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And The Obligatory "Selloff Day" Gold Plunge Is Here

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Just when you thought gold could go through at least one major selloff day without some remarkable fireworks, here comes a perfectly natural $10 selloff in the span of under a minute, because that is precisely how a quantized and "deep" order book looks like. Just how related this is with the reopening of the ECB's FX swap lines with the US is unclear. We are confident the BIS will be perfectly happy to provide commentary on the issue.

 

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Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:42 | 515311 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Tyler, that looks like hedge fund panic selling man. Someone couldn't cover some losses in their equities and pulled the ripcord. Those are major candles at 1100, right about the time the market broke 1092 on the S&P.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:55 | 515374 DarkMath
DarkMath's picture

"fund panic selling."

Why the panic? You mean that fund couldn't spread the selling out over a few extra minutes? I don't buy it. If I was running a hedge fund and I needed generate some cash I'd spend the extra hour to unwind my Long position. That way I'd actually keep the cash and instead of flusing it down the toilet by driving the market down.

Right? This is trading 101. This isn't what's happening. JPMorganChase has been given a government contract to keep the price of Gold under $1200 no matter what.

Panic selling my ass.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:17 | 515468 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Well. It is only a 1% dip at the end of some organized selling.  I think they did spread it out, until the end.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:36 | 515547 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

DarkMath is 100% correct. ++++

No one, and I mean no one, liquidates a large commodity position in one minute. You scale out over the course of the session(s). A $10, one-minute move is manipulation only. JPM has done one of two things:

1) Waited for the right moment to pool a bunch of sells and then executed at the precise moment they see an shortage of bids.

2) They bid stuff, just like they do in equities. Then, once the market has equilibrium, they pull their bids and the standing offers simply overwhelm the market, driving it instantaneously lower.

In this case, I'm leaning toward #2. Either way, moves like today are pure, unadulterated manipulation. Anyone who claims otherwise is naive. 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:55 | 515631 Hunch Trader
Hunch Trader's picture

I think in late 2008 and early 2009, there was plenty of 'all now' panic selling. Nothing else explains those 1-2 dollar drops on SPY in ONE SECOND...and they just kept on coming and coming with no end. It was like watching live machine gun fire, but with artillery.

 

If it's customer cash it ultimately doesn't matter jack to the fund if there's no profit left to be charged 20%...they still get the '2' part of 2/20.

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:08 | 515652 DarkMath
DarkMath's picture

You mean the type of selling we saw on the Silver market in 2008 where the price got cut in half.

That had nothing to do with JPMorgan unwinding a deeply underwater Silver short position they inherited from Bear Sterns now could it? I mean it was weird that the price of Silver started dropping almost immediately after JPMorgan inked the deal and no sooner. As I recall the deal was final around April/May time frame and then the price of Silver started dropping in June. Very weird timing but as you say the liquidations just kept coming. People needed their money. I guess The Law of Supply and Demand took a sabatical in 2008.

Same for Gold. There was an incredible DEMAND and virtually no SUPPLY in 2008 yet the price of Gold kept dropping....Strange Law that Supply and Demand.

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:12 | 515691 akak
akak's picture

Why is gold supposedly the "go to" selloff asset in the case of a hedge fund liquidity crunch?  After all, we are told time and again how relatively small the gold market is compared to equities and, especially, bonds, so why is it that gold supposedly keeps taking the brunt of being sold off to make up for losses elsewhere within these funds, and not bonds or others assets with much larger market capitalizations?

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:14 | 515702 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Which is more liquid? Gold or bonds? I say gold. Despite the conspiracy woo-woo stuff about JPM under "government orders" to suppress the gold price, which begs the question as to why they didn't hold it at $500 still, you have to think what asset have banks been accumulating overseas and holding in reserve that they can dump in a heartbeat? They can "loan" their bonds to the Fed or ECB for liquidity but if they get a call for an immediate need for cash, gold is a given as almost every central bank in Asia or the Middle East will buy it.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:39 | 515784 DarkMath
DarkMath's picture

"Which is more liquid? Gold or bonds?"

