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Another 400 Years of Tyranny?

Leo Kolivakis's picture




 

Via Pension Pulse.

It's 4th of July, markets are closed and it's quiet. Wanted to follow-up on my last comment on saving the world.
My friend sent me additional comments on ratings agencies engaging in
questionable activities after he read this Bloomberg article, Greek Debt Plan May Place It in Selective Default, S&P Says:

Standard
& Poor’s said the debt rollover plan for Greece may temporarily
place the country in “selective default” if the French plan allowing
bondholders to roll over their debt is implemented.

 

The
French proposal would qualify as a distressed debt restructuring
because it offers creditors “less value than the promise of the original
securities” and would therefore put Greece in default, S&P said in
a statement today.

 

Europe is inching toward a goal of getting
banks to roll over 30 billion euros ($44 billion) of Greek bonds,
instead of opening a hole for the official lenders to fill. French
banks, with the biggest holdings in Greece, worked out a rollover
formula that is serving as an example elsewhere, with two options for
bondholders to replace their maturing securities.

 

“It is our
view that each of the two financing options described in the Federation
Bancaire Francaise proposal would likely amount to a default,” S&P
said in the statement. “But, once either option is implemented, we
would assign a new issuer credit rating to Greece after a short time
reflecting our forward-looking view of Greece’s sovereign credit risk.”

 

European
Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet reiterated last week that
the ECB opposes “all concepts that are not purely voluntary” and called
for “the avoidance of credit events or selective default or default.”
He declined to comment on the French proposal.

 

Fitch Outlook

 

 

S&P
would assign a “D” rating to the maturing Greek government bonds “upon
their refinancing in 2011,” it added. All debt issues would then
“likely” be rated at the same level as the new Greek rating afterwards.

 

“They
are clearly creating a problem with what has been discussed,” said
Marc Ostwald, a fixed-income strategist at Monument Securities Ltd. in
London. “It’s a risky exercise and it looks from S&P’s perspective
that they’re going to take no prisoners on it. It will be a downer for
the periphery, above all for Greece, and will give bunds a bit of
support.”

 

Fitch Ratings said June 15 it would probably keep
ratings of Greek government bonds above default level if European Union
leaders go ahead with plans for investors to voluntarily roll over
their debt, while lowering Greece’s issuer rating to “restricted
default.”

 

European finance ministers have authorized an 8.7
billion- euro loan payout to Greece by mid-July, basing a second three-
year bailout package on talks to corral banks into maintaining their
Greek debt holdings.

 

Different Options

 

Under
one option of the French plan, private investors would reinvest 70
percent of their original holdings in 30-year Greek bonds, with the
remaining 30 percent paid in cash on maturity. Greece would use 50
percent of the original amount to meet its financing needs with the
remaining 20 percent invested in zero-coupon bonds through a so-called
special purpose vehicle to serve as collateral to insure the banks get
their principal repaid.

 

The new 30-year bonds will have a coupon
of 5.5 percent with a bonus based on the growth of Greek gross
domestic product of up to 2.5 percentage points. The special purpose
vehicle will invest in AAA-rated securities that will be held as
collateral to protect the banks against a Greek default or be used to
pay off the new 30-year bonds at maturity if Greece remains solvent.
The second option of the French plan foresees rolling over at least 90
percent of the maturing bonds into new 5-year bonds with a 5.5 percent
coupon.

And here are my friend's comments:

This is an example of how rating agencies have become much too powerful and where the timing of their comments are suspect.

The
plan put forward by the French Bankers is a voluntary roll-over of
debt with new agreed terms and conditions. There is no default here
just an agreement. The interest rate has been clearly set below market
but again this is voluntary.

S&P
has now stepped into the discussion and put a monkey wrench into the
process. By calling this a selective default, they trigger all
sorts of negative covenants on the existing debt as well as
cross-default covenants on other debt and any covenants on CDS written
on the existing debt.

Therefore, the rating agency
is now providing an opinion on the definition of a default. They have
no business doing this. Default is actually a legal principle and
one that only lawyers can opine on based on the specific loan
documentation between the Borrower and the Lender.

In my
view, the French banks have shown some leadership here and they should
be praised for devising solutions that help, perhaps even provide a
long term sustainable solution, rather than aggravate.

As
you can see, I have to question S&P's motivations because their
actions serve no other purpose than to add volatility to the credit
markets. Why would they choose to do this? What value are they adding
to the debt markets here? Why are they unable to wait until after a
deal is struck to assign a new rating on the Greek debt?

