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Another Amusing Media Interlude

Tyler Durden's picture


Yet another amusing media interlude. Zero Hedge appreciates the gossip pages' attempt at profiling our zany cause. Even if, as the case may be, these particular gossip pages are in fact owned by the very same Establishment that our "conspiratorial" disclosures attempt to represent for the motivated and deeply embedded wealth redistribution enterprise it is.

And while Mr. Hagan's reporting could have been better served with some more directed fact checking and appropriate disclosures (least among them being the representation that our "off the record" solicited information has helped additional relevant articles, namely, and ironically, this very one) it does highlight a critical point: when discussing financial matters, the "financial media" represented by "Establishment" type reporters and bloggers, just like the financial "regulators", is woefully behind the curve. For Wall Street (a place where the smartest come to roost but not for the sake of being smart, but merely to outthink other smart people in the perpetual quest in gaining a infinitesimal profit generating arbitrage), the race to the top means simply a race to find a new loophole, obfuscation, or a new form of informational "asymmetry." Proper and timely interception of these misguided Wall Street interests by the old media system has failed, pure and simple. While one can lay the blame on Wall Street, that would be short sighted - Wall Street only cares about one thing: the bottom line, it cares not how it gets there. One can also lay the blame on politicians, yet that would also be naive: Washington's purpose in preserving the interests of its electorate only goes as far as the lobby funding from Wall Street will allow it. Unfortunately, a key culprit in the recent near-collapse of the financial system (and by implication, of the Western way of life) is the entire old-school media itself, populated by financially uneducated journalists, to whom concepts like CDS, TALF and TLGP are "dense market analysis with technical charts and graphs" until someone explains their relevance and relationship to other simpler, more simple and mundane concepts. Alas, these are people who prefer to create biopic sketches, and create profiles consisting of attempts to attribute motivations based on fallback arrays filled with incomplete and, at times wrong, "factual" representations. After all, that's what the traditional media world has always done well, and, one could add, is the only thing it has done well. How this has directly impacted traditional media's bottom line is all too well known: not only are newspapers experiencing the worst financial crisis in history, with subscription and ad revenues plummeting, but soon the entire newspaper industry will be pitched by the administration as the next Too Big To Fail industry. How much of this is a reactionary campaign by traditional media users who are tired of being lied to by conflicted disseminators of misinformation time will tell, as well as tomorrow's carnage among the media landscape. Who survives will be just as revealing as who goes under.

As to Zero Hedge, our model is simple: we provide opinions substantiated by facts. Interpretations will vary: which is why the distributed, peer-evaluated model of content aggregation is here to stay: we, as well as the entire blogosphere, grow upon the feedback of our readers and other blogs. As an example, had the rating agencies approached their analytical product with the same openness, the credit bubble would have been diffused much, much sooner. Our "Borg collective" as penned by one Felix Salmon, consists of some of the most deeply embedded insiders, and not just on Wall Street. Our informational axes would make the traditional media "sourcing" model green with envy. And our desire to bring any bit of information we uncover for general public consumption, is the stuff the Established media model's nightmares are made of. It is no secret why that particular model is in its death throes. We do wish it all the best, although if Darwinian theory is correct, our wishes will have no impact on the final outcome.

We expect and welcome more such "interludes" - after all, as pointed out, they are the one thing traditional media is still good at. In the meantime, we will continue doing what we are good at, which is putting the dots together for the benefit of ever-increasing readers in the U.S. and worldwide, as well as for those in the old-school media regime who have taken enough Econ 101 to follow our narratives. We are unfazed by amusing labels trumpeting "conspiracies" and "disaggregation," as well as recurring other attempts to create strawmen for ad hominem attacks. After all, the conclusion is startlingly simple: silencing us would be best served by ignoring us.

That has yet to happen.


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Mon, 09/28/2009 - 03:31 | Link to Comment CD
CD's picture

Damn. I really am being indoctrinated here. I just wrote pretty much the same (though less eloquently) in  response to the article.

Reading this site would really be easier if there were 30-40 of me as well...

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 03:36 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I'm the real Tyler Durden t-shirts. You know they would sell.

Hey did beaker write that story? Oh wait. He's a cnbc correspondant. Did someone write that story for beaker?


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:39 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:51 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:56 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture


Why don't you ask Joe Blow Himself?

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 19:33 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 03:43 | Link to Comment matthylland
matthylland's picture

welcome to the party!, Tyler.

Frankly, I think my response is the same as anyone elses....

