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Alan Greenspan: "The Financial System Is Broke"
For the definitive confirmation that the Fed is and has always been very open to, at least philosophically, pushing the market higher no matter what the cost (if not in practice - they would never do that, oh no, Liberty 33 would never stoop so low), is this quote from former Fed chairman Alan Greenspan who was on Meet The Press earlier, where he said the following stunner: "if the stock market continues higher it will do more to stimulate the economy than any other measure we have discussed here." In other words, the Fed's dual mandate of maximizing employment and promoting a stable inflation rate have been brushed aside, and the one and only prerogative for Chairman Ben currently, and for the short and long-term future, is to keep the Dow Jones (because nobody in the administration, even the Fed, has heard about the S&P yet), above 10,000. Yet Greenspan, who now apparently is off the reservation concludes with this stunner: "There is no doubt that the federal funds rate can be fixed at what the Fed wants it to be but which the government has no control over is long-term interest rates and long-term interest rates are what make the economy move. And if this budget problem eventually merges to the point where it begins to become very toxic, it will be reflected in rising long-term interest rates, rising mortgage rates, lower housing. At the moment there is no sign of that because the financial system is broke and you can not have inflation if the financial system is not working." In other words, we will be in deflation until the broke financial system becomes unbroke... and then we will have hyperinflation.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, Q.E.D.
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"Good Heavens Ms. Yamamoto, you are beautiful!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V83JR2IoI8k
I think he is getting senile.
Sorry...
He might have "blinded" but it wasn't by science.
Can you believe this guy has balls to go on TV still?
He may just be trying to bring money back to the stock market where it can be fleeced.
You are correct sir, but she is still Japanese!
Also by Thomas Dolby: Airhead
My first thought as well before posting reply to this article . And it is not uncommon for negative personal traits to be magnified with senility , or dementia . I think Greenspan suffers from the later , and his once , much more subdued ( hidden) sociopathic tendencies are in full bloom . And so that of his progeny, the eldest son Bernanke , fell right under the tree .
That is such a negative comment! I think you are not getting enough.
And your 'frustration' is being 'magnified', as shown here.
Make some good trades, and buy that bottle of viagra! Geezus!
Wow. You've junked 33 times. Got to be a record.
Make that 34.....no, 35
Benjamin Shalom Bernanke.
I can't believe America can't see what's going on.
+100
I think Americans feel like there is nothing they can do about it. But it appears that the bloggers are starting to warrant some attention. Maybe this is why the Obamination administration wants the power to regulate and shut down the internet when it sees fit...it's funny my library didn't have a copy of Orwell's 1984, when I told the librarian, she was flabbergasted, because our library system is so vast. We got a fresh stock of 'em after much complaining:) One little triumph at a time!
Healthy man craves... just like health economy that always shoots up.
Our system is broken temporarily, but will be fixed; and viagra will be applied as needed. Our economy will point upwards for many many years!
Broken temporarily?! Since 2008? Buddy, I want what you're smoking.
or drinking
Try since 2001. They just pumped, dumped, pretended and extended a lot longer than before people tried to wake up and cover up for the waste of such gems as Netscape, Pets.com, and other .bombs which destroyed the retirements of many a fool.
Hey! I take issue w/you lumping in Netscape with Pets.com. Netscape was a superior browser that was crushed by a monopoly. Firefox is the direct descendent of Netscape and it is a superior browser over IE.
While Netscape was a better browser early on, they were crushed by their own incompetence, not Microsoft. Their management in particular, but also their technical people weren't that great. I personally know a number who worked there. If ever you run into someone with Netscape management on their Resume, run far and fast. They are the definitiion of how not to manage software.
Yes, 2008 they couldn't contain the beast any longer. LTCM was the foreshadowing. This is what Greensperm and Robber Rubin wanted Brooksley Born to shut her mouth about. These two cretins should hang from the closest lamp posts next to the Cabal of Private Family Banksters... I mean the Fed. See PBS Frontline "The Warning".
Broken since 1982 - thats when the 401k programs started. Look at what the Dow has done since 1982 on a linear scale.
Greenspan is like a weak shot of morphine the PTB put out there to help put out the fire. In fact , he admitted shortly after his retirement that his obtuse proclamations were more like the Wizard of Oz mumbo-jumbo that FDR get real, we'll help. STFU, and I don't want ant of what he's smoking.
Superbull-lonely:
You should consider, meditate upon, and bake some cupcakes, while contemplating: Peak Credit, the Kondratiev Cycle, and the credit/debt based fiat monetary system that required ever increasing levels of credit/debt to keep the bubble from imploding upon itself.