The
list of institutions that can benefit from this behaviour is quite
short. They need to be able to trade on the securities. This is
probably a very small subset of hedge funds or investment banks that
can actually do this.

I suspect that the existing loan
documentation is not clear on the definition of default (which is
often the case with sovereign debt). By providing their guidance,
they actually provide the foundation for legal claims for the
institutions actively trading the debt or instruments associated with
the debt.

Is this really the primordial function of credit rating agency? I do not think so.

I shared these comments with other pension fund managers this morning one senior pension fund manager responded:

The problem with default or no default lies with all the CDS protection bought and sold on Greece.
A negative basis trade, where one buys Greek paper and then buys
protection on Greek default is the problem. What does one do? I was
pitched this trade and the reverse trade as well...didn't like
both..coin flip on both! Bill Gross said it. If this doesn't create a
default then it's the death if sovereign CDS. He right and he's probably talking his book!

Apparently
many banks in Germany bought protection on their Greek paper they
own. Tough luck for them..many it was french banks that sold it to
them?

It wasn't just German banks, but German and French pension funds that bought protection on Greek paper. That's the real reason behind the Greek bailout.

I
had a chat with another Greek Canadian friend of mine, a trader in
Toronto, and we went over what's going on in Greece. Below, in point
form, are the key points from our discussion:

  • On Greek default option:
    My friend told me "they can't default before they balance the budget."
    I asked him how are they suppose to balance the budget with all these
    savage cuts and people losing their jobs as Greece implements strict
    austerity measures? He responde: "that's what happens when the IMF comes
    in, but if you exclude the interest payments that are now running
    close to 25%, they can balance the budget if they target growth." (see
    below).
  • On the "Hellenization" of Western economies: My friend told me that Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman was in Toronto last week warning against fiscal conservatism:
    “The greatest damage that Greece has done, is not the actual loss that
    will be suffered when they default, but they have warped the economic
    debate,” he said. “The fact of the matter is that nobody is Greece
    except Greece.” I submit that the economic debate was warped long before
    Greece imploded. Krugman and Joe Stiglitz, another Nobel Prize-winning
    economist, are right to point out how absurd it is to worry about debt
    and implement austerity measures when the real crisis is the jobs
    crisis. Importantly, if countries don't bolster meaningful job creation,
    then no matter what austerity measures they implement, their debt
    profile will only get worse.
  • On opportunities in Greece:
    We had an interesting discussion on opportunities in Greece. Told my
    friend that I was watching Greek news this morning, and apparently Euro
    technocrats are demanding a place in some Greek ministries to "monitor"
    activities (embarrassing but the Greeks deserve it!). Told my friend
    this is the beginning of another 400 years of tyranny for Greece: "you're going to see a fire sale on Greek assets."
    We discussed opportunities in Greece. My friend pointed out that with
    cotton prices rising to record levels in the last year, Greece's cotton industry has room for confidence.
    We talked about casinos and how Greece can easily become the next
    Monte Carlo. I even suggested southern Crete, which I consider an undeveloped paradise on earth
    (don't really want to develop it, but if done properly, this is going
    to be a huge revenue generator for the Greek government). We talked
    about Chinese-Greek, Russian-Greek and Israeli-Greek alliances to
    explore oil in the Aegean
    and to develop solar farms in Greece. As my friend said: "The Greeks
    better choose their friends in the region wisely, and if they do, these
    alliances can be mutually beneficial." The point is there are plenty of
    opportunities if Greeks get their act together. But the risks are high
    now, and one senior Canadian pension fund manager wrote me this
    morning he's not biting on Greece just yet: "I'm a little nervous about
    the potential for Greeks taking revenge for being forced into an asset
    sale. I always ask 2 questions: is this a good deal for me and is it
    perceived to be a good deal for my counter-party?" Fair concern, but I
    believe if the terms are fair, Greeks will be forgiving.
  • On Greek nationalism: Greeks
    are proud of their history and heritage. My friend in Toronto and my
    friend in Vancouver are tired of hearing people shit down on Greece and
    so am I. This morning I circulated an article on new research examining
    the cellular events that lead to multiple sclerosis
    (keep taking high dose vitamin D and N-acetylglucosamine) and noticed
    the doctor leading the group of researchers from the UC Irvine MS
    Research Center is Dr. Michael Demetriou. Told my friend: "If Greeks
    ever got their act together, we can be just as strong as Jews, but the
    problem is that Greeks only think individually, not collectively." My
    friend agreed and pointed out to the Greek shipowners making billions in
    profits and not putting the bulk of the money back in Greece. "There is
    no more pride left, no sense of nationalism." We're all tired of
    people frowning on Greece. I even got hate emails from US citizens
    telling me that Greece is the scourge of the world. I politely reminded
    these people that if the US wasn't able to print its own currency and
    if it didn't have the world's most powerful military, it too would be
    up shit's creek.
  • On American pride and independence:
    I asked my friend if he saw 60 Minutes last night and the story of
    Elissa Montanti, an incredible lady and her charity called the Global
    Medical Relief Fund (see video below). Told my fiend that I donated $100
    and that "disturbingly this lady received hate mail from Americans who
    think she's aiding future terrorists. My friend shared with me a story
    that his father shared with him. After the second World War, Americans
    came into Europe with food and clothes. They were admired and looked
    upon as saviors. No longer. Nowadays, they are looked at with contempt and disgust
    because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the greed on Wall Street,
    and the general sense of frustration that the world's greatest
    superpower is not going down the right path and dragging the rest of the
    world with it.

