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Another Amusing Media Interlude

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Yet another amusing media interlude. Zero Hedge appreciates the gossip pages' attempt at profiling our zany cause. Even if, as the case may be, these particular gossip pages are in fact owned by the very same Establishment that our "conspiratorial" disclosures attempt to represent for the motivated and deeply embedded wealth redistribution enterprise it is.

And while Mr. Hagan's reporting could have been better served with some more directed fact checking and appropriate disclosures (least among them being the representation that our "off the record" solicited information has helped additional relevant articles, namely, and ironically, this very one) it does highlight a critical point: when discussing financial matters, the "financial media" represented by "Establishment" type reporters and bloggers, just like the financial "regulators", is woefully behind the curve. For Wall Street (a place where the smartest come to roost but not for the sake of being smart, but merely to outthink other smart people in the perpetual quest in gaining a infinitesimal profit generating arbitrage), the race to the top means simply a race to find a new loophole, obfuscation, or a new form of informational "asymmetry." Proper and timely interception of these misguided Wall Street interests by the old media system has failed, pure and simple. While one can lay the blame on Wall Street, that would be short sighted - Wall Street only cares about one thing: the bottom line, it cares not how it gets there. One can also lay the blame on politicians, yet that would also be naive: Washington's purpose in preserving the interests of its electorate only goes as far as the lobby funding from Wall Street will allow it. Unfortunately, a key culprit in the recent near-collapse of the financial system (and by implication, of the Western way of life) is the entire old-school media itself, populated by financially uneducated journalists, to whom concepts like CDS, TALF and TLGP are "dense market analysis with technical charts and graphs" until someone explains their relevance and relationship to other simpler, more simple and mundane concepts. Alas, these are people who prefer to create biopic sketches, and create profiles consisting of attempts to attribute motivations based on fallback arrays filled with incomplete and, at times wrong, "factual" representations. After all, that's what the traditional media world has always done well, and, one could add, is the only thing it has done well. How this has directly impacted traditional media's bottom line is all too well known: not only are newspapers experiencing the worst financial crisis in history, with subscription and ad revenues plummeting, but soon the entire newspaper industry will be pitched by the administration as the next Too Big To Fail industry. How much of this is a reactionary campaign by traditional media users who are tired of being lied to by conflicted disseminators of misinformation time will tell, as well as tomorrow's carnage among the media landscape. Who survives will be just as revealing as who goes under.

As to Zero Hedge, our model is simple: we provide opinions substantiated by facts. Interpretations will vary: which is why the distributed, peer-evaluated model of content aggregation is here to stay: we, as well as the entire blogosphere, grow upon the feedback of our readers and other blogs. As an example, had the rating agencies approached their analytical product with the same openness, the credit bubble would have been diffused much, much sooner. Our "Borg collective" as penned by one Felix Salmon, consists of some of the most deeply embedded insiders, and not just on Wall Street. Our informational axes would make the traditional media "sourcing" model green with envy. And our desire to bring any bit of information we uncover for general public consumption, is the stuff the Established media model's nightmares are made of. It is no secret why that particular model is in its death throes. We do wish it all the best, although if Darwinian theory is correct, our wishes will have no impact on the final outcome.

We expect and welcome more such "interludes" - after all, as pointed out, they are the one thing traditional media is still good at. In the meantime, we will continue doing what we are good at, which is putting the dots together for the benefit of ever-increasing readers in the U.S. and worldwide, as well as for those in the old-school media regime who have taken enough Econ 101 to follow our narratives. We are unfazed by amusing labels trumpeting "conspiracies" and "disaggregation," as well as recurring other attempts to create strawmen for ad hominem attacks. After all, the conclusion is startlingly simple: silencing us would be best served by ignoring us.

That has yet to happen.

 

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Mon, 09/28/2009 - 03:31 | 81217 CD
CD's picture

Damn. I really am being indoctrinated here. I just wrote pretty much the same (though less eloquently) in  response to the article.

Reading this site would really be easier if there were 30-40 of me as well...

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 03:36 | 81218 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I'm the real Tyler Durden t-shirts. You know they would sell.

Hey did beaker write that story? Oh wait. He's a cnbc correspondant. Did someone write that story for beaker?

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:39 | 81235 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

+1

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:51 | 81303 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

The New York Magazine article calls Zero Hedge a "no-frills site"

Pray tell, what is a site with frills like?

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:56 | 81355 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Frilly?

Why don't you ask Joe Blow Himself?

joe_hagan@hotmail.com

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 19:33 | 81928 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

There is a mirror site, and it's somewhere (perhaps aggregated in variant dark pools). It's called Infinity Hedge. It's full of frills (imagine Huffington Post in 3-D).
-AnonymousZero

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 03:43 | 81220 matthylland
matthylland's picture

welcome to the party!, Tyler.

Frankly, I think my response is the same as anyone elses....

'Tyler' may be Osama Bin Laden for all I care. Whether what is posted is "conspiracy" or not. It is full of facts and quotes, and should be read by anyone looking to form an opinion on our world's economy or politics.

Keep it up 'Tyler', I don't think many of us care who you are.

I wore my new zerohedge shirt (the ones from -273) through the Newark airport on my trip out to Seattle and Portland this past week. 1 person was brave enough to come up to me. Just someone who rarely posts, but a 'lurker'. I thought it was pretty cool to meet someone face to face. NYmag can call 'us' whatever they want, but you all have put something truly special together, and I am glad to play along.  Thank you Zerohedge.

 

Edit: try #2 at Captcha...3:42 is a little too late for me and solving these hard math problems!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:18 | 81385 narlah
narlah's picture

I am a lurker but id wear that shirt anytime :)

Thank you TD for posting the infos we read all day long. Thank you.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 03:50 | 81223 agrotera
agrotera's picture

( Leo K....believing that the SEC would step in? et tu Leo?  SHOCKING.)

