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Are Body Scanners Coming to Subways, Trains, Boats and Federal Buildings?
For those who think that the resistance to TSA groping and naked body scanning is over-the-top, take a look at this video and these quotes.
Scanning and invasive pat downs might be a necessary evil if there were no alternatives, but there are alternatives.
In fact, the alternatives would keep us safer than the peep-and-grope system we have now.
For example, trained dogs can detect many dangerous items which pat downs cannot. Or you could just blow up the terrorists (please ignore the religious smear).
Of course, it would help if we stop creating new terrorists. See this, this and this. But that would be bad for the handful of guys raking in big bucks from the protection racket.
Ron Paul is calling for an airline boycott, saying:
If we tolerate this there is something wrong with us.
But
this may not be limited to airlines and airports. Janet Napolitano,
head of the Department Homeland Security and Senator Joe Lieberman,
chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, appear to be pushing for the use of body scanners in subways, trains, boats and federal buildings.
And in July, USA Today noted:
Protecting riders on mass-transit systems from
terrorist attacks will be as high a priority as ensuring safe air
travel, the new head of the Transportation Security Administration
promises.
In his first interview since taking over the TSA, former FBI
deputy director John Pistole told USA TODAY that some terrorists
consider subway and rail cars an easier target than heavily secured
planes. "Given the list of threats on subways and rails over the last
six years going on seven years, we know that some terrorist groups see
rail and subways as being more vulnerable because there's not the type
of screening that you find in aviation," he said. "From my perspective,
that is an equally important threat area."
Indeed, as Forbes' Andy Greenberg notes, mobile backscatter x-ray scanners are already being mounted in vans and used on American streets:
The same technology, capable of seeing through clothes and walls, has also been rolling out on U.S. streets.
***
It
would also seem to make the vans mobile versions of the same scanning
technique that’s riled privacy advocates as it’s been deployed in
airports around the country.***
“It’s no surprise that
governments and vendors are very enthusiastic about [the vans],” says
Marc Rotenberg, executive director of EPIC. “But from a privacy
perspective, it’s one of the most intrusive technologies conceivable.”
- advertisements -
in truth they aren't "x-rays" but what they are from a health standpoint is ? (i think we can rule out improvement). if i had money in airlines or related industries this would piss me off infinitely.
Actually there are two technolgies, one of which is X-ray. The other is mm wave radar. I thought I read or saw a report on TV that the TSA favored X-ray over mm wave, but I'm not sure and can't find a reference with a quick search.
I would think the mm wave is pretty safe, but there is always a question with X-rays. It is ionizing radiation, afterall.
What is the goal? A terrorist can kill about 200+ people if a plane blows up. So the Govt wants to protect everybody when 200+ people gather together. So everyone attending a gathering of 200+ people must be scaned and/or groped. Lets see thats every sporting event (highschool, college, and professional), nearly every church service, college class, college dorms, shopping mall, hotels, office building etc. where is the line? If it is necessary to protect the lives of every gathering of 200+ people, then the economy will stop. This doesn't make sense.
It makes sense when you realise that is their objective!
Name one action that the federal government has taken recently to improve the real economy? Bailouts of banks don't count ... Name one action that was specifically targetted at creating private sector employment?
crickets
a.k.a. Paul Bremer
Positions that L. Paul Bremer has held:- US Administrator in Iraq
Quotes May 18, 2003http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=paul_bremer
.
June 28, 2003“I’m not opposed to [self-rule], but I want to do it a way that takes care of |reasons our concerns|… In a postwar situation like this, if you start holding elections, the people who are rejectionists tend to win… It’s often the best-organized who win, and the best-organized right now are the former Baathists and to some extent the Islamists.” [Washington Post, 6/28/2003]
Associated Events- Events Leading Up to the 2003 Invasion of Iraq - June 28, 2003 - Paul Bremer, the US administra ...
June 30, 2003“We are going to fight them and impose our will on them and we will capture or, if necessary, kill them until we have imposed law and order upon this country.” [Guardian, 6/30/2003]
.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/truth/interviews/bremer.html
.
No Shi'ite Paul baby. The best organized groups are called...
GOVERNMENTS.
Take them on and you engage in civil war. And I believe we've already made that movie and several sequels in various exotic locales.
They need to get rid of this madness.
If we can't check illegal alien IDs, how can this be legal?
Profiling not legal, but grabbing genitalia is?