On that note, I'm heading off to enjoy another gorgeous day in Montreal
(benefits of unemployment and answering only to yourself!!!). I wish all
Americans a Happy 4th of July and leave you off with the story of a
great American, Elissa Montanti, an incredible lady and her wonderful
charity called the Global Medical Relief Fund.
Please donate generously to this charity and to all the pension funds
and hedge funds reading me, force your brokers to send commissions
dollars to this charity. These kids don't deserve to live a life of
agony because of greed and stupidity.

 

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Tue, 07/05/2011 - 08:54 | 1426218 bourbondave
bourbondave's picture

So, the worthless Rating Agencies finally seem to do something right by labeling a default a default, and that's wrong as well?  When his friend asks "what value do they add" and "what purpose does their actions serve", he seems to imply that the rating agencies have some responsibility to "chip-in" in Greek's debt problem.  If they were acting as they should, they should be independently opining.  If an entity borrows money to Greek (or others) for a specified term, and then does not receive their money at that date, but instead gets a new commitment to "pay you later", how is that not a default?  It may be voluntary for the French but clearly not everyone else.  If it was, then why couldn't the French banks just commit to roll the maturing debt at the massively below market rate, in a private placement?

Didn't they need 100% participation?

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 19:59 | 1425303 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

 

Here is the game Leo:

In times of balanced budgets; already taxed entitlements and pensions are underfunded and earmarks and other pork spending buys the politicians their votes while they take money under and over the table and vote for their lobbying corporate and other "donors" interests at the expense of the people.

In times of crisis; taxes and every fee imaginable are raised (first, the currency is debauched with "stimulus" spending - taxes later - fees first), debt spending is increased, the savers and responsible are punished, banks and insurance companies and uncompetitive car makers and any other crony capitalist organizations are bailed out on the backs of the workers, the retirees, the children yet to be born.  Bankers and the Wall Street Klepto-Oligarcy get bonuses, politicians get their cushy pay, kickbacks, healthcare no one else can get, and talk about "austerity" for the populace they have just bent over and raped unceremoniously.

Republicrat/Demican, Liberal/Conservative - it is all a moot point because the outcome of their gyrations, expectoration, equivocation, and sophistry is this:

Responsible Citizens = Lose

The Malfeasant mammon lusting leeches of society = Win

Thanks for wishing us Amerikans a happy Fourth; we have lost many of the freedoms that began the country, and need another war of independence.

You must re-examine your blind faith of the machine.

 

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 17:02 | 1425088 Spartaguy
Spartaguy's picture

I just ran into Jamie Dimon coming out of the Plaza Hotel bar, and he was drunk as a sailor. With his head tilted sharply towards his right shoulder, he blabbered the following to me verbatim: "Greece is done for! They're nothing but DEBT SLAVES to us! Ha!!"

No joke.

 

http://www.aintmymedia.com/

http://wisdomandword.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 16:14 | 1425012 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

So , you are Greek Canadian?  I didn't know that.........:)

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 17:19 | 1425097 akak
akak's picture

That just means that he drinks ouzo instead of Labatts while watching his hawkey, and might be marginally less neurotic and obsessive in the desperately nationalistic (but typically Canadian) psychological need to distinguish his country and his culture from that of his southern neighbors.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 16:30 | 1424994 agent default
agent default's picture

If you are going to accuse the rating agencies for on thing then that is for being too lenient/ignorant/fraudulent and assigning ratings much higher than they should. 

