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Algeria Protests Turn Violent As Demonstrating Maghrebians In Paris Join In Solidarity

Tyler Durden's picture


As predicted yesterday, Algeria is "next." They just don't quite know it yet. The attached clip shows the first recorded clashes between demonstrators and police in Algiers. Certainly not the last.

And possibly a bigger issue, as Zero Hedge observed some time ago, is that while Egypt and Tunisia do not have major expat populations, Algeria most certainly does. In fact, those of Maghreb descent in France are estimated to be between 3 and 5 million: a potentially dangerous mix. Which is starting to materialize: as France 24 reports 'Hundreds of protesters gathered in the historic Place de la République
in Paris Saturday, calling for a "Free and democratic Algeria" in a
proud show of solidarity with Algeria's budding anti-government

Crowds gathered in Paris’ Place de la République Saturday in a show of solidarity with anti-government protesters in Algeria. The protests in the French capital came as thousands took to the streets of the Algerian capital of Algiers in defiance of a government ban on demonstrations to stage a rally calling for the removal of Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika.

Saturday’s protests in Paris and Algiers came the day after Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak stepped down following an 18-day popular uprising in the world’s largest Arab nation.

In Paris, protesters called for a “Free and democratic Algeria!” and held signs demanding that Bouteflika “Get out!” From the bed of a truck, people were invited to take turns at the megaphone, while people danced and chanted as music blared over loudspeakers. Egyptian and Tunisian national flags rippled in the air alongside Algeria’s emblematic green, white and red flag, in a proud show of Arab solidarity.

Nearly a month ago, Tunisian strongman Zine al Abidine Ben Ali fled into exile, sparking speculation over whether Tunisia’s far larger and wealthier western neighbour could turn into “the next Tunisia”.

Bouteflika, who has served as Algeria’s president since 1999, has come under pressure from opposition groups and many ordinary Algerians demanding democratic reforms.

The problem with all these concerted uprisings first in north Africa and soon everywhere else, is that as countries gradually convert to "democratic" regimes (no rush there though- they will likely go through several iterations of puppet governments of the deposed administration), the great experiment in globalization, in which repressive, yet America-friendly regimes fall, is about to be turned on its head.


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Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:26 | 955993 SilverFiend
SilverFiend's picture

Welcome to "The Coming Insurrection".

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:31 | 956006 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Yep. Gird your loins.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:49 | 956047 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Multi culturalism has not worked out.

Does Sarkozy not know what a guillotine is?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:56 | 956070 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Multi culturalism has not worked out.


Where does it come from?

Where is multiculturalism in all that?

Those demonstrators call for a free and democratic Algeria.

Should be an evidence these people are absorbed in terms of political ideology.

Now that a democratic and free Algeria could bother a majority of French, that is another story.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:38 | 956162 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The concern is some kind of spillover of any street protesting from the home country Algeria into the streets of France, where multi-culturalism has been an epic fail.   EPIC.   The 2nd and 3rd generation "issus de l'immigration magrebine" use the word "francais" as an insult.    Hundreds of neighborhoods in France are no-go zones for police or emergency services, except in force.   Carbecues are a regular occurence.   French women adopt scarves not because they like them but to cut down on the insults and unwelcome approaches by the unemployed "youths" roving anti-French French citizens whose TVs at home are connected to dishes pulling down free to air arab satellite muck.    A drive through one of their government housing projects is edifying as to the scale of the problem.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:21 | 956258 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I would love to read your explanation of this guy:

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:59 | 956462 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

I'm pretty sure I don't know him, but he's emphatic, and uh, character goes a long way, even when you are not Cumbawombat.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:21 | 956259 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The concern is some kind of spillover of any street protesting from the home country Algeria into the streets of France, where multi-culturalism has been an epic fail.  


How is people calling for freedom and democracy a sign of multiculturalism?

Arent freedom and democracy supposedly values cherished by the French republic? Values one should die for, values that one should share with others?

The main question is not about multiculturalism. These demonstrators are not displaying multiculturalism in any form. They are republican French heart and soul.

The question is :where are the other French? French are known to demonstrate for everything and anything. Demonstration is a national sport to them. Frog leg grows too expensive? They demonstrate. The weather has been bad, they demonstrate.

So where are the other French? Do they no longer consider that freedom and democracy are worthwhile demonstrating for?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:57 | 956458 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Where are the other French?  Well, they have quite a lot of contact with North African culture. Way more than they want.  

Most of them are under NO illusions that "democracy" AND "freedom" (i.e. both at the same time) will emerge from these uprisings in North Africa.     The dominant religion-slash-culture are incompatible with both "freedom" and "democracy" as we understand these things in the west.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 03:24 | 957255 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

who junked the man?

"Democracy...with a side order of Sharia law.....sounds doable..."

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 22:58 | 956883 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

TBT - you almost had a cogent argument to make until you got to this

TVs at home are connected to dishes pulling down free to air arab satellite muck.

Change Arab to Zionist and you're discribing the only thing on offer in the HomeLand.

Yes or No.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 00:30 | 957047 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Have you ever been to France dude(/dudette)?

The HLMs' (that's french for shitty governent housing) patios are covered with satellite dishes on their south sides, pointing at the free to air satellites that carry arab language programming.   So that the arab speaking, non-integrating, nominally french residents can watch stuff that corresponds to their culture and values.


Mon, 02/14/2011 - 01:10 | 958886 Michael
Michael's picture

Change Arab to Zionist and you're describing the only thing on offer in the HomeLand.

You got it so right in more ways than one. It's like that in all the western countries. It's one big fucking game they are playing with us.

You both are right. 

TBT sees the foreigners pulling down programing from their homeland, while at the same time the duped French are watching the zionist programming that tells them multiculturalism is good. No! It's just a zionist ploy to break up, divide, and conker the French and European people as well as is happening in the the rest of western civilization including the US. The Arabs are just the zionists weapon they are using against us with no fault on the part of the Arabs. What do you expect the Arabs to do? The zionists system of money and oppression made the Arab countries a hell on earth. That's why so many of them fled to Europe bringing their culture with them as the zionists knew they would. You can take a boy out of the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of the boy. Crafty sons of bitches the zionists are.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:01 | 956182 GDE
GDE's picture

We wish Arabs could go home and fight in their countries instead of making riots in our streets in Paris. We are so f**** tired that these foreigner conflicts affect our lifes here every single day (one day it's the Ivorians, the next day the Tunisians, then the Egyptiens, the Kurdes and now the Algerians) and we can't stand this insane multiculturalism society that Uncle Sam is forcing us to accept.

