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After Brief Sabbatical, Muni Massacre Is Back
Earlier today we presented Bill Gross on Bloomberg TV, in a segment which confirmed that while the PIMCO boss is bearish on Europe, even though literally all the world is now involved in backstopping the PIIGS, he is bullish on bankrupt states and municipalities. Per Bloomberg: "Bill Gross, who manages the world’s biggest bond fund at Pacific Investment Management Co., clashed with Meredith Whitney, the banking analyst, when he said he doubted there would be many local-government bankruptcies. “Ultimately, municipal bankruptcies will be at a lower level,” Gross said today on Bloomberg Television’s “InBusiness” program. “I don’t subscribe to the theory that there will be lots of them.” Alas for PIMCO and its billions in Build America Bond holdings, the Muni market at this point couldn't care less. As the charts below demonstrate, the muni carnage is again back front and center. And it will only get worse with every day that a BAB replacement program is not provided. From there, to a full blown domino effect, the line is very, very thin.
Below is the recent performance BlackRock California Fund (MYC), which just hit a one year low...
And the Nuveen New Jersey fund. In freefall.
h/t Mike Krieger
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CXA on the daily chart is very bullish. These bulls are buying the dip.
-Harrywanger
BTW California has roughly the GDP of Spain + Portugal
Just as it is necessary for banks to fail in order to purge the malinvestments and the bad players, so too will it be necessary for states who have not managed their finances well to default on their obligations. These failed states will incentivize other states to get their houses in order.
There will not be an effective bailout of states or banks. To interfere with the process is to make it worse. Each day that Ben Bernanke pretends that there is deflation [his word for the bad assets that are deteriorating in value on bank balance sheets] he makes it harder for good banks to do the right thing, which is to mark down the bad loans. Pension funds/states also need to accept losses within investment portfolios.
So let us all look on with intense curiousity as the Federal Reserve bank continues to treat the primary dealers as if they were favorite sons. Just after the bell today, the big banks were lining up to sell the Fed's stake in AIG...a job that will also net millions of tax payer dollars for crooked, inside bank players. And then let us contemplate how the Federal Reserve could ever print enough money to cover muni losses, as well. It goes on and on...until it doesn't anymore.
Everything I have said here simply falls within what is known by Average Joe as common sense. What I have said here is lost only on Ben Bernanke and the leadership of about 19 banks. As for DC...it must be the case that they simply do not understand any of this...or the FBI would be having a field day rounding up criminal syndicate Wall Street bankers.
Additional:
Or you could just go with Cramer's opinion and buy criminal syndicate Wall Street banks because the yield curve [completely distorted by the actions of the Federal Reserve Bank] looks good. Never mind about systemic fraud.
Equity markets are the movie being shown ON the curtain to divert everyones attention from the collapse, carnage, and mayhem going on BEHIND the curtain.,
OR you could buy munis knowing that the Fed has your back.
OR you could simply close your wallet and let the revolution of defunding all of this nonsense commence, crooked banks, broken municipalities, bankrupt states...not to mention foreign countries using broken currencies...and on and on. Enough already.
Indeed, the blowup in municipal bounds is a serious tell, Dog.
If the financial terrorists at the FED finally do see people dumping their bonds and pouring into equities, the ensuing carnage will be epic! Theyre gonna have to pull the rug out from someone, and frankly the equity top buyers would deserve it I wouldnt feel sad for them at all!
CXA targeting 19% higher:
http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/gallery.html?s=cxa
"California has roughly the GDP of Spain + Portugal."
But you can torrent california into arkansas. Turning it into a wine and olive oil and cheese fight which everyboy is about equal in.
Look Those Credit Default Swap for California,Illinois, New Jersey....
Too much optimism in US economy, Turning point coming
I will update tomorrow, im outta office
http://www.financialchat.com/sites/default/files/DEBTMUNICIPALS.jpg
P.S: Im not Meredith:)
* The basic idea, is ...how the hell equities up with Muni CDS up during December? ....Bearish divergence....Good for metals bad for equities and specially for Insurance
Bill just doesn't want any trade here to get too crowded until he has something to sell.
Bernanke says "bailouts for banks, banksters, bondsmen, boroughs...and that included Blankfeins and BillGross....bitches!"
if most of the world is 1> buying in to this stuff, and 2> keep on doing it, then why not just watch it on c-spam?