Hey Leo, if the Greeks and the rest of the Eurotrash don't like the rating agencies, just ask them to stop rating your toilet paper. Ask them to withdraw their ratings. 

Let every investor do his own homework stop relying on the rating agencies and discover for themselves what a clusterfuck of an economy Greece was running on borrowed money.

You will be begging for a fucking "Z" rating from S&P.  They would have to fucking invent one to  describe how bankrupt Greece is.  Either that or supply a flow chart instead of a ratting to explain how much of a deadbeat Greece is.

On a less angered note:  Yes, rating agencies are full of shit, but funny how the Eurozone discovered it when they downgrade what is demonstrably crap.  Ratting agencies have made themselves irrelevant a long time ago for ratting obvious junk as AAA.  If ratting agencies did their work properly, I can think of very few countries that would get even close to AA let alone AAA.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 15:58 | 1424979 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Leo,

 

     The Greeks jumped the shark 3000 years ago.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 15:51 | 1424967 A Dim View
A Dim View's picture

Leo

I've read a few of your posts and to be honest I don't think you really get the gist of Greece. I'm sure like most diaspora hyphen greeks (Canadian-Greeks, Australian-Greeks etc) you've spent maybe 10-20% of your life in Greece, almost exclusively on holidays. That's the extent of your Greekness. I'm not criticising, just explaining to ZHers how most Hyphens get taught their Greek heritage. I should know it was how it was taught to me as an Aussie-Greek.

Now this is also your problem. You're sitting in a land Far Far Away spouting Fairyland stuff about what Greece & Greeks are capable of. Most of it is nonsense.

I've lived & worked in Greece for 6 years now exclusively in the Banking Industry. From first hand experience I can tell you that the Greeks have earned 90% of the ridicule & criticism that has rained down on them regarding their crisis. The failure of their inability to self-regulate their societal urges to be sociopathic towards each other (let alone non-Greeks) when it comes to economic advancement is truly, utterly stunning. Almost every Greek I've met (and I've met them from the CEO level of large firms down to the local periptero newstand owner) are all engaged in active evasion of some sort. Unfortunately the top 2 evasions are 1) Tax & 2) Responsibility.

I can wholehearted say that unfortunately there's NOTHING that this country can this country can deliver on. The political class has been actively engaged in stripping this country of virtually all its wealth & transferring it wholesale to the vested interests, the business elite (ta symferonda as they're colloquially known). The business elites have bought the politicians lock, stock & barrell from the city council level all the way to ministerial level. It's so brazen as to almost to be comical. To get anything done in Greece means paying patronage fees all the way. This behaviour filters all the way through the society. Try and get a permit for anything from a visa to a property development and money has to change hands.

Most of my friends are foreigners who've come here for jobs reason & at first they're stunned at what to "western" eyes seems like endemic corruption. Within 18 months they've become "greekified" and are suddenly engaging in low level corruption just to ease their way through life here. As for my Greek friends & family, well, that's just how life is. It's what they're taught from the cradle to grave.

The Greeks have worked the Europeans politicians over in a classic sting. The Europeans have fallen for it, again, to protect their beloved Euro project & in my opinion, will try to bleed their own taxpayers to buy time, gut Greece's assets as punishment, and eventually doom Europe to a systematic sovereign default.

You & your mates attitude of finding "opportunity in Greece's fire sale" whilst simultaneously spouting "pride" at being Greek betrays just how hypocritical you are. You sounds exactly like the 300 shysters that sit in Parliament. You'd make a good Finance Minister here i think. So here's how it'll play out (and Tyler you've pretty much nailed it 18 months ago). Greece will default by October. For me the cause will be several small issues that combine:

i) depositors will drawdown savings at an ever increasing pace as fear of bank runs actually starts causing one (banks €190bn left, under €180bn & the stop providing credit to business)

ii) almost complete non-compliance by individuals & business in paying any of the new taxes in the Midterm Plan

iii) the September review by the Troika will find a spiralling 2011 budget deficit as tax revenue keeps falling on lower tax take & cratering tourism numbers. Virtually all targets are missed by the Gov't

iv) European politicians discover the 2nd bailout will go north of €150bn, ask for further austerity forcing the PASOK Gov't to collapse, with elections providing no winner & a loose undecisive coalition

v) disorderly default follows as markets hit their puke moment

ps and don't get me started on the f***ing ship owners!!