Ah, you mean Gold or US Treasury Debt which can be printed, scratch that, typed into a keyboard and at this very moment is the single most popular investment known to mankind so selling it would be as easy as me picking my nose?

Alex, I'm going to have to do with "Bonds".

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:49 | 515816 akak
akak's picture

Exactly.

And with the bonds (government debt) market being VASTLY larger, and just as liquid, as the gold market, any argument that suggests that these plunges in the price of gold are merely due to meeting temporary liquidity needs will continue to strike me as naive and ignorant, if not dangerously disingenuous.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 14:07 | 515868 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

The ETF GLD is as liquid as it gets. It doesn't mean squat if there's ever a failure to deliver from the COMEX but with Government (Treasury) bonds being used on balance sheets as reserves, gold or GLD becomes an expendeble asset.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 14:32 | 515944 greased up deaf guy
greased up deaf guy's picture

ooooh... sorry.  you forgot to phrase your response in the form of a question.  :-p

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:10 | 515683 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Go have a look at Bank of Ireland. That's my suspect.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:43 | 515320 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

It's the time of the day, where we give our thanks to our Lord (JPM) for this great buying opportunity.

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:45 | 515326 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

I thought it was Praise the Lloyd???

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:06 | 515419 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Sell off day!

Sell off day!

Dance to the music!

Sung to the tune of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXI6CdTVJ-0

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:28 | 515519 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

Amen.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:44 | 515327 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

Deflation spares no asset. Like I said yesterday, Gov't actions too little too late. Depression is here.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:44 | 515328 KevinH
KevinH's picture

I'm kind with Nic Lenoir on this one. A collapse of the overrall market probably will bring down the value of gold, as decreased liquidity will force people to unwind all assets. Look at 2008, gold fell like a rock along with equities and all other commodities.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:49 | 515345 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I welcome the drop, I have plenty of cash waiting for the plunge.

Ben will print, and print, and print.

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:57 | 515638 -1Delta
-1Delta's picture

i dont mean to bring bad news, but PRINTING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MONEY SUPPLY IF CREDIT IS CONTRACTING

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:10 | 515680 macroeconomist
macroeconomist's picture

Printing HAS something to do with the money supply if it funds government spending, and hands out cash to the banks with which they can speculate on stocks and commodities..The point is which one dominates the other? Contracting credit or printing money..

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:53 | 515366 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

The only problem is that this go 'round we're throwing sovereign default into the mix

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:00 | 515402 Max UK
Max UK's picture

"A collapse of the overrall market probably will bring down the value of gold, as decreased liquidity will force people to unwind all assets."

Such confusion. Allow me to suggest a correction:

"A collapse of the overall market probably will bring down the price of paper gold, as decreased liquidity will force institutions to unwind assets. Meanwhile, the public will exploit the supposed price crash to buy physical, and the ensuing shortages will lead to a price disconnect, which will threaten to expose the comex as an irrelevance."

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:21 | 515492 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Yep.  The paper gold market really has nothing to do with the physical market at the extremes.  Bankers who make the mistake of thinking they can control the price of gold through paper are only drinking their own koolaid.  And we know what happens when bankers drink their own koolaid.  Even one drop is too much for them.  Something about zero accountability for losses is very intoxicating.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:34 | 515540 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

Bingo.

This is when/where physical gold demand will trump the 'deflation in all assets' crew.

So add implosion of many/most levered ETF & paper derivitive instruments to the list of mathematical certainties that are waiting just around the corner...

Throw out the textbooks, charts, and fundamentals. This time it's different. The 'death of the dollar' meme just went mainstream. The end game has only just begun...

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:45 | 515332 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

Must be "profit taking". By JPM that is.

Since there effectively is no CFTC, I've resigned myself to the fact that there is nothing we peasants can do other than buying physical on the dips and wait for the Comex warehouses to empty out.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:51 | 515618 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Bingo. +++++

(obligatory clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMRo5XCKddQ

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 14:10 | 515877 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Made me laugh!