This NEW YORK article, in their usual style, is the same old hot air, gasbag snob saturated, step over the truth bullshit....what a waste that I took the time to read the garbage.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:28 | 81233 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

Really Leo?!  The same SEC that was "handed Madoff on a silver platter" but chose to ignore  for 8 years?  Puhleeze.  

The ultimate form of flattery is to have a news source such as the NY Mag try to discredit ZH.  Ahhh, how I love the smell of desperation in the air.

 

Sure wish I could sleep on Sundays.  I mean Monday.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:07 | 81225 Pizza Delivery Man
Pizza Delivery Man's picture

I have a flight to London in a few hours hours. I am glad I was awake to read this as I will be busy tomorrow.

And Mr. Hagan is correct in that ZH has loyal readers.

Mr Hagan - You can suck a fart out of my asshole you dried and crusty shit stain. Attacking a blog is sophomoric and juvenile. I'd love to slap you like the little girl you are. Could you not figure out the CAPTCHA problems? Is that what upset you so?

-PDM

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:58 | 81357 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I bet it could be arranged!

joe_hagan@hotmail.com

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:45 | 81448 Cindy_Dies_In_T...
Cindy_Dies_In_The_End's picture

heehee. I love it when u talk dirty.

 

Anyway, I did glance over Hagan's steamy pile of shit. That paper must be getting very desperate to publish that half-baked, half-witted yawnfest.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:07 | 81226 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

The appropriate fight club response to the MSM would be "Don't worry, it's not a threat to you."

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:13 | 81228 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

For Wall Street (a place where the smartest come to roost but not for the sake of being smart, but merely to outthink other smart people in the perpetual quest in gaining a infinitesimal profit generating arbitrage), the race to the top means simply a race to find a new loophole, obfuscation, or a new form of informational "asymmetry."

With respect to this quality and timeless quote I can only observe that the vast majority of the traditional financial media, and by extension most traditional media regardless of "slant" is either too stupid, too complicit or both in their realization that the information product that is produced by them, regardless of venue is a direct result of those they cover using the bold portion of the quote to grossly manipulate the flow and analysis of information by those traditional media outlets.  And in so doing rendering these media outlets and the product they produce as either compromised, worthless or both in the considered opinion of their consumers.  Hence their current rate of decline into oblivion of these outlets and those that are associated with them.

It is a testament to the "traditional" media model as currently practiced by those that own & populate it that when their work product is rejected in mass they feel compelled to attack the so called window dressing of the messenger of their demise rather than address the substance of the message itself.  As if either are at question with respect to ZH.

Now that the time has arrived when the broad spectrum of mass news consumers, from the most highly engaged and educated on any particular issue to those within the general population that consume their news at the educational level it is produced understand that traditional financial reporting is nothing more than what most parents of a newborn understand to be a "slurp & burp" form of communications.  The citizens of our nation require more from the fourth estate if they are to fulfill their obligation to the institution of responsible self government to be well informed and engaged.  It is time for the traditional media to either step up or be prepared to be moved out of the way.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:24 | 81232 nicholforest
nicholforest's picture

Tyler keep up the good work. These kind of attacks are a sure sign that ZH is getting under somebody's skin.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 04:41 | 81236 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

That writer is an irrelevant ninny.

First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 05:18 | 81240 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Joe Hagen = self-absorbed financial illiterate

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 05:22 | 81241 kilroy
kilroy's picture

old media will go away if we ignore it.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 05:57 | 81244 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Ya and in the 90's AT&T would stop calling you and asking you to switch long distance carriers if you just said no i'm not switching stop calling me.

Zero Hedge and bloggers will be stalked by big media more and more.

Leaving the man is hard. It's like being beat out of a gang.

I'd like to cancel my Verizon phone service. Ok let me get your information.

Hold on I can't bring the account up can you please hold.

No you're lying to me. You're going to get someone to bother me you're computer is working fine. Cancel the service. Blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Then i keep getting stalked with a phone bill for canceled service. Then I tell them they are lying useless idiots and stop demanding payment. Then I get a bigger bill. LOL

Big business, big money, monopoly currency. It created rape. It knows it's wrong but does it anyway.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:07 | 81247 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
Margaret Mead

"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win."
Mahatma Gandhi

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:20 | 81248 reading
reading's picture

Well, clearly the site is officially a success.  The further attempts to out your identity definitely means you are having an effect on someone and likely means (one could surmise) that the premise of the information presented here is on track.  No need to throw a dog off a scent if he's running the wrong way, right?

And, I for one, as a reader since the first months come here for the information.  I am intelligent enough to take the information here and make my own determination on conspiracy theories if that's the direction I want to take it. According to the articles author I guess I should assume that all these big financial types that ZH has shed some light on really just have my best interest at heart and I should just close my eyes and trust what they are telling me...oh, right everything that happened in the last 3 years just was a chain reaction and could not be predicted.  Hmm, funny, I could have told you more than 4 years ago that people buying those houses that didn't have income weren't going to be able to pay for them.  And I am not even a rocket scientist.

This article and it's author (I already forgot his name) are making a feeble attempt to maintain what was perceived as the status quo. I'll stick with personal responsibility for educating myself and then making my own decisions.

 

Thanks to ZH for acting as a great informational resource. 

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:09 | 81278 blackebitda
blackebitda's picture

well i guess we can now write about tyler on wikipedia and how ZH started the innovation and progress of knowledge and information. Eric Schmidt might just find an interest in buying such a knowledge platform. 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 15:25 | 81685 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

So he can coopt it for 0?

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:20 | 81249 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I thought Bubblicious Ben declared the recession over. Chicago Fed says no.

-.74 for July

I can't see how august could be any better.

Someone keep an eye on them. I bet it's fudged to say  -.69 with kudlow throwing a recession over party.

http://www.chicagofed.org/economic_research_and_data/cfnai.cfm

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:26 | 81251 reading
reading's picture

Don't worry, if they can't fudge it they will just ignore it.  I mean you know -- "The party must go on."

