Up, Up, And Away - No Stopping Gold As It Hits $1085/Ounce
Get those SDRs ready Ben.
h/t Client #10
(2 votes)
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George Washington02/09/2010 - 00:06
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Reggie Middleton02/09/2010 - 05:12
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madhedgefundtrader02/09/2010 - 07:22
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on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:17
#118466
I've heard many times that, of all things that could worry the Fed, the gold price is the most dangerous. Forgive my noobness. Can someone tell me why that is?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:22
#118481
Gold is a store of wealth. People flee to it in economic turmoil. Whether deflation or stagflation, inflation or hyperinflation it will hold its value better than anything. Essentially holding gold is a short on all currency.
Good stuff about gold here: http://fofoa.blogspot.com/
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:23
#118483
Don't think of it as the price of gold going up. Think of it as the value of the dollar going down. Then you will see why the Fed fears gold as the price (value) of gold exposes the almost worthlessness of the fiat $FRN.
To put it another way. An ounce of gold buys about the same amount of goods at it did in 1913, but one dollar now compared to 1913 shows how horribly the Fed has managed our currency.
Central banking, the real "barbarous relic".
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:52
#118554
Gold is up today big in all the major currencies. That tells me people are finally starting to realize all paper money is crap. It's just that some crap smells worse than other crap, but it's crap non the less.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:04
#118736
Indeed, as noted by India's finance minster in following FT piece:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0eaa4a80-c856-11de-a69e-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1
But, okay, fiat collapses and gold soars. Then what? Much negotiation, during which (or after which!) the most powerful prevail.
In a world where money no longer defines power, what does? In a word: Guns.
Ergo, the future belongs to the best-armed.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:27
#118776
Money has been in use much longer than guns.
Ergo ... he who has the gold makes the rules.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 18:41
#119098
"Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws." — Mayer Amsched Rothschild
Gold is money, yet can not be 'printed', so the private central bank controller like the Rothschild, Warburgs and Rockefellers hold many gold bars yet hate when others lose faith in the FIAT currency they produce.
So yes, the central banks HATE gold as it interferes with their FIAT (fradulent) paper money scheme.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:23
#119199
But I can kill you with my gun and take your gold :)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:09
#118973
The future belongs to those as can feed themselves.
The Mongol Horde came looking for food. You don't hear too much from them anymore; they all became farmers.
cougar
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:40
#119014
+ 1 organic seed packet
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:28
#119202
The idea behind your comment has always brought me back to "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
But I can still kill you and with my gun, and steal the food you labored so hard to grow...for me. Hypothetically speaking of course.
on Wed, 11/04/2009 - 10:03
#119535
not if you can't find where i'm growing my food ;)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 23:50
#119317
India is no match for the Fed.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:39
#119209
People as in the Chinese. Because your average American has no clue what the hell is going on. But yes some people are realizing that paper money is as good as the TP they wipe there ass with.
on Wed, 11/04/2009 - 03:41
#119403
If you send me all your money I'll send you all me TP.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:09
#118602
Central banking, the real "barbarous relic".
Ouch! thats going to leave a scar.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:20
#118630
Gold is the canary in the mine. When gold looks its strongest its because the dollar is at its weakest.
Gold is money. I know some doubt that, but central banks are buying gold for a reason, and its isn't because it is shiny. Just because you can't buy groceries with it, doesn't mean it isn't money. After all, when is the last time you bought groceries with treasury bonds?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:19
#118986
Hoarding gold is a hedge against the collapse of the fiat money Ponzi scheme. If fiat money is negotiated away in some future round of economic crises, then whoever is left holding real gold will have real money. Period.
If they have to re-issue US currency, they will issue against gold and real estate, and your paper money will get $1 re-issued on $100. And no you don't own your home, the bank does (unless you are paid off) and they will take it back when the time comes.
Thus went the Wiemar Republic. Adolph Hitler then rode that wave as far as licensed insanity would allow.
cougar
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:33
#119009
Right. But it is shiny.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:07
#118862
That's as much a religious statement as anything. The ugly fiat currency has been inflated in a hidden tax, but it is hardly worthless. I can go out and buy something with my dollars right now. Try that with your gold. Oh, you had to go to a coin shop and pay some guy a fee to convert it? Oh, and there's a 15% collectibles tax? Oh, huh.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 19:35
#119132
You'll buy less and less with those dollars as time goes by. If you think the place to do your trades is a coin shop, you don't know the business of gold arbitrage. And if you are paying some 15% tax you are doing something wrong. Very wrong.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:45
#119214
As needed, and as the Fiat travels the path to ZERO one can:
A) Established a relationship with a reputable coin shop who knows how to circumvent the tax man.
B) Not be an idiot and NOT liquidate all at once so as to become low hanging fruit for the tax man. As with any investing strateeeegery.
C) Easily liquidate Rands, Eagles, Panda and Maple Leafs on Ebay, craigslist, or the like for well over spot with 0 tax liability.
That soda will cost me less of my labor than your 1.29 NOW dollars. In fact the silver dimes I set aside in the 70's have been a far better investment than all of my IRAs, 401K's, and FRN savings. In real, not nominal terms.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:16
#119195
$ no = ~$0.05 in 1913.
Saw picture the other day, taken in a diner in 1940 with the menu in the background.
Hot Dogs $0.10
Root Beer $0.10.