We already have millions of immigrants that we can't handle anymore and Washington is planning to bring more here. The USG wants to quintuple the number of immigrants to Europe. This is absolutely insane.

There are thousand of Tunisians who are landing right now in dramatic conditions in Italy to escape Tunisia since Ben Ali was forced to leave !

We are in a huge crisis with huge debt. We don't have the money and we don't have jobs for our own people. Why bringing more immigrants ? Soon there will be more Africans in Europe than Europeans !

Stop the madness. US stay at home. Leave Europe and the world alone.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:01 | 956208 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Leave Europe and the world alone.

How did that work out for France between WWI and WWII, American isolationism?

As to your immigrant problem, I am not aware of any US government program encouraging Europe to take more immigrants of any kind.  What Europe has done in that regard is entirely its own doing as far as I can tell.    BTW I lived in France for TEN years, and sympathize with the concern over the rapidly multiplying, non-integrating north african immigration, but I don't see how this is the U.S. fault, even obliquely.   Help me out here, SVP.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:20 | 956230 GDE
GDE's picture

I'm happy you did sympathize with them but like you said it these people are not French or European. They are North African and will never integrate in the multi-millenium european cultures and societies.

The Europeans don't want more immigrants for economic but also cultural reasons but we are forced to accept them to transform Europe in a huge multicultural and multi-ethnic place. Blair, Cameron, Sarkozy, Merkel and others are doing the job that Uncle Sam is telling them to do.

The USA want to quintuple the immigrants in Europe (from the US ambassador himself) :

The OCDE wants it too ! But we can't handle all these people. This will end in a very ugly ethnic and cultural war.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:23 | 956262 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I guess you'll re-think that whole colonization thing in the future, won't you?

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:32 | 956288 GDE
GDE's picture


I guess you'll re-think that whole colonization thing in the future, won't you?


I have no lessons to take from an American in that matter. I was not born when european colonization occured and feel no guilt for it, but if I was you I would feel ashamed by what your land is doint right now, colonizing and destroying the whole world in the name of freedom and democraty.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 23:58 | 956997 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Yes, apparently you do have a lesson to take.  The lesson is that you are living the legacy that your forebears placed upon you, and it's up to you to either deal with it intelligently, rationally and humanely, or be the bigot that you seem to be.  No, you didn't ask for it, but it is yours nonetheless.

So, how are you going to deal with it?

I am Chumbawamba.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 00:33 | 957055 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Learn some history Chumba.   The massive immigration from Algeria that has continued and accelerated long after the French abandonement of Algeria was a political choice by France's leaders, not an inevitable result of their colonial sins. No karma forced France to keep at it.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 02:47 | 957227 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

How does this in any way contravene what I wrote?  If anything it reinforces it.

You're sad, dude.  Give it up.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 03:05 | 957238 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The French colonisation of Algeria, colonisation being you word choice, was not the cause of the massive immigration of Algerians to France over the last few decades.    There is no karma link between the colonisation that ended quite a long time ago and the massive influx since.  This  influx, which continues massively today, continues by current political choice very independently of what forbears(again your word choice) did during the colonial period.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 03:48 | 957264 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

he got ya Chumba....

"Blair, Cameron, Sarkozy, Merkel and others are doing ze job zat Uncle Sam is telling zem to do."

I sympathize with your country's "guest worker" program TBT but that is a strange trope i must say. 

Are the various nations ruled by various interlinked global banking/corporate/political elites or not?

If so, doesn't it follow that they ALL follow generous "immigrant" policies in all their culture/national I.D. diluting glory?

Does America itself seem like something worth defending when our own government can't be bothered to seal the border despite all the Trillions wasted on GWOT? Granny's crotch though, they got that covered.....

What is america now?

Just a polyglot of narrow self interested "tribes" trying to make a buck

France? majority Islamic in 40 years

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 12:45 | 957667 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Oh really?  He "got me"?  The simple fact is that there would not have been a mass immigration of Algerians into France if they had never occupied the place.

Apparently, the bar for intellectual discourse is rather low these days.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 12:54 | 957680 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

The colonization has nothing to do with it. Why is there mass immigration into Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and Finland? They never colonized any Muslim, African, or Arab lands. 

Apparently, the bar for intellectual discourse is rather low these days.

I am Sun Tzu and you are pathetic. Give it up dude. You're making a bigger fool of yourself with each post

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 13:14 | 957713 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

i didn't say it had "nothing" to do with it Chumbacrank.

All of Europe is projected to be majority muslim given demographic trends.

The gateway countries take it 1st and worst of course.....

repent, relent, and hit the showers for I am Bananamerican etc....

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 01:26 | 958933 Michael
Michael's picture

It's a result of Europe accepting a zionist central banking cartel system.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 12:49 | 957677 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Sweden never colonized any African colonies yet they are also flooded with North African immigrants. Hey, whatever fits your views, right?


I am Sun Tzu

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 01:07 | 958915 Michael
Michael's picture

The sins of the father are visited upon the children.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:36 | 956294 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:23 | 956265 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The Europeans don't want more immigrants for economic but also cultural reasons


Indeed, people calling for freedom and democracy are dangerous people in the eyes of Europeans apparently.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:37 | 956298 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

You really are a one track record today aren't you?  I believe he has explained himself rather well.  They are over-FUCKING-run to the point where their country and their life is no longer what it used to be.  They are broke. 

I don't think most people in Arizona are against Mexicans fighting for freedom and democracy either, they would just prefer that the fight take place in Mexico.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 21:24 | 956726 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Exactly Colonel and to expand on this point, what value do these millions of immigrants bring to a country that does not need them for labor? Why would they continue to be encouraged to come (via immigration laws, open borders, etc) by a countrys leadership?