'Tyler' may be Osama Bin Laden for all I care. Whether what is posted is "conspiracy" or not. It is full of facts and quotes, and should be read by anyone looking to form an opinion on our world's economy or politics.

Keep it up 'Tyler', I don't think many of us care who you are.

I wore my new zerohedge shirt (the ones from -273) through the Newark airport on my trip out to Seattle and Portland this past week. 1 person was brave enough to come up to me. Just someone who rarely posts, but a 'lurker'. I thought it was pretty cool to meet someone face to face. NYmag can call 'us' whatever they want, but you all have put something truly special together, and I am glad to play along.  Thank you Zerohedge.


Edit: try #2 at Captcha...3:42 is a little too late for me and solving these hard math problems!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:18 | Link to Comment narlah
narlah's picture

I am a lurker but id wear that shirt anytime :)

Thank you TD for posting the infos we read all day long. Thank you.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 03:50 | Link to Comment agrotera
agrotera's picture

( Leo K....believing that the SEC would step in? et tu Leo?  SHOCKING.)

This NEW YORK article, in their usual style, is the same old hot air, gasbag snob saturated, step over the truth bullshit....what a waste that I took the time to read the garbage.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:28 | Link to Comment I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

Really Leo?!  The same SEC that was "handed Madoff on a silver platter" but chose to ignore  for 8 years?  Puhleeze.  

The ultimate form of flattery is to have a news source such as the NY Mag try to discredit ZH.  Ahhh, how I love the smell of desperation in the air.


Sure wish I could sleep on Sundays.  I mean Monday.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:07 | Link to Comment Pizza Delivery Man
Pizza Delivery Man's picture

I have a flight to London in a few hours hours. I am glad I was awake to read this as I will be busy tomorrow.

And Mr. Hagan is correct in that ZH has loyal readers.

Mr Hagan - You can suck a fart out of my asshole you dried and crusty shit stain. Attacking a blog is sophomoric and juvenile. I'd love to slap you like the little girl you are. Could you not figure out the CAPTCHA problems? Is that what upset you so?


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:58 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I bet it could be arranged!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Cindy_Dies_In_T...
Cindy_Dies_In_The_End's picture

heehee. I love it when u talk dirty.


Anyway, I did glance over Hagan's steamy pile of shit. That paper must be getting very desperate to publish that half-baked, half-witted yawnfest.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:07 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:13 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

For Wall Street (a place where the smartest come to roost but not for the sake of being smart, but merely to outthink other smart people in the perpetual quest in gaining a infinitesimal profit generating arbitrage), the race to the top means simply a race to find a new loophole, obfuscation, or a new form of informational "asymmetry."

With respect to this quality and timeless quote I can only observe that the vast majority of the traditional financial media, and by extension most traditional media regardless of "slant" is either too stupid, too complicit or both in their realization that the information product that is produced by them, regardless of venue is a direct result of those they cover using the bold portion of the quote to grossly manipulate the flow and analysis of information by those traditional media outlets.  And in so doing rendering these media outlets and the product they produce as either compromised, worthless or both in the considered opinion of their consumers.  Hence their current rate of decline into oblivion of these outlets and those that are associated with them.

It is a testament to the "traditional" media model as currently practiced by those that own & populate it that when their work product is rejected in mass they feel compelled to attack the so called window dressing of the messenger of their demise rather than address the substance of the message itself.  As if either are at question with respect to ZH.

Now that the time has arrived when the broad spectrum of mass news consumers, from the most highly engaged and educated on any particular issue to those within the general population that consume their news at the educational level it is produced understand that traditional financial reporting is nothing more than what most parents of a newborn understand to be a "slurp & burp" form of communications.  The citizens of our nation require more from the fourth estate if they are to fulfill their obligation to the institution of responsible self government to be well informed and engaged.  It is time for the traditional media to either step up or be prepared to be moved out of the way.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:24 | Link to Comment nicholforest
nicholforest's picture

Tyler keep up the good work. These kind of attacks are a sure sign that ZH is getting under somebody's skin.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:41 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 05:18 | Link to Comment Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Joe Hagen = self-absorbed financial illiterate

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 05:22 | Link to Comment kilroy
kilroy's picture

old media will go away if we ignore it.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 05:57 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Ya and in the 90's AT&T would stop calling you and asking you to switch long distance carriers if you just said no i'm not switching stop calling me.

Zero Hedge and bloggers will be stalked by big media more and more.

Leaving the man is hard. It's like being beat out of a gang.

I'd like to cancel my Verizon phone service. Ok let me get your information.

