you're making some wrong assumptions about the plans of "the elite". You have your sight fixed like a laser, on the US being a consumer nation, that will stagflate..... so that some big "endgame" happens...
That may happen - but it may not be what those at the top are planning. Take a close look at how the USA is changing..... it is rapidly inflating the dollar, is pushing wages to the bottom, via gov sponsering of wages (either directly, or indirectly via social programmes..... yes, the current intensity of socialism ultimately is there for the CORPORATIONS, NOT for the serfs). It also should be quite obvious even to the planners, that the current path cannot work out...... you assume that they're just stupid, or plan for some endgame..... but what if they instead ask themselves:
"Well, let's see..... perhaps we can kill two birds with one stone.... to get rid of the debt, we inflate it all away - and keep the population in check via handouts..... but in the process, we also pave the way for transitioning to an EXPORT-economy).
Those of you hoping for more local production may ultimately get just that....... but it won't be the kind of it, that you wanted....
Human organ trade? Sex slavery? Finance?
They already export finance everywhere, and the customers didn't even have to agree.
But i agree - no clue about just WHAT to export..... the economic doctrine is capable of shifting there, but i cannot come up with actual goods.
Human misery per se ain't worth much without a spigot of natural resources to sweeten it, as we've known in the case of the Africans. I'm at a loss as well. Movies, I guess.
Actually WHAT is not important, the important thing is convincing the people who make stuff and sell stuff to RELOCATE to the US (regardless of whether they were ever a US company, and even if the US is not one of their target markets for sales).
Given the large required numbers- the output would need to include raw materials, manufactured goods, as well as the current agriculture, military-industrial and "services". The problem is that REGULATION (basicaly entire departments) need to be eliminated (not "streamlined"). The LITIGATION RISK needs to be reduced. And the TAX CODE needs to be overhauled (so that corporations don't pay income taxes (or taxes on dividends to overseas shareholders), if engaged in legitimate [non-financial] business) - Basically engage the rest of world in everything EXCEPT labor arbitrage - and businesses will want to RELOCATE operations to to the US (hiring people, building new factories, creating demand for houses, and all that shit- the cash flow to the government is through wages/income taxes, sales taxes, fees, etc.) the entrepreneurs will answer the WHAT- government has demonstrated that it is utterly incapable of answering the WHAT or even succeeding in basic central planning. The two handicaps the US would keep would be higher wages and a poorly educated workforce with unrealistic expectations - but this would necessitate otherwise overcompensation on the other components of the value proposition.
So, by your estimates, the gov would need to make china look like a joke - total sellout of the state and public to corporations - to get corporations back.
If that were true, then this would be even more braindead than your usual run-of-the-mill export nation. Which doesn't necessarily need to mean that "they" wouldn't try it.
Oh, and i disagree about wages..... they can get wages as low as they want to..... at least, the wages the corporations will pay, as opposed to the wage the taxpayers will pay one way or another.
Right now Japanese manufacturers are looking at a long period of uncertainty. The US doesn't have great infrastructure but it is enough to suffice, and there is available housing at the moment.
Businesses in China have no intellectual property protection and they don't know which of their local employees are State spies. Import and export permissions are regularly modified by the State (e.g. petroleum or rare earth elements). With high fuel costs transporting goods from China to the Europe, West Africa, or any but the westernmost territories of North and South America is expensive. One thing I forgot to mention above is that as part of cleaning up regulation and litigation in the US, CORRUPTION would need to be addressed, although in China a few executions get a lot of headlines, the problem there is endemic at not just at the TBTF level. In short, I don't think the US would have to make China look like a joke, they would just have to provide a viable alternative.
The only other alternative is to work towards trade balance by not importing anything - in which case there hasn't been anywhere near enough demand destruction to balance energy needs with production, much less all the junk iPods, flat-screens, and imported cars, etc.
UK: Soaring Costs ‘Forcing Drivers Off Road’ http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Report-Claims-Rising-Motoring-Costs-Force-13-Million-Drivers-Off-The-Road-In-The-Past-12-Months/Article/201107116023955
Some 1.3 million people have been driven off the UK’s roads this year as a result of rising motoring costs, according to new research.
Change the CPI to show less inflation, clothe it as a means to saving money, pave the way for QE3.
I propose a new method of calculating CPI. Index the reporting of inflation directly to the increase or decrease of social security and welfare checks. That way, if your check becomes smaller, the government can claim that inflation is under control because the 'new CPI' reflects a lower cost of living!
