Are Existing Home Prices Overrepresented By Up To 40%?

Tyler Durden's picture

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Howard_Beale's picture

Having been here for over a year--every time I see the bitchez crap at the top of the post I want to personally beat the crap of the poster. It is getting so damn old. STFU!

VeloSpade's picture

Hey Howard,

How about every time you see it 3rd from the top?


Thomas's picture

Makes me chuckle. Reminds me of what a fever swamp this is.

suckapump's picture

I have a brilliant idea! Let's all respond to the "bitchez" post so that we all have to scroll waaay down to see on-topic comments! Yay!

goldfish1's picture

I'm  jealous I didn't post it.

digitalhermit's picture

Wouldn't-be-zerohedge-without-it, bitchez!

Hungry For Knowledge's picture

Howard, go away.

It's part of "who we are."

Village Idiot's picture

"Howard, go away."

"It's part of "who we are."


For better or worse, it's who we are, right now.  Not to sound self righteous here, but the average ZH age of the commenter's who align with the above post on this thread, is about 12 weeks.  ZH has been many things along the way, not all good.  One constant, though, is Howard Beale's contribution. Show the avatar some respect, bitches.  You sound like children.  And most are not here to listen to children.  Poor humorists, maybe.  Children, no.

Yes, I know, there are no rules in fight club.

reading's picture


you have to learn to ignore and just be amazed that they are always first.  I still can't figure out how they do that...

tmosley's picture

So, you're saying you're mad as hell, and you aren't going to take it anymore?

Everyman's picture

Assault and Battery, Bitchez!!!

CashCowEquity's picture

Make the World a Better Place...Punch a Real Estate Agent in the Face.

Frankie Carbone's picture

You mean send him into attornety?

Say, who junked you??? Is there a lawyer on the boards? Lighten up. Everyone loves a good dead lawyer joke. Come on kids, gather round'. I've got a good one for you. 

Did you hear the one about Pinochet, Pol Pot, and the lawyer....


sodbuster's picture

My favorite lawyer joke.

Q:If you were in a room with Hitler, Stalin, and a lawyer, and you had a gun but only had two bullets- who would you shoot? A: You shoot the lawyer twice.

Buzz Fuzzel's picture

Q. What do you call 1,000 lawyers chained together on the bottom of the ocean?  A. A good start.

Everyman's picture



Q:  Why do Lawyers wear ties?

A:  To hold down the foreskin!

Eternal Student's picture

We're in a handbasket, on a journey, going to visit our attorney.

VeloSpade's picture

Make the World a Better Place... beat off on a bitch's face.

tip e. canoe's picture

damn those pesky kids with a modem

Sausagemaker's picture

"...and I'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids..."

Species8472's picture

I have on occasion called our local town assessor for information about the sale price of local properties. Would be interesting to know where they get the info from and is it an honest price.

Fred Hayek's picture

You know what's another scam going?  I'm experiencing this now.  I'm selling my condo.  The closing's in a couple weeks.  Knock on wood.  I've agreed to a price with the buyer but she's buying with some ridiculous negligible amount down and phrased her first offer as $XXX,000 with $5,000 back for closing costs. 

I was totally thrown at first.  "WTF is that?" I asked my agent.  He said it's pretty common with these FHA buyers.  We eventually negotiated a price but the official price that'll end up in the recorded deed is going to be $5,000 more than I actually get out of it.  Ridiculous.  And it inflates the official price a couple percent.


Dixie Normous's picture

And she gets to pay taxes on the higher, false price.  Hahaha.

Fred Hayek's picture

Well, I feel okay about that part.  And I feel okay that my neighbors get a slightly higher number as a reference point should they sell some time in the future.  But, christ, save some freaking money then buy.  It's not rocket science. 

Actually I think it's also a way for whoever's doing her mortgage to rip off her and me.  She doesn't care what the closing costs are.  The "seller" is paying that.  It's just a number we negotiated around. 

Howard_Beale's picture

Not really--it's just the buyer couldn't really afford the closing costs and asked the seller to pay XX amount and it could also help with moving costs. It has been a method in buyer's markets for years for the buyer to get a better deal. And the taxes on $5000 more are negligible. The realtor makes a tiny amount more and the bank/mortgage banker still has to pass that 5K back through. Nothing here. Move along.