Legal? Then post offices should be next. No more going postal.
this article misses the boat...there are no terrorist threats except from the cia and its many many willing accomplices....you people need to get over your paranoid horse shit....even if there were a threat the invasion of dignity and privacy is not even close to being worth the cost and barbarity....we are a barbaric civilization because we are ruled by psychopathic barbarians in the oligarchy and cia....you have a higher chance of dying in an automobile accident than in a terrorist accident....
and that missile which flew over california was a failed blackops of the cia/military. it was necessary to justify more nazism but thank god it failed.
I don't know whose idea it is, but it's clear that the real terrorists in this War of Terror are not the "rag heads." Our entire civilization is being warped by the massively cultivated fear of harm by people who've demonstrated little respectable capacity.
if the idea were to protect people from real harm would recreational drugs, any of them, be illegal? they would be as available and safe (pure and of known strength) as seagram's. as noted above and below, it's about control and crony capitalism.
I put this up here yesterday, and I'll mention it again.
These porno-scanners are dangerous, and not just because of the implication that you have no 4th amendment rights. This is a PDF of a double-sided tri-fold brochure with more information on them:
http://scr.bi/cWT295
Please share that link/brochure. Bring one with you if you're traveling and educate someone else. People need to have enough information to make their own decision about whether or not to submit to the body scanners. Unfortunately, that's probably a choice we're going to have to make more often in the future - I also saw the comments about the TSA wanting to expand to cover road/rail/etc.
Google TSA VIPER and you'll see what I mean. They've set impromptu checkpoints up at train and bus stations in the past.
print out as many of these pdfs as you can and hand them out.
Every time I hear the objections based on the "nudity" or "privacy" angle I wonder what's wrong with these people--why assert such lame objections when real safety from cancer-causing radiation is an in-your-face issue that requires no education of the health-conscious American public.
Imagine the cummulative doseages of radiation once these machines become ubiquitous in public places.
I try not to belittle the privacy angle about this, but yes, I agree that the radiation hazard argument is probably going to win more converts.
Those people^H^H^H^H^H^H sheep that don't mind being scanned ("I've got nothing to hide") may very well mind getting a potentially lethal case of cancer.
That's one reason this brochure might get people's attention.
Hell yeah. Modesty in terms of anonymous scans seems petty in comparison to your plane flying into the World Trade Center, but the actual threat to health from gratuitous radiation is a whole 'nother matter.
Makes me wonder who's running the opposition campaign.
Getting groped as an alternative, of course, is another matter.
this is probably a prelude to having every citizen tagged with RF id. Embedded within the RF id is also likely to be your credit card number meaning it will be ever easier to buy stuff on impulse. Corollary is that it will become impossible to shop-lift. Perhaps it's time to invest in MA, and V. Furthermore future crimes will involve snatching body parts that contain embedded RF tags ... or would it be that every body parts will have to have serial number tattooed on like car parts now?
These are already in all federal courthouses in my region.
Have been for at least 6 months.
Seems like they are intent on alienating citizens to CREATE domestic terrorists. Maybe there is an embarressing shortage of enough to keep people scared.
Never waste a good crises...
Well if anyone remembers, the national ID Card act was passed and was supposed to be implemented in 2008 but I never heard much about it. It is just waiting there for us now. Nobody is going to pat me down about nada.
Here's another Michael Chertoff-like conflict. . . Justin P. Oberman. Homeland Security Official Justin Oberman to Join Crestview Capital Funds. . . "Justin's experience in helping to create TSA in the wake of 9/11, and his management of a key component of the agency over the last two years, give us the breadth and depth to effectively evaluate investment opportunities, and add value to our portfolio companies. We look forward to his contributions in homeland security, transportation, and other areas related to public policy."
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/11/prweb316428.htm
Justin Oberman posting on HuffPo defending TSA scanners . . . surprise, surprise.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justin-p-oberman/tamping-down-patdowns_b_787709.html
Everyone chipped and controlled is the plan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAaPjqdbgQ
Preposterous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejq--eIJkgE&feature=player_embedded&has_v...
The whole system was obsolete before implementation...just how many, 'wheelwell stowaways' have we had? those, that hadn't been counted...having fallen from 42,000 feet @ -52F dead-frozen...? those VERY FEW that miraculously 'arrived' dead/alive...estimate a true total of probable 50, not 2,3,4 or 5 in the last 10 years...
or just simpler yet, use currently available portable ground/air missiles...INCLUDING other aircraft, private airplanes to front-ram the cockpit of the largest aircraft...COME ON TSA bullshit...!!
no problem boarding an airplane in an irregular manner, at all, including/especially the crazies that would be so stupid as to 'check in for security...'