Since there are likely new concepts to you, before responding, please review:
Peak Credit:
http://www.shadowstats.com/charts/monetary-base-money-supply
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/06/peak-credit.html
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JD03Dj04.html
Kondratiev Cycle
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article19928.html
http://kondratieffwinter.com/blog/taboo/fiat-currency/
If this reading is too tough for both of your remaining synaptic nueral connections, maybe an animated education about the nature of money as debt will help:
Money as Debt:
http://www.shadowstats.com/charts/monetary-base-money-supply (yes I put this link in again, VERY important)
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=6950C655104CC42B
Repost from Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:55
#498339
Hungry people are not patient people. Homeless people maybe; but not hungry ones.
People are starting to get hungry folks. This is really happening. The cognitive dissonance created by government's PR machines and market manipulations are stirring anger as a natural response. People will not accept that global wage arbitrage has reduced their price in the open market.
The US standard of living is going to drop by about 1T maybe 2T tops. The real political question for the elites is who to cut off. Their will be winners and losers. Question is who decides? government or the market?
Is US society capable of these political decisions without bloodshed?
The soft Japanese landing won't work in the US. Gun ownership is higher here. Totally different cultures. Lots of business research to justify this reality. So let's not blindly assume that what's happening in Japan will happen in the US. I call BS on this.
I think the US economy will fragment and morf into an economy with pockets of supply chain breakdown inflation; extreme wealth concentrations, and deflation everywhere else.
Ask yourself if government can really pull it off!!!? I call BS on this. The only way to do it without civil war is to let the market decide who wins and who loses and to contain the collateral damage. I've always wanted to use that in a market sense.
"Hungry people are not patient people." There have been a lot of movies about the French Revolution on television, as of late--and hopefully people will start getting ideas about how to deal with the treasonous corruption afoot in this country. I'm envisioning a re-sharpened guillotine next to the Statue of Liberty.
Hyperinflation before deflation; I agree, sadly. They have to pump it up, at least one more time.
CBO and OMB budgets are the only thing to follow, longer-term.
Blaise
As I grow older (oh, so much older), I find I have less and less tolerance for your brand of arrogance.
The truth is, it is people like you with your manner that is taking humanity into the belly of the beast.
I would like to meet you just to see if in fact you really are as you portray yourself.
SuperBull!!!! You're back man, glad to see you. You should know before you get trashed that ZeroHedge is a haven for Bearish Reality Buffs who don't take kindly to Kool-Aid drinking perma-bulls. I on the other hand like you and find your cock-eyed optimism quaint.
It sounds to me like you've read too many Warren Buffet books and believe in his "be gready when other are fearfull". But you should know a few things in this regard.
1) I am not fearfull rather I am greedy for the Great Clensing that is about to occur. I get up every morning giddy with excitment that this will be the day our false economy is flushed down the toilet. Why? Because I am a patriot and realize our country has been taken over by greedy Wall Street bankers who don't know the meaning of enough.
2) Statistics are rapidly catching up with Warren Buffet. Reversion to the mean lurks like an angel of darkness who lusts to pull his average return back to the norm. On a long enough timeline every money managers return will revert to the mean, and in the case of equities that's around %10. So Buffet has a lot of reality hunting him down these days and I'm glad I'm not in its way.
3) Gold has been the red headed step child of the investment world for a long long time. But that asset too must revert to the mean and that means it has to make up for a lot of neglect over the past 30 years. I'm glad I'm on the Gold bus. So if you're looking for the next killer investment you can stop looking (and don't worry I won't tell Warren Buffet).
Price of 1 oz. gold on Sep. 10th 2001 (the day before the attack of Osama bin Subcontractor) $271.50 - currently $1,184.00 up 336%.
S&P 500 on Sep. 10th 2001 (the day before the attack of Osama bin Subcontractor) 1,092.54 - currently 1,103 up 1%.
This does not take into account dividends one would have gotten from owning stocks but I doubt it would make much difference.
Prices of cupcakes not available.
You'll need some Koolaid to wash down those cupcakes.
Superbull take another bong hit, then check out these charts:
http://www.consumerindexes.com/index.html
he isnt getting senile, he is getting honest. We must be close to the end.
Since the FED is ramping the market to stimulate the economy (it's hard to even write this with a straight face) the share market will be the last thing to fall.
thus the sharemarket has given up its 400 year old role as a leading economic indicator and thanks to the FED has now become a lagging indicator and will be the last thing to fall.
Lagging indicator bitchez! Perfectly normal, everyday stuff in bizzaroworld!
"he isnt getting senile, he is getting honest. We must be close to the end."
Reminds me of one of the early 20th century's socialist philosophes H.G. Wells who wrote a little treatise on his death bed entitled 'Mind at the End of its Tether' where he had the chilling realization that everything he had ever thought or done was wrong....
So that means the dali llama himself musta told him, "goonga la goon gala, no goonga lagoon gala"
Cinderella story....
So he's got that going for him.
big hitter, the Lama.