DonnieD's picture

This is fairly significant from the standpoint that rolling 5k of closing costs into a 200k sale price increases the sale price by 2.5%. My County Property Appraiser books the $205,000 as the price the house was sold at which is an inflated value. It's not much but it definitely skews the numbers higher.

BobWatNorCal's picture

And you both get to pay yr agents a bigger commish.

Fred Hayek's picture

Ehh.  5% of $5,000 is only $250 not that big of a deal.

JLee2027's picture

If I ripped my customers 5% on a deal, they would be ex-customers.

Your agents are unethical, imo.

Village Idiot's picture

Easy now.  "seller paid" closing costs have been around since the beginning of time.  In most transactions, the seller and buyer agree on price, and then the closing costs are added on top.  The seller still gets their net of fees price and the buyer is able to finance some closing costs.  This tactic has helped facilitate many a sale.  In a lot of cases the seller wouldn't have a buyer without it.  Nothing sinister.

Village Idiot's picture

Just curious - what part of that statement was junk IYO?

DarkAgeAhead's picture

Nothing I can see. Maybe somebody's philosophically opposed to this and they junked the messenger!?

Note: I didn't junk it.  I think it's a good post.

Double note:  I post this at a clear risk of being junked myself.  Bitchez!

Max Hunter's picture

It's not sinister but it adds in allowing people to buy houses that shouldn't be buying houses and therefore raising prices with artificial demand. I paid all my closing costs (more than 5k) and 10% down.. I can't help thinking that if everyone had to do that, (actually 25% down should be law) we would never have had the bubble.

I didn't junk you.. Just had to add my 2 cents that I think there are many flaws in this system and allowing people not to put money down and finance what they should be paying out of pocket keeps more buyers and higher prices.

Commander Cody's picture

Inflating the mortgage to pay for "seller" paid closing costs is fraud.  If it comes out of the sellers pocket, its OK.  Its sad to see that we have learned nothing from the practice of selling homes to people who cannot afford them and who have no skin in the game.  The can walk debt and loss free at any time.  Does that make sense to anyone?

Village Idiot's picture

Not having sufficient capital to close (or not wanting to use capital) has nothing to do with ability to qualify.  In a normal market, down payment is primarily used to meet certain lending guideline thresholds, or affect payment.  And in many cases smaller down payment is preferred (leverage).

Did low/no down payments have an impact on this last go around?  Sure.  Did loose qualifying standards have an impact?  Yes, definitely.  However, down payment has nothing to do with ability to qualify.

Look at the numbers regarding default when there was a 20% + down payment - even on a full doc loan.  The numbers are horrible.  Job losses, wage cuts, value drops - they all fell into the same hole as people who should never have bought a home in the first place. I do understand your frustration, though.

Fred Hayek's picture

I agree that it's not unethical.  (and I didn't junk you) But I paid the damn costs myself when I bought.  As you say, it is helping to facilitate the sale because she's not putting much money down either so she's going to have very little "skin in the game".  I guess I sort of naively thought that that was going to be a thing of the past after the notoriously bad mortgages issued in the making of the bubble.

Village Idiot's picture

I hear you.  Congratulations on getting your property sold.

Hang The Fed's picture

Big plus.  Ripping is still ripping, with no regard for the amount, and I don't give a flying fuck if you're selling hotdogs from a van or building palm-shaped islands in a gulf.  Of course, in the specific context of the article, I think we're all being fleeced of our sanity.  No small wonder that I pass upwards of fifty houses for sale in a given day, and none of them move for months at a clip, save for the shuffle of which agency's sign is out front or when they come on the market, go off for a time, then pop back up again.

Village Idiot's picture

I'm all for putting sanity back in the Real Estate market - pull all life support.  Let price discovery take it's course.  The sooner this happens the sooner the market will recover. Albeit on a slower healthier price trajectory.

Spalding_Smailes's picture

But then the banks go boom.

MBS can't allow the "price discovery".