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And So, My Fellow Americans: Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You ………

Cognitive Dissonance's picture




 

And So, My Fellow Americans: Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You ………

For a few months now, I've been sensing a shifting vibration in the comment section of ZH and it’s something I wanted to talk about. There’s a growing undercurrent of inevitable defeat and resignation in the air and if nothing else, we need to be aware of and acknowledge it. I suspect some of it has to do with the very nature of Zero Hedge, which has a single minded focus; to expose the ugly underbelly of the beast and its various assorted minions, lackeys, stooges and front men. So the range of comments that are "on topic" will obviously be narrower (and a bit more negative) than a standard financial news blog or a general interest news site. This is to be expected. Tyler, Marla and the rest of the crew set the beat and we dance to the tune.

In addition, the invited contributors are guests of Zero Hedge and pretty much stay within the Zero Hedge theme, though poor Leo gets beat up for being realistic (some would say optimistic) in his assessment that the rocket fueled market rise isn’t over. I can't speak for the others but my sense of social grace demands that I not burden or embarrass my host by singing off key. After Tyler invited me to contribute and Marla showed me the house, my primary question was "What were the house rules"? Marla said that other than the obvious, meaning no loud parties, keep my feet of the coffee table and use a coaster under my glass, there really were no rules. The ultimate judge of whether an article is off base would be the reception it receives on ZH. She wouldn't need to run me out of town if I bombed or went off the reservation because the ZH community would do it for her. Fair enough. But this is a financial blog and I’ve often wondered where the line is between inbounds and out.

With that in mind and with sufficient rope in hand to hang myself, I’d like to start a new dialogue. There seems to be a growing survivor’s vibe on ZH that has ballooned as the stock market rise has continued in defiance of all known laws of gravity. There’s quite a bit of anticipation that the bubble’s going to blow soon and it's going to be ugly when it does. And while everyone doesn’t subscribe to this perspective, in my view we seem to be developing a herd mentality that is narrowing our focus and tolerance for contrary views. Considering this is a contrary blog, we’re becoming somewhat intolerant of contrary views. In my humble opinion these are warning signs, and this was the reason I decided to post my "How To Start A Populist Movement In Under Three Minutes" article. My intent was to break up the music mix and spin some new tunes. And as always, I wanted to spark discussion and debate.

The response was great, with many jumping in and providing intelligent and thoughtful feedback, proving once again that the real value and hidden treasure of ZH is in the comments section. In fact, there appears to be a movement growing already, with many discussing the idea of a one page synopsis of the top issues we're facing that can be quickly distributed to friends and community. This was an excellent example of proactive thinking rather than reactive, of positive instead of negative; a sign of healthy community discourse. In fact, there was an wonderful comment posted by "Bob" that I would like to (in part) repost because it deserves closer attention. He (assuming Bob is a he) brings up a valid point and something I was hoping to see. Bob said....

"I'm pleased to see this question addressed.  My perception of the ZH commenter community's evolution from the beginning to now is that the herd here has developed ever more sophisticated rationales, analyses, arguments and proofs, excuses, etc., for fatalistic surrender to impotence in the face of the criminal mass clusterfuck by the banksters and their minions. This strikes me lately as the perfect soil for a non-movement . . . a potential crop that just never germinated. If I were a NSA psy-ops guy, I can see that clever passivity would be a great thing to cultivate as cool enlightenment. I would indeed like to see something different here, however."

Further down, in response to some back and forth commenting, Bob makes another valid point. He says……

“I do understand the math, B9K9, but I don't understand sitting back.  That posture may be good for the individual, but the larger community (it seems to me) deserves more from the people who are most knowledgeable--meaning much of the ZH readership--than for us to circle our wagons and simply await the fireworks together. I understand the odds of it making any difference, but it strikes me as throwing in the towel. Do I have an active alternative to offer? Not in cyberspace, I'm afraid.”

The focus of my articles and comments, particularly since I was invited to be a contributor, has been to see the bigger picture, to look within the mind as well as over the hill, to see beyond the single minded perspective of “the one” and gain the perspective of the many. If we were to dogmatically follow a path of strict self interest in our thinking and actions, the community as a whole, whether in cyberspace or in earth space, would rapidly disintegrate into a narcissistic naval gazing self centered hell hole.

In my view, Bob quite eloquently challenged us to see not only that we need to move beyond the self, the ego, but that we must do so, that it is our obligation as members of this community to reach out to others and return far more than we consume. He’s talking about the selfless impulse of community service in whatever form it may take. Bob is challenging us to put our money where our mouth is and do something rather than just talk about it. His comments certainly hit home with me. While my message has been consistent, I’ve been timid and hesitant, reluctant to push any harder than to drop ideas and concepts here and there and see what germinates. As I said earlier, some of that has to do with my position as a guest. But that doesn’t mean I couldn’t do more.

So are we just sitting around, waiting for Armageddon to arrive to prove us correct in our assessment? Are we endlessly discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin while congratulating each other on how refined our analysis is? I don't mean to be harsh or critical. ZH is by far the best blog I've ever seen, with an active community of dedicated contributors and posters of obvious high intelligence, open mindedness and tolerance for contrary views and opinions. The community is the icing on the cake Tyler, Marla and company serve up piping hot on a daily basis. Hands down, we have a great community.

But where are we going and what will our contribution be to the community outside of ZH if we’re correct and the world is headed for a very painful awakening? What if it doesn’t? We talk all the time about the sleepwalking masses. I published two articles titled "End of Empire" which obviously speaks to where I think things are headed, though I expect the unwinding to be agonizingly slow as the vampire powers extract every last ounce of blood from the body, eventually killing it’s energy source. But what am I doing about it? How am I preparing myself and my community for what I see coming? If you think this thing through, if the veins and arteries of this nation become clogged, not only will the nation as a whole suffer greatly but the communities where we live will be impacted as well.