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:47 | 515343 Bill Lumbergh
Bill Lumbergh's picture

Previously the dollar and gold were negatively correlated then they became positively correlated as the Euro started to break down...if we have a repeat of 2008 then take cover because everything is going to be hit by varying degrees.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:51 | 515362 KevinH
KevinH's picture

Agreed. Gold won't hit some of the bull targets like $2000, $2500, $5000, etc. until fiat currency problems arise, such as a failed US treasury auction.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:55 | 515379 Shameful
Shameful's picture

If you are using a failed auction as a signal you could be waiting a long time.  With the Primary Dealer system and the Fed's ability to go in and buy it's possible there will never be a failed auction.  If 100% of the auction can be covered by the Fed or Fed backed institutions then it just won't happen.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:03 | 515414 KevinH
KevinH's picture

Other than failed auction and govt default, what are some other ways for the USD to collapse?

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:08 | 515430 Charley
Charley's picture

Fed buys Treasury debt, Treasury buys gold...dollar is devalued.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:27 | 515515 Charley
Charley's picture

SInce the US consumer is tapped out, a new customer must be found. By suddenly devaluing the dollar against gold, capital will flow into the US seeking investment opportunities. This investment opportunity will be found in exports. It will result in the rebalancing sought as a way out of this mess.

 

China trade balance goes negative, and must either devalue as well, or become a customer rather than vendor. Ditto Europe.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:31 | 515524 Charley
Charley's picture

BTW: According to Christine Romer's study (and all other studies) on the period, recovery from the Great Depression was triggered by such a devaluation. See the wiki on this.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:31 | 515532 Shameful
Shameful's picture

But lets really look under the hood, why does devalation "work" as the claim goes.  The answer is simple it reduces wages, and with reduced wages the local workers become more competative on a global scale.  We could have a more honest system and just let wages fall naturally but that is not possible in our inflate or die system.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:33 | 515539 Charley
Charley's picture

I am not advocating devaluation -- look at my avatar closely. I am predicting it.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:39 | 515560 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Prediction is accurate.  But I merely wish to point out an often overlooked point.  Govs talk of devaluation as a panacea, when it is really just the people losing purchasing power and wages.  Naturally they can't come out and say it, but it needs to be said.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:44 | 515591 Charley
Charley's picture

+1

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:43 | 515583 Charley
Charley's picture

Everyone need to read this out of the Cleveland Fed:

http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/commentary/2009/1009.cfm

Price level targetting is as simple as pushing the price of gold higher.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:10 | 515435 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

Good ol' fashioned loss of faith.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:10 | 515440 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Chinese/Middle East dumping of USTs?

Excessive printing leading to devaluation and global puking up of dollars held in overseas reserves?

Wikileaks publishes documents proving what everybody suspects, i.e. that the mysterious buyer that stepped in to replace the Asians in Treasury Auctions is none other than the Fed itself engaged in massive stealth QE?

There are so many ways the dollar could fall off the tightrope it is walking.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:11 | 515450 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Can you post a link on that Wikileaks document?  I must have missed it.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:26 | 515507 Quintus
Quintus's picture

It was a hypothetical response to the original question regarding things other than an auction failure that could cause the USD to fail.  There is no leak, although I'll bet that the documents are there inside the Fed organisation.  Now, if only there was some way that the Fed could be audited.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:29 | 515522 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That is a possible way for the dollar to collapse.  It hasn't actually happened.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:11 | 515442 Shameful
Shameful's picture

What we already see is a slow move away from the dollar internationally.  I expect this to pick up speed.  At some point there will be a a marked increase in selling which will cascade into everyone trying to get out of the dollar and dollar based financial assets at the same time.  Hyperinflations are cuased by an erosion of confidence and everyone trying to get out of the currancy. He who panics first panics best.

What will help the dollar is instability in other currencies.  If JPM or GS were really playing ball for the US and had any patriotism they would be trying ot destroy every other currency, so we can remain dominate as the leper with the most fingers.

