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Get those SDRs ready Ben.
h/t Client #10
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Make it a gold cup!
If any of the rumors re gold fractional reserve system in place at COMEX and LBMA are true, along with stories by Rob Kirby about delivery issues, GLD is not going to be a safehaven if the SHTF. Suspect IAU and SLV are in a similar boat - creatures of those shorting the market.
CEF, mining stocks (PMs with much higher beta), physical, etc. would likely be better options. Other folks may have better ideas.
it's not a rumor...it's well documented....
besides if stocks are sold multiple times in
naked shorting as rolling stone reported, then
why would the gold market be any different...
read thunder road article in october about the
extent of the fractionality of the lbma...
Rare earth metals or fertilizer are the key. My bet is on fertilizer. 6.7+ bn users can't be wrong...
You taking delivery on that fertilizer?
he's already delivered.
+1
LOL
Unrelated:
http://www.theamericanscholar.org/living-on-500000-a-year/
The story of F. Scott Fitzgerald and what was once know as 'King Dollar'
I liked reading Ivanovich's question and the answers. For me it's like being a child asking you: "Tell me a bed time story." I already know the story, but it is just soooo wonderful to hear it all again.
that's why i love this place.
So Peter Schiff was right, again.
And some wrestling diva is running against him in the primaries?
Typical America. Land of the idiots.
Wasn't it that asshole Chris Dodd?
primaries...Dodd is democrat IINM.
I just assumed Dodd was the wrestling Diva, then I realized I got him mixed up with Barney Frank-n-furter.
MY BAD.
The person running against Schiff is Linda McMahon, CEO of the WWE, and Vince McMahon, the founder and chairman of the WWE's wife.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601091&sid=ac4.u0JfPtWE
IMF sells 200 metric tons of gold to India. Hmmmmmm.....
Give the shiny stuff a 10% unconfirmed rally relative to other precious metals (because it's a commodity, not a "store of wealth," unless all physical goods that don't spoil are "stores of wealth") before it craps all over itself. Sorry kids, gold is an asset like any other asset denominated in dollars. If it doesn't rot it's got to correlate adjusted for demand*, and that ain't the case with gold relative to demand readings and other precious metals going on several months now.
*barring sucker-bet cultish fetishization fostered by pump-and-dumping dudes who can't wait to take your money
Value is such a relative/subjective term. The price of gold is now $1,085, but I for one do not believe it has anywhere near that kind of value. It's a shiny piece of metal with a history. Way, way back in history it was real money - today it's just the modern equivalent of the tulip bulb. This confidence game may go on for quite a while longer, but understand it for what it really is.
From a Materials Science perspective, gold is a far better choice than the commonly used material in numerous applications. However, it's too expensive because it's rare. Gold is valuable because of it's scarcity and the society has determined that it's most valuable use is in preservation of wealth. Think about all the applications of copper and silver. Gold has better properties than either of these metals for numerous applictions.
Were tulip bulbs part of the IMF's basket of currency" Or aka "SDR's?"
Seems that "shiny stuff" is...why is it that if one accepts gold can go up, and down, they are lambasted by those that didn't buy at $350 like some of us did? I wonder....
Sure, your house went up, the Dow went up...how many Euros could you buy for 75 cents in 2000...and how many now? Your house doubled in "value" while the Euro doubled in value against your dollar. My gold didn't. Can it be "bubblized?"
Of course, and if it seems to be headed that way, time to bail at $2500...then buy when it hits $300. But it's no "tulip bulb" by any means.
And no, I don't accept that the toxic mortgages should be considered "solid assets someday"...if the currency they are denominated in is, in my opinion, sinking like it has lead shoes.
Why the crazyness? I'm not complaining as I went long miners back during the crash, and own gold as well, but WTF??? Shouldn't the sale to india drop the price as there is more outside of the vaults now?
No. It proves that Central Banks are more interested in buying physical gold as opposed to selling it.
Exactly. And when you are not a central bank and you are trying to buy gold, you are fighting all the central banks who wish to control supply.
Until the dollar's reserve currency status is revoked, I think it might be the US Fed versus all the other central banks, versus the market-at-large...which (if true) would seem to make it more interesting.
Why would the Fed be concerned about this? Isn't the whole point of their QE money printing to devalue the dollar so that an express default isn't needed? Ditto for the UK and some other central banks? Wouldn't they all be cheering a rise in gold prices as a sign that their dirty deed of devaluation is succeeding?