Its a 'power grab'.....copy paranoid Israel? treat the USA population as the Vichy French Gov did? NAZI occupied...yet a free French people, huh?
on its face, idiocy to believe the implied/stated mission of TSA
Ok, so the terrorists are backed by oil money. Why not just BUY a cargo plane, fill it with diesel fuel and crash it into one of the big football bowl games? That's probably 60,000 red blooded Americans dead right there. I guess the logical thing to do will be to ban football games.
No, the terrorists are backed by your tax dollars. And the money they raise selling poppies.
this is probably redundant but, as rumsfield ruminated, recruited by the department of defense and the desperately misguided u.s. foreign policy in the mideast and the less developed world generally (not that it's great in the "developed world").
Of course they are!! That was the plan right from the start. They need to make you feel that you are being watched (and biometrically tracked) everywhere you go = "There is nowhere to hide [anything]".
False flag shoe bomber = "Take off your shoes!"
False flag underpants bomber = "We'll [metaphorically] take off your clothes for you! You do have a choice: a pornographic photo or a sexual assault ... which would you prefer?"
Next will be a false flag bomber with a stick of C4 up his ass = "We need to do a proctology exam on all travellers. Bend over and spread your cheeks, or face an $11,000 fine!"
BTW, they WANT you to react by saying "Then I'm not going to fly!" (or drive through scanners, or go to the mall). You are much easier to control if you just stay cowering in your home.
Another brilliant plan "to boost the economy" ... if anyone still believes their bullshit cover stories for deliberately crashing the dollar and the economy.
Oh, I'm staying home all right. Just don't fuck with me or it'll be time to redefine cowering.
I just don't want to play.
great to see you back, doc.
and in great form.
Embrace naturism. Problem solved.
Or perhaps, instead of boycott-the-scanner day at the airport, organize a national fly naked day. Look but don't touch !! (Next day -- umm, what's that brown streak on the seat?)
Also, how long before some publicity-hungry porn star goes through the security line wearing nothing but a raincoat, and then casts it aside for his or her pat down? What's the matter officer? I'm cooperating fully ... you can touch anywhere you want ...
Bring a girly mag with you, and make sure you have a raging hard-on when you get to the checkpoint.
If you opt for the grope with a hard-on the TSA will probably charge YOU with sexual assault.
What do you want to bet there's a porno movie out in two months with this very scenario? Porn and flying will never be the same.
;o)
Anyone find the silence of the ACLU concerning this topic deafening. I wonder why they haven't spouted off about it as this would seem to be right up their ally? Could it be political? Hmmmm.
Leftists everywhere are loving this shit because their guy is in the Oval Office. If we had a President McCain or Palin they'd be coming unfreaking glued. Remember how they howled about anything Bush did? Notice their silence or support of the same actions now? Political? You bet your sweet bippy.
Nah. I think the leftists are loving this because all of the TSA workers are unionized, or soon to be unionized, by the AFL-CIO. That's juice, baby.
Oh puleeze. The union impulse is to make the work easier. Unionize them, and the union will fight for more staff, longer breaks, higher pay, etc. Scan and grope puts TSA personnel under a lot of stress, and only some of them are perverts who enjoy being hated. They are trapped between an angry public and needing the paycheck. A union woud say anyone required to do pat-downs get at least a 75% differential, and most of them would go out on long-term disability due to the emotional stress within six months.
Unionize them and the union bosses will get pay raises, and the unions can collect more dues to finance poiticians. Usually, Democrat politicians. Most lefties are Democrats. So, there's no problem.
The TSA exists because of federal law, not presidential mandate. Which Republican office holders are criticizing scan-and-grope besides Ron Paul? Which Republicans have introduced bills in congress to change the policy? They could do that ... if they wanted, if they were not also beholden to the terror industry and the whole war on terror hoax. Hold your breath and wait.
Yeah, I know. I'm not a Republican. Sheesh. Both parties suck. I'm just pointing out that Leftists, the useful idiots types, piss and moan at anything a Republican regime does. But should a Leftist regime do the exact same, or even more offensive action, they support it. This is why I can't stand them. They're just a bunch of sheep who think they're smarter than everyone who thinks both parties suck.
I'm no republican I just ferret out hypocrisy whenever I feel it exist and just wondering where the hell the ACLU is on this matter. This cause is right up there ally yet nothing. You can infer why.