I found myself thinking the other day that my America, the one I grew up with and took for granted, was missing in action, AWOL, gone and seemingly never to return. And I wondered what had happened. Why wasn’t someone doing something about this? Where were the responsible people? Where did “we” go wrong? How could we have let these bastards steal that which is most important to each and everyone one of us, our identity, our national soul, our presence. It feels like someone snuck in during the night and took the very essence of America. Then I realized that this essence isn’t static or stationary, that it can’t be formed into a box or tin can which is then placed on a shelf for easy retrieval when needed. It’s much more than that.

My body is not the same “body” I possessed a month ago. Most of my cells have been replaced or repaired and technically I’m not the same person I was. But obviously I am the same. This seamless transition occurs because my essence (some would say my soul) is passed from one cell to the next, with both old and new cells acting in concert to maintain and possibly improve the whole, the entity of which each cell is a part of. The continuity provided by my consciousness ensures that my essence isn’t lost as my component parts are repaired and replaced.

Thinking this through to its logical conclusion, a deep sadness fell over me as I recognized that at some point I had failed to pass on America’s essence to the next person, the next citizen, that I was in fact AWOL, not America. America is exactly what you would expect her to be after decades of neglect and disinterest, of constant use without renewal. I looked into the belly of the beast and that beast was me. If I had been upholding my end of the bargain, these bastards would not have been able to do as much damage as they’ve done. I’m not shouldering all of the blame, only my fair share of this mess. I’m not asking us to walk a self destructive path of endless guilt and despair, only that we do an honest self assessment of our own responsibilities and (in) action and then move the ball forward.

America isn’t a land mass located in the Northern Hemisphere between the Pacific and Atlantic. America isn’t 350 million people who live within its boundaries nor is it a government drifting dangerously close to a rocky shoal in uncharted waters. America is none of these things. America is an idea, a concept, a state of mind, the cumulative product of the collective consciousness of not only its inhabitants, but of the 6.6 billion humans who live outside its borders. Which means America can renew and rebuild as quickly as we wish, for the reality of this renewal can materialize as quickly as our imagination can create it. We can change everything in an instant if that is our wish.

For example, I can instantly decide I no longer wish to be angry with my son for some silliness he may be guilty of. It’s me, and me only, who can decide at this very moment that I would rather love and hold him tight than spend another minute angry about something of no consequence. This conscious decision, not anything my son did or didn’t do, is the spark that creates the change that then effortlessly materializes. No one “makes” me angry, sad, glad or frustrated. It’s always my choice, my decision, what my reaction or perspective will be, regardless of outside influences. I decide what state of mind I possess and what will be presented to the world from one moment to the next. To blame anything or anyone else for my state of mind is nothing more than blame shifting and the ultimate in self deception. The same applies to all of us; to that state of mind we call America. This is our center, our energy source, where our true power originates. It can never be taken from us, only given away because we’re either ignorant that we posses it or tricked into believing it doesn’t exist at all. 

The American renewal could begin in an instant if only we make the conscious decision. When done, it would quickly be followed by the fleeing sorcerers and magicians. It’s so deceptively simple that it remains incomprehensible. The powers-that-be have tricked us to believe that only they possess the power to change what we see. So while fully armed but convinced we are defeated, we hand over our power and turn back to our bleating. The powers may appear to be supremely arrogant, but they’re also aware that the time bomb is ticking. They’re more frightened of us than we are of them and the evidence of this is in their preparations for the end.

While there are always a thousand and one reasons not to do something and sometimes just one or two in favor, the consensus roadblock to change is awareness and self-actualization, brought about through organization. Here is a brief excerpt from the book “Here Comes Everybody: The Power Of Organizing Without Organizations” by Clay Shirky. 

“For most of modern life, our strong talents and desires for group effort have been filtered through relatively rigid institutional structures because of the complexity of managing groups. We haven’t had all the groups we’ve wanted, we’ve simply had the groups we could afford. The old limits of what unmanaged and unpaid groups can do are no longer in operation. The difficulties that keep self assembled groups from working together are shrinking, meaning that the number and kinds of things groups can get done without financial motivation or managerial oversight are growing. The current change in one sentence is this. Most of the barriers to group action have collapsed and without these barriers we are free to explore new ways of gathering together and getting things done.”

For thousands of years, each successive generation of the powerful have perfected the techniques and methods used to distract, deflect or destroy populist movements that have a dynamic leader. And the belief is that movements cannot exist without a leader. The failed populist movements of the past 50 years of American history are perfect examples of this. The labor, anti-war and minority movements of the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s were subverted from within or by execution. The same can be said with the political assassinations by the state of JFK, RFK and MLK, to name just a few. To think that such overwhelming forces could be subverted by a leader of a nascent movement is pure folly. You do not attempt to meet head on any forces that are overwhelming. But, what keeps the powerful up at night is precisely the opposite, a leaderless movement that can’t be appeased, divided or decapitated. And since the mechanisms of communication for leaderless organizations are now a central part of the economies of the world, the tools we can use to create this movement can’t be taken from us without crippling the powerful as well. Power to the people now has a new and more powerful context in which to germinate and bloom.

A very famous line from John F Kennedy's Inaugural Address of January 20, 1061 has been rattling around in my head for weeks. Kennedy was attempting to tap into the soul and creative spirit of America with his signature speech, and he continued this theme during his tragically short presidency. JFK was not only trying to wake a sleeping giant, he was doing something far more dangerous to the entrenched powers-that-be. He was attempting to transfer power back to Americans by inspiring Americans. He was showing us that we can, that we should, that we are in fact obligated and responsible as citizens of this nation to give more than we receive. Most importantly, he was telling us with actions and words that by doing so; we grow stronger both individually and collectively. This is a concept we take for granted when dealing with our families, but we’ve forgotten it’s also our responsibility and reward as citizens of this nation and our community. We complain that we’re called consumers rather than citizens. Do we deserve to consider ourselves citizens? Do we honor the concept of citizenship with little more than our rhetoric?