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:53 | 81823 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Oh krikey. They nutted up and told the truth. It DROPPED to -90. chicago says deep deep recession continues.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:34 | 81254 AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

"His readership of angry traders and anti-government malcontents celebrated his newfound power."

 

I prefer to use the term "economic truthers"

 

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:48 | 81256 Intuition
Intuition's picture

I take as a compliment the label "anti-government malcontent." I'll reconsider when I see the first reason to be "pro-government" that is not based on obvious propaganda, indefensibly blind nationalism, or utter fear.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:49 | 81257 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

See, that fucking happens when someone leaks your identity. They assault your family, they assault you; they assault the people you are connected with. And that article was garbage at its best form  ( i should know goddamn it; im a logician for fuck sake ). Invalid conclusions, highly speculative ( peasant expression for contingent ) structure of reasoning and a paradigm that one of TDs i actually Ivandjiiski. God fucking damn, someone should tare that site down like a Taliban tared down Russian helicopters. But one things is sure; the old media is dying, and its dying quickly. This is one more evidence. And the second fact is ( ok, there are two sure things ) that im pissed, insane, and highly capable. Come and get us biyatches. Long live ZH.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:05 | 81277 blackebitda
blackebitda's picture

yes anony is very valuable in times such as these. i understand such need for anony was the case while the declaration of independence was being penned. nevertheless, the here and now requires anony for those whom are knowledge capital and information managers such as we. on one hand the faster the old media dies the better, and on the other hand, they are helpful in keeping future expected investment returns higher.

btw, no reason to damn God, however, we all have free will.  

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:28 | 81291 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

He/She/It doesnt mind.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:14 | 81280 arnoldsimage
arnoldsimage's picture

cheeky... i'll share a foxhole with you any day.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:15 | 81312 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

It's interesting to be able to question and read others questions in this environment. Like the old media, the Schopenhauer model of ideas (truth) is also dying. If I may propose the new one I now see as a possibility......

1. First they ridicule you..

2. Then they shoot you..

Unfortunately, this anon style of writing will not last either once the NSA site gets rolling.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:01 | 81364 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

And Joe is not anon at all! No worries for Joe!

joe_hagan@hotmail.com

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 06:59 | 81260 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

New York mag readers mostly skipped that article in hard copy, and the online version probably got more hits from this site. Old Media was an empire built on distribution and not content - take away distribution, welcome to the new paradigm. suck it easy boys.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:01 | 81261 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Be careful! Your revelry in the apparent ultimate demise of the print media as well as the more staid old-timer organizations may be a bit premature. I have learned during my years in the hunt, it is the wounded and or threatened beast that is the most dangerous. Continue shining the light on the lies and the misinformation that such generate and keep the boasting in the closet please. Otherwise, the distraction of the legislative fight to control the free exchange of information that your efforts represent will be a distraction and energy sink away from that very hope.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:03 | 81263 CJ Fields
CJ Fields's picture

New York Magazine = irrelevant.  please TD tell me you had this link sent to you and not culling for this garbage.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:20 | 81264 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Gee.....I don't think anybody ever claimed Zero Hedge is
perfect. But please look at the juggernaut they are
critiquing......a bunch of used-car salesmen and their
flacks who have managed to clothe themselves in the
robes of the Illuminati, but are, in fact, posers.
It's an old story....the emperorers are wearing
no clothes.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:21 | 81265 putbuyer
putbuyer's picture
Taxpayers vs. Investors: The Imminent Disinformation Schism

 

Was the first ever article I read back in April on Seeking Alpha. It was like a gallon of bleach wiped all the shit from my brain and I became aware. Who is this Tyler? I asked. I didn't before, but I do now - know the difference between truth and lies.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:24 | 81268 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

New York magazine?

Yeah, its good if you need to be told what neighborhoods are cool, that $300 shoes will make you better looking, what establishments you NEED to eat at.

These people are selling the "life style obsession." They aren't credible to anyone with half a brain.

Keep up the good fight.

Constant lurker, but I am sure glad there are tons of smart, caring people out there.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:03 | 81311 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

yes, lifestyle obsessions for the only consumers that are left to keep the entire ponzi pyramid from collapsing...i.e. those working in some capacity for the 'sacred fat cows' feeding off the gov't trough.

we have many of these people as customers.
we notice them getting more stingy than usual.
a stinginess that thinly veils the rising desperation that can be easily seen on one has the courage to look in another's eyes (all too uncommon in NYC -- we highly recommend it).

watch out for cornered rats friends.
best to put an extra clove of garlic in your pocket before you go out in public
(virtual public included)

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:36 | 81270 Ivanovich
Ivanovich's picture

You're getting to them, Tyler. It's that simple. There is a reason that more and more people distrust the MSM daily.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:42 | 81272 chindit13
chindit13's picture

As for the "anti-government malcontents", I cannot imagine what possible fault any patriotic American could find with handing out taxpayer money and backstopping failure to the tune of somewhere between $11-$23 trillion to the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who caused the entire financial meltdown, not removing a single CEO from a banking institution, not enacting a single piece of legislation aimed at fixing the areas of the system that allowed the problems to occur, telegraphing every move to the same inner circle responsible for the mess, and generally thinking that one solves a problem by repeating the same things that caused it (cheap money, lax supervision, TBTF institutions, favored status institutions, less than arms length dealings with major firms).