What I would look for is rising commodities, and more nations lightening up the USD as a % of their reserves.  Saddly when the panic to the door starts it could be explosive and happen rapidly, which is why I would not wait to prepare.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:16 | 515464 Max UK
Max UK's picture

+1

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:19 | 515475 KevinH
KevinH's picture

Maybe I'm just not understanding the situation correctly, but a move away from the dollar, as we have seen in China and Japan in recent months, amounts to the selling of US Treasuries that they have accumulated over the years. If there is a massive dumping of US Treasuries abroad, I doubt the PD can continually buying up treasuries during actions. Who are they going to resell it to? If the move away from USD picks up as you expect (which will dampen demand for US Treasuries in a major way), it will invariably lead to failed auctions, and probably in a swift manner.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:28 | 515525 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Alright let me try again.  The PD is backed by the Fed, and has and can in the future sell the Treasuries right back to the Fed.  So lets ignore the PDs.  Just the Fed can buy an UNLIMTED amount of treasuries.  The Fed can create money by hitting a keyboard so the limit to their dollar creation is probably a double-precision floating-point number (not a quad) so the amount of dollars they could print would be 1.79769313486232e308.  Now should they need to get that far then a trillion dollars wouldn't be worth the zinc in a penny.  So in effect the dollar printing power of the Fed is infinite.  A failed auction means less confidence in the dollar and heaven for fend maybe less spending.  This I do not expect to happen so even during the fires of hyperinflation I expect the auctions to be over subscribed.

I know what you are thinking "But Shameful they would have to report the INSANE expansion of their balance sheet!  And that would destroy confidence"  My response is simple, do they really?  Would auditors go in and look at the Fed's books?  Oh wait, they are completely unaudited.  So they could put whatever number they please on there.  As to the number of who buys it being released to the Treasury, they could cover it up or buy through facades like the aforementioned PD's or dummy hedge funds set up in the Caymans.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:04 | 515654 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

Shameful

You are spot on !

Thanks

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:41 | 515572 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

"Other than failed auction and govt default, what are some other ways for the USD to collapse?"

 

Oil can/will be traded in a currency and/or asset other than $USD. When this happens - and it will happen - the $USD is dead.

China can/will require that their imports/exports be settled in Yuan, not $USD. This, too, is inevitable. When the CNYuan asserts itself as a regional/global reserve currency, the $USD is dead.

There are other potential/inevitable circumstances that can/will help to euthanize the $USD... these are just a couple of examples.

 

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 14:21 | 515909 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

The Yuan as a global currency? These are communists who exaggerate and lie about their economic growth. Jeepers creepers. China...that's a daydream. The Chinese economy is more fooked than ours, good lord...they need the USA to buy their cheap crap...we don't need them, we can build it ourselves, just more expensively. 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:07 | 515426 BDF_NYC
BDF_NYC's picture

Don't be so sure. You're putting way too much faith in the system and the Fed.  Also, there's the Euro also in trouble as sovereign debt defaults approach.  Once a couple of countries default, the Euro, as well as European banks are toast.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:06 | 515425 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Yup! That's what it looks like so far Bill. 

I think you should go ahead and come in on Saturday. And Sunday too.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:50 | 515352 N Rothschild
N Rothschild's picture

gold btichez!

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:52 | 515355 flacon
flacon's picture

If we have a repeat of May 6th Flash Crash then Gold will skyrocket!

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:52 | 515359 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Buy the dips in this. 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:51 | 515360 flacon
flacon's picture

Why do people say "gold bitches"? What does it mean?

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:10 | 515445 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

There is also the "gold, bitcheZ" theme....don't forget it.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:13 | 515451 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

An inside joke, before my time here but I gather that someone like Johnny Bravo, who is big time anti-gold responded at some point to a pro-gold post with the words "Gold, bitches!" And it got picked up and repeated as a tag line by the general ZH population.