One of the theories I've accepted as making sense, having witnessed several U.S. administrations completely ignore or exacerbate our own illegal immigration problem, is that this multiculturalism thingy is foisted upon the citizens of countrys in order to divide and conquer them. It's sold as some sort of politically correct way to prove that one is not a racist and intolerant of other cultures. In reality it appears to be a ploy to breakdown the national identity and change the laws which protect sovereignty/rights. A populace that has many varied priorities and concerns can easily be usurped by legislation pushed through with minimal support but no large opposition. No other explanation for this policy makes sense. It's not normal for a country to promote a policy that is bad for it's citizens unless there is another reason. Maybe this tinfoil hat stuff about one world gov't is actually true? This certainly would be one of the tactics to get there.


Sun, 02/13/2011 - 00:41 | 957064 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Weeelllllll, there is some of that now, from the european left mainly, which seeks designated victim groups to pander to.  

But if you back up to the orginal thinking on why France went into Algeria, it was to build up strategic depth, a deeper reserve of manpower to help it counter its classic enemy Germany, which was and remains bigger than France in that regard.    They go their asses handed to them my the teutons in the 1870's, in WW I, and WW II, thus several generations of French had learned that lesson.    After they cut their losses in Algeria, they still believed in strategic depth for France via immigration of workers to give them mercantile advantages, and population growth to grow their taxes and military conscription.   They believed their national education system and military service would turn these immigrants kids into full on Frenchies from generation one, but it didn't work.   They are non-integrated bitter minorities who use the word "francais" as an insult.   No shit.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 12:47 | 957671 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Wow, didn't you just try to convince us not half a dozen comments above this one that the legacy of Algerian immigration into France was in no way tied to the occupation?

Pick a position and stick with it.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 12:56 | 957689 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Your comprehension abilities are severely limited. How many times were you dropped on your head as an infant?

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 07:33 | 957349 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

They are over-FUCKING-run to the point where their country and their life is no longer what it used to be.  They are broke. 


Overrun by whom? People demonstrating for freedom and democracy?

He explained nothing.  Neither did you.

How is them demonstrating for freedom and democracy a sign of multiculturalism?

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 12:58 | 957696 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

If they truly are French, why are they demonstrating in the streets over Egypt, Ivory coast, Algeria, or some other country? The point is they do not see themselves as French and would rather carve out a piece of France for themselves.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:09 | 956303 GDE
GDE's picture

Indeed, people calling for freedom and democracy are dangerous people in the eyes of Europeans apparently.

You want to fight for a change in your country ? Then go back home. You won't change anything miles away.


By the way, the change for democraty is already a failure in Tunisia. Tunisians are coming in waves to Europe right now.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:32 | 956289 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Hang on, you misread me, GDE.  I sympathize with the native Europeans, not the non-integrating immigrants.

My issue with your statements here is the idea that U.S. is causing European governments to import these people.    I don't know of any such policy by the U.S., ever, at least as regards your north african and turkish immigration problems.   Can you substantiate that?  Provide some clue as to how to find the proof of this alleged U.S. activity?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:36 | 956297 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Come on, he must have one since you've asked for one.

This will allow to propagate on that nice litterature on this comment section.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:50 | 956420 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

deleted by author

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:49 | 956321 GDE
GDE's picture

Sorry for the misunderstanding TBT.

See the US ambassador video above and the ODCE plans for Europe and also the Eurabia project

And if you don't already know it the EU is a transatlantic entity whith no real independency

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:09 | 956399 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

OK, I scanned the first link regarding Eurabia, and didn't remark any doings by the U.S. meant to favor the Eurabia project(oops see (*) below).

Now, if you mean to say the U.S. was very much for the integration of Turkey, a genuine NATO ally from the cold war times, then yeah, the U.S. is guilty as charged.  The thought by our state department was that would help keep Turkey westernizing, and of course undermine caliphate type developments.  I used to be supportive myself, but that project is a lost cause now, with the Erdogan government in power and the turkish military(the modernizing force in that country) now under the boot of the pro-islamic civilian government.  

But, let's note that Turkey is not arab or North African.   I'm not seeing where the US has been encouraging Europe to take north africans on board.   Ditto all the turks that moved to Germany back when NATO was still useful, or the muslim and other refugees from the former Yugoslavia when that went to shit.   None of that is the US' doing.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:08 | 956439 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

(*)   Ah crap, sorry GDE!   I just started listening to Barack Obama's ambassador to the Zeropean Union.   I apologize on behalf of the U.S.  

Didn't know Obummer had sent this asshole, but this appointments fits Obama's M.O.    Obama and his blizzard of appointees are doing so much all at once to undermine the U.S. and the west in general that it is hard to keep track of it.   Dinesh D'Sousa has a great book explaining such destructive behavior by a U.S. president, titled The Roots of Obama's Rage.   He is reflexively pro-third world and anti-western, in the mold of his father, to whom he dedicated his life's work, in his own words, in his own biography Dreams from My Father.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 01:14 | 958925 Michael
Michael's picture


USA zionists are pulling the strings. See US foreign policy.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:51 | 956320 Michael
Michael's picture

The multiculturalists in the US tried to pull the same bullshit on us with the flooding of our country with illegals from south of the border.

That is one main reason I cheered the collapse of the housing bubble. It put millions of illegal aliens out of work in the construction industry. You know before the Latin invasion, American drywallers were paid $21 a sheet to hang it. By the end of the housing bubble it was going for $7 with illegal alien labor.

Oh, sure there was a lot of illegal alien demonstrations sparked by the Arizona law to crack down on them and the failure of our congress to give amnesty to the 20 million illegals. There were many protests by them in our country, especially in California and Arizona, but they were no match for us legals. We already knew what was really going on with them.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:06 | 956364 GDE
GDE's picture


You know before the Latin invasion, American drywallers were paid $21 a sheet to hang it. By the end of the housing bubble it was going for $7 with illegal alien labor.

Different place, same script. The same bandits take advantage of African immigrants and use them to lower the average salary and Europe's standard of living. What we are facing is a huge replacement of population and the end of our civilizations.

The American people and the European people are fighting the same ennemy. We must take them down or will we disappear.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:17 | 956396 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

"American drywallers were paid $21 a sheet to hang it. By the end of the housing bubble it was going for $7 with illegal alien labor."