Amazing. Really begins to hit home.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:27
#118490
This was mentioned by Greenspan in a thesis on gold written prior to him becoming the fed. It is because gold cannot be artificially created in any way and therefore can keep money "honest". The fed can go on a printing spree, and as long as it is coordinated with the printing of other fiat currencies at the same time, no one would notice, except the price of gold because unlike other commodities that can be produced in increased numbers due to the resulting increase in production, very little additional gold can be extracted. Therefore the fed has to do all that is possible to control gold's price in order to keep the perception of his currency being also finite.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:38
#119013
...and hence the globally synchronized "lease and short" scheme. All CBs, as members of this club, are obliged to do what they can, when they can, to stifle gold's advance. I am therfore shocked at such a huge purchase of gold by any one Central Bank. I guess India gets kicked out of the club, if they were ever in it.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:29
#118493
Gold is solid money...the dollar is basically worthless paper backed by nothing. The Fed is devaluing the dollar by flooding the world with it, thus the price of gold in dollars is going up.
Gold threatens the Fed because it represents purchasing power that they can't control like they can the dollar. If we were on a gold standard, the Fed would become unnecessary, hence it threatens their existence. The Fed was created specifically to get rid of the gold standard, in order to finance continuous government expansion.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:50
#118546
Can you go the store and use gold to buy goods? GOLD IS NOT SOLID MONEY. It is a store of value. End of story.
Faustian....I generally agree with a lot of what you say. I am not trying to start anything.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:54
#118559
most merchants would probably not accept gold
but gold is currency in settlement of international
obligations....so we can say that it is solid
or perhaps elite money.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 22:06
#119229
I will most definitely accept gold/silver...perhaps even beer for my work.
Shameless plug: Anyone need a network engineer?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:11
#118605
true. although i once paid an electrician with a small 10g bar of gold. did not have sufficient cash at home at that moment (and had probably run out of checks), offered him the 10g which was valued a bit more than the $ for his services, and he took it (as well as my word re its value). i'm guessing it was the first and only time he's been paid in bullion.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:12
#118607
it's not solid money here yet. But for thousands of years it was. The fiat money experiment is a blip on the timeline.
In fact in some places it is being used as money...somebody recently posted a link to a car dealer in FL who is taking gold as down payment.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:38
#118681
Until it is legal currency, I am not a buyer of gold. Do you actually expect it to become LEGAL currency here in the US? I am sure there will be an underground network of people who accept it....but in the end...it is still just a store of wealth until it can be exchanged for goods or services.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:48
#118698
Curb your risk, that is the name you have chosen for yourself. I am not trying to be a bitch, but helpful. Is is possible you are being inflexible when you say you will not get any gold until it is LEGAL currency. Curbing your risk means being flexible, looking at trends, and understanding that situations are socially constructed. It does not matter if I think gold is lovely, money, or not, the rest of "thems" do. There is historical precedent for it as you know.
To curb your risk, it would be good to have some. The world may drift this way for a time, and then drift out of it. I dread paying the price I currently see, plus commission, so I will watch a bit, but I will keep phoning my dealer.
Platinum and silver launched with it at 10:30.
Realistically, if the price is here now, it will be here again. May take a bit, but it will be here.
Peace Fed Clown Benanke avatar wearing boy....
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:55
#118720
There's nothing stopping you from creating your own currency, you just have to convince somebody that it's worth something.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:07
#118858
@MsCreant Baby, leave the clown alone. If he wants to hold on to some worthless paper with ink on it that's his problem.
Where is Sergey? FREE Sergey.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 18:46
#119105
Sorry, not true. There most certainly is someone stopping you from issuing your own currency. Its the US government. The one way to guarantee the feds at your door is to start coining 'money' with face amounts on it. Just ask the many people who have tried that over the years and been taken down by the feds. Google "Liberty Dollar raid" to get a taste of your tax dollars at work...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 19:44
#119140
I like to think that my intellect and labor are my currency. While I am forced to exchange this intellect and labor for fiat dollars I am not forced to keep the fiat dollars as a store of wealth, so I exchange some of them for gold and silver.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:59
#118845
Yeah, wait until you have to trade 4,000 Federal Reserve Notes for an ounce of gold. Brilliant strategy.
Why do you need to have "legal" currency to buy stuff? Ever heard of barter and trade? Are you really this clownish?
I am Chumbawamba.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:54
#119039
Here ends this lesson. From the book of Chumbawamba
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 18:55
#119112
exactly. how is a paper dollar any more "money'ish' than a lump of gold. Its what one puts value in. And people have valued gold for thousands of years. Not so much with FRN's not backed by commodity items whether its gold, silver, tobacco, or what have you.
If its not money why do US military fighter pilots have qtr ounce british sovereigns in their survival packs? If its so not money, there would be stacks of Ben Franklins instead - but no, its gold. Why? Because at all times, in all places, gold is money. Always and everywhere. And if you think that the gold will be worthless and not worth anything then what the hell are dollars worth then? And to the people that say bullets are better, I disagree. With bullets you would have to find someone that wants ammo and has exactly what you want. Unfortunately for those naysayers, history has proven the utility and value of gold across the ages at all times in all places during peace AND war.
Just because the current order or status quo lose their position and there are issues until the new order is figured out there will still be the need for commerce. There will still be people who wish to trade services. And gold will be there for them to conduct their business.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:56
#119223
FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES ARE NOT MONEY. They are merely a claim on money. In this case, they are a claim on the purchasing power of that note, which is virtual money, backed by the US government or whatever.