Maybe if the government/FED/Treasury didn't create inflation in the first place, there wouldn't be a need to redefine inflation or have a COLA at all. Dumbasses.
The first step in resolving a problem is properly identifying the problem. It appears as if everyone failed at Step 1.
It appears that the level of hatred towards old people who are barely surviving on Social Security (SS) has gone up and the literacy level has gone down. The biggest effect will be to transfer more taxes to the working population to provide subsidies and transfers to the uber rich. Yes, go ahead and support this if you are young and think it will only effect ONLY the old. You will pay more as inflation escalates, or hyper-escalates. “And it would affect the way tax brackets and deductions adjust for inflation, so it could appear less like a tax increase than simply raising tax rates.” http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=187825,00.html http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=214320,00.html A $100 annual increase in SS has very little impact compared to the amount of taxes raised by not adjusting the tax brackets: eg. “the taxable-income threshold separating the 15-percent bracket from the 25-percent bracket is $67,900, up from $65,100 in 2008”. That's $2,800 x 10% x the majority of taxpayers; ie a lot of extra money that the government gets as it prints money and your spending power decreases. This is a way to raise taxes on workers without the “whores of the rich” and the “lapdogs of the rich” admitting that they have increased taxes.
I bet a 89 granny could beat the crap out of Obama!
A calculation I made shows that if anyone has paid into social security their working life from 1973 to 2011, contributing at the maximum contribution rate, and adding the employer share, one would have paid in a total of ... 268,883.
You can figure the return invested if it were in an IRA, just investing the cumulative total at each year at 5%, or compound it at any other rate, and the amount would certainly be more than twice the contribution above.
Now, assume the person above retires at the age of 66 at the end of 2011. The MAXIMUM social security benefit he/she will receive is $2426 a month, or $29,112 based on current projections.
Here are the figures for contribution rate for employer and total including employees share:
YEAR - RATE - MAX BASE - EMPLOYEE - incl EMPLOYER
1973 4.85 10,800 $524 1,048
1974 4.95 13,200 $653 1,307
1975 4.95 14,100 $698 1,396
1976 4.95 15,300 $757 1,515
1977 4.95 16,500 $817 1,634
1978 5.05 17,700 $894 1,788
1979 5.08 22,900 $1,163 2,327
1980 5.08 25,900 $1,316 2,631
1981 5.35 $29,700 $1,589 3,178
1982 5.7 32,400 $1,847 3,694
1983 5.7 35,700 $2,035 4,070
1984 5.7 37,800 $2,155 4,309
1985 5.7 39,600 $2,257 4,514
1986 5.7 42,000 $2,394 4,788
1987 5.7 43,800 $2,497 4,993
1988 6.06 45,000 $2,727 5,454
1989 6.06 48,000 $2,909 5,818
1990 6.2 51,300 $3,181 6,361
1991 6.2 53,400 $3,311 6,622
1992 6.2 55,500 $3,441 6,882
1993 6.2 57,600 $3,571 7,142
1994 6.2 60,600 $3,757 7,514
1995 6.2 61,200 $3,794 7,589
1996 6.2 $62,700 $3,887 7,775
1997 6.2 65,400 $4,055 8,110
1998 6.2 68,400 $4,241 8,482
1999 6.2 72,600 $4,501 9,002
2000 6.2 76,200 $4,724 9,449
2001 6.2 80,400 $4,985 9,970
2002 6.2 84,900 $5,264 10,528
2003 6.2 87,000 $5,394 10,788
2004 6.2 87,900 $5,450 10,900
2005 6.2 90,000 $5,580 11,160
2006 6.2 94,200 $5,840 11,681
2007 6.2 97,500 $6,045 12,090
2008 6.2 102,000 $6,324 12,648
2009 6.2 106,800 $6,622 13,243
2010 6.2 106,800 $6,622 13,243
2011 6.2 106,800 $6,622 13,243
1973-2011 $134,441 $268,883
If the total contributed was invested once a year at 5%, the account would have $591,933 in it.
Assuming a single life, one can purchase an annuity from Mutual of Omaha for $600,000 that would pay $3893 a month in the current interest rate environment.
Of course, if instead of social security, the same contributions would have been made in an IRA, one could tailor withdrawals according to one's needs ... and leave the balance for their children!
Shadowstats.com has been addressing this (amongst others) issue for years. Hey, if we all shrink ourselves a little every year then this calculation would work. The Austrians have a wonderful opera that covers this phenomena. It is called 'Die Fledermaus'.