That's kinda where I was coming from.
Yes, but it has to be a controlled retreat. The bullion banks have to be able to skin the overlevered specs every now and again to give the banks an opportunity to cover their shorts. What the FED can't allow is for the gold price to start getting squirrely and escape their ability to influence it.
I think their concern is about the fact that they are about to face reality for the first time. They can only stretch the dollar so far before the sheep realize they are being played.
They can only devalue the dollar against other currencies. Can't do it against gold.
I like gold up... equities down days :-) And is Warren Buffet losing his magic touch ... his $44B purchase of Burlington Northern Sante Fe with his proclamation that this purchase is an 'all-in wager on the economy' did little for equities... couldn't even bring futures to green this morning.
And I find it a little coincidental that Timmy was on the Sunday morning shows this weekend... and now 2 days later Warren is in the news... deja vu.
He must know about some government program to help them. Of course people are always ranting about subsidies for rails while we allow 60,000 lb trucks to crush our roadbeds to powder on OUR dollar which makes prices go down for the biggest road crushers because they get subsidized against the little guy. It's all in hiding the assistance.
OMG... you are probably right... never thought about that... since rail freight is way down there likely will be some type of juicy subsidy :-)
Also, "all-in" for Buffett is sortof relative. Maybe it's "all-in" from the spare change he happened to have in his pocket at the time.
Yep... Buffett probably got a call from Timmy on Sunday afternoon after the morning talk shows were over... begging him to buy something that would inspire confidence in the economy :-)
hep, FB & MnNice, you're thinking with power! Look at who, is doing what, when and how and much can be discerned.
rails "obama friendly"; trucking "not so much"
Be closer to 80,000lb in an 18 wheeler. Ground pressure is less than a car per tire. They are big.
Wrong. Ground pressure is the same as tire pressure. Semis operate closer to 100 psi whereas autos are more like 35 psi. Semis cause a lot more wear and tear to the road surface per.
Well, let's see here. Basic math says 80,000lbs / 18 wheels = ~4,000lbs/wheel for a semi. Whereas ~4,000lbs (average auto?) / 4 wheels = 1,000lbs/wheel.
I am Chumbawamba.
sorry -- tire pressure has nothing to do with tire pressure on the ground
there are many factors in what determine the air pressure needed to maintain tire shape/pressure etc ie speed/diameter etc etc
...also, FYI, the formula for calculating the long tearm wear on a roadbed has the weight per wheel in "^4", hence, double the weight, 256 times damage to the road.
Well it's the compressive and sheer forces ratings of the roadbed. But if tire durability is anything to do with it. You can't keep tires on a Semi. They tear them up badly. If you put any tires on a 2000 lb MG or low low weight pocket rocket they will ROT off before they wear out.
Not the dutch but the some country out in europe has it figured out. It tags based on mileage and weight. Period. But you do have the escalating size problem which is why elephant legs are fat with huge bones and mouse legs are skinny with tiny little bones so have to agree with you that x4 not ^4 multiplier works the same for roads as it does for life. Which makes a 80,0000 lb truck not 20 times more damaging than a 4000 lb car but 80 times more damaging to the roadbed.
Sounds like an "all in" wager on some discounted real estate holdings.
If you are very long, it is an all in wager on peak oil.
Good point MsCreant... that is very true... had not thought of that :-)
Hi MNNice!
NICE to see you. Just peeking at the thread before I go to work. Ya just knew it would get wild in here. They'll be at it till the break of dawn. Later Sistah!
Asking why this jump...IS it likely a response to the IMF selling a buttload of gold to India? If this is the reason for the spike...why? The IMF doesn't see gold so dearly that they would hold onto it, they happily sold a load, contrary to India wanting to buy it.
What else is there to explain the jump? The economic numbers are positive-ish rather than disappointing. The Fed hasn't announced anything have they?
When double chin Brown starts buying gold again...you know when to sell.
;)
I agree with everyone who sees gold trading in the 1400-1600 range in 2010-11, and I will jump on the train. But I just put on my gold shorts. I like how they look with my others.
Ditto -- there's such thing as too far too fast. And I'm a gold+silver bug too.
One thing that's pushed me into expecting a selling swing is I have a feeling the Fed may do a token raise (a quarter of a point) to shake people out of gold and dollar shorts. Regardless, if there's no raise this week, then I'm still expecting gold selling in a 'sell the news' fashion.
