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Are Body Scanners Coming to Subways, Trains, Boats and Federal Buildings?
For those who think that the resistance to TSA groping and naked body scanning is over-the-top, take a look at this video and these quotes.
Scanning and invasive pat downs might be a necessary evil if there were no alternatives, but there are alternatives.
In fact, the alternatives would keep us safer than the peep-and-grope system we have now.
For example, trained dogs can detect many dangerous items which pat downs cannot. Or you could just blow up the terrorists (please ignore the religious smear).
Of course, it would help if we stop creating new terrorists. See this, this and this. But that would be bad for the handful of guys raking in big bucks from the protection racket.
Ron Paul is calling for an airline boycott, saying:
If we tolerate this there is something wrong with us.
But
this may not be limited to airlines and airports. Janet Napolitano,
head of the Department Homeland Security and Senator Joe Lieberman,
chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, appear to be pushing for the use of body scanners in subways, trains, boats and federal buildings.
And in July, USA Today noted:
Protecting riders on mass-transit systems from
terrorist attacks will be as high a priority as ensuring safe air
travel, the new head of the Transportation Security Administration
promises.
In his first interview since taking over the TSA, former FBI
deputy director John Pistole told USA TODAY that some terrorists
consider subway and rail cars an easier target than heavily secured
planes. "Given the list of threats on subways and rails over the last
six years going on seven years, we know that some terrorist groups see
rail and subways as being more vulnerable because there's not the type
of screening that you find in aviation," he said. "From my perspective,
that is an equally important threat area."
Indeed, as Forbes' Andy Greenberg notes, mobile backscatter x-ray scanners are already being mounted in vans and used on American streets:
The same technology, capable of seeing through clothes and walls, has also been rolling out on U.S. streets.
***
It
would also seem to make the vans mobile versions of the same scanning
technique that’s riled privacy advocates as it’s been deployed in
airports around the country.***
“It’s no surprise that
governments and vendors are very enthusiastic about [the vans],” says
Marc Rotenberg, executive director of EPIC. “But from a privacy
perspective, it’s one of the most intrusive technologies conceivable.”
- advertisements -
Sorry, I am not on board with you there, with your they-all-do-it moral relativism. The rise of the terror state is primarily the fault of the neoconservative movement, which came to power thanks to George W. Bush and his Republican voters. No typos there. Saying who is at fault is the first step toward making it right. Pretending it's "all of them" just promotes defeatism and drift. The terror state was built under Bush. It's true that Democratic party office seekers and the party apparatus (not at all the same thing as "the left" or "liberals") plays along with the terror industry because:
1) it brings in a lot of campaign money
2) they are terrified of being called "soft on terror" by Fox News and the Republicans.
It's also true that most people who vote Democrat are sheeple who easily fall for the terror scam, and are ready to defect to the Republicans if the Democrats don't look "tough enough on terror." But the right wing is clearly driving these developments. The Democrats are just cowardly careerists who get whip-sawed by Fox News.
I admire individuals like Ron Paul, Bob Barr, Glen Greenwald, and Russ Fiengold, who stand up for the constitution on principle, not just when it's politically convenient for them. I won't hesitate to say who is right and who is wrong.
The neocons -- beginning with Kissinger, Kristol, Perle and Wolfowitz -- started in the Democratic Party under LBJ, then transferred to the Republican Party under Nixon in order to consolidate their multi-party power. Brzezinski had one son in McCain's campaign team and one son in Obama's. Perle and Wolfowitz are still, to this day, Democrats. You are even more blind than those you accuse.
Planning for 9-11 commenced under Clinton. The first onerous executive orders granting dictatorial powers to the president in a "state of emergency" were signed by JFK. The most recent was signed by Obama in January. Again, you just don't understand the non-partisan nature of the takeover of America.