Who are we to question the wisdom and intentions of our betters?  Geez, maybe I should volunteer for a waterboarding session down at Guantanamo to get my mind right. 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:49 | 81274 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Given your choice to cloak yourself in anonymity, then by definition an "ad hominem" attack is impossible.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:37 | 81294 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

...oooh, this ought to drive Hagan up the other wall.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:16 | 81314 putbuyer
putbuyer's picture
Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

Free eBook

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5740

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:25 | 81322 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Tractatus -  THE worst book on logic EVER; it is so bad, that Wittgenstein himself dismissed the conclusions which he made in Tractatus later in his writings ( i.e Philosophical Investigations ). That Wittgenstein is known, as the " Later " Wittgenstein, and his is so much better logician than the 1920s Tractatus Wittgenstein.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:07 | 81371 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Hey your Royal Cheeky Bastardness,

I answered your Baudrillard joke/allusion on the NBC for sale thread. Cool you had classes with Derrida. Bet Joe don't know shit about PoMo, Post-Structuralism, or Deconstructionist theory. Maybe you should share!

joe_hagan@hotmail.com

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:14 | 81377 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

hey beautiful; actually i didn't had classes with Derrida, just attended seminars in which he spoke or gave a lecture. And, no, i don't want to share shit with Joe, especially the beauty of Derrida philosophy. It is unlikely that a person of Anglo-Saxon heritage would enjoy some Continental Philosophy. Yeah, i hate analytical part; its like Descartes got cut in half with one half in the US and the UK and the other one in the grave. But, to make a long post short; Joe Hagan can go fuck himself.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:17 | 81798 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Joe ain't got no Zen.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:06 | 81275 JOHNICON
JOHNICON's picture

"Welcome to the party pal!"  Hehe, Die Hard had some great lines.  Some apply to ZH's usual subject matter.

"Who knows?  Probably some stock broker, got depressed"

 

-Edited for spelling.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 07:55 | 81276 blackebitda
blackebitda's picture

I observe that whenever one gets close to finding things of true value, and/or making progress...well even a weakling will fight if backed into a corner. 

 

Dear Marketplace:

Reality can suck sometimes, but living in denial and eating the misinformation one is fed will only hurt you and benefit the annoying Dennis Kneale's and Larry Kudlow's of the world. Markets rise and fall. Bad news in the financial world does not sell, so it always must be good. 

However, in an emerging marketplace where knowledge and information are more valuable than ever before, mediums such as these, are vital to the innovation and continued existence of the very marketplace we have passion for and rely upon as fiduciaries and professionals. 

Again, markets rise and fall, and if the market is UP, DOWN, or SIDEWAYS; I would urge this and all info mediums of this pursuit to operate without directional bias. 

It just happens to be that the information and knowledge that is being revealed at this time is not what everyone wants to hear. 

It is through corrections and failures that greatness and progress is made. If everyone was able to observe and capitalise from such, the future expected return would be smaller. 

As for following zero hedge off a cliff, I find it amusing that critics whom if I followed them, I would really fall off a cliff. I know of many many people that have fallen off the cliff following information provided by the establishment ie. CNBC, NY Post, market experts. I find it pathetic that those who cannot make money from the markets, rely upon their marketplace commentary to make a living. You see, Dennis Kneale, it is one thing to own AAPL and talk up all its greatness [pithy attempt to manipulate the price] , but "unrealized gains" mean nothing unless you realize them". The market tells you everyday what is worth knowing, insider information is over rated.

"Stocks are made for selling" and "What everybody knows is not worth knowing". -Gerald M. Loeb

 

"you know you hit a nerve when you get a response"...tom sawyer

 

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:10 | 81279 I need more cowbell
I need more cowbell's picture

Keep those articles coming, baby! Look, no one, ZERO, of the current readership of ZH is going to be in the least way dissuaded by any of these clownish counter-articles. Impossible. To wit:

Mr. Cheeky Bastard," Oh my god, what was i thinking, how could I have been so stupid. Was I merely attracted to Robo's and Andy's occasional babealicious pictograms slyly sandwiched between the graphs and data? Oh, wretched excess, its back to CNBC for me, by Crom!  Or somesuch.

Conversely, every article will have some newbie's interest tweaked, and voila, readership growth. And, more than likely, at some point , that newbie abandons the old media. The truth will out, bitches.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:15 | 81283 blackebitda
blackebitda's picture

stopped watching CNBC awhile back. i think the reference of Jerry Springer of financial news is appropriate. 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:26 | 81290 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

CNBC/insert question mark/

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:14 | 81281 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

LONG LIVE ZERO HEDGE!!!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:14 | 81282 deadhead
deadhead's picture

"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right"

The Grateful Dead

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:20 | 81286 hp12c
hp12c's picture

I take offense on the tone of Hagan's implications that the readers of Zero are lemmings following Tyler's flute. I come here for the counterpoint argument to MSM "news". I can then make my own investment decisions....The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.. They just don't get it...and they wonder why they are loosing audience.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:11 | 81374 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Follow the intoxicating music as it winds its way from my flute to your ears...

joe_hagan@hotmail.com

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:26 | 81289 docj
docj's picture

Heh - my only thought after reading that article was "I gots to get me one a dem ZH t-shirts!"

Cheers -

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:40 | 81297 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

It's kind of telling that I tried to post this on NY mag's comments page and was booted off the registration form or redirected from it four times. I give up.

But I can post it here so, Joe, if you are reading (and I know you are) here you go:

I am a professional journalist, and a big fan of financial blogs--including Zero Hedge.

I suppose I should admire your enterprise in outing him, but truly really revealing in your story is a reporter-source relatonship that has gone south--with not a small hint of a betrayal of confidentiality on your part.

Long before you wrote the Goldman cover story -- which is replete with "legitimate" sources echoing the same concerns as ZH about Goldman's hold on the financial industry, blogs were breaking news about Goldman.

Long before the mainstream press sounded alarm bells about the financial bubble, blogs were already on scene-- not winning readers with vitriol and rumor --but with charts, graphs, hard data, archival research -- while far to many of my bretheren were still gushing about the wonders of the housing market, and passing on without question industry advice to "buy now or be priced out forever."

I noticed you passed on exploring the most reputable of these blogs -- Calculated Risk -- which counts Alex Blumberg and Adam Davidson (NPR's 'Giant Pools of Money') and Paul Krugman among its many fans. This blog left the mainstream press in its dust in terms of covering the financial crisis. This is why it and other blogs like it have gained such a loyal readership -- they fill a gaping information hole in the mainstream press.