So with apologies to Tyler and Marla if I'm breaking the house rules and in the spirit of the season of spring renewal, I’d like to ask the ZH community what we think each of us might do to move the ball forward. Short of moving into an underground bunker with a stash of dehydrated food and emergency supplies of Playboy magazine (or Playgirl for our female contingent) if or when the breakdown comes, we'll still be living in our community and thus we'll need to make do with what's in place at that time. What can we do on a local, regional or national level that will improve our lot in life as a community and as a nation, now or later? How can we organize without leaders? As far as I’m concerned, anything goes and no comment should be shouted down as silly because quite frankly, we really have no idea how this will play out.

As inspiration, below please find Kennedy's inaugural speech in its entirety. Ready.....Set......Go!

 

Vice President Johnson, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Chief Justice, President Eisenhower, Vice President Nixon, President Truman, reverend clergy, fellow citizens, we observe today not a victory of party, but a celebration of freedom—symbolizing an end, as well as a beginning—signifying renewal, as well as change. For I have sworn before you and Almighty God the same solemn oath our forebears prescribed nearly a century and three quarters ago.

The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe—the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.

We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans—born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage—and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this Nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

This much we pledge—and more.

To those old allies whose cultural and spiritual origins we share, we pledge the loyalty of faithful friends. United, there is little we cannot do in a host of cooperative ventures. Divided, there is little we can do—for we dare not meet a powerful challenge at odds and split asunder.

To those new States whom we welcome to the ranks of the free, we pledge our word that one form of colonial control shall not have passed away merely to be replaced by a far more iron tyranny. We shall not always expect to find them supporting our view. But we shall always hope to find them strongly supporting their own freedom—and to remember that, in the past, those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside.

To those peoples in the huts and villages across the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required—not because the Communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.

To our sister republics south of our border, we offer a special pledge—to convert our good words into good deeds—in a new alliance for progress—to assist free men and free governments in casting off the chains of poverty. But this peaceful revolution of hope cannot become the prey of hostile powers. Let all our neighbors know that we shall join with them to oppose aggression or subversion anywhere in the Americas. And let every other power know that this Hemisphere intends to remain the master of its own house.

To that world assembly of sovereign states, the United Nations, our last best hope in an age where the instruments of war have far outpaced the instruments of peace, we renew our pledge of support—to prevent it from becoming merely a forum for invective—to strengthen its shield of the new and the weak—and to enlarge the area in which its writ may run.

Finally, to those nations who would make themselves our adversary, we offer not a pledge but a request: that both sides begin anew the quest for peace, before the dark powers of destruction unleashed by science engulf all humanity in planned or accidental self-destruction.

We dare not tempt them with weakness. For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed.

But neither can two great and powerful groups of nations take comfort from our present course—both sides overburdened by the cost of modern weapons, both rightly alarmed by the steady spread of the deadly atom, yet both racing to alter that uncertain balance of terror that stays the hand of mankind's final war.

So let us begin anew—remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness, and sincerity is always subject to proof. Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate.

Let both sides explore what problems unite us instead of belaboring those problems which divide us.

Let both sides, for the first time, formulate serious and precise proposals for the inspection and control of arms—and bring the absolute power to destroy other nations under the absolute control of all nations.

Let both sides seek to invoke the wonders of science instead of its terrors. Together let us explore the stars, conquer the deserts, eradicate disease, tap the ocean depths, and encourage the arts and commerce.

Let both sides unite to heed in all corners of the earth the command of Isaiah—to "undo the heavy burdens ... and to let the oppressed go free."

And if a beachhead of cooperation may push back the jungle of suspicion, let both sides join in creating a new endeavor, not a new balance of power, but a new world of law, where the strong are just and the weak secure and the peace preserved.

All this will not be finished in the first 100 days. Nor will it be finished in the first 1,000 days, nor in the life of this Administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But let us begin.

In your hands, my fellow citizens, more than in mine, will rest the final success or failure of our course. Since this country was founded, each generation of Americans has been summoned to give testimony to its national loyalty. The graves of young Americans who answered the call to service surround the globe.

Now the trumpet summons us again—not as a call to bear arms, though arms we need; not as a call to battle, though embattled we are—but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, "rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation"—a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease, and war itself.

Can we forge against these enemies a grand and global alliance, North and South, East and West, that can assure a more fruitful life for all mankind? Will you join in that historic effort?

In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility—I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it—and the glow from that fire can truly light the world.

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.

My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.

Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own.

 

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Mon, 04/12/2010 - 12:31 | 296497 Lazarus Long
Lazarus Long's picture

thanks for the post I have been feeling the same way for awhile. I just could not have expressed it as well as you did. I would like very much to work with others on how we can put together plans to help out our communities. During the 1st great depression the mormons were able to survive and refused federal help. We have to look to the past and see what works. I would be very happy to do research, collect data and ideas for us to share.

thanks again for the post

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 17:23 | 290630 Bud Fox
Bud Fox's picture

Thanks CD (and everyone else who has contributed).  There is a lot of energy, isn't there?  Lots of seeds have been planted.  Remember, each seed contains the DNA for the entire tree. 

 

A dream that doesn't involve concrete plans is a seed.  The concrete plans are the trees that grow from the dreams.  Dream first.  Then Plan.  Then do. 

 

My Plan:

1. Keep planting seeds.  Not everyone is open to the full truth in the face all at once.  Most aren't.  That's what cognitive dissonance is all about.  To change this, drop hints, say only what your audience is ready for.  If it resonates they'll ask for more.  If they aren't ready, just be patient and let your comments percolate.  Ask yourself how many have woken up in the last 5 years?  A lot.

2. Use your own discernment, and encourage others to do the same.  The truth "feels" right.  Utilizing feel doesn't exclude use of data, proof, evidence or objectivity.  But neither do those things preclude the use of "feel."  How do you know true love?  It just feels right, no?  Relying only on external forms of validation sets you up for deception.

3. Know where you are.  Know where you're going.  Make your plan.  Go do it. 

 

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:53 | 289991 Rick64
Rick64's picture

 We need to unite people on key issues. We can look to leaders that have changed history on issues that at the time seemed unchangeable.

 Ghandi united Muslims and Hindus , which in itself was a monumental task, against an empire seeking to capitalize on their country. Eventually the British had to concede defeat being unable to keep their companies going without workers. There is much more to the story, and his many achievements.