Hold on I can't bring the account up can you please hold.

No you're lying to me. You're going to get someone to bother me you're computer is working fine. Cancel the service. Blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Then i keep getting stalked with a phone bill for canceled service. Then I tell them they are lying useless idiots and stop demanding payment. Then I get a bigger bill. LOL

Big business, big money, monopoly currency. It created rape. It knows it's wrong but does it anyway.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:07 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
Margaret Mead

"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win."
Mahatma Gandhi

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:20 | Link to Comment reading
reading's picture

Well, clearly the site is officially a success.  The further attempts to out your identity definitely means you are having an effect on someone and likely means (one could surmise) that the premise of the information presented here is on track.  No need to throw a dog off a scent if he's running the wrong way, right?

And, I for one, as a reader since the first months come here for the information.  I am intelligent enough to take the information here and make my own determination on conspiracy theories if that's the direction I want to take it. According to the articles author I guess I should assume that all these big financial types that ZH has shed some light on really just have my best interest at heart and I should just close my eyes and trust what they are telling me...oh, right everything that happened in the last 3 years just was a chain reaction and could not be predicted.  Hmm, funny, I could have told you more than 4 years ago that people buying those houses that didn't have income weren't going to be able to pay for them.  And I am not even a rocket scientist.

This article and it's author (I already forgot his name) are making a feeble attempt to maintain what was perceived as the status quo. I'll stick with personal responsibility for educating myself and then making my own decisions.


Thanks to ZH for acting as a great informational resource. 


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:09 | Link to Comment blackebitda
blackebitda's picture

well i guess we can now write about tyler on wikipedia and how ZH started the innovation and progress of knowledge and information. Eric Schmidt might just find an interest in buying such a knowledge platform. 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 15:25 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:20 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I thought Bubblicious Ben declared the recession over. Chicago Fed says no.

-.74 for July

I can't see how august could be any better.

Someone keep an eye on them. I bet it's fudged to say  -.69 with kudlow throwing a recession over party.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:26 | Link to Comment reading
reading's picture

Don't worry, if they can't fudge it they will just ignore it.  I mean you know -- "The party must go on."

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:53 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Oh krikey. They nutted up and told the truth. It DROPPED to -90. chicago says deep deep recession continues.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:34 | Link to Comment AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

"His readership of angry traders and anti-government malcontents celebrated his newfound power."


I prefer to use the term "economic truthers"



Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:48 | Link to Comment Intuition
Intuition's picture

I take as a compliment the label "anti-government malcontent." I'll reconsider when I see the first reason to be "pro-government" that is not based on obvious propaganda, indefensibly blind nationalism, or utter fear.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:49 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

See, that fucking happens when someone leaks your identity. They assault your family, they assault you; they assault the people you are connected with. And that article was garbage at its best form  ( i should know goddamn it; im a logician for fuck sake ). Invalid conclusions, highly speculative ( peasant expression for contingent ) structure of reasoning and a paradigm that one of TDs i actually Ivandjiiski. God fucking damn, someone should tare that site down like a Taliban tared down Russian helicopters. But one things is sure; the old media is dying, and its dying quickly. This is one more evidence. And the second fact is ( ok, there are two sure things ) that im pissed, insane, and highly capable. Come and get us biyatches. Long live ZH.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:05 | Link to Comment blackebitda
blackebitda's picture

yes anony is very valuable in times such as these. i understand such need for anony was the case while the declaration of independence was being penned. nevertheless, the here and now requires anony for those whom are knowledge capital and information managers such as we. on one hand the faster the old media dies the better, and on the other hand, they are helpful in keeping future expected investment returns higher.

btw, no reason to damn God, however, we all have free will.  

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:28 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

He/She/It doesnt mind.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:14 | Link to Comment arnoldsimage
arnoldsimage's picture

cheeky... i'll share a foxhole with you any day.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:15 | Link to Comment spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

It's interesting to be able to question and read others questions in this environment. Like the old media, the Schopenhauer model of ideas (truth) is also dying. If I may propose the new one I now see as a possibility......