In effect, US Dollars (Federal Reserve Notes) have zero intrinsic value, other than the paper they offer, which if pulped and reconstituted might be useful, whereas gold, which is also a commodity, has several uses, not the least of which is an additive in an alcoholic beverage.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:03
#119149
Legal tender is for acceptance of debt. If someone is indebted to you, you must accept FRNs as a method of repayment. Which if you think about it actually makes sense to have such a system in a country.
Aside from debt repayments, you can transact in whatever your chumbawambian head desires.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:23
#118645
Can you go to the groocery store and buy goods with treasury bonds? No.
Well, what do you call that stuff filling up central bank vaults if not money? Anything sitting in a central bank vault is money.
Don't confuse money with currency. You can't buy groceries with gold only because the government doesn't allow it.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:30
#118779
Neither stocks.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:42
#118805
Actually there is no law against it. You can buy goods and services from another party if they accept your payment in metals. They may prefer payment in paper but you don't know until you ask.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:45
#118937
People pay with gold for used cars. What seller wouldn't accept 4 oz of gold for a car worth $4000 ?
I know I would. Gold can be used to buy anything that's actually paid for and does not have a financing issue at a bank somewhere. So as long as no banks are involved, gold will do just fine as form of payment.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 19:25
#119127
I have accepted gold twice as payment for legal services ( back when it was in the 400s )
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:01
#118847
The government can go fuck all. The reason you can't buy groceries with it is because you haven't found a store that will take it in exchange for their goods. Yet. Just give it time.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:20
#118987
Bob Dance Auto Merit Island Florida, takes gold for cars,,the dynamic is changing..
http://www.bobdance.com/index.htm
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:09
#119151
Think back for a second to the dynamic of buying groceries.
You pick out stuff you want, the proceed to a friendly cashier, who is most likely a student working part time. Accepting paper money is easy, so is credit/debit cards - even less work involved.
How about gold? You suddenly have to retrain everyone to be a goldsmith, how to recognize which gold you're being given.
For example, be that gold deposit certificates the cashier would not have a problem.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 23:29
#119293
not really. 1 troy oz is 1 troy oz. A few simple tests can validate.
counterfeits? Meh. FRNs are counterfeit every day.
You are not sure from day to day what the tru value of FRN's are from the counterfeit monopoly.
on Wed, 11/04/2009 - 18:22
#120349
Gold coins for the most part have cerated edges, so people would not shave off the gold, this was called clipping,thats where the term came from. The next question would be,,why is the government going to the added expense of edge markings on coins of no value... Answer....It's a con
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:34
#118671
Gold is at all times money...real gold that is. Paper gold (gold derivatives) has been estimated to be leveraged as high as 80:1 physical. When the equities selloff finally gets underway, the panic to settle world-over in dollars will take these gold derivatives with it...and the gold price will collapse in spectacular fashion. Beware, real gold takes strong hands...and there will be far too little to be had soon enough.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:03
#118852
Wrong. The price of physical and paper gold will simply diverge. Real gold will be worth much more than paper gold, which will be worth what it is printed on.
Do you think someone would be stupid enough to trade their gold for the paper price when all paper assets are crumbling around them? Only the stupidest amongst us, certainly.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:23
#118991
It's like this,
If someone breaks into your house do you want a certificate for a gun?, or the real thing.... Gun control=sharp eye and steady hand.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 22:01
#119225
Well, damn, if that isn't the finest analogy I've ever read.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 22:18
#119236
+1 Trillion.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:07
#119191
No chubaca, you're wrong. When the equities selloff occurs, gold price on the open markets is going to collapse due to the unwinding of mega-gold derivatives along with all others. Real gold you buy from the coin and bullion dealers will suddenly be unavailable at any price. The dollar has a long, long way to go and will likely rebound significantly in the short term. Buying opportunities for gold lie ahead, as India is entering a crisis over food. imlencho mofo
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:46
#118811
Gold cannot be exchanged for food here in the US because we have to use USD, and have been conditioned not to know that those Federal Reserve notes are just promises to pay a debt. Only money can cancel a debt, not more debt.
Gold is REAL money, not just legal tender that we use as a means of exchange. While you are correct that WE cant use gold to buy groceries, what is it that folks in Zimbabwe use to buy groceries? Is it their fiat currency or is it gold? I'm pretty sure it is gold because when confidence is lost in whatever currency is used as a means of exchange, everything reverts back to GOLD because GOLD IS MONEY.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:41
#118930
Outlaw said ...
Gold cannot be exchanged for food here in the US because we have to use USD,
I would disagree with that statement ... my suggestion is forget the person behind the register and talk to the manager of that store ... you may find that he/she would be open to such a payment idea. Although to be more practical SILVER may be a better source of payment .... just historically speaking.
But it may be too soon for such radical thinking.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:46
#118814
Some countries you can. It's typically North American thinking that one would assume otherwise.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:57
#118840
Dude, you are a clown, as your graphicon implies. What part of "Gold is Money" do you not get? I always see you chiming in with your stupid anti-gold remarks. Get a clue.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:36
#119011
Except that it ain't -- money, that is. I like gold, own gold, want more gold, but it ain't got the attribute of currency, so it ain't money. It do got the magnificent store of value function. And that's all I need it for while the paper ponzi scheme implodes.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:55
#119041
You know this whole "is gold money?" argument is a bit tiresome. Thousands of pages have been written about it in academia. The fact is that a medium of exchange is now, and has always been, what two parties agree to use as such. The fact that some disagree about the actual attributes of money has led them to use terms like "money-like", "money things" and "money-ish."
