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The Amount of Radioactive Fuel at Fukushima DWARFS Chernobyl
Science Insider noted yesterday:
The Daiichi complex in Fukushima, Japan ... had a total of 1760
metric tons of fresh and used nuclear fuel on site last year,
according to a presentation by its owners, the Tokyo Electric
Power Company (Tepco). The most damaged Daiichi reactor, number 3,
contains about 90 tons of fuel,
and the storage pool above reactor 4, which the Nuclear
Regulatory Commission's (NRC's) Gregory Jaczko reported yesterday had
lost its cooling water, contains 135
tons of spent fuel. The amount of fuel lost in the core melt
at Three Mile Island in 1979 was about 30 tons; the Chernobyl reactors
had about 180 tons when the accident occurred in 1986.
And see this.
That means that Fukushima has nearly 10 times more nuclear fuel than Chernobyl.
It also means that a single spent fuel pool - at reactor 4, which has lost all of its water and thus faces a release of its radioactive material - has 75% as much nuclear fuel as at all of Chernobyl.
However, the real numbers are even worse.
Specifically, Tepco very recently transferred many more radioactive spent fuel rods into the storage pools. According to Associated Press, there were - at the time of the earthquake and tsunami - 3,400 tons of fuel in seven spent fuel pools plus 877 tons of active fuel in the cores of the reactors.
That totals 4,277 tons of nuclear fuel at Fukushima.
Which means that there is almost 24 times more nuclear fuel at Fukushima than Chernobyl.
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Straw man much? lol... and I didn't junk you. That was pretty funny, actually.
Matte,
"Straw man much? lol"
Everything I know about strawman arguments, I learned from my dear Alinsky-type friends, who used to use them very effectively.
"That was pretty funny, actually."
Someone with a refined sense of humor, we'll get along just fine...LOL.
But yes, I do believe there is very little that needs governmental regulation. Our books of regulation are more voluminous than our tax codes...which nobody argues is exactly svelte.
I don't believe hair weavers, finger nail painters, tanning salons, interior designers etc. need it anymore than a another trade...though an argument could be made favorable to me on painting your house purple...but that's a matter of taste not usefulness ;-)
Could we not say the financial industry is one of the most heavily regulated industry's in the country?...and yet, every five to ten years it "melts down" despite these reams of regulations placed on it....so what good are they?
Regulator's allow nuclear power plants to be built around known fault lines...do you believe this is sound regulation?
Regulation in this country has become little more than a protection racket run by the government...when you sue someone for something you do not sue for damages caused by the regulator or the regulation do you? Why would this be? You do however sue whoever caused the damages to you.
If a tradesman has independent certification or has a known history of professionalism in his/her craft the point of regulating & licensing him/her is just what exactly?
Thank you, nmewn, for calling my attention back to this thread. My apologies for the lapse.
It is a pleasure to be engaged so astutely by one so informed, sir. This reminds me of the old days on uesnet. lol... Yes, I think we'll do fine, and it is my pleasure to make your acquaintance. As to your comments above:
I am new here as a commenter, though I have followed the dialog for years. So I am not surprised, nor put off, that you seem to have misunderstood the rationale behind the comment I made to you.
Please let me first state that I completely agree with you that regulation has entirely failed, and further that its very rationale for existence in its current incarnation is nonexistent. As you said, it accomplishes nothing so why have it?
This state of affairs is as was entirely intended by by those monied interests who bribed our elected officials to hollow out, emasculate and consign to astroturf status every authority that was ever designed to do the job of regulation. But this does not mean that the idea of regulation has failed, imo.
I think that the problem is more clearly stated by saying simply that our republic has failed. Those words are difficult for me to say. They make my heart grieve. But, I believe they are true.
Fast forward perhaps twenty years: There you and I sit at some place that may remind us of Philadelphia Hall. I would argue the need for regulation in affairs that concern national security, public health and the public finance, but not much more.
There is much I could say about this, but let me conclude by saying that I think our founders had much right. I do think though that we could certainly do better given their template and 250 years of hind site upon our history.
One last thing: I would also argue in favor of the death penalty to anyone attempting to bribe, blackmail, or in any way suborn our elected officials.
It's my pleasure to make your acquaintance as well.
It turns out...after strawman this and regulation causing melt down that...we aren't too far apart.
I never said regulation = meltdown. I said...in my own unique style of writing...regulation is an imperfect thing that seeks perfection, which cannot be.
"But this does not mean that the idea of regulation has failed, imo."
I believe less is more. There are perhaps 18 things that Congress is permitted to do by law.
The very act of regulating something takes growth in government in order for it to be accomplished. One new law = two times the regulation one encountered before. These are the acts of socialists and statist's. People may say they are capitalists or freedom loving but they are not, for once they cede control over themselves to another they have diminished themselves. We used to call it servitude.