Many times, I have read grateful comments from readers on these blogs, saying that were it not for the data and advice provide, they avoided taking out risky loans, they could persuade their spouses that it wasn't the right time to buy, they saved money rather than squandered it. Most of us in the press woke up far too late to help readers in this way (and some, sadly, took an active role in seeing that this information never got to light--thanks to our corrupted dependence on real-estate advertising)

I believe my troubled industry may rise or fall on its understanding of blogs like these --on whether journalists can have the insight and humility to recognize that blogs have often done a better job than the mainstream press at getting correct information out there, and that they have gained the increasing trust of their readers, where the credibility of the press continues to suffer.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:22 | 81321 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Two typos (am sorry - yes, we do need copy editors -especially when we are agitated)

"what is truly, really revealing.."

"saying that because of the data and advice provided.."

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:49 | 81348 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Anon,

Nice to meet an adult from the press. I am not a journalist, but an ethnographer, so I speak from that position.

"but truly really revealing in your story is a reporter-source relatonship that has gone south--with not a small hint of a betrayal of confidentiality on your part."

I would not trust this guy after that observation. Spot on.

"whether journalists can have the insight and humility to recognize that blogs have often done a better job than the mainstream press at getting correct information out"

Indeed! Keep at it. I will.

Good post. Thanks.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:44 | 81398 OrganicGeorge
OrganicGeorge's picture

ethnographer Wiki

 

This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Please improve this article if you can. (February 2009)

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:20 | 81800 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

There is a whole lot there that needs "cleaning up." General gist is fine, many of those peeps mentioned is my peeps. It would take time.

Someone needs to start with the evaluation criteria. It is, if memory serves me correctly, specifically for autoethnography, not ethonography generally.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:46 | 81299 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

A worrisome itch is beginning to irritate.

Could CONgress begin a series of hearings to further erose the Shield law forcing the revelation of deep throat sources in the name of "National Security"?

Yeah, call me paranoid.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:48 | 81300 ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

Penis envy.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:49 | 81302 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Taxi Tyler. I had no clue you were Bulgarian. I had no idea you lived on the east side of Manhattan. I had no idea this site was so undecipherable, and I don't work in finance.

I was born on the east side of Manhattan, and it's been my pleasure to work for a Bulgarian family for ten years. Please keep up the good work.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:54 | 81304 deadhead
deadhead's picture

now might be a good time to invite those with important information to contact ZH at tips at zerohedge dot com

please do it.  thank you.

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:20 | 81319 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

deadhead is dead on once again.
we second the please & thank yous.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 08:58 | 81310 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

There's an odd admission in the article:

“Something like Zero Hedge, which takes an extremely conspiratorial view of the markets and possible manipulation, is going to happen in part because the world has become more conspiratorial,” says John Carney, who blogs at Clusterstock. “You don’t even need a conspiracy theory to say the most powerful people and the wealthiest people are working together to accomplish their mutual goals.”

Class warfare is now occurring out in the open.  The wealthy are using every means at their disposal, including the networked political system, to maintain their place and their wealth.  John has it correct, no conspiracy is needed.  I continue to call this "a conspiracy of interests".  There's no morning email, all the players know where their own interests lie.  Apparently there IS a morning email to the WH, however.

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:26 | 81324 loki
loki's picture

Here's the odd juxtaposition:   The next article is about Madoff victims... [conspiracy?  what conspiracy?  And who's this Markopolis guy?]

 

Ebel has spent a lot of time with her lawyer this year. She has felt by turns angry, depressed, and helpless. She’s been touched by the kindness of friends, but also shocked at how judgmental people can be. And she is consumed by the process of getting justice, even as she’s lost faith that such a thing is possible. “I’ll tell you what feels deep to the bone,” she says. “The failure of the government. The conspiracy. That’s the worst thing.”    For most of us, the Madoff matter is over.

 

(sarcasm here)  SEC aware of him in 2000?  Aw, nonsense!  (/sarcasm)

I guess MSM has a hard time with being marginalized.  I about spit my coffee when I read that Obama is considering a Newspaper bailout...   Where's my F'in bailout??!!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:31 | 81330 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

we make on a good year 1/5th of what mr. klein states is the general 'profile' of the average financial blog reader.

we have absolutely no desire to wage war on those simply more wealthy than us, nor do we begrudge their wealth.

to us, class warfare is as much as a useful distraction for TPTB as race warfare.

this is not at all about whether or not one is wealthy...this is all about how one derives their wealth and whether it is built on creating value in a positive-sum outcome or rather it is built on manipulating those who are less fortunate (either in money, power, information or knowledge) in a zero-sum game.

we say lay all the information out in the open and let the chips fall where they may.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:50 | 81403 OrganicGeorge
OrganicGeorge's picture

The newspaper bailout bill has only one co-sponser in the house where it orginated and all Obama said was that he would have to look at the bill, he said nothing about supporting it. 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:21 | 81320 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

I thought the site was run by PIMCO - LOL

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:27 | 81325 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

All the 'journalists' - especially 'business journalists' know how to do is copy&paste from PRNewswire.

Whenever I've seen reports of attempts at a paid model for newspapers I've joked that there's no need for them anyway. PRN, Businesswire, etc will never charge to read their content, the various 'newsletters' from fund companies are intentionally misleading and just talking their books anyway and if you want local news the cops always post their press releases to their own websites.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:12 | 81332 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I am conflicted about posting this, this is what he wants, you decide what you want to do about any of this.

Joe Hagan lives in Brooklyn, New York.

joe_hagan@hotmail.com

Here is some of his other work

http://www.joehagan.net/archive.html

 

Edit: I am no longer conflicted. In fact you may need to bag my harlequin ass.

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:38 | 81394 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Let's get some of his work particulars, as well as information about his father.  And does he have kids? 