1. First they ridicule you..

2. Then they shoot you..

Unfortunately, this anon style of writing will not last either once the NSA site gets rolling.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:01 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

And Joe is not anon at all! No worries for Joe!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:59 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:01 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:03 | Link to Comment CJ Fields
CJ Fields's picture

New York Magazine = irrelevant.  please TD tell me you had this link sent to you and not culling for this garbage.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:20 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:21 | Link to Comment putbuyer
putbuyer's picture
Taxpayers vs. Investors: The Imminent Disinformation Schism


Was the first ever article I read back in April on Seeking Alpha. It was like a gallon of bleach wiped all the shit from my brain and I became aware. Who is this Tyler? I asked. I didn't before, but I do now - know the difference between truth and lies.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:24 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:03 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:36 | Link to Comment Ivanovich
Ivanovich's picture

You're getting to them, Tyler. It's that simple. There is a reason that more and more people distrust the MSM daily.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:42 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

As for the "anti-government malcontents", I cannot imagine what possible fault any patriotic American could find with handing out taxpayer money and backstopping failure to the tune of somewhere between $11-$23 trillion to the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who caused the entire financial meltdown, not removing a single CEO from a banking institution, not enacting a single piece of legislation aimed at fixing the areas of the system that allowed the problems to occur, telegraphing every move to the same inner circle responsible for the mess, and generally thinking that one solves a problem by repeating the same things that caused it (cheap money, lax supervision, TBTF institutions, favored status institutions, less than arms length dealings with major firms).

Who are we to question the wisdom and intentions of our betters?  Geez, maybe I should volunteer for a waterboarding session down at Guantanamo to get my mind right. 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:49 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:37 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:16 | Link to Comment putbuyer
putbuyer's picture
Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

Free eBook

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:25 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Tractatus -  THE worst book on logic EVER; it is so bad, that Wittgenstein himself dismissed the conclusions which he made in Tractatus later in his writings ( i.e Philosophical Investigations ). That Wittgenstein is known, as the " Later " Wittgenstein, and his is so much better logician than the 1920s Tractatus Wittgenstein.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:07 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Hey your Royal Cheeky Bastardness,

I answered your Baudrillard joke/allusion on the NBC for sale thread. Cool you had classes with Derrida. Bet Joe don't know shit about PoMo, Post-Structuralism, or Deconstructionist theory. Maybe you should share!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

hey beautiful; actually i didn't had classes with Derrida, just attended seminars in which he spoke or gave a lecture. And, no, i don't want to share shit with Joe, especially the beauty of Derrida philosophy. It is unlikely that a person of Anglo-Saxon heritage would enjoy some Continental Philosophy. Yeah, i hate analytical part; its like Descartes got cut in half with one half in the US and the UK and the other one in the grave. But, to make a long post short; Joe Hagan can go fuck himself.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:17 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Joe ain't got no Zen.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:06 | Link to Comment JOHNICON
JOHNICON's picture

"Welcome to the party pal!"  Hehe, Die Hard had some great lines.  Some apply to ZH's usual subject matter.

"Who knows?  Probably some stock broker, got depressed"


-Edited for spelling.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:55 | Link to Comment blackebitda
blackebitda's picture

I observe that whenever one gets close to finding things of true value, and/or making progress...well even a weakling will fight if backed into a corner. 


Dear Marketplace:

Reality can suck sometimes, but living in denial and eating the misinformation one is fed will only hurt you and benefit the annoying Dennis Kneale's and Larry Kudlow's of the world. Markets rise and fall. Bad news in the financial world does not sell, so it always must be good. 

However, in an emerging marketplace where knowledge and information are more valuable than ever before, mediums such as these, are vital to the innovation and continued existence of the very marketplace we have passion for and rely upon as fiduciaries and professionals. 

Again, markets rise and fall, and if the market is UP, DOWN, or SIDEWAYS; I would urge this and all info mediums of this pursuit to operate without directional bias. 

It just happens to be that the information and knowledge that is being revealed at this time is not what everyone wants to hear. 

It is through corrections and failures that greatness and progress is made. If everyone was able to observe and capitalise from such, the future expected return would be smaller. 

As for following zero hedge off a cliff, I find it amusing that critics whom if I followed them, I would really fall off a cliff. I know of many many people that have fallen off the cliff following information provided by the establishment ie. CNBC, NY Post, market experts. I find it pathetic that those who cannot make money from the markets, rely upon their marketplace commentary to make a living. You see, Dennis Kneale, it is one thing to own AAPL and talk up all its greatness [pithy attempt to manipulate the price] , but "unrealized gains" mean nothing unless you realize them". The market tells you everyday what is worth knowing, insider information is over rated.