Something tells me that in a poop storm, when you offer your gold for corn, the farmer selling it won't give a damn about gold's utility as a store of value or a measure of account. If he doesn't sell you the corn because he's too concerned with an arcane argument over what constitutes real money, I bet you'll get your corn within an hour from a wiser farmer. The not-so-wise farmer's going to be left with his stack of American Economic Reviews, some really healthy stools, and a lot of bored people who are forced to hear his economic babblings.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 18:33
#119091
"The not-so-wise farmer's going to be left with his stack of American Economic Reviews, some really healthy stools..."
If it makes you feel any better about the dumb farmer #1, if he continuously eats corn that hasn't gone thru the nixtamal process (releasing vitamins and nutrients), he will succumb to pelagra, a rather nasty malady. But I suppose he can use that stack of American Economic Reviews to wipe his backside when the diarrhea hits.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:46
#119176
According to a guest on Bloomberg Radio yesterday (sorry i didn't catch the name) over 3/4 of the economic and finance academic publications are controlled by the FED. Pimm Fox seemed to agree with this assertion. So expect MOST academic publications to support the FED view regardless of veracity.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:28
#119204
Let the delusional go by....
Why do you burn calories on this......
Let me explain it to you...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 18:31
#119086
Thought experiment:
One can deposit gold bullion at a bank and then write checks against the value of the gold. This would be accepted…no, preferred…on a global basis with respect to transactions.
Now, one can deposit dollars (or whatever currency) and write checks against the account. This would be accepted locally. If the currency is lousy (dollar, in this case), then one has to convert to another currency or widely accepted storage of value…gold is one good choice.
Tie a currency to the value of gold, and that currency is golden.
End of story.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 18:47
#119106
Gold is money and feel free to go to Europe, Asia, Russia, etc and you can VERY EASILY exchange it for their local goods exchange FIAT paper scheme. Fact is, many retailers in Europe and Asia WILL accept gold directly, it is within the USA that the citizens are mainly kept clueless about gold. You can also walk into banks in Vienna, China and other countries and buy gold from the bank directly. The USA has a Mint that produces gold (and silver) coins, yet the banks do not sell gold over the counter like in other countries. Why?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:33
#119168
Gold is REAL MONEY its againt the law in the United States for use in any business transaction. Gotta protect the Fiat. Pre 1933 gold was used as a alternative currency at many retailers. Soon it will be again :)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:51
#119217
Heh. Like it or not it's already the Global Reserve Currency. Just ask any Arab, Chinese, or Indian banker.
If things get bad enough you will be using PMs in direct trade...for beer, bread, bullets.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:59
#118730
It's funny that people that scream about dollars being worthless are the same people that scream about FED purchasing crapload of mortgages.
FOR ONCE! USD is actually backed by something.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:04
#118854
Backed by an asset declining in value. Yeah, that's solid.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:48
#118940
What's the delinquency rates on mortgages .. and rising?
The "asset" behind the mortgage is worthless unless we're talking land, land and land.
Government took poisonous pills from the bank and will choke on them.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 18:37
#119090
It is still an asset that is worth something, it has something physical attached to it as opposed to nothing before, as in absolutely nothing.
think of it as a massive spike towards improvement, with a bit of degregation.
For the slow people, just to reiterate. Try comparing a promise backed by absolutely nothing to a promise backed by not the best collateral.
Let's say the defaults on mortgages will be even as high as 20%, that is still a good asset.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 19:30
#119130
land (fertile land) will definitely gain value
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:22
#119156
The people that say USD will be worthless as USA doesn't produce anything have rocks in their head.
US produces around a third of world food supply and computer technology. Although the manufacturing is in 30 some countries around the world for processors and other computer tech, these are still American companies. If population worldwide continues to grow, the land in USA will continue to increase in value very sharply in case of food shortages. These things happen with some regularity.
I wouldn't be surprised if the path for Detroit's recovery is burning down all the crappy real estate and converting to a farming state.
If you're looking for something to invest in consider seed companies, there'll be lots of startups in this area. The trend of growing your own vegetables is really catching on. In Russia, during 90s, large amount of population had no money and salaries were getting delayed by 9-12 months, but people survived. Why? everyone was growing their own vegetables and in some cases exchanged the produce for services.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 22:10
#119231
Thank you for this episode of Completely Unrelated Random Thoughts.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 11/04/2009 - 21:21
#120517
Not really unrelated, just wanted to stop another Schiffian USD assets won't be worth anything because USD will hyperinflate.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:05
#119150
in order to finance continuous interest payments to bankers.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:29
#118494
The price of gold is the "canary in a coal mine" to all fiat currencies. When these currencies are devalued through such actions as monetizing the debt, like what the Fed has been doing, investors sell these paper promises and purchase gold, which cannot be mass produced and will always be intrinsically valuable.
Hope that helps.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:31
#118500
Thanks to all that answered. I knew all of this, but I guess I thought there was something more sinister to the reasoning that I didn't know about. As for the Fed covering up the dollar's value and gold exposing it, unless you've been living under a rock for the last 5 years, you pretty much are aware that the Fed doesn't care about the dollar.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:40
#118523
Denial. It aint just a river in Egypt.