Bill Gross is bullish on bankrupt states and cities. Wow, where have we seen this game before? Hello FED backstop.
Yeah, I don't see much panic, even in states like Nevada and Illinois where the deficits are impossible to cure. We're in a Twighlight Zone episode, no federal budget, no Presidential leadership, bread and circuses for the little people, and central bankers around the world playing tag-team bailout. I think we're all about to get what Huey Long called "good governent", sans Vaseline.
I will say one that for Huey though. At least he admitted it and you knew what you were getting when you elected him. It seems many in Louisianna were content with him too.
How do they intend on maintaining the security apparatus when they can no longer pay their lackeys with conjured up debt originated fiat dollars? What's the end game here?
Blackrock vets. They have honed their skills in Iraq and Afghanistan. They shouldn't have any problem with Westchester and The Hamptons.
Look up "Boat People 1976", "Rwanda 1994", or "Bosnia 1997".
Illinois came up with a innovative idea, raise taxes. How simple ,yet profound.
I'm all for a good muni bashing, but MUB was down just over 0.5%. So was TLT. So yes, muni's were down, but spreads were stable. MCDX finished 10 tigher on the day. BAB was actually unch'd. Most of the closed end funds use leverage, and tend to own the weaker end of the muni credit spectrum so they should do worse than MUB. I'm hoping for muni's to crater, but today was not credit concern related in my opinion.
Most of the closed end funds use leverage, and tend to own the weaker end of the muni credit spectrum so they should do worse than MUB
NQJ portfolio mostly investment grade El Capitan... (Of course, one must ask oneself: what exactly is that in muni land these days? LOL)
the rating agencies suck....as a general rule, the closed end funds own smaller, less liquid, and usually less solid bonds than the average of the muni market. Extra yield is all the managers go for. another recent in any liquidity crisis they get hammered
Yes but his other point about leverage is the bigger price mover and God help those funds if
short money (Libor) has a shock again.
thay won't pay divs.(Interest) if the have to service higher floating rate on corresponding preferreds.
I agree w/ his/your comments on the leverage. The only real point of my comment was to question just what criteria makes "investment grade" for a muni these days? If we are about to see the very same action hit muni land that hit RMBS/CMBS, one would imagine that there will be all sorts ugly issues to impair cash flows/assets that back up the bonds they were sold against. Also, should be interesting to see what other specialty financing vehicles get hit due to the storm. (outside of the widely seen open/closed end fund structures)
And good ol' Jamie of JP Morgue says, "If you are an investor in municipals you should be very, very careful." This C-word (carnival?) should know, he set the damn timer on the bomb.
I wonder if this Crash JP Morgan Buy Silver campaign will do anything to these thieves?
A lot of people are going to owe M. Whitney an apology........ again. I guess Jamie doesn't want to be one of them.
The real question is at what point do the states go begging to the federal government for a bailout and what sovereign rights/freedoms are the states willing to give up. I mean honestly what does California have to offer in return that they haven’t already given up?
Well the FED is buying stocks, bonds , and treasuries. Why wouldn't they buy muni's ? They are creating money out of thin air and charging us interest for it. It continues day in and day out and nobody except around here, and some other blogs, say a damn thing about it. I watched a documentary on Haiti ,after the earthquake and time and time again, the Haitians say that the country does not work, because of too much corruption. It immediately reminded me of this country. Our government is corrupt, our agencies are corrupt. The whole damn thing stinks.
"the Haitians say that the country does not work, because of too much corruption."
How does the US manage to stay afloat and get things done? Corruption made the US to this day and it still works. How?
The answer is simple. Corruption was less obvious, manipulation was completely hidden. New media age and high tech make it possible to see behind the curtain of the Fed, the UST and the major banks. The wizard is exposed. Bailout of TBTF was the nail in the coffin to any semblance of credibility this group ever had.
Not only Americans are getting to know and understand the machinations of this corrupt group, the whole world understands that America really has got nothing to offer. The currency played a major role in the past and was accepted as a save haven, but that is no longer the case as the currency gets diluted more each day. Yes, the military might is still a factor but if the country cannot pay their military or can only pay the military with diluted currency, that military will be effected by the same dilution.
America, you had your cake and you ate it too.
