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Alert At PPL Susquehanna Nuclear Power Plant Near Berwick, As Freon Leaks From Cooling System
The reason they call black swans just that is because they are unpredictable. A US bond auction failure is not a black swan as everyone talks about it; the bankruptcy of Europe, Japan, the UK and the US is not a black swan as it is inevitable; that futures will somehow turn green overnight even as they are solidly in the red currently is not a black swan: it is merely a few frontrunning algos working in tandem. However, a rerun of Chernobyl would be considered a pure, unadulterated black swan. Which is why we are following the situation at the PPL Susquehanna Nuclear Power Plant near Berwick where as WNEP 16 reports, "crews are are still trying to stop a freon leak in the unit one reactor
building. PPL officials said freon gas is leaking from an important equipment
cooling system inside unit one's reactor building. Workers were forced
to evacuate the area." Of course, local residents in the Wilkes-Barre region have not been told to evacuate: can't have something like panic now, can we - wouldn't be too beneficial for stocks, which as Greenspan said two weeks ago, are the only thing, not unemployment, not inflation, that matters to the Fed.
More from the source:
Freon continues to leak inside one of the reactor buildings at PPL Susquehanna.
Both units at the facility are still in operation but PPL officials said
crews are are still trying to stop a freon leak in the unit one reactor
building.The plant has been on alert since 9:30 a.m. Tuesday but officials stress the public is not in any danger.
PPL officials said freon gas is leaking from an important equipment
cooling system inside unit one's reactor building. Workers were forced
to evacuate the area.They must wear protective suits to access safety equipment in that part of the reactor because of that an alert was issued.
"I understand events like this can make people anxious because you talk
about an emergency at a nuclear power plant but it's really confined to
the reactor building itself," explained PPL spokesman Joe Scopelliti. He
added no radiation is involved.Scopelliti is helping to man the plant's information center near
Wilkes-Barre. It opens whenever an emergency situation is in effect.There are four classifications when something goes wrong at the plant.
One, the notification of unusual event; two, an alert, which in effect
now; three, a site area emergency and four, a general emergency.Only the last two affect the public. PPL doesn't expect this situation to escalate beyond alert.
"The fact that we have an emergency, even though it's a low-level
emergency attracts a lot of attention so we want people to know what's
going on," Scopelliti added. "All the safety equipment is still
available to do it. We can start it from different locations. Now our
attention is on this leak so we can stop it and move away from this
emergency.Officials said they don't know how the leak started but they added the
building does have a back-up cooling system so it is able to operate as
it should.No one was hurt and again the public is not in danger but 19
municipalities were notified there was a problem at the plant. The power
plant is required to notify the public of anything abnormal going on
inside, even if it doesn't impact those living nearby. Those who live
in the shadow of the plant said they are glad to know what's happening
there."It's important that they do it to alert the people," said Chris
D.Angelo. He is among the thousands of people who live within minutes
of the plant. "It's like 10 minutes from our house."
We will bring you more as we get it.
h/t Kyle
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People are probably asking themselves, where the hell is Susquehanna? Well, it's somewhere in Luzerne County, Pa.
Further, significant progess has apparently been made in containing the freon link (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ppl-susquehanna-reports-progress...).
Now, I'm about as bearish as a human being could be, but a simple Google search at least suggests that this isn't an issue.
I'm on the other (western) side of the state and the wind generally blows from us toward them. Still glad I've got a bottle of potassium iodide, though.
It isn't an issue. I find it funny that every time someone refers to a refrigerant they call it "freon", actually what I think they are referring to is a refridgerant known as R-134A. Don't get me wrong, this is a chloroflourocarbon, that is very toxic(in high enough concentrations) and is commonly used in automotive air conditioners, large chiller units for cooling large buildings. This refridgeration has nothing to do with the reactor cooling(they use "chill water" for that) a closed loop chill water system takes the excess heat and transfers it to an open loop chill water system that supplies the cooling towers. If anything the refridgerant used in a nuclear power plant "freon" is for climate control and has nothing to do with reactor coolant circulation(reactor coolant being highly purified and chemically treated water).
+1.
Tyler does get a bit carried away sometimes - and transparent with it.
Another Chernobyl would involve quite a lot of melting down over and above some leaky pipes.
Quite a lot was learnt from Belarus. Including that it's necessary to have a back-up to the reserve failsafe last-resort shutdown mechanism in the form of borax. Activating it would be an expensive option as it will likely knacker your reactor, although in an emergency, not as expensive as not activating it.