"At the moment there is no sign of that because the financial system is broke and you can not have inflation if the financial system is not working."
Hmm, isn't the case for inflation, through devaluation, exactly because there is a broke financial system?
Yes, you are correct.
Greenspan is talking about demand pull inflation, not currency inflation.
When the real economy is broke and not capable of servicing the debt through taxation, the debt and the dollar will be sold and the value will plummet. (INFLATION)
Either that or Mongolia and Afghanistan's economies must be booming because they have 20%+ inflation.
i would think you must live in afg or mongolia. if you lived in america you could easily see for yourself that prices are much lower now that there is little access to credit which bouys prices. Fuck, look on Craigslist. Matter of fact, look under gold and silver coins. Lot of ads i've been seeing lately have been guys liquidating silver and gold to pay off debts, in fact I had some to liquidate myself here about a a month ago. It used to take less than a day to sell whatever I put up, it took days before I even got a call last time. People don't have cash for these items, they need FRN's to settle debts and the vast majority of people are in debt to their eyeballs. The phenomenon is that people will sell big ticket items off for whatever they can get in the hopes of at least keeping a roof over their head, etc. I have been going to tool auctions and buying things up for pennies on the dollar in many instances, and it's going to get much worse once the government lifelines are throw to the wayside, I would think. People need cash to settle debts, if you have cash then you are in a great position to supply that demand at firesale prices. It was the hyperextension of credit as money which drove prices higher in the last ten years, NOT the printing of mass paper currency of money. This is where you have become blind. The two are seperate and the printing of paper currency at this stage will do nothing as it will be hoarded just like the rest of paper currency currently is. People who think they have dollars in the banks are going to be sorry to realize too late that those dollars are simply loans to the banks, NOT there for safekeeping. The FDIC could never cover more than a minute percentage of bank deposits.
Well, Gov Spitzer there thinks Japan has inflation even
though there rates have been at near 0 for over 20
years. It's called collapse.
Japan did a "Bernanke" with its own money that was earned through real production.
You mean selling gambling chits in High Frequency between Financial Institutions too big to fail isn't production...then I don't know what is! Sarcasm off
Bonddude thinks japan had a great depression style deflationary collapse. But he won't address that prices in Japan don't fall.
In Japan, prices don't fall....but sales do, and deflation rages with asset price face-saving by the Japanese TBTFs (or TBTAdmit it)...Financial Hubris to bring on the Tragegy which is Greece.
Heh. Prices just don't fall, eh? I take it you've never looked at Japanese Real Estate.
Prices don't fall in Japan? You say this because of your close observation of Japanese prices over the past 20 years? Or of Japanese government statistics? Stats look at MSRP. People pay less. In 1990, discounts were negligible. In 2010, discounts are huge, and that is AFTER the government has done its best to rejigger the measured component list to keep inflation looking as positive as possible.
It is interesting that Marc Faber said in a talk about a month ago (that can be found on King World News) "During my recent trip to Tokyo my cab ride from the airport to downtown hotel cost $250 and my very modest hotel room was $600 per night. Anecdotal info certainly, but interesting nevertheless.
Deflation in real estate and some other asset classes and inflation in the services sector? Since we are all living in an economic experiment who is to say what is possible and when sudden changes might occur.
In Weimar Germany prices remained fairly stable for two years while massive money printing was ongoing...then switched from stability to hyper inflation in one month.
There may be some amount of price deflation, but it is only in shit you don't need. We are less than 5% off the all time highs in gold, which is hardly what I would call deflation.
But think what you want.
We are less than 5% off the nominal all time highs in gold.
Go shop for food. Thats where i see a steady upward pricing. Makes me feel good all over since i am eating my homegrown veggies.
Lol, you're either late or early to the party and you're married to your position so you guys get on here and whore your investments. You run in packs around here like a bunch of prison punks headed for the showers.
It's not about thinking what i want, it's about taking an objective look around. So gold went thru the roof in real terms apparently because it's the only asset class higher than it was in 2008. Big whoop. Perfect time to sell and buy it back for cheap. Traders trade and insecure people get married because they're insecure. Life.
Edit: merehuman. Prices on thing I consume myself are still well below the highs of 2008. Milk, cereals, eggs, coffee, stuff me n the wife buy at the farmers markets is roughly the same. Eat the fish I catch so gas is the only cost there(cheaper)
Would you buy the debt and stock of a company at all time highs when the company has a failing business model ?
US debt is at all time highs (interest rates are at all time lows) no different then if a blue chip companies stock is at all time highs, (the dividend yield is also at all time lows.)
Its only a matter of time before you dollar bulls will get carried out on a stretcher.
Bingo.
On a long enough timeline...