Something along those lines, anyway, maybe.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:44 | 515588 Janice
Janice's picture

You are correct.  But the original tag was "Buy gold, bitches!"  Which has been reduced to Gold, bitchez.  I have no idea who coined it...it appears so often. 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:48 | 515604 fuu
fuu's picture

Pretty sure it was Chumbawumba's tag line for a while. From the original blog days.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:58 | 515642 Janice
Janice's picture

Where is Chumbawamba?  I miss his.....

 

I am Chumbawamba!
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 15:26 | 516109 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Me too!  Come back Chumbawamba!

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 16:14 | 516331 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture
by chumbawamba
on Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:40
#147840

I am Chumbawamba and GOLD BITCHES!!!

 

 

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 18:03 | 516647 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

It's amazing what one can find in Gideon's Bible.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:25 | 515508 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

What does it mean?

Yes.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 16:12 | 516324 RockyRacoon
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:52 | 515364 VWbug
VWbug's picture

isn't a fall in the price of the thing you want to buy a good thing?

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 14:36 | 515958 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

Yes, until the day the COMEX price goes up $100+ in one day--and Gainesville coins et al aren't answering their phones.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 14:43 | 515987 akak
akak's picture

isn't a fall in the price of the thing you want to buy a good thing?

It is, when the price in question reflects the ACTUAL AND REAL MARKET!

When silver fell by over 50% in late 2008, just how available was silver for sale at those (artificially low) prices?  In case you did not notice then, I will tell you: not at all.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:53 | 515365 Jack H Barnes
Jack H Barnes's picture

Margin Call...

Someone is feeling some liquidity pain...

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:02 | 515405 DarkMath
DarkMath's picture

How naive can you get? Liquidity pain? This isn't how rational human beings with their own money on the line trade. The Comex Gold market is MASSIVE. There's plenty of liquidity to unwind a position without driving the market lower. And I know you're talking about the need for liquidity in other markets causing the selling. Unwinding a Gold Long trade in under 10 seconds just can't happen if it's your money. The trader who did this would be fired immediately.

Listen everyone. I worked on a Equity trading floor that did about %30 of the daily volume on the NYSE in the 90's when people traded the old fashion way. When you need to liquidate a position you don't unwind like this. This is complete and utter bullshit. It simply doesn't happen when it's your money on the line.

When it's someone elses money like the Government trying to drive the price of Gold under $1200 it's another story. They can print all the money they want and take it on the chin like this.

Few people get it. Look even on ZeroHedge even %50 of the comments on this post don't see anything out of the ordinary, they say "Panic selling" or "someone needs liquidity". My god if ZeroHedgers don't see the crime in progress we're fucking toast. Go back to sleep America.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:11 | 515447 Max UK
Max UK's picture

Yeah but ignorance as to these mechanics aside, zerohedgers know that the 'gold price' is a crock, and take advantage of price smackdowns to accumulate.

Knowing how we are being cheated is useful; but the critical fact is to recognise that the markets are indeed rigged.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:15 | 515457 Max UK
Max UK's picture

I didn't junk you by the way, I thought your post was informative.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:15 | 515460 nontaxpayer
nontaxpayer's picture

This.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:19 | 515481 potatomafia
potatomafia's picture

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, i am not a trader so i dont know...  But this line;

"This isn't how rational human beings with their own money on the line trade."

 

Since when are humans always rational?  What is rational to you might not be rational to me. 

You may very well be correct, i dont know..  I'm just sayin.

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:34 | 515537 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If anything does or does not happen in this market, it can be assumed to be manipulation, or an effect of manipulation.

The only way to shield yourself is to buy the real thing, and hold onto it.  Pretend you don't have it after you buy it.  Even if the price quadruples, don't sell, not unless political risk has somehow decreased in your country.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:39 | 515556 h4rdware
h4rdware's picture

Indeed. It goes a bit like this....