Two possibilities for discussion:
1. China pissed at India, IMF and Goldman Sachs (in that order), buying to cause trouble.
2. Fleeing Swiss, recalling their preferred wealth transfer mode from WWII, loading up the U-boats, flying saucers and boxcars with glittering hoards for transport to....??? How's Chile doing these days?
or 3. Both, each forgot to call the other this morning. "oooh what risk are you wearing today? Me too!"
Author Says G-20 Meeting in Scotland this Week about Dumping U.S. Dollar
http://www.prweb.com/releases/G-20/US_Dollar/prweb3150584.htm
Independence Day: Decoupling Gold and Silver from the Dollar
http://seekingalpha.com/article/92901-independence-day-decoupling-gold-a...
didn't bob prechter of 'elliott wave theory' predict gold would collapse back down to about $600 per ounce sometime in the near future?
HAHAHAHAHHHHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!
Mogambo does it best:
"Hahahackhackha!"
I believe Prechter's target was $400.
If you acted on that call, Ouch.
So does Stoneleigh, Denninger, others who predict S&P below 600. In some sense, Roubini is also predicting same if dollar carry trade reverses and everyone has to cover by buying dollars and selling assets (including gold). Their view is that the downside will be worse than September-March of this year. Credit crunch and dollar trade could spring a mother of short covering in the dollar, falling stocks may force liquidation in order to cover.
This is the deflation/crash argument.
Gold to decouple. Somewhat. Not as bad as stocks.
Silver will probably get hammered in such a scenario.
WHAT EVER THE SIZE OF THE MOUNTAIN, WHEN ALL THE FINANCIAL DUST SETTLES, GOLD AND SILVER WILL STILL BE ON TOP OF THE HEAP.
bravo 7
Anyone who trades off "wave theory" is asking to get burned...
You don't trade off of wave theory, but you do acknowledge its existence, in conformity with other macro factors. It can be instructive. Prechter called the top of the silver market in March '08 and called the turn of the market to the up side in March '09 (as did others).
If we are still in a huge deleveraging as anticipated by a number of reliables, then caution remains the word.
I have my gold, I have my silver. I am long both in significant amounts. With Silver. I am more cautious because silver gets hammered anytime there is a significant correction. Gold much less so. Has gold uncoupled from that process?
In the final analysis, the argument continues to be deflation/inflation and if inflation by virtue of dollar carry trade- do we eventually get Roubini's dollar short covering? That will make last September-March look like easy street. In that event, silver falls significantly, silver and gold juniors fall significantly (to be bought aggressively at a bottom).
At some point I am all in (long) gold, silver, oil, commodities.
Not just yet.
Gold's reaction in the days after the FOMC supposed announcement of ending QE will be very interesting. If it continues higher in the days after this Wednesday and remains above 1060 for the next five days, there may be no going back and the dollar is history.
Perhaps, but one might like to see stocks/other assets falling (Roubini) and gold holding to confirm.
If gold holds there, it's off to the races.
I then store bullion in my airraid shelter.
Gold is going up.... why?
Because other currencies are junk? If so, does that have anything to do with Gold itself?
For example, if I run the 100 meters against someone who is "junk" and win, does it make me any more valuable as a runner?
Can someone please help me with this one?
Priced in terms of junk, Gold is expensive.
Most people prefer to be 100% "long" the junk instead.
Sounds like you're one of them.
No, I'm not. I think all currencies are headed for the toilet.
But, does that then mean that we will buy groceries with gold? I mean, at some point, emotions need to be removed from the trade. Buying gold strictly as a hedge is one thing, but doing so because you believe it will become the medium of exchange is totally another. And BTW..... if we do head for an armageddon event, who will buy your gold? Kinda like housing now.... everyone that borrowed against their own place at inflated values cannot now sell and rationalize the debt. To buy on speculation assumes a sucker in waiting when you go to sell. I see no more value in gold than I do in copper, oil, silver, molybdenum, uranium, zinc.....
To me, gold is an emotional trade.
You buy gold because it's the reset tool for the mythical paradoxical lying ass fiat currency. And yes you are right it' sno more valuable than other commodities it's just alot easier to store. My brother likes to store his wealth in his house which is fine but he pays alot of property tax fees for storage and it's a VERY illiquid asset. If I had ALOT of wealth. I'd buy copper, silver, gold, and raw land with trees.