You need to get out of the way. You are not part of the solution ... your ignorance is part of the problem!
fair enough,
i still see all of those names/parties (except those on that list - ron paul, bob barr, etc.) as puppets for the cameras. they're not really driving. 200 years of state-department treaties with huntas and hamas-s are driving. big banking interests that easily threaten the gubmint to "negatively effect a million or two jobs" are really driving.
but, if you really believe that one side is better than the other, and don't believe that the lobbyists and other higher-ups aren't really driving the charade, then this conversation sortta ends, because we see the problem that needs solving differently. and that's fine.
and i certainly don't know if i'm right. but it's my bet from my box-seat.
you see, i really don't care that it was the william jefferson clinton's signature on the repeal of glass-steagall (sp?) as the arguable core-catalyst for this entire economic maelstrom we're suffering right now. the next guy would have done it, no matter who he was. fox/msnbc - who the hell cares? you're being gamed if you get sucked into their dialog.
step back. you'll see it more clearly. perhaps you already do. perhaps better than i.
and i'm glad you respect the folks you listed. i'm fairly conservative (fiscal, not social, and NOT repub!), and i'd easily add mr kusinich (sp?) to that list.
FWIW, i agree that the so-called conservatives have done exactly as you've said, but the names still don't matter, because the names are a non-representative group for decades. and believe me, most of the folks who haven't said diddly about the chronic violations of their 'constitutional rights' are either watching 'american idol', or are quietly and wisely picking their battles. i certainly don't underestimate the power of the folks with the reigns/guns.
that said, this TSA reaction is kind of refreshing.
again, your points about the hypocrisy and long-term nature of this situation are neither lost on me, nor argued. it's simply my opinion that the names of the puppets are irrelevant in these migrations of rights/power.
cheers
+100
How do people dream up this nonsense?!! Boarding a privately owned airplane at a privately owned airport is no different than boarding a bus or a taxi to go somewhere. Buying the ticket does not require giving up any rights. Freedom of unmolested travel on the "king's highways" is older than the Magna Carta.
Fucking socialists ... always making up new rules and always with their hands in someone else's pockets to pay for it all!!!
You may be travelling with a non-government airline, but you're going through a government-owned building to board the plane. That's where they nail ya.
The trend is obvious. Things are getting more intrusive as time goes along. Govt is determined to invade people's lives any way they can, and they're progressing slowly, one step at a time, giving people time to get used to it. Six months from now frequent flyers will have accepted being nude x-rayed and sexually groped, thinking nothing of it.
Escalating intrusion into peoples lives occurring in public transportation will have negative effects on the economy, not that govt cares, they've made it plainly obvious they don't care about the economy, all they care about is treating people like cattle, and they love doing it for some perverted reason, the sense of power most likely.
Govt is becoming more anamalistic as time goes along. Enjoying a sense of power and control over people is a raw anamalistic thing, where people abandon their higher moral principles and pursue their raw anamalistic desires.
It's one of the indicators of a govt in its final stages of self destruction. Unfortunately they take a lot of people down with them.
I'm not so sure. Buying an airline ticket is a private, voluntary contract. One of the provisions of that contract, is that you submit to a security screening. The problem arises with the government getting involved in that contract, and forcefully adding provisions to that contract. Now, if the contract says that you must submit to a government screening, as a provision of the contract inserted by the airlines, then you don't have much choice. However, the issue arises, if the airlines should be allowed to use the government to provide these screenings. Don't forget, the airlines are saving a shitload of money by allowing the government to provide security, at taxpayer expense. So, where exactly do the airlines stand on this? Would they rather provide their own private screenings, and have to pay for it, or would they rather allow the government to do it for them, free of charge?
Using a bus or a taxi is also a voluntary, private contract.
I am not a lawyer, so at risk of getting out of depth, but as I understand, you don't forfeit your rights by traveling on a commercial airline "by the nature of the act." You forfeit your rights because of a collective decision, duly legislated by your "representatives" in Congress and signed into law by your president, that people should forfeit their rights in that circumstances to promote collective security. The TSA was created and authorized by law to search people boarding aircraft, and given broad discretion in carrying out that task. This is considered legal because the government can of course regulate private contracts (not to say they always should, but certainly they can -- it's everywhere -- think of regulations recently imposed on credit cards). It's also not considered to be an "unreasonable search and seizure" int he absence of a warrant from a court because you could have avoided it by not flying. (Not my idea, but that's how the courts see it.)