"Stocks are made for selling" and "What everybody knows is not worth knowing". -Gerald M. Loeb


"you know you hit a nerve when you get a response"...tom sawyer



Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:10 | Link to Comment I need more cowbell
I need more cowbell's picture

Keep those articles coming, baby! Look, no one, ZERO, of the current readership of ZH is going to be in the least way dissuaded by any of these clownish counter-articles. Impossible. To wit:

Mr. Cheeky Bastard," Oh my god, what was i thinking, how could I have been so stupid. Was I merely attracted to Robo's and Andy's occasional babealicious pictograms slyly sandwiched between the graphs and data? Oh, wretched excess, its back to CNBC for me, by Crom!  Or somesuch.

Conversely, every article will have some newbie's interest tweaked, and voila, readership growth. And, more than likely, at some point , that newbie abandons the old media. The truth will out, bitches.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:15 | Link to Comment blackebitda
blackebitda's picture

stopped watching CNBC awhile back. i think the reference of Jerry Springer of financial news is appropriate. 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:26 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

CNBC/insert question mark/

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:14 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:14 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right"

The Grateful Dead


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:20 | Link to Comment hp12c
hp12c's picture

I take offense on the tone of Hagan's implications that the readers of Zero are lemmings following Tyler's flute. I come here for the counterpoint argument to MSM "news". I can then make my own investment decisions....The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.. They just don't get it...and they wonder why they are loosing audience.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:11 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Follow the intoxicating music as it winds its way from my flute to your ears...

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:26 | Link to Comment docj
docj's picture

Heh - my only thought after reading that article was "I gots to get me one a dem ZH t-shirts!"

Cheers -

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:40 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:22 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:49 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture


Nice to meet an adult from the press. I am not a journalist, but an ethnographer, so I speak from that position.

"but truly really revealing in your story is a reporter-source relatonship that has gone south--with not a small hint of a betrayal of confidentiality on your part."

I would not trust this guy after that observation. Spot on.

"whether journalists can have the insight and humility to recognize that blogs have often done a better job than the mainstream press at getting correct information out"

Indeed! Keep at it. I will.

Good post. Thanks.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:44 | Link to Comment OrganicGeorge
OrganicGeorge's picture

ethnographer Wiki


This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Please improve this article if you can. (February 2009)


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:20 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

There is a whole lot there that needs "cleaning up." General gist is fine, many of those peeps mentioned is my peeps. It would take time.

Someone needs to start with the evaluation criteria. It is, if memory serves me correctly, specifically for autoethnography, not ethonography generally.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:46 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:48 | Link to Comment ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

Penis envy.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:49 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:54 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

now might be a good time to invite those with important information to contact ZH at tips at zerohedge dot com

please do it.  thank you.


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:20 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:58 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

There's an odd admission in the article:

“Something like Zero Hedge, which takes an extremely conspiratorial view of the markets and possible manipulation, is going to happen in part because the world has become more conspiratorial,” says John Carney, who blogs at Clusterstock. “You don’t even need a conspiracy theory to say the most powerful people and the wealthiest people are working together to accomplish their mutual goals.”

Class warfare is now occurring out in the open.  The wealthy are using every means at their disposal, including the networked political system, to maintain their place and their wealth.  John has it correct, no conspiracy is needed.  I continue to call this "a conspiracy of interests".  There's no morning email, all the players know where their own interests lie.  Apparently there IS a morning email to the WH, however.


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:26 | Link to Comment loki
loki's picture

Here's the odd juxtaposition:   The next article is about Madoff victims... [conspiracy?  what conspiracy?  And who's this Markopolis guy?]


Ebel has spent a lot of time with her lawyer this year. She has felt by turns angry, depressed, and helpless. She’s been touched by the kindness of friends, but also shocked at how judgmental people can be. And she is consumed by the process of getting justice, even as she’s lost faith that such a thing is possible. “I’ll tell you what feels deep to the bone,” she says. “The failure of the government. The conspiracy. That’s the worst thing.”    For most of us, the Madoff matter is over.


(sarcasm here)  SEC aware of him in 2000?  Aw, nonsense!  (/sarcasm)

I guess MSM has a hard time with being marginalized.  I about spit my coffee when I read that Obama is considering a Newspaper bailout...   Where's my F'in bailout??!!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:31 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:50 | Link to Comment OrganicGeorge
OrganicGeorge's picture

The newspaper bailout bill has only one co-sponser in the house where it orginated and all Obama said was that he would have to look at the bill, he said nothing about supporting it. 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:21 | Link to Comment chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

I thought the site was run by PIMCO - LOL

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:27 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:12 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I am conflicted about posting this, this is what he wants, you decide what you want to do about any of this.

Joe Hagan lives in Brooklyn, New York.