Debt, debt service is an allegory to parastism. After awhile the host is eaten and it is time to migrate. The Earth is eaten and it is time to reset the host.
NSSM 200.
Also , it must be stated. The reason why so many sheep are watching now and are reading and understanding it all, or at least trying to, is because of the internet and the blogs. For most of the life of this country, the electronic wild west frontier was not around and news traveled much slower. Now the poor man's Library of Congress is just a click away.
On Friday, Bernanke made it very clear that he wouldn't bail out the states. You should expect Bernanke to hide behind the Frank-Dodd bill from last summer that prevents the Fed from bailing out insolvent borrowers.
Thank God that Donk bill was passed after Wall Street was - conveniently - in the clear....for now, anyway. Yet another example of how the reckless gambling habits of the Wall Street players are saved, yet those directly tethered to state budgets will be gutted. Too bad those states don't have Paulson on speed dial.
Why wouldn't they buy muni's....?
I believe the Fed can only buy muni debt that matures in less than 6 or 12 months, which is such a small slice of the market that it is irrelevant.
One other thing, take a look at a five year chart of the MYC.
Yeh Red Neck but its like you always say. The FED will do whatever it takes and besides they can do whatever they want, because the Congress of the United States is bought and sold , as are all of the regulating agencies. I for one , hope you are right on this. Maybe you are, but I can tell you one thing. Bill Gross would not be getting hip deep in muni's if he thought it was going to be garbage paper. Let us go back to the MBS fiasco, not long ago, when his Pimco fund, off loaded their garbage MBS paper to the FED. After this happened, a blind man could see why Pimco was not worrying so much about MBS's.
[I can tell you one thing. Bill Gross would not be getting hip deep in muni's if he thought it was going to be garbage paper. Let us go back to the MBS fiasco, not long ago, when his Pimco fund, off loaded their garbage MBS paper to the FED. After this happened, a blind man could see why Pimco was not worrying so much about MBS's.]---High Plains Drifter
Agreed.
The only thing Gross needs to worry about is the day when the Fed---in an act of self-preservation---misleads him.
And the housing mess plays right into this again. Those that were smart have kept themselves free of the massive obligations of a giant mortgage. The people that are stuck in house that are not quite underwater are the most at risk of getting the worst of all worlds. Just imagine having a house in Arlington Heights or another higher-end Chicago suburb. You might have equity but you can't sell it. And now as Illinois raises their income tax you are completely stuck.
The pincer movement of union dominated municipal government and the housing market will encircle many little Stalingrads. Many "owners" will have no choice but stay and fight. Not me. New battles call for new tactics. Flexibility and freedom of movement are needed for the battles ahead. Good luck to all of those that uttered the words, "I don't want to throw money away on rent". You have another brutal lesson heading your way. Your local politicians are about to blitzkrieg your asses.
If you can't sell it you don't have as much equity as you thought you had.
That's right. Plus the REIC will take 6% of your "equity" during the sales process. Rock meet hard place.
Cousin?
Plus the REIC will take 6%
its about 1-2% max in the uk .........Daylight robbery
Some states will do it the old fashioned way by further squeezing the already overloaded taxpayers, like Illinois that just boosted the state income tax 66%. This shit is getting uglier.
This is bullish as everyone is pulling money from all bond funds and buying equities.
So if there is any kind of bailout announcement then money would leave equities and head to bonds. That should be bullish.
Plus oil at $92 is definitely bullish.
apparently, you haven't read the playbook or drunk the kool aid. everything is bullish for equities. strong USD, bullish. rising rates, bullish. falling rates, bullish. bernanke catching the clap from Lloyd, bullish. etc....
Oil at $92 is bullish because XOM and CVX are Dow stocks.
Oil at $92 for a substantial period of time is lethal to the US of A. Period.
whenever the 1st state steps up to the plate, then everyone will be fighting to be 2nd......but no one wants to be 1st.....so the lick the can of lies continues
After hours flash crash? Granted, not a big stock, but still odd:
http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/MCZ
Someone just earned themselves a hefty payday.
Disgusting is what this is. Neither know the co. nor own their stock but this happens when someone cashes in a large block of stock. Could be a financing firm, an executive (watch for filings after) or a disgruntled major investor executing his very own "exit" strategy.