 Martin Luther King united the black american population against the many discriminations against his race. Remember he faced great opposition. The whites were still hanging black people among other atrocities. (I am embarrassed by these atrocities as an american) He conquered this discrimination with marches, protests, and boycotts. The blacks refused to use the bus system in many areas causing a collapse in revenue. They refused to buy at certain stores or businesses.

 In the Ukraine the people stopped working and protested in front of the government buildings due to rigged elections, and succeeded in having the election overturned.

 The answer short of a revolution, which would cause chaos and considerable loss of life, is to have an impact on their revenue through peaceful means. To unite on key issues that most people view as injustices regardless of race, politics, and religious beliefs. One such issue is banks. I think this would be a first step and a confidence builder for the movement. I would sacrifice everything I have for change in the U.S. it is a great country but heading down the wrong path. I apologize if I have repeated anyones comments as I am pressed for time and was unable to read all 350+ comments. We all must be willing to sacrifice at the very least our time and energy. I have been waiting for this post for a long time and hope the flame is continued and not allowed to burn out. Recession or hardships are no excuse for inaction.

Thanks CD for this post.

 

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 10:43 | 289641 GerritB
GerritB's picture

Great post!! This describes exactly my frustration: I would like to do something about it but something tells me it's too late. The world has gotten ill and needs a crisis to get better. Only the question is will it become better after a crisis?

What can we do about it?

- Politics: Lost my confidence in politics long ago so that way is not an option for me.

- Violence: we are way too weak to fight this and I think violence is not the way to beat this....

- Protest: Protesting will do nothing but cause social unrest.

- Starve the beast: if enough people would do it, this could work...

- Organize: organize ourselfves the same way the elites did since many years....will be time costly...

So for now I still go to work and have a good time with my family and friends but have no future plans for a carreer. Just thinking about how to exit the system and start living a good live without being a debt slave and support this very sick system.

 

 

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 19:01 | 289154 TJ00
TJ00's picture

First we must identify the problem(s), I would suggest there is one single metaproblem that is the cause of all the manifest ones. Simply that there is no system to ensure that truth (i.e. verifiable by evidence) wins over falsehood (i.e. what we are told by those who deal in falsehoods). Now there are forums in which this is supposed to happen whether elections, or courts, however these have been corrupted themselves. In elections there are candidates for political parties who deal in falsehoods as a matter of course. In the court system there are a few lawyers who will defend people who are deliberately unjustly accused but there is no group of lawyers who will act to bring down those in power who use falsehoods to harm the population even though these are defined either as criminal offences or unlawful civil actions. If people here at ZH wanted to actually change something for the better then perhaps the private prosecution of a major figure would be a start. However I doubt at this point this would significantly change the outcome we are headed for. As plenty of people here and elsewhere have concluded it seems that like Wyle E. Coyote the social, political and economic system we are a part of is already over the edge of the cliff, and while the 'authorities' spin their legs frantically in mid air the eventual outcome will still be failure, how that failure is manifest and when it occurs I do not think is knowable as it will be determined in large part by what actions these 'authorities' take. I would propose that much like the unpalatable story in Terminator 3, it should not be our goal to try to stop the inevitable, but to-

1. Survive it.

2. Ensure that the means that others may use to cause any great harm should be secured, as the US government helped ensure that when the USSR collapsed the nuclear weapons did not fall into the hands of those who would use them in a first strike.

3. That those who have been the fount of all the falsehoods that have caused this mess are removed from society.

4. That system that is built afterwards is capable of being self-correcting so that the same fate is not revisited again.

While I know the points above seem vague, I have deliberately left them that way in order not to jump to any preordained solutions.

To address the point about leaderless organisations, what is the organisation going to do to solve the problems within the current societal structures? Looking at history we see punctuated equilibrium in the realms of biology, society  and even scientific theory, it seems we are close to one of those punctuation marks in history, unfortunately rather than being a technological singularity that propels us exponentially upward it is the financial and political black hole that is sucking us in.  

While I understand that Kennedy's inaugural speech is posted to be inspiring it still comes from that place of false 'authority' rather than espousing any verifiable truth, such as references to God being the arbitar of Human Rights, and unless we get away from contructing our society on religions, myths and general nonsense we will continue to repeat the mistakes of the past in new ways until we make the mistake that ends us all, forever.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 23:53 | 289375 tomdub_1024
tomdub_1024's picture

"unless we get away from contructing our society on religions, myths and general nonsense we will continue to repeat the mistakes of the past in new ways until we make the mistake that ends us all, forever."

Studying the Buddha, Jesus, the Upanishads, pre-Christian European spirituality, I always am left with the gut feeling that, just studying the words reportedly said, and the archetypal concepts (e.g., the Norse gods, in the end, would fail), that they actually meant to release us from "organized" (hence, hierarchal power structures) religion.

Just a thought from time to time, that, we are supposed to figure it out ourselves. That its already there, we just do not/choose not to see it (whatever "it" may be).

But I very well may be wrong.

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 16:12 | 288988 hambone
hambone's picture

I love my wife - I explain to her the problems we are facing as a nation, economically, politically, morally...blah, blah. 

But her perspective is always, so what?  What are you going to do about it?  What do I want people to do about it?  Do I (we) want a solution or are we looking for a spectacular collapse?  Those looking for, desiring the collapse, please resolve to go elsewhere.  If you have children, family, loved ones - advocating for the system to implode is the most dangerous, instable result possible.  It is also the laziest path...an excuse to do nothing and pretend you are doing something.  I know the idea of punishing the wicked and retribution sounds good but it is ultimately juvenile and leading us further away from the desired end state. 

We are all allowed our beliefs that this peaceful transition may not be the likely course of things but I feel that a better world (reinstatement of respect for the laws of our republic) should at least be the guiding principle.  Cheering for collapse will not win many converts (nor should it). 

Bottom line, we can't simply be against the status quo, we have to resolve to be for something.  We need to discuss a better place and how we get there...why we Americans want to go.  It's that "something" I want to hear more debate around here on ZH.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 17:02 | 289071 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

[We need to discuss a better place]

A suggestion for a thread comes to mind:

"What is that better place? Describe in detail in 500 words or less."