Only gov't debt I'm bullish on is cash equivalents baby
That could be first thing monday morning. 12 hours a long enough time line for you ? Remember the first one out profits the most. It makes no logical sense to be bullish on any US govt debt.
US paper- Minimal upside potential, maximum downside risk.
Gold- Maximum upside potencial, minimal downside risk.
US paper- 30 year bull market
Gold- 10 year bull market
Mr. Spitzer,
Perhaps you should take a step back, take a breath and re-evaluate your positions at a time when you are more rational.
You know, it is not simply "rabies" any more. Here, it's, "Aurabies," with many otherwise serious people fixated on the Golden Blossom in the Price of a hunk of metal, steady foaming at the mouth while verbally threatening other otherwise serious people who don't necessarily believe in the idea that Gold is the key to the kingdom.
Personally, if I got that obsessed with the Price of the Great British Pound Sterling, I would check myself into a hospital for "emotional" evaluation.
Seriously, y'all are starting to creep me out.
/:
+1
You don't even know the difference between fiat money and monetary metals.....
This discussion is way beyond your education level.
The unmolested bottom price of gold is estimated at $450 or $500 so is a $500 to $1200 over 10 years really an over heated market ?
Orly,
"Personally, if I got that obsessed with the Price of the Great British Pound Sterling"
If you got that emotional with the BPS, I WOULD check you in.............isn't it also F_I_A_T?.
No, not the car..............
Stretchers? Man they're gonna need paint scrapers and spatulas.
Jdrose must have a really special grocery store, or he hasn't noticed the packages getting smaller:
http://consumerist.com/2008/04/breyers-ice-cream-shrinks-to-15-quarts.html
http://www.jtirregulars.com/2009/09/incredible-shrinking-toilet-paper-ro...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1190395/Shrinking-Mars-bar-Size-...
http://www.mouseprint.org/2007/11/05/dial-soap-the-incredible-shrinking-...
Sorry jdrose, no falling prices in the stores. Now go look at the price of ag commodities. Parabolic.
well a dozen eggs is still a dozen eggs, a gallon of milk is still the same gallon, local veggies are mostly unchanged to slightly lower, i don't buy toilet paper (whoops, just kidding), ice cream and candy bars aren't my thing.
Ag prices going parabolic? Look at a yearly chart of DBA
LOL. you must be looking at the 1 min charts or something. DIdn't you get ol Spitzers memo? we're talking macro ec here, heh
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/index.html?s=CBOT_W.Z10&t=&a=&w=&v=d12
Cool, I have a number of 50lb bags of 9 grain, steel chopped wheat sitting downstairs keeping cool.
Maybe I'll be selling some of that to the starving gold holders on my front lawn in 6 months. LOL.
Oh good you take gold and silver. Talk a lot of shit but still willing to accept real money.
The question is, what will happen in the coming months, not what is happening on Sunday August 1st 2010. Maybe you have no capital to protect or invest but I do.
If we where in the midst of 1930s deflation(like you say) then why haven't these commodities fallen in price equal to the fall in price of say, houses or stocks ?
Where is all the "deflation" in things priced on world markets ?
The re-stocking process just ended. Commodities go boom...now. Don't believe? Watch the AUDUSD cross.
Macro? Please.
Just try to keep up, Elliot.
Re-stocking process.... you still don't get this macro thing and yet you are mocking me about it.
Are you aware that the US government taxes the economy to service the debt ?
When the economy cannot service the dollar denominated debt then the debt and the dollar will sell off resulting in a loss of purchasing power.( INFLATION) not the demand pull variety.
When the economy cannot service the dollar denominated debt then the debt and the dollar will sell off resulting in a loss of purchasing power.( INFLATION) not the demand pull variety.
A vicious cycle with possible hyperinflation right there.
Hey numbnuts in case you hadn't noticed they're actually issuing debt to cover the debt payments lol man you probably still have some pets.com stock certificates proudly hanging on the wall of your basement bedroom your poor mother was forced to relegate you too all those years ago (along with your 24k plated dale earnhardt memorial coin)
just saying, you talk macro but think whacko.
You are dumber then I ever thought and you have had too much time on this forum.
lol its true. the taxpayers (all 120 million of us) are sucked so fucking dry theyre reduced to issuing debt tied to your grandchildren just to keep feeding the current equation. Oh fuck...that means...well let's just hope someone with your level of (un)intelligence is not trying to reproduce...
lol, you really are as dumb as i originally thought, guess i was just in denial this whole time.
good night, ref.
Price of gallon of gas Sep 10th 2001 (prior to attack of Osama bin Subcontractor) $1.53
Price of gallon of gas July 2010 $2.75 up 80%
Ladies and gentlemen, we have been at war with the horrible, terrible Osama bin Subcontractor (who hates our freedom fries) since September 11th 2001. Show me one single war in all history where prices have fallen.