Hagan:  you're just another meal in the food chain, and you might find ZH readers are a hungry lot.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 19:19 | 81905 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

welcome to fight club joe.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 21:13 | 82005 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Joe forgot we are the ones that educate his kids, care for his parents, fix his car and deliever his pizza.  hehe

Tue, 09/29/2009 - 02:45 | 82192 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Since Joe Hagan has no compunction about outing "Tyler Durden" as part of his "in depth" reporting, my take is whatever specific information on this "journalist" can be put out in public, should be put out in public. Hagan's "journalistic integrity" has made it OK. He is fair game. I'd like to know who put him up to this or, put New York Magazine up to this. To do a fair, balanced (and I don't mean that description as Rupert Murdock has co-oped it) and educational article on Zero Hedge is one thing. This Hagan article smacks of payoff.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:36 | 81335 Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

I just love the smell of squid ink in the morning...NYRag is desperate..

I just hope all the newbies who come to chat with us are versed in the art of thread wars!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:46 | 81343 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

As a non-finance person who becomes lost on much of ZeroHedge's information, I rely on this site because it provides critical, unbiased commentary on the state of the US and world economies.
A consequence of my interest in this site has been a growing inability to swallow the BS presented by the MSM on television and in such magazines as the New Yorker and the Economist. I have cancelled subscriptions to both and plan to cancel my Dish subsciption as soon as my contract is up.
Thanks to ZeroHedge for all the great information and links to other factual sources.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:53 | 81351 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Hagan's trolling for a nice PR job at GS.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:58 | 81358 JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

I love how main stream media is going non-profit and defending the old guard that created their new status. Stupid is as stupid does.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 09:58 | 81359 Whatta
Whatta's picture

Why did the guy feel the need to "out" someone? Does that invalidate the outed's data and cause?

And a wee bit of sleuthing of the outed turns up the trumphed-up charge of insider trading that amassed the MAMMOTH fortune of $780...my GAWD, the Rockefellers are aghast at that princely sum escaping their grasp. That certainly undermines the integrity of the outed...share a cell next to that villianous Martha Stewart in hell. The battle can be fought from Hell as well as NYC.

 

Good work TD...keep them frustrated and screaming for mercy.

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:09 | 81373 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I think Alexander Cockburn over at Counterpunch describes what is happening with the MSM and the impact of the rise of the blogosphere best. Well worth a read;

http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn06122009.html

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:14 | 81376 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

My work is done here:

joe_hagan@hotmail.com

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 12:18 | 81488 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Are you sure it isn't vampirevagina@hotmail.com

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:32 | 81391 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

When i read zerohedge, i always remember an old trading room adage. Would you rather be right or make money? ZH and its followers seem more interested in being right than in making money. You been selling it all the way up, i assume. When risk appetite fades, you'll trumpet that you are "right." When the cycle reverses again, you'll miss it in anticipation of being "right" again. Its just like former ML economist Rosenberg. He was so wrong about the economy for so long, then he is "right" for a bit. Misses the turn, the bounce.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 14:01 | 81600 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

That's funny. I don't remember when ZH became everyone's money manager. I always thought it was a blog with market and economic commentary. Stupid. Get a clue.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 14:58 | 81650 Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

The point of ZH is that friends of the printing press (insiders) are the beneficiaries of blatant manipulation.  You speak of the market as if mr. market is always right, but if you had been following the posts regularly you would notice that volume is down, fundamentals can only be compared to the great depression in both dividend yield and earnings collapse, banks are using fed liquidity to prop up commodity and equity markets, insiders are selling at an alarming ratio to buying, and the bots (PPT) are primary buyers especially on POMO days. 

Only an insider could confidently invest in this environment - and for the majority of corporations they are all selling.  So, only a fed/banking cartel insider would invest in this environment, and perhaps it is a takeover.  Could they just purchase for influence material percentages of listed public corporations with printed monopoly money loaned for free?  But you are so wise, you foresaw all of this with your wisdom right?

The stock market is not 100% correlated with the economy which you so wrongly linked when the plunge protection team is at work.  We would love to see a true recovery, not a wag the dog green shoots recovery, but the facts and underlying fundamentals don't support it.  This site is about trying to understand the true drivers of the market looking from the outside in (and with good insider tips, sometimes insights from the inside), not just market timing.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 16:26 | 81746 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Well I'm fundamentally humble enough to not go picking up pennies when the wishing well is a vat of acid. I only feel sorry for people who are FORCED to trade this market and I try not make fun of anyone who get's it wrong in this market.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 10:42 | 81397 D.O.D.
D.O.D.'s picture

I especially liked the part where they say other blogs are afraid of saying something against ZH because of fear of comment attacks...

"The might say mean things on my blog, and I fear for my blogs saftey"

LOL!!!

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:58 | 81420 JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

The guy is clueless, in the blogger economy, any link-love is good. I think some of these main stream types are taking shots for the link bait value; It works something like this:Take a shot at a succesful, widely read blog, hope the successful blog links back (he took the bait!) and you have traffic to your pathetic content. Tell advertisers you are widely read (look at my stats!).. Hopefully revert to for-profit status.

BTW Tyler you should consider a redirection script when pointing to these clowns so as to avoid giving them link juice on search engines, no sense in feeding the trolls.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 21:14 | 82008 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

so true

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 19:15 | 81897 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

i bet an ounce of silver that was "Yves Smith" who said that.
we take TD's bio over hers anyday.
we bet FDR would have too.
look at Joe Kennedy for example

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:17 | 81418 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

well, td is not a native english speaker, that is pretty clear. many others here aren't as well . of course , that doesn't invalidate their thoughts, just saying maybe nymag is getting warm.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:33 | 81806 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I should not be giving you this attention...

What does your post even mean?

What if he is not a native speaker? So??? And???

What if other posters are not native speakers???? So??? And???

Doesn't invalidate their thoughts? Why did that even need to be said?

And all this leads you to the compelling conclusion of...nymag is getting warm. How were these words supposed to lead my brain there? How? How? How?

WTF

This may be the worst post I have ever seen.

Tyler, I am not sure what it means if your enemies are not literate...

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:20 | 81423 crzyhun
crzyhun's picture

I admit to being anti-intellectual. I do not read the NYT and have not for 10 years. I do not miss it one bit. I guess I can now make up my own mind about matters and affairs.