Here is some of his other work


Edit: I am no longer conflicted. In fact you may need to bag my harlequin ass.


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:38 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

Let's get some of his work particulars, as well as information about his father.  And does he have kids? 

Hagan:  you're just another meal in the food chain, and you might find ZH readers are a hungry lot.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 19:19 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 21:13 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Joe forgot we are the ones that educate his kids, care for his parents, fix his car and deliever his pizza.  hehe

Tue, 09/29/2009 - 02:45 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:36 | Link to Comment Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

I just love the smell of squid ink in the morning...NYRag is desperate..

I just hope all the newbies who come to chat with us are versed in the art of thread wars!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:46 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:53 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:58 | Link to Comment JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

I love how main stream media is going non-profit and defending the old guard that created their new status. Stupid is as stupid does.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:58 | Link to Comment Whatta
Whatta's picture

Why did the guy feel the need to "out" someone? Does that invalidate the outed's data and cause?

And a wee bit of sleuthing of the outed turns up the trumphed-up charge of insider trading that amassed the MAMMOTH fortune of $ GAWD, the Rockefellers are aghast at that princely sum escaping their grasp. That certainly undermines the integrity of the outed...share a cell next to that villianous Martha Stewart in hell. The battle can be fought from Hell as well as NYC.


Good work TD...keep them frustrated and screaming for mercy.


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:09 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:14 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

My work is done here:

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 12:18 | Link to Comment Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Are you sure it isn't

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:32 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 14:01 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 14:58 | Link to Comment Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

The point of ZH is that friends of the printing press (insiders) are the beneficiaries of blatant manipulation.  You speak of the market as if mr. market is always right, but if you had been following the posts regularly you would notice that volume is down, fundamentals can only be compared to the great depression in both dividend yield and earnings collapse, banks are using fed liquidity to prop up commodity and equity markets, insiders are selling at an alarming ratio to buying, and the bots (PPT) are primary buyers especially on POMO days. 

Only an insider could confidently invest in this environment - and for the majority of corporations they are all selling.  So, only a fed/banking cartel insider would invest in this environment, and perhaps it is a takeover.  Could they just purchase for influence material percentages of listed public corporations with printed monopoly money loaned for free?  But you are so wise, you foresaw all of this with your wisdom right?

The stock market is not 100% correlated with the economy which you so wrongly linked when the plunge protection team is at work.  We would love to see a true recovery, not a wag the dog green shoots recovery, but the facts and underlying fundamentals don't support it.  This site is about trying to understand the true drivers of the market looking from the outside in (and with good insider tips, sometimes insights from the inside), not just market timing.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 16:26 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Well I'm fundamentally humble enough to not go picking up pennies when the wishing well is a vat of acid. I only feel sorry for people who are FORCED to trade this market and I try not make fun of anyone who get's it wrong in this market.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:42 | Link to Comment D.O.D.
D.O.D.'s picture

I especially liked the part where they say other blogs are afraid of saying something against ZH because of fear of comment attacks...

"The might say mean things on my blog, and I fear for my blogs saftey"


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:58 | Link to Comment JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

The guy is clueless, in the blogger economy, any link-love is good. I think some of these main stream types are taking shots for the link bait value; It works something like this:Take a shot at a succesful, widely read blog, hope the successful blog links back (he took the bait!) and you have traffic to your pathetic content. Tell advertisers you are widely read (look at my stats!).. Hopefully revert to for-profit status.

BTW Tyler you should consider a redirection script when pointing to these clowns so as to avoid giving them link juice on search engines, no sense in feeding the trolls.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

so true

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 19:15 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:17 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:33 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I should not be giving you this attention...

What does your post even mean?

What if he is not a native speaker? So??? And???

What if other posters are not native speakers???? So??? And???

Doesn't invalidate their thoughts? Why did that even need to be said?

And all this leads you to the compelling conclusion of...nymag is getting warm. How were these words supposed to lead my brain there? How? How? How?


This may be the worst post I have ever seen.

Tyler, I am not sure what it means if your enemies are not literate...

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:20 | Link to Comment crzyhun
crzyhun's picture

I admit to being anti-intellectual. I do not read the NYT and have not for 10 years. I do not miss it one bit. I guess I can now make up my own mind about matters and affairs.

ZH is an excellent source and you all are dilligent and objective as any.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:36 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:46 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 12:07 | Link to Comment vicelord
vicelord's picture

I 1st got turned on to ZH through Seekingalpha, and I was immediately hooked.