It is unfortunate that the debate over how CPI is to be calculated is centered around its effects on entitlements and budgets, as opposed to how accurately it measures inflation.
This "chained CPI" for Social Security is one thing, but how will this new CPI way of calculating affect all other budget matters? The way they currently calculate CPI is off, this in politicians hands seems scary.
It was never ever meant to be a retirement plan. Ever. Even when introduced to win an election. Ever. And before you junk me, I'm the demographic that will pay in the most and absolutely not get a dime from it. I've got more of a right to be pissed than grannyX. Her return has been quite impressive actually, mine....not so much.
I've already paid for 40 years and got zip. You can be pissed when you get here, eh?
If you've been paying in for 40 years, you'll clear the bar and get paid. I'm paying in for nothing....actually, I'm paying in for you asshole - so I guess I can be pissed off right here, eh? (Canadians, especially Quebecers, shouldn't post regarding SS, FYI).
Let me just preface this little "vent" with a two word "Title"; FUCK YOU! You SS recipient bashers, Gen Airheads, Lost Gens, and similar ilk, can whine all the fuck you want to! Do you believe anyone that is collecting SS benefits now had a CHOICE of whether or not they contributed over their working lifetime? Use your one celled amoeba brains for once in your worthless life. YOUR fucking government has been robbing the "Fund" probably back to the arrogant crook Nixon. Every politician in DC since then has stolen monies from it for all their Pork Barrell bulshit for decades. For you to lay blame on the elderly in our society that MADE this country, (NOT the Government, AND certainly not YOU), then you need to go back and ask your neuro surgeon for a NEW Baboon Brain transplant. Fucking morons. Read my lips dipshits, "the money was taken out of the working Man's check by the government, INVOLUNTARILY". If you still want to whime and cry about it, CALL YOUR FUCKING FRAUDSTER CONGRESSMAN! WE don't want to hear it, read it, or wipe up your sorry ass tears over it. By the way, GET A FUCKING JOB! Uncle Sambo up there in the White House, and all his little ass kissing minions are going to take the SS contribution tax off also, so you fucks can start paying MORE of your deflated dollar to the fund, and in turn, help pay my "green fees" every week! Hope I didn't offend anyone, if I did, I'm sorry, you must have mistaken me for someone who gives a flying fuck! Have a great decade....
I love it: amoeba brains.
The US Total debt is at $55 Trillion. How much did Social Security contribute to it: zero.
You may want to check the US government's own reporting and breakdown of future unfunded liabilities before making that comment. Hell, the numbers presented could be faked up and the Auditor would not sign off on fiscal 2010 statements involving unfunded liabilities, so there is some question on the published numbers and their legitimacy. However, of a total GAAP based US deficit of some $56 trillion at year-end fiscal 2010, the breakdown I retrieved from the GAAP based reports involve the following totals (in billions):
Cash basis $13,472.8
Unfunded
Social Security $19,735.0
Medicare Part A $7,216.0
Medicare Part B $10,755.0
Medicare Part D $5,210
Railroad $141
Total GAAP based $56,529.8
excludes intergovernmental debt holdings, which could be scrubbed to a certain degree if Ron Paul's idea of internally erasing balances in the government Treasuries held by the Fed gain traction. If these are added in for $4,567.7, we come in over $60 trillion. In any event, Social Security may not have contributed per se to past deficits, but the projections are of this serious nature going forward for the next 3-40 years or so. So let's be careful about what statements are made about Social Security and the debt perspective.
this is going to be a good fight.... gubmint having to answer for mixing solvent programs with
.
BULLSHIT BITCHEZ!
Lots of anti-elderly sentiment. Congrats to the
the owners of America who have turned attention from their theft and plunder to encouraging inter-generational strife. Just part of the war against the middle class which, as Gregg Palast remarked, was won without a shot being fired.
Well said. Tapping into that oedipal anger against the "boomers" works too.
This was the plan from way back, I assume. Thanks, lawrence1
How about halfing every Congressional salary....abolish the 100% Free scholarships for Congresspersons' children...and the list goes on for miles.
Why not tighten everyone's belt?
If they want to do this, they should do it "honestly"... to the extent "honest" can be applied to any:
predators DBA government
predators DBA corporations
predators DBA central banks
They should make the CPI accurate, which it blatantly is NOT now. Then they can create a new acronym called BPI (bullshit price index) and simply substitute the BPI for CPI in programs that raise expenditures based upon CPI now.