Your argument is flawed (see second paragraph). Milk and eggs may have stayed similar in price at the store, but prices paid to producers crashed and are just now rebounding (higher profits at the retail level). This promotes consolidation of producer numbers in the hands of Corporation X chosen by the banks via who gets loans while they are losing their ass. Smaller producers go bankrupt while larger corp's gain more numbers....banks win because it creates a huge amount of debt.
Contents within packaging are shrinking within the same packaging for the same price. Ingredients changing...ie lower protein contents, etc. Higher profits. The corp's obviously think we're stupid. I can give examples if you want.
You get less of what you buy for the dollar. It is just more subvert.
jd,
What part of the USA you hail from?, my store bought items, are up a minimum of 10-25%+, and paper goods, are well......the Sears Catalog is beide the Terlit.
The packages that used to be 4, are now 3, and price same..........
Bags of items weight is down, price same or up.
I do all the shopping since I got tired............and over the past 3yrs, I have seen an average of at least a 30% increase in foodstuffs, and papergoods..........either due to LESS for same, or less for more.
You are absolutely right!.. I'm not going to list the dozens of expamples I have in mind but if people are really not convinced, and not just being disingenuous, they can do the research..
items smaller, prices up... over the past 5 years, i'd say about a 30-40-% increase due to both factors..
Spot on !!
Price of Big Mac April 2001 (prior to attack of Osama bin Subcontractor) $2.54
Price of Big Mac July 2010 $3.73 up 47%
Price of a side of Freedom Fries not available.
My mother works in retail and watches prices on common items. She essentially checks prices all day, and then makes changes and suggestions to her employer to maintain competitiveness. She keeps metrics on brand, size, servings etc to do the comparisons. Food per serving is going up. Period. Only the cheapest lowest quality food is lower, and that is because the quality at which it is being produced is lower.
Margins are being crunched, Eggs and Milk are ussually sourced as local as possible. They are also loss leaders for large chains. they lower staples because they know you will buy something else with it.
I'm in the heart of buckeye country. My wife is an avid coupon clipper who only buys what's on sale. Maybe not everyone else has that luxury. We mainly shop at Aldi's.
We live very simple so we can afford to help others (my wife is big on that). We don't buy shit food but I do realize package sizes are getting smaller if you're into those sort of things. In deflation, if prices are rising, they are absolutely going thru the roof in real terms. Yes it is possible and it is occuring this very moment. Let the resource wars begin.
I buy groceries for 4 and I can state without reservation, the price of feeding a family of 4 (Mrs. Cleaver type meals) has increased about 15%. There is no way around it. I have tried.
JD,
Based on your avatar, you must be incredibly insecure !!
Or is that Chelsey & her man?
Food inflation is through the roof, except for "loss leaders" to get you into the store ...
JD is one of the Johnny Bravos. He thinks the dollar has been strengthening for 25 years...
Ordinarily I shun the dollar in favor of risk. Not currently.
Pathetic attempt at building a straw man though.
*about my avatar, yeah that's us, married because we stand for the same things. definitely not out of insecurities, which is the only reason i can explain for many investors to "marry" positions.
Appreciate your insights JD...I too believe there aren't enough real dollars around & that when the SHTF it will be "the return of money & not the return on money" that really matters. Keep punching!
wish i had all the answers. stay nimble. thanks!
Why did you just go on a rant about demand pull inflation when I already said we would not have demand pull inflation ?
You are the one who is saying that the real economy is deflating and going to hell in a hand basket. I agree but how is a crashing economy based on real estate and financial services going to be able to service the debt of the government through taxation ?
Tax revenues are plummeting and when the economy cannot pay the interest on the debt, the debt and the dollar will be sold off and their values will fall.(inflation)
When the Greek people where short of Euros and where unable to service their debt, the Euro sold off on the FX market.(inflation) Or did I miss something, did the Euro go up to 1.8 or something ?(deflation)
Inflation and devaluation, in currency terms, are the same thing.
lol sure. the debt being sold off is what will actually drive demand for the currency higher as capital takes flight.
The Euro has most recently fallen in USD terms AND fallen in gold terms. Explain that one???
The paradoxical strong dollar is a repulsive concept to grasp for sure.
Edit *EURUSD has risen, not fallen.
You don't understand macro economics which is what this discussion is really about.
Creditor nations own US debt denominated in dollars, that is the debt I am talking about. When there is more sellers of dollars then buyers, the value of the dollars will fall.(inflation)
Yes the Euro situation has cooled off recently, there has been more buyers then sellers of Euros so the value of them has gone up(deflation)
I call BS: The market is imaginary. IT does not exist. As long as there is a real or imagined third party in any transacation there is no market.
No the market "IS" actually there since people are losing their shirts. What IT really is, "Is the Greatest Scam on Earth"
I am referring to the federal reserve corporation in Canada and the US.