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 18:40 | 1425228 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

A Dim View,

I am 40 years old, have been to Greece over 38 times, have worked in Greece at my uncle's company (Pastika Kphth), and my sister decided to leave Canada to live in Crete where she is now raising my nephew. With all due respect, I don't need a lesson from you or Greeks about Greece and its inhabitants. My buddy worked on the largest infrastructure project there over the last four years. He saw rampant corruption firsthand and it's at the highest levels where it's really bad. Does Greece deserve this? Yes, but it's the poor Greeks and working poor that will get slammed, not the rich shipowners.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 17:24 | 1425113 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 A Dim View

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 16:22 | 1425026 akak
akak's picture

Thank you for your detailed and uniquely personal perspective on the problems in today's Greece, Dim View.  Your post above was worth more than 100 of Leo's skewed and statist, Keynesian-biased, pollyannish screeds.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 16:50 | 1425062 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I have to agree. So he is telling us that the Greeks deserve every bit of the pain that is coming their way?  That conclusion has been discussed many times on this very blog. A sad commentary.  It makes me look at us in this country and what we are facing. The trouble is here we are not all Greeks. Many divergent nationalities are here now, a far cry from what the founding fathers wanted. Another sad commentary. This diversity and multi culturism here will be the death of the west, as was intended all along because a people who are not connected by race and tribe, will never function as one and will always be fussing with each other and never moving as one, on the ultimate goal, that is , of taking back the land of my fathers, and their fathers before them.  It was stupid to sit and watch as the freemasons, installed their "statue of liberty" in New York harbor.

A plague was installed there in 1883 having the following inscription thereon:

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus, 1883

What sort of mumbo jumbo is this? Why do we need the poor starving masses here in this land? We have them already. Only idiots would listen to such tripe, written by and for jews.....(of course)....

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 08:48 | 1426207 bourbondave
bourbondave's picture

It always comes back to the jews for people like you, doesn't it?  Even a discussion on Greek debt is the jews fault.

I read through a great post by Dim View on what is really happening in Greece which exemplifies exactly why its worth coming to this site while having to still wade through the garbage from lunatics like you.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 16:18 | 1425021 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

@Dim View

 

Isn't it true, that the Greek Orthodox Church has some power in Greece and they also were involved in financial shenanigans? If you can, pontificate on that a bit if possible.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 16:42 | 1425061 A Dim View
A Dim View's picture

High Plains Drifter

 

Correct. The Greek Church has a ton of power in both indirect influence via their religious hold on people (think Catholic pressure on Irish/italian politicians) and direct influence via financial clout. Foe eg, the Church owns about 5% of the National Bank of Greece. In 2008 the Gov't bought preference shares in all the major private banks to help prop them up following the Financial Crisis. One of the prefs covenant was no cash dividends were allowed by the banks until the prefs had been paid back. The Church agitated relentlessly that they deserved their cash dividend as a thanks for providing the greeks with spiritual guidance (loose paraphrasing). All this whilst embroiled in the Vatopodi Scandal which saw them aquire about €1bn of state property for nothing from gov't ministers (Michael Lewis Vanity Fair article has an excellent summary on it).

The state pays all of the priests salaries & all other income they raise is tax-free & they have enormous land holdings (the entire 3rd peninsular of Chalkidiki is theirs - 336 square kms!!, they even forbid women entering).  LA.O.S (Popular Orthodox Rally) is a rightwing political parliamentary party who support the Church & are indirectly supported by the Church (rumoured financially as well as with lobbying).

as Greece is 90% homogenous, the Church can mobilise support for agendas which exclusively to gain some political power (dreams of the old Byzantium), protecting & growing their financial wealth & increasing their religious base.

One of the main causes of retardedness in this country.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 16:54 | 1425077 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Yep I knew it.  I figured as much. I remember reading that article you mention. I just wanted to see if you would elaborate on it since you are there on the ground, in country so to speak. Another sad commentary. Shades of the middle ages...

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 15:49 | 1424965 Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff's picture

400 years?

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 19:12 | 1425271 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeah, I let that one slide too.