The airlines don't want the expense of security, of course. Even more, they don't want the liability. They are desperate not to run airport security, because then when a terrorist did slip by an blow up an aircraft, they would be sued to oblivion. From a business perspective, it's one bomb, you're gone. Remember Pan Am? One bomb, gone. United and American would have been likewise after 9/11 if not immunized by Congress.
Sure, the government can regulate private contracts. Therein lies the problem. However, it's one thing to regulate contracts to protect people from their own ignorance, and another thing to regulate contracts for collective security and/or safety.
Airlines don't want the liability, because they don't want to have to purchase liability insurance. Business go out of business from accidents because they can not buy, or afford liability insurance after a large accident.
Personally, I've been on a few large construction sites. the safest construction sites are the ones that have a safety inspector, on site, that is an employee of the liabity insurance company, and has the power to shut down the site, and fine and/or ban any subcontractor or employee, for any reason. Many of the safety rules go far above and beyond any OSHA regulations. However, if you are a contractor, you must add the additional costs of complying with the "enhanced" safety rules into the price of the contract.
Please note that I am not defending that logic. Just pointing out that it's widely accepted by courts and politicians, and moreso by "conservatives" than "socialists," of which there are none of any consequence in the USA. A surprising number of "conservatives" strangely have no problem cancelling individual liberties, including liberties centuries old on which our nation was founded, in service of collective projects like controlling the Middle East.
Not to mention, the property forfeiture rules in the 80s as part of the War on Drugs, and a whole host of other 4th amendment violations by conservatives. Americans in general, are more than willing to sacrifice their freedoms for safety, on both sides, and politicians and bureaucrats, on both sides, are more than willing to take them. We have a long, rich history of that.
Nah, MSNBC has been slaving to find objectors to develop some opposition. They just reported that the ACLU has received 600 complaints. They also just tossed up a new poll that showed only 53% of the public favoring the new nazi TSA "safety" regime. There will be action on this. This is a natural liberal hot-button issue.
Liberals might be good for something ? "who knew":?
Utopians of every persuasion need their opposites to keep them in check.
The ACLU for years has not advanced any agenda other than a progressive, large, supposedly altruistic, intrusive, Vonnegettian "we all have our humps now equality" nanny state.
Of course not. That'd be conspiring against their very own Utopian Kumbayanian future.
The true meaning of the "ALCU" acronym was long ago abandoned in the same doublespeak fog as the "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea."
"The ACLU for years has not advanced any agenda other than a progressive, large, supposedly altruistic, intrusive, Vonnegettian "we all have our humps now equality" nanny state."
Exactamundo.
My hearing is now completely shot from their constant two year screeching about voter intimidation in Philly last presidential election cycle...LOL.
To think I once actually sent them money...then I turned 21 and stopped ;-)
"The National Socialist Democratic Party" of germany; you gotta love it; because the spin is all you're going to get.
A very quick cut and paste from the ACLU website. You would think idiots would at least do a quick google search before they started yapping their traps. And I suppose the ACLU was just pushing a liberal agenda when they were defending Rush Limbaughs privacy rights in court. What a bunch of fucking idiots. I thought ZH attracted a somewhat more intelligent demo. The ACLU is the only organization thats actually consistantly fights for your civil liberties you teatard douchbags.
http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/audacity-grope-tsas-new-pat-d...
The Audacity of Grope: TSA's New Pat-Down More on Airport Security »- Laptop Searches
- Watch / No-Fly Lists
- Passenger Targeting
- Secure Flight Screening
"When Americans witness three-year-old children being aggressively patted down by TSA screeners...our airline security screening system is broken." Rep. Rush Holt to the TSA (house.gov)Thanks to a new Transportation Security Administration (TSA) policy, many passengers are being forced to undergo an extremely intrusive and humiliating "pat down" search that is unlike anything most Americans have experienced before.