The world is awash in dollars and they are available to anyone for the right price. There will be no deflation. Every time it pops up, the Fed crushes it with liquidity at the margins.
Sure, if you are solvent or can access credit or cash, you can vulture on people who are dumb enough to try to repay their debts.
Never mind that M3 has been falling, even inspite of massive QE.
So much for the argument that "there will be no deflation". It's not only happening, but M3 has been declining for some time.
inflation is the end game, not deflation.
There has been so much destruction in wealth, even if we add another trillion into the system it will hardly 'blip'.
It will take a long, long time to get back to 2007 level.
QE is not only required, it is a MUST.
It does not matter if there is no QE, it will still end in inflation.
The economy is collapsing and so is the tax revenue that is used to pay the interest on the debt. The debt is what gives the dollar value, full faith and CREDIT.
When it is clear that the US economy cannot service its debt, the dollar will sell off because the real economy is the only thing that gives it value.
Dollar sell off=devaluation=inflation.
Spitzer,
I agree, the killer will be CAPITAL INFLOWS...........
We are staring at Hyper Inflation......bank it.
Screw M3.
Yes Inflation is the end game. Right now though we have over valued assets (as in houses) call it deflationary assets. A 500,000 house or equipment to 400K, to 300K to Auction to mark to market. I think Ben Rankie is doing a marvoulous job (a Maestro) pitting the natural deflation of asset with inflation. However, he's going to run out of those "Deflation" allowances then... BAM Hyper-inflation to the moon, Alice! The middle class WAS the liquidity needed to buy these over valued assets but because wages NEVER ROSE with productivity (due mostly to greed in the F.I.RE industry) and NAFTA/ off shoring manufacturing. Minimum wage s/b $25/hr dollars right now @ 3% unemployment! ...every thing is at this point irreversible and we are now headed into The Greatest Double Dip Recession that chicken shit economists wont call a depression.
The original comment wasn't about the end game. It was that there won't be deflation. Deflation (as in money supply) is currently going on. And it will continue for a while. Once the excess credit has collapsed, then yes, we'll see inflation. But this won't happen until all the excess credit has been destroyed. I'm not sure I'd call it the end game, though. A new chapter would be more accurate. We live in interesting times.
lol. love this "end game" you keep bringing up. funny concept. like we will just inflate until eternity or time will stop, leaving behind a picture of the entire planet buried under mountains of FRN's. Oh, and you'll be sitting on top of the largest pile clutching a pile of shiny rocks.
good luck with that one.
It could take a few weeks.
Dollar takes a trashing, Timmy G will have a press confrence; main subject is currency reform. The big boys like Saudi arabia and China will have some deal done with SDR and gold and the little dumb fuck investor like you will have an account of US dollars that just lost half their value.(INFLATION)
JDrose please show me a craigslist ad of gold for sale below spot.
you couldn't sell your gold JD? And this is supposed to be some kind of indication of the state of the economy?
yeah nobody is buying gold anymore
http://truthingold.blogspot.com/
lots of buyers...
It wasn't that I couldn't necessarily sell it. Used to be; it would all be gone within a day or two and I'd have to take the ad down because of all the calls. About a month ago I put it up for sale, wasn't gone until about a week later (spot had moved up in the meantime, I sold it at the original listed price). Had a couple guys who called, surprised it was still available. Had some nice conversations, got plenty of anecdotes, things are really starting to sink in with people that something is wrong.
The main thing I've noticed is people selling gold and silver to pay debts. Liquidation indicator. people are getting liquidated and they need USD .. What else do u need to know?????
Bull fucking shit
How many Americans even own any gold ?
If you are selling gold to pay off debt then you truly are a committed slave.
Where did I say I was selling to pay off debt? I carry zero debt. Lots of straw men being built around here. Typical.
Good call on the deleveraging. We will probably be deleveraging or going bankrupt for a while.
That includes the US government because " We " pay the taxes that service the debt. Bye bye dollar.
U truly have shits for brains.
"... the financial system is broke.."
Oh!
I thought it was the _judicial_ system that's broke.
Which is why the lawbreakers and tax cheats are running gov't instead of breaking larger rocks into smaller rocks.
Yes indeed. The real question, tho is: do the American dumbass peasants REALLY want their nobility prosecuted?
In America, it's the peasants who are the most adamant that their king has clothing. America has the most gullible peasants in the world. (Queue: slow motion eagles and flags... and patriotic peasants looking skyward... tears in their eyes).
I agree with your point and Im not sure why you got junked. the US electorate are not dumb asses though--it is far worse, most are really smart-they just want to believe in the goodness and rightousness of our country so much that they have become ignorant to reality. Dumb people can usually be educated - ignorant people can be out right violent if you try to educate them. We have a much larger problem than dumb people...much larger.