Actual price moves make denial of the problem somewhat more "problematic".
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:58
#118574
Pffft. Next you'll be telling us pimps don't care about thier whores. Have you never heard of honor among thieves? Those pimps love those whores!!! They REALLY DO!!!
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:26
#118654
Problem is, the vast majority of people are under that very rock.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:36
#118506
Survival Kit contents check,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5qqfsQGYus&feature=related
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:55
#118560
my favorite film of all time (just leaning out SpinalTap)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:05
#118738
+11
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:52
#118555
Gold is money with a velocity of zero.
When rising in price, it signals a "lack of confidence" in the fiat money regime.
The fiat money regime always requires confidence, critically so after degenerating into a massive Ponzi scheme such as it is now.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:33
#118912
Eloquence.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:26
#119159
So is gold-backed systems. I'm not aware of any gold-backed system that still survived. We can go centuries back.
Perhaps the issue worthy of discussion is really political stability rather than just what people consider a unit of exchange. Capital flees unstable regimes. Economy without capital is not an economy.
on Wed, 11/04/2009 - 01:30
#119382
The Byzantine Empire lasted something like 600 years...their currency was the byzant, gold coin. The Empire ended, if I understand correctly, when the great leader got into a war with the Turks and started reducing the amount of gold in the coin...
(h/t Ron Paul's book)
on Wed, 11/04/2009 - 00:09
#119338
@Bam: Gold is money with a velocity of zero.
With bank CDs paying 0.0x%, gold is not really tying up capital, is it?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:00
#118578
"Because all cash is a short position on Gold" - FOFOA.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:02
#118582
many comments though correct miss the point...the
significance of gold is in its regulation of
interest rates....
prior to gold confiscation investors could protest
poor bond interest rates or currency debasement
by selling the bonds and hiding their money in
gold.....
that effect is still in play...when investors
realize that too much risk is covered by too little
interest they can buy gold which would most likely
appreciate against fiat and paper money....
larry summers wrote about this need to suppress
gold prices in the 1980s and the cia and fed
have worried about this since the 1960s....
interest rates are where the game is...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:28
#118658
Because the dollar is the biggest Ponzi Scheme on the planet right now.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:50
#118707
THE FED AND CONGRESS FEAR GOLD LIKE AN ALLEY CAT FEARS A PIT BULL DOG. GOLD AND SILVER IS THE NATURAL PROTAGONIST OF ANTAGONIST FIAT PAPER NOTES. WHEN THE POPULATION ELECTS TO BUY PRECIOUS METALS AND DUMP PAPER, THEY KNOW THE CON IS OVER WITH, HENCE, THE WORRIED HAGGARD LOOK ON HELICOPTER BENNY'S FACE. NOT IF BUT WHEN........
ART.1 SEC. 10 U.S. CONSTITUTION
"THEY THAT FORGET HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT"
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:50
#118818
forgiven. that is a big question that deserves a big answer.
read this: "What is money and how to measure it?": http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/11/what-is-money-and-how-does-one-measure.html
AND
Mish recommends a classic book (in the link above) that will answer your question: "What Has Government Done to our Money?" by Murray Rothbard. It should be required reading of all literate human beings.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 23:41
#119307
Hey Ivanovich, The fed is worried about the confidence issue with the fiat USD and self fulfilling prophecy. Plus in the 70s the rise of gold was a reflection or direct feedback of losing the battle with inflation. Volker after his term as Fed President stated something like; he regretted that the price of gold got away from him like he should have intervened or controlled its price. Some people believe JPM is doing the Feds’ bidding by shorting gold. I like Nic Lenoir’s’ quote from today “Breakdown in correlations however is not uncommon around pivotal points, quite the opposite in fact” in regards to gold and the value of the USD. The contrarian in me wants to buy GLL and short gold for the short term (Trade with the Fed and the IMF) but I respect GOLD in the long term.
People also believe the FED has help with GOLD intervention from the BOE via Barclays.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:18
#118469
Wow. I can't wait to see what will happen when the IMF announces that the other half of their gold was gobbled up as well.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:34
#118511
Isbumblebee,
Right on,,
Don't be surprised if it was China, contrary to some folks belief...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:30
#119162
..and Russia, CBR is an active buyer of gold.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:20
#118475
( DJ ) 11/03 01:17PM *DJ Chrysler Group Oct Total Sales 65,803 Vs 94,530, Dn 30%
11/03 01:16PM *DJ Chrysler Group Oct Total Truck Sales 48,247 Vs 69,516, Dn 31%
( DJ ) 11/03 01:16PM *DJ Chrysler Group Oct Total Car Sales 17,556 Vs 25,014, Dn 32% (vs 29% expected)
How much money did the taxpayer loan chrysler again?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:58
#118525
Way too much Lizzy... will someone take Chrysler out behind the woodshed and shoot it already... it is just too painful to watch... 30% down... I see another Cash for Clunkers in our near future :-)
And with Toyota sales flat... and Nissan sales up ~5% in October... that makes it all the more hysterical.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:29
#118661
"will someone take Chrysler out behind the woodshed and shoot it already."
TOTALLY.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 19:39
#119135
I hear the PT Cruiser will drive around in circles for five minutes after you blow out the engine block
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:52
#119219
lol... like a chicken after you cut off its head... cute :-)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:20
#118476
I remember back in early 2007, when my banker told me that shifting RRSP out REITS into gold was a bad idea:)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:52
#118553
You should take your banker out behind the woodshed and shoot him, or her...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:29
#118492
I was called a tin foil hatter for buying $500 physical gold for my safety deposit box. Got several jokes about when I would build my bomb shelter.