The [lack of] "logic" practiced by these predators is breathtaking! They can cause an easy 50% reduction in outlays on those CPI adjusted programs simply by placing deadly poison on 50% of the "wait in line" tickets in those facilities. Once 50% fall over dead, the average consumption drops 50%. These predators are completely evil, and well on the road to mass destruction of mankind.
Let's see: limit medicare to hospice care and let SS realize the actuarial offsets.
Trust the Criminal Money Laundering Syndicate of the AARP to scream.
How about a nice story of the NEA upping dues $10 to support Owebama?
Why can't all people be treated the same and have the same benefits?
In Asian Country's it is expected that the Children support their Parents in Old Age. Most of the Children give 25% of their income to their Parents for their living expenses. The more prosperous the Children the better the life style of the Parents.
In America we have a different system where the People put money away for their old age so that the Children do not have to contribute to the needs of the Parents. Unless of course the Parents are destitute. My Grandmother lived on Social Security and it did not give her a very good life. So, my Father being generous supplemented her income by sending her a check every month to help her out.
Why are people so quick to throw away their elders and want to put them into extreme poverty? What has happened to our value system and respect for the elder family members?
Has greed gone so far that people want to just get rid of their elders? I know in my Family the Elders are respected and treated as mini Gods. As they were the ones we came from and learned from. If it was not for them we would not even be here today. Many of our Elders went thru extreme hardships to make our life better. They did not think about themselves, as they sacrificed to make our life better.
To throw them away because of greed is just wrong.
What do you expect from White people? I wonder what they'll say when corporations start using chained-CPI to adjust their salaries and banks jack up their interest rates by adjusting for real-inflation. What is good for the goose is good also for the gander. But, why worry about it, they won't have a job anyway.
Since YOU have to throw in the "RACE" card here, "what do you expect from White people"? The same fucking thing WE expect from Black people! Honesty, a Mother AND Father in the home, non criminal politicians,(of which NONE exist in any Race), and less people like you that have to make a moronic statement like you just expoused upon. Want to carry the debate further? A lower percentage of Blacks on "generational welfare", a lower percentage of Blacks imprisoned for violent crimes, (which your majority "white taxpayers" pay for), and a Martian in the WHITE HOUSE instead of the ULTRA Liberals "token" to the US history books. Think (if possible) before you speak.......
Don't fly off the handle friend, I am white. But... I have been seeing this same banker mentality in white people since the Internet bubble and most are not bankers, but they all think like bankers: they actually support the system that preys on everybody who shows any weakness. Most white people on this forum talk about buying guns, ammo, gold and hiding out in a some bunker, ready to shoot anyone within thier sights. Simple animal behaviour.
Fuck off linrom - what does color have to do with it?
The US is the only country in the world (that I know of) where elderly imitate youth, e.g., older tourists dressed exactly like the young with shorts, tennis shoes or sandals, stylish backpack, etc., and elderly often referring to themselves, jokingly, as ¨old geezers."
Sure, because it makes so much sense to kill elderly and rob them blind using 'wall street metrics' full of 'pseudo-science', to pay for fraudulent debt, that should not be a part of our 'national debt'.
Or we could Glass-Steagall the fraudulent crap out of existence, and not have to hand out a gun and bullet for every senior. Because the answer is, when someone defrauds you the right course of action is to pawn everything. Welcome to fascist Amerika, where corporations rule, and fucktard dogma clouds even the brightest dumbest minds.
Boy, won't it be great when we get these idiots out of office! You know, anyone we replace them with will be better than they are. They waste all the treasury then rob the paid in money from senior citizens. Anyone over 60 that votes for these bozos must be mentally ill!
Lets hear from a few of you seniors who live in a retirement community for seniors only ..... so you don't have to pay taxes to educate other peoples children. I know its a slim percentage - but it just goes to show not all seniors are senile and genteel. AARP's been their buddy for a reason. I'm just saying the money is gone, stolen from you to buy other shit and I don't have enough to replace the stolen money, so don't ask for it if you don't want to hear the truth. Honesty, the same shit you seniors have refused to hear for decades from your politicians......you just won't have it. How's that working out for ya?
These adjustments to CPI are changing from hedonic to hediondic quality.
AARPived
They thought they where safe from this fiasco, it turned out they where wrong. Eventually after everyone is caught or eaten or ran off, the predator eventually goes after the lone sheep that was promised not to be touched if it gave up it's own heard. In the mind of the predator it didn't care, the lone sheep just made his job easier. And in the end the lone sheep won't care either, because he will be dead.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemöller
Love that one.