A welcome aboard gift for you;
http://www.constitution.org/law/bastiat.htm
"I think that the problem is more clearly stated by saying simply that our republic has failed. Those words are difficult for me to say. They make my heart grieve. But, I believe they are true."
I'm not so sure it has. I have never lost my faith in the people to be informed and come to the correct conclusion. This process is what is engaged in here at ZH everyday.
It is my belief that the mischievous act of calling this country a democracy that has failed...people are waking up to many things.
They are waking up to the fact that their children have been poorly educated by a structure adopted from the Prussian's which was not meant to educate but to provide "good citizens" and vooorkers...LOL.
They are waking up to the incestuous relationship between Wall Street and DC that uses their retirement accounts and taxes for their benefit alone instead of the peoples. This particular thing has taken time for most to see clearly due to the blocking mechanism's of the creation of the Fed and the indoctrination of Keynes theory into the minds of what were said to be the most learned.
Many things need to be unwound that have transpired long before we were born...I believe that process is underway.
Take care.
nmewn
You have more faith than I. I hope you are right. I will paste this dialog into my journal and consider all this more fully.
Please count me as your friend on this board.
My humble thanks for your gift.
Be well.
"Please count me as your friend on this board."
I will...and count me as yours.
I have found many here...but most of them don't know it yet ;-)
"My humble thanks for your gift."
It was written during a remarkable period in history by a man with impeccable logic and principle that withstands the test of time.
I hope you enjoy it.
SeeYa
How's that a straw man? It's certainly funny in a sick sort of way; most people think highly regulated, usually by government = safe. The FDAs Vioxx thing comes to mind.
The joke is on us.
It's a straw man because it sets up meltdown = failure of regulation, hence regulation is useless. The truth is otherwise.
Nevertheless it was a joke well told, and I give points for that.
A straw man on a stalking horse. Quite a mental image.
or in this case, a strawman on a pale horse, and hell followed with him
The Japan crisis cannot be compared to Chernobyl. In Chernobyl the fuel was blown into the atmosphere. That has not happened in Japan, and is unlikely to happen.
What do you think is going to keep this out of the ocean? Out of the ground water?
Precisely. Water run off into the ocean bays so seafood and seaweed will become affected. They'll need to get drinking water from above sea level. It's all so sad :(
TexDenim, this is incorrect. We do not know the odds at this point, with the situation spiraling so far out of control, and it is hugely irresponsible for you to make such statements.
Furthermore, your post perfectly illustrates the overwhelming ignorance of risk that makes our species completely and utterly incapable of handling something as dangerous as nuclear power responsibly.
A proper evaluation of risk requires that we not only account for the probability of an event, but the consequences if that event does in fact occur.
Even a 0.001% chance of the Fukushima crisis escalating needs to be treated with the utmost seriousness, given the health risks it could present to hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Japanese citizens, particularly if winds blow that radioactivity to Tokyo.
Wasn't it Rumsfeld or Cheney (not sure here) who said just a one percent chance of being attacked by an enemy must be given a 100% effort to defend and deter it?
So why isn't the same attitude taken with the possibility of nuclear accidents in relationship to the worst case scenario? We have now had Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and Japan in the span of 30 plus years. Are we still saying the chance of an accident like this is infinitesimally small? Really?
Becuase we are burdened with people in power that love to hear themselves talk tough and/or clever with no intention of backing it up. They have no loyalty, no sense of honor. Only a sense of "agenda" and "what's in it for them". We're populated with people who want to prove themselves to be better, stronger, faster, than the other guy with no sense of what it means to be a part of something; a unit.
I'm costantly perplexed by this attitude, for all the posturing that is needed to prove your status as El Guapo, the same amount of energy could have already solved the problem if it were put to use in a unified effort. This is why I prefer to work in small groups and/or solo when I develop my software...because there's always one guy.. ONE GUY.. who rides this pony with pride and whose teeth I want to kick in on a regular basis becuase he does more harm than good and the software ends up being a mash of "his software" and "our software"; which is doomed to failure. Doomed to failure.
Um, people, these reactors are inherently different than Chernobyl because it is a differenty type of reactor. That being said, the end result is all relative: it has and will lay barren large tracts of land asides from the human cost.
The fact that there is more fuel at Fukishima is inopposite. that does not automatically correlate to all burning up and impacting Japan. (atleast we hope not). But it hasnt yet, anyway.
So you're saying that when we offered to help on the condition that they dismantle the plant, that this was some-how not relative to my comment?
let's be clear. Radioactive material has a cumulative effect. The more of it, the worse the results. No offense, but I don't give a shit if they are different types of reactors, the fact remains that there are more reactors going tits up in Fukushima than in Chernobyl; and I don't know about you, but I'm not too fond of ulitmatums that further an agenda of "nuclear power reduction" at the cost of human lives. That's fucking evil any way you look at it. My comment stands and I hope you enjoyed that pony ride.