It's times like this I have to really really show self control to hold back the I-told-you-so's.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:30
#118499
Naw, let loose a little.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:23
#118768
Absolutely, put on your tin foil hat and flaunt that your paranoia was right, and what the others were paranoid about (let's say, 2012 or the return of the lizard people) is so wrong, for now any way.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:36
#118515
I've been hearing that tin foil shit for 12 years now. I especially heard it from my now-ex-wife in 1998 when all her idiot lawyer friends were bragging about the killing they were making in the NASDAQ and I refused to go along, buying gold instead down in the $300 area. She badgered me constantly to put money into the market and I refused, saying a crash was imminent. Of course, I was early by 18 months.
She asked for a divorce in the summer of 1999. Boy, do I hope she put everything into the NASDAQ. I'd love to gloat but would prefer never to talk to that whore again.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:47
#118541
Sounds like a typical American idiot. Man are some of these morons going to be surprised when they end up as Chinese slaves.
Your best trade may have been to get rid of that whore.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:58
#118573
They're already Chinese slaves (the ones with jobs), they just don't realize it yet.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:33
#119167
Peter Schiff had an interesting commentary.
It went something like this: What's great about jobs anyways? There is never shortage of work for slaves and people in Communist Russia. It is the ability to enjoy the fruits of your labour.
Right on!
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:19
#118628
Agreed. Even if it cost you half of everything at the time....prolly saved you a shit ton of wealth in the long run...
$10 says she was on the housing bandwagon also and got caught with 4 alta homes when everything collapsed...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:15
#118879
And yet, you see nothing amiss with the current insane run up in commodities, including gold, right?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:56
#118566
i'd shove it in their faces....this is not a
time for restraint.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:27
#118656
everyone looks good in foil...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:40
#118688
lol :-)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:57
#118728
You should be called a tin foil hatter because you are keeping your gold in a safety deposit box. There's nothing safe about it.
on Wed, 11/04/2009 - 01:21
#119377
tin foil hatter with a Makita angle grinder: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1222777/The-raid-rocked-Met-Why-gun-drugs-op-6-717-safety-deposit-boxes-cost-taxpayer-fortune.html
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:53
#118832
As a tin-foil-hat wearer I can tell you that you safety deposit box is not the best place to keep your gold. In the case of a bank holiday or capitol control situation the banks will forbid removal of gold and other money from the boxes...better to keep some at home.
Just sayin.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:16
#118883
You should sell it now and earn a profit. Enjoy the extra 15% tax, too.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:34
#118917
BobPaulson, you may want to re-think the safety deposit box. FDR took gold out of them in the 30's...Check out this article about what just happened in England.
http://thecomingdepression.blogspot.com/2009/10/own-safety-deposit-box-better-read-this.html
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:34
#118918
BobPaulson, you may want to re-think the safety deposit box. FDR took gold out of them in the 30's...Check out this article about what just happened in England.
http://thecomingdepression.blogspot.com/2009/10/own-safety-deposit-box-better-read-this.html
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:35
#118921
BobPaulson, you may want to re-think the safety deposit box. FDR took gold out of them in the 30's...Check out this article about what just happened in England.
http://thecomingdepression.blogspot.com/2009/10/own-safety-deposit-box-better-read-this.html
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:36
#118925
You can't be a true tin-foil-hatter if you have it stored in a bank safety deposit box. Ugh! go get yourself a safe, man!
I am Chumbawamba.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:29
#118495
Ben giving orders at the next Fed meeting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtNfb6D3Mc&feature=related
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:36
#118513
Something is definatley going on. Golds rise to an all time high is not being confirmed by Silver or a DXY beating. And i certainly don't believe it's due to....
impending inflation
currency crisis
equity concern
or the unwinding of the historical over-suppression
I'm confused and cautious. Gold longs better have nuts of steel.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:03
#118585
Some of us have had "nuts of steel" all the way up from $300/oz. Not so tough anymore if you've already paid your dues.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:18
#118890
You'd think you would have learned your lesson when oil hit $147/barrel in the summer of '08, but no.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:53
#119182
in 1979 Gold AND Dow were both in 800s now Dow is almost 10000 and Gold not even 1100. Obviously over the long term Gold is cheap
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 22:13
#119232
what...and oil collapsed to $30/bbl, but gold from 1K to 650?
Meh. Dollar cost average.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:10
#118604
You must have missed that story where India just bought up 200 tonnes of gold...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:54
#118714
"Gold longs better have nuts of steel."
Right now, I'd rather have nuts of gold.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:35
#119010
It's being rumored that JPM is manipulating silver downwards to make money from some silver shorts they "liberated". I guess their fingers aren't as sticky into the gold trade as yet. Give it time, they'll work a pry bar in there.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:38
#118518
I buy all the arguments about gold, I truly do.
And because of that, I suspect that anybody buying it today at 1085 is going to get their ass handed to them in very short order.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:46
#118538
Penetrating analysis, Hey-sus.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:44
#118696
Forgive my brevity dude, but there's no point rehashing all the arguments for and against gold, they're done to death here and everywhere else I look. And as I say, I buy them, I really do.