You do realize don't you that the first part of your statement is what led to the last part of it?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:20 | 956404 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Which part of "illegal" is OK with you?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:31 | 956418 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

No part.  So let's substitute illegal for "shipping jobs overseas".  Drywall isn't worth $21/sheet, you know it, I know it, the General Contractor knows it, the developer knows it, the rat bastard who's hiring the wetbacks knows it, WE ALL KNOW IT.  (and if you're going to argue that, you're a drywaller)  Same with most manufacturing. (without starting a debate on corporate business climate/taxes etc.)  As long as Chinese workers will put widgets together for a fraction of what American workers demand, we will never be competitive in manufacturing.

$21 dollars a sheet isn't competitive, the UAW isn't competitive, Skilled Construction locals aren't competitive, and we all know it.  (Keep in mind while you junk this, that I am a card carrying member of a construction union)  I have ZERO sympathy for illegals, or those who hire them.  My point was more that if the drywallers would have charged a more competitive $14/sheet in the first place, maybe nobody would have shopped them out.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:48 | 956448 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

OK, but "competitive" with who, exactly?     Without the illegals in the labor market (i.e. assume no immigrants to hang dry wall, legal or not), was there some other labor pool ready to jump in at $14/hr ?     How do you know $14 was the market clearing rate?   I don't know what this should be worth.   Maybe that is about the going rate in Right To Work states like Texas, but not where you are?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:01 | 956467 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I only drew $14 as a mid point between the 21 and 7 he threw out.  There are obviously variables, and if we're talking NYC drywallers, the 21 maybe isn't even out of line, I don't know. When illegal labor wasn't much of an issue, then it was non-union (rat).  The only reason that I seem to be picking on the unions, is that in 95% of cases the union sets the scale that everybody must meet.

I am more commenting on the fact that American workers in semi skilled trades have developed an entitlement mentality towards incomes that are unsustainable once the Pandoras Box of a global economy and/or illegal labor has been opened.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 20:25 | 956637 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Gotcha.  Thanks.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 22:58 | 956882 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The major problem with the status quo:  "The only constant is Change."  Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:05 | 956465 Michael
Michael's picture

I totally agree the union wages are way too high on the opposite end of the spectrum. But where do you draw the line and how do you make it a fair playing field? As a non union machinist, in my later years of working I got off the hamster wheel about 5 years ago, I was paid $15.20/hr running a $10 million machining behemoth for Pall Corp. I draw the line at 50c/hr Chinese and 75c/hr Indian labor. I freely admit I can't compete with them.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:04 | 956474 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Fair enough.  I kind of misunderstood the meaning of your post.  I agree, we can't compete at the wages they are willing to work for.  It's pretty damn scary isn't it?  $.50 an hour plus the cost of overseas shipping?  We're screwed right back to the end of the ninteeth century.  Pandoras Box.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:18 | 956492 Michael
Michael's picture

Nuff said about that issue.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:23 | 956499 snowball777
snowball777's picture

You know in your heart that is complete bullshit.

You think you can find a general contractor that wouldn't rather pocket the $7/hr difference and hire the illegals?


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:20 | 956495 snowball777
snowball777's picture

You've never been through the legal immigration process have you?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:54 | 956562 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

This is a repost of costs I had in 2009.

Even $21 per sheet is to cheap for the unions to hang. A hung sheet includes screwing it off.

@90.72 per hr cost (2010)it breaks down to $1.51 per minute per carpenter costs.

Problem is it takes two people to hang drywall efficiently so it would be $3.02 per minute to hang drywall hence those two carpenters would have to glue & screw a 4x8' sheet of drywall every 7 minutes with no profit.

No way in hell that two (union) carpenters would even want to hang a sheet of drywall that fast. Why should they, all of them get paid by the hour not by the sheet (piece work) that would be 66 sheets per pair of carpenters per day (hard cost).

A 10% margin would be $24.24 per sheet glued and screwed

aint gonna happen......................!

On top of that the union has rules on how many sheets any one or two carpenters can hang a day and who can work with them. Sooooooooooooooooooo.

From my previous post:

I owned (past tense) a Union Construction business in Chicago up until the end of 2010.

Had a high of 42 employees total including office staff (during peak construction in the summer 2009)

The numbers in 2009 are self explanatory.

Here are (1 carpenter) "Union" costs 2009

Hourly wage        $40.77 per hour

Union fringe        $20.32 per hour

FICA                  $  3.12 per hour

Sut/Fut              $  3.28  per hour

Workers Comp    $  6.24  per hour

General liability  $    .63  per hour

Total Burden      $ 74.36  per hour

My overhead has went from 8% last year 2009 to over 22 % this year 2010 because of the drop in revenues.

So $74.36 x 22% OH = $16.36 per hour

Total Burden    $74.36

Overhead        $16.36

Total cost       $90.72 per hour

$90.72 x 8 hpd x 5 dpw x 52 wpy =

$188,697.60 per year to employ (1) union carpenter and remember this does not include any profit

Try selling one (1) Union Carpenter for a 10% margin at over $207,594.00 a year (2010)

These numbers are from 2009 since then they (unions) have had a raise June 1, 2010 and will recieve another raise this June 1, 2011. Anyone in business knows that your Workers comp/GL is based on your employees income.

Those costs in 2011 will be over $103.00 per hour with no profit. $103 x 40 x 52 = $214,240.00 to employ 1 Guy for 1 year with no profit included.

Its not like you can bargain with the Unions so I told them to go f%ck themselves and sold in late 2010.

Good luck Biatchez ........................!

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 20:17 | 956619 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

"Being" isn't illegal.  You stole their land, White Man.  

Give it back.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:17 | 956490 snowball777
snowball777's picture

And you think the aliens are to blame for that $7/hr?

What an ignorant tool of your corporate masters you are.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:20 | 956496 Michael
Michael's picture

You got the "corporate master" part right.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:25 | 956501 snowball777
snowball777's picture

You're the fool yelling at the wrong instigator, not me.

You want illegals gone? Enforce the law on those hiring them and drop the H1B visa limits.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 20:15 | 956610 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

Blame NAFTA for facilitating the theft of Mexican land and forcing them into the mad race to the sweatshop bottom.  They didn't choose to be wage slaves.