For generations now U.S. citizens have rested on the laurels of the veterans of WWII. There was a time for heroes and that time passed - it needs to come again but in a new form of Revolutionaries to bring about a return to the principles that created the once greatest nation in the history of the world. That nation was never intended to be an empire, nor was the government intended to do any more than protect the citizens. The citizens now need to protect themselves from the government.
I would like to meet you also...
OMFG!
Such drivel. Two examples of hyper-inflation where nobody would suggest an economy was working.
Wiemar Germany, post WWI Mid-depression, zillion% inflation.
Zimbabwe, until most recently when ZimDollar left service.
Note the qualifying statement, Dr. Freud....
...rising stock market would work better than any other alternative...
As per whose alternative?
Like the "Best Tool" in the Fed's War Chest...
Relax, it's all a puppet show. Nothing real is going on. Clowns and ponies and magic printing presses.
You're right - nothing is going to happen until something actually happens. The problem with the argument in favor of gold is that it assumes either a hyper-inflationary environment or some type of Mad Max scenario.
What happens if neither case come true? First of all, what if the power-elite successfully blow another bubble? Then all of this activity is just noise; ZH and the other financial bloggers quietely fold up their tents, and they become a faint memory.
Realistically though, given the cold hard facts, it doesn't seem likely the power-elite are going to be able to pull it off. There are simply too many trends conspiring to tank their every effort, including (boomer) demographics, offshoring, peak oil, compounding debt, tax loads, public employment levels, etc.
In this case, I advise people to step back and think about what typically happens when economies collapse. After all, we have thousands of years of examples in which to compare & contrast ourselves to previous societies which have had to confront the same sets of issues related to financial/economic calamity.
First & foremost, when economies collapse, (central) governments collapse. When that occurs, you have two opposite/overlay reactions:
Option 1: We see a desperate attempt to hold the center via force through a military coup.
Option 2: We see a rapid disintegration of central authority as regional divisions (which were always there but just covered up) quickly reassert themselves. In this case, of course, we would see regional secession(s).
Both options 1 & 2 would most likely entail rapid, catastrophic deflation as either remaining power would quickly terminate/abandon all existing institutions & preceding obligations: the Fed, $USD, sovereign debt, SS, welfare, pensions, GSEs, etc.
So in these types of situations, we won't have any idea of any true values - including gold - there will be very quick & sudden adjustments. What's the best asset to have in this case? Why, yourself - someone who is resourceful, gets along with others, either leads or follows, and generally pitches in to help out.
Holing up with your guns, gold & (food) supplies is just going to get you dead. Figure out who your natural allies are based on race, education, political philosophy, etc and make damn sure you're part of those groups. Otherwise, you're going to be part of the problem, and in these types of environments, no one will have the patience/luxury of dealing with troublemakers other than to just get rid of them.
It could be a stable transition. People are so dumbed up these days.
The government will call it currency reform an alternative currency like an SDR could be born. Or the Germans and the Russians will team up and release a new currency partially backed by gold.
It WILL BE a stable transition. This is not the old Soviet Union, a pile of conquered states reporting to a despot.
That's not to say the government won't be marched on by tens of millions of pissed off Americans and told to leave office, but America will survive. It is always darkest before the dawn. Do not lose hope.
Yes, America will survive since it is a continent, not a country; the prospects for the US on the other hand are not so certain.
this.
time to ditch the selfish, competitive, "rugged individualist" meme fed you for decades, en-forcing a solo, me-first point of view, and get with the dreaded. . .
community.
because if you think your land and guns and gold and food will "save" you, you've bought the systemic thinking hook-line-&-sinker.
learn to cooperate to get shit done.
Now that I HAVE my guns and gold, I am swinging around to your line of thinking. One of my goals this year is to "become a better man", in a variety of ways. This is goingt o be a slow process for me, as I am not extroverted. But I usually can achieve my goals.
Cooperation, generosity, civility and politeness are good starting points for me.
Thanks for the great observation that we will have to get through this together.
...
But, don't come around here to try and take my gold or guns. Will not end well.
Re: Peak Oil
First it's peak oil, then it's the GoM will become a tar pit, now you klowns are back to peak oil since the well was capped.
Give me a break.
You sound like a bunch of Global Warmists/Coolists.
Yes, but I'd rather be in Beverly Hills than Compton when the shit hits the fan. Very well thought out...... You're asking the teabaggers to understand this? pffffhhhttt...LOL
'magic printing presses ' ... I thought for a minute you'd forget the magicians
Avast maties!
Thar be 'n intersection of Bread an' Circuses Not Oft Seen!