In the few weeks since the policy came into effect, the ACLU has received hundreds of complaints from travelers who have been subject to these invasive and suspicionless searches. These complaints came from men, women and children who reported feeling humiliated and traumatized by these searches, and, in some cases, comparing their psychological impact to sexual assaults.
Tell DHS: TSA Should Respect Passengers' Privacy RightsWith the holiday travel season fast approaching, we need to make sure that security measures are in place that actually make us more secure without compromising passenger privacy. Send Secretary Napolitano A Message
I I don't typically go to ACLU website to see what they're up to. I usually find then filing motions and injunctions and in front of the camera's lambasting acts such as this but yet I haven't seen hide nor hair of them on any of the usual media outlets.
Ignore it and it goes away.
I see the future. We will be scanned just to get in any Sporting events at Arenas everywhere. No Scan. No Entry.
And just think of the fun they will have at concerts. Remember, we are free. We have all our rights to privacy in
tact. We have the most freedom of any nation. Bush beat and freed us from Saddam Hussein. We won !?!
ANAL PROBES FOR EVERYBODY!!
YEAH BABY!!
Will they train the TSA workers to detect enlarged prostates in a revision of Obamacare? Or can we get a free virtual colonoscopy, if we choose the x-ray instead of the probe?
Seems to be the way things are going. Concert halls and arenas/stadiums are certainly on the list of places to get these things.
Seems like a better "target" than a subway car.
+500,000 dead Iraq's....
it's the freedoms they hate us for. in truth the terrsts need not do any more hits; we are doing the rest of the job to ourselves: endless war abroad; endless police state at home.
Aboslutely correct - spot on .
Pistole was quoted somewhere today or yesterday essentially saying that now with air transport being better secured, the terrorists will be turning their attention to buses subways and the like, so he sees TSA's responsibility as migrating the same or similar standards to those operations. Been said by the man in charge. Public record.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG5e1oaen-M
You mean like how banks got too difficult to rob, so now armed robbers hold up convenience & liquor stores? You bet terrorists will turn to other forms of mass transit next (unless you're in London or Madrid, where it's already happened).
Excessive security is not the answer; it'll only kill ease of movement (and thus commerce & the economy) and make our lives unliveable.
The only terrorists ARE the CIA and NSA...
Fortunately for Teletubby Napolitano
The CIA and NSA are a growth industry...
Plus, the "panty bomber" had a one way ticket bought with cash (and no passport), but was given the green light to get on the plane anyway. This whole thing is about control of the American people, not safety.
BTW, if they had x-rayed him, it wouldn't have shown the bomb in his panties.
Yes they are. The manufacturer has a sweet gubbmit contract.
Should make rush hour in NYC like a science fiction movie.
Awesome!
See TSA Groping Lampooned on Japanese TV
Too Funny. Good Stuff. Why do the Japanese always make the funniest spoofs about our hypocrisies.
"Are Body Scanners Coming to Subways, Trains, Boats and Federal Buildings?"
that's one way to clear out any real Americans left in this country....
Just Bring IT - I know (from the amount I have to pay to get the sluts to drop their clothes for me) that looking at *my* naked body will hurt "them" *a lot* more than it hurts me ;-)
Anyways - People pay good money to be groped and probed by uniformed personnel in Amsterdam - and people pay to watch too. The government is providing a useful service for a change.
this is our country dammit. make the nazis leave.
Fact: Michael Chertoff is a Nazi.
P.S. Come and get me.
"this is our country dammit"....
you're right of course
Thank God for Ron Paul, the ONLY voice of liberty and reason in Washington D.C.
Rumor has it that one of the x-ray viewers at O'Hare was caught on his way into the viewing booth with a roll of paper towels and a bottle of Jergens. TSA is denying the story, but did say they will be hiring jizz moppers for the booths starting next year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLnWf1sQkjY
Kona airport will never get a scanner. I got my junk groped while wearing flip flops, shorts, and a tee shirt. I am thinking Kailua-Kona is going to have a big drop in tourism.