White Capital made that choice for them.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:47 | 956541 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

You are aware that since 1830 France has more or less ruled Algeria, right?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:52 | 956552 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

[duplicate deleted]

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 01:30 | 957133 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Holly shit. A negro from a gutter telling the world how to run their lives.

Good for Chinese, they do not accept POS ambassadors as one sent to France by Obama.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 20:01 | 956582 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture





You jsut know that one of these oligarch pricks is gonna stand up to the democracy groups and open fire. This is gonna be ugly when one them does

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:36 | 956158 Michael
Michael's picture

Add Russia to the list. I just heard something about them too.

The people of the world are completely fed up with all the police state bullshit.

I predict the US military industrial complex manufacturing racket is going to take a huge hit with peace breaking out all over the world, as a result of the peoples crack down on the police states everywhere, and the people begin to beat their swords into plowshares.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:42 | 956168 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The types of war these revolutions will hasten will not be spendy in the sense of needing lots of superfighters, stealth bombers, nuclear attack subs, and all that.  We are talking about more of a boots on the ground type of spending (and dying) that ain't popular among the electorate, or at least not for any length of time.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:47 | 956181 Michael
Michael's picture

Welcome to Egypt 2.0

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:41 | 956309 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I guarantee you if five or so million pissed off Americans rioted in Washington for a few weeks, the colostomy bag motherfuckers who make up our Federal Government would NOT step down.  We would have bullets flying and bodies everywhere.

Meanwhile, the MSM would help paint the picture that all two million killed belonged to a militia group in Michigan, were polygamist pedophiles, and were plotting to blow up a County Extension office somewhere in Indianna.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:00 | 956349 Michael
Michael's picture

You Know what the difference between the signs over and the signs over here are?

The signs over there say "Get Out".

The signs over here say "Bernanke, Get The Fuck Out"

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:07 | 956363 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Sadly, the only signs here say, "MacDonald's, 6 Miles.  Exit right on 163A".

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:15 | 956385 Michael
Michael's picture

Ron Paul Won CPAC Again for the Second Year in a Row!

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:18 | 956398 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:54 | 956565 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture


Donations from Dyncorp!  Handouts from Haliburton!  Bankroll from Blackwater!

ZeroHedge supports the Two-party corporate duopoly!

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:49 | 956185 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

What about North Korea, Michael? Last week they sent out those big "HELP!" signs to every embassy and they canceled their meetings with South Korea very abruptly. I am not sure about them, but they could start a war.

What about the timing? Are the American warships still in the area? Or did they move to Somalia/Red Sea?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:32 | 956287 Michael
Michael's picture

War not likely.  NK has a half dozen nukes. One shot off by them guarantees NK will not be inhabitable for a good number of years.

An attack on NK insures others around them will get what for.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 01:39 | 957147 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Michael, you know shit about N. Korea. 

NK is a China proxy. NK allows China, by a proxy, to threaten S. Korea and Japan and create a big headache to the USA.

 China will consider any attack on NK as the attack on China. America knows it.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:38 | 956301 HarrisonBergeron
HarrisonBergeron's picture


you have my vote for the best comment on here. That document is spot on.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:29 | 956003 Bearster
Bearster's picture

The world is going to rediscover that "free" and "democratic" are not synonyms.  Hitler was elected democratically.  As was the leadership of the failing West.

Free means that the government respects the inalienable individual rights of life, liberty, and property.  Democratic, well we will see what that means as Egypt may vote in sharia (definitely not freedom) or military rule or even invading Israel.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:44 | 956036 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Whats the old saying?....

Democracy is two wolves and sheep discussing dinner.

A republic is two wolves and a well-armed sheep discussing dinner.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:29 | 956142 Misean
Misean's picture

"Hitler was elected democratically."

I'm so sick of this completely falacious myth. Not that I'm a fan of the great god dumbocracy, but Hitler was appointed Chancellor by a beffudled President Bismark.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 20:02 | 956572 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

Seeing as Bismarck would have been about 130 years old at the time, befuddled is not the least of it.

Hitler's rise was facilitated by a host of Uncle Sam's corporations - Fox, Brown Brothers Harriman, Disney, Ford, etc. - and was enabled, politically, by the arch-reactionary Field Marshal Hindenburg.

Of course, his thugs were deployed throughout the 1920s by German Capital to prevent the social revolution.   They used assassinations, fire-bombings, and all types of thuggery - you know, the standard fare of Capitalist terror - to put down with violence what they could not otherwise suppress.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:43 | 956176 Michael
Michael's picture

I just don't see how the people will allow their hard earned freedoms to be taken away now that they have more powerful weapons than the governments? There is no defense against Twitter and Facebook.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:38 | 956305 Blankman
Blankman's picture

Mike,  I am hoping that was sarcasm.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:14 | 956376 Ese Pinche
Ese Pinche's picture

I hope it wasn't...  you might find it hard to believe Blankman but military might does not hold a candle to a motivated populous with a means to communicate truth.   This probably pisses off/frightens/offends a person who has been hoarding ammo for 3 years in anticipation of battling... who knows what.. during a prophecied end of the world scenario; I understand that.

But since this is a fact based forum, lets compare a recent regime change by the strongest military in the world... the US vs. Iraq to Egyptians vs. Mubarak...

Real peace is possible.. the proof is in our faces now.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:58 | 956344 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Twitter and Facebook did not help much in Iran.

Looks to me like we are going to get a bunch revolutions followed by the One Man, One Vote, One Time Islamist governments that will not be friendly to our country...

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:59 | 956347 snowball777
snowball777's picture

You are truly clueless; there are maybe a dozen data centers that would need to be unplugged to make social networks a distant memory, if TPTB decide it should be so.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:06 | 956367 Michael
Michael's picture

And if they did?

Google stock price goes to zero. Apple Zero. HP zero. Ebay zero. Amazon zero.  Microsoft zero. All of them ZERO!

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:17 | 956394 Ese Pinche
Ese Pinche's picture


The Powers That Were, Bitchez!... it has begun.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:25 | 956408 Michael
Michael's picture

I say go ahead, pull the plug on the Internet. Make my day!