I will not buy groceries in gold, not ever. That will not happen, I think. I will buy them priced in toilet paper/usd as usual. But my gold will undoubtedly supply me with more toilet paper, and thus increase my purchasing power.
"To me, gold is an emotional trade."
That's fine, but its because you don't understand gold. The only question is if you WANT to understand gold, or if you think everyone else is stupid?
I've heard the same arguments you are using now since gold was $400. The same people still think gold buyers are stupid, which only proves that these people are immune from profits.
The Kitco website with all its dancing baloney on it tells me everything I need to know about gold and the people who deal in it.
although some of your point is sensible it is
during an armageddon event which gold is most
needed....when gold is vulgar currency it is
not bought....gold does the buying...
Yet some very unemotional people are willing to pay close to $1,100 for a 1 oz gold coin. Interesting, ain't it?
there is nothing emotional about it....at least
no more so than emotional people willing to
pay .68 euros for a dollar....
The only true Armageddon event we have to use as an example is the fall of Rome & the Middle Ages. During the Middle ages gold lost currency (no shops or wages paid). However it was still used in 'High Finance' such as it was. The laird used it to wage war, build castles, buy land etc. The peasants (like you & me) reverted to barter, even to pay their horrendous taxes to his lordship. Gradually, when currency did come back (as the Middle Ages ended) it was gold.
Nope:
Going into the race you would be the odds on favorite and
you would win by a landslide. Gold against fiat currency is like the old mike tyson vs. pee wee herman. NO CONTEST
you are absolutely correct that there is a relativity
component between gold and fiats....in fact kitco
attempts to split out the change in price due to
dollar change vs demand change....go to their site
to see the table near the top of the page...
so to understand cause and effect you have to
analyze currency dynamics, gold supply/demand, politics, etc...
these days currecny debasement and gold supply
factors are driving the price...in addition,
folks are realizing that they can get better gains
by taking physical posession of gold due to the
fractional nature of gold trading coming unglued....
Any chance that India is acting as a broker for someone else for all or a part of todays gold purchase....like China
I'm going to the dealership tommorow with my 18 ounces of Gold and pick up my new car. Does anyone else get the disconnect here?
that's a legal tender issue on the fiat...
The disconnect is that the car is worth .5 ounce on the 1 ounce as soon as you ink the deal, and you didn't even need the car.
Umm...where is Robert Prechter?
I think I saw something about him being on Bloomberg (or Bloomberg Radio) sometime soon.
Should be good for a laugh. I am sure he will just adjust his "wave" or some other such bullshit, to justify his awful calls.
S&P to 2000 by EOY 2010, Gold to $5000, that is my call.
Keep printing, Bennie Boy.
Please post a link here for us all if you happen to come across it. I just wanna see how the guy keeps a straight face making all those bullshit calls.
GG let it be. We need some idiots to take the opposite side of the trade.
Gold and silver are to be bought.
Plain and simple.
http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au3650nyb.html
The news articles are stating that the Indian purchase of gold was around $1050/oz, but I calculated it out to $950/oz myself. Anyone else care to break it down so we can see what the real number is? There's a big difference between 950 and 1050 =O.
There had to be some discount at that volume.
heh...at today's price, 1050 was the discount.
Anybody want to sell to me at 950? I will Fedex you the cash today.
Anybody having trouble getting physical?
Yes, I call my dealer daily. I get dribs and drabs, but not all I want.
Good Lord! How much you looking for anyway?
Just a few more ounces. Would have liked to have them at lower prices than this!! I was 1/3 PMs 2/3 cash, I am almost up to 1/2 and 1/2 now. My dealer I know, and know where he is if he screws with me. The mail, I don't trust. And sometimes I do get a little extra from this dealer (or he makes me think so). :-)
All the big online dealers have physical. Check apmex, kitco, tulving, etc.
Are you picking your nose? That is the ugliest shirt I have ever seen.
They bought 200,000 Metric Tons
1 Troy Ounce = .0311 Kg
6.7 Billions / 200,000 / 0.0311 = $1,041
Well here let me work it out myself
6,700,000,000 / 200 = 33,500,000/tonne
33,500,000 / 1000 = 33,500/kg
33,500 / 1000 = 33.50/gr
33.50 * 28.3495 = 949.71/oz
I found my mistake. Gold is measured in troy ounces, which are 31.1035 grams
33.50 * 31.1035 = 1,041.97/oz
Essentially no discount for 200 tonnes of gold. Gold $1250 by the end of the year?
gold is already 1300 usd....lbma tried to bribe
a buyer with 1300 usd fiat for a failed delivery
in september....buyer said fuck you....