Who the hell knows with Leo, probably something to do with the Ottomans but the timeline is off.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 20:51 | 1425384 akak
akak's picture

The period between the fall of the Byzantine Empire in 1453 and the restoration of Greek independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1830 was just shy of 400 years.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 22:18 | 1425521 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thanks, a little rusty in that period ;-)

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 15:45 | 1424959 dcb
dcb's picture

Look, I am not a big krugman fan. But because he is wrong on some things doesn't mean he is wrong on all things.  you could read the krugman comments as saying default and stop austerity. Which I kinda support. yes greece needs pension reforms etc. notice krugman is saying default is better than what's going on now. I fully support default instead of continued throwing good money after bad to bail out french and german banks as well as the ecb.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 14:22 | 1424781 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

"Krugman and Joe Stiglitz, another Nobel Prize-winning economist, are right to point out how absurd it is to worry about debt and implement austerity measures when the real crisis is the jobs crisis. Importantly, if countries don't bolster meaningful job creation, then no matter what austerity measures they implement, their debt profile will only get worse."

 

Leo, you are a joke and a con artist. We are seeing the effects of not being fiscally conservative as we speak, yet you continue to rant on and on about spending money we don't have. Who is Greece going to borrow from? No one is willing to lend them money. How can they spend money when no one will lend to them?

What universe do you hail from? We are seeing the disastrous effects of you charlatanism right now but you refuse to give it up!

 

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 14:39 | 1424817 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

So why not go the Greek route and implement harsh austerity measures? Good luck with that policy, I prefer to focus MUCH LESS on debt and MUCH MORE on job growth!!!

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 15:26 | 1424916 skipjack
skipjack's picture

Leo - answer one question. Do you understand the exponential function ? If so, how can you and every other Keynesian keep calling for more and more growth ?

Just in case you don't, maybe you need to review this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 16:23 | 1424866 akak
akak's picture

Your blind and blinkered focus on "job growth", like that of your fellow clueless and corrupted Keynesian brethren, in the face of escalating and patently unserviceable (much less unpayable) governmental debt, and the very real risk if not likelihood of an outright collapse of the whole rotten central-banking-controlled financial and monetary order, is akin to a farmer obsessed only with the "growth, Growth, GROWTH!" of his crops, leading him to desperately (and vainly) dump more and more fertilizer in his fields, while those crops are simultaneously being chewed up by beetles and shriveled by drought.

Really Leo, I am still open to the possibility that your outrageously insulting and egregiously idiotic posts are just purposeful fodder for heated debate on ZeroHedge.  It might make sense in Tyler's eyes to have a token statist and pro-Establishment shill here, if only to highlight the otherwise consistently anti-Establishment, anti-statist message of everything else ZeroHedge publishes, and for which it stands.

So let me ask you directly Leo: Why are you on ZeroHedge, when you so obviously do NOT fit in with the zeitgeist and overall theme of this site?  Why are you allowed to post your statist, pro-status-quo bilge here, and why do YOU even want to be associated with a website and a forum whose entire outlook and message refutes and ridicules your own?

One might suspect that after having had one's comments routinely junked into oblivion by dozens of other ZH members, one might take the hint that one was unwelcome.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 14:04 | 1424738 Zombie Investor
Zombie Investor's picture

"Nowadays, they are looked at with contempt and disgust. The War in Iraq and Afghanistan..."

So disgusted that they started to bomb Libya...

 


Mon, 07/04/2011 - 14:00 | 1424728 CH1
CH1's picture

The rating agencies are a scam. They get most of their income for doing "extra research" on companies, which results (impartially, of course!) in a higher rating.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 13:52 | 1424706 Nels
Nels's picture

... keep taking high dose vitamin D ...

How's that working out for you?   For a different opinion, and something that works, you might want to talk to Dr Blaney (Vancouver).

http://mpkb.org/home/publications/blaney_congress_on_autoimmunity_2008

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 14:56 | 1424753 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Nels,

I'm a firm believer in vitamin D. Took 30000 IUs for a year which I now cut down to 10000 IUs taken every morning in a glass of water in drop form (ddrops.ca) and feel terrific. I am also looking at starting low dose naltrexone (LDN) because many MS patients claim to seesee huge improvements. Problem is that it's cheap and neither neuros nor Big Pharma support it, but I found a doctor and pharmacy in Montreal who does.

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 10:34 | 1426417 Nels
Nels's picture

Well, I hope it works for you.  However, I do believe that high dose Vitamin D is immunosuppressive, so you would feel better, but without being better.  For my own problems with sarcoidosis/diabetes/osteoporosis, vitamin D helped me get by until I found something better, and then avoiding vitamin D like the plague was part of the cure.    Good Luck.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 13:28 | 1424617 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

***Feedback***

A reader shared these thoughts:

Your blog is of course your opinion. But I wish you would stop making blanket statements where you link "Wall Street greed" with America.