I predict that it will be shown we will not agree entirely on what constitutes a better place. Demonstrating that alone would be an interesting exercise. But I imagine we would be found to agree broadly on something.

That something, then, for the win!

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 15:42 | 288935 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

I'm pretty sure it was the 1988 Dem convention, Jesse Jackson gave one of his really stirring speeches and pretty well stole the show.  Afterward, Ted Coppell was interviewing him, all goofy and fawning sort of, anyway he says (I paraphrase) "Jesse, how do you do that mindbending rhetorical thingy?"  Jesse drawls, "Well Ted, they give me they energy and ah give off heat and light.."  Any who, thanks for the heat and light.  You really put a lot of thought and effort into your post and it is appreciated.  I agree with what I think is your premise that change comes from within and that when enough people reach that point in their hearts where they can clearly see the truth that greed = insanity then positive change will come as naturally as breathing.  And looking back it will seem so simple.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 16:04 | 288985 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Wow, what a complement. Thank you.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 15:12 | 288882 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

The idea that we should reinvigorate the American dynamic and re-create the American dream is a good one.

I'm not as certain one can say for sure what that dynamic and what that dream were, as they varied over time and during successive waves of immigration. Perhaps the dream was only ever that people be allowed to dream their dream.

But that works too. So:

I have my own thesis. I sense that the Western experience only narrowing escaped from the clutches of the period of time now called (inappropriately) the Middle Ages. The Western experience only narrowly and temporarily escaped the clutches of the noble-born, Church dogma, class society and debt slavery. Only narrowly escaped into a sheltered place of relative peace and prosperity where people could dream their dreams. And only for a moment. For at least 100 years those forces have been reeling us all back in with the sweet siren song of easy living and easy money under the velvet fist of authority and compliance.

And I'm not even a Communist by nature. I'm a trained biologist. But being that, I understand the importance of subtle forces.

I say that we should not view the Middle Ages as the middle of anything. We have not arrived anywhere useful (assuming the destination is more important than the journey) and we can see that we will not be allowed to journey much further by the noble-class. We got a little off our leash, and we are being yanked back.

But if we value dreaming and the right to dream -- my dream, your dream, every one's dream -- then we cannot allow them to succeed. They will succeed only if we agree that we will give up our dreams.

A funny thing happens if you have a dream to do something. You are motivated from a deep place were mere adversity and fear cannot hold you. Your dream becomes your light in darkness, your compass in confusion, your power against the casual but lethal forces of institutionalized hopelessness.

And your dream can be shared. Your dream if it is a good one can authenticate the dreams of others, give them hope from nothing, bring them along with you, create an army of dreamers of many dreams who can and will and must move forward.

We speak of the American dream. There was not ever a single dream, this idea is the insidious propaganda of the elites. The dream was mine and yours and whatever moved us forward and brought us up and made us climb.

And the way forward for Americans -- and global dreamers in very corner of the planet -- is to exercise our natural right to quietly and gently and kindly chase our dream. To aspire to other things and other ways and to go where our dreaming takes us.

The way out of the trap is to follow your dreams, to articulate them and sing their praises, and to gather other dreamers around you and together find that sweet valley of possibilities.

1) Support dreamers. Remind them that they are the very soul of the world.

2) Defend your dream. Know what it looks like, protect it like a friend.

3) Dream large. Let your dream include as many people as you can gather behind it.

4) Dream small. Dream of simple solutions as often as complex goals.

5) Dream the future. The future is not coming -- rather it is being born.

Someone will say these are not concrete directions. Beware the person with a list of things they want you to do, is all I can say. Dreams drive us but they are living things, not machines, and real dreams are not a cookbook but a map. For those that want concrete measures, my first (and only) directive would be to Know Your Dream.

Thanks to CD for taking the time to bring people to the threshhold: Many will not pass through, but then many will and ere the end that may prove enough.

cougar

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 16:06 | 288989 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You just gave me enough material for a few more articles. I will makes sure and reference you're contribution for I'm just taking dictation when I write. But I'm finding (unsurprisingly) the comment section is where the ideas are. I just need to transcribe and type.

Thank you!

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 14:56 | 288857 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Great work CogDis, if we all had more Jerry Maguire moments...

respectfully

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 13:11 | 288691 Nobody
Nobody's picture

As I read the comments it occurred to me that these people who read and post on this site have many and varied opinions ranging from "Truthers" to "Posse Comitatas", but the glue that holds all of us is the understanding that the financial game has been rigged.  The "Getting Away With It" look, as Ayn Rand would say, and the Outrageous Lies and Attempts to Besmirch any and all who deign to speak truth to power.

The only answer to this lies in our own families' histories.  Each one of us are descended from men and women who fought their soverign powers (either economically or politically) until deciding to emigrate to a country that allowed them the opportunity to succeed or fail without anyone's approval.  We are that juncture today.  My take is to fight for what's right and true in regards to the health of this nation, but always keep the backdoor unlocked.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 11:55 | 288573 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

Violence is not an implicit component of revolution necessarily, but it becomes necessary when corrupt leaders and

governments remain intransigent and incorrigible. This, after all, was the belief of the

men some refer to as the Òfounding fathersÓ, and was the mechanism through which those

revolutionaries established their so-called democracy and overcame the perceived

tyranny of their time. No distinction should be drawn between the perceived tyranny

faced then and the authentic tyranny the citizens of America face today. Accordingly,

revolution should not be viewed as an archaic and unrealistic fringe ideology, but instead

the obligation and right of any people engaged in resistance to unjust and spurious

governments.

 

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 11:54 | 288570 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

 

It is a forgone conclusion that people who hold wealth and power, intoxicated with the

privilege it affords them, will never relinquish or share it willingly with the masses

surrounding them even though not to do so inevitably endangers their status and the

sources from which their wealth is derived. If Americas illusory democracy is ever to be

replaced by an authentic and vibrant democracy it is obvious that what is to be doneÓ

cannot be what has been done up until this day.