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:49 | 956184 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


 George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush, is the Managing Director of the notorious investment bank, Brown Brothers, Harriman, from the 1920s through the 1940s and, like his father Samuel Bush, becomes a devoted lifelong minion of the Harrimans, one of the leading families in the U.S. ruling class.

In league with Averell W. Harriman and his younger brother, E. Roland Harriman, Bush serves as front man for and facilitates investment in and for a score of Nazi businesses.

Bush, the Harrimans, the Rockefeller family, Standard Oil, the Duponts, the Morgans and the Fords provide funding for the Hitler Project, financing Adolf Hitler's rise to power and the takeover of Germany starting in 1923.

This includes direct funding of the SS (Schutzstaffel or Black Shirts) and the SA (Sturmabteilung, storm troops or Brown Shirts).

The "approved" version of Hitler's rise to power has the German people, economically devastated by the First World War and the destructive terms of the Treaty of Versailles (written by the Dulles brothers, the Morgans and the Warburgs among others) embracing Hitler as their savior. In fact, it took some 300,000 SS and SA thugs, armed and financed by the Rockefellers, Fords, Bushes, Harrimans, Duponts et al to terrorize the German people into submission to the Nazis. These same thugs assassinated more than four hundred German politicians who had the courage to oppose Nazism.

The cash supplied by the American ruling class to the SS and SA is channeled through a variety of German companies by International Telephone and Telegraph (IT&T).

Virtually all of the weapons used by the SS and SA to terrorize the German people, primarily Thomson submachine guns and pistols, are supplied by the Rockefellers' Remington Arms and carried to Germany by the Harriman-controlled Hamburg-Amerika line fronted by George W. Bush's great grandfather, Herbert W. Walker.

The Rockefellers’ Chase Manhattan Bank serves as a major source of finance for the Nazis and, as the Nazis send Jews, Gypsies, socialists and other “sub-humans” to the gas chambers in accordance with the eugenics agenda promulgated by the American ruling class, closes the accounts of its Jewish customers. Chase will continue to serve as banker for the Nazis even after Germany declares war on the U.S.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:20 | 956254 walküre
walküre's picture

Germany couldn't repay the huge war debt to France and England other than by way of hyper inflation.

That meant that France and England couldn't repay the debt to US banks.

US banks financed Hitler to repair their balance sheets.

It's not rocket science to see through this mud no matter how much they attempt to distort historical facts.

WW2 lifted the US out of the Great Depression, the subsequent financial plans to rebuild Europe lifted the US to a broad financial wealth unmatched in the history of mankind.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:26 | 956272 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Germany couldn't repay the huge war debt to France and England other than by way of hyper inflation.


Huge war debt that was the direct consequence of the debt imposed on the French by the Prussians at the end of 1870 war.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:49 | 956324 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

You must have a gigantic ski jump in front of your face today, because every point sent your way is going completely over your head.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 07:39 | 957353 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

And gladly.

People cut history in segments to originate so called sources of trouble.

Starting from WW1 treaty is not enough, stuff happened before.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:20 | 956403 walküre
walküre's picture

The Alsace is German, mon ami.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:46 | 956319 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


 The U.S. is only a combatant nation in the Great War for a little over a year and plays a relatively small role militarily. Only 55,000 Americans, the vast majority of them working class conscripts, and therefore of no real value, are killed versus over thirty million Europeans.

The belated switch from weapons and finance supplier to both sides to combatant nation does, happily, give the U.S. a major role in drafting the Treaty of Versailles which imposes massive reparations payments, in gold, on Germany and sets drastic limitations on rearmament.

And who should be there, right in the thick of things, helping to draft the Treaty, but a stellar cast of Rockefeller-linked warmongers, merchants of death and profiteers including Max and Paul Warburg of Kuhn, Loeb, Rockefeller cousins and Nazi-lawyers-to-be John Foster and Allen Dulles and Thomas Lamont of J.P. Morgan. Joint Secretary of the Reparations Committee is none other than Jerome Davis Greene, an investment banker with lifelong connections to the Rockefellers via the Rockefeller Foundation, the Rockefeller Institute and his work as John D. Rockefeller's personal assistant.

The terms of the Treaty of Versailles deliberately create the financial disaster which will lead to the Second World War by setting German reparations at a level which cripples the new German republic.

The Treaty systematically bankrupts the German economy, resulting in massive devaluation of the German currency.

The Rockefellers and other members of the U.S. ruling class swoop in and pick up German companies and assets for a tiny fraction of their real worth. While the U.S. ruling class can find almost unlimited money to go on a shopping spree in Germany and then build up their operations in Germany as part of the Hitler war machine, they don't seem to have much cash to invest in the U.S., creating the climate in which the Great Depression ravages the U.S. and much of the rest of the world.

The Harriman family, in an arrangement so devious that it is still classified secret by the U.S. Government, somehow manages to acquire the Hamburg-Amerika line, one of the world's largest shipping lines, for almost nothing.

By amazing coincidence, Hamburg-Amerika's German bankers, who are intimately involved in the sale, are the same Warburg family involved in drafting the Treaty of Versailles and close associates of the Rockefeller/Harriman/Dulles axis. The convoluted financing was arranged by none other than Herbert W. Walker, great grandfather of George "I'm A Lyin' Guy" Bush.

The shipping line, under the control of the Harrimans and directed from the their New York headquarters by Prescott Bush, grandfather of George "I"m A Lyin' Guy" Bush, will play the pivotal role in the takeover of Germany by Adolf Hitler and the Nazis and, simultaneously, serve as a conduit for Nazi propaganda and Nazi spies infiltrated into the U.S. Hamburg Amerika will carry arms from the Duponts' Remington Arms to Hitler's 300,000 SA brownshirts, to carry out a campaign of terror, intimidation and assassination which will ultimately lead to Adolf Hitler taking power in Germany.

Another big beneficiary of the Treaty of Versailles is "Better Killing Through Chemistry" Dupont which not only made a fortune supplying armaments during the war but, in the economic wreckage created by the Treaty, was able to grab German chemical patents of almost inestimable value which allowed the company to expand its operations to become one of the world's largest chemical companies.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:18 | 956402 walküre
walküre's picture

The chemical patents were just a fraction of the IP theft committed during and after the war.