I just think anybody getting long here is fucking with the wrong people if even 1% of the theories about how much the Fed and its bitches hate a high gold price are true.
The Jesus he said: "Let me tell you something, pendejo. You pull any of your crazy shit with us, you flash a piece out on the lanes, I'll take it away from you, stick it up your ass and pull the fucking trigger 'til it goes "click".
That's good enough for me.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:06
#118739
8 year olds dude...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:27
#118775
I am the walrus.
on Wed, 11/04/2009 - 04:37
#119410
Shut the fuck up, Donny.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:57
#118569
bwaaaahaaahahahhahahhahahahhahaha
i'm taking bets on 1100.....
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:04
#118587
Just like those who got their asses handed to them when they bought it at $300. ROTFL!
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:30
#118663
When the IMF first announced this gold sale it was noted on this board. I said that it would be scooped up by Asian central banks without ever hitting the market (although I must admit I thought it would be China doing it). I got laughed at by a couple people. Maybe one of them was you.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:18
#118889
I find this funny as hell, and a truly honest realization that we are plankton pushed around the ocean by predators of all sizes.
If gold is being bid up on leverage, and I admit that is an if, then the last ones in on this game will be ruined.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:16
#119155
Uh-huh. That's what they told me when I was buying at $400, and $500, and $600.....
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:40
#118522
I have been long GLD for a while now and tightening stops. Wearing a cup just in case.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:51
#118551
Make it a gold cup!
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:17
#118622
If any of the rumors re gold fractional reserve system in place at COMEX and LBMA are true, along with stories by Rob Kirby about delivery issues, GLD is not going to be a safehaven if the SHTF. Suspect IAU and SLV are in a similar boat - creatures of those shorting the market.
CEF, mining stocks (PMs with much higher beta), physical, etc. would likely be better options. Other folks may have better ideas.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:39
#118683
it's not a rumor...it's well documented....
besides if stocks are sold multiple times in
naked shorting as rolling stone reported, then
why would the gold market be any different...
read thunder road article in october about the
extent of the fractionality of the lbma...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:14
#118753
Rare earth metals or fertilizer are the key. My bet is on fertilizer. 6.7+ bn users can't be wrong...
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:41
#118802
You taking delivery on that fertilizer?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:43
#118807
he's already delivered.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 22:46
#119259
+1
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:57
#119185
LOL
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:42
#118529
Unrelated:
http://www.theamericanscholar.org/living-on-500000-a-year/
The story of F. Scott Fitzgerald and what was once know as 'King Dollar'
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:43
#118530
I liked reading Ivanovich's question and the answers. For me it's like being a child asking you: "Tell me a bed time story." I already know the story, but it is just soooo wonderful to hear it all again.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:15
#118615
that's why i love this place.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:43
#118531
So Peter Schiff was right, again.
And some wrestling diva is running against him in the primaries?
Typical America. Land of the idiots.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:40
#118690
Wasn't it that asshole Chris Dodd?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:31
#118780
primaries...Dodd is democrat IINM.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:22
#118894
I just assumed Dodd was the wrestling Diva, then I realized I got him mixed up with Barney Frank-n-furter.
MY BAD.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:53
#118948
The person running against Schiff is Linda McMahon, CEO of the WWE, and Vince McMahon, the founder and chairman of the WWE's wife.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:44
#118534
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601091&sid=ac4.u0JfPtWE
IMF sells 200 metric tons of gold to India. Hmmmmmm.....
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:46
#118536
Give the shiny stuff a 10% unconfirmed rally relative to other precious metals (because it's a commodity, not a "store of wealth," unless all physical goods that don't spoil are "stores of wealth") before it craps all over itself. Sorry kids, gold is an asset like any other asset denominated in dollars. If it doesn't rot it's got to correlate adjusted for demand*, and that ain't the case with gold relative to demand readings and other precious metals going on several months now.
*barring sucker-bet cultish fetishization fostered by pump-and-dumping dudes who can't wait to take your money
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:47
#118539
Value is such a relative/subjective term. The price of gold is now $1,085, but I for one do not believe it has anywhere near that kind of value. It's a shiny piece of metal with a history. Way, way back in history it was real money - today it's just the modern equivalent of the tulip bulb. This confidence game may go on for quite a while longer, but understand it for what it really is.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 20:59
#119186
From a Materials Science perspective, gold is a far better choice than the commonly used material in numerous applications. However, it's too expensive because it's rare. Gold is valuable because of it's scarcity and the society has determined that it's most valuable use is in preservation of wealth. Think about all the applications of copper and silver. Gold has better properties than either of these metals for numerous applictions.
on Wed, 11/04/2009 - 07:37
#119435
Were tulip bulbs part of the IMF's basket of currency" Or aka "SDR's?"
Seems that "shiny stuff" is...why is it that if one accepts gold can go up, and down, they are lambasted by those that didn't buy at $350 like some of us did? I wonder....
Sure, your house went up, the Dow went up...how many Euros could you buy for 75 cents in 2000...and how many now? Your house doubled in "value" while the Euro doubled in value against your dollar. My gold didn't. Can it be "bubblized?"
Of course, and if it seems to be headed that way, time to bail at $2500...then buy when it hits $300. But it's no "tulip bulb" by any means.