First, as I am sure you well know, Wall Street is not just a place but a euphemism for the entire financial community (theoretically, you included). As such, it has no geographic boundary but includes any and all financial institutions globally. The place itself (Wall Street, New York City) is today virtually bereft of financial institutions (with of course the exception of the NYSE).

Second, Wall Street (in this case, meaning finance or the financial industry) is not dominated by Americans. Financial professionals are of all stripes and hues, all ethnicities and religions. You are Greek-Canadian; I am Flemish-American; there are Asians, Africans, Europeans and others. As such, it is hardly a tool of American foreign policy (if it ever was).

Third, the companies that dominate this sector of the economy are also multinational. Some American firms are in the top tier but others are European or Asian as well. So again, hardly a monolith.

Fourth, as one of your other readers mentioned to you recently, you hardly endear yourself to others when you employ stereotypes in your posts. It smacks (to me at least) of thoughtless populism. It may play well when running for office to bash "greedy Wall Street" with a subtext of America, but since I don't think you are running for office, your posts (like this one) reads to me (and likely every other American) that you harbor a deeply ingrained anti-American bias. Of course if you do - and the schadenfreude you engage in certainly makes it seem that way - that is of course your right. But by stating it in the tone you do (echoes of the 'anger' that one of your buddies recently advised you on) you simply alienate us.

Finally, and underscoring my first point, Americans have no monopoly on "Wall Street greed". Bernie Ebbers, of Worldcom fame, was a Canadian. Millions of Americans took a hit thanks to his shenanigans. In my hometown of Chicago, the Montreal native Conrad Black robbed one of our two major newspapers, The Chicago Sun-Times, blind causing job losses and all sorts of grief here. In fact there is even a whole wikipedia category (which is incomplete) of Canadian fraudsters (see here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Canadian_fraudsters ) but you hardly see Americans making broad, accusatory statements about Canadians.

One concluding thought. Officially you are not selling anything. But you are in effect trying to sell yourself as an expert in the pension space (which I think you of course are). It is a good strategy and I think it makes eminent sense. Perhaps, as you have stated before, you are also looking for gainful employment based on that expertise. You can be that expert and attract comments and interaction from others without needlessly antagonizing others. At the end of the day, though, as we both know, people buy from or do business with people they like. If you start off by telling a portion of your readership how much you dislike them, they will tune you out. And then everyone loses.

To which I replied:

You wrote "stop making blanket statements where you link "Wall Street greed" with America."  You TOTALLY misread me!!! Americans are great people, which is why the world looks up to them. The current shenanigans on Wall Street are NOT what America is all about, which is precisely my point!

So please, do not take my comments as anti-American, far from it!

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 22:40 | 1425585 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yeah.  And the writer's use of parentheses is overwhelming.  The formation and uses of the myriad forms of clauses would be a nice afternoon's study for this person.

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 00:14 | 1425791 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Your writing is eerily familiar, reminds me of a small fry I fried tonight

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 01:31 | 1425855 akak
akak's picture

And your bland yet arrogant, consistently pro-status-quo-authority sentiments, as expressed in numerous ludicrously shallow and laughably insulting posts, remind me of the bowel movement I had this morning.

 

EDIT: On second thought, no --- at least my bowel movements are natural and honest, and make no pretense of being anything other than shit, unlike your comments here.

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 07:43 | 1426138 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Get your head out of your ass, will make your bowel movement a lot easier...

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 12:35 | 1426752 akak
akak's picture

We're not laughing with you Leo --- as usual, we are laughing at you.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 13:04 | 1424559 Silver Shield
Mon, 07/04/2011 - 13:01 | 1424551 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I understand.  Your thanks are greatly appreciated "down South" as well.  What i have learned about myself is what bliss Americans have in being totally ignorant of history period.  Don't even get me started on the Yankees and winning however.  Clearly if the USA was ever offered a dog in this fight it did not take it.  I fail to see of course how the collapse of Greece should it occur benefits anybody.  Indeed it sounds like more problems for the White House and the USA government in general to deal with.  Certainly you're not arguing that particular and always forgotten sector doesn't already have its hands full, non?  Unless of course you're arguing that Greece is about to start something...Is that what you're arguing here?

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 12:59 | 1424542 automato
automato's picture

If I do not receive EVERYTHING that I was promised then it is a

DEFAULT!

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 12:56 | 1424529 Financial Newbie
Financial Newbie's picture

"I submit that the economic debate was warped long before Greece imploded. Krugman and Joe Stiglitz, another Nobel Prize-winning economist, are right to point out how absurd it is to worry about debt and implement austerity measures when the real crisis is the jobs crisis. Importantly, if countries don't bolster meaningful job creation, then no matter what austerity measures they implement, their debt profile will only get worse."

 

Hmm.  Seems like a "chicken & egg" kind of argument to me.  They can create more jobs, but at the cost of more debt.  If they don't take care of debt, those jobs they should be creating may be created at a net loss and continue to inflate the very debt they hope to pay off by having more jobs.

 

An example of this might be the "McJobs" that are being created in the US.  I don't know for sure, but I wonder if these jobs are creating enough value (i.e. enough tax revenues) to cover the social services & programs being promised by the government.  I don't know what is promised to Americans, but in Canada we sure do offer a lot of services & programs at a considerable expense...

 

Anyways, what my crazy brain has (perhaps) learned from this:

 

a) Try to increase the value that each job produces as opposed to just increasing # of jobs, while at the same time cutting back on the unrealistic promises you've made to the people (of course, this could also be a receipe for class warfare by marginalizing the poor...); and

 

b) Once you've f*cked yourself, there's no easy way to unf*ck yourself.

 

Maybe b) is the more important lesson all people should learn...

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 12:36 | 1424475 jippie
jippie's picture

How is it possible that people actually intend to take these ratings into considerations is a mistery to me?! THey argued themselves in court that their rating is just an opinion and now we are meant  ouse this opinion to trigger all sorts of legal contracts?

WTF!

Who cares what rating agencies say. The Europeans could simply say.

well your 'opinion' is very interesting but we don't give a shit!'

the ECB should change its procedure of relying on their ratings after the agencies themselves have said that these are just opinions and should not be used to make investment decisions.

 

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 13:05 | 1424558 Popo
Popo's picture

Yes.  But remember that every CDS contract has two parties on opposite sides of the table.

Sparing the big banks from billions in CDS contracts, is the same as depriving some other parties of billions.

There are two sides to every trade.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 17:14 | 1425102 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

IF you have the equivalent of the derivative, then you are hedged, you are insured and indifferent to the outcome

Otherwise, you are placing bets on the chance of your neighbor's burning down. With a lighter in your hand

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 22:55 | 1425665 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

From The Daily Bell:

EU Yard Sale: Location Greece – Everything Goes!

Monday, July 04, 2011 – by Staff Report


Jean-Claude Junker

Greek sovereignty to be massively limited: Juncker ... Greece faces severe restrictions on its sovereignty and must privatize state assets on a scale similar to the sell off of East German firms in the 1990s after communism fell, Eurogroup chairman Jean-Claude Juncker (left) said. – Reuters

Dominant Social Theme: Greece must be crushed so that it can rise again. The European Union alone is that bright, shining light on the hill that will illuminate truth and lead the way to rescue.

Free-Market Analysis: We can see from the above article excerpt in Reuters that the Eurocrats are wasting no time in stating what they intend to do to Greece. Jean-Claude Juncker, Prime Minister of Luxembourg and President of the Eurogroup, has gone out of his way to make an extraordinarily blunt statement. Greece is to be dealt with like East Germany. Its bloated public sector is to be liberated; its tax system weaponized; its public efficiencies modernized.

What Junker doesn't say is that the approach taken towards Greece is one typical of the International Monetary Fund (IMF). What he DOES say is, nonetheless, remarkable. It is a dominant social theme of sorts. "Greece" has requested help and the "European Union" has responded.

Read More

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 13:39 | 1424651 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Wouldn't it be deeply ironic if credit default contracts do not in fact define exactly what constitutes default.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 11:57 | 1424374 nmewn
nmewn's picture

From Krugman's article you linked...

“We’re living in a time in which, for the time being, virtue is vice, prudence is folly.”

There is nothing virtuous or prudent about throwing good money after bad.

The man is obviously insane.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 15:18 | 1424899 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 Oh Yes; Indeed. He's one more Nobel Prize Winner who should be made to wear an "I am a fruitcake" tiara when he appears in public. Definetely ga-ga.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 11:47 | 1424349 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

I suspect the CDS are the only reason anyone pays attention to the rating agencies any more. It's just a side-bet on what they are going to say, and apparently some folks have placed some large ones.

No off-the-record derivatives, and rating agencies are suddenly irrelevant.

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