So the IMF paid them to take it? WTF?
Something big coming up. Stimulus v2.0 perhaps?
goooooolllllllllldddddddd, all holders are happy, anyone see any resistance above, lol, this is the terroritory of those who buy new highs, and there are quite of few of those, turtle terroritory
4 horsemen got smeared. Commodities, Equities, Bonds, Currency. Then stimulus, bailout, and backstop made apparent to all with half a brain that the USA sovereignity was insolvent. Quantitative easing and Credit easing were nails in the coffin.
Gold, farmland, survival essentials are the catch basins.
What would you do if you sent an army to the field in 4 waves and all were destroyed and routed.
Defenseless and facing an enraged enemy, what would you do?
Portable wealth.
We're facing a revolution. The financial system must be remade or we will have the oligarchs enforce one upon us.
But things will NEVER be the same, and we have many miles before we sleep.
i'll buy the gold at 950. i won't buy the gold at 1100, not yet
You won't buy it at all. Now get me a rice bowl.
Gold to da moon and bonds down.
This is not what Ben and Timmaay want.
Time to "pull the plug" on the stock market.
Perfect.
http://www.we7.com/track/Up-Up-And-Away-Beautiful-Balloon-Mix-?trackId=1...
I think we saw a run up in another commodity last summer and everyone went crazy and doom and gloom blah blah blah!!! Then crash-- I buy all the reasoning behind every argument, but when the commodity is manipulated, then all the logic counts for nothing!! It is like playing the slots in Vegas, the game is rigged!!
It is rigged until it isn't.
Beyond where it isn't rigged anymore is the event horizon. Terra incognita. Off the edge of the map.
Price of gold was artificially low partly because many people thought that IF the IMF sold its gold on the open market, it would kill the price. Jim Rogers made that point several times in the last 6 months. Maybe what's going on here is recognition that demand is strong enough to absorb it.
If the US dollar keeps getting pounded. I think oil will go up more too.
With high oil prices, Buffet's bet on more efficient rail transport could work out just fine.
It's one of the few long-term investments I could see working.
Buffet (or someone who has his ear) is thinking a few years past peak-oil. You don't even need oil to run trains; they'll run on coal, they'll run on furniture. You can burn houses in your steam engines and move food from mid-west farms -- and troops from North Dakota -- to South California where the starving masses riot in the streets. The Feds will guard the rails and build forts and stations along the way, just like in the good old days.
Nice profit right there. No technological break-thrus required.
... and you should pronounce that "tek-ner-LOW-gee-cul" if you want to get the proper chill running down your spine.
LOL. Wow, what century are you in? Steam? Forts? History rhymes, but will be be enslaving the natives to look for....gold?
This of course was the point of CA's missions. El Dorado on the backs of "free" labor.
Gold will get to $600 by mid-2010. This move is BS. The usual speculative bubble.
Wasn't it supposed to get to $600 by now? ROTFLMFAO!
Ok, gold is money, lets see
Take one woman today and sit her down at the table.
In front of her place two, 2005 1 oz. gold Maple leafs.
Then place in front of her a gold necklace with a gold pendant and matching earings worth $ 2,000.
Which one will she choose to keep?
I pick up the coins, give you a kiss, and say "Thank you very much!" I leave the table so that you can have the chick you really want, the one who would take the jewelry.
The problem is your taste in women.
rotflmao.....oh honey you got class.....
2000 worth of jewelry would have 1400 worth of gold in it.
Very well put MsCreant.
You are not the first to say that is my problem. Rich women do not need money.
She took the jewelry and then said she expected the matching bracelet for Valentine's Day.
Waterdog, Sweetness,
By the standards of most here, I am not rich. I am however, independent. I love to partner, but I don't look to be taken care of. The real gold is when your man is not mentally ill from greed or stress. The real gold is when he has time, all he wants to do is be with you. There is no price on that. So yeah, if I want trinkets, I can get them myself. I don't need my husband in his grave early. I love him. I have been given jewelry over the years and I have felt bad for the men who did it. I did not fawn or melt or love it. I understood the gesture and what they were trying to do, and I loved them for trying, but it also showed they did not know me or who I was.