And no, I don't accept that the toxic mortgages should be considered "solid assets someday"...if the currency they are denominated in is, in my opinion, sinking like it has lead shoes.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:50
#118542
Why the crazyness? I'm not complaining as I went long miners back during the crash, and own gold as well, but WTF??? Shouldn't the sale to india drop the price as there is more outside of the vaults now?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:59
#118575
No. It proves that Central Banks are more interested in buying physical gold as opposed to selling it.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:17
#118621
Exactly. And when you are not a central bank and you are trying to buy gold, you are fighting all the central banks who wish to control supply.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:49
#118817
Until the dollar's reserve currency status is revoked, I think it might be the US Fed versus all the other central banks, versus the market-at-large...which (if true) would seem to make it more interesting.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:49
#118543
Why would the Fed be concerned about this? Isn't the whole point of their QE money printing to devalue the dollar so that an express default isn't needed? Ditto for the UK and some other central banks? Wouldn't they all be cheering a rise in gold prices as a sign that their dirty deed of devaluation is succeeding?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:50
#118545
That's kinda where I was coming from.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 21:02
#119188
Yes, but it has to be a controlled retreat. The bullion banks have to be able to skin the overlevered specs every now and again to give the banks an opportunity to cover their shorts. What the FED can't allow is for the gold price to start getting squirrely and escape their ability to influence it.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:19
#118627
I think their concern is about the fact that they are about to face reality for the first time. They can only stretch the dollar so far before the sheep realize they are being played.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:01
#118734
They can only devalue the dollar against other currencies. Can't do it against gold.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:49
#118544
I like gold up... equities down days :-) And is Warren Buffet losing his magic touch ... his $44B purchase of Burlington Northern Sante Fe with his proclamation that this purchase is an 'all-in wager on the economy' did little for equities... couldn't even bring futures to green this morning.
And I find it a little coincidental that Timmy was on the Sunday morning shows this weekend... and now 2 days later Warren is in the news... deja vu.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:09
#118603
He must know about some government program to help them. Of course people are always ranting about subsidies for rails while we allow 60,000 lb trucks to crush our roadbeds to powder on OUR dollar which makes prices go down for the biggest road crushers because they get subsidized against the little guy. It's all in hiding the assistance.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:18
#118623
OMG... you are probably right... never thought about that... since rail freight is way down there likely will be some type of juicy subsidy :-)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:21
#118635
Also, "all-in" for Buffett is sortof relative. Maybe it's "all-in" from the spare change he happened to have in his pocket at the time.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:35
#118674
Yep... Buffett probably got a call from Timmy on Sunday afternoon after the morning talk shows were over... begging him to buy something that would inspire confidence in the economy :-)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 18:44
#119101
hep, FB & MnNice, you're thinking with power! Look at who, is doing what, when and how and much can be discerned.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:21
#118636
rails "obama friendly"; trucking "not so much"
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:13
#118752
Be closer to 80,000lb in an 18 wheeler. Ground pressure is less than a car per tire. They are big.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:43
#119016
Wrong. Ground pressure is the same as tire pressure. Semis operate closer to 100 psi whereas autos are more like 35 psi. Semis cause a lot more wear and tear to the road surface per.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 22:28
#119242
Well, let's see here. Basic math says 80,000lbs / 18 wheels = ~4,000lbs/wheel for a semi. Whereas ~4,000lbs (average auto?) / 4 wheels = 1,000lbs/wheel.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 23:57
#119327
sorry -- tire pressure has nothing to do with tire pressure on the ground
there are many factors in what determine the air pressure needed to maintain tire shape/pressure etc ie speed/diameter etc etc
on Wed, 11/04/2009 - 07:13
#119429
...also, FYI, the formula for calculating the long tearm wear on a roadbed has the weight per wheel in "^4", hence, double the weight, 256 times damage to the road.
on Thu, 11/05/2009 - 17:35
#121429
Well it's the compressive and sheer forces ratings of the roadbed. But if tire durability is anything to do with it. You can't keep tires on a Semi. They tear them up badly. If you put any tires on a 2000 lb MG or low low weight pocket rocket they will ROT off before they wear out.
Not the dutch but the some country out in europe has it figured out. It tags based on mileage and weight. Period. But you do have the escalating size problem which is why elephant legs are fat with huge bones and mouse legs are skinny with tiny little bones so have to agree with you that x4 not ^4 multiplier works the same for roads as it does for life. Which makes a 80,0000 lb truck not 20 times more damaging than a 4000 lb car but 80 times more damaging to the roadbed.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 14:19
#118626
Sounds like an "all in" wager on some discounted real estate holdings.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 15:39
#118797
If you are very long, it is an all in wager on peak oil.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 16:49
#118941
Good point MsCreant... that is very true... had not thought of that :-)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 17:49
#119023
Hi MNNice!
NICE to see you. Just peeking at the thread before I go to work. Ya just knew it would get wild in here. They'll be at it till the break of dawn. Later Sistah!
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:51
#118547
Asking why this jump...IS it likely a response to the IMF selling a buttload of gold to India? If this is the reason for the spike...why? The IMF doesn't see gold so dearly that they would hold onto it, they happily sold a load, contrary to India wanting to buy it.
What else is there to explain the jump? The economic numbers are positive-ish rather than disappointing. The Fed hasn't announced anything have they?
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:53
#118557
When double chin Brown starts buying gold again...you know when to sell.
;)
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 13:55
#118561
I agree with everyone who sees gold trading in the 1400-1600 range in 2010-11, and I will jump on the train. But I just put on my gold shorts. I like how they look with my others.
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