RE are now the ball and chain to the Municipal nightmare. I saw that a coming via the Outrageous property Taxes and SOLD. Wasn't going down with the Municipal Ship..sorry.
Obama is toast with his rapidly declining base if he doesn't, in some way, bail out the poster children for his Progressive Entitlement Agenda. California and Illinois are the prime examples, with Maryland and Michigan also in the mix. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans do not want to enable, any longer, the profligacy of 10s of thousands of public service pensions and included HC costing over $3 million in total, nor do they appreciate illegals getting a free pass in benefits and deportation in sanctuary areas.
So will it be an Executive Order or a back door bailout by the FED? Stay tuned.
If you don't mind Tyler? Can I get a cloud on these charts. The forex world is loving this one! Thanks
I live in Detroit... That is not a threat but what can you possibley say...reallly!!
Detroit is ground zero in the new American world that is coming soon.
lived in southeast Michigan from 1995 to 1998; am stunned by its utter collapse. My first job was at One Woodward Avenue back in 1979, things were very bad then; the real estate bubble and the constant outsourcing is the only thing that kept Detroit going for 30 years.
Detroit is now a ward of the State, and by State I do not mean the State of Michigan. It will be the ward of a fuedal(Corporate) entity charged with reordering Detroit's remaining human resource (ie slave/prison labor) for the good of the Fatherland.
More money fleeing out of fixed income and into stocks.
No wonder these stocks are breaking out on such huge volume.
Deep cyclicals like Eastman Chemical still flying.
No sign of the market topping yet.
Has someone yelled "FIRE" in the bond theatre yet?
Uhmm, hate to point this out to you, but somebody had to sell that stock in order for somebody to buy it...you meant to say, somebody just unloaded stocks at lofty levels to an idiot willing to pay more for it, hoping to sell it some time in the future for even more money....or some such thing...
That's how it's done. It's a sucker's game. Always has been. What they're having trouble with now unlike any other time before is finding new suckers. The average American that loved "playing" the stock market has either run out of money or has lost it during the crash. Both of which were caused by the same group that is now trying to rig the game higher again.
44 million on food stamps are NOT going to come back. Baby boomers that need cash flow will NOT put money into stocks. HFT churning stocks higher does NOT mean that the profits are real or sustainable.
in your parallel universe there never will be a top until AFTER the fact
Then he'll tell everyone he called it and sold the day before.
Zero hedge is kind of like a jungle gym for the financieal adults... it is (R) rated...but none the less.
who gets to push Marla's swing?
OMG I hope they do sell all their bonds and buy the ridiculous equity top...its the only thing The Bernank is waiting for before he pulls the rug out!
So whats the loe down?
It's all good - Illinois raised its tax rate in a secret meeting. They're getting the message, no muni and state will fail till they've extracted every last dollar from the 58% of the folks that work....Then, and only then, will the SHIT HIT THE FAN, as Harry Wanger says so often
Quinn: Talks with lenders led to bigger tax hike than promised
It's all good, now. More money to spend! Woohoo!
Both STD and BBVA up 10%+ today.
Looks like the PIIGS crisis is on hold for now.
Muni bond holders are going to continue to liquidate to try and catch these cheapies off the lows.
Today was just the first day.
Halflife of 'all is well' is now just measured in minutes, hours at the most. Good luck holding overnites, one of these mornings you'll certainly get your head lopped off by the FED slingblade.
You're an STD
@robo
I can't believe you missed pointing out the move in Zales today. They really should consider licensing that retired sock puppet trademark for their new ad campaign.
1999 => 2000.25
Equities, Munis, MBS, Banks. Somebody's gonna be wrong and someboy's gonna be splat on a highway.
Somehow I'm pretty sure I know who the fool is...I don't seem to have a printing press; don't seem to have "sources" that tell me what to do and when". All I've got is logic and that is fucking useless in this insane asylum (and yes, it has occured to me that when you think everybody else is crazy it might just be me...in fact I think that is the biggest plan of all, the mis-eduction and mis-reporting and mis-governance. All to make someone who thinks he's capable of math think it must be that he doesn't understand "real" math...there must be an alternative math that I just don't get???).
Even if congress grew a conscience and tried to clean up the house, little Timmy G will have another tantrum and threaten to hold his breath until America passes out.