Good luck.
Never thought of it as "taking care of" MsC, more along the lines of she's the permanent one, she looks hot in gold, she has that radiant smile putting it on... and since I insist it be 99.9%, and is, by custom where I live, easily sold at market value back to the place that sold it...I see it as more an investment *we* made for our future.
Just my2cents.
Awesome! Yeah, I would not know how to get 99.9% jewelry or I might have some myself. Our stuff is kind of like driving the new car off the lot, loses value immeadiately when you leave the showroom! Even pawn shop prices suck (this has mystified me).
I misinterpreted her expecting you to buy things for her. You are willing, there is no bitterness. Apologies.
depends how smart she is.
Here's an honest question....where do we go when the dollar, euro, and GBP all tank? What's the next step after the public hangings of the TPTB?
Do T(new)PTB all agree on a zero-line and rebuild from there? Timeframe?
Was Y2K a dress-rehearsal?
A very good question. This isn't a cause for celebration. Gold is signalling the end of the USD reserve system, and great hardship for us spoiled Americans.
Consider for just a moment the possibility that the zero-line was drawn a few months ago, and that everything happening now (everything) is a broadly negotiated collapse back to that line.
Creeped out yet? No?
Then let's add that the reason it was done this way is because a Obama administration came in, saw that their goose was cooked, and decided that if the Republic was going to fall anyway, why not have it fall while in their own hands? Possession being nine-tenths of the law, don't you know, and if we bail out our currency swap partners then they'll let us cheat a little on the Bill-o-Rights issues. The only difficulty being the "ropes" you mention, so a back-room-deal with our trading partners would suit the occasion.
With me still? OK then, down the rabbit hole!
But they can't really do it in one pull. Too obvious. Need to do it in -- oh let's say -- 5 or 6 pulls up and down. You pull down one thing, then you pull down another. Pull something up, something else down. You bounce around a little, cover the scent. Everyone is watching everyone else, keeping each other honest. Honestly. You have G20 and G8 and G[SQRT(2)] meetings all the time, just enough to keep the wheels turning and global policy "synchronized" but not enough to make it look like you are actually working together. After about 18 months you have things pretty much where you think they should be -- where the models said was the natural state of the global balance of all things that mean fuck all -- and you cut the ropes that are binding it all together, and you let 'er rip. If your models were right, nobody notices you cut things loose. If your models were wrong (or someone cheated, you bad boy) then things fly to pieces in interesting ways, but ways that were no worse than what would have happened on its own 24 months prior.
Not that I would ever suggest such a scenario. Utter nonsense.
cougar
I enjoy your posts and your avatar. I have a rescue cat who is a meditation in alertness and laid back. He is the dude and the dude abides.
Look forward to the green kitty posts. I too am intensely "peak resource" aware. I started with the movie The End of Suburbia, had my mind blown, (no more blue pills possible anymore), and I entered this whole dialogue via peak oil. Hung out at a few peak oil blogs for a while (Oil Drum, Kunstler) but the economy itself came up on my radar as THE PRESSING ISSUE.
Just wanted to say hi and let you know I appreciate your voice! I think even if TS did not HTF, it is a valuable exercise to consider just how dependent we have let ourselves become on the systems provided to us. In short, it should not have ever gotten to this point. Meanwhile, I do think it will collapse-- hard. It will start with intermittent outages of fuel, or power, or other services. Each area will experience it in a different way. As these taken for granted things become less and less available, the legitimacy of the entire enterprise will finally come into question. From there, I will not project further except to say it will go down differently in different places depending primarily on the acculturation of the people who live there, and the leadership.
Should I say Caio or Meow? :-)
I congratulate people who have been long gold.
I have no idea about the gold market as to think that buying or selling gold is a smart move now.
That being said, I am surprised with the arrogance of some people who have been long gold. Readers of this website should know better than anyone that nothing is what it seems, that there are very powerful masters behind the curtains, and that ALL prices are being manipulated. They should therefore remain cautious not to be F&^$(* up at some point, maybe very suddenly.
Gold does not have a price. Gold is money. What you observe as the "price of gold" is really just how other assets are valued in terms of gold. It now requires 1,085 Federal Reserve Notes to trade for one ounce of .999 pure gold.