 

 


 

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 11:26 | 288530 DOT
DOT's picture

All politics is local my fellow citizens.  ZH has a fine community of thoughtful analysts, and  ( I'm not bragging ) a few blow hards.  Kudos to CD for his measurably provocative essay. I will be keeping my stash of essentials, but I have offered to assist my county supervisor with what I have found to be an incredible work load. Many local pols are burried by propagandists and activists that operate from the national level. My goal is to somehow save myself  and my fellow citizens from some of the incursions into our liberties and purses. If things become as bad as some of you now expect what better a place to plan a defence than at the councils of the enemy ?  In the meantime I will read, attend meetings, and make sure I am ready to provide reliable (persuasive ?) advice to my democratically elected official.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 10:47 | 288469 Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

I remember the speech and the man; while I was only a kid, I met him twice. If you have the fortitude, go here http://collateralmurder.com/ and watch the high definition gun camera video, as the country we're asked to "do" for murders a couple of Reuters journos and six other people in cold blood.

People who insist on "thinking positively" in the face of collapse are self centered idiots, and we're in a collapse right now. A civilization based on easy cheap oil that can't get it much longer is a state in collapse. Kennedy would not have asked us to support the state or state of affairs we have allowed to take over the stage now. He had his issues, the state he ran had its issues, but don't quote JFK in some inane attempt to emulate the dancing guy in your TED video. You want your first followers? Go start a church.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 11:43 | 288555 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I'm beginning to wonder how many people actually read the entire piece or if they simply got to the first point where their ego coughed up a fur ball and they stopped to post a reply.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 15:23 | 288902 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Hehe. Welcome to the world of tweets and attention deficit disorder.

You don't have to turn them all. You only have to turn the right ones. The rest will follow because following is how they roll. It's not a bad thing. It is how self-organizing systems generate order. Spooky action-at-a-distance, but action all the same.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 15:58 | 288974 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

cougar_w,

Many apologies. When I talked about coughing up a fur ball, I wasn't talking about you. :>)

Thank you for the hand up and off the mat. I really shouldn't read the comments sometimes. I think where I went wrong this time was that I broke a rule I had, which was not to link my article to anything or anyone so as not to pick up any inference from the link to my article.

So many people just can't get past JFK and see the article. On the other hand, they may not have seen it anyway. In reality, this was a roaring success because my goal is always to encourage discussion. With over 300 comments, there is plenty of discussion.

Thanks for your input cougar.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 18:04 | 289118 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

That's me at your back helpfully pushing you into the meat grinder.

And you're entirely welcome.

{ So many people just can't get past [__________] }

Fill in the blank. I promise, someone will be offended. In some ways we've become a nation of complainers. That's probably because offense and litigation actually pays. As does bullying and intimidation. Corporate values working at the social level is not a pretty thing.

Riffing off my original comment, these are people who lack their own dreams and in their confusion about what they are supposed to do they attack others who do have them, ones who are going forward. As the Japanese say, the nail that sticks up gets hammered down. Though I think this only means one needs to have a lot of confidence in themselves and their worth. Confidence and long whiskers and quick reflexes and an exit strategy. On the other hand we cannot all be cats.

Cheers!

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 10:46 | 288468 verum quod lies
verum quod lies's picture

The piece was entitled "And So, My Fellow Americans: Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You ………", and you just stated that people: "love the celebrity. Because they tell us how to act and think, thus relieveing us from being responsible for ourselves, responsible to ourselves." Yet you "don't really care what others think of Kennedy's words nor do I care how others interpret them." I say again, those words are anti-freedom and pro-state (again, see Milton Friedman's take, which I think eloquently summarizes the meaning and intent of the words). I am sorry you don't care what I think, I'll expect that I'll get over it. I'll be careful in the future not to pay attention to what words are used or their meaning, at least on Zero Hedge. I wonder how I should now view the Bill of Rights?

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 15:13 | 288853 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Enough with this Milton love bomb thingy - the guy was a human turd

Please take the time to listen to this video which was taken in the mid 80s - notice the vain arrogance of the man and his dismissal of another economist (Hendry) critique of his theories - he tries to destroy the academic standing of the man rather then his work.

Also note the Scandinavian instinctual reaction against this alien mumbo jumbo - they would not have survived on that island for so long if they were ardent Friedmanites.

 Thee most effective critic of Friedman in this debate went on to become president of his country and now has led his country in a valiant defence from this army of bloodsuckers that invoke a discredited theory as a cloak for their criminality.

 

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1107486496526618897

ps note the sponsor for this programme - it is a bittersweet joke but quite fitting

 

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 11:38 | 288549 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You're taking my words out of context.

I didn't say I don't care what you think or anybody else thinks. I said I didn't care what people thought about (or how they interpreted) Kennedy's words as a basis for me determining how I felt about Kennedy's words. I make my own determinations rather than being influenced either totally or in part by others.

Please don't cherry pick my words to fit how you wish to view me. I deserve to be seen in the context of the entire thought. I could tear your thoughts apart if I wished to cherry pick. I'm trying to move the ball forward and I always try (but fail sometimes) to remain civil, respectful and polite.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 10:38 | 288454 john_connor
john_connor's picture

I am planning to get an amateur radio license so I can communicate with people in a different way.  Other than that my overall plan revolves around being more self sustaining and not buying things that feed the American plutocracy.

 

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 11:32 | 288539 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

That's the very first time I've heard the idea of an amateur radio license. Very interesting. Can the transmitter be converted to AM/FM from short wave?

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 12:18 | 288596 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Speaking from experience, Ham Radio is a great way to communicate with explorers set up to engage in QSL card exchanges from the South Pole. But I don't think you are going to get much conversation beyond whats your QTH, what's my QSI, 73s...

Unfortunately morse code (CW) is no longer a prerequisite. A very useful skill after the apocalypse hits...

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 11:59 | 288579 john_connor
john_connor's picture

Not sure; however I just bought the licensing manual so I will know more in a week or so.

My initial take is there ample opportunity to communicate within the amateur radio community.  Just one small spark can cause a wildfire.