But, I will say, it became clear to me pretty quickly that Tyler or Dan - or whoeverthefuck they/he/she/it is writing this stuff - was not infallible.  As evidenced by his "Market Bottom-Calling" in early February.  Around SPX 750.


"The preliminary assumption that the S&P 500 may have bottomed in November has so far been consistent with technical analysis - the market has been trading in a very tight range in the 775-850 (click on chart, below, to enlarge). This article will not delve into the technical aspects save to say, that the current level on the S&P may be priced surprisingly well given all the above 5 criteria. Investors should compare improvement versus deterioration in all five to determine what the impact will be over the coming several months."


Since then he's gotten a lot more bearish, although that could be playing to his audience, as they allege in that piece of shit article.  But my problem with ZH (and I you can say whatever the fuck you want about me - I was here before 90% of you) these days is too much drinking of the kool-aide; too much blind adulation.  And I think it's been reflected in the content that it's going to a certain someone's head.  So, with that in mind, I'm going to have to kinda sorta 1/2 agree with the writer.  


It's getting weird around here.  I think restricting registration would be a good place to start.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 13:29 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Ur a fag.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:35 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You crack me up! You are an artist.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 14:34 | Link to Comment agrotera
agrotera's picture

Your comment is strange VL and i am only taking the time to respond because i have seen you around here before--

--you say you were hooked, then you say that the commenters are "drinking the koolaid" which is a straight out implication that ZH is lying...and you claim that ZH is "playing to their audience, implying that they publish for audience approval...

the TRUTH is that ZH HAS much approval from their audience precisely because of their disregard for approval, but their concern on seeking the truth...and that is a noble endeavor for anyone....adulation is deserved for sharing the product of the work of such a high calling.


so, you can forget the idea that anyone would trust a word from you with a message that is this say you appreciate the site in that you are hooked, then you say that the site is jonestownstyle serving koolaid--shame on you.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 16:14 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Well vicelord. I think you have a strong enough psychology to not turn into a herded cow. I also think everyone is here because we sort of know what is wrong anyway we just need to talk it back and forth and figure out what it is. Get to the very bottom of it.

What you said is the truth. "You can say whatever the fuck you want about me"

So you piped up said what you thought. Not many people are beating you up and you could take it if they did. That's not cult dynamics. Cult dynamics is what most everyone here knows and see's and laughs at CNBC for doing.


Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:44 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

What would be your criteria for who you would let register and who you would not?

I hope coming up with an answer for that is difficult. If it is easy, you are lost.

The replies above mine are very reasonable reactions.

What is your experience now, reading them? Seriously? Anger? I hope not.

vicelord, you are probably a good egg who is too tightly wound. I'd go get you a glass of red wine if I could.

Tue, 09/29/2009 - 02:56 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 13:15 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 13:26 | Link to Comment sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

May whatever gods exist all bless Tyler Durden!

A bud sent me a clip this morning on the latest installment of "This American Life" (NPR propaganda station #2, after #1 Fox propaganda station).

The re-framing of the economic meltdown was the best in the disinfo biz.  Inferred that Black Americans may have been fundamental cause (as they took those subprime and NINJA loans), while accidentally explaining that the banksters were utilizing former bartenders (and financial know-nothings) to peddle those MBSes, CDOs, etc.

Yup, and no mention of all those other thousands of categories of credit derivatives, nor the scam of the CDSes, nor the latest re-securitization scam of "crap-and-trade" being foisted upon the 'tards of North America.

No historical background, because on NPR, FOX and the McMedia, there is NO HISTORY.

Somehow, all this securitization (many, many multiple layers), and all these securitized financial instruments, are supposed to be creating all this new industry, yet the NY Times recent article on the BLS study which demonstrated, that after the numbers were all crunched, there was actually NO NEW JOBS created in the private sector from July '99 (can you say dot com boom?) to JULY 2009.

Thanks again, TD, and NO....I am not Tyler Durden.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 14:39 | Link to Comment BM (not verified)
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 15:03 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 15:18 | Link to Comment KidDynamite
KidDynamite's picture

question - didn't the NYMag article say ZH started in January of this year? that's not true is it? i swear i remember reading ZH daily during the Lehman collapse

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 15:30 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 16:01 | Link to Comment Veteran
Veteran's picture

Better the grave than a slave

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 16:40 | Link to Comment gossamer
gossamer's picture

Didn't Hagen tear the Squid a new one by piling on after Taibbi's dirty bomb had Lloyd running for the bunker?  I thought his(Hagen's)7/26/09 article along with Michael Lewis' were nicely placed mortar rounds into the enemy camp.  I liked Hagen better when he was keepin it real.