Meredity Whitney is hot (not just) because she called Citibank's demise (and took a lot of grief), but is showing these clowns that they truly are clowns.
Good-looking, well-upholstered, brainz AND money -- what's not to like?!
Too bad I'm already spoken for, sorry Meredith. :(
So R/T , Does that explain 10y yield drops and equity market over bought IDEAS? Is it the BoJ and Mof buying? To soften the blow. Is it PBoC running in to save the over bought T-Market? I'm all ears? I don't take sides. I make things work. Get long in a 1H time frame USD/JPY. Cheers (Chart) ichimoku. Thanks all
I welcolm yer junking...Fuck ass'es
I have been rude and I should be polite...sorry!!
Long live Zero Hedge!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejDYhkk1VQQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1KFb9w9azA
So does this mean i shouldnt get too excited about the outstanding snow plow job here in NY?
No that's a great job. You get to wreck shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LVypA4YzyQ
in CA new governor Brown is going to pull the plug on redevelopment money. The next thing he is going to do is put the tax onus back on the local government to collect revenue. Local govs have been taking free (redevelopment) money, and cutting back on services rather than raising taxes. My city just shut down one of the four ambulances. Brown is against the infamous Prop13, but realizes he can't do much about it, other than leading the locals to raise property "fees", and saying that he will not increase taxes, unless the voters approve it, which is code for local initiatives, sales tax hikes and so on.
IN SD the city council voted to allow restaurants to accept food stamps. the public is against it, but apparently the corporate fast food lobby isn't, and who loves ya baby. Jack does.
You failed to mention important details regarding food stamp usage in restaurants. It only applies to those that can't prepare a hot meal at home.
Supervisors directed county officials to return within three months with a program that allows seniors, disabled and homeless people to use CalFresh benefits, formerly known as food stamps, in exchange for hot or prepared meals.
the public (who are they?) are outraged, but the council, out of empathy for the homeless, who don't have enough places to get a meal? decide we should subsidize jack in the box? (a locally based franchise) i have blogged long and hard that san diego is Americas most rotten city, if you want chapter and verse.
by the way the trial of the AZ shooter is going to be moved to SD where a BUSH appointed judge will preside.
Local govs have been taking free (redevelopment) money, and cutting back on services rather than raising taxes.
Local government can't legally "take" redevelopment money. There are laws governing how that money can be used.
A little history: last year the State raided redevelpment agencies, taking about $2.1 bln. Last November, CA voters passed prop 22 making such takings unconstitutional. So now they put forth a budget calling for the "disestablishment" of redev agencies. Short story: no way Brown can go to the dem congress with a budget cutting education and social services without attacking and looting redevelopment in some way. After prop22 this is the only way. Likely it is a shakedown and redevelopment agencies will have to "give" money to the state to get them to back off. If they do "disestablish" the agencies, they can't abrogate existing contractual commitments (especially outstanding bonds) or get thier grubbies on the revenues pledge to those obligations. Some successor agency would have to be created to administer/assume those obligations, though the successor might be the Cities if no new entity is created. There would no doubt be an ocean of lawsuits regarding any contractual obigations that were not honored by the successor agency.
Now the race will be on to issue as much debt and enter into as many additional contractual obligations as possible before the legislature takes action to prohibit that. Taking something as large and complex as redevelopment across the entire state and disestablish it in within 6 months is nuts and would create some serious. It's shakedown in my opinion, opening the negotiations with a big bang on the table.
you may think you see how it works, i see how it works. just a few weeks ago the SD Chargers Marc Fabiani was glowing over the NEW money available, {if only the voters would approve it} to build a downtown stadium complex for the Chargers.
My city is cutting vital services AND buying property to create corporate franchises. it's absolutely insane. however cutting the redevelopment money at least stops the flow of corporate welfare, [is that good or bad?]
and last night the SD CC member was crying a lot of alligator tears at the governors plan, but he is probusiness repub. so yeah naturally.SD residents are one of the LEAST taxed cities in the country. of course i don't know anything but what I see. i see money flowing uniterrupted from somewhere into cities redevelopment agencies, while the same cities can't meet basic obligations to public safety.
dont know the answer, just know the problem
Munis targeting at least 10 points lower:
http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/gallery.html?s=mub
Again, The muni market will not be the catalyst for anything. Also, I think many credits will be the last man standing when the SHTF. As far as GO bonds go anyway, the first line item on states, cities, counties, etc. budgets is P&I - before anything else, including salaries, pensions, vendors, etc. All this noise is just creating buying opportunities for anybody paying attention. The fact that IL bumped up it's tax rate the way it did helps prove my point: Full Fath and Credit.