Also it is a means to communicate that doesn't involve the internet or cell phones.

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 14:54 | 288851 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

keep us updated john, others are interested

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 10:24 | 288439 fat tony slim
fat tony slim's picture

words are a start. according to Peter Drucker, without any specified timelines and/or milestone, nothing actionable will come of it.

words and ideas move mountains. they have in the past, they will in the future.

strength and honor

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 10:10 | 288427 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

I never realized going broke was so ... existential!

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 11:30 | 288532 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

LOL

The concept of (paper or otherwise) wealth (and happiness) is what's so.....existential!

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 09:26 | 288376 MarketFox
MarketFox's picture

CD,

Let's simplify this.

Markets are markets. One can think of a market as a moving financial sum whose levels differ because of strong hand weak hand relationships. In almost every case, as sure as the sun rises every day; let there be no doubt that prices always climb the "walls of worry" and in terms of pricing shows what human nature is all about. The wall of worry is a set of problems that may be overcome. And in the general sense, the problems are the opportunities. But the instinctive nature of man, is to not risk not having food, and the weak hands will never buy financial assets on sale. Whereas they will buy clothing, houses, and material things "on sale".

However, instinctive to the best informed and financially equipped, just like any other bird of prey, the strong hands are seeking weak hands to eat.

Let there be no doubt, that there is plenty of media based worry, and no doubt the weak hands are reading every line.

But do note the top performing hedge funds of 2009, and do note that they had the "weak hands" for dinner. That is, they loaded their boats with low cost financials that the weak hands let go.

So remember this, as a financial person, one must view a market as a moving sum of money whereby the opportunities are the lack of weak hands present on the long side, or the abundance of weak hands on the long side.

And what would be one of today's assets that would have an extreme number of weak hands?Perhaps gold ? Or is the "boat loaded yet" for the strong hands to pounce on their prey ?

And to get back to your point, a professional financial person really should care less about blabber, and thus only concentrate on knowing what strong hand/weak hand levels are in any given asset class. And the pro knows where to start looking via media "weak hand" blabber.

So today, one knows that "weak hands" have probably not saturated the equity markets, but have probably saturated the gold markets, and have probably saturated the junk bond high yield markets.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 08:46 | 288349 fallst
fallst's picture

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/32906678/looting_main_street/print

 

This cancer must be stopped...Wall Street is pillaging us. Each and every one of us is a victim...and please close enron loophole, which is causing gas prices to go back up to 100-130/barrel. Please undo all Of Phil Gramm's work.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 06:58 | 288278 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

A LETTER TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN:

http://williambanzai7.blogspot.com/2010/04/letter-to-your-congressman.html

Your suggestions are welcome.

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 11:31 | 288537 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

do a 2nd draft as a set of haikus
(FYi : Enough is enough! = 5 syllables)
do a 3rd draft somewhere in the middle in length

if you can make it stand out on the page,
i'd be happy to take your challenge,
even if it may be only for sport at this point.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 02:53 | 289475 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

reckless hazard...boundless greed

enough already

for the squid--reform awaits

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 12:17 | 288600 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

I accept your challenge....

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 11:15 | 288508 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Your letter is much too polite.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 12:20 | 288603 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

If you turn up the flowery dialect they'll just trash it.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 17:39 | 289100 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

You can intelligently and effectively communicate anger while avoiding courtesy.  Your servants who seek to enslave you are not deserving of courtesy.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 04:39 | 288219 jharry
jharry's picture

I am somewhat skeptical of such a huge collection of grandiose ideas wrapped in ribbons of rhetoric.  Harry Brown addressed the essence of Kennedy's speech in his book "Looking Out for Number One". Brown replaced the word "country"  with "the rich".  So Kennedy, the Berlin doughnut President(Ich bin eine Berliner), really said something like this: "Ask not what the rich can do for you, ask what you can do for the rich." 

And another point, if America's blood-soaked history has a manifestation, it wouldn't be liberty. Liberty is the rarest thing, a fleeting glimpse of a beautiful woman, like the one in Mickey Spillane's novels.  To see her is wonderful; to possess and hold her requires your ultimate attention.

And as for feeling powerless against the raging 545 who rule us, we can laugh at them, vote against them, write them nasty letters, read and apply Andrew Lobaczewski's ideas in "Political Ponerlogy" (which Zig Brezinki and his ilk hate), and buy gold and silver  and take delivery. 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 06:38 | 288268 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Thank you for your view.

I don't really care what others think of Kennedy's words nor do I care how others interpret them. Since I'm responsible for my own state of mind, I really don't wish to emulate other states of mind. By adopting other people's views as my own, I'm not being true to myself.

This is why we love the celebrity. Because they tell us how to act and think, thus relieveing us from being responsible for ourselves, responsible to ourselves.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 04:04 | 288209 delacroix
delacroix's picture

failed to pass on the spirit of america? what do you think you are doing right now?you've only failed, if you believe you have. sometimes progress is slow, it took years, for the fruits of my parentage, to show up in my sons character, good thing, I didn't throw in the towel. doing the right thing, never goes out of style, and it's never too late, to make things better.  my father in law used to say, don't kick yourself in the ass, the world's full of people just waiting to do it for you. ZH is the only green shoot I've run across lately, lets nurture it.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 06:33 | 288265 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Thank you for your feedback.

"failed to pass on the spirit of america?"

Yes, as in past tense, in the past, something that happen before the present. I failed to pass it on.

And yes, I'm passing it on now, which is the reason I write publicly and why I share my honest view, not one sanitized so as not to embarrass myself. I cry and laugh and act human for others to see that it's OK, that they can be human too.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 02:53 | 288172 vainamoinen
vainamoinen's picture

gawd - it's late - - - but, anyway, we already

have the rural property, the garden, do community work, give to charity, write our representatives (they don't care) work hard, have no exposure to credit, took our $ out of the bank, love our children, hope to retire, compose music, - - - - -

And still those jerk-offs in power have it their way while I, like many here, am getting exhausted.