 

you spending your money - responsibility level = high

you spending somebody else's money - responsibility level = medium

somebody else spending your money - responsibility level = medium

somebody else spending somebody else's money - responsibility level = zero

 

...no extra points for figuring out which category these price movements typically fall into.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:56 | 515636 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

+++

You spotted it. This was a deliberate attempt to drive gold down after a pre-market surge. There was and still is the real possibility of a massive run on gold as a response to QE, alarming CPI data from China and UK overnight, and renewed uncertainty about the health of the US and global recovery. 

The Fed is genuinely worried that monetary easing (as in QE) will set of inflation. Prior to yesterday's announcement, crude stood at $82, boom time levels. Food inflation is emerging. And the dollar was on the verge of plumbing the depths. 

So the strategy was to coordinate central bank intervention this morning to raise the dollar and stomp on gold. Dollar was going to be toast without intervention. Dollar was dropping fast before the market open, then the report of a larger than expected trade deficit hit it even more. It was time to act or else say bye bye to the recovery. So the Fed coordinated a pump in the dollar when normal market forces would have carried it lower. They're doing this because they believe it will lessen the inflationary impact of QE.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:20 | 515725 DarkMath
DarkMath's picture

Maybe, but the Dollar strength is also a sign of things getting crappy in Europe. Things are much worse there than people think. The Euro is near collapse and will actually collapse if you believe in the new Nordic Euro.

Why would Gold get caught up in this? It shouldn't, people should be fleeing the Euro INTO Gold not out of it.

I could see them fleeing into the Dollar temporarily but that's just window dressing. My point is Euro weakness should mean Gold strength.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:26 | 515746 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

WTF... a discussion on ZH about a "crash the market," and "attack gold" at the London fix (11:30 EST) day to prop the USD prior to the 10 yr auction. It's been going on for over a year now... pathetic!

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:59 | 515850 Questionmark
Questionmark's picture

+

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 15:38 | 516170 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

I was ready to type a lengthy dissertation and then I found that my friend, Dan Norcini, has saved me the effort. Please take time to read this. It is 100.00% accurate.

http://jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/August1110Gold.pdf

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:55 | 515377 Misean
Misean's picture

Is it really a good idea to have so many leveraged bets balanced on the head of a pin?

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:57 | 515385 Thorlyx
Thorlyx's picture

You can also say: "gold, bitchez"

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 16:21 | 516370 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Used with a "Z" this is the earliest I could find:

 

by MsCreant
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 13:38
#166314

 

How bout the ultimate in international currency...

A little long, so we could call it the BBGB...or 3BG...

 

"Backed By Gold Bitchez"

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:57 | 515387 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Wee!  Lower damnit lower!  Get this price down so I can buy some more.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:01 | 515406 h4rdware
h4rdware's picture

Don't panic. I've been waiting for this. My silicon farm warned me.

Get the wheelbarrow ready -  and remember that wheelbarrows are reusable for different kinds of job.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:10 | 515415 The Answer Is 42
The Answer Is 42's picture

I don't think this is the Great Unwind 2, at least not yet. That needs a trigger event and I doubt 90 degree GoM water cuts it. Most likely some localized liquidation.

The fundamental underpinning for gold is not inflation, USD exchange rates, nor risk-off. It's the unwinding of the fiat currency regime. I'm quite comfortable with my long-term long gold. When Uncle Sam gets serious about preserving the reserve status of USD, then I'll abandon it.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:10 | 515443 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

That's it? $10? Man, these smacks are getting weak.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 16:22 | 516374 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

It's not necessarily the nominal amount, it's the vertical dive.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:16 | 515462 N Rothschild
N Rothschild's picture

did any of you morons ever think that the market isnt rigged and your just plain wrong? just a thought..

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:21 | 515488 Max UK
Max UK's picture

What a powerful and incisive argument. I'm sure that all us air-heads on ZH will do a U-turn & thank you for your revelations.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:28 | 515499 Insert witty title
Insert witty title's picture

wrong on short term price action and right on central banks loathing of precious metals / manipulation of gold & silver paper price can all co-exist next to each other quite correctly. Learn about fundamentals v price action before you start throwing the name calling Mr Rothschild.

oh look a junk... yawn. post a counter argument if you want to play

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:37 | 515549 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"just a thought..."