Fast forward... again the US is indebted beyond salvation today. No chance in hell to make good on its debts and as long as the propaganda holds, the people will play along with it.

As for the rest of the world though... one cannot be so sure anymore and the financial empire is old, tired, looks haggard and has been exposed beyond repair.

Is the cornered dog going to give up this time or will it attack once more?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 20:02 | 956586 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture


Sun, 02/13/2011 - 14:24 | 957825 caconhma
caconhma's picture


You mix historical facts with outright propaganda. Did you get your "facts" from Wikileak?

Let put the history into prospectives:

- First, the extermination gas-chamber was invented by Dr. Berg, a Soviet Jew working for NKVD (the Soviet State security). These gas-chambers were extensively used by Soviet NKVD to slaughter thousands of Soviet peasants. The "problem" with these gas-chambers was that it could slaughter too few people at a large expense of money and manpower. Consequently, Soviet dropped using gas-chambers since it was much easy and cheaper to sent people to concentration camps in Siberia where people were dying from starvation and diseases by millions and there was no need to bury them. As a matter of fact, NKVD had 13 major extermination camps and Jews were in charge of 11. Somewhere between 25 and 45 millions Soviets were slaughtered.

- At the end of the WWII, Soviets liberated the majority of Nazi concentration camps and claimed that Nazi slaughtered 6 millions Jews in concentration camps. There are no doubts Nazi killed a lot of Jews. This is the fact. But

-- Soviets stated that Nazi killed 6 millions of Jews in June 1944 or 11 months before the Nazi surrender. Question: How did Soviets know 11 months before the German surrender how many Jews would be killed?

-- Soviets never provided any evidence that these gas-chamber existed.

-- Later, even Zionist institutions admitted that the claims that Nazi used humans to make soap and lampshdes were not true.

- Nazi killed tens of thousands of Jews in "Babiy Yar" in Soviet Ukraine. Soviets killed tens of thousands Polish POWs and civilians in Katun. After the WWII, American starved to death close to 1.5 millions German POWs is American POW camps. Prior to using nukes in Japan, at the end of the WWII, the American were planning to gas Japan population leading to ~5 millions deaths by the Pentagon extimates. Note that the USA was/is a internationa agreement signatory prohibiting the use of chemical weapons.


The list of war crimes committed by Nazi, Soviets, American, and British is endless!



<These same thugs assassinated more than four hundred German politicians who had the courage to oppose Nazism.> Stalin did no use a word "assassinated". He used "liquidated".

It was the Nazi revolution an Germany. Any real revolution is very very bloody: French, Soviet, Nazi, etc.,

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 01:42 | 957150 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Please tell us, what shit good does Israel do for America?

Oh, I know. They control the WallStreet, the media, the Congress, and the White House.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:29 | 956004 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I think maybe these movements will end up with Islamic socialism. Maybe not so good.

That would be neither secular nor free market based. Both are bad news. Worse when put together.



Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:31 | 956007 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:50 | 956052 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Is that a new dance move?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:00 | 956080 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

 President Bouteflika = President Bootie-flick-a?

Just curious on the pronunciation...and yeah, I'm being bad.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:33 | 956013 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Throw all of the Corrupt Garbage out! EVERYWHERE!!!


There the corrupt garbage should be taken out.. here the corrupt garbage should be thrown out... EVERYWHERE!!! throw the Bankers out!

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:57 | 956187 Michael
Michael's picture

You know, it is not directly stated that the banksters are the ones under attack and the real losers in all this, but they are.

You know, that whole funding of both sides of the war and all that.

Maybe we should ask the JP Morg and the Goldgman Sac to fund our side of the war?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:37 | 956302 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

maybe people should rob JPM and GS to fund our war? fuck talking... less talking more gun play... 40 years of talking and peace not war and hug it out bullshit has allowed these fucks to run over my Country.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:43 | 956312 Blankman
Blankman's picture

JW - I don't know whether to love you or hate you but I enjoy the hell out of reading your posts.  

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:45 | 956317 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

in the end... it will be easy to figure out whos on yourside... becuase I will be next to you in the trenches. you can hate me when we are done ridding the Country of the these fucking bankers / lobbists / politicians who rob our Country BLIND!!!

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:50 | 956555 Julia
Julia's picture

Don't forget the big corporations that are just as complicit, JW.

Lockheed, GE, Monsanto, Halliburton, ADM, Chesapeake, et. al. are right in that fray with their corporate personhood and thievery.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:36 | 956019 mberry8870
mberry8870's picture

This explosion will be a bit more significant to the oil markets than Tunisia and Egypt.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:50 | 956049 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Yes, they supply pretty much oil and gas to the EU.

But the protest will be smothered. That government has to many resources which they can use to subsidise.

Also, the population isn't concentrated into big cities like Egypt and Tunisia.

I give it a 20/80 shot that government will fall.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:54 | 956063 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

So what, Algeria will print monies like the Bernanke?  Have at it, Bernanke can out gun any willy monie printer!

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:56 | 956069 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Honestly, I find it hard to believe these uprisings are about food. They are too organized and all happening at the same time.  I see a bunch of US stooges losing power in Islamic countries all at once.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:05 | 956095 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

If it is about food, why wouldn't it all happen at once?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:25 | 956135 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

Good point !

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:27 | 956227 Michael
Michael's picture

Have you not been paying attention?

This is where it all started Sept 24, 2010.

Justice for Khaled Said, End torture in Egypt

See also;

We are all Khaled Said Murder at 2:22

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:56 | 956071 MGA_1
MGA_1's picture

Hmm... I wonder, wouldn't happen immediately, but perhaps the middle east is going to reunify ?

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:01 | 956082 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

The Baathist dream, but not likely, not now not ever.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:39 | 956165 snowball777
snowball777's picture

The neocons as well. Hope you're right.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:53 | 956193 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Or just a rewind to that little "Caliphate" thingy that ruled the region for something like four centuries, and fell apart less than a hundred years ago.   