So where are we now? The Oligarches, in their hubris, missed the collapse the first time around (2007-2008). I think they really did believe they had it under control. Based on what went down they have had a taste of the downside and they don't like it at all.

Remember, the primary fear of those that "have" is that they will lose what they have to the mindless, unwashed hordes. This is well documented in many sources if you care to look. (I also recommend Veblen's "The Theory of the Liesure Class as a starter) They have tasted the possibility of losing what they have and are fighting tooth and nail to keep it. And, given the chance, they will, among many other things, like torch Iran if necessary, push the DJIA to the stratosphere if that's what it takes to keep what they have. This, IMO, is the reason for the low volume run-up of the last year.

Why? because they run an Empire!

After a recent trip abroad I finally realized that, at least for recorded history, the primary political myth is EMPIRE. Like the Romans, the Ottomans, the Spanish, the British before us (to name a few) the USA is in the business of Empire.

As such consider the following, which I call the 5 foundations of Empire.

1. A powerful military. (nuff said)

2. Control of a tax base and financial system. (Yes, the Anglo-American banking establishment controls "your" government. Empire doesn't work otherwise. You are, as Project Mayhem used to say, are a worker drone in the tax farm - at least from their point of view)

3. Control of the natural resource base necessary for building the infrastructure of empire. (We are, of course, at war for oil. No Empire without it)

4. A competent and engaged administrative class to operate the Empire on a day to day basis. (Problems here. US scores about 30th in recent OECD testing of 15 year olds in math and science. But we still beat Kyzrgistan and can find our way to Wally World to buy "stuff")

5. An overriding myth, often religious or quasi-religious to provide meaning for those who participate in Empire. (Now this is interesting. We'll never build a Hagia Sophia here. Not nearly enough synchronization of secular power and religious inspiration here to put a dome like that 180 ft in the air. However, of further interest is the fact that no Republicans voted for the Health Care "thingy". And Sarah and the Tea Parties seem to be getting traction, and Vermont or Texas, or somebody is talking secession - Cultural myth starting to crack?) 

Make no mistake - if you want to take on the system you are taking on the powerful and well entrenched interests of Empire known generically as the The Western Oligarchs, and they've been at it for centuries. Invisible to the public eye they are primarily known by their actions (Just ask any [still breathing] Iraqi on the street in Baghdad or entertain the vision of Larry Summers whispering sweet nothings in BarBack's ear).  

If it is true, as I suppose, that Empire cannot survive without all 5 foundations being in place then the best hope in aiding its decline is in items 4 and 5 above. Basically, as stated by other posters, do not feed the beast either physically or psychologically. Personal withdrawal from the system, a life of cash, no credit (and, if you like, PM's) understanding the truth and spreading the word etc etc will all help IF it is the will of heaven that virtue succeed.

Otherwise - -

 

p.s. Sure its true Joe Kennedy was a crook - but his son's were taken out because they had, because of Old Joe's "business dealings" an indepedent source of wealth and could not be easily controlled by the Oligarchic political machine. Besides, as CD's post indicates, Jack, as well as Robert, might have had, at least in the sphere of politics, a conscious and might start getting their own ideas on how things should be run. 

Now that's bad for Empire!

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 02:44 | 288166 been there done that
been there done that's picture

OK, How about we start a national "Beat up a Banker Day"  Just like in High School. Lets Get em!!!

If we all band together and kick their asses, we can effect change. I'm in Seattle.  I have a friend at a Wall Street Bank and I keep telling him to have a flannel shirt at the ready and to hide his tie in case an angry mob with torches and pitchforks is coming his way.

Oh, Lastly, I would say that ZH IS making a difference. Just like guitar lessons sometimes progress may be hard to detect and you may get discouraged but you keep at it and on a longer time scale progress is obvious. I think ZH is getting more and more readers AND recognition. ZH has elicited responses from the beast so someone cares what we collectively think.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 02:33 | 288163 xPat
xPat's picture

CD- Thank you for an excellent post.

I would like to respectfully observe that in my opinion, there is a quality disparity on ZeroHedge between the main blog and the comment areas. What I mean by that is that ZH is an outstanding site, and the writing is superb. It's quickly becoming THE cool investment site on the 'net, and deserves that recognition. But honestly, in my opinion the comment areas under most posts are sophomoric in contrast. Between name calling, foul language, personal insults and ad hominum attacks that seldom address the substance of what another poster actually said, I find the comment discussions to be very disappointing, and so I only seldom bother reading them. And I'm a person who really digs online discussion forums! If the discussions among readers were more civilized, I'd be a regular contributor and would read it all with great interest. But honestly it feels like high school most of the time.

This is not a problem inherent to Internet discussion forums in general. For example, the discussion forums on iTulip.com and ChrisMartenson.com truly have a community feel to them. The operators of those sites have gone to great lengths to promote a respecful community atmosphere, and it has really paid off for them in terms of quality of discussions. There are often extreme disagreements between posters, but we always seem to manage to treat one another respectfully and don't allow the discussions to devolve to the level of name-calling or ad-hominum attacks, which are commonplace at ZH.

IMO, the most important thing our "party hosts" could do would be to make a concerted effort to remind everyone that this is an adult party, and that the quality of the discussion will improve dramatically and to everyone's benefit if the civility level is improved. You really want bona fide subject matter experts to be drawn to these forums, and yes, there really are (admittedly only a few) finance professionals who share ZH's distain for Wall Street i-banks. But I believe they are being driven away by the sophomoric feel of the discussions in the comments.

Respectfully,

xPat (a full time private investor/futures trader)

 

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 20:00 | 289193 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

"Between name calling, foul language, personal insults and ad hominum attacks that seldom address the substance of what another poster actually said, I find the comment discussions to be very disappointing"

You obviously haven't read James Kunstler's blog or its comment section. That said, not all those that read and comment here are as articulate as the very capable hosts or star contributors.

I'd remind you that this "adult party" covers some very adult subjects like treasury looting, sovereign default, wealth destruction and life underwater - not just abstract concepts to many of the readers and posters who may understandably be emotional and on occasion less than rational.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!