And a stunningly incoherent and grammatically incorrect one at that.

We all know the case for manipulation all to well.  It is as clear as day to most anyone that is paying attention.

Go back to sleep, little one.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:39 | 515555 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

LOL!!!!

Hey wait a minute.  The market is so obviously rigged that nobody would be so obvious, which means it's not rigged.  Unless, they are so devious that they made it obvious just to lead us to believe nobody would be so obvious.  Which means it IS rigged!

Eureka!  I've figured it out!

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:29 | 515754 Thunder Dome
Thunder Dome's picture

You guys and your gold religion are funny.  I'm long AAPL and sleep like a rock night after night.  I plan on selling out in 18-24 months at $750/share. 

 

Go buy an iPad and you too will see what's coming next.

 

Disclosure: Long Jim Cramer

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:52 | 515831 akak
akak's picture

The Cult of Fiat has vastly more, and vastly more ignorant, adherents than does the Church of Gold.  In addition, unlike the Cult of Fiat, the Church of Gold does not actively promote and engage in human sacrifice.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 18:08 | 516657 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The Cult of Fiat

The Federal Reserve system constitutes a cargo cult.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 14:45 | 515994 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

Thank you for the laugh--I was only smiling until I saw Jim Cramer's name. 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:39 | 515558 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

LMAO N Rothschild, how did you get in here? I thought you had to be able to do a simple math problem!

'Markets are not rigged'? Youve got to be joking, or the worlds biggest douche nozzle.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:22 | 515710 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Guys, NR  just fancies himself a thespian. His comments are meant to be 'in character'.

NR: funnier please.

Regards

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:28 | 515752 DarkMath
DarkMath's picture

No. But I'll give you this. The market rigging is much smaller than people think. But if you rig the right markets then that's all you need, everything else will fall into place. To Wit, if you rig the Gold market to cut off the exits then you now have a captive audience.

If you use the SLP (Supplemental Liquidity Program) to artificially bolster the Equity markets then you can "Extend and Pretend" until the cows come home.

Of course not all markets are rigged. It's all shades of gray. Where prices are set at the margin you only need to have a little dash of rigging and you can pretend everyting is ok. Remember if you're the Fed you're trying to prevent Stampeding in and out of markets. That's very unhealthy.But let me ASSURE you if the Fed and the PPT(using the SLP) weren't stepping in hear that little squeak you hear would turn into a deep metal reciprocating whine until the NYSE sent a piston through the dashboard.

If the Fed and the "Gold Cartel" didn't artificially suppress the Gold price then the Dollar would incinerate itself in your pocket as gradually and then with ever increasing speed (as the price rose) people would rush to the Dollars mortal enemy, the only real alternative to paper money: Gold.

But in the end Rigging is Rigging. You can't get a little bit pregnant.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 14:04 | 515861 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

N, GATA has been documenting this manipulation for years.  You can get a guest membership at lemetropolecafe.com for free if you want to delve deep.  

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 18:28 | 516682 VWbug
VWbug's picture

i wondered that too, apparently the answer is 'no'

(I've never seen people so adamant that they are right, yet who whine and complain at every 10 bp move against them)

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:42 | 515581 BeeTee
BeeTee's picture

This is the right shoulder of an inverse "head and shoulders."  It will not breach support at 1167.

Last call at platform $1,300....

 

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:12 | 515699 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

...with the DXY forming its right shoulder too, but not an inverted one, ho no.

Regards

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:54 | 515633 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

Anyone 'buying the dips' today will be disappointed.

It is like trying to hitchhike by grabbing onto a truck's axles as it runs you over.

10,400 in the dow is the next speed bump on the way down.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:06 | 515669 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Agreed, trying to catch a falling knife is painful... Keep the powder dry for better buys not far off...