ZH is an excellent source and you all are dilligent and objective as any.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:36 | 81435 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Resistance is futile, Joe. You will be assimilated. It will hurt.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 11:46 | 81451 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

This article is more evidence that the Zero Hedge revolution is under way. I mean, who watches CNBS anymore? Are they still on the air? Plus, who gives a phuck about NY magazine?

I wear my collectors item ZH hat with pride.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 12:07 | 81473 vicelord
vicelord's picture

I 1st got turned on to ZH through Seekingalpha, and I was immediately hooked.

 

But, I will say, it became clear to me pretty quickly that Tyler or Dan - or whoeverthefuck they/he/she/it is writing this stuff - was not infallible.  As evidenced by his "Market Bottom-Calling" in early February.  Around SPX 750.

 

"The preliminary assumption that the S&P 500 may have bottomed in November has so far been consistent with technical analysis - the market has been trading in a very tight range in the 775-850 (click on chart, below, to enlarge). This article will not delve into the technical aspects save to say, that the current level on the S&P may be priced surprisingly well given all the above 5 criteria. Investors should compare improvement versus deterioration in all five to determine what the impact will be over the coming several months."

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/120141-five-criteria-for-timing-the-mark...

 

Since then he's gotten a lot more bearish, although that could be playing to his audience, as they allege in that piece of shit article.  But my problem with ZH (and I you can say whatever the fuck you want about me - I was here before 90% of you) these days is too much drinking of the kool-aide; too much blind adulation.  And I think it's been reflected in the content that it's going to a certain someone's head.  So, with that in mind, I'm going to have to kinda sorta 1/2 agree with the writer.  

 

It's getting weird around here.  I think restricting registration would be a good place to start.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 13:29 | 81565 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Ur a fag.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:35 | 81807 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You crack me up! You are an artist.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 14:34 | 81632 agrotera
agrotera's picture

Your comment is strange VL and i am only taking the time to respond because i have seen you around here before--

--you say you were hooked, then you say that the commenters are "drinking the koolaid" which is a straight out implication that ZH is lying...and you claim that ZH is "playing to their audience, implying that they publish for audience approval...

the TRUTH is that ZH HAS much approval from their audience precisely because of their disregard for approval, but their concern on seeking the truth...and that is a noble endeavor for anyone....adulation is deserved for sharing the product of the work of such a high calling.

 

so, you can forget the idea that anyone would trust a word from you with a message that is this conflicted...you say you appreciate the site in that you are hooked, then you say that the site is jonestownstyle serving koolaid--shame on you.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 16:14 | 81731 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Well vicelord. I think you have a strong enough psychology to not turn into a herded cow. I also think everyone is here because we sort of know what is wrong anyway we just need to talk it back and forth and figure out what it is. Get to the very bottom of it.

What you said is the truth. "You can say whatever the fuck you want about me"

So you piped up said what you thought. Not many people are beating you up and you could take it if they did. That's not cult dynamics. Cult dynamics is what most everyone here knows and see's and laughs at CNBC for doing.

 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:44 | 81814 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

What would be your criteria for who you would let register and who you would not?

I hope coming up with an answer for that is difficult. If it is easy, you are lost.

The replies above mine are very reasonable reactions.

What is your experience now, reading them? Seriously? Anger? I hope not.

vicelord, you are probably a good egg who is too tightly wound. I'd go get you a glass of red wine if I could.

Tue, 09/29/2009 - 02:56 | 82194 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Since you brought up the idea, I vote to have you restricted.

"(and I you can say whatever the fuck you want about me - I was here before 90% of you)"

So you say.

For making that arrogant statement as some sort of justification for being a putz, I made my vote.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 13:15 | 81551 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

The main stream media failed America. Let it waste away as it should.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 13:26 | 81560 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

May whatever gods exist all bless Tyler Durden!

A bud sent me a clip this morning on the latest installment of "This American Life" (NPR propaganda station #2, after #1 Fox propaganda station).

The re-framing of the economic meltdown was the best in the disinfo biz.  Inferred that Black Americans may have been fundamental cause (as they took those subprime and NINJA loans), while accidentally explaining that the banksters were utilizing former bartenders (and financial know-nothings) to peddle those MBSes, CDOs, etc.

Yup, and no mention of all those other thousands of categories of credit derivatives, nor the scam of the CDSes, nor the latest re-securitization scam of "crap-and-trade" being foisted upon the 'tards of North America.

No historical background, because on NPR, FOX and the McMedia, there is NO HISTORY.

Somehow, all this securitization (many, many multiple layers), and all these securitized financial instruments, are supposed to be creating all this new industry, yet the NY Times recent article on the BLS study which demonstrated, that after the numbers were all crunched, there was actually NO NEW JOBS created in the private sector from July '99 (can you say dot com boom?) to JULY 2009.

Thanks again, TD, and NO....I am not Tyler Durden.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 14:39 | 81636 BM (not verified)
BM's picture

xaxa, zabavno

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 15:03 | 81661 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Somebody's got to say it so:

So,the main Tyler's been outed. Did anyone here not expect that to happen eventually.
So Tyler's an imperfect human being. Who isn't (especially on this comment board)
Frankly, I'm relieved, I've always been more interested in the content than the cult of ZH, so Hagan's done us all a favor eliminating the "who is Tyler D distraction".

As to the attacks on Hagan his motivation, it doesn't matter. Screaming I hate the mainstream media, and I'm much cooler/smarter/cleverer/sophisticated than them feels good, but it rally just exposes the level of (valid) anxiety that the MSM is capable of maginalizing the blogs.

Relax, ZH and the other financial blogs are being read and are influential. That's all that matters.