You are completely wrong about the ACLU and just taking cheap shots. The ACLU is not primarily a PR-seeking, posturing organization. Their MO is to bring lawsuits in support of constitutional rights, or represent people who have test cases and can't afford their own high-priced lawyers. That usually doesn't happen until a few months down the line. Just wait, and you will see the ACLU filing amicus briefs or representing people in court cases involving scan-and-grope, when exactly no one else is there to do it. The ACLU is such a lightening rod for right-wing hatred, I think they tend to keep their heads down somewhat, hoping that the eventual court cases in which they argue will be less politicized, and that perhaps Glen Beck won't even notice if they win a case and preserve individual rights in some realm.
Just curious...
When was the last time the ACLU took up a 2nd Amendment case?
They don't waste resources. The NRA is more than capable of defending that territory.
Completely correct about ACLU.
Actually, the very deep hypocrisy on this issue can be found all over the right wing, who sat silently or cheered as George W. Bush shredded the constitution for years. The TSA scan and grope is actually somewhat of a grey area, constitutionally. In legal circles, there is little question that you give up your fourth amendment rights if, for example, you apply for a security clearance, or join the military, or apply for a job with the FBI. If you do that, the government can nose into your private life without a search warrant from a court. The question is where to draw the line. TSA and the terror industry say it's the same with flying on a commercial airline -- buy the ticket, and you voluntarily give up your rights. You could have taken a taxi. It was your choice. Drawing the line is actually not simple. What activities should be taken to voluntarily forfeit your fourth amendment rights? Applying for a pilot's license? (You could be a terrorist plannign to fly the plane into a building.) Applying for a driver's license? You could be planning to fill your vehicle with explosives and blow up a building in Oklahoma city, like some muslim once did. Where do you draw the line? If riding a commercial airline forfeits your rights, why not riding a public subway?
In all the noise about airport scan-and-grope, people are not keeping clear whether it's
1) Just a stupid and nefarious policy.
2) A constitutional problem. The constitutional issue is actually a tough call.
That makes it all the more astonishing that right-wing blowhards like Denninger, IQ 14.5 et al. suddenly discovered the constitution over this issue. Thanks to assertions of power by George W Bush, the federal government can read your email, listen to your telephone calls, review your internet activity, find out what library books you read, examine every foreign financial transaction you make, and do all this in secret, without any kind of search warrant, just by branding you a potential terrorist. They can also arrest you and imprison you incommunicado without charge indefinitely just by branding you a terrorist, without showing any evidence to any court. Where were all these constitutional defenders during the Bush years? Cheering mostly. Aside from a handful of honorable exceptions, like Bob Barr and Ron Paul, they were cheering the loss of their freedoms. Because the government would only do that stuff to terrorists (which is to say muslims.) They would never do it to real Americans. Sheesh, don't you trust the government? When did the government ever abuse its power? Shut up you terrorist lover.
Obama continued all of the constitutional nullification started by GWB, and made his own signature extension: the president can order US citizens killed with out even bothering to indict them for a crime, just by branding them (in secret, of course, and without showing evidence to anyone) to be terrorists. Hey no problem, just don't touch my junk.
Let's see, who wrote the Patriot Act that pretty much was the beginning of the Police State of the USSA? hmmmmm, oh yeah Joe Biden!!!!!!
lost,
why did you have to throw all that 'right-wing' crap into your otherwise salient points?
stop reinforcing the dangerous premise of parties and 'wings' and join the better part of the ZH crowd who see the bread/circus distractions that these bastards are playing. just say it with us: "fuck the last 10 presidents with a big donkey's pecker!", "Fuck the parties! all of 'em"
didn't that feel great? we never really had a choice, and you know it.
seriously - drop the names/blames and embrace the many new folks who are finally figuring out what you've clearly been watching for a good many years. sure they're late and a buck short, but we've got some serious shit coming our collective way, and the few folks out there like you need to re-think whether hitting your head (as a leader) on that brick wall might not actually make a difference in this climate.
maobama, GWB, clinton, carter, GB3, etc. ug.
when you look at 300 million folks and see that McCain and Obama were the best we could do, you know that the folks that really make that decision don't have our collective better interests at heart. and you also know that their success *depends* upon us calling each other names while they rob/rape/pillage the sheeple. go paris hilton...
consider this a new world, a new time, and rethink the "things we know".
disengage from their game. it's obvious. it's time. it's all we can *really* do.