That said, it would likely happen automatically anyway.
yup fixed....
not a black swan, just a goose egg.
yup fixed....
not a black swan, just a goose egg.
Nuclear Bitches!
They just discovered how the leak started....
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2285/nuclearben.jpg
"Now, I'm about as bearish as a human being could be, but a simple Google search at least suggests that this isn't an issue."
I was thinking more of an "example" of what constitutes a black swan. Whatever - been away from the site for a while and feel like exacerbating my carpel tunnel.
Village, welcome back! I have been pounding the drum for taking out $500 (or local currency) from the ATMs for days this Thursday.
A couple of folks from overseas said they would join the fun, and do it before we get our chance as we wake up later than the rest of the world.
DoChen,
How goes it, my bearing?! Sorry I haven't been around to cheer the cause. However, I am back and ready to make a withdrawl from my bank account on August 12th. I decided to walk in and pull all but 50 cents. It will freak my banker out.
Hey, had another idea for a bumper sticker - "Push Away". let that "roll around" for a while and tell me what comes to mind.
Yo, Not-an --
That is along the lines of Taleb's point. We see actual events and think that they are predetermined. But he is as good as anyone at making random variables understandable, then positing that everything is a random variable. So it is hard/impossible to have an example. Maybe the cat in the box thing, but when wave function collapses, well, there you go.
Welcome back,
- Ned
Thanks Ned.
OK, enough fear-mongering based on Zero-Data. My 1957 freezer has a freon leak and no one has panicked yet.
I know what Sasquehanna is. Susquehanna hat company.. Isnt that the Dredded Hat company on Abbot and Costello in which Costello got the shit kicked out of him every time he mentioned the name?
Yep, kinda bizarre considering the implications implied.
Non-issue. Minor freon leak. Not at all a cause for concern.
big deal! freon leaks happen all the time!!!!! its not that big a deal dude!
once it stops leaking..nothing happens. clean up and fix. period
This is a total nothing, and frankly not worth reporting here. If this same leak occurred at a coal plant it would be a greater threat to the public (still nothing) yet wouldn't even make the local news.
Just an example of how pitifully people have been brainwashed into being terrified of anything "nuclear." It's not even half a step from Frankenstein's monster repeating "fire bad!!!"
Please explain how a Freon leak in a coal-fired power plant is different from a Freon leak in a nuclear power plant.
Clue: Freon is used for cooling of buildings, computers, that sort of thing. It is not used in the critical critical part of the cycle: Transferring heat between reactor/furnace and turbines; that runs on Water (liquid Sodium or Potassium salts in fast breeders - But is anyone actually running any of those?)
If the computers or the control room overheat, the plant will shut down, lights will go out and looting start - nu-cu-lar or coal. Same Thing.
Forget that pansyland Freon, watch out for Ammonia used in Cold Storage. They fly a tube flag showing which way to run upwind should the Ammonia alarm go off.
What a bunch of pantywaste fraidy cats sitting on a nice warm pile worrying about a bit of freon.
Even if the whole thing went uo, that part of Scranton is steep and folded. Everything would be contained in one hollow between two mountain ranges.
jensen-
Biggest difference is that this is in containment. Gotta remove escaping heat through vessel and main steam leads. But the containment building(s) are sealed, of course, and at like -1/8 in WC pressure so they suck. BWR at power has a lot of exclusion zones due to N16 shine and the plant management gets incentivized on low ALARA.
So human entry into containment with a bad gas is cumbersome and diagnosing takes time so they'll worry about crew burnup. Then the NRC gets to "help" them to get their minds right.
But this has nothing to do with the primary cycle. And the plant isn't really controlled by computers; not in the conventional sense and even today it is mostly analog (like TTL old).
- Ned
Tyler, you could have a standing link to nrc.gov's posting of all of the incident reports. These boys and girls are wound so tight that they report everything in the SCWE.
I'm very well aware of all that, thank you. I already stated that it was a nothing in either type of plant. Why is it more of a nothing in a nuke plant? Because they have more rigorous safety procedures in place and follow them more tightly.
Perhaps a govt orchestrated plan to put people back to work cleaning up Pennslyvania. Or maybe another one of those insidious govt plots ala 9/11 resulting in martial law and confiscation of gold and invading Iran next week (or is it the week after, or the week after that?) etc etc etc.
The Nuke Scranton Option.
Can't they just all cling to their guns and pray?
Perhaps a govt orchestrated plan to put people back to work cleaning up Pennslyvania.
Can they start at my house, specifically, in the kitchen?