Citations:
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_646444.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
So what exactly is your point? Should they shut down all nuclear plants and take down all their industries and starve to death? Show me where any other source of energy can produce the same amount of electricity and is safer. Why don't you live without electricity for a year and come back and let us know how you fared?
Pointed to this twice already in other threads but since you ask:
http://www.kitegen.com/en/?page_id=7
Extracts more energy from the no-fly zone above a typical nuclear power plant than what the plant itself produces, *much* cheaper, renewable, clean and risk-free.
That wasn't my point at all. My point was that Obama's administration was trying to screw them. "We'll help you, but you have to bow to our agenda of no nuke plants". He placed his agenda before saving the lives of citizens of an allied country. Given what's transpired after the fact, he could well be just as culpable for any hazards that blow in our direction.
"We have now had Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and Japan in the span of 30 plus years. Are we still saying the chance of an accident like this is infinitesimally small? Really?"
A great point that I will be reiterating . . .
You make an important point. It would take only a small amount of editing and your comment would apply equally well to fiat currency.
If you think you r going to be able to go within 20 miles of Fukushima in the next 20000 years and not have 2 headed offspring, then you and your tits are sweet and trusting or i want whatever your smoking.
i dont think its a global disaster but for japan this could tip them over the edge of solvency, with their debt - already 1/3 of their tax revenue is on interest payments.
I guess you've never heard of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
U talkin to me?? Your name tells me you are japanese.
Perhaps u smoulder with pride at the cleanup after the bombs.
i guess u must be otherwise your post makes no sense rather than a tiny bit of sense.
Do you mean this fukushita place will be cleaned up like hiroshima after it got nuked?
Is that what u mean? If so u have not understood the situation here...
A bomb is rocks and particles, messy but this is totally different. Its not the end of the world but this place will have a radioactive sludge metres deep even if it doesn't get into the water table at fuku - chernobyl didn't do that , there they dug underneath and poured in tons of concrete.
Its going to be worse than chernobyl, even b4 the info in the article, and there they are considering spending $600million on another concrete sarcophagus over the core - won't be getting back there for a while....
"...but for japan this could tip them over the edge of solvency, with their debt - already 1/3 of their tax revenue is on interest payments." ------- Force Majeure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure
Look on the "bright side"...95% of their debt is held by locals...if a large enough portion of said locals have no kids and happen to suffer an untimely demise...they're off the hook by that much, right?
Sick, doubtless, but true.
dbl entry
All of the old folks thought they were working/saving for a comfortable retirement (investing in bonds) when in reality they were just paying a "tax" (gov't default). And when I say old folks I mean that Japan is a giant geriatric ward. Anyone watching the video clips coming out of Japan has probably figured that one out.
By the way an interesting side issue emerges about the projected new generation of genetically modified babies with two heads : will they be more intelligent than their one headed brothers? Also, on the same trend of thought would a two dicked teen-ager have a head start on his one dicked teen-aged mate in seducing his future girl friends. Given the current sexual trends... It is a true final fantasy that will surely instill itself in the japanese erotic animation of the years to come. That is if Japan is still in holy motion as part of planet earth. I hope my delirious post does not upset the normally sensitive readers by its delusional slant.
I can see entirely new worlds of Hentai opened by this thing. Brilliant.
The Jawoyn would make fermented brews and smoke strange herbs in an effort to appease Bula... all to no avail.
Their special dances and offerings of their women did not sway the isotopes.
More dancing!! More women!! Keep up the faith!
As neither will tears and/or prayers.
Those fuel rods are very toxic and if this is correct then its now even more obvious that this place will be a no-go zone for thousands of years...
For at least 40,000 years before the arrival of Europeans, large areas in the lush, verdant region bounded by what we know as the East, West and South Alligator River systems, a vast area of wild terrain now encompassed within the Kakadu National Park, were no-go zones for the local inhabitants.
Tribes such as the Jawoyn people related stories of Bula, a creation ancestor who lived beneath the land and who, if disturbed, caused widespread sickness among the people. In modern times, scientists have correlated much of this area with uranium deposits. that area has 80% of australia's uranium reserves under the now national park...
so what?, everywhere has them now, its what it will take to keep the lights on... cheap, yuh?
Considering Japan has no other source of energy, they should just shut down all nuclear reactors and sit in the cold dark nights and shot down all of their industries. They can become a nation of 110 million rice farmers and fishermen living in wooden houses and use wood and whale oil for lighting and heat.
Elwood: "Oh no."
Jake: "What the fuck was that?"
Elwood: "The motor. We've thrown a rod."
Jake: "Is that serious?"
Elwood: "Yup."
Gonna mash the junk button on myself about 50 times. This is so not funny.
Is Mt Fuji at risk?........
http://nakedempire.wordpress.com/