We are living IN those interesting times...
ahh Greenspan, the ace of spades
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_1yZDNu8eN84/TDBTvDj7zNI/AAAAAAAAAcE/K1BgAmkhIgQ/s4...
http://financialterrorists.wordpress.com/sample-cards/
on Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:53
#498384
A tremendous amount of ground covered today. Look at what has been accomplished -
And the last seed of an idea coming from, MacktheKnife, who, whilst tugging at a raccoon(raccoons bite, I know), suggested hanging animal tails from car antennas. Forget tails...bankster bobbles, hanging from car antennas!
There are the naysayers and such who will strike up the band - that's ok. Several people think that we have an easy starter here. I do too. I may have thrown out a couple of organizational ideas farther up, check it out.
I do freely admit that I am just a soldier of average intelligence. I know that there are many people on this site who could get something this easy off the ground. Let's take turns. have some (legal) fun. We already have plenty to keep us busy.
Where is the incubation room? And who might volunteer some PR time when we hit some mass? Keep it rolling.
PS - I think this is a thread worth saving - good thread.
"It's Not A Market, It's An HFT 'Crop Circle' Crime Scene" - Further Evidence Of Quote Stuffing Manipulation By HFT
I know, it's Sunday. Just trying to sluff off the weekend ADD. "Keep It Rolling"
hey Village Idiot... what do you think of this position???
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff328.html
Only had time for a quick pass - I'll go back to it. Thanks for responding.
MacktheKnife
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7ZctAePIzI
I'll just hang my tail out the window!
Call it a Coon Moon.
LOL Rocky! I liked your little observation yesterday about Davey Crockett's good taste in caps too.
Will you be in line there at the ATM taking $500 on Thursday August 12 as well?
You ain't gonna believe this but I do not have an ATM card. I will withdraw a thousand from my checking account if that will help. That will be just about all of it because I don't keep large balances there. And that is in my local bank, not one of the big banks. My bank has 12 branches in this state only.
I needed to change the password on my on-line bank account access and called the 1-800 phone number provided. The rep asked for my ATM card number to verify. She was speechless when I told her there was no card connected to my account. You'd thought I'd grown a second head. Poor lady. Anyhow I convinced her otherwise and got the job done. I've NEVER had an ATM card and don't want one. I carry cash and pay cash whenever possible.
I am the same way. They keep sending me the plastic, I never activate them. They have always made me feel vulnerable.
You can contrast that behavior with the current generation using their ATM card for every transaction imaginable even a stick of gum from the store. The monthly checking account statement has hundreds of transactions. Try balancing that one. Yeech.
Cash is king, but there's a convenience factor so I use an ATM card. Why wait in line at the gas station, etc?
Numerous transactions in the modern US require some form of plastic money. Some places even use ATM cards as identification (the former Wells Fargo Bank comes to mind).
I don't wait in line at the gas station. I use a credit card, the same one card I use for Internet purchases. If it gets compromised it is taken care of with a phone call to the same local bank I use. Simmons Bank issues a Visa card. If I call for assistance I get a real person with a Southern accent -- or I can drive/walk a couple of blocks to the branch. The branch manager is a Face Book friend as well. "Local" means different things in the modern age, not just the friendly chat with a neighbor over the backyard fence.
Rocky-And if I catch your little sister flying her butt out the window like you do- will be some fine COON POON! Course, the legality would be dependent on the Coon's age.
hHey Tyler, why don't you replace the "flag as junk" button with a "Coon Moon" button?
My sister say, "Hey!".
She's a bit shy so you won't be seeing her back side.
Hey VI, as a symbol of unity, how about a Black Blindfold hanging off the aerial. It may come in handy later.
Bubble, Bubble? Somebody says there's a bubble - I don't see no stinkin' bubble... Hey wait, let me get my glasses on....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU4gP-QHxE0
I was just told Fox Biz has declared a recession will not occur and the market will rise from this point forward. They apparently also pointed out that the market has been to the upside since Otumbo's election.
This guy has no shame.
I cut him some slack because I think he got mind fucked by China and Japan buying so much US debt during his tenure.
He has been flat wrong about everything. Anyone with a shred of decency would just disappear off the airwaves rather than keep digging the hole. It says as much about the media mopes who book this guy as it does about the slimey reptile willing to appear (for a fee no doubt) to spout out his voodoo nonsense.
Alan , just fking disappear already. You have no value to add.
The latest Greenspan voodoo will go down in history alongside the 1967 speech where he talked about the role of gold in individual freedom. ( http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/greenspan.html )
But if you want to understand what Greenspan's really doing here, think about Robert McNamara's mea culpa for the Viet Nam war, made near the end of his life, in an effort to reset history more favorably.
At least he legitimizes the existence of PPT. He thinks.
Soon after Hank's folly, a group of chinese business leaders were on PBS (can't remember the show ) commenting " Uncle Sam can bail out America, but who's gonna bail out Uncle Sam ? " Who is gonna bail out Uncle Sam...?