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 16:52 | 515646 asotavb
asotavb's picture

i dont know......

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:04 | 515656 romanko
romanko's picture

hello everybody!

my first post, and my 2cents:

don't the bullion banks like to slam the POG shortly before 1pm est, or when the london gold fix is set... that might explain the timing of today's $10 drop

 

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:56 | 515842 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Welcome romanko!

Right you are... almost a daily occurance to offset the "real" after hours markets (and keep the closing gold price down), but this is a bit more purposeful! Tank equities to move money into treasuries (record auction $ levels this month and last) and attack gold to prevent the funds from seeking safety there... borrrrrring!

or

The CNBS "experts" are right after all.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 16:33 | 516421 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Many articles and charts out there to show how the price has daily rhythms.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/212107-gold-price-manipulation-exposed

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 13:38 | 515775 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

Not to wag my finger or be an Investment 101 schoolmarm, but:

At this writing GLD is down .53 %, far outperforming the SPY.  And looking at a 10-year chart, whatever efforts are being made to tamp the price of AU are failing in the long run; which is why I am locked and loaded in AU for the long run.

What conditions exist or are coming down the pike to derail that uptrend? Spikes like today's are frustrating as hell to short-term traders, which is partly why I gave that up (crop circles being another reason).

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 16:26 | 516389 Francis Dollarhyde
Francis Dollarhyde's picture

+1

$10? Really? That's it? Will anyone remember this in a week? Hell, tomorrow? The whole point of going long metals is so you don't have to scream and clutch each other like little girls at summer camp every time there's a little rumble of thunder. Unless you like that sort of thing, of course. I'm going to sit on the porch, glass of bourbon on the arm of my Adirondack chair, and enjoy the rain. It's nice. Having silver & gold makes it nicer.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 17:45 | 516626 jakoye
jakoye's picture

Nice!

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 14:56 | 516021 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

Question:  anyone want to guess what the trigger event will be to disassociate the paper gold price from the physical gold price?  I already see ridiculous premiums at Gainesville coins and the rest...they obviously understand demand is much higher at current prices than they've historically seen.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 16:34 | 516434 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

A guess is what it would be.  It will be a black swan to many, but a white swan to the ones posting here.  There is a whole flock of black swans descending on the calm waters of the proletariat.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 15:27 | 516122 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

DOW/SP500 daily charts are now bearish.

So the downtrend I first mentioned in early May this year, can now resume.

http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 17:39 | 516613 jakoye
jakoye's picture

Speaking of buying physical gold, assuming the economic collapse does come and we end up in a Mad Max-style world (I know, a stretch, but play along for a bit): what type of physical gold would be best to have? Buillon bars? Coins? And if coins, which type of coins? Kruggerands? Chinese Gold Pandas? American Gold Eagles?

This is more a thought exercise than anything else, as I'm not a believer that we're heading for any such scenario. Still, I would be curious as to people's thoughts on this.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 12:46 | 524014 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

I'd say Krugs, U.S. Gold eagles and buffalos, and Canadian coins.  Also, a couple of Fisch coin-checkers in case you're accepting gold for something and don't want to get duped.

 

I'd hedge with some silver, some FRN dollars, Swiss francs, Canadian $, etc.

 

Hedge further with ammo, bandages, liquor...

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 18:18 | 516672 VWbug
VWbug's picture

Cramer is currently touting gold, says buy it tomorrow,  what now? lol

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 19:06 | 516737 jakoye
jakoye's picture

Platinum, bitchez?

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 19:14 | 516748 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Gold is getting funky tonight. It's up huge against euro.

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 19:43 | 516802 N Rothschild
N Rothschild's picture

manipulated or not, the end result is still down, so crying about minipulation doesnt change your p/l while buying "dips" does it.

Thu, 08/12/2010 - 03:31 | 517272 Max UK
Max UK's picture

A price that is kept artificially low is a buying opportunity, especially once the reasons for suppressing that price are understood.

Look to the likelihood of fundamentals re-asserting themselves, and act accordingly.

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