In my opinion, you all miss Tyler's point of attempting to define a true Black Swan, as something for which there is NO WARNING. He gives examples of things that are NOT Black Swans, as any rational person can read the tea leafs.
The point is NOT the freon, as it is benign, but that the freon is UNSEEN and UNPLANNED, just as if this WAS as serious an event as Chernobyl.
You people are so literal...
@ LONESTAR,
It's hard enough for me to chime in with something relevant, and yet, you steal my thunder. I already pointed this out! Three posts from the top! It took you six or seven!
Village Idiot
on Tue, 08/10/2010 - 19:49
#514390
"Now, I'm about as bearish as a human being could be, but a simple Google search at least suggests that this isn't an issue."
I was thinking more of an "example" of what constitutes a black swan. Whatever - been away from the site for a while and feel like exacerbating my carpel tunnel.
EDIT - It took you 13.
Yes, well, they say that all thoughts have already been thunk at some point in the past so if we went by your rules nobody would be allowed to ever open their mouths. Hmm, not a bad idea.
"Yes, well, they say that all thoughts have already been thunk at some point in the past so if we went by your rules nobody would be allowed to ever open their mouths. Hmm, not a bad idea."
"You people are so literal..."
exacerbating my carpel tunnel
My mouse wheel finger actually hurts.
"The reason they call black swans just that is because they are unpredictable. A US bond auction failure is not a black swan as everyone talks about it......"
Someone has read the bible.
Sounds like they're NOT repeating Chernobyl...and working the safety procedures as planned.
Imagine if BP was as prepared as these guys when their S hit the F.
I don't even want to imagine how I would have filled the empty hours if I hadn't been able to watch that riveting gusher video 24 hrs a day for the past 2 months.
You could have waited for ZH posts to dribble out all day.
A reactor coolant leak in the primary would be an issue. Freon is an EPA, OSHA issue. Of course they could be lying.....
Freon? Refrigerant the A/C in the break room?
I just called my automobile mechanic and he has confirmed that there is a danger of ozone depletion.
Hey, never thought all the years of studying stationary engineering would actually come in handy here on ZH! It's nice being able to contribute...sometimes...
Don't stress, Freon's great for cleaning up oil.
Two facts:
Freon isnt used to cool the reactor core.
Freon is used to cool my head.
Freon? I just love the sound of it. If it's not one thing its another. Just as the Gulf oil well blow out was stopped, we have the potential for radiation to spew all over the place. What's next? Giant wind turbines coming to life and ravaging the country side like Martians in War of the Worlds? Oops...they won't like it that I disclosed this....
IK-I love the smell of freon in the morning.
And your "giant wind turbine" comment. Was driving on NY 104, East of Rochester and the Bay, passed the wind turbine and "BANG" had a canada goose that had been sliced and diced land on the top of my (rental) car.
Try explaining to the third-assistant manager at Hertz Express why there are still feathers and blood next to the ding on the roof.
- Ned
This is a non-event. Freon is a DuPont brand name it's refrigerants. One cannot know the type unless it is more defined, R-22, R134a, Etc. The plant is old enough that it could be R-12. Different refrigerants have different toxicity characteristics, with R123 being most hazardous. Most of the others are toxic only as a suffocation threat (ie displacing breathable air). Leaks like this occur in industrial situations routinely, and it is only due to the nature of the nuclear generation facility that causes this to be reported in the national media. Large leaks are reportable to local, state and federal agencies, depending upon the volume and type of refrigerant. Unless there is some other type of threat (ie ammonia refrigerant leak = bad deal) there is usually no press involved.
So lay off the poor nukes. WTF
Just don't look up when the black swans are circling above!
Tyler: Avoid posting this crap in future. It is a non-event. Nothing to do with nuclear safety. Stop the sensationalism or you will be marginalized.
In my understanding from Talib's book the idea of a "Black Swan" is really about what you do not know that you do not know, the quadrant of possibilities labeled the "unknown - unknowns".
He associates this idea to things that are assumed to be absolutely known in communal human knowledge but are later proved to be incorrect, causing significant dislocations in systems using the prior assumed knowledge.
The possibility of a nuclear plant problem is well within the realm of known possible things in the common mind. So it does not qualify.
I do agree that it would not be a black swan to have a melt down of the US role as safe haven within the international markets, at least to the human populous.
However, one must consider that contractual and cybernetic systems (complex hedges and HFT for example) may have their own set of mechanical assumptions which do not reflect the human masters' larger awareness.
In which case these systems themselves may have a "Black Swan" event which catapults them into some kind of complex melt down as they eat their own data tails and entrails, due to crazed inputs they can not handle.