Being "long gold" is sort of meaningless. If you have gold, you have money, you have wealth. Nobody can take it away from you by fiat, meaning no one can devalue your gold. They can only try to make other things worth more than gold. This is the ebb and flow of real money. Certainly, someone can physically take it from you. However, if you have gold on paper (i.e. an ETF) that paper only represents gold. If you cannot trade that paper for real metal, or if you cannot convince someone to trade you something you want for the value that that paper represents then you are shit outta luck.
But more than anything, gold price manipulation is ultimately going to be pointless. The trend is your friend. You cannot manipulate the trend. And the trend is for gold to continue rising in terms of other assets for the long term.
I am Chumbawamba.
I assume you are an individual. Individuals must always remember their whole lifetime is statistically insignificant. Meaning, you may know something is to blow up, be fully right, and yet get screwed up. IOW, you may be fully right but be "outliered". The intellectual satisfaction of being right helps but it does not offset the financial pain of being "outliered". Then again, I may be biased by having been "outliered" a couple of times.
Where ya been baby? Gordon's been pulling a lot of the weight around here.
Show tiiiiime! Chumbawambaaaaaz in da howse!
"What you observe as the "price of gold" is really just how other assets are valued in terms of gold"
Really? So how do you account for day's like today? (Gold and Dollars rising simultaneously). Gold is not an inflation hedge. Anyone who thinks so is at the wrong party.
Because Federal Reserve Notes are an asset (a poor one), and they have a price in terms of other assets.
So gold is not an inflation hedge? Really? So for the past 90 years the rise of the price of gold in terms of Federal Reserve Notes, which have been inflated all those 9 long decades, is explained by some other fact?
The thinking (or lack thereof) of certain individuals repels the mind.
I am Chumbawamba.
http://www.elliottwave.com/freeupdates/archives/2009/10/26/Is-Gold-The-B...
No chart.
I looked at that chart and can tell you that the starting point is incorrect. You shouldn't use the government confiscated price for the initial starting point $20.67, you should use the $34 price it was immediately revalued to and the corresponding gold price at the time, OR look at the period after gold was taken out of backing the US dollar - when I did this I got a multiple of roughly 7.5 each by eyeballing the chart.
If the multiple is slightly higher for gold, it could be because gold is a leading indicator (studies now show this) and is forward looking (the market for gold is all knowing and encompasses all known information about the future). What you should be aware of is that dollars are infinite in supply and gold is finite - that should answer all your questions why gold which is scarce would be worth more than paper which is infinite.
I am beginning to think Precter might be one of them, as the graph is disingenuous.
Gold has no intrinsic value other than to reveal that the emporer has no clothes. That's why the money printers hate it so.
The inflationary attempts of the goverment from January to October 1931 were thus offset by the peoples attempts to convert their bank deposits into legal tender.
What is the intrinsic value of ink-smeared paper rectangles?
depends on the amount of trace cocaine
I suppose it may be of some interest to historians.
LOL WHAT! You're kidding right? I mean not that gold isn't like... undestructable or anything, or that quality isn't of value as a STORE OF WEALTH. Let's also not mention that it is finite, takes work to aquire, you know things that make it honest.
Yah... no intrinsic value at all...
it's a ten year uptrend, so it's freindly, 6 billion folks, only takes X many to believe, not starting an arguement, what is pretty true is the believers have been accumlating, ie, averaging up for ten years, the dollar would have too rally strongly at this point too stop the momentum
Just an observation. I know of no other "investment" you can throw money at that gets people on both sides as worked up as gold. Nobody gets emotional about credit derivative swaps. Gold is a different beast. People love it or hate it, but I don't know of too many peope who don't care one way or the other. Just an observation.
Individuals can't trade CDS but they can buy gold.
the reason is due to indoctrination and religion...
.there is an intractible war between truth and
deception....most people's sense of personhood is wrapped up
in the outcome....
so much money has been invested in the story of
the primacy of paper currency.....how much of one's
self esteem, education, and life experiences
would vanish if the frn goes the way
of all other fiats?...the vast majority of people
know only the paper religion....talking gold
is heresy....and the fiatists might say the same
of the hard money people....
going against the establishment is not even a
remote possibility for most people....
how would you feel if that dream of yours going
to work in your underwear really came true?
ps. the dollar is really not a fiat currency - that
is a huge misnomer....