Poor Billy may soon be the goat
And swiftly withdraw to his moat
He'll have Ben to thank
When his bonds finally tank
It's hard to keep T-turds afloat.
http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=58
We are in trouble deep!!!
I like the saying "What happens to you happens to me" If it takes god to sort it out... so be it!!
Man I love you guys and gals. Munis! What a can of worms that is. Greece and spreads. Not beautifull late night ones. B/c on notes was good today. I suspect yields on the 10 year will rise into riskoff Friday. This week has kept 15bp move in check. Today we saw demand for debt and equity. The triad will break down. We also my friends, (see a DXY chart that is based on the revaluation of YUAN (open market trading) and EURO (peter to pay paul schemes) told. Don't ask me to call it the R: word! Krona movement from CHF. And Japan avoiding printing YEN, and purchasing debt. SMART!!! Trade well into risk off Friday if the spx misses the 1280-.5 range. You all kick butt. Love this site!
Didn't know they give you Free charting with a Paper trade account?
Meredith is waffling a bit.. saying she doesn't expect States to default but only Municipal defaults. This seems to contradict the bill put forth by Gingrich allowing States to default
and file for bankruptcy? Imagine knowing what she knows the condition they are in and what lies in store. 2 Yrs and Thousands of hours of research.
Newt Gingrich Pushing Bill To Allow States To File Bankruptcy Allowing Them To Renege On Pension And Benefit ObligationsHemlock is nowhere near as tasty as Koolaid!
Even a new BAB program won't help if the Asians ever figure out they are still buying municipal risk. It may be only a matter of time until some Asian guy managing $1 trillion dollars Googles's "BAB" by mistake and hires some German guy to explain it to him...
I encountered the Sr. Risk Manager for a major german bank some time back. He was on a tour of various issuers in CA to assess portfolio risk. He told me: "if it was AAA we bought it." So then with the failure of the bond insurers: MBIA, Ambac, FGIC almost all the AAAs became ??? No doubt Germans are capable of assessing risk --- once they decide to pay attention, that is.
Yeah. I paused on German as the example of a functioning brain. Israeli would probably be better but that gets the ZH wacko contingent all excited and that didn't seem worth it. Maybe a person would be better. Prem Watsa loves a compliment...
R/T: Thanks for your infrequent but nicely-timed graphs; while some of today's leaders were debt-related cheapies moving off the lows, such as STD/BBVA, today's other feature has to be commodity-based high-level breakaways such as your EMN heading toward 100 off of it's 6 month low of 50, along with similar breakaways in $CRX, XOI, chemical, mineral and AG segments.
Just my WAG, but Meredith's single-handed revelation of upcoming defaults on un-payable muni/state debt may have world-wide profit implications for national and corporate entities freed from debt and re-organized to tax and sell into an inflated world price structure provided by the QE team and their foreign cousins.
EWI and EWP up 5 and 7%? How the financials escape any such jubilee and join in a possible profit-parade is beyond me.
Thanks for your posts on what I see as the bleeding edge of what could be a very surprising next phase of the 2 year old credit-collapse.
Let me know when the dip is done
My heart goes out to the elderly who trusted these states and may have missed the equity crash but not this
What gives with this BAB line? You have to pay taxes on any dividends they hand out. If you simply buy municipals their dividends are tax free. The net after tax result is the same surely?
Since the question is when there'll be QE3, the answer is when to BTFD.
I'd wait a little before going all-in, moreover, since a big alpha on Muni bonds is not just yet in the cards ;)
He needs to keep the Muni's up and going, because most of his book is in the Municipal bonds of some sort. And if not they go to him to help bundle up bonds to sell or buy. I've done a little research on Bill Gross and PIMCO funds and no wonder he makes money, he's in the thick of CDS's munis and insurance of bonds (also derivatives). I have a strange feeling that one day Bill Gross is going to get caught flat footed and it's going to bring down his whole house of cards.