I'm sure the "Ottoman Empire" will never come back though, given China's unbeatable cost at furniture making.   And really, a big box furniture store chain that just sells ottomans?  They had a good run there, kudos for lasting literally centuries, but the market was going to broaden to include all kinds of furniture.   Their cult of the One True Furnishing has been replaced by newer, cooler, furniture pluralism.  You can't put that genie back in the bottle.   Take this 84 dollar chinese made office chair I'm sitting in now.   It's real comfortable, ergonomic even.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:15 | 956240 Michael
Michael's picture

Those "Caliphate" people and bankster overlords never imagined anything like the modern Internet in their time and what it could do to them.

Jay Rockefeller: Internet should have never existed

David Rockefeller confronted at Chilean Airport during vacations (ENG/SPA)

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:34 | 956292 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture

You should couch your language more carefully.

Sofa as I can see, the "Ottoman Empire" may well make a comeback, especially as Those Of A Certain Religion regularly execute poufs and others they deem inferior. In a democracy, the seat of power is the tyranny of the majority, and whoever chairs the populist group holds the reigns of power.

All we can do is lounge around and watch.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:26 | 956410 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

I may not agree with your taste in furniture...I prefer typing to the last, ass glued to this office chair until language fails...but I shall rhetorically defend your choice of lounge furniture to the death...the death of my pseudonym.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:48 | 956546 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

Like the Irish inability to fight the ECB, I feel left out with these furniture metaphors.


      Pat E O'furniture

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 21:54 | 956787 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture

Pat, once you people (my forebears from County Cork!) gave up on the PUNT, you lost the ability to PUN. 

I really enjoyed the PUNT - rhyming slang for "Bank Manager", I believe.......


spdrdr from Australia.

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 00:46 | 957080 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

We shall fight in the comments sections, we shall fight in flame wars, we shall fight even unto private email exchanges offline, and should our furniture metaphors disappear from the earth, for a thousand seconds it shall be remembered that this was our finest hour.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:57 | 956074 PeterSchump
PeterSchump's picture

France is next.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:56 | 956197 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Nope.  They get their government bene's regularly, and food remains a small enough percentage of their incomes.   It will take a few more years, a failure of the euro, something like that to get them riled up for more than a couple hours march.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 15:58 | 956075 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Armageddon was supposed to start in the Middle East.

2012 is right around the corner.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:00 | 956078 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

The bernank can fix this in like 15 minutes.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:02 | 956085 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Dropping bales of money on the protestors to squash them will be less expensive than smart bombing them soon.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:13 | 956112 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Laughing Out Loud.

Carpet bombing would be dropping actual carpets on them (Persian of course).

But yeah, drop so much money on everyone, the concept of money becomes absurd, thus making money and debt irrelevant. Then they give them the bad news, which is what we know already:

There is not enough of everything for everyone.


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:27 | 956132 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The 1% with 99% of the "wealth" need to learn how to share.  Their mommas never taught them.  They were too busy being socialistas and writing memoirs about their lovers.  There are plenty of goods to go around the world. 

We could feed all the hungry Americans, and we have enough houses for everyone.  We just have to stop being selfish and help everyone out.  Once we take the capital from the banks and unleash it on ourselves, we will have nothing to worry about. 

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:47 | 956177 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

This will be fun to debate a friend. 

I think in the short term you are probably correct. In the long term, no. 

If you understand the exponential effect, you know that we keep multiplying and multiplying inside a finite space with finite resources. The system of distributing goods and services as we currently do it demands growth in order to be able to pay off interest. But if we grow, we kill ourselves due to shortages and the toxins produced by fouling our nests. I ain't talking global warming or cooling. We can all agree on pollution fucking up our food and environment.

I don't think we can sustainably feed and house everyone. We sure can't to it up to US standards. Sustainable means, to me, not fouling the environment beyond the rate it can absorb the toxins we create/recover. We have painted ourselves into a corner letting our numbers expand this big and relying on techno farming to feed us. We are killing ourselves feeding our selves. We need to retool how we eat and drink and build in order to have a chance to take care of everyone. 

The collapse will probably be televised. One minute (11:59) before the last doubling in the Petri dish, everything looks just dandy. At 12:00 it all falls apart, goes waterfall, parabolic, etc.

In the biggest picture it is not just selfishness, it is math.

I don't bring up peak oil here (though relevant) because we don't need it to see the problem. Add that one in and you get to where I am going, faster.

Insert an insult here, cause that is what happens on these threads or it is not a "real debate." Mr. Hippy Head. There, how's that? 

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 16:51 | 956190 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Very good. I'm going to have to keep an (mutant) eye on you.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 22:08 | 956809 CD
CD's picture

The MsC has always been one to watch...

Just in case you are not familiar, here is a trooper who has been trying to spread this truth for a few decades now (alas, to too little avail) - Prof. Al Bartlett:

The delivery and concentrated truth was (to me) very addictive -- he says more in an hour than I learned in an entire semester of Ec 101.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:22 | 956260 Michael
Michael's picture

I just think we need to build more apple pie factories.

But in may areas you are absolutely right. A brick wall is always in our future.

The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (part 1 of 8)

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 17:58 | 956342 velobabe
velobabe's picture

i agree with you, missy! i just never did like to eat food. so when we are starved, my tummy is ready.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:00 | 956350 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

As accurate of a post as will be made all day. 

+ 6,899,549,924 (The worlds estimated population as of today)


"We need to retool how we eat and drink and build in order to have a chance to take care of everyone. "

This is the part of the movie where Mako shows up and points out that you neglected to mention that several billions must die in the retooling. 

"In the biggest picture it is not just selfishness, it is math." 

You are correct.  It is math.  The truth sucks sometimes doesn't it?


Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:19 | 956401 Michael
Michael's picture

Ron Paul Won CPAC Again for the Second Year in a Row!

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 18:35 | 956425 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I heard you the first time when you posted it under one of my comments that really had nothing to with Ron Paul or CPAC.  Now quit spamming my shit.  You're a good guy, and you post a lot of cool shit, but you are also a habitual thread hijacker; always jumping OT at the top of threads to promote your shit.  Now kindly fuck off.

Sat, 02/12/2011 - 19:28 | 956504 Michael
Michael's picture

Sorry. I'll try not to get too excited.

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