That, plus reporting based on verifiable "facts" will win out in this space.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 15:18 | 81676 KidDynamite
KidDynamite's picture

question - didn't the NYMag article say ZH started in January of this year? that's not true is it? i swear i remember reading ZH daily during the Lehman collapse

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 15:30 | 81690 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Well-writ TD.
For informative study re who owns what media:
http://www.cjr.org/resources/

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 16:01 | 81717 Veteran
Veteran's picture

Better the grave than a slave

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 16:40 | 81758 gossamer
gossamer's picture

Didn't Hagen tear the Squid a new one by piling on after Taibbi's dirty bomb had Lloyd running for the bunker?  I thought his(Hagen's)7/26/09 article along with Michael Lewis' were nicely placed mortar rounds into the enemy camp.  I liked Hagen better when he was keepin it real.

 

Fact is there are more and more people everyday looking for an alternative to the BS from the MSM.   It won't be long until suck ups like Hagen will be writing to a band of crickets who happen to be tuned in to CNBS.  

 

Love ya Tyler and don't ever admit to who you are.  Deny Deny Deny 

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 16:55 | 81772 TumblingDice
TumblingDice's picture

It's all so confusing. Trust is a hard thing to earn, and Tyler has done it so well by utilizing the right approach. Presentation of useful information. This approach does not have a name, but it has a purpose. When it is done about the movement of money (and anything that that might be related to, which is most things in our social spectre), it is called journalism.

This information should aim to be helpful to the reader, not the disseminator. It is still journalism if the disclosure of information is indeed in the best interests of the reader; it is propaganda when its disclosure is meant to benefit the source almost exclusively, sometimes even at the expense of the reader. Sure, it is not always black and white, and we know that ultimately who benefits and who loses is determined by how both the source and reader act on the information, but the point is, the intention is possible to figure out, or at least make a solid judgement on.

I am pretty confident that the information I get here is provided in order to help me. I know that it is not put out there with the goal of ZH of benefitting at my expense. This is much more than I can say for a lot of other sources out there.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:49 | 81818 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I've only skimmed through the comment thread so take this for what its worth. This profile was always inevitable; we all knew this as the site started growing so rapidly. And make no mistake, this is a damn good piece just as ZH has damn good content. Feel free to disagree, but I didn't see it as a hatchet job at all. The truth swings both ways, and I don't blindly follow anyone.

Humble advice to the purveyors of this site: dont view the 'conspiracy' tag as a scarlet letter. On the other hand, don't view becoming more 'mainstream' as a bad thing.
As you say, the key passage on this post is the final paragraph - keep doing what you're doing and welcome the additional attention.*

And please, for the love of God, we can't fall in love with our own voices. We don't know it all. Getting inside the heads of those who have stances diametrically opposed from ours is essential.

Finally, as for restricting registration, I disagree. The only thing I would be potentially worried about in the future is the cult of personality in the threads (and to a much lesser degree the posts). But hopefully that wont happen. Long live the anonymous user and long live ZH.

*I must admit I agree with Felix Salmon's disaggregation idea to improve the site.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 19:25 | 81913 Rula Lenska
Rula Lenska's picture

+1K

Re: the detrimental effect a cult of personality may have on the blog--too late. Witness the "I am Tyler" t-shirt comments above, for starters.

Inevitable, yet unfortunate, consequence of success.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 21:38 | 82030 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Miscomunication. Was meant more as a reverse obfuscation thing. Did you ever see that movie with Eddie Murphy Life. Where the "man" is trying to figure out who got the wardens daughter pregnant and he's walking back and forth around the prisoners with his shotgun over his shoulder asking who did it. And all the prisoners step forward and start saying. I'm that baby's daddy. etc etc.

I think people come here to hear what each other say as much as to read the stories.

Mon, 09/28/2009 - 21:54 | 82040 CD
CD's picture

Edit: this was meant as response to #81818

Good post, but must disagree on the "this is a damn good piece" bit. Besides the (possible) "outing" of (one of the) Marla(s) by providing an alternative online pseudonym, Mr. Hagan does not provide new information, and does not engage in meaningful analysis.  And even that was (OK, here I too am guessing) provided to him by members of the ZH team, perhaps to establish credentials. The stuff about Dan I. being a contributor/one of the Tylers is old news, rehashed as if it were a bombshell uncovered by Mr. Hagan. It's great that the public is underinformed and has attention span/memory converging on zero. It is an opinion/puff piece exactly because of a lack of regard for facts. It contradicts itself in several places, and attempts to discredit the idea stated a few times on ZH that it's not about one jaded, angry would-be trader/analyst with a chip on his shoulder against the financial sector - this is a(n increasingly well-oiled and growing) team at work. If nothing else, the  sheer volume of content on this site should tip you off that such cannot be the case, yet Hagan suspends disbelief to force this argument.

On the rest of the points, I wholeheartedly agree. Arrogance has been the downfall of far too many good people (though thankfully also many bad ones). ZH and its readers should try to avoid that trap.

As to the REAL purpose and intent of the ZH team, I must admit I agree with TumblingDice above - it benefits the reader more than the source. A nagging suspicion remains that perhaps all of this is somehow tied to a hedge fund being set up, whose as-yet under-utilized (but clearly talented) staff is biding their time while necessary regulatory paperwork is approved by carefully setting up the stage WHILE AT THE SAME TIME providing a hugely beneficial public service. Actually, I find quite a bit of poetic justice in that idea.;-)

But ultimately, we all (and to a much larger extent, the rest of society) have to learn to think critically for ourselves, and carefully evaluate the truth content of information received. Identity of the messenger can sometimes be an element in evaluating that, but to RELY on that particular aspect is the folly we are witnessing daily in our society. ZH gives a good workout to grey matter, and is thus intrinsically valuable to me. And that is even without considering the ever-weaving, hugely entertaining and more often than not insightful commentary of fellow readers and contributors. Perhaps it is not brainwashed and megalomaniac to say thank you all.

Tue, 09/29/2009 - 01:38 | 82159 Sigma O
Sigma O's picture

Hey, Mr Hagan has provided "new information" - he has a picture of Bess Levin at the end of his article. That's the first one I've seen! Could it be that everyone is missing the real journalistic breakthrough here?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!