Fact is there are more and more people everyday looking for an alternative to the BS from the MSM.   It won't be long until suck ups like Hagen will be writing to a band of crickets who happen to be tuned in to CNBS.  


Love ya Tyler and don't ever admit to who you are.  Deny Deny Deny 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 16:55 | Link to Comment TumblingDice
TumblingDice's picture

It's all so confusing. Trust is a hard thing to earn, and Tyler has done it so well by utilizing the right approach. Presentation of useful information. This approach does not have a name, but it has a purpose. When it is done about the movement of money (and anything that that might be related to, which is most things in our social spectre), it is called journalism.

This information should aim to be helpful to the reader, not the disseminator. It is still journalism if the disclosure of information is indeed in the best interests of the reader; it is propaganda when its disclosure is meant to benefit the source almost exclusively, sometimes even at the expense of the reader. Sure, it is not always black and white, and we know that ultimately who benefits and who loses is determined by how both the source and reader act on the information, but the point is, the intention is possible to figure out, or at least make a solid judgement on.

I am pretty confident that the information I get here is provided in order to help me. I know that it is not put out there with the goal of ZH of benefitting at my expense. This is much more than I can say for a lot of other sources out there.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:49 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 09/28/2009 - 19:25 | Link to Comment Rula Lenska
Rula Lenska's picture


Re: the detrimental effect a cult of personality may have on the blog--too late. Witness the "I am Tyler" t-shirt comments above, for starters.

Inevitable, yet unfortunate, consequence of success.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 21:38 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Miscomunication. Was meant more as a reverse obfuscation thing. Did you ever see that movie with Eddie Murphy Life. Where the "man" is trying to figure out who got the wardens daughter pregnant and he's walking back and forth around the prisoners with his shotgun over his shoulder asking who did it. And all the prisoners step forward and start saying. I'm that baby's daddy. etc etc.

I think people come here to hear what each other say as much as to read the stories.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 21:54 | Link to Comment CD
CD's picture

Edit: this was meant as response to #81818

Good post, but must disagree on the "this is a damn good piece" bit. Besides the (possible) "outing" of (one of the) Marla(s) by providing an alternative online pseudonym, Mr. Hagan does not provide new information, and does not engage in meaningful analysis.  And even that was (OK, here I too am guessing) provided to him by members of the ZH team, perhaps to establish credentials. The stuff about Dan I. being a contributor/one of the Tylers is old news, rehashed as if it were a bombshell uncovered by Mr. Hagan. It's great that the public is underinformed and has attention span/memory converging on zero. It is an opinion/puff piece exactly because of a lack of regard for facts. It contradicts itself in several places, and attempts to discredit the idea stated a few times on ZH that it's not about one jaded, angry would-be trader/analyst with a chip on his shoulder against the financial sector - this is a(n increasingly well-oiled and growing) team at work. If nothing else, the  sheer volume of content on this site should tip you off that such cannot be the case, yet Hagan suspends disbelief to force this argument.

On the rest of the points, I wholeheartedly agree. Arrogance has been the downfall of far too many good people (though thankfully also many bad ones). ZH and its readers should try to avoid that trap.

As to the REAL purpose and intent of the ZH team, I must admit I agree with TumblingDice above - it benefits the reader more than the source. A nagging suspicion remains that perhaps all of this is somehow tied to a hedge fund being set up, whose as-yet under-utilized (but clearly talented) staff is biding their time while necessary regulatory paperwork is approved by carefully setting up the stage WHILE AT THE SAME TIME providing a hugely beneficial public service. Actually, I find quite a bit of poetic justice in that idea.;-)

But ultimately, we all (and to a much larger extent, the rest of society) have to learn to think critically for ourselves, and carefully evaluate the truth content of information received. Identity of the messenger can sometimes be an element in evaluating that, but to RELY on that particular aspect is the folly we are witnessing daily in our society. ZH gives a good workout to grey matter, and is thus intrinsically valuable to me. And that is even without considering the ever-weaving, hugely entertaining and more often than not insightful commentary of fellow readers and contributors. Perhaps it is not brainwashed and megalomaniac to say thank you all.

Tue, 09/29/2009 - 01:38 | Link to Comment Sigma O
Sigma O's picture

Hey, Mr Hagan has provided "new information" - he has a picture of Bess Levin at the end of his article. That's the first one I've seen! Could it be that everyone is missing the